STENOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 190
• Document Creation Date: December 19, 2016
• Document Release Date: August 30, 2005
• Sequence Number: 11
• Publication Date: January 29, 1970
• Content Type: TRANS

Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R0004OO0IOO11-1;;
Stenographic Transcript Of
HEARINGS
Before The
.3UBCOM MIT EE ON EDz3C2 TIG:q
COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE
UNITED STATES SENATE
Washington, D. C.
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc.
O ;,ieia z ca
300 Seventh St., S. W. Washington, D. C.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
TABLE OF CONTENTS
United States Senate, Washington, D. C.
25
Subcommittee on Education of the
Committee on Labor and Public
Welfare,
January 29, 1970
' oward Mace, Deputy Director General , For-
eigh Service (accompnaied by: Joseph Toner,
and Dr. George Hilderbran
Dr,. George Grassmuck, Special Assistant to
the Secretar- for International ';ffairs1 "~;YIAT 48
Francis 'ilcox, Dean, Johns Hopkins School
of Advanced International Studies 64
'Professor Raymond Tanter, Department of
Political Science, University of Michigan.,
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Mrs. Mary Condon Gereau., Legislative Con-
sultant, NEA, on behalf of Dr. John M.
Lumley, NEA
Dr. Samson B. Knoll, Dean of Faculty, The
Monterey Institution of Foreign Studies,
Monterey, California
Parker Hart, President, Middle East Insti-
tute? Wash, D. C. (Former Director, Foreign
Service Institute
Hon. George Allen, President, Diplomatic
and Consular Officers, Inc., Wash, D. C.,
Ghosn J. Zogby,, Vice President, Foreign
Service Research, Inc.,, Wash., D., C. 149
Dr. Vincent Davis, Princeton Center for
International Studies, Princeton, N,) J. 156
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Milton/jh 1
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
S. 939
THURSDAY, JANUARY 29, 1970
United States Senate,
Subcommittee on Education of the
Committee on Labor and Public
Welfare,
Washington, D. C.
The subcommittee met at 10 a.m., pursuant?to call, in room
4232, New Senate Office Building, Senator Claiborne Pell
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Senators Pell, Javits and Dominick.
Senator Pell. The Subcommittee on Education will come to
order.
Today, we will hear witnesses discussing their views on
S. 939, a bill to amend the higher Education Act of 1965, in ord
order to provide for United States Foreign Service Corps,
introduced by Senator Peter Dominick of Colorado.
Do to our extensive witness list I will not go into the
detail of the bill at this time but look forward to hearing
witnesses, not only as the Chairman of the subcommittee, but
also as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and I have
a completely open mind with regard to it.
Senator Dominick. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I could read a
brief statement?
Senator Pell.. Certainly.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. Mr. Chairman, as we begin hearings this
morning on my bill, S. 939, which is a scholarship program,
called the Foreign Service Corps, it seems proper that I make a
few opening remarks.
First of all, I would like to say I am delighted to have
the bill. come before the Education Subcommittee at a time when
it is chaired by Senator Pell. With your background as a State
Department and Foreign Service Officer fo:z seven years, your
very able assistance during consideration of the merits of the
proposal will be of benefit to us all.
I don't think it is necessary for me to go into detail con-
cerning the provisions of the bill. I will ask, however, that
the text of the bill and a section-by-section analysis be
printed in the hearing record.
Senator Pell. Without objection.
(The document to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. The bill provides as you know, a
sizeable scholarship program. Full educational aid -- tuitition
fees, room and board -- would be available for students
interested in working for the Government in a civilian capacity.
The positions for which they would be educated would be those
which either require actual residence in a foreign country, or
those where the point of residence would remain within the
United States but the position requires regular contact with
citizens of other countries. Some scholarships would be for
undergraduate schooling; others for graduate schooling.
Many Government agencies already have job slots which fit
this description. Just as important as t:ie new input we would
receive in these agencies from the graduating students, are
those people already employed by the Federal Government in
these positions. They, too, would be eligible for scholarships
to further their education on a continuing basis.
What is the extent of need for better education in this
First, let me emphasize this is not a program to train or
to replace Foreign Service Officers. As of November 30, 1969,
there were only 3,278 active members in that select group known
as Foreign Service Officers.
In retrospect, the choice of the term "Foreign Service" to
be placed with the term "Corps" has proven unfortunate and
misleading. While Foreign Service Officers would be eligible
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP7,,2-00337R000500010011-1
for scholarships, they comprise only a tiny fraction of the
civilian employees the bill is designed to assist.
Aside from employees resident within the United States
who would be eligible, almost every Federal department and
agency has U.S. citizens employed in foreign countries. Reliabl
data on how many there are, in what country they are located,
and particularly what they are doing and their educational
background is difficult to obtain.
Nevertheless, rarely have I been as disappointed with a
report filed with a Senate committee as I am with the one filed
by the General Accounting Office, dated April 1, 1969, commentin
on my bill. With all due respect to GAO, the report glosses
over the problem and is rather typical of the lack of interest
and lack of awareness with these issues that I have found in
the various Government departments and agencies.
Let me give you an example. The GAO report on S. 939
states:
In April, 1968, it was announced that there were 22,757
United States citizens employed overseas, and that this would
be reduced by 2,779 with similar reductions in foreign, national
and contract employment. Special efforts are being made to
provide jobs for these people in the continental United States
and, as a result, there may be some question as to the need for
substantial recruitment at this time.
Contrast the GAO information, if you will, with that I
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 12
Approved For Release 2005/11/21: CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
obtained from the Manpower Statistics Division of-the Civil
Service Commission. As of June 30, 1968 -- just 60 days after
GAO asserts there were 22,757 U.S. citizens employed overseas
and the number was declining -- citizens on the payroll as
civilians overseas totaled 58,841. Of that amount, 38,029 were
in foreign countries and 20,812 were in U.S. territories, over
twice what the GAO said there were.
The latest information available from the Civil Service
Commission is for the month of December, 1969. It shows a
total of 63,594 United States citizens on the Federal payroll
overseas. Of that amount, 42,332 are in foreign countries and
21,262 in U.S. territories.
I mentioned that many Government agencies have employees
involved in areas which will be assisted by the scholarships.
At the conclusion of my remarks, I will offer several tables
for the hearing record with details. I will mention only a few
of them at this point.
Setting aside for the moment the obvious examples of the
State Department, USIA and civilian employees of the Defense
Department, and limiting the numbers strictly to those residing
in foreign countries, the number of Federal civilian employees
serving overseas as of last December in some of the agencies
is as follows:
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
12
Foreign Countries
Agency
Total
U.S. Citizens
Non-Citizens
Agriculture
685
333
352
Interior
419
403
16
Transportation
328
298
30
Commerce
286
160
1246
Justice
199
173
There are only six different agencies who have over 2500
people serving overseas of which at least over half consist of
U.S. citizens.
Let me stress that these figures only include those actuall!
residing overseas. Hopefully, we will get something of the
people who live over here but are in contact overseas all the
time.
As Senator Pell so ably stated during the 1963 hearings
of the Foreign Relations Committee on alternative bills to
establish a Government-owned academy, those have been put in by
both Democrats and Republicans, including myself:
We need to do more in this field ?--- of that there is.
general agreement. The question is how to do it.
The bill before us today is not a fo-_-eign service academy
bill. They were first introduced in Conga?ess in 1943 but no
progress has been made in 27 years so it t3eemed to me that some
new direction was needed.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
So we went this scholarship route. There are 77 institu-
tions in 31 States, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico.
This, I think, puts in some needed f_lexib-Uity.
Quite frankly, I find myself again in agreement with
Senator Pell when he observed at the 1963 hearings:
I believe we can do the job of better preparing those who
represent us abroad by better utilizing existing facilities in
our great universities and by better utilizing and expanding the
facilities of the Foreign Service Institute.... We should increase
the number of our Government people attending the Institute,
as well as sending our foreign affairs people to our universitie
?4y bill continues the Foreign Service Institute, and by
bringing it into the scope of the Higher Education Act offers
the opportunity to greatly strengthen it.
Let me list briefly the chief characteristics and advantaged
I see in this new approach.
First. It utilizes, rather than competes with, the
facilities and academic expertise of educational institution,
public and private, while preserving their control and
objectiveness.
Second. It offers varied but carefully coordinated under-
graduate and graduate programs including field training for
student scholarship recipients as well as inservice training
and research.
Third. It harnesses a continual and prepared reservoir of
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
representative talent from diverse sectors of American life
with a variety of educational backgrounds from many colleges
and universities.
Fourth. It provides access to the full breadth of
disciplines taught by the top minds of the country.
Fifth. It maintains the desirable flexibility and
independence to maximize opportunities for charting new courses
and altering old ones in foreign affairs education and
practice.
Sixth. It concentrates our investment in people instead
of property, avoiding large capital outlays for buildings,
grounds and equipment.
The bill refers to not more than 3,500 undergraduate
scholarships, and not more than 1,500 graduate scholarships.
In other words, these are ceiling figures. The Board of `.
Trustees is required to consult with the various Government
departments as to their personnel needs in making projections
of requirements for future employees, and determining whether
100 or 1,000 scholarships are to be awarded.
The scholarships are not intended to be limited solely to
those who are residing or will be residing overseas. Nor are
they intended to be limited solely to those directly involved
in making foreign policy.
There are many employees residing in the United States who
assist in the management of our international affairs programs
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
and have contact with citizens of other countries.
There are many employees abroad. Some are technicians.
Some are in communications. There are a variety of other
occupations. Certainly I am trying to reach these people with
the scholarship program as well as those who may be directly
involved in making foreign policy-
I must comment for the record that some of the agencies
I have been in touch with concerning these hearings have left
me with a feeling of amazement. Some seemed surprised at the
number of employees they had overseas. Others expressed the
feeling that since they only had a few hundred employees in
this capacity, the bill would be of little importance to them.
I could not disagree more.
It may be helpful to put in perspective the economics and
efficiency I foresee with the Corps Program. As a point of
comparison, let us consider the costs involved at the military
academies. The Special Subcommittee on Service.Academies of
the House Armed Services Committee held hearings on this subject
in the 90th Congress. The cost of commissioning each student
at the Naval Academy in FY 1967 was $40,200, at the Military
Academy, $48,697 and at the Air Force Academy, $50,933.
On the other hand, the ROTC Program -- which uses a system
of scholarships similar to that in my bill -- costs the American
taxpayer about $7,500 per student up to the date of his
commission.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Mr. Chairman, there is one other observation I would like
to make for the hearing record. it involves the State Depart-
ment.
Since these hearings were announced, I am advised State
Department representatives have put a great deal of pressure
on other departments and agencies --- which . will not identify -
either urging them not to appear to testify on the bill or to
defer judgment solely to the State Department.
I must say I am a little perturbed even though I have
always held the view that the State Department feels it is the
sole fountain of knowledge when it comes to contact with
citizens of other countries.
A second item, however, causes me greater concern. After
obtaining the tentative witness list for these hearings by a
telephone call to my office, an employee of the State Department
was in touch with one of those listed. Again, I do not want
to identify names. The record I think will show this pretty
conclusively.
I will let those who read the record be their own judge.
Mr. Chairman, just a brief word for thc, hearing record
concerning the parliamentary situation on the bill. It was
reported favorably by the Senate Education Subcommittee and the
Senate Labor and Public Welfare Committee in July, 1968, along
with other new titles to the Higher Education Act. I think it
was the Vocational Education Act.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 10
23
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
When the bill reached the floor that-year, committee
jurisdiction was contested by the Foreign Relations Committee.
With assurances for public hearings on the bill, I reluctantly
moved to strike it on the floor of the Senate in duly, 1968.
I have agreed that following completion of consideration
of this measure by the Senate Labor and Public Welfare
Committee, I will ask that it be referred to the Foreign
Relations Committee under a mutually satisfactory arrangement
to be made at that time. I have discussed this with various
people on the Foreign Relations Committee.
However, I continue to feel this scholarship program was
just as properly referred to our committee as was the Inter-
national Education Act of 1966.
To conclude, Mr. Chairman, we do not yet have a coordinated
and efficient system for training personnel from all agencies
who work with citizens of other countries. The independent
efforts of the many departments and agencies cannot meet the
challenge.
No other events in our lifetime will serve so well to mark
the smallness of the earth as will the achievements of Apollo
VIII, Apollo XI, and Apollo XII. The need for men to live
together in peace and understanding has been awakened in America
and around the globe.
The United States needs to listen as well as to act and
employees of our Government `who have contact with citizens of
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
other countries need the finest possible training to insure
our ability to listen and understand, and to insure our
capacity to persuade others of our search for peace.
In closing, let me read for the record the words of
Astronaut Frank Borman, written after his return from the moon:
"The view of the earth from the moon fascinated me -- a
small disk, 240,000 miles away. It was hard to think that that
little thing held so many problems, so many frustrations.
Raging nationalistic interests, famines, wars, pestilence don't
show from that distance.
I am convinced that some wayward stranger in a spacecraft,
coming from some other part of the heavens, could look at
earth and never know that it was inhabited at all. But the same
wayward stranger would certainly know instinctively that if the
earth were inhabited, then the destinies of all who lived on it
must inevitably be interwoven and joined. We are one hunk of
ground, water, air, clouds, floating around in space. From
out there it really is one world."
Mr. Chairman, I have received and am expecting some
letters of comment on the bill and I would like to have the
Subcommittee's permission to submit those for the hearing record.
Finally, I would like to request that the following tables
be printed in the hearing record at this point.
With American leadership and overseao concern, with our
role as the leader of the free world, with our continued
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
involvement with nations in all areas of the world, it seems to
me that the people who are working for our Government overseas
and in contact with other people should have the best training
that we can provide for them. This, aftar all, may be the first
step in trying to understand what this country is about and
what it is trying to do.
I sincerely appreciate your willingness to let me make this
statement. I would like to request that certain tables be
printed in the hearing record at this point.
Senator Pell. They will be printed in the hearing record
and in addition to that, I wonder if the staff could out in the
cost for the Coast Guard Academy and the Merchant Marine
Academy.
(The documents to be furnished follow:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
ss
Senator Pell. I congratulate the Senator from Co]
on all the work he has put ::onto this and the knowledge he has
and the comprehensiveness of the grasp of the problem and as
was said earlier, my mind is completely open on it.
I am delighted to be able to afford his bill and him the
courtesy of these harings. No man has pursued a thing in which
he believes more than Senator Dominick has. I know how very
much indeed strongly he believes in this program idea.
The first witness is !4r. Mace of the Department of State.
STATEMENT OF HOWARD MACE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR GENERAL,
FOREIGN SERVICE (ACCOMPANIED BY: JOSEPH TONER,
DIRECTOR OF PERSONNEL AND MANPOWER, A.I.D., AND DR.
GEORGE HILDEBRAND, DEPUTY UNDERSECRETARY FOR INTER-
NATIONAL AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR.)
Mr. Mace. I don't have any prepared statement, Mr.
Chairman. I will, if you wish, read the letter which the
Department sent to the Chairman and the corraiittee yesterday,
if I may.
Senator Pell. How long is that?
Mr. Mace. It is a little over two pages.
Senator Pell. We will put the letter in the record at
this point.
(The letter to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Peil. T would like to put to you the direct
question: first, if you can speak for the Administration, does
the Administration favor or oppose this bill?
Mr. Mace. The Administration, as I understand it, sir,
opposes the enactment of the bill in the Sense that it doesn't
feel that the legislation is necessary to supply the personnel
that are needed for the Department of State and the othe'r
agencies.
Senator Pell. Have you consulted with the Bureau of the
Budget?
Mr. Mace. Yes.
Senator Pell. Do they share your views?
Mr. Mace. Yes.
Senator Pell. Do you speak for the Administration or for
the Department of State?
Mr. Mace. I speak for the Department of State, but the
comments in our letter do reflect the position. of the
Administration.
Senator Pell. I know Senator Dominick will want to questior
you in a little bit in this regard. Would you give us a brief
outline for your reasons for objections?
Mr. Mace. First of all, we don't believe that it is
necessary to have an additional authority to obtain qualified
younger officers for the Foreign Affairs community in that we
find that there are ample applicants among the university
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
graduates, including graduate students, to compete for the
present competitive examinations for appointment.
Another point is that we feel that the legislation with
respect to the status of the Foreign Service institute mala
present us with problems in terms of the Secretary of State's
responsibilities under the Foreign Service Act to direct the
activities of the Foreign Service institute, which as we
understand, the bill as it as written, would provide that the
Foreign Service Institute be transferred to the jurisdiction
of the board of trustees that is established by the legislation.
Those are the two basic points that our letter makes.
Senator Pell. As you know, I was once upon a time a
young Foreign Service officer, and I have interest in this.
I followed the trials and tribulations of the Service.
You may proceed, Mr. Toner.
Mr. Toner. Mr. Chairman, I am Joseph Toner, Director of
Personnel and Manpower of A.I.D.
I am pleased to appear before you today to testify on
S. 939, a bill to amend the Higher Education Act of 1965 in
order to provide for a United States Foreign Service Corps."
The Agency for International Development recognizes the
need for greater awareness on the part of Americans of the
cultures, economic needs, political conditions, and aspirations
of the people of other countries, particularly in those
icountries less developed economically than the United States.
I
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
11
 20
/1' 22
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
17
The proposed bill would provide more of this. awareness.
