CIA CAREER COUNCIL 7TH MEETING THURSDAY, 24 FEBRUARY 1955 DCI CONFERENCE ROOM ADMINISTRATION BUILDING

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• Document Creation Date: December 9, 2016
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CIA CAREER COUNCIL
7th Meeting
Thursday, 24 February 1955
DCI Conference Room
Administration Building
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CIA CAREER COUNCIL
7th Meeting
Thursday, 24 February 1955
DCI Conference Room
Administration Building
Present
Harrison G. Reynolds
Director of Personnel
Chairman
25X1A
Director of Training
Member
Chief or Operations, DD/P
Member
Lyman B. Kirkpatrick
Inspector General
Member
Director of Communications
Member
Huntington Sheldon
Acting DD/I
Alternate for DD/I, Member
Lawrence K. White
Deputy Director (Support)
Member
Eiecutive secretary
xeporter
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. ? . The 7th Meeting of the CIA Career Council convened at
4:05 p.m., Thursday, 24 February 1955, in the DCI Conference Room, Admini-
stration Building, with Mr. Harrison G. Reynolds presiding .
MR. REYNOLDS: The Meeting will please Come to order.
I presume that the minutes have been read, and if there are no
comments, changes, errors or omissions, they will stand approved as listed
here.
I want to report on these six items in Item 2 on the agenda.
On the one-step promotion policy, Item 2a: The proposed regulation establish-
ing policy and procedures for designating those positions in which promotion
would normally progress at one-step intervals or at two-step intervals was
processed for normal Agency coordination as directed by the Council. The
comments resulting from this coordination were received in the Office of Person-
nel on 15 February and indicated considerable divergence of views When
these points of view have been resolved, this matter will be submitted for
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recoordination.
In addition to that, I have already shown to the Deputy Director
(Support) a proposal which we should have prepared in final form in another
week or ten days, which may make this promotion policy thing unnecessary to
have to put before the Council again, if it is accepted by the Director. Don't
you think that is a fair statement, Red?
MR. WHITE: I was just going to say, thigh, Harry, on that - I talked
to you, you know, about my Office Heads' allegations, at least, that this one-
step promotion policy had already been implemented.
MR. REYNOLDS: We stopped that.
MR. WHITE: What I wanted to tell you was that last week at the
DD/P Admin Officer Meeting they were sounding off along the same lines, and I
said I had discussed it with you and I thought it was stopped.
MR. REYNOLDS: We had stopped it, and it was only in cases that had
been done in the past, prior to this regulation.
MR. WHITE: They were pleased to know it had been done, but didn't
quite believe it.
MR. REYNOLDS: If it hasn't, I am going to raise hell, because we
gave an order to the people that it be stopped.
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Now, Item 2b, the quarterly reports from the Heads of Career
Services: I have signed off on a memorandum going to the Heads of each
Career Service, which was prepared by
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hich establishes a systilaK1A9a
of quarterly reports from the Heads of Career Services tbthe Director of
Personnel, so that information and data on the overall functioning of the
career system will be available when desired by the Council and the Director.
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The system referred to was approved by the Career Council at a previous meeting.
It is required by You will probably
receive those memorandums very shortly.
This takes the place of the old system which has been
going on for two years, but instead of a monthly report it will be a quarterly
report.
MR. REYNOLDS: I signed off on it today and it's ready to go, and
it should be in your offices in the morning.
On clarification of overtime, Item 2c: Ehe Comptr011er's
Office has prepared a revision of (-the original of..7 which
established the new policy on overtime that was discussed by the Career Council
at its last meeting. This revised Notice is now being coordinated throughout
the Agency. Thej'ersonnel Office has requested that there be incorporated in
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the Notice the statement approved bv the 'Career Council !with respect to the
policy of payment of overtime as opposed to granting compensatory time to
persons in grades GS-11 and above. This-poliCylploWs that in fOrce in the
DD/P area to which the Council agreed at its last meeting.
In addition, the Comptroller's Office has almost completed an
0
analysis of the actual number of persons working overtime and the number of
hours worked for five pay periods prior to 7 November, when the compensatory
leave policy went into effect, and for three pay periods after 7 November.
When completed next week, this will permit an analysis of the actual effect
of the present policy and how it is being interpreted in fact by the several
offices.
?Item 2d: At either the last meeting or the previoUs one,
brought up the question of the distribution of Form 50 notice of
reassignment, promotion, etc. We have two proposals to make, and One can be
ordered tomorrow, if the Council so desires, namely, that the copy which
goes to the employee would be perfectly blank - would have no printing on it.
