DISCUSSION WITH DR. DONALD SCHUECK, DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH, STANDFORD RESEARCH INSTITUTE (SRI)

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP76B00734R000200030009-7
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 20, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 21, 2002
• Sequence Number: 9
• Content Type: MFR

Approved For Release 2007/07/25: CIA-RDP76B00734R000200030009-7
12 February 1973
SUBJECT: Discussion with.Dr. Donald Schueck, Director
of Research, Stanford Research Institute (SRI)
REFERENCE: LSD File, SRI
1. The undersigned met from 1400 to. 1630 on Saturday,
10 February, with Dr. Donald Schueck. Dr. Schueck called and
requested the meeting late Friday afternoon. He is Vice-
President of Stanford Research Institute and also is the
Director of Research. Corporate offices are in Menlo Park,
California, but Dr. Schueck and Charles Anderson (President,
SRI) were planning to be in the Washington area over the
weekend. I met with Dr. Schueck at
2. Dr. Schueck wanted to discuss the research currently
being conducted at SRI in the investigations of pars-normal
phenomena. He was well aware of the fact that I have no
contracting, U.S. research, or official Agency input to SRI.
Nevertheless I firmly reestablished those points at the
beginning of our discussion. Dr. Schueck is aware of the
fact that my concern is the validation of purported Soviet
research in this area, and the assessment of an existing
threat, if any.
3. Dr. Schueck struck me as being a very conservative,
calm, and highly disciplined individual. Despite the highly
emotionally charged subject, Dr. Schueck related what I will
outline below in a business-like manner.
4. Dr. Schueck indicated that the comments he wished
to make to me were the result of extensive discussions between
himself and the President of SRI and that I could consider
them official.
a. SRI considers their involvement in this area of
research to be extremely sensitive, potentially
embarrassing, and potentially damaging to the company.
I3D/S&T
FILE COPY
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SUBJECT: Discussion with Dr. Donald Schueck
A press release acknowledging limited association of
SRI scientists with para-normal research has been pre-
pared and approved by the Board of Directors. They
fervently hope that the press release will never have
to be issued.
b. The decision of whether or not to continue in
this research remains open at this time for the above
reasons. The President of SRI and Dr. Schueck would
like to continue if public visibility can be kept very
low.
c. Because of the unprecedented results that have
been obtained at SRI with two "sensitives" (including
the Israeli, Uri Geller), the senior management, in-
cluding the President and Vice-President of SRI, have
become personally involved in the laboratory data
collection. Further, Dr. Schueck personally conducted
many experiments alone with Mr. Geller to eliminate the
possibility of fraud on the part of SRI scientists.
Also, Dr. Schueck personally determined the method of
data acquisition, security of storage, and analysis
(observed in the film, "Experiments with Uri Geller").
I feel it appropriate to note parenthetically that Dr.
Schueck represents the fourth management level above
the senior scientists directly involved with the research,
which supports his claim to me of the importance that SRI
assigns to this project.
d. Dr. Schueck certified to me that the data we have
observed and heard about are legitimate and cannot be
explained on the basis of fraud. He does not rule out
the possibility that some other kinds of experiments that
have been done with Geller elsewhere could not be repro-
duced by trickery, but that the controls on the experiments
done at SRI and the data reported are honest.
5. Dr. Schueck explained how SRI became involved with
Geller, but his comments were completely consistent with prior
memos I have written on the basis of information from other
sources. He described the experiments that he has personally
conducted with Geller. I extracted from him the minute details
of how he conducted the experiments, which were telepathic in
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SUBJECT: Discussion with Dr. Donald Schueck
nature. If Dr. Schueck was telling me the truth as I believe
he was, then I assert that the experiments done with Dr. Schueck
are valid. Dr. Schueck did not appear to be the kind of person
who could be subject to hallucination or deep hypnosis quickly
and without extensive prior preparation as would otherwise have
been the case in the experiments he conducted with Geller
personally. I doubt that anyone is, but assert that if this
be the case, the importance of the Agency's learning how this
is done is even greater than the investigation of para-normal
phenomena itself.
6. Dr. Schueck and I spent considerable time discussing
how, in principle, the data as we have seen it summarized in
the film could have been fraudulently obtained. We agreed
that some of the experiments (magnetometer, location of
objects) could be reproduced if,
a. An RF field is beamed inside the building from
outside, presumedly a van, and/or
b. Geller has a miniaturized receiver implanted
in his mastoid sinuses.
We agreed that even given these two points, we could still
not reproduce the data, but agreed that in principle it
could be done. The telepathy experiments could be repro-
duced if the building had been entered at night, the vaults
opened, and the data manipulated prior to the test the
following morning. Dr. Schueck categorically denied that
this could have even been done in principle given the security
procedures that were instituted for these experiments. Some
of the experiments (but not many) could have been fraud if
Zev Pressman (the SRI photographer) were operating in league
with Geller. Dr. Schueck does not believe this to be a
reasonable hypothesis since Pressman has been with SRI for
over ten years, but he agreed with me that further experiments
should always include the absence of Pressman from the room
during any double-blind experiments.
7. Dr. Schueck did not even remotely suggest that I
should in any way attempt to influence a decision for letting
a follow-on contract with SRI. To the contrary, he said that
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the President of the company and he would like an excuse not
to do the research, but that it may be the most important
thing that they are now doing. He also feels that SRI is
the only laboratory in the United States now approaching
this subject in a highly controlled and multi-disciplinary
way. I did not respond to him about the latter comment
but he is totally correct.
Chief, Biomedical Sciences Branch
Distribution:
Orig - Record
1 - LSD chron
2 - BSB
OSI/LSD/BSBA
(12Feb73)
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