There.is some question as to the usefulness to A.I.D. 'of
an education program such as proposed in S. 939. The AGency
is now undergoing some major organizational changes due to:the
creation of two Government corporations which will assume`parts
of the A.I.D. program. Still further %hanges can be anticipated
as a result of the study being made by the Presidential Task
Force on International Development Cooperation headed by
Rudolph A. Peterson.
In view of these changes we can only discuss the bill in
light of past programs and operations.
A.I.D. is now providing Government-to-Government assistance
to approximately 40 of the less developed countries. In carrying
out the program we employ Foreign Service Reserve officers in
20 technical fields of activity, exclusive of the general.
administration and management area.
These employees work directly with the cooperating
countries' ministries, which normally assign their best
technicians to work as counterparts with A.I.D. employees.
A.I.D. has been required under this arrangement to provide
highly skilled professionals in the various technical f41 d1 -, ir
`which we provide assistance.
Our need for young college graduates is, therefore,
extremely limited. Each year we bring in approximately 50
interns to train for programming, loan management, and general
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
administration. Even this limited number is difficult to place
as many of our mission staffs are small and trainees can be
placed only in the larger missions which have senior. staff
members to suppo.:t them.
It has been the experience of the Agency that the training
needs of the overseas employee are much greater than for persons
employed in the United States because he does not have the
advantage of frequent communication with others in his pro-
fession.
To meet this need, the Congress amended the Foreign
.Assistance Act in 1957 to permit similar training to that
proposed in Sec. 1207,of the proposed bill. This provision
also includes authority for a personnel interchange with State
and local governments, public or private non-profit institutions
commercial firms, and trade and scientific associations.
Under this authority A.I.D. is currently using non-
Government facilities for refresher training, long term non
degree training, special institutes for mid-career employees,
population seminars, and some language training. The costs
per trainee vary from program to program.
For example, our Mid-Career Institute conducted by
Syracuse University averages $1,270 per trainee for a four
week course; population seminars average $365 per trainee;
long term academic training averages $2,800 for a nine month
period and language training averages $1,200 for eight weeks.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
The Agency's in-house training programs include the
International Development Intern Program, orientation to A.I.D.,
program management, management improvement, clerical and
communication training. The average cost per trainee for the
in-house training runs from $56 for clerical and communications
training per week to $145 for the management improvement
program per week.
In addition, A.I.D. utilizes FSI for language training,
area studies, the senior seminar, economic studies and the
special Vietnam training program.
The Agency also provides training for its local personnel
who provide most of the clerical and sub-professional support
required by the missions. Much of this training is carried
out on the job by the mission staff at no extra cost to the
Government. American secretaries do an excellent job of
assisting the local personnel in modern office techniques.
The Agency conducts a variety of workshops for local
personnel in such fields as supply management,and training.
This training is conducted in the United States and in the.
missions by A.I.D./W and mission personnel. knowledgeable of
the Agency's and country's problems and policies.
A.I.D. Foreign Service employees are recruited from all
over the United States. During the recent drive to staff the
mission in Vietnam, the Agency sent recruitment representatives
to every State in the continental United States. Our records
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1 20
show that the Foreign Service Reserve employees alone hold
graduate and undergraduate degrees from more than 600 colleges
and universities.
A.I.D. also uses personnel of other Government agencies in
the implementation of its programs abroad. The Departments of
Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Health, Education and Welfare,
Treasury, Interior and many independent agencies carry out
numerous types of projects for the agency.
Unfortunately, we do not have comparable data available
on these personnel. They do, however, provide technical skills
and backstopping which are not available on the A.I.D. direct
hire staff.
In summary, we think that A.I.D. has, throughout its
history, included in its Foreign Service a broad representation
of the U.S. population, technical skills and educational
facilities. Our present legislation provides us with the
authority we need to train and up-date the skills of our own
personnel as well as the personnel of the other agencies of
the Government who participate in our program.
We believe that the full utilization of our present
legislative authority would permit us to meet the needs of the
Agency as we see them at this time without recourse to
additional legislation.
Thank you, sir.
Senator Pell. Dr. Hildebrand, you may proceed.
1 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Dr. Hildebrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am George Hildebrand, Deputy Undersecretary of Labor
for International Affairs. I also sit on the Board of Foreign
Service representing the Department of Labor.
With your permission, rather than read my statement,
can simply summarize it, the reason being that it deals with
the relatively narrow involvement of the Department of Labor
in the Foreign Service.
Senator Pell. The statement will appear in the record as
if read.
(The statement referred to follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 19
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Dr. Hildebrand. The Department of Labor is involved in
the Foreign Service essentially in three ways.
One is that I sit on the Board of Foreign Service. Another
is that we supply experts who sit on the Board of Examiners,
and third, we have co-responsibilities with the Department of
State having to do with the labor attache program as part of
the Foreign Service. It is to that programs I would like to
direct my principal remarks.
There are less than 100 attaches or labor reporting
officers today. This means that it is not a large component
of the Foreign Service, as such. However, it is an important
component in terms of the service involved, because of the fact
that these attaches are responsible for reporting on labor and
manpower problems and developments within the countries and
regions to which they are assigned and for that reason require
considerable expertise and supply information to this country
that is of importance to our Government.
These labor attaches are somewhat an unusual group in that
they don't necessarily represent university trained people in
all instances.
In the early days of the Corps, a number of them were
recruited directly from the trained union movement in the
United States, but that has ceased to be possible because of
the contraction in the total size of this group, and therefore,
the inability to bring in fresh people at this time because the
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1 23
budget and other considerations do not permit this.
We cooperate with the Department of State in the training
of these labor attaches in various ways. One is that we will
have three to five middle range Foreign Service officers
detailed to us each year and they will,. spend nine or ten months
in the Department of Labor learning the trade, so to sneak,
that is the activities of the Department and all of their
complexity, so as to prepare them in their chosen field of
specialization.
We also provide a one-week seminar to the broader based
group of Foreign Service persons. This is done in order to
see that all Foreign Service officers at least have some
acquaintance with labor matters, labor history and labor
institutions in the United States.
In addition, on occasion, attaches are sent on a rather
short notice basis to receive intensive training at our hands
as part of their preparation for a position which will require
labor reporting.
This really describes I think adequately the basic work
the Department does. I should remind you that the Department of
Labor is involved in other overseas ;a.tters such as ILO, NDP
and OECD, but these don't present problems to us in terms of
availability of personnel.
That, therefore, will describe, I think, the essence of
what I have to say in this statement.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Pell. One other question directed to Mr. Mace.
2 I realize that it may be slightly sensitive. But one of the
3 agencies that does have representatives abroad is the Central
- Intelligence Agency.
In coordinating your statement, were you in contact with
Mr. Mace. No, sir.
Senator Pell. I wonder if they have a view about this
9 bill?
10 Mr. Mace. I honestly don't know.
11 Senator Pell. As you well know, they have a certain
12 number of people abroad. I think if there are any differing
13 views on the part of the Central Intelligence Agency, maybe you
14 would make them known to the committee.
i5 If, on the other hand, they are the same as yours, we
16 will presume you will have contacted them and that that is the
17 case.
L18
Mr. Mace. Yes, sir.
Senator Pell. I will turn over the proceedings to the
principal sponsor of the bill, and Senator Dominick, and I am
glad to see Senator Javits back also.
Senator Dominick. Senator Javits?
Senator Javits. I would like for you to proceed, Senator.
Senator Dominick. Mr. Mace, I read over the letter which
the Department sent to Senator Yarborough. I would like to add
I Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
just a couple of questions.
12
I gathered from your opening statement here that one of
the basic objections you have is the transfer of the institute
over to the new board created under this bill. Is that
correct?
Mr. Mace. Yesn sir.
Senator Dominick. if that were eliminated and that left
it within the control of the Department-of State, as it now
is, would that be one of the major objections the State
Department has?
Mr. Mace. It would certainly satisfy that objection.
Senator Dominick. Would the State Department still have
a number of objections to the bill?
Mr. Mace. Yes.
Senator Dominick. Those objections would be based on what,
the language or on just what you consider as the lack of need?
Mr. Mace. Lack of need.
Senator Dominick. Is the lack of need restricted again
to the question of the promotion or the training of Foreign
Service officers or does it involve lack of need in other
agencies? If so, how do you know about them?
Mr. Mace. I can only speak for the Department of State
with respect to our needs. More specifically, we find that in
the last four fiscal years, we have had an average of about
125 junior officer appointments each year.. We have had in each
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
case up to three and 4,000 applicants for the examination.
So that we feel that the universities are turning out
people who are interested in Foreign Affairs and who are
willing to take our competitive examinations, and that the
numbers far exceed now under the present system, without any
cost to the Government candidates who are fully qualified.
Senator Dominick. Certainly, you don't want to limit or
restrict the number of people that apply, do you?
Mr. Mace. No.
Senator Dominick. The interest in this, I presume, would
be quite gratifying?
Mr. Mace. Yes, we are gratified with the interest that
has been maintained.
Senator Dominick. I would think under those circumstances
if this was designed as it is to try to stimulate further
interest in this, that this would be welcomed by the State
Department.
Mr. Mace. Yes.
Senator Dominick. It is giving you a. broader scope.
People from the various institutions around the country who
have even more interest in this problem than they have now.
Mr. Mace. I think that is true.
Senator Dominick. We debated for quite a period of time
as to what to do about the Institute. We decided that since
this was designed to be a fairly all encompassing bill, it would
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
put this provision in. It is not necessary to the scope of
the bill to have that. We could amend it to take that out.
I think as a matter of fact, it probably would decrease
the number of problems that we have got if we did take it out.
But, nevertheless, I have been through the Foreign Service
Institute on several occasions and we are going to have some
witnesses who will testify specifically on that before we are
through.
in general, then,you would say that you are simply saying
that the bill has probably a good directive but that you have
enough people now. Therefore, you don't see any additional
need for it?
Mr. Mace. Yes, sir.
Senator Dominick. This is of interest to me since the
exhibit that we have and which I have already put in the record
shows that we have a total of 42,332 U.S. citizens serving
abroad, not counting the ones who live here and are in constant
contact with them. Surely you don't say that the Institute or
the State Department gives training to all those people?
Mr. Mace. No, sir.
Senator Dominick. We have, I might say, Mr. Toner, almost
11,000 people in State, including A.I.D. and Peace Corps, and
specifically in the A.I.D., we have 4146 U.S. 'citizens living
abroad.
Mr. Toner. Yes, sir.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21: CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. Do I gather that you think, it is
better to have these people do these jobs on the basis of on-
the-job training?
Mr. Toner. No, sir. I did not mean to convey that.
Senator Dominick. That is specifically what you say in
your testimony.
Mr. Toner. Perhaps I could expand, Senator. We do have a
variety of training programs, both in-house and academic which
our employees now have access to. The point I was trying to
stress is that given a turnover rate of roughly 400 persons a
year in our offices grouping and an input of only 50 per year
of youngsters just out of college, we don?t see a continuing
present need of much magnitude to meet our current requirements.
The 50 people who come in and the others who we recruit
at mid-levels can be trained within our existing facilities,
we believe.
Senator Dominick. I was interested -Ln your comment on
the special Vietnam training program. I just returned from
Vietnam, where I had the privilege of meeting with your A.I.D.
personnel. As you know, until fairly recently we had very
substantial trouble over there with regard to both management
and direction of many of our A.I.D. personnel.
The point I am making is that I am sure that every agency
would like to say, "We are going to set up our own training
curriculum" and this is going to be true. It has been true
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 1.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
universally since the time of Caesar, that every department
wants to set up their own training program for their own people
and understandably so.
My effort here is not to try and give specific expertise
to each separate department on asking a person 17 years old of
making up his mind what he is going to do when he is 25, but
give them the broad background to understand what we are trying
to do overseas in the various agencies.
It would seem to me that this is something that could be
very helpful in particularly your upper management level. Do
you have any comment on that?
Mr. Toner. In summary, Senator, I would try to make a
point that most of the people that we recruit into our programs
are recruited at the mid-level rather than junior. We try to
find people who are already trained, who are already expert,
who will serve in a specialized technical assistance role, who
may not stay with us very long, but who will fit in the
immediate need that we have.
Thus, when we recruit them, we try to look for people who
are already highly qualified and thus our training programs
for them are not as great as they would. be if wesere picking
up the bulk of our employees at a more junior level.
Senator Dominick. This wouldn?t prevent that, would it?
Mr. Toner. No, sir.
Senator Dominick. You could still go ahead with that..
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Mr. Mace, coming back to the State Department letter, you
say that the Corps that we have envisaged here in this bill
could impose a real obstacle to open competition in the final
selection of Class 7 and 8 Foreign Service officers.
You go on to say that there is some reason to believe that
the Corps members would be in a preferred position in taking
the Foreign Service exam.
You use the words "could conceivably and some reason to
believe" and although I know this is standard phraseology
used by the State Department on a number of occasions, what
do you mean by that as far as the bill is concerned? How does
it give them any preferred position or conceivably jeopardize
the class of open competition?
Mr. Mace. My feeling was in reading the bill, sir, that
if the Federal Government in effect supported the training of
one of the 3500 or one of the 1500 maximum students envisaged
under the program, that that individual would assume, and I'
think quite properly assume, that at the and of his Government-
paid education, he would have a priority right of some sort to
enter the Foreign Service.
Senator Dominick. But they are not going all into the
Foreign Service.
Mr. Mace. I mean the Foreign Service in the larger sense.
Senator Dominick. Some of them will be going into
Commerce, some into Agriculture, some will be going into the
I Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Mr. Mace. I am guilty of a little mistaken semantics.
I mean the foreign service community, people engaged in the
Government-related to foreign affairs.
Senator Dominick. If they have had specialized training
in this, don't you think they would probably do better in that
competition?
Mr. Mace. I think they might. But at the same time, the
fact that they have done better might work to the disadvantage
of the man who has paid his own way.
Senator Dominick. I don't see that. If a man pays his own
Tway and you have got a limited number of scholarships around
the country and he is just as bright as the other guy, I don't
see any distinction there. At least there is no distinction
going into the bill.
Senator Javits. Senator, would you yield?
Senator Dominick. Yes.
Senator Javits. I wanted to ask a question of fact.
I would be very interested r_ as I am a member, like
Senator Pell, both of this committee and the Foreign Relations,
and indeed, I am ranking member of this committee --in the
evolution of the system that you now use.
How has it changed, let us say since World War I when the
United States really became a world power:' How are those
changes related to the foreign policy problems of the United
I Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 16
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
States?
I think that that might be a very interesting thing
because I think I understand what Senator Dominick is getting
at. I am very sympathetic to it. He really wants to bring
the Foreign Service Corps down to the people's level, which is
very much like we do with our own services. It is part of the
genius of the American military systems in the terms of the
people it turns out as a result. It may be false in the way
it is done and we don't want to destroy what we have accomplishes.
It is a fact that the Foreign Service officers are
generally college graduates and you have got to have been some
before you can become a Foreign Service officer. That isn't
necessarily right.
But I do think that perhaps if we got. a little of the
thinking of the Department as to how its system has developed
and it is satisfactory, and I assume that that is what this
reflects, the satisfaction of the existing system, as it relates
to the ways in which these Foreign Service officers are fed into
the stream, we might be very much helped.
Also, I think Senator Dominick's bill ought to have
coupled with it an analysis of exactly what is the interface
between officers of other departments who have important foreign
relations responsibilities, labor attaches, agriculture attaches,
even military attaches, and again, as their importance has grown,
how the Department feels that its system has kept pace with that
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
I think if we had that, we all might be in a better
position to analyze what is being done here. We may find that
some new needs are highly desirable, which is the first con-
sideration. That is rather my instinct more than my finding
of fact and then proceed from that to see., in collaboration
even with the Department, what that new need would be. I am
sure the Secretary of State at present would agree with the
present state of the world and with the egalitarian nature of
the society, it is not a good idea to confine the opportunities
solely to the college graduate.
I think that is essentially what Senator Dominick is {
driving at. So would you be kind enough to submit some analysis
of the thinking of the Department as to how the broadened
responsibilities which I have described relate to the system,
and secondly, what accommodation the system has for a non-elite
opening, or an opening for a non-elite American?
Mr. Mace. I would be pleased to do so, sir.
(The information to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 10
11
17
is
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. Mr. Mace, you refer from time to time
about training programs that the State Department has been able
to conduct. In how many areas do you have pre-employment
categories? In other words, do you have training or pre-employ-
ment requirements prior to the time that you take somebody on?
Mr. Mace. You are speaking of people we are proposing to
hire?
Senator Dominick. Yes.
Mr. Mace. We have no programs at our expense for the
pre-training of potential employees.
Senator Dominick. That is what I thought. That is why it
seemed to me that maybe this is another reason for passage of
the bill, which you do have some pre-training here prior to the
time that the selection process even gets underway. It seemed
to me that that might be of some assistance.
Mr. Mace. I think, sir, I don't believe we have any
legislative authority at the present time to engage in any
pre-employment training.
Senator Dominick. That is what I had hoped you would say,
in fact.
Is my understanding correct that the State Department at
the present time in respect to Foreign Service officers can
send them to colleges or universities for upgrading?
Mr. Mace. Yes, sir.
Senator Dominick. That authority does not extend, as I
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 23
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
understand it, to other agencies of Government, does it?