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The words "Central Intelligence Agency" Come off.
MR. REYNOLDS: It will be simply a flimsy, with the man's name,
code number and reassignment number on it.
4-- The other one, which we prefer, is to request the Management
Staff to make a study as to the advisability of using IBM cards for promotions,
reassignments, etc., in which case the employee wouldn't get anything but it
would be a matter of record.
He would see the card but would return the card.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: What would you put in his Personnel Folder?
MR. REYNOLDS: You can have an imprint of it.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: The thing I think is most important is that we
have one Master Personnel Jacket on everybody, in which everything he does
in the Agency is
recorded and is there permanently.
This IBM card would just be the notification back to
his supervisor of the official action taken.
For the purposes of this meeting why can't We just
reviewed by the Management Staff and subject to a recommend-
the employee and
agree that it be
ation from them as to the advisability of using IBM cards, and in the mean-
time we could adopt the one you propose.
Instead of a copy the employee gets a blank tissue
paper which doesn't identify him as being with CIA. That could be done immed-
iately, and pending a more thorough study.
And the point that Kirk raises would come out in the
Management study.
. . . Mr. Sheldon joined the meeting . .
25X1A9a But in the meantime we will use the blank piece of
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tissue paper instead of the employee copy.
To me the most important place for this in-
formation would be where it is accessible to my Career Service Board. We will
want to keep that in his current file.
All right, he can return it to you.
That would be all right. But if t have to go
over to Personnel and get it out of that file, it takes too long. 1
MR. REYNOLDS: That was not envisaged.
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the agenda.
If that is satisfactory, we will proceed as established by
to
Item 2.!?: The welfare fund. I have here a Notice which has
been seen by the Inspector General in the past but has been delayed due to a
lot of other Regulations going out. It's going to go to the Regulations Con-
trol Staff tomorrow, with further implementing steps, for issuance. This is
"Financial Assistance Available to Employees", etc., that you are familiar
with, Kirk.
: That Notice was seen by the Council, so I don't think
we need go into it. This is the one which the Council wanted to go out. There
were a number of steps which had to be taken in order to make this effective,
before it was issued.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: One new factor in that, which I don't know whether
the Council is aware of or not, but in discussion with who ha5x1A9a
sort of been the outside guardian, and with the General Counsel' :Office, we
decided that the system we have at present for the Welfare Board should be
modified and brought more into line with the Air Force Aid Society, in which
not only will we solicit funds from some of our distinguished and:wealthy
alumni, but, also, internally there has been enough evidence internally that
people would like to contribute to this. The lawyers seem to think if we do
this we can get on a much better tax basis, from the point of view of contri-
butions, and that the new Board of Directors should be composed, in effect, of
the CIA Career Council plus possibly three or four of our alumni who could be
invited to sit in with the Council when we compose ourselves as a Welfare
Board. Now, the nice gimmick about this arrangement is that under this arrange-
ment a majority of the Board can act, so that if Messrs. 25X1A2a
etc., can't get down here we can go ahead and act without them,
and they can simply sit in for annual meetings, etc.
As soon as the lawyers have finished with this, I think, Harry,
that I will ask the Council to meet at least for part of one of its sessions
as the Welfare Board, and we will review a campaign to raise money. There is
one request from Commo which has been in for sometime now, for money, and we
just don't have the money to do it, but we made no effort to get the money
pending investigation as far as tax exemption aspects are concerned. But I
hope this can be straightened out in the next couple of weeks. I think we
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should have a fund with about $10,000 in it.
4 meeting, then,
When the Council meets as the Welfare Board it would be
as a private society and not as a part of CIA, is that right?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Yes.
PX dividends.
The Aid Society got their windfall out of the
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Maybe we can get the same thing out 0 the GSA
funds. We have been through that mill once and came to the conclusion we '
shouldn't use it for this type of thing, but maybe if this develoPs along that
line there may be some potential in the future. Right now it's strictly career
service.
MR. REYNOLDS: This case the other day could have been handled very
easily that way. Incidentally, we have a note, etc.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I think that was fine.
. . Off the record . .
?
MR. REYNOLDS: The last item, Item 2f, is Fitness Repoli studies.
I have here a copy of a report and the original of it went to the Deputy Director
(Support). Would you like to point out the salient things in it ,Red? Be-
cause I think it's a very interesting report. It was written byr 241A9a
after a meeting that was held in Red's Office, which Matt and I attended, and
our agreement which we reached at that meeting, as I recall - and
Matt can
correct me if I am not right, is that we should continue to get these question-
naires and the Fitness Reports until we had a better pattern to gO on. Dr.
has made a study of the questionnaires that have already come back,
and I think his report is very significant.
,MR. WHITE: I'd be glad to. has summed it up pretty ca32,5X1A9a
fully here. The gist of it is, as Barry says, that they don't think we have
had enough experience with it yet to make a proposal to change it. He has sent
out from 1000 to 1500 copies of the questionnaire, and they are coming back in
very slowly. To date he has received 173 back. His conclusions are that there
are questions which will need changing, that there is no overwhelming objection
among supervisors to the report as it stands, and an opinion which I think he
expressed here, that you couldn't develop any question that wouldn't be objected
to by someone.
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I don't think I need to go into the statistics which
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lists here, but he points out that a tentative conclusion from reactions to
the questionnaire is that from 10 to 15 of the 50 items in SectiOn IV will
need deletion or modification. He points out that at least 60% Of the person-
nel returning these questionnaires have had more than 4 years' experience with
the Agency, so you are dealing with people who have some judgment: as to what
we are talking about. He says one of the most controversial items concerning
the Fitness Report is whether or not it should be shown to the individual rated.
Only 23% actually disapprove of the section, concerning showing the report, as
it now stands; 62% believe it should be shown to an unsatisfactory employee;
and 50% believe it should be shown to other than unsatisfactory eMployees. He
also points out that the present Fitness Report was not designed to be appli-
cable to clerical personnel, and it has received some criticism on this account.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: How many Fitness Reports have been filled out?
We couldn't say. We really don't know.
MR. REYNOLDS: About 700, in rourui figures. We sent out 1500.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: How many members of the Career Council have filled
Out the new Fitness Report? Everybody? How many have filled out the question-
naire? That questionnaire is a doozey. It would take an Einstein to decipher
it quickly. It's even more complicated than the Fitness Report, and I didn't
think that was possible.
MR. REYNOLDS: The fact that 173 filled it out, I think is quite
interesting, because it is a complicated thing.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I don't consider myself more stupid than the next
guy, but that threw me on a couple of the questions.
: What was the distribution on the questionnaire?
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Fitness Reports he had to fill out, so he would fill it out as he did it the
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It was supposed to go to each supervisor with the first
first time.
up to me.
I never heard of it.
I'll be glad to send you mine. flaughter2
My supervisors have never brought
the subject
I'll check into this. Maybe that is why they are
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coming in slowly.
it.
I just haven't done it. I haven't been able to get at
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MR. KIRKPATRICK: There are too many choices on that Section IV. I
was interested to note he says there are 12 or 15 that might be eliminated. I
eliminated 35 and left 12 or 15.
MR. WHITE: I thought after our meeting that certainly there was not
such an overwhelming objection to it as it now stands, that we ought to do some-
thing right now - despite some rather vocal complaints in some quarters in my
own shop - and that we should let them go ahead and come up with some recom-
mendations, which probably will be another two or three months.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: After the time and effort this Board Spent on it,
I would think maybe after 5,000 Fitness Reports and maybe 1,000 questionnaires,
then we would have a fairly objective way of going about it.
MR. WHITE: I think it would be well if you would circulate this copy
of memorandum.
>C MR. KIRKPATRICK: I thought this questionnaire
the supervisors in their jmigment of the employees.
Could this copy of
psychologically tested
memorandum go to 464A9a
Heads of all Offices, as well? Or Distribution A?
MR. WHITE: I see no objection. Matt? It's your paper
MR. BAIRD: Well, it was addressed to me to give to you.
MR. WHITE: I think it tells a story here, and will stop some of the
clamor we are getting to change it tomorrow morning.
MR. BAIRD: Actually, I think you should all read it, because it
reads a little better - if you will pardon my saying so (indicating Mr. Whitej -
than the explanation made of it.
So that some of these Fitness RepOrts don't
erroneously damage the individual, should we mark them "Experimental Use Only"?
That would distinguish them from something that comes in later. I have had
1
some come in that might document an individual, and I know it was ignorance on.
the part of the supervisor. Mark it "For Experimental Use" when it goes into
his file. We were going to.have a trial period of a year, weren't we?
: It's supposed to be on a trial basis now. !