Mr. Mace. I believe It does now, yes, sir. I think in
the last few years there has been legislation authorizing
practically all Government agencies to send their employees
to universities for training.
Senator Dominick. Hot-,7 many other agencies in fact do get
this opportunity? Do you know?
Mr. Mace. I know that A.I.D. does, U.S.I.A. does, Labor
does, Commerce does. I think a great many agencies do, sir.
.Senator Dominick. Those are paid for out of the budget
of the respective agencies, not by State?
Mr. Mace. That is right.
Senator Dominick. in 1961, the incoming Kennedy Adininistra
Lion created two separate advisory bodies, the President's
Advisory Panel on the National Academy of Foreign Affairs under
the chairmanship of Mr. Perkins, and the Committee on Foreign
Affairs Personnel, chaired by former Secretary of State, Mr.
Herter.
Both groups concluded that "The Foreign Service Institute
itself was parochial and at times excessively concerned with
State Department operations and inadequate in providing in-
service training." This is the reply that they get.
Specifically, what has been done to correct those problems
since that time, if you know? This I think bears a little bit
on what Senator Javits was saying as to what changes had been
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Mr. Mace. I was not here at the time that you are talking
about. I was abroad during the activities of the committee
appointed by President Kennedy.
I would say, and I believe you would confirm this, sir,
that the Foreign Service Institute now first of all enjoys
excellent physical facilities. They have a very fine plant
in which the Institute is located.
I think that the quality of the staff of the Foreign Servic(
Institute in terms of educational background of its staff and
their capabilities has been enhanced considerably since those
committee reports have been made.
At the present time we don't have a Director of the Foreign
Service Institute with the retirement of Ambassador Hart who
was the last Director. I think Ambassador Hart and before him,
Ambassador Allen, brought a new and distinguished leadership to
the Foreign Service Institute that had not been present in
earlier years.
I trust that we will be able to appoint a highly qualified
individual to direct the Foreign Service Institute. As a matter
of fact, the Undersecretary has appointed a committee to look
into the question of appointing the properly qualified educator
to head the Foreign Service Institute.
I think that the Foreign Service Institute during the past
ew years has improved its capability of meeting the in-service
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
training needs of our personnel and those of approximately 30
agencies who do at the present time send students to Foreign
Service Institute.
I think particularly our program of economic training has
gone quite a ways in meeting the needs of upgrading the quality
of our economic commercial officers, and we have done that
jointly with the Department of Commerce. I have had a statement
with them fairly recently in which I think.it is fair to con-
clude that both they and our economic officers in the Department
are satisfied with the quality of that particular type of
training.
Senator Dominick. We will have Mr. Hart and Mr. Allen
on as witnesses later on. I look forward to their testimony.
In your letter, you say you have about 8,000 employee
family members per year from other Government agencies which
go through this. Most of that consists of language instruction
and basic briefings regarding the country of their assignment?
Mr. Mace. A majority of it does, yes, sir. I have a
breakdown of the types of training and the number of students.
Senator Dominick. I think this would be helpful to put
that in the record at this point.
Senator Pell. Without objection, it will be placed in the
record at this point.
(The information to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 18
'- 24
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. Do you have any idea of cost per
enrollee of the F.S.I.?
Mr. Mace. I don't have that with me. I know their annual
budget runs roughly $10 million a year, of which a substantial
portion, I believe about one-third, comes from the appropriationli
of other agencies who send their students to the Foreign Service
Institute.
I don't know that- I can get figures for all the different
types, but the major categories I can certainly provide.
Senator Dominick. You have also objected in here to what
you say is the lack of flexibility, because we say that one
year during every five, foreign service people should come back
to the United States.
At the present time, the Foreign Service Act requires that
they spend three out of 15 in the United States. You say this
restricts flexibility?
Mr. Mace. Yes, sir.
Senator Dominick. Actually, under that circumstance, the
general tour is four years anyhow, isn't it?
Mr. Mace. Yes. It is broken by home leave in between,
within the middle of the period.
Senator Dominick. Three and 15 is one for five, just
about, anyhow. So there isn't very much difference.
Mr. Mace. I think the point is that the present legal
requirement is that an officer must serve during his first 15
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 18
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
years of service three years in the continental United States.
What we try to do is to make that one block, of three years
rather than bringing him back more frequently than that because
it is very expensive to transfer a man and his family at
frequent intervals.
Senator Dominick. The average tour abroad, however, is
about four years. Does this mean that you keep a person 12
years?
Mr. Mace. I don't think it is quite that high. It runs
somewhere around 27 to 30 months, as the average. Of course,
our average has been upset quite dramatically in the last few
years with the reductions that we have suffered.
Senator Pell. It occurs to me that what we are groping
with here is almost a philosophical question as to whether the
input in the Foreign Service, whether the United States interest
is advanced by having the people coming into the Foreign Service
with already some ideas of training of U.S. objectives abroad,
or whether it is better to sacrifice that and concentrate on
really as completely diverse a spread as possible for when they
come in.
This is a question of which there can be honest disagreemen
I think speaking, I still try and stay in touch with the
thinking of the Foreign Service, one of the problems of the
young Foreign Service officer faces is they come in rather
excitedly and they discover very often that their initial job
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 i r 11 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
39
24
is really not up to their training and their capacity and
their expectations. They had thought that everyone has an
attaches case when he enters.
I think it is a very wrong kind of consent. I don't think
the people go into the clergy with the idea of becoming a
bishop. I think the Foreign Service would be much healthier
if the young men came in because they believe in the life of
service, a life of travel and went in for that reason rather
than setting their sights too high and then they find they are
getting disappointed.
The result is today, in the early stages of the Foreign
Service, you are losing your best young men from boredom and
your best young men who are efficient and you are keeping the
broad middle spectrum. I think our objective here is while we
continue to lose the bottom portion, we keep that top portion.
I look at the classes when I joined the Service and the
fellows with perhaps the most imagination are not those who
have stuck with the Service through the loss of our national
interest. These are just general observations. I don't know
if they recall any comments on your part or not.
Mr. Mace. .I think in general. I would agree with your
comment, Senator.
I think that we should and we are in the process of
making some changes which we hope will lessen that trend.
Senator Pell. I read Ambassador McComber's speech
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1 40
carefully and congratulated him on it. As you know, there has
been thought of a commission approaching this whole problem
and it is almost time for it by now, and i hope this is not
just a means of forestalling that. I think all the changes that
are needed to be made can be made within the Foreign Service
with the legislation we presently have. One of the great
problems you face is you haven't taken full advantage of the
legislation we have.
The original War Manpower, Act of 1946 gave you complete
flexibility. I think probably what Senator Dominick is seeking
to cope with here could have been not a problem if the full
authority under the legislation could be exericsed by the
Department.
Thank you.
Senator Dominick. Mr. Mace, do you have any statistics
showing how a newly recruited Foreign Service officer stands
on any national scale, such as a comparison on the College
Board exams or the graduate record exams or anything of that
kind?
Mr. Mace. No, sir, I don't have that. I believe I can
provide data which can relate to that.
Senator Pell. As a matter of ,.observation, the standard is
fantastically high -- the fellows who graduate from college
now and the ones who can pass this exam.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. If we can get this data, I think it woul
 17
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
be helpful to give us some idea of the comparability.
Mr. Mace. Yes.
Senator Pell. I agree.
(The information to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. Again, I don't know whether you have
this. But if you have, I think it would be helpful -- a
comparison of how the incoming Foreign Service officers compare
4111with other groups entering Government service, or similar
professions in the private sector. I don't know whether you
6 have that or not,
7 Mr. Mace. No, sir, I don't. Do you mean comparison. with
8 respect to intelligence and numbers of degrees?
9 Senator Dominick. I was thinking in terms of relative
10 ranges, and the degree level which they have gotten prior to
11 the time that they entered the service and this kind of thing?
12 Mr. Mace. Compared say with junior attorneys being
13 employed?
14 Senator Dominick. Yes, if you have an attorney coming in
15 for example, how does he compare with the people who are going
16 into an international firm. I don't know whether you have got
17 any records of that kind. You might take a look.
1n Mr. Mace. All right. I know we have done some work on
19 that with the Department of Labor earlier In the past year.
20 I think I can provide some data.
2i (The information to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 19
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. As to the one-day written exam which
has been instituted, does this show any trends in scores, for
example, as to the ability of the Foreign Service officers
which you have been recruiting? A one-day written exam is
fairly recent, I gather?
Mr. Mace. A one-day written exam has been given since
1946, with legislation that was passed then, which is our
basic legislation of the Foreign Service Act of 1946, which
established the present basic concepts of both the written and
oral examinations. They have been given with few exceptions
annually.
What that examination attempts to do is to in effect test
the general intelligence of the candidate and it is followed
by an oral examination, which is more directly designed to
determine aptitude and experience capability of performing
duties of the Foreign Service officer. So it is a two-part
examination, a written and an oral.
At the present time, Senator, it has three options: one
for the field of political science, one for economic and
commercial training and one for administrative management
training.
Senator Dominick. I wonder, to use the colloquial
expression, if you could give us any statistics on the dropout
rate over the past 10 or 15 years of the Foreign Service
officers?
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Mr. Mace. You said dropout, you mean voluntary?
Senator Dominick. Yes.
Mr. Mace. Yes, sir, I can.
Senator Dominick. Both voluntary and involuntary.
Mr. Mace. I will be glad to provide that. We have done
some analysis of that. We find that our dropout rate compares
most favorably with other Government agencies. In other words,
we have a relatively low dropout rate.
Senator Dominick. I am glad to hear that. I think it
would be helpful if you could give us those figures.
Mr. Mace. Yes, sir.
(The information to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 20 I
22
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1'
Senator Dominick. One of the objections which have been I
raised from time to time is the fact that this is designed t
only to take care of employees who are going to be serving
overseas. Actually, it is also designed to take care of
citizens who are working within the United States but are in
really pretty constant touch with people overseas.
Do we have any list or does anybody have any list of those
people and who they are?
Mr. Mace. In the United States?
Senator Dominick. Yes.
Mr. Mace. No, sir, I don't. It could be obtained from
the agencies that are engaged in the field.
Senator Dominick. We will have to gather those from the
respective agencies, then?
Mr. Mace. Do I have a list of the agencies?
Senator Dominick. No, we would have to gather them from
the respective agencies?
Mr. Mace. I would be willing to undertake to get them
for you, sir.
Senator Dominick. If you can, I think this would be
helpful. I have a feeling it is going to be quite a massive
number of people.
Mr. Mace. Yes, I think we would have to agree upon the
terms of references of what we mean by people engaged in foreign
affairs. I wouldn't think you would assume for example you
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Y
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
1 1Iwould want all the people in. the Pentagon who are related to
2 1J military operations abroad, but on the other hand, I am sure
you would want to include parts of the Department of Labor,
4 A.I.D., Department of Commerce, U.S.I.A. and others.
5 Senator Dominick. Yes.
6 Senator Pell. By others, do you mean the Central`
7 intelligence Agency?
Mr. Mace. Yes, sir. I think they should be included.
9 Senator Dominick. With all due respect, I wonder if we
10 wouldn't get into pretty sensitive ground on that, Mr. Chairman.
11 I am inclined to think if we didn't get into the CIA, we would
12 be better off on this particular type of question.
1.3 Senator Pell. Maybe it could be given to us on a
14 classified basis.
15 Senator Dominick. That would be all right with me. I
Ll 6 serve on the subcommittee.
17 (The information to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 is
25
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Mr. Mace. In this connection, Senator, may I ask that
the reporter give to me the sort of thing that Senator Javits
was asking so I have the full flavor of the thrust of his
questions and yours.
Senator Dominick. Correct. With respect to my question,
I am talking about those who work in administering international
affairs programs and in their department or have contact on
a regular basis with citizens of other countries in person or
by way of communication.
Mr. Mace. Right.
Senator Pell. You will receive a copy of the rough draft
of the testimony tomorrow and you can clean up any tiny
grammatical errors or even most substantive errors, in fact.
Mr. Mace. Thank you.
Senator Dominick. One further question as a matter of
information.
There are about 179,000 non-citizens who are employees of
our Government and in foreign countries. Do we give them any
specific educational programs or is it simply on-the-job
training by and large?
Mr. Mace. To my knowledge, it is almost exclusively on-
the-job training.
Senator Dominick. Thank you very much.
Senator Pell. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
11
OC11dLVr Y'N..J.J.o VUL i1CAL WJLSIC55 :L 5 W.C. ! eULCjC. Vtdlsbill U'.J.,
Special Assistant to the Secretary for International Affairs,
Do you have a formal statement.
STATEMENT OF DR. GEORGE GRASSMUCK,
SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE SECRETARY FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS,
I believe that you have copies there. It is a rather extensive
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION AND WELFARE
Dr. Grassmuck. I do, Mr. Chairman. I have submitted it.
10 statement. I could summarize it, if you choose.
14 Senator Pell. Certainly. It will be inserted in the
12 record in full. If you care to summarize it, it would be all
13 right.
14 (The statement referred to follows:)
22
25
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 20
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Dr. Grasamuck. I am before you with a mixed education
background which I should state very succinctly. I have been
an academic administrator for some time. I served as an
assistant vice president for Academic Affairs at the University
of Michigan where I was in charge of international programs
before joining the present Administration of the Department of
Health, Education and Welfare.
For this reason, the testimony which I give you is based
upon several approaches or several facets of study of the topic
which the Senator from Colorado has in mind.
As you know, our Department is a domestic agency and as
such, we have concerned ourselves particularly with matters
which are of great importance in the United States. Insofar as
our external activities are concerned, we have followed the
lead. of the Department of State and A.I.D. in the work which
they have done and also in our approach to the Senate Bill,
939. We have deferred to the Department of State in its
position and in the statements which it has made.
But while our Department is a domestic agency by intent
and statute and action, as you well know, of environmental
necessity, if for no other reason, it finds itself working more
and more in international fields and dealing with problems which
extend beyond the continental United States and beyond the
boundaries of our country.
Within the statement, I have presented a brief description
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 19
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
of a large number of activities in which we are engaged. To
mention them and cite them very briefly, I believe we have
some 1,000 DHFW employees who work principally with inter-
national activities. These are not always the same 1,000,
because the professionals we have in our staffs are called on
on different occasions and at different times to go abroad and
to serve for international purposes.
One of those examples, of course, would be found in our
Organization for Pollution Control. Here suddenly we find
individuals who up to this time had not thought of themselves
as international servants or international individuals, now
finding that they must serve in the solution of some inter-
national problem.
To go further with that, we could count any number of
activities relating to smallpox, malaria and other diseases
and quarantine problems. We could go on, if we will, to the
John Foggerty International Center for Advanced Study in the
Health Sciences. This is the part of the National Institute
of Health.
We could go on to the Institute of International Studies
and to various other activities which have developed within the
vast network of the Department of Health, Education and Welfare.
It is with those that I am primarily concerned at this
time within my administrative capacity and as a Special
Assistant for International Affairs to Secretary Finch. I
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
endeavor to try to find some sense and .meaning in the melange
which we have before us.
In considering Senate 939 of this present bill, I looked
at it from my personal position and also with some idea of
what the Department saw as its immediate concerns as it
endeavors to develop international competence which is
required by the new day, the new problems, which confront us.
I found at least a few points which I thought could be
mentioned advantageously here and would lead to the further
discussion and to the legislative consideration which is before
Senate Bill 939 and the purposes and objectives that Senator
Dominick has.
First of all., I would agree that our search for talent to
serve us abroad should be as far ranging and as deeply probing
as we can make it. I am of the opinion that present recruit-
ment procedures are adequate to immediate needs, but that there
is a need for a broader talent base, there is need for more
capabilities, and that some of these can be tapped through the
bill.
A second point which I would like to make is that the
bill has one of its broad purposes the utilization of the
considerable capabilities that have developed during the past
decade or so in our colleges and universities throughout the
country.
I would emphasize that a good deal of private and public
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 13
14
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
capital has been poured into these developrients and the
institutionalization of these approaches.
This is both in private foundation money, individual
monies and it has been public funds which have come through
the National Defense Education Act, through Title 6 of that
Act, through various other efforts for which the U.S. Government
has been most supportive.
With these two basic points in mind, it seems to me that
the thrust of what I would present today is the idea that we
do have a considerable new capability in materials, in manpower,
in training and that the real problem which would confront a
professional department such as that of Health, Education and
Welfare is to combine these capabilities with the professional
competencies to enable us to do as successful a job as we
confront and as we anticipate in the future.
This is the summary of my statement.
Senator Pell. I appreciate your statement.
I think while the Congress is never governed by the views
of the Executive Branch, it does appreciate knowing them. I
am wondering, do you believe the national interest would be
better served by the passage of this bill or better served by
its defeat?
Dr. Grassmuck. I am not in a position to make a statement
on that at this time, Senator. It is my view that the broad
purposes of the bills should be very definitely and thoroughly
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 11
12
18
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
considered and the ideas which have generated it, the needs
which have generated it, should result in the development of
further legislation which would be satisfactory to the Executive
and Legislative Branches and to the meeting of our needs.
Senator Pell. This is a little aggravating frankly,
because I understand you don't want to take the position, and
you are instructed not to take a position, but are you either
for it, you oppose it, or do you support it or decline to
take a position? Don't give me sort of a cloud of words.
Dr. Grassmuck. Certainly, Mr. Chairman, I recognize your
needs.
Senator Pell. I just want to know your position. The
State Department is very forthright and said they opposed it,
period. We know where they stand. Where do you stand, or do
you just say you have no position?
Dr. Grassmuck. I am in a position to defer to the
Department of State and this we have done. I am also in a
position to say that we have very good interest in the broad
purposes of the bill, and then a further point which should
be made and this should be considered here certainly, 'is that
there are aspects of the bill which I am sure will need fd they
legislative consideration before the bill is ultimately passed.
Senator Pell. Many of us face decisions. To have this or
that in would be a great idea, or it is a good idea and we
support it on balance. On balance, do you oppose it, support
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
it or decline to take a position? You can do any one of the
three, but just please do one of them.
Dr. Grassmuck. What you have given me, Mr. Chairman, is
a.. set of three positions. I believe there are more possibilitie
than those, if I may say so. There are definite nuances here
and there are positions which we want.
I should say that you know the Administration's position
at present is in opposition to this bill. II should say as well
that the bill represents recognizing a felt need in the con-
sideration of ways in which we can meet the need. In that case,
I am certainly in favor of its thorough consideration and its
analysis in the legislative channels which you know well and
which certainly, Mr. Chairman, have their advantages as they
refine legislative measures.
To go further than that, I would say there are certain
specific parts of the bill which raise questions and which I
would be happy to discuss and talk with you about, if you would
care.
Senator Pell. I will accept this cloud of words. Really,
most witnesses had come up from the Administration are a little
more forthrightly to say the ideas are good and they support
the concept or they say the ideas are good but they believe it
is not in shape to be passed, but they have a view. I really
don't recall a witness who is being quite as fussy in this
regard and unwilling to take a position on balance as you.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 .24
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Thank you.
Senator Dominick. Dr. Grassmuck? I have read over your
statement. I appreciate the support which you give the idea
anyhow.
Senator Pell. He may well support the bill. He just
won't say it.
Senator Dominick. If I understand your position, the
position that you are in, that you have to defer to the State
Department and you are not going to go beyond that, other than
the fact that you say the bill does have some good objectives.
Am I correct in that interpretation?
Dr. Grassmuck. Yes, sir, I believe you are, Senator.
Senator Dominick. I thank you for the kind words. It
is helpful to get at least some people who think it is a good
idea. I hope you keep after it.
I do have some questions. Do you have a tabulation which
could identify by the number and location, location by country
of the civilian employees of your Department who are abroad
whether they are U.S. citizens or otherwise?
Dr. Grassmuck. No, sir, at present we don't have a
complete tabulation for the full Department. We have statistics
at present for the Public Health Service, and I should be
happy to submit those, if you care to have them. We are
endeavoring to get a complete tabulation of all of the people
who are in the service of HEW who are abroad and I shall submit
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 25
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
that for the record.
Senator Dominick. That would be very helpful. I would
appreciate it. If you could give us the Public Health Service
as graphically as possible and get the others in as soon as
you can, it would be helpful.
(The information to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
57
Senator Dominick. As to your personnel who are serving
overseas, how many of them receive in-service training after
employment?
Dr. Grassmuck. You are speaking, sir, of in-service
training which would enable them to work overseas specifically?
Senator Dominick. Yes, or to upgrade their expertise
overseas, wherever they may be stationed. In other words,
some of them I would presume go to the Foreign Service
Institute. I am just presuming this. I would also believe
that probably some of them are sent to colleges or universities
and some of them may get some in-service training.
Maybe if you could give us some breakdown of how many of
these are, what the proportion is amongst those three examples.
Dr. Grassmuck. Yes, sir. I would need of course to get
the whole population overseas before I am able to determine the
amount of in-service training which they would get and would
be happy to try to submit that to you as well.
(The information to be furnished follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
I could say, though, on the basis of present experience
that those of our personnel who go to colleges and universities
are detailed for that purpose, usually don't go there to learn
about international activities. They go for professional
advancement and development. I have not heard of one who went
to a college or university for international training.
Senator Dominick. In other words, they go there to
upgrade their own area of expertise?
Dr. Grassmuck. Yes, sir. That has been the emphasis
entirely in the Department. This is the scale upon which
their promotions are based. It is to that end that they
address themselves.
Senator Dominick. The broad scope of knowledge of our
(relationship with other nations is not really touched on on
that unless it happens to be their area of expertise?
Dr. Grassmuck. Yes, sir, unless it happens to be their
area of expertise or unless they are willing to do a good bit
of at-home reading on their own.
Senator Dominick. Setting aside the number of citizens
that you have located overseas, I would also presume that you
have domestic employees, people who live within this country,
who are either administering programs through contacts with
other countries or readily are in contact with citizens of
other countries. Is that correct?
Dr. Grassmuck. Yes, sir. We have a large number of
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 19
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
employees who are engaged in this type of activity, and who
have face-to-face conversation contact and other forms of
contact with individuals who are overseas, some of them in
relatively high level positions in corresponding ministries
of health or education.
We do have a number of professionals.
Senator Dominick. So you would supply the information that
we asked Mr. Mace to get. He could get it from your Department
and from you fairly easily then?
Dr. Grassmuck. Yes, sir, we would be the ones responsible
to for giving him that information.
Senator Dominick. Do you have any rough estimate at
this time as to how many of these people might be involved?
Dr. Grassmuck'. It would be over 800 who are at work of
this kind. We now have such a variety of institutes and
organizations which are at work here that this has become a
very large group for us.
If I could emphasize very briefly here the function of
this organization or of these people, it is not only that of
diplomatic contacts certainly, but of the development of
additional sources of knowledge and information about such
activities as health delivery services, or of better ways of
controlling communicable diseases or of the discussion and
handling of population situations.
In all of these instances we come into the need for a very
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
neat arrangement of diplomatic capabilities along with pro-
fessional competence. out of this, in turn, we hope there is
a considerable input into the Department of Health, Education
and WElfare on the way in which things are being done.
Senator Dominick. How often do the overseas employees
return to the United States, either on sustained or on a
temporary basis? In other words, what is the term of service
overseas, and then how long do they come back here and then do
they go overseas again?
Dr. Grassmuck. A two-year assignment overseas is usually
considered a long assignment and about maximum for our people.
There are occasions when they are detailed to other activities
on..participating agency service agreements. This would mean
that some of our professionals may be working with A.I.D. for
a period of three years or so. But this would be about the
maximum.
Senator Dominick. Would they then come back and stay here
for a while? Or do they come back and stay here permanently?
Dr. Grassmuck. we would have hope that they generally
come back and stay a while and I think that is the regular
practice for most of these people. In a number of other cases,
however, there are individuals who are assigned for particular
tasks for functions overseas who may find that this is their
one assignment overseas and who then return to thy; regular
,order of business in the Department.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 12
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. Do you give any training to the
families of these employees who go overseas?
Dr. Grassmuck. No, sir, we don't.
Senator Dominick. No language training?
Dr. Grassmuck. We have endeavored to make some provisions
for that, as we can, but it is usually quite limited.
Senator Dominick. With respect to your allocation of
people to the Foreign Service Institute for further training,
do. the families of these people also get training through the
Foreign Service Institute?
Dr. Grassmuck. To my knowledge, they are given an
opportunity to have that training. However, again, I must
confess ignorance on much of this matter.
The people who go to the Foreign Service Institute are
relatively few from our Department, and so far as I know, they
have not had a major impact upon the total of our international
activities.
Senator Pell. I would like to interpolate here. I think
the Foreign Service Institute is capable of handling a number.
If I am wrong, I wish you could correct me, and the decisions
as to whether the families receive language and protocol
training rests entirely with the people. Am I correct or
wrong, Mr. Mace?
Mr. Mace. We do not normally give language training to
dependents. There are some who get language training at their
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 51
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
posts of assignments on what they call a post language training
program.
Senator Pell. What do you mean post language?
Mr. Mace. For example, in Paris, there could be a
language training program in French to which dependents might
be accommodated.
Senator Pell. But only when they are on post?
Mr. Mace. Yes.
Senator Pell. I thought that dependents could get
language training here at the Foreign Service Institute?
Mr. Mace. No.
Senator Pell. I stand corrected.
Senator Dominick. Do you recruit on campus for your
personnel at all, Mr. Grassmuck?
Dr. Grassmuck. Yes, certainly we have regular examinations
for positions in the Department of Health, Education and
Welfare. These examinations, however, are not directed toward
international competence. For the most part, they are efforts
to recruit professionals in the fields of medicine and public
health, engineering, and the other professions.
Senator Dominick. Where does your recruiting go on?
it limited geographically or is it nationwide?
Dr. Grassmuck. The recruiting is nationwide. We make
every effort to recruit through the regional offices and to
distribute the various pieces of information throughout the
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
university world and nationwide.
Senator Dominick. Are you concentrating on any particular-
type of college or university largely at the medical schools or
the public health service schools, or are they general in
nature?
Dr. Grassmuck. To my knowledge, the recruitment that is
done needs to be done within those areas in which professional
competence can be found, which means that we would send of
course circulars and interviewers to the medical schools.
Insofar as possible, however, it has been Departmental
policy to try to make as wide an effort to recruit as is
possible. This would mean a nationwide distribution of our
information.
Senator Dominick. I thank you.
Senator Pell. Thank you very much.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Pell. Our next witness is Dr. Francis Wilcox,
Dean, Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies,
representing the American Council on Education. He is an old
friend, not only personally but an alumnus of the Hill who has
gone on to more glorious circumstances.
STATEMENT OF FRANCIS WILCOX, DEAN,
JOHNS HOPKINS SCHOOL OF ADVANCED INTERNATIONAL STUDIES,
11
REPRESENTING THE AMERICAN COUNCIL ON EDUCATION
Mr. Wilcox. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members
of the committee.
My name is Francis Wilcox, formerly Assistant Secretary of
State, and presently Dean of the Johns Hopkins School of
Advanced International Studies.
Prior to that I had the privilege of serving as Chief of
Staff of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations for a 10-
year period. During my days as teacher, as Government official
and as dean, I have had a great interest in the problem to
which you address yourselves this morning.
For a number of years I have served as a member of the
American Council on Education Commission on International
Education and it is in that capacity that I appear before you
today to support generally S. 939, a bill which you are now
considering.
The American Council on Education represents 1343 colleges
and universities, 213 non-profit education organizations and
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 11
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
83 affiliates. Its membership includes 53 percent of all
regionally accredited universities, 83 percent of all regionally
accredited four-year colleges and 42 percent of all regionally
accredited junior colleges. And providing a line of communica-
tion between higher education and the Federal Government on
major programs and policies of mutual concern is one of the
principal functions of the American Council.
I will not burden you, Mr. Chairman, with reading the
manuscript which I have submitted to the staff of the
committee.
Senator Pell. It will be inserted in the record as if
(The statement referred to follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 17
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Mr. Wilcox. I would like to point out two or three
things in connection with my testimony. The American Council
has long been concerned that the public officers in our
Government, in the foreign field, be given the best preparation
and training that the country could muster and personally, I
have had a feeling that, for example, the Armed Services have
offered many more opportunities in the educational field than
have been available to the Department of State and to some of
the civilian agencies of our Government.
The Councll has consistently sought to develop ways in
which the rich resources of the American colleges and
universities could best be turned to that purpose. We are
already on record, therefore, many times as believing that the
Federal Government should develop and support more purposeful
programs to that end.
We see this legislation a recognition of an appropriate
public responsibility. That responsibility is to underwrite
expertise across a broad range of official U.S. offices repre-
sentation, in keeping with the demands of our complex and
troubled times if I can coin a new phrase.
We believe that the basic scholarship principal involved
in this bill is sound and we think that the long-term purposes
of the bill would be distinctly furthered if some portion of
the monies authorized could be invested directly in strengtheninj
the institutional resources to be used.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 19
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
The Government is bound to look more and more to the
universities for a variety of services. I may say that the
financial strains on institutions of higher learning are
becoming increasingly acute.
We have been looking at'our own budget for the next year,
for example, and I view with some apprehension the years that
lie ahead because of the increased cost of operations and
the tendency on the part of theGovernment to support higher
education a little bit less perhaps than it has in the past.
There is, therefore, I think a mutuality of interest,
but there is also a limit to the financial resources institu-
tions can devote to new programs, no matter how eager they may
be to undertake them.
For this reason, we urge that the pattern established by
the National Defense Fellowships, the National Science
Foundation Fellowships, the National Institute of Health
Fellowships and other programs be followed here and that a cost
of education allowance be paid to the institution for each
scholar or fellow being trained under the proposed program.
In summary, Mr. Chairman, the Council would like to
register its support for the purposes of this proposal,
particularly as they relate to educational support for foreign
affairs. We hope favorable consideration can be given to
strengthening it in the particulars we have suggested in this
memorandum.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 19
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Just one final thought: the American Council recognizes
that the proposed legislation addresses important aspects of
the administration of foreign affairs beyond the educational,
notably the selection process, the manpower needs, and the over-
all management of the foreign service and its institutions.
The foregoing comments relate primarily to the educational
concern of the proposal which we believe toy be so very
important. In general we are quite pleased with your proposal
that our Government should utilize existing institutions of
higher learning for the purpose of preparing American citizens
for careers in the foreign service and in the international
service generally.
Certainly, in my judgment, this is a much more effective
way of meeting our country's needs in this critical field than
the creation of a special foreign service academy as some
people have suggested.
I thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Pell. Thank you.
I was just curious, speaking as a representative of the
colleges, do you see any problem here with students receiving
support from the Federal Govenrment, exercising any constriction
upon the courses they attend or the professors? Do you see any
constrictions arising from the universities from this kind of
support for these cadets, these students?
Mr. Wilcox. No, I don't think so. The fact is, the
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
universities need financial support and will continue to need
more financial support, I think, from the Federal Government.
There is now available money for the proper training and
education of people for the Armed Services, for the Air Force,
the Navy and the Army, and I think appropriate resources should
be made available to the universities for the proper training
and education of people in this important field of: our national
life.
Senator Pell. if, God forbid, that one of these young
men were involved in one of these campus demonstrations, as
you know there is a great deal of movement, would there be any
difficulty in his particular position over those from the
regular NDEA scholarship?
Mr. Wilcox. I don't think they should be treated any
differently, Problems could arise, of course. But these are
minor compared to the great advantages that might stem from
financial assistance of this kind for these purposes. I don't
believe that there are any problems that cannot be resolved
reasonably on the campus today, if both sides take a fairly
reasonable attitude. I think in most cases now the students of
our universities and colleges feel that they are acquiring a
channel of communication to the administration.
Therefore, the need for violence and for demonstrations
is becoming less great from their point of view, if they have
access to the faculty and to the dean and to the president and
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 17
21
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
70'
so on so they can present their demands in an orderly way.
Then the need for these other methods I think abate somewhat.
Senator Pell. I must say I agree with you. Things seem
to be moving in the correct direction. I hope we will study
thismatter further as we conduct our higher education hearing
which will be starting next month.
Senator Dominick?
Senator Dominick. I really appreciate your support for
the ideas behind this bill. I very much appreciate it and the
broad background and the position you have.
It is my understanding that at the present time you are
one member of the group that is looking into the area of
expertise for the new head of the Foreign Service Institute,
is that correct?
Mr. Wilcox. That is correct.
Senator Dominick. T, as I say, have had the privilege of
going through this on several occasions, just visiting. I have
not actually been a student there, although I would liked to
have been on several occasions.
I see you have some doubt about the wisdom of transfering
this from the State Department over to this new board.
Mr. Wilcox. I thought I should put that caveat in my
statement, because I did not want to appear before the committee
having been asked by the Undersecretary to serve on the
committee to which you referred. I did not want any conflict of
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 24
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
interest to present itself. Therefore, I thought I should
excuse myself from taking a position on this point.
What I would feel personally, if I had an opportunity to
study the matter carefully, and if I were not involved in
the deliberations of this other committee, I would not want
to say at the moment.
Senator Dominick. I think this particular provision of
the bill, which I asked the staff to include, certainly does
raise some questions, because it seems to me that maybe these
two programs could go on conjunctively and be of assistance in
the overall ability to educate people and not necessarily have
one or the other.
This is why I put it in and raised the question. We can
decide what to do with it later, as to whether or not to leave
it under the State Department.
Mr. Wilcox. In a sense, I think that is a secondary
question, if I may say so, in terms of the total impact of
the bill.
Senator Dominick. Thatis the way I felt about it. but I
did think the question ought to be raised.
Mr. Wilcox. I do believe, as the Chairman pointed out,
that the Foreign Service institute is doing an increasingly
good job and I feel that with the leadership which it may
have -- this is said without any reflection on previous leader-
ship, which has been very good -- that it can expand its
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 13
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
activities and develop in further constructive ways.
Senator Dominick. I gather from your testimony that you
feel that this approach, namely, to utilize the existence of
the expertise of the existing universities is better than the
Foreign Service?
Mr. Wilcox. Yes, Senators. I think it would be unfortunate
if another institution was created for the purpose of training
and educating foreign service officers when there are so many
universities in various parts of our country that have developed
very good programs in this field and which can offer a wide
variety of professors and talent and programs for this purpose.
I have always felt it was a very good thing to have our
foreign service officers recruited from various parts of the
country and from various institutions.
Senator Dominick. Thank you. That is what I have been
urging for a long time.