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MR. WHITE: It wasn't stipulated how long it was to be on a trial
MR. BAIRD: I had to make out
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so I brought him in and
sat him across from me at my desk and made it out with him. So you can see
I didn't understand the interpretation of it at all
MR. WHITE: Harry, don't you think it's worth mentioning--
MR. REYNOLDS: That part that threw everybody? C"not Observed" and
25X1A "does not apply" - see proposed 17 That
Notice is now ready for Colonel White's signature. It's all set. 1 I have a
copy of it here. Do you want it? I signed off on the buck slip today.
25X1A9a
If we are through with Item 2, let's proceed to Item 3, which
is the Report, with briefs, on applications for Department of Defense Colleges,
dated 15 February 1955, attached, for selection of candidates.
MR.. SHELDON: Harry, may I ask a question before we get into this?
MR. REYNOLDS: Yes, Sir.
MR. SHELDON: When we come to the name of as c omOared with 25X1A2a
the DD/S candidate, are they sufficiently close as to warrant Generall---1 25X1A
making a personal presentation as a former Commandant of the War College, in
behalf of
In other words, if they are very, very close, he has personal-
ly asked me if he could say a word. I don't know if that has been the practice.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Are you asking that we suggest candidates for the
25X1A
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National War College or that try to move
in ahead of
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MR. SHELDON: I am asking, if are very close,
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whether it would be either proper, appropriate, or what have you for General
to make a statement, as a former Commandant.
MR. REYNOLDS: Matt, what would be your reaction on that?
May I suggest, Ting, that under ordinary' circumstances
a 25X1A
it would be acceptable, except that he comes from ONE, which makes
party of interest. Therefore, I don't believe it fair for him to plead a case
in his own office.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Nor do I think it appropriate for the Board to
hear pleas from candidates after a selection has been made.
MR. BAIRD: The selection hasn't been made.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: We have the recommendation by the Panel.
MR. BAIRD: That was a gratuitous recommendation.
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tOtOiciTED
There is one fellow I am going to plump for and that is
He is plump for everything. He is on every damn list.
. . Off the record . .
MR. KIRKPATRICK:
?
could tell the Panel the type of in-
dividual that ought to be selected for the National War College, without any
regard to any particular candidate.
May I ask a question? The candidates for the National War
College are listed 1, 2 and 3 from each major component. Was that the way the
major components listed them in presenting them to the Panel?
MR. BAIRD: Yes, Sir.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Then I think Ting 's suggestion would be even more
out of order, if his own component listed him ahead of
25X1A9a
MR. SHELDON: I asked the question whether the third place was in
close contest or not.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: As I understand the selection - at least, I assume
the Panel had this in mind, that you selected 3 to represent each of the major
components, if of comparable merit.
MR. SHELDON: No, I don't think that was it at all, and that is why
I am raising the point. I don't think it was divided across-the-board.
MR. BAIRD: We used to have a selection screening panel which made
recommendations to this Board, and there was considerable confusion as a result
of a meeting of this Council, which I didn't attend but I looked the minutes
over very carefully We felt that as a result of that, all that we could do
for this particular group here was to screen out undesirables. It says here,
rreadingl "Of the 14 candidates for the National War College, the Panel
deemed these as best qualified in the rank order as indicated." Well, General
thought we ought to do that because the Council would like us to do it.
I disagreed with him. But it is there as a sort of gratuitous, unsolicited
action.
Those five names are not listed with respect to the
three major components at all.
MR. BAIRD: We took a little vote to see how we as a Panel felt. But
I still say it is unsolicited and you shouldn't pay much attention to it.
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MR. KIRKPATRICK: I have one question I would like to 4sk - which
is going to resent - but why did the DD/P nominate only candidates
1
for the National War College? Do you want to be Queen or nothing?
: That is what I tell these fellows - "Why don't you go
to one of the others?" I haven't the faintest idea.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: You have heard me on this subject before, but it
seems to me with all the dealings you have with the Theater Commands that
experience with the Army, Navy or Air War Colleges would be invaluable for your
senior people, so they know which side of the corridor to walk up 1 when they go
to a General's office.
They don't want to move out of Washington.
MR. SHELDON: It's out-of-town duty.
'7( MR. KIRKPATRICK: Wouldn't a youngster like who is still immAga
his early 30's, benefit a great deal by going to one of these colleges? He's
married to the daughter of a retired General.
I think he would.
But he has to rent his house or move out of it.