Mr. Wilcox, the bill presently contains four year under-
graduate scholarships, as well as graduate scholarships. Some
people in our conversations with them have suggested that the
undergraduate scholarship be for only two years, presumably the
last two years of their college career.
Would you agree with this, or do you think a four year
scholarship is better?
Mr. Wilcox. I think there are sound arguments in favor of
the two year program, particularly if you are thinking in terms
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
of reducing the total amount involved under the bill. Often,
students do not know when they begin their undergraduate work
what kind of career they would find most suitable for their
talents and interest. It is only when they get to the junior
and senior years that they become convinced that they are
really interested in international relations or in economics
or in some other profession.
We have had a program at Hopkins which we call the ABMA
program, designed to give young people coming to the university
for the first time an opportunity to obtaln,a master's degree
in a five year period, whereas, normally, we have a six year
period for the master's degree.
This program has worked quite well, but we find that
generally speaking, many students are not quite ready to make
up their minds by the time they complete their high school
work, whether they want to go into the foreign service or
follow some other pursuit.
So I think it would not be at all harmful to the purpose of
this bill if you would take the last two years rather than
all four years. I may say I approve of the ideals of putting
a little more emphasis upon graduate work rather than under-
graduate work. My experience in the Department of State
suggests that it is very good from some students to have some
graduate work if they are going into the foreign service.
For this reason, in this year's bill, we have increased the
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 td
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
number of graduates as compared to undergraduates. That I think
is a good amendment.
Senator Dominick. If you had your "choosies" do you
think it would be better to restrict the undergraduates to
the last two years and use the funds which would be otherwise
involved for the first two years for giving training to non-
citizen employees who are working overseas?
Mr. Wilcox. I would want to think about that. Generally,
I think it might be a very useful thing to do.
Senator Dominick. It could become complicated if we had
to bring them back to the universities here, as I see it.
Mr. Wilcox. It could be there. But certainly there are I
arguments in favor of providing in-service training for not
only our citizens in the Foreign Service but those who are
performing useful functions for us abroad even though they are
not American citizens.
Senator Dominick. Under the present terms of the bill, if
a Corps member satisfactorily completes a year of specialized
study in a foreign country, after his graduate degree, he is
to be appointed as a foreign service officer without the
examination now required by law.
Do you have any views on the merits of this particular
provision?
Mr. Wilcox. I think it would be all right, if the standard
providing for the selection of officers in the first instance
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 11 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1 75
5
10
are high enough, sufficiently high and the results of the
examinations indicate that the individuals concerned have
indeed achieved a fairly high level.
I would think this would be an appropriate way to handle
the matter. In other words, the selection in the first
instance, if that is good enough, your suggestion I think would
follow.
Senator Dominick. Mr. Wilcox, are there any other
countries that have programs similar to that envisaged in this
bill? Specifically, I was wondering whether the school in
France -- it seems to me that is more like a foreign service
academy.
Mr. Wilcox. Yes, I don't know enough Senator about the
precise relationships between the Government and the individual
students involved at these institutions to be able to answer
your question accurately. of course, as you know, in most of
these countries, the Government takes care of all the expenses
relating to the university and the work, of the students.
In Europe, tuition in Switzerland is practically nothing
at the University of Geneva. I think this is true all over
the continent so that the Government does foot the bill in
almost all cases.
This is what you are attempting to do in this bill.
In addition to that, of course, you are attempting to devise a
selection process which will be suitable and workable. I am
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
afraid I don't know enough about the details to answer your
`question accurately.
Senator Dominick. Do you have any ideas or thoughts on
the name that we have created here, the Foreign Service Corps?
It seems to be somewhat misleading in the broad scope of the
activities that we are looking at. Sometimes, if you get a
7 good program and put a wrong name on it, you can't get it
passed. If you get a bad program and put a nice pink label on
9 it all tied up with a ribbon, you can.
to Mr. Wilcox. I can't offhand think of another title that
91 would be more appropriate. But it is quite possible that one
12 could be devised. Some people may object to the Corps in the
13 sense that it suggest a kind of esprit that is involved let us
14 say in the Naval Academy or the military academy and perhaps
15 this isn't the kind of thing they would want to do for the
16 Foreign service.
17 I don't have any objection myself to the title.
1S Senator Dominick. In like terms, we make several
19 references in the bill to the field of foreign relations. Do
20 you think we should try to define it or use another term?
21 Mr. Wilcox. No, Senator. I think if you attempt to
22 define it, you get into difficulty because in a definition,
23 if you leave out some fields or areas of study, then presumably
24 they would not be subject to the terms of the bill. I think it
25 would be preferable to leave it broad and permit the board to
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
engage in any definitions that might be necessary.
Senator Dominick. I really appreciate it, Mr. Wilcox.
it has been very helpful.
Mr. Wilcox. Thank you very much.
Senator Pell. Thank you very much, indeed, Dr. Wilcox.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 12
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Pell. Our final witness this morning is Professor,
Raymond Tanter, Department of Political Science, University of
Michigan, Ant Arbor, Michigan.
I see you have a prepared statement here. You may proceed
as you wish.
STATEMENT OF PROFESSOR RAYMOND TANTER,
DEPARTMENT OF POLITICAL SCIENCE,
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN,
ANN ARBOR, MICHIGAN
Mr. Tanter. Thank you, Senator. I plan to comment on the
prepared statement.
Senator Pell. it will be received in the record as if
(The statement referred to follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
79
Mr. Tanter. I am doing research at the University of
Michigan devoted to bringing to bear systematic methods to the
study of foreign affairs. Specifically, I am interested in
the application of computer technology to foreign affairs
analysis.
I favor this bill to provide for a Foreign. Service Corps.
The Corps makes use of existing academic institutions, hopefully
drawing upon some of the educational innovations at these
institutions. This is the main point in my testimony.
I list three educational innovations that the Corps might
benefit from: program budgeting, the development of formal
and empirical theory and the use of computers in foreign affairs
analysis.
I use the words "program budgeting" somewhat loosely to
identify a whole host of methods that sometimes go under the
label of systems analysis program budgeting and what haveoou.
But it is the art of relating costs to programs and, as you
know, it made quite an impact in the problem of the Department
of Defense. Program budgeting has not had a corresponding
impact in the Department of State,, however.
Some people argue that moving from Defense to State is
a very difficult task. It is not simply going across a river
that you are moving from a field of relative simplicity,
weapons cost and weapons management in relation to programs, to
a field which is much more complicated, the field of diplomacy.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Well, I argue that the highly trained systems analysts
who work at places like the Rand Corporation had to deal with
quite virgin territory when they first began to apply systems
analysis to the programming of weapons systems and that there
should have been an effort trying to apply program budgeting
and systems analysis in the field of diplomacy, and that, had
such preliminary effort been done at places like the Rand
Corporation, then we would have had some pay-off with respect
to applying or more pay-off with respect to applying these
more systematic methods to foreign affairs analysis.
There have been several studies of the quality of Foreign
Service Officers. I will cite a few of these in my testimony.
John Harr, for example, shows that some 65 percent of Foreign
Service Officers have master's degrees having majored in
history, policitcal science, or international relations. these
are fields that provide the substance of diplomacy but generally
do not provide for modennmanagement tools, for the handling
of diplomacy.
Another study shows that Foreign Service officers generally
favor more intuitive over more systematic approaches. A study
by Regis Walther concludes that the junior FSO is highly
verbal and strongly prefers impressionistic as opposed to
systematic methods of information handling.
One of the reasons for this, I suspect, is because the
hierarchy in the foreign service commnunity has by and large
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 17
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
rewarded intuitive over more systematic approaches. I quote
former Secretary of State Dean Rusk in this respect, and let
me. read that quote.
"What we need to know is everything there is. What we
need to know cannot be accomplished in a man's lifetime. But
we need to delve deeply into many fields in order that we as
policy-makers can make policy with understanding."
This is not the way businesses tend to operate. It is
not the way that many of the more innovative public policy
institutes at universities are training people. But it does
seem to typify the dominant culture in the foreign affairs
community.
This is to be a generalist, to try to know everything
possible, and I argue to be in a very sad position for
managing information as a result, because you are completely
swamped with information if you have no theory which will
guide the processing of information and if you don't have the
techniques for the analysis of such information.
One can look at the country Analysis and Strategy Paper
that the single intergovernmental group does. This is the group
that was formed among the various agencies that handle foreign
affairs. These Country Analysis and Strategy Papers are
stremely weak in theory. They are extremely weak in hard
analysis. They try to describe much to much about "a country
and relate this to the countries or to the United States interes
Approved For Release 2005/11/21: CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
in these countries.
I would suggest that if the staff of the senior inter-
governmental group were more adequately prepared in formal
and empirical theory, in the study of world politics, that
staff would be more likely to turn out Country Analysis and
Strategy Papers which are much more fruitful.
Several universities, such as Berkley, Harvard, Michigan
and Princeton have tried to develop integrated programs that
draw upon formal theory, program budgeting, and the use of
computers in foreign affairs.
I would hope that if-there is a Foreign Service Corps,
that the bulk of the training would be in these more advanced
techniques. I don't think we have a problem with the provision
of the more traditional knowledge in foreign affairs. The
Foreign Service Officer tends to get this without even wondering
about the other methods.
The Foreign Service Institue has developed a quarterly
course in computers in foreign affairs. I have lectured at
this course for over two years. And some of the mid-career
officers have adopted some of the new methods that they have
learned in these courses.
But this course at the Foreign Service Institute which I
consider to be an excellent one only touches a small proportion
of those available as foreign service officers and it does not
have any impact at all on the new foreign service officer.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 17
20
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Dominick. If I might interrupt there, I might
say that your system would have been extremely helpful in
avoiding the expenditure of funds on the airport at
Afghanistan where no airplanes fly into it. All theyhave to
do is put some things in the computer to figure out there
wasn't going to be any air travel there as soon as jets cc-me
into existence.
I sympathize with your efforts.
Mr. Tanter. Thank you, sir, for that systems analysis of
airport traffic.
My suggestions are quite in accord with the American
Foreign Service Association recommendations. You notice that
the leaders of this association, Mr. Walker and Mr. Bray are
trying to push for an expanded competence in foreign affairs
management and analysis within the State Department.
Similarly, within the Bureau of Intelligence and Research,
the Director of External Research has written several papers
on an expanded competence for foreign affairs analysis.
I suggest that this expanded competence will not have much
of an impact unless the initial Foreign Service Officer
training is changed.
My last point is that there has been a sharp decrease in
the support for National Defense Education Act Fellowships.
In the present budget of the Administration, I gather there is
even a more severe decline in the number of fellowships that are
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 22
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
anticipated in the program. This will, I think, hamper the
recruitment of Foreign Service Officers, irrespective of
this methodological orientation that I am suggesting.
With the Ford Foundation, with Carnegie, with Rockefeller
moving more into domestic areas, I suggest that the loss of
NDEA support will be felt very acutely in the recruitment of
foreign affairs personnel.
In addition, the failure of Congress to appropriate funds
for the International Education Act, I think, spells doom
to many universities that emphasize world politics in their
curricular. In particular, I feel this is extremely bad for
the more innovative type curricular.
The universities that have invested large sums of money
in trying these new 'methods out in reference to foreign affairs
might begin to decrease their expenditure in this.
I might add parenthetically that the Agency for Inter-
national Development has a great need for people trained in
program evaluation. They have what is called a "product
appraisal report" which is a report that tries to evaluate a
technical assistance project in a less developed country.
There are over 3,000 or so technical assistance projects that
AID manages abroad.
Most of the personnel are adequate in their technical areas
like health, nutrition and education. But they are not very
adequate when it comes down to evaluating the impact that, say,
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 19
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
a credit cooperative in West Pakistan has on the development of
West Paskistan. They are not adequate in general in evaluating
the big picture, in using the systematic methods for program
evaluation.
I could give similar examples with A.I.D., Peace Corps
and the other foreign affairs agencies.
Thank you.
Senator Pell. Thank you very much.
Your thought in making better systems approach is one that
the State Department particularly, an old line agency, could
make good use of. On the other hand, you start out being a
little critical of the intuition. I think so much of the
dealings we have in the face-to-face basis depend a bit on
intuition. it is very hard to conduct a negotiation on a
systems approach. I think when it comes to what you suggest,
in making operating decisions, there is a great deal of room
for additional use of this methodology.
Senator Dominick?
Senator Dominick. I gather in some areas, Mr. Tanker, what
you are saying is that the scholarships provided under this
bill would give the opportunity for people trained in new
methods to enter into foreign service which would be a shot in
the arm for our whole foreign service. It is certainly the way
I feel and is the reason behind the bill, to be really frank
with you.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
I felt for a long period of time that we kind of repeat
the mistakes we have made in the past instead of trying to find
new methods by which we can separate out the mistakes that we
have made from the progress we have made in other areas, and
that the university approach by this method would be far more
palatable in the development of foreign policy for the future.
So I am really appreciative of your testimony.
Not all universities are using your approach, obviously.
There are a great number of universities who have regular
courses in international relations, foreign affairs, economics,
agriculture and so on, but it would seem to me that the broad
scope of this bill, or the opportunity of getting new inputs
from each of the university type programs would be helpful in
developing programs for the future.
Do you feel that way? Am I correct in setting forth your
position?
Mr. Tanter. Yes, Senator.
Senator Dominick. We talk about, and I asked Mr. Wilcox
this, the question of a field of foreign relations in terms of
quotations in the bill. Do you think we ought to define that
term or should we leave it broad, as Mr. Wilcox suggested?
Mr. Tanter. I think I agree with Dean Wilcox, that you
should leave the field of foreign affairs as a broad,
undefined kind of domain. I think military security affairs,
for example, constitute a great bulk of foreign affairs, and
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 19
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
that one of the problems-.is that the State Department officer
is not as adequately trained as his military counterpart in
these more systematic methods.
And that the military have in effect taken more and more
advantage of their systematic training in encroaching more and
more into the domain of 'foreign affairs analysis. I could
cite many examples of this with respect to Vietnam data
analysis. But I won't..
Senator Dominick. We can't afford to get into a debate on
that. We would never finish the hearings.
Mr. Tanter. do you feel that the phrase is broad enough
to encompass specific training in agriculture or in communica-
tions or in the Federal Aviation Administration where they are
going to be working overseas?
Mr. Tanter. I think that students who are going to land
grant institutions such as Michigan State, who are going into
agriculture abroad, would have considerable opportunities under
the Foreign Service Corps legislation.
Senator Dominick. You don't think that the term "field
of foreign relations" would be so oriented towards foreign
policy that it would exclude those people who certainly it was
not intended to do so?
Mr. Tanter. I think the concept of foreign relations has
a higher probability of excluding agriculture and environmental
pollution for example than the field of foreign affairs.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1 88
16.
25.
Senator Dominick. So if we were going to change the word,
you would change the word "relations to "affairs"?
Mr. Tanter. Yes.
Senator Dominick. Someone once asked what the difference
was and why the House called it foreign affairs and the SEnate
called it foreign relations. They said it is because of the
age of the respective people. People in the House can have
affairs, but in the Senate, they can only have relations.
The input of a Foreign Service Institute, once again: have
you had a chance to analyze the training programs and the effort.
that they put forth in the way of training to determine whether
or not your new type of ideas are built in with it?
Mr. Tanter. I have only looked at the computer in the
foreign affairs course at the Foreign Service Institute
extensively. I have sent several students to the language
training programs and they have given me feedback on them and
theprograms are quite good, it seems.
It seems to me that the type of methodology that I advocate
is quite compatible with the thrust in the computer in foreign
affairs course that the Foreign Affairs institute has inaugu-
rated, but that course does not have a high prestige within
the Department of State.
Senator Dominick. Do you give us from your experience any
estimate of how much we should allow for each scholarship in
a Corps as it is proposed under this? This includes tuition,
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
room, board, et cetera.
Mr. Tanter. At the graduate level, I suspect something
like a $5,000 a year annual figure would be necessary. That
might not be the figure that you select. But I think that is
about what is necessary. I am not sure of the undergraduate
level.
Senator Dominick. What do you think about changing this
to the junioa.? and senior years for undergraduates as opposed
to a four year basis?
Mr. Tanter. At first thought, I agreed with Dean Wilcox's
position that the students in the first and second years might
not be adequately prepared to know what they wanted to do and
it is best maybe to make them in the third and fourth years.
But I suspect that many students from the poorer communities
might not get past the second year, if such change were made
in the legislation. It seems to me that one of the congressional
intents behind the Foreign Service Corps night be to spread out
the type of people that the Foreign Service attracts. I suspect
that the number of blacks, the number of Puerto Ricans and
Mexican-Americans would go down tremendously if you cut it off
.At the second year.
Senator Dominick. Wouldn't it be possible that they would
have scholarships in other fields and then decide that this was
the field that they wanted to go into in the last two years?
Mr. Tanter. I doubt that, because the domestic scene is
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1 90
growing very rapidly as an area of concentration within the
universities and especially among minority students. My wife
tells me that while I was studying the conflict in Latin
America that the City of Washington was burning down. We
could see the smoke. She asked me how relevant I felt my work
was. So I am under considerable pressure to switch into the
domestic. area. Many of my colleagues are as well.
Senator Dominick. Thank you. I very much appreciate it.
You have been very helpful.
Senator Pell. Thank you very much indeed.
I think this concludes the morning list of witnesses.
The committee will recess until 2:3o this afternoon when
the first witness will be Dr. John Lumley.
(Whereupon, at 12:15 p.m. the subcommittee recessed, to
reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
P ,1 /
Reys fig
Mi J. ton.
1-29-7.0
Senate Sub
on Educations
22
23
AFTER RECESS
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2:30 p.m., Senator Pell,
chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.)
Senator Pell. The Subcommittee on Education will come to
order.
I think there is a witness here substituting for Dr.
Lumley in behalf of the National Education Association.
will she come forward?
STATEMENT OF MRS. MARY CONDON GEREAU, LEGISLATIVE
CONSULTANT, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, ON
BEHALF OF DR. JOHN M. LUMLEY, ASSISTANT EXECUTIVE
SECRETARY, LEGISLATION AND FEDERAL RELATIONS,
NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, D. C.
Mrs. Gereau. Thank you, Senator.
My name is Mary Condon Gereau, and I am substituting for
Dr. Lumley, who was-going to substitute for our president,
George Fischer. We are now down to the third level.
Senator Pell. You have a very brief statement. If you
want to.read it, that will be fine. I don't think it will
be hard'to digest.
Mrs..Gereau. It may be simpler if I read it, Senator.
I `on't think I can brief it much more.
Senator Pell. I wish all statements were. like this.
Mrs. Gereau. I have been doing this for some years.
I could say perhaps before we start that I think one
reason I got this very pleasant duty is that I have been
working with the overseas teachers who are members of our
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
f0
92
association, and I have been in many foreign countries over
a period of time.
In fact, I lived-abroad for two years, so I have met peopl
who worked for the Foreign Service and for the American
Government in other countries .
I thin}: it was because of my personal interest in this
that this was given to me in the structure of our organization.
Mr. Chairman, and members of the subcommittee:
The National Education Association supports S. 939 which
will establish the United States Foreign Service Corps.
We wish to commend the chief sponsor of this legislation
for his persistent concern for improving the educational
opportunity for young people who will be following careers in
foreign service for the Government of the United States.
S. 939 does not establish a foreign service academy but
rather, and wisely, provides for the use of existing programs
in the field of foreign relations offered in many institutions
of higher learning throughout the country.
The method of nominating and selecting persons to
participate in the Foreign Service Corps is fair as well as
competitive.
Perhaps the author might wish to include Guam along with
the Virgin Islands and the Canal Zone as an area from which
participants may be nominated.
It occurs to us that the national interest in the Pacific
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
area might benefit from such inclusion.
We also suggest that consideration be given to providing a
sum based on a per student cost to the institution for the
administrative costs involved in processing the students'
enrollments, and so forth.
A precedent for this is the G.I. bills. This fee, we
suggest, should be not in excess of 90 percent of the actual
cost of such service.
The Administrative Bond provided for in the bill will pay
the tuition and fees of the students selected. The $15 million
authorized for the first year would support 5,000 students at
$3,000 per student.
If all were single persons entitled to $200 per month
stipend, this would leave only $1,000 for tuition and fees
(beyond the $2,000 subsistence for 10 months).
It is reasonable to assume, especially at the graduate
level, that a fair percentage of the students will be married
with dependents.
We believe, therefore, that the authorization figures
are not totally realistic. Tuition in institutions of higher
learning which have good foreign relations programs tends to
be high.
We believe this part of S. 939 should be carefully
reviewed. Either the number of students should be reduced, or
the authorization and appropriation substantially increased to
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
94
cover tuition and fees as well as subsistence. We prefer the
latter alternative.
Again, we commend the chief sponsor of S. 939 for his
genuine concern for improving the expertise of those who serve
the United States Government in the area of foreign relations.
The NEA-Committee on International Relations joins in this
statement of support.
We as a profession are concerned that the image of the
"Ugly American" be abolished. While recognizing that those
presently serving the government in foreign assignments are
on the whole fine, dedicated people, we are also aware that
there is need for improvement here as in all phases of our
society.
We believe that the provision in S. 939 for supplementary
training in languages for the families of potential and
currently employed foreign service personnel is a particularly
fine feature of 'the bill.
The spouse and children of the Foreign Service employee
have much to offer -- and much to gain -- in the field of
international relations.
We urge the committee to approve S. 939, with consideratio
to our comments in this testimony, and we will continue to give
this measure our active support.
Senator Pell. It is a statement of clear-cut support.
We appreciate knowing your views. I will turn any questions
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
over to Senator Dominick.
Senator Dominick. Thank you, Mrs. Gereau. Along with
the chairman, I appreciate your succinctness and certainly
appreciate your support. This will be very helpful.
I might say that the omission of Guam was just an over-
sight.
Mrs. Gereau. We always look out for Guam.
Senator Dominick. I think you are totally right. I know
what our involvement in Asian, affairs is and it would make this
a very good move. I have no hesitation of going along with
that.
Your analysis of $15 million for the authorization for
the first year is my next question.
My own thought in this was that in the first year, no
matter what fiscal year you put it in, you are probably going
to be partway through the school year. You will not really
be able to get this into operation until the second year, when
we have it increased to $30 million.
The need for subsistence, as well as for tuition, seems
to me to be obvious. We will have to do something on that.
But it seemed to me, also, that we are not going to get the
total 5,000 students in tle first year. You will have to set
up procedures. You will have to find out how the examination
systems will work.
There will be a lot of other things so that this will be
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
19
a gradual and growing procedure as I see it now.
would like to ask you about the interest that NEA has
now in international'relations. I think this is something
fairly new, isn't it?
Mrs. Gereau.. No, sir.
Senator Dominick. In international education is what.I
refer to.
Mrs. Gereau. It has gone on for some time but it has'not,
shall we say, be the most advisable activity of our
organization. We have had a Committee on international
Relations for as long as I can remember.
I would say 15 years, at,least. In fact, former
Commissioner of Education Frank Keppel, was at one time chair-
man of that committee.
Their concern is largely related to the improving of
teaching international understanding in the schools. They have
produced some rather widely used materials for teachers in
how to develop good understanding of international affairs and
international relations on the part, particularly, of
elementary and junior high school people.
We have not been, I would say, visibly activein the field
of higher education which is what, of course, your bill is
related to.
We, of course, are interested in the welfare of
the children of American citizens who are attending schools
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
12
17
abroad. There are 175,000 or something like that in the
Department of Defense schools, but there are another 35,000 to
40,000 in other schools around the world who are the children
of American personnel. We are interested in them.
Senator Dominick. What was your role overseas?
Mrs. Gereau. I lived in India for two years.-during the
wat with'the Red Cross, the CBI Theatre. We have discussed
that before.
Senator Dominick. Yes, we have.
Mrs. Gereau. We were China-Burma-India commandoes,.I
guess.
The other activity was as a consultant to the House
Labor and Education Committee, the subcommittee that has toured
the overseas schools and helped with the Department of Defense
situation.
Senator Dominick. During that experience, did you have an
opportunity.to personally observe whether or not the wives
and families of American citizens employed overseas had the
opportunity of learning about the culture and to get real
training in it, the language, anything of this kind?
Mrs. Gereau. Yes, sir. I would have to say I am speaking
now personally and not representing. the policies of the NEA.
Yes, particularly the second time I went with the sub-
committee. I went to Latin America. There we did not have
much to do with the Department of Defense operations, because
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
16
18
19
20
they have very few installations as such.
So we worked almost exclusively with those schools which
are called American International Schools, and to which the
children of American personnel stationed in.various branches
of the government are concerned.
It is my own personal opinion that many of the people
who go abroad isolate themselves from the communities in which
they are serving..They have their own little ghetto, almost.
Senator Dominick. I have just an observation to give
you from the wife of a Foreign Service Officer who was
stationed in Greece, and was told, apparently, at least by
implication, that the wives of people in the embassy there,
and they had a great number of them, were not 'expected and
were not encouraged in any way whatsoever to mingle with people
who were in Athens at that time, or in the neighboring areas,
and were discouraged from learning Greek.
This was most annoying to a number of them who had friends
and who would like to participate in another community other.
than this American ghetto, as you put it.
I think the opportunity afforded by this bill would
provide some training of this kind and would be helpful. That
is why I wanted to get your viewpoint.
Mrs. Gereau. Sir, I personally think it would be, too.
As we said in the statement, a particularly good feature of
the bill is the involvement of the spouse and the children of
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
16
19
the American who is going into Foreign Service, in learning
languages and becoming more aware of the role they can play
to really conduct the most informal and, therefore, perhaps,
the best or good international relations.
Senator Dominick. I sincerely appreciate your statement.
Senator Pell. Thank you very much.
The chair will have to recess the committee. There is a
roll.call vote going on.
(Whereupon, ,a brief recess was taken.)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
100
Senator Pell. The subcommittee will come to order.
Our next witness is our good and faithful Dr. Knoll, Dean
13
14
18
of Faculty, The Monterey Institute of Foreign Studies, Monterey
STATEMENT OF DR. SAMSON B. KNOLL, DEAN OF
FACULTY, THE MONTEREY INSTITUTION OF
FOREIGN STUDIES, MONTEREY, CALIFORNIA
Mr. Knoll. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I understand that my prepared statement will be part of
the record, and I will ad lib, not only on what I have prepared
but since, fortunately, I did not start the proceedings thi
morning, as I almost did by default, I might comment on some
of the earlier comments that were given.
Senator Pell. That will be helpful. Your statement
will be inserted into the record at this point.
(The document referred to follows:)
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
11 1
12
Mr. Knoll. It has been suggested to me that I say
perhaps a little bit more by way of introduction about the
institute I represent. I do so very gladly. Part of it is
in the record.
May I just state here that we are a fairly new,
independent and small college. We were founded in 1955. we
were accredited in 1961. I joined the institute in 1962.
are devoted to the broadest range of foreign studies, and we
are, therefore, very much interested in the bill that was
introduced by Senator Dominick.
As a matter of fact, my personal interest in the bill
goes back some two years when Senator Murphy, of my home
State, drew my attention to it, and a year and a half ago I
had an occasion to discuss it here in Washington with Senator
Dominick.
My own-Interest in foreign affairs goes back a long time.
It goes back to my beginnings as a student. I am a historian
by profession. It became much more pronounced in the 1930's,
when, in 1935, I came to Senator Dominick's home State. and
started my teaching career at the University of Colorado for
two years, and one year at the State College at Greeley.
Since I came from Europe, and everywody who comes from
Europe presumably is an expert in foreign affairs, I was at the
tender age of 23 put on the speech circuit in more towns in
Colorado than I can remember.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
102
I remember the agony that I had in trying to awaken in
the people to whom I spoke a real concern for foreign affairs.
This, by the way,-not only was true of the adults whom-I
talked to; it was unfortunately also true of many of the
students.
It was very difficult to convince, in those years,
students or teachers, or the public at large, of the necessity
for doing something in our foreign relations in order to
prevent another World War from breaking out.
It ook another war and the aftermath to change the public
at large, and I think to change the attitude of the students.
While I regret many of the excesses that have occurred
on the campuses of our country, I think there is one good
thing: At least, they are no longer interested in swallowing
goldfish or in pantie raids as they were in the days of our
youth.
I might parenthetically add here something concerning the
remark you, Mr..Chairman, made about what do we do with the
demonstrators who enroll in the Foreign Service Corps, or
Foreign Service Corps students who become demonstrators. 'I
don?t think they will.
one of the major concerns that these students have these
days, it seems to me, is the question of peace. A Foreign
Service Corps, almost by definition, would be a very potent
force for peace.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
13
1
I think this would obviate, almost totally, any
2
possibility of this kind of demonstration. My own institute
3
is a case in point.
19
We have had none of that at all. Partly, of course, that
is due to the fact that we are and will remain small and,
therefore, we can always talk to our students.
I have a further series of events in my own career that
sharpened my interest in the foreign affairs of this country.
That is that during the war I was a member, and I might say
a rather proud member, of the Psychological Warfare Combat
Team of the lst Army out in the field. The "Ugly American" did
not only exist in the Foreign Service -- and, incidentally,
my president, Ambassador Freeman, prefers the words "The
Obvious American", which I think is perhaps better, but there
certainly was the ugly psychological warrior, the person who
had no training, no empathy for the person whom he was
supposed to propagandize.
I think one of the essential links between psychological
warefare and diplomacy is, perhaps, the subtle form of
propaganda that both imply.
So for many reasons I am interested in the bill personally
and, of course, I am also interested in the bill as a
representative of my institute.
Our institutional interest in the Foreign Service was, of
course, greatly enhanced when Ambassador Freeman became our
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
19
104
president almost exactly a year ago. I am sure that you are
aware of his career. He is one of the country's leading
career diplomats who in the 30 years of his Foreign Service
saw service in China, in Europe, and in Latin America.
was most recently Ambassador to Mexico.
Ambassador Freeman was our unanimous choice for president
three years ago and finally-was able to:join us a year ago.
while we have not officially, of course, as we could not,
established any direct ties to the Department of State, our
unofficial contacts have undoubtedly improved, and our
orientation is much more clearly oriented towards foreign
service than it has ever been before.
In fact, only for the last two years have we had
graduates who have applied for positions in the Foreign
Service, and those who have applied have been accepted. One
was just made a career Foreign Service officer and we are very
proud of that.
There are a number of reasons why Ambassador Freeman and
I personally, and as representatives of our institute, are
wholeheartedly in favor of the bill. Perhaps, number one
should be that it does create the awareness of which one of the
witnesses spoke this morning, that has helped to increase
the awareness of the public at large of the importance of the
Foreign Service to our country these days.
But there are two principal reasons why we are in favor
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
105
of the bill.
Number one, that it proposes to begin the special training
of future Foreign Service officers early. Again, by Foreign
Service, I would understand as broad a definition as possible.
We use the term "training'for service abroad" in part
of our curriculum which might be a good way to encompass all
the various aspects of serving one's country or a private
corporation abroad.
The second principle in the bill which we support is
that in addition to beginning specialized training early, it
proposes to support the student who engages in financially.
Both, we feel, are really indispensable. There is no
reason why the Foreign Service, which has become more and more
16
important in our day, should be a stepchild behind other
professions, why the Armed services should start the training
of their officer corps early in college, and as important a
branch as.the Foreign Service in all its ramifications should
not.
With regard to the 'financial support, we feel that this
is of utmost importance, particularly in our days when the
cost of education, both to the student and to the institution
has skyrocketed and continues to skyrocket, and also in view
of the fact that it has been shown in the success of various
parts of the National Defense Education Act that financial
support for-study is a very important incentive in attracting
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
students to areas of governmental and private activity
where manpower is needed.
We welcome very much the provision in the bill which
provides support for dependents. We think this is absolutely
crucial.
I could tell you any numer of instances, both certainly
from events that Ambassador Freeman has told me,.which prove
that the wife, incidentally, in our opinion also, the
children, of the American representative abroad, played a
vital role in the success of the mission, whatever that mission
may be.
Ambassador Freeman's wife, Mrs. Freeman, made it a point
wherever her husband went and she accompanied him, to learn
the language of the country and to engage in activities of
both social welfare and social welfare activities.
He has in his house in the Carmel Valley a screen with at
least 20, at least, testimonials, I would judge one-third of
them testimonials to Mrs. Freeman, by grateful Colombians
and Mexicans for what she has done.
With respect to the children, may I indulge in one story
told me by. the Chief of Arthur Anderson Company, the famous
accounting firm.
They sent a young couple to Belgium, including the
children. The two children went to a Belgium high school.
After two years they graduated from that high school as the
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
17 1
24 1
best students in that-school, competing with the Belgian
children.
You couldn't find better ambassadors for American
education and America than those two children.
So we are very strongly in support of the provision
which gives dependency allowance and which also makes it.
possible for husbands and wives to take this training. In
fact, in our own training progarm which we have instituted
largely for the private sector, which we call"training for
service abroad," we?recommend that wives and children take the
training along with the husbands.
So far we have had, I think, only three bachelors. We
are quite convinced that what this morning was characterized
as post-training is not sufficient.
The third reason why we are wholeheartedly in favor of
the law is that it provides that this training be given at
colleges and universities throughout the country.
.Ambassador Freeman believes that this is absolutely vital.
He is very much in favor of that section of the bill which
disclaims the establishment of a foreign service academy,
though he, himself, has taken many courses in the Foreign
Service Institute.
He is very much aware of the work that it can do and of
its accomplishments, but he is also very much aware that the
training that is given at schools throughout the country, where
pproved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
108
you have a constnat influx of new ideas and a fresh approach
to the training in foreign relations, or the training of a
future Foreign Service officer, that that eventually will
benefit the Foreign Service.
Senator Dominick. May I interrupt at that point?
Mr. Knoll. Yes.
Senator Dominick. Do I understand from this that you
think that the Foreign Service Institute should probably stay
as it now is formulated and rot be put under the same Board of
Regents as this United States Foreign Service Corps?
Mr. Knoll. I think that would be Ambassador Freeman?s
opinion. He believes very much thatone of the important
functions that the Foreign Service Institute can render is, of
course, to provide in-service training, since it is doubtful,
at least for a while, that all of the future Foreign Service
officers will have gone through the Foreign Service Corps.
Also, there is the problem of training for reassignments.
In other words,. he has taken reassignment training when
he was transferred, let us say, from China to another country.
He would be in favor of leaving that intact and having the
Foreign Service Corps be the basic professional training.