1
I agree with you, Kirk - I have nothing but, conviction
along that line.
That moving is the primary consideration.! I have talked
to a number of them, and they say their children are in school, etc.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: That doesn't only apply to the DD/P area. They
are not the only ones with children.
MR. REYNOLDS: Well, what is your pleasure, gentlemen?
: I'd like to ask Red a question here. I was', just looking
at background again, since he was named, and I must say that the job
he does, etc., strikes me as being the sort of job that would be directly aided,
abetted and assisted by his going to the National War College.
MR. BAIRD: Ting, you ought to speak to that. All I was going to say
is that name has been put up now every year, and every year the Selection
Panel says he is highly qualified but still a kid. We normally pUt it 35 to 40
as commensurate in age level with the people in the course.
against
-----kt all.
MR. WHITE: I have no way of comparing
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just a name to me, which I have heard for a long time.
is most25X1A9a
enthusiastic about going, and he was the next man on the list to go last year,
I think, but didn't quite make it. He certainly has his heart set on going,
and I'd like to see him go, even though it is going to be difficult for us to
1
spare him. But insofar as being able personally to make a comparison between
, I am not in a position to do it.
MR. BAIRD: Wouldn't it be a sound idea - morale-wise if you have
really top-notch people from all components of the Agency, to pick the top-
notch from each component? There are times when there is grave doubt as to the
top men from each component and you have an exceptionally gOod one - lik
from one component. But there is no doubt that is a top-notch man. 25X1A9a
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I think it would be very, very sound to follow
the consistent practice which we have been following. One year I know you had
two DD/P men, but generally we have tried to take one from each Of the major
components.
MR. SHELDON: I don't think historically that is true. I think
would be the first one from the DD/A complex.
That is right.
MR. SHELDON: And if the Board wants to make that ruli4, I certainly
wouldn't speak against it. Theoretics.11y I think that is the wa* it should be
done.
MR. BAIRD:
top a man -
MR. WHITE:
I would say heretofore I don't believe we have had as
was young last year.
I would agree with that; but, on the other side of the
coin, I think it might be difficult for me, in the DD/S area, to4mt up as
many good candidates, if you want to look at it that way, as you might be able
to put up from the other areas, because of the nature of the business we do.
But in this case both the General Counsel and his Deputy, as youlall know, get
involved in almost every ramification of the business, and I think the Agency
would derive a very good benefit out of his attending the course
MR. BAIRD: For your ears only, the second candidate from the DD/S
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area we didn't feel was comparable -
MR. WHITE: Well, I would vote against
War College.
MR. SHELDON:
Then I withdraw my request for General
gbing to th25x1A9a
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if one from each of the components is the logical way of handlin
Other things being equal.
takes the bow over
does he?
this.
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MR. SHELDON: That was the internal DD/I decision, but there was a
great deal of argument about it,
and I am not going to argue that one again.
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All right -
okay.
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MR. KIRKPATRICK: Well,
is two years older than
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25X1A9a
What caught
my eye here, I thought
- well,
Judas
Just one.
25X1A9a
5X1A9a
Priest, we're just splitting hairs here. But I don't want to go behind the DD/I
decision here, because they know what they have in mind.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Do you think there is any danger of breaking:
spirit if he gets passed over again? After all,
years in which to try.
is 40, and
25X1A9a
haE25[X1A95
Spiritual deflation in the DD/P is something a lot of
them have gotten used to, I think.
MR. BAIRD: We have never had a class yet where the three picked
went.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Then let's take the three that the Panel selects.
MR. WHITE: How about two alternates? One year we had to use two.
MR. BAIRD: One year we used the 6th man on the list.
MR. WHITE: Why don't we accept both
as alternate2s5PA9a
MR. REYNOLDS: Do I hear a motion, then, from the Council, that the
No. 1 man in the three components be selected, with the No. 2 men in the DD/I
25X1A9a and DD/P as alternates?
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
alternate.
is the first alternate and.
Second.
MR. REYNOLDS: Those in favor, signify by saying "
minded? Motion carried.
On the Industrial College of the Armed Forces
selection. Any comments on any of the candidates?
was called from the meeting . .
is the secoiiig1A9a
Contrary
there is one
MR. SHELDON: I have a delicate matter to.bring up at this point.
. . . Off the record .
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College.
rejoined the meeting . ? ?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I move the Council accept
MR. REYNOLDS: It has been moved and seconded that
be accepted for the Industrial College. Those in favor, please Say "aye".
Contrary minded? Motion carried.
for the IndustA41A95
MR. REYNOLDS: No.
Do you have to pick an alternate?
Next is the Army War College, which has a quota of two.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Are you going to plump for
MR. SHELDON: Yes, I will vote for
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
His personal preferetif*1 A9a
was for either of the others, rather than the Army War College. Actually, he
would have preferred to go tothe Air War College. He would also have been
happy to go to the Industrial College. This college actwilly wmild have been
his bottom selection for all the available units. I don't know why your Com-
mittee picked
for this particular college, rather than the other ones.
MR. BAIRD: I don't think we realized the other two were chosen over
the Army War College. We took the Army, Navy and Air, in that order.
MR. SHELDON: And then put the best men in that you could find as
you went along, so that unfortunately he was being penalized for being a good
man and he fell into the category he liked least.
MR. BAIRD: I don't know why we missed that.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Red, do you know
MR. WHITE: Yes.
25X1A9a
is an awfully good, conscientious boy
down at - I believe he's still down there. But there is some question in
my mind about
being the kind of man who is going to contribute a great
deal to the course, and also a question about what he is going to do when he
gets back. I know, for instance, that George Carey has already considered
and declined making him Chief of at one stage 6EX1A6a
the game. He is a very good, conscientious fellow but he has had a limited
formal education and has come up the hard way. What I am saying is in no way
a reflection upon the man because he is a high-type man. I know him and I
25X1A9a
know his wife slightly. But I am not sure, in the case of - you might
have people in the Air War College or the Army War College saying: "Boy! There's
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a top representative from CIA!"
u611.1?4.
I think he has a strike against him, because
if he is asked what he did during the war - he was an Air Force Staff
Sergeant - a Cryptographic Technician.
MR. SHELDON: I can see from what has been said - send
the Army War College, regardless, and then
Otherwise
to 25X1A9a
to the Naval War. College.
25X1A9a
gets into a difficult position, too, you see.
MR. WHITE: There is another thing I think I ought to comment on,
just on one aspect here. Because of the limited nuMber of candidates, I en-
dorsed
request. I think I am quoted there. I wash't trying
to hedge, but I did not want to block his request to go to any of, these
courses, because he has a perfectly good record in the Agency. BUt it is my
honest opinion that Paul is at the peak of his potential right now, and I
would doubt that he could contribute very much. He has been to the Command
and General Staff School, and he served on the General Staff four: years. I
would doubt that he would be a very big ambassador from the Agency in school;
and I don't have in mind, since he is in my area, that he could Make any
greater contribution than he is now making. I think he is about aa high as
he can expect to go, to be perfectly honest about it. You can see he is on
here for all these things, and if the Panel wanted to send him I am not going
to object, but personally I don't see that he is going to gain anything.
MR. BAIRD: Do you mean the Panel or the Council? The Panel felt
they wouldn't recommend! Ifor anything.
MR. WHITE: Well, I think I have expressed myself, and if we have
to dig up a candidate - he is one.
MR. BAIRD: No, I certainly hope you don't do that.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Mr. Chairman, I would recommend, therefore, on
the basis of what has been said, that Mr.
to the Naval liar College, and
and so recommend.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Second.
MR. REYNOLDS: The motion has been made and seconded. Those in
favor, please say "aye". Contrary minded? Motion carried.
What about our quota of two for the Army War College?
go to the Army War College35X1A9a
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MR. BAIRD: May I recommend to the Council that we don't use our
second slot?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I'd rather not send two than send one eight-ball.
What is the deadline, Matt?
MR. BAIRD: Sometime in March.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Dick, would you be willing to take a shot at one
of your Staff meetings to get an Army War College man to fill that second
slot?
25X1A9a MR. BAIRD:
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
one of your men (indicating
behalf of
thought it might be helpful to have
Va graduate of Carlisle.
How fast do I have to have this fellow?
MR. WHITE: What about
War College.
telephOned me on25X1A9a
- to say how good he was. He's on the list forj the National
He's a West Pointer, isn't he?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Yes.
MR. REYNOLDS: How about
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
MR. WHITE:
is a good fellow.
MR. REYNOLDS:
He is absolutely
tops, I hear.
MR. WHITE: I think it would be fine if we could interest one of
these boys that didn't make the National War College in the Army iflar College.
25X1A9a MR. KIRKPATRICK:
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
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would be the better One to interest because
he is getting to the age where he is going to be moving out of the area of
consideration.