Incidentally, on the name of the Corps, if it is true
that some people will object. to it because "Corps" gives the
idea of rigidity, it could be Foreign Service Fellows, Foreign
Service Fellowships, or something along that line, which might
~Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
12
14.
16
avpid that impression.
Senator Dominick. Foreign Service talent search.
Mr. Knoll. That brings up a point to which I will allude
later.
Anyhow, he would be very much in disfavor of creating
one Foreign Service Academy with institutionalized vested
interested. Related to this,is, in my opinion, the need to
give the greatest possible latitutde to the curricula provided
through the participating colleges and universities.
I think this is an absolute must if the freshness of
approaches be a constant factor in such training, and that,
therefore, the Board of Trustees that is to.be
established should provide guidelines, and no definite
cirriculum.
The Board of Trustees should encourage experimentation
in teaching as long as the basis guidelines are observed.
I would think that the Board of Trustees would give very
serious consideration to appointing either to the Board or to
appointing as a committee to work out the guidelines for the
several curricula career diplomats of proven worth and
experience, because they are the ones who have been out in
the field, who can do a great deal of work. to assist the
colleges in working out acceptable curricula:
The Department of State has, of course, the diplomatic
residents, and perhaps on a systematic basis that could be
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
20
incorporated into the proposed foreign Service Corps.
A point that we stress, that we hope Senator
Dominick as the author of the bill, and this,committee, will
consider is institutional support.
Obviously, I am speaking here, perhaps, with a certain
amount of self-interest, but hopefully of enlightened self-
interest.
Unless some institutional support is provided, as is
done under some titles of the National Defense Education Act,
the small, independent college, such as ours, would almost
be put out of competition.
We feel that the small, independent college has played
and will continue to play an absolute vital role in training
this country's leaders.
We simply will not grow, I think, beyond 500 or 700
students. We don't believe that true excellence and training
can be provided at today's modern universities.
Since, as was pointed out this morning, foundations
are turning more and more to the domestic scene and, therefore,
these programs must, some way or another, find the necessary
funds, I think Federal institutional support will be very
vital.
The future of the Foreign Service Institute has already
been discussed, so I will not go into that.
May I address myself to a point raised this morning,
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
21 1
10
perhaps anticipating questions that Senator Dominick might
have. That is the question: Should the financial assistance
be provided for four or two years?
I should suggest the greatest possible flexibility, not
only in view of what was said this morning, that providing
support only for two years might, of course, disadvantage the
disadvantaged more than they are already, but also that while
it is true that so many of our students really do not know
before their junior year where they want to go, there are
significant exceptions.
I 'also believe that the success of the advanced. placement
program in our high schools has given a number of students now
a better professional outlook at the end of their high school
career than 30 years ago or 35 years ago when I started
teaching in this country.
So flexibility, I think, would be what we would advocate
in the question of financing for two or four years.
Senator Dominick. In other words, to leave this open so
that if a youngster decided that this was his future, whether
it be in agriculture, economics or in foreign service as such,
he would have the opportunity, then, of getting a scholarship
to go all the way through.
If he didn't have that, he might shift into another field
where he had no economic support.
Mr. Knoll. That is correct.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
112
Senator Dominick. I think that is a good thought.
Mr. Knoll. While I therefore agree, at least in part,
with a previous witness, Dr. Tanter, I am not sure that I
agree with the suggestion he made this morning that the bulk
of the training be in the more advanced techniques.
I like to think that we who are historians like to think
that by definition we are humanists. Some people think we are
3 social scientists, but I don't.
9 1 do have a certain amount of fear of the machine, but
10 this is not decisive. I think what the chairman brought out
11 this morning is much more important. There are many situation
12 in the face-to-face contact where the computer is not going to
13 be any help.
14 You will have to decide them on the basis of intuition.
15 You have to decide them on the basis of having a certain
16 amount of flexibility in your movements, and on that none of
17 the advanced techniques can help us.
18 Whether or not there is a way of training somebody's
19 intuition I will have to leave to the psychologist.
20 1 have two more points. One is that in selecting. the
21 Educators that are to be appointed to the Board of Trustees,
should hope that there will be a great latitude. We hope
that they will not be chosen solely on the basis of having
the most publications or being the most famous names. We hope
that considerable attention will be given to those who are
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
15
16
17
113
teachers and can impart this important knowledge to their
students best.
The second point was the one I already raised about
demonstrations. Therefore, this could be the end of my formal
testimony and I will be ready to answer any questions you
might have.
Senator Pell. One concern that I have is the thought
that the Foreign Service should be drawn from as broad a
section as possible.
I would be worried that there would be sort of elite
corps within those working for the government abroad made tip
of those who, as in the Navy, if you went to Annapolis you
wear a ring, and somehow or another you notice the Admirals
wear that ring.
I would be worried that somehow or another that those who
got to the top of the Foreign Service ladder after a period
of time will have tohave started off in this Corps, which would
mean we would lose a good many people.
What would be your view about that?
Mr. Knoll. Our view would be that the fact that the
service corps is supposed to be trained at colleges throughout
the country would obviate that at least to the greatest
extent possible.
This is, of course, one of the objections that Ambassador
Freeman has to a Foreign Service Academy.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
24 1
12
114
There is the question of the selection process, perhaps,
which would be very much more important in this respect. We
should hope that the sole criterion for selection is
aptitude, and not only the passing of certain examinations,
but some form of test which can show whether the candidate has
the means of acquiring that kind of knowledge that will enable
him to move, and that.kind of empathy that can enable him to
move, among other people. This can be done.
we are doing it in a very minor way in our program where
Ambassador Freeman, in his experience, writes confidential
reports tothe employer, where he states whether or not he
thinks the candidate is capable of doing a certain thing.
So I think that would be the best safeguard against
.creating any leak.
Senator Pell. Thank you.
Senator Dominick.
Senator Dominick. I was concerned for many years about
the fact that we were creating any leak with the emphasis
on many of the Ivy League schools on people coming into the
Foreign Service Corps.
I can say this because I am an Ivy League graduate and
so is the chairman.
I did some analysis of this over a period of time and
it looks now as if there is a broader representation than
there used to be.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
115
It would seem to me that drawing these people from
diverse. universities with different methods of training and
throughout the Nation would further dilute, any influence of
that kind which might be present at the present time.
Would you think this is true?
Mr. Knoll. Yes, I certainly would.
By the way, I fully agree with you. I not only started
out in Colorado, but I volunteered for the mountain troops,
although I was pulled out early then and went overseas.
I remember my first encounter with one of my fellow
recruits who was from Yale, and who was very surprised when
X, with my background -- I had started at the University of
Berlin, had gone to the Sorbonne, and then had gone to
England -- when I told him that there wasn't anything that
Yale hadn't taught me that I couldn't get at Colorado
University.
Personally, I don't believe that the elites in terms of
learning really exist. The illusion may exist.
Secondly# the greatest diversity would make that
impossible.
Senator Dominick. Have the government agencies that.
now exist here been contracting with your institution for
training purposes at all?
Mr. Knoll. Not on any formal basis yet, although we have
had one inquiry from the Department of Commerce.
20
21
22
23
24
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
116
16
17
As I indicated, the Foreign Service has taken our
graduates. Apparently they do very well. But no formal
contracts exist of that nature yet, no.
Senator Dominick. What do you think in your judgment
is the relative balance insofar as need is concerned_.?between
scholarship aid for this purpose and perhaps direct assistance
to colleges and universities conducting a program?
Mr. Knoll. It would be hard for me to give you any exact
proportion there. I think both of them are necessary. Both
should probably be based on need.
In other words, on the availability of resources to the
college. And on the need of the students for the fellowship.
I don't know whether it is possible to draft a law which
provides that anybody whose parents are above a certain income
level may be accepted into the Corps but would have to pay
his own tuition.
I don't know whether that would be possible. But the
element of need should, I think, be given great consideration.
1 wouldn't be able to give any proportion, however.
Senator Dominick. One of your basic principles in
support of this bill is the fact that you think the people
may take pre-employment experience and training as opposed
to post-employment experience and training?
Mr. Knoll. Decidedly, not only in my own view but in
the view of Ambassador Freeman. I can tell you some hair-
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 15
20
'^ 22
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
raising stories which he has seen and which I saw in the war
in psychological warfare which would prove that.
Senator Dominick. Your acquaintance. with Colorado is
certainly refreshing, as far as I am concerned. I have found
that people by and large in the State at this point are
extremely interested in foreign affairs and what is happening,
and the involvement of our State and our country.
I suppose it is because of the tremendous level of
experience that people got in World War II and in all the
crises we have had since then, Korea, Vietnam; people who
served over in Europe and so on.
So they are very aware at this point, I think, of the
problems we have. I congratulate you on your work in alerting
people, and I sincerely appreciate your support of the bill.
Mr. Knoll. Thank you, sir.
Senator Pell. Thank you very much.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
17
18
Our next witness is Mr. Parker Hart.
STATEMENT OF PARKER HART, PRESIDENT, MIDDLE
EAST INSTITUTE, WASHINGTON, D.C. (FORMER
DIRECTOR, FOREIGN SERVICE INSTITUTE)
Senator Pell. I gather you have no prepared text, but
you wish to comment.for.a few moments on the bill proposed.
Mr. Hart. Yes, Senator. I have no prepared text because
there was not sufficient time.
Senator, I have looked at this bill once before, and
looking at it again in the last couple of days I find there
perhaps have been a few minor changes since the earlier text
which I saw sometime ago, but I am not 100 percent certain
since I am not able. to make a direct comparison.
Now that I am out of the government, I do have some
ideas with respect to this bill. I would like to start by
saying that, in general, I support the bill, particular
because the Foreign Service does not have, at the present time,
a real constituency in the United States.
Foreign Service has come a long way in the 31-1/2 years
7 spent in it from very small beginnings, but I do feel that it
needs to extend its roots more consciously into our
educational system than it has ever done in the past.
As I believe Senator Dominick just pointed out, research
has developed that it is no longer an Ivy League-fed institutio
That is certainly the case.
In fact, I believe the largest single State contributing
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
29 t
91
19
119
Foreign Service personnel is California, at least at the office
level.
The fact is that it has been a question of taking what
we could get, that came before the Board of Examiners for many
years, without any particular, conscious effort that'I am
aware of to feed back into our higher education institutions
t
criteria which they could use to educate candidates for the
Foreign Service.
We let the institutions judge for themselves whether they
were interested enough to develop courses which would prepare
people for foreign service, and in a few cases they have
made a conscious effort.
In many other cases, I think they have not.
This, of course, is part of the diversity of our higher
educational pattern. But at the same time, I am impressed by
the fact that in my time in service the demands upon an officer
have become far more variegated, involving much deeper
knowledge of specialized subjects than any of us who have
contemplated back in 1938 when I was commissioned.
Foreign Service officers, of course, one group that we
are speaking about here, and we are talking about the entire
.foreign affairs community, as I understand from the bill,
whether you are serving in the USIA, whether you are serving
in AID, or other branches of the government as a civilian.
I should point out in this connection that we and the
~Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
12
14,
120
military are very mixed up together. We are doing a lot of
training with them. They are attending some of our schools.
They attend the Foreign Service Institute.
They are enthusiastic members of the National Inter-
departmental Seminar, for example. A few of them are very
enthusiastic members of the Senior Seminar on Foreign Policy,
which is our highest course in the Foreign Service Institute.
We are mixing the services increasingly. We send our
people to their schools.
I have been down to Fort Bragg and helped them with some
of their considerations for a new school for MAG officers,
military attaches. I have spoken, since I retired from the
government, to a number of military schools where they are
actively engaged in trying to develop courses which train
the kind of military man who is able to go into more than a
attache jobs, but political, economic and analytical jobs,
and handle himself well alongside of highly trained civilians.
The foreign affairs community is a very large community
today.as I look at it. This addresses itself, as I under-
stand it, to the civilian sector, and would constitute a course
which would really begin when a man is selected after
application to enter special study at government expense at
the time he leaves high school, and could continue through
college and into graduate work.
It also addresses itself to people already in the
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
12.
government who want specialized training at government expense
for foreign affairs service in one, of the many branches.
This, to me, is a very good aspect-of the project,
because I do feel that it would generate a lot more talent,
consciously trained with a sense of. obligation than we
probably ever.had in the past.
We talk about elites. I wish to say I wish they were all
elites. That is to say those who serve in foreign affairs
should be in the elite of our population.
I can understand the reluctance to have an elite within.
an elite, or people who think they are privileged characters.
We should draw from the very best we can get and train them
as well as we can.
The bill sets. up one or two things I am notttoo clear
about. One is how it would function rather than what its
purposes are of the Board of Trustees.
The purpose of the Board of Trustees seems clear but I
am not quite certain myself how it would operate. It seems to
me it would require a fairly extensive staff, more than is
provided for in the bill at present.
To undertake to draft ground rules for education, for
examination processes, to handle the finances of so many
thousand applicants would seem to me require quite a lot of
help. Either you have to set that up and finance that in the
project, itself, or you have to draw on the resources of some
pproved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
11
12
25
existing institution, especially equipped to do that.
Would you, for example, draw on the Foreign Service
Institute since it would be placed under the Board of Trustees
for purposes of planning and training?
Would you draw on the Board of Examiners of the Foreign
Service for purposes of screening?
These are comments of mine that are really in the nature
of questions. because I am not certain, from reading the
bill, for example, whether the Board of Trustees would screen
all people through its mechanics who would come into foreign
affairs service, thereby limiting recruitees into the service
to the people who had passed through its screening process or
through its educational process, or whether it would take them
from the country at large and screen them.
In other words, would pepole coming into foreign affairs,
service be confined to those who had passed through this
process in the Corps, or would they come from everywhere?
Senator Dominick. I will say in connection with that, Mr.
Hart, that our analysis would indicate that there are far
more people coming into the Foreign Service in one way or
another than would be provided by this particular service
corps, at least for a long period of time, and eventually you
might get the bulk of replacements coming through this. But
that does not solve the question of staff and how we do the
screening and so on.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
13
22
123
What would be your recommendation on that? Should we
work through the Foreign Service Institute or.should we set
up a larger staff which would be independent of them?
Mr. Hart. I would think it would be to the, advantage
of the Board to operate as much as possible with the
experienced personnel already on hand rather than have to go out
and really train perhaps for some time a brand-new staff.
For example, if the Foreign Service Institute is placed
under the Board of Trustees, it has within it a permanent
staff, but it also has in key positions people who are-on
rotation from the Foreign Service who are assigned to direct
course. Some supplementation of their work could be
accomplished by bringing in.a few more people for planning
purposes, conscious planning., to assist the Board of Trustees,
and then utilize the talents which you already have there,
which is pretty carefully selected.
We have some very good men in FSI.
Senator Dominick. i didn't mean to interrupt, but I
wanted to make that one point clear.
Mr. Hart. My other question was whether,, after you
passed through the Corps training process, do you contemplate
a selection process for each government agency involved in
foreign affairs, or do you contemplate a standard examination
type of procedure, and would that examination be written and
oral; would it be a national examination, or would it be an
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
124
34 1 11 examination for each agency?
13
39
20
21
The requirements of each agency do have common
denominators., Certainly they have that. But they also have
very diverse requirements.
If you are talking about the agricultural service, the
interests of the Department of Commerce, of course, and AID,
or the Department of State, just to take a few, you can see
how diverse they are, or civilians in the Department of Defense
serving abroad.
From reading the bill, I am not sure that I see just where
this is provided for.
Senator Dominick. It was intended in the bill that the
Regents or the Board of Trustees would set up the requirements
on that, and presumably they would have examinations that
might differ in some respect for various agencies.
Mr. Hart. You would retain, as I understand it, the
Foreign Service Officer Corps.
Senator Dominick. Yes.
Mr. Bart. I'think we have been moving for some years
into the situation in which ambassadors are drawn from all
agencies of the government, as well as traditionally, certain
number from private life.
That process could be sharpened up by a cohesive plan
for training and for guidance of the careers of people
interchangeably between different agencies of the government,
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
125
moving between AID, for example, and State.
It could be very good for a lot of Foreign Service
officers to have more of this type of experience, and a good
thing for the AID people also to have strictly State Department
type of assignments from time to time.
This you can accomplish best if you start early and train
people for flexible careers. I would hope that any proposal
of implementation of this bill would take that into account,
that you have to start with a young man. You can direct his
efforts toward a variety of different types of service in the
field of foreign affairs.
One question that I have is about the status of the
Foreign Service Institute being placed under the Board of
Trustees.
I would like to say that I feel that the Foreign Service
Institute has already become an interagency organization of
the government had has far gone beyond the position. of a mere
training establishment for the Foreign Service which it was
set out to be by the bill in 1946.
About half of the work of the Institute is done for other
agencies of government. They pay a good share of the costs.
I believe that while all training for foreign affairs should
:be under the general policy direction of the Secretary of
State, because I don't believe in the delusion of the
,responsibilities of the Secretary of State in the field of
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
36 1
12
14
19
126,
foreign affairs but I believe in strengthening them, this
particular organization, I think, has earned its way by
experience and by the dynamics of interagency activity in
becoming an organization which should be recognized for what
it is, an interagency training establishment. It is more
than just training. It is an interagency higher educational
establishment.
I would like to see it constituted as the National
Institute for Foreign Affairs and so-called. This, of course,
could still place it under a Board of Trustees of this kind.
There is no reason why it couldn't be.
I would hope that the Secretary's position on that
Board would be such that he would have the strongest voice in
its deliberations because it is his voice which is going to
count for the most in terms of training in general foreign
affairs service.
The other members of the Board will have great weight,
but his views should have the greatest weight.
These are my preliminary thoughts on the subject,
gentlemen, and I would be glad to try to answer any questions
if I can.
Senator Dominick. I have just a couple.
I gather from what you are saying that the:Foreign Service
Institute, as such, could fit under this Board of Trustees, and
perhaps the. Secretary of State designated as the directing head
pproved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
24
of that National Affairs Institute?
Mr. Hart. Yes.
Senator Dominick. Alternatively, if we left it the way
it is now, which is under State, do you think that this would
solve that interaction problem?
In other words, do you think it ought to be moved into
the new Board of Trustees, or do you think it should be left
the way it is?
Mr. Hart. I do not feel that it should be left the way
it is. I feel that it has outgrown the position of being
just another part of the Department of State.
When you look on the schedule of various subdivisions
of the Department of State, you find this one pretty well down
toward the bottom of the listing, after the various operational
bureaus, and the position of director, itself, should be
upgraded in response to the interagency role it has long since
been playing.
I would give it a semi-autonomous status, if I had my
way, and raise it to the level of eminence of a national
institution for all foreign affairs studies and not just for
the training of foreign service personnel, at which other
agency people are admitted by negotiation, which has been the
case.
You negotiate so many slots, they pay their share, and we
take them as we can. I think it has suffered somewhat in
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
24
128
recent years from this position, and it has, in fact, earned
and merits a new look as a new body.
It is, in many ways, a trail-blazer for many of the
techniques of foreign affairs study. We use the universities,
as pointed out here, from the Foreign Service Institute, but we
could do a lot more than has been done to galvanize educational
institutions around the country to serve the purposes of
foreign affairs study, pre- and in-training study better than
they have done.
Senator Pell. The Chair must interpolate I haven't any
doubts about having serious studies done under direct
government auspices. This was the reason I originally
opposed the Foreign Service Academy.
I think what the institute does is direct its training
to carry out techniques in the field. But once you have
the government involved in serious studies, it is an
anomaly, because the government cannot really be objective.
For that reason, I would not want to see this become an
institution with all the professors receiving the green
government check.
The problem we have now is to get professors to stay more
than a year at the National War College. While I agree with
many of your ideas, I do not agree with your thought that the
institute should be made an institution of learning or study.
I am not sure that that should really be done under
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
129
government auspices, but should be done under private auspices.
Mr. Hart. I see your point, but the Foreign Service
Institute is that now. The Foreign Service Institute should
not be giving degrees, I agree. It could do as the War
Colleges do. When you are taking a course, you could
ll
simultaneously arrange that curriculum so that you get a Masterl
degree at the. end of-the year.
It is being done at the industrial college. I happen to
be on the Board of Advisors of that. I think that there is
no substitute for the university system inherent in what I am
saying.
But we have a problem,if we consider training in the.
high sense that I am considering it. In using the word
"training," I don't mean just training in the techniques of how
to do a job.
We have, at the Foreign-Service Institute, a 22-week
course in economics which is the equivalent of four years
of undergraduate economics, made possible simply by
accelerated training techniques, by the fact that the officers
who are taking it are taking nothing else but economics, and
they are mature.
They accomplish so much that they rate on a national
system of evaluation, which is done by Princeton University
.quite objectively, 100 to 200 points higher than the national
average regularly.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
The reason this was done was not because of anything
other than that:you can't get this four years taken out of a
man's career to go to the university and take it at leisure.
You have to do it in a hurry.
Senator Pell. What I am driving at is your graduates
should not be advocating the various varieties of economics,
be it Adam Smith, be it King or Karl Marx. They are going
through a government school.
Mr. Hart. I think nonconformity is the rule at FSI.
For example, they have very hot debates over the type of
political science that is taught.
Senator Pell. I think there would be the devil to pay
if the taxpayers' money was used to graduate, say, Marx
economists, or even in these more advanced social days
Adam Smith.
Mr. Hart. I think anyone who is going to do his work
in economics is going to read them all.
But as far as the awarding of degrees is concerned, I
don't think that is the institute's job. The institute can
galvanize a lot of things in rather tradition-bound
university circles and they, in turn, can awaken the institute.
It is not a super university or university which I am
suggesting-but, rather, a recognized national institute for
very definite but constantly changing purposes.
Senator Dominick. We have a National Institute of Mental
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
14
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Health and a National Institute of a. lot of other things, but
we don't have a Natiaxial Institute of International Affairs.
I don't know whether this is the type of thing you are
101
12
19
21
thinking of. It would create the attention for the need of
expanding other institutions around the country for foreign
affairs.
This is the type of institution I am referring to as
opposed to a degree-granting institution. Is that what you
have in mind?
Mr. Hart. Yes.
Senator Dominick. The thing that I noticed from those
who say that the Foreign Service Institute can take care of
their problems at the moment is in the enrollments of the
Foreign Service Institute which you were kind enough to provide
for fiscal year 1968.
Fifty-seven percent of the enrollment involved language
training, and nine percent of the enrollment came from other
agencies besides State, AID, USIA and Defense.
So the other agencies, really, are a small portion of
the training that is,being given. The training is good, but
there are only a small portion who are able to be the
recipients.
That is why it seemed to me that getting pre-employment
training as opposed to post-employment training might be very
fruitful.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
12
12,
I gather this is what you support.
Mr. Hart. Yes, Senator, and also there is a tremendous
proliferation of service schools studying in the field of
foreign affairs.
My impression is this is rather expensive in the long run,
although I can see the utility of it right now. They have
to move fast to get some of their men trained.
One of the things that I would hope a National Institute
of Foreign Affairs could do would be to arrest this great
proliferation to some degree and focus training more in one
place with maximum liaison with our universities.
In fact, I feel that the director himself should be
a man drawn from academic life, an eminent man from academic
life, not a person drawn out of the Foreign Service.
There are those who disagree with me on this, but this is
my strong feeling. A man drawn from high academic
experience, eminence, with a keen and high interest in foreign
affairs, can bring into the institute a relationship with
our universities and the creative currents that are moving
in them, in a way in which a Foreign Service officer on
routine assignment could never do, no matter how good he is.
I feel there should be a lot more than a War College
situation where you assign a lieutenant general to head up
the institute for a few years, two or three.
Senator Dominick. Thank you very much.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Senator Pell. Thank you, Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart. Thank you.
10
13
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
44 1
2
3
13
19
Senator Pell.. The next witness will be Dr. George
Allen, President, Diplomatic and Consular Officers, Inc.,
Washington, D. C.
STATEMENT OF'HON. GEORGE ALLEN, PRESIDENT,
DIPLOMATIC-,AND CONSULAR OFFICERS, INC.,
WASHINGTON, D. C. (FORMER DIRECTOR, FOREIGN
SERVICE INSTITUTE)
Mr. Allen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am George V. Allen, Foreign Service Officer, Retired.
My last assignment was as Director of the Foreign Service
Institute for three years, until last November.
Mr. Chairman,- I appear in very strong support of this
bill. That doesn't mean to say that there aren't very honest
differences of views on a variety of points that are involved,
and in some cases I would have to say in all honesty that
I see pros and cons, and usually I come down on the pro side.
It might be 55 or 60 percent, but the election is
won by the pros, so far as I am concerned.
I would take the bill as it is, if I had to decide yes
or no.
There are certain parts of it that I might prefer, as all
of us would, to have our own ideas put into, but if I had the
choice of yes or no, I would just take the bill.
I must say I have given it a lot of thought.
Basically, the reason I welcomed the bill when Senator
Dominick first introduced it, was that we have seen so many
bills come before the Congress year after year for the
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
135
establishment of a Foreign Service Academy, and these bills
have a good deal of appeal.
A man can point out that swe spend so many billions of
dollars to train people to fight wars. Why shouldn't the
government be in the training field to develop people who can
try to avoid wars and make peaceful adjustments between nations
in international affairs?
It makes a very strong appeal.
On the other hand, there are overriding objections, in
my opinion, very definitely, to a foreign affairs academy at
the undergraduate level.
First and foremost, they are that the Foreign Service is
rather inclined, and I speak here particularly of the career
Foreign Service of the State Department, but to some extent,
as other careers in foreign affairs get more and more
established, they take on more and more the aspects of a sort
of a closed corporation, a cliquish, clanish group, as they
are often accused, and with some justification, even though
they represent 500 different universities in their back-
ground.
Suppose you took all of these young men at the age of
18 and put them in the same institution, like West Point or
Annapolis, and trained them all four years in the same school
and then for whatever graduate work they were going to do,
and then went into the Foreign Service?
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
136
You would ahve a cliquish organization so thick that you
couldn't cut it with a knife. It would be very bad. It is
much better that the 3,500 officers'in the Foreign Service
today do represent 500 American colleges and universities.
Incidentally, this-subject came up this morning of
the Ivy League schools. You might be interested to know I saw
a study just yesterday. I happen at the moment to be associate
with George Washington University here in Washington. Of the
3,500 Foreign Service officers, and I am limiting that to
FSOs, some 700 have attended George Washington University,
more than any other university of the 500 that they represent.
About 740 or 750 attended George Washington University. About
630 attended Harvard, which comes next.
This obviously means that some of them attended evening
classes at George Washington to get their degrees, but it is
,a curiosity.
The basic training of Foreign Service officers should be
through the established institutions of the United States.
I am convinced of that. There is too much tendency already
on the part of people to think that the Foreign
Service officers no longer represent the United States.
They live too long abroad or they have taken on this
coloration or that coloration.
It is protection for the Government of the United States,
the Congress, and the Foreign Service, itself, to have them
~Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
12
137
most broadly representative of the Nation rather than being
any restrictive group.
I am astonished at the number of bills that are still
introduced to create, I would say, a monster, in my opinion,
as I have described it. That is, an undergraduate academy
strictly for the Foreign Service.
You gentlemen undoubtedly know that the reason'West Point
was established was as recommended by President George
Washington. lie didn't see it actually formed while he was
President, but he pointed out that there were not private
institutions in the United States that specialized in training
to go into the U. S. Army. Such institutions didn't exist.
Consequently, if you were going to have one, the
government had to create one. That was the reason for the
creation of West Point and later Annapolis.
But such institutions do exist for the very adequate
training of Foreign Service people.
As I mentioned, 500 institutions are represented. So
there is not the same need or call for an academy, in my
opinion.
However, the other part of this appeal for training people
in'Foreign Service is still absolutely valid that is advanced
on behalf of an academy.
That is that the Federal Government of the United States
should make more strenuous efforts to provide the best possible
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
18
138
personnel for the family of foreign affairs for the United
States in this period. when our responsibilities are so
tremendous.
How can this be done? I am frank to say that I was at
my own wits end in trying to answer these, to write the State
Department comments on the bills that were sent up from the
Congress, which found their way to my desk often, to draft
for the Secretary of State his comments on this or that bill
because I did appreciate the basic point that the government
ought to be doing more.
That is why I welcome so much Senator Dominick's bill, and
I took the liberty myself, while I was in the government, of
telephoning him to say so. I found I was a little excessive
in that, that perhaps I should have gone through channels a
little more and found out what the official line was before I
expressed myself.
But I am glad that I am now in a position to express
myself very freely and openly in support of it.
Certain aspects of the measure, it seems tome, should be
commented upon.
Ambassador Hart was just speaking about the location of
the Foreign Service Institute. I am frankly of two minds on
that subject, trying to be as objective as I possibly can be.
There are some arguments for it and some against it, it seems
to me.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
49 1
9
10
139
To begin with, the arguments against it. For one thing,
I must say in reading your bill, sir, Section 1211, headed
"Continuation of the Foreign Service Institute," merely changes
the direction of it from the Secretary of State to the Board.
It looks tome as if it is a little stuck in. I don't
quite follow the flow ofthe main purpose of the bill of
establishing the Foreign Service Corps. Perhaps you can
enlighten me.
But just as one person looking at it, it struck me when
I first read it as if you were saying suppose you were setting
up the ROTC for the Army, and you suddenly said that the
Naval War College in Newport, the National War College, and
so forth, shall come under the same Board that is going to
run the ROTC.
I would raise my eyebrows and say, "Why? How does that
follow? What connection is there?"
On the ether hand, I agree fully with Ambassador Hart
in the idea that the Foreign Service Institute is a little
too closely tied to the Department of State. Other agencies
which use it feel a little as if they are going to a foreign
institution when they go from AID, USIA, Interior or Treasury
over to the State Department's training institute.
It would be better if we could get over that. This is
one way of doing it. Put it under a Board. Whether it be
the same Board that runs the Foreign Service Corps perhaps an
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
50
140
argument could be made. Avoid proliferation. And training
is a continuing process.
I haven't heard it brought out as clearly here and this
morning as it should be, but.I think there are two separate
things. One is training to help people get into the foreign
affairs community, and the other is training after you get in.
The Foreign Service Institute, as you know, of course,
only trains people after they are in the field of foreign
affairs.
When I was director, I used to get letters. I got a
letter from a college or university fellow in Bombay, India,
wanting to know how he could enroll in the Foreign Service
Institute. You get them from a variety of people. Of course,
the answer is first you have to get a job in the U. S.
Government. It is in-service training. It. doesn't help you
achieve a position in the government. It trains you after
you get in. And that is a very important role. It is a part
of continuing education, of course, that government, business
and other people have accepted today.
And from that point of view, it would be logical for
the same group which concerns itself with the pre-induction
training, I should think, and you can make a good case, to
continue its interest, although the subject matter is going to
perhaps change rather sharply from the pre-inductionlo the
post-induction period.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
11
25 .
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
A good deal of the success of the Foreign Service
Institute is referred to as language training, like stenography
or speed writing on a-machine, or any other tool.
But, nevertheless, once a fellow is actually in the
service, he has so'much more drive to learn Spanish if he has
been assigned to Venezuela. He goes for three months and he
learns more Spanish than you would learn in five years in
college, if you don't know where you are going.
If you know that three months from now your promotion is
going to depend on it,. and I have to start using this right
in my job every day, a fellow really buckles down, and it is
amazing the amount of difference it makes.
it will astonish perhaps you gentlemen, and even
Senator Pell who knows the Foreign Service as well or better
than I, that in my opinion the U. S. Foreign Service today has
greater. capability likewise particularly, in languages, in
depth, than any foreign service in the world.
When I say in depth, I mean we have, for example, perhaps
80 people who rank semi-professional -- we rank them speaking
and reading, one being the lowest, two, you negotiate; three,
is semi-professional; four, professional; and five, bilingual.
We have .'80 people who can do S3, R3 in Russian; we have
100 perhaps in Chinese, 80 in Japanese, 45 in Arabic, 30 in
Turkish, 30 in Serbo-Croatian, and right on down the line.
I don't believe there is a single foreign service that has
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
142
the strength in depth that we do, particularly in esoteric
languages.
That is a surprising statement.
Senator Pell. Do you really believe that, that the
French Foreign Service, for example, would no t have a better
language training program?
Mr. Allen. The French? No. I have to emphasize it
in depth, and this is the rest of the explanation.
You take a foreign service like the Swedish,,and.when a
fellow goes into the Swedish Foreign Service he has to know
English, French and German to start with. Or in the Greek
Foreign Service, he has to learn more languages.
But in our foreign service, for example, even there of
the 3,500 Foreign Service Officers we have, and this is not
particularly pertinent to this bill, perhaps, but it is an
interesting point, 1,100 of our officers qualify S3, R3, which
we require for a promotion in French, 1,000 in Spanish, 800
in German.
Those are the main world languages, and Portuguese and
Italian considered part of tie same thing.
We divide the world into two parts, world language. and
hard language. Everything that is not a world language is a
hard language.
Polish, Swahili, Hindustani, all of those, we train in
all of them, of dourse.
}Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
20
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
18
143
This is a technique, if you wish, or a technological part
of training, but it is a very, very significant one in the
formulaions, I believe you will.all agree.
A question was raised this morning as to whether this
ought to.be in the.last two years of college or all four. My
own thought-is that this could well be left up to,the Board and
worked out by trial and error.
I would be inclined to emphasize the last two years, but
the gentleman from Michigan had a good point, that if you
restrict it by law to two years you might eliminate some
minority groups that otherwise you couldn't reach.
I would give myself permission for the Board, but allow
the Board to be the judge on that.
Senator Dominick. It seems to me there is another point
on that. That is that a good number of the high school kids
who are bright, smart and driving ahead look forward to
colleges and their area of interest.but they have some eye on
the economic pocketbook as well.
You can get scholarships for engineering purposes, you
can get them for a variety of other things. You can't get
them for foreign relations as far as I know practically any-
where in the country.
Therefore, if you did this, it might steer them or enable
them to go into an area of interest which otherwise they wouldn
think of.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
15
Mr. Allen. I think that is a very, very good.point.
There has become such competition for scholars, fortunately,
I think, as there is competition for football players. Schools
offer scholarships' to attract the most capable students
intellectually, law schools, medical schools, and offer
bigger scholarships.
It is an excellent point, it seems to me, to offer
scholarships in foreign affairs to attract the more able
and capable groups.
The one point in your bill, sir, that probably will cause
more discussion and maybe more opposition in the State
Department than any other single one is the provision that
if a person goes through the prescribed course of study and
the Board finds that he is adequate, he shall be commissioned
a Foreign Service Officer of