Let me check into it.
leave Washington.
It's really a question, perhaps, of which
one would
MR. WH1TL: Inasmuch as we are sort of looking for a candidate here,
I wonder if we could settle it by saying that if we could get ona of these
candidates who applied for the National War College and who didn't make it,
to go, that we would automatically accept him, so that we wouldn't have to
have another meeting.
MR. REYNOLDS: That suits me.
MR. WHITE: Any except I don't believe we ought to send
I don't know the others well enough, but I assume that those in the
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DD/P and the DD/I area are all people that you would like to see go.
is a war planner, isn't he? I mean, that would be right down his alley.
I would have to inquire. I don't know what his dis-
position is.
MR. REYNOLDS: Item 4: Career Development position for
Office of Training, to be detailed to ONE.
Will you please put that up, Rud?
Matt can't spare any from Training
- can you?
MR. BAIRD. This fellow is already in ONE and has been there writing
the Director's speeches, as I understand.
I think I ought to answer Dick's question - somewhat of a
"
needle - that we got a replacement from the DD/I for him, and this is part
of his Career Development plan.
ONE needs him in order to handle this assignment for
a year.
MR. BAIRD: It is good for the man and good for the Agency, and the
slot is available.
MR. REYNOLDS: Do I hear a motion for approval?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: You mean that is the justification that we have
just heard? Record me as "present". flaughterj
MR. REYNOLDS: We will record that as being approved by the Council.
flaughter_7
Item 5 is an exhibit which is a copy of a letter Which is
signed by the Director of Training and myself on the subject: Program for
Career Development of junior Personnel. The only thing we take exception to
is the fact that nobody gave us enough people to work with.
That is a hell of a note, is all I can say.
MR. REYNOLDS: And Matt's assessment team did a perfectly wonderful
job, in my opinion. Those papers are now in the DD/S's office being surveyed
by one of Red's men as to the way we handle it. Personally I think it was
awfully well handled, and the people we selected were the properpeople to
put in the show, and the others - starting with the No. 3 man down through,
they just weren't good enough to go through this thing, and spend the Agency's
money and time and slotting of them in positions, to do it. It Was just
a lack of quality in the people, in my opinion.
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MR. KIRKPATRICK: How were the 15 candidates divided?
MR. REYNOLDS: None from the DD/P. Most of them were from the
There must be a pipeline as long as the Big Inch
from here to Texas, because when this program was first announced we got
calls from 121 people from OCI alone, who wanted to apply, but we haven't
gotten any applications yet. I don't know where they are.
MR. REYNOLDS:
MR. BAIRD:
The No.
1 man was from OCD.
FOIAb3b1
25X1A9a
MR. REYNOLDS: A boy named
fr, and Matt and I i4terviewed
him and he was a very, very able
fellow. And the other man was grom OGD.
25X1A9a
There was some confusion about this. I was talking to
25X1A6a
a young man
a bright fellow - and he said: been
in
- a hell of
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
debating whether to join that JOT program." I said, "How many years have
you been in the Agency?" And he said, "Three years" - I guess, and then
finally it dawned on me what he was getting at. He seemed to be la hell of
a good candidate for it, so I encouraged him to send in his application.
Some might have misunderstood it, etc.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Isn't this a case where the components should
1
choose them and then tell the individuals they have been chosen, and then
allow them to say "aye" or "nay"? Couldn't somebody from the major components
sit down and
time, but
come up with 50 potential candidates?
I have forgotten what all of the arguments were at the
we agreed to do it this other way.
It was agreed that we wouldn't have a quota system.
MR. WHITE: And we wouldn't block anybody.
25X1A9a The only people who have talked to me about
it are people who have itchy feet. All the rest of the people are specialists
that I couldn't let go, and I don't think they would be interested.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: And I think the ones that don't have itchy feet
like the seat they are sitting in and feel if they move out theyi might not
get back into it.
MR. BAIRD: We got word that one supervisor said: Nell, you damn
well better be selected, because if you aren't selected don't expect to
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get anywhere in this outfit."
We have to do something to get this air-borne. I
thought it was going to take off like a jet plane.
MR. WHITE: I was a little disappointed, as I told Matt and Harry -
and I may be completely wrong on this, but we had 11 candidates and I am
looking at it not from the standpoint of criticizing the people who did the
selecting, but I did sort of have the feeling that if the 3rd and 4th men
were say not too far down the ladder, that we might have stretched the point
to get a few
more people started and to get the thing air-borne. !
Could you ask one of your officers who works on this
type of thing [indicating Mr. Reynoldsj to visit around down 14 the DD/P
and talk to the Division and Staff Chiefs, and explain what this is about,
and do a little personal salesmanship on this?
-4? MR. REYNOLDS: The fellow to do it is He is exacaoi 1A2a
the man to do it.
Turn hit loose with a basket under his arm:and a
little bell.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: And I think
as to how to get this air-borne and then
because I would say that if this fails a
Service will go floating down the river.
MR. REYNOLDS: I'll put
ought to make suggestions 25X1A9a
!
present us with a Staff Study on it,
great big chunk of our Career
I would appreciate it very much.
MR. BAIRD: Dick, you can also say that if the career plans that
Harry and I approved go through, that as long as the DD/P doesn't put up
any candidates and the candidates come from the DD/S and the DD/I, that
the DD/P is the gainer.
That is unfair, too.
MR. BAIRD: Because these two we picked are going to be put in
the DD/P and be productive in the DD/P for two years.
What is fair for one is fair for all. I didn't
realize we hadn't come up with any.
!
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Are you sure that Messrs. Baird and Reynolds
weren't a little tough in their selections?
MR. BAIRD: Before Harry and I saw them they went through two
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processes. They were interviewed by a working group in the Office of Train-
ing and the Office of Personnel. Then they were assessed on the criteria
that you helped devise - 8 of the 15 were assessed. They were the top 8.
Barry and I interviewed 4. The working group or panel that interviewed them -
other than the 4 that we interviewed - cane to the same conclusiOns as the
psychologists in their assessment procedures, that they didn't measure up;
and when Harry and I interviewed the 3rd and 4th - they just weren't of the
caliber this program is designed to cover, which is young men with executive
potential.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Then on the basis of this percentage we have to
get 300 candidates to come up with the 45.
MR. REYNOLDS: We thought we were going to have more than. that.
We have 26 slots, actually, for this, and Red has allowed us to Use them as
they come along, so there was no burden. They are transferred to the Office
of Personnel, and we can handle 28 of them very easily. We handle 7 a quarter,
and have a continual rotating group. But I could honestly stand up before any
group of people and justify Matt's and my selection of those 2 men, and our
rejection of 3 and 4. There was such a marked difference between 1 and 2, and
3 and 4 - and 3 and 4 were obviously the best of the 13 that were left over,
on the record.
found in Europe a tremendous interest On the part
of younger people to get into it, and I said, "You will just have to wait
until you get back at the end of your normal tour." And it is m5i. belief
that a lot of young people were looking forward to this very much, but I
don't know what has happened. Something has happened (to slow the progress
dowd.7.
MR. WHITE: For instance, now, like in this position you (indi-
cating Mr. Baird.7 just arranged for
And I have two people I thin25X1A9a
would have been excellent for this program, except they are already in a
rotation loan slot - etc., my candidates for this
sort of thing. They were the type of people you are looking for - but I am
looking after them in another way. So I don't know whether we are in compe-
tition with ourselves.
Isn't that true, Matt?
Those two programs are, to an extent, in competition.
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MR. WHITE (Continuing): Of course, the difference is that
they are definitely in a career plan where they are going to come back to
me, whereas in this there is no assurance at all.
MR. BAIRD: Could the Career Council ask the Office Heads to re-
view their office procedures in this Junior Career Development Plan to
ascertain whether it has been taken advantage of?
That is my point. We need a little buckstership here.
MR. REYNOLDS: I think that is true, because I honestly think if
we are going to build up a junior Executive Inventory - this is the basis
for it.
I understand these careers you are planning -
you are now in the process of planning careers for these two people you
selected? And that will give you a better idea about the future?
MR. REYNOLDS: We will send a memorandum to the Heads Of all
Offices, and give you samples.
MR. BAIRD: I think it is perhaps a mistake to try to gen too
far ahead until you see how they do.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Let's put off these other items on the agenda
until next week.
MR. REYNOLDS:
I suggest that we adjourn, and we will have another
meeting, say a week from today?
Could we take this one - Item 6?
MR. REYNOLDS: Can we approve Item 6?
K MR. KIRKPATRICK: No, Sir. I don't like
t. After 11 years I
don't want to get a Wheatie box top for joining the Career Service.
. . . The meeting adjourned at 5:05 p.m. . ? ?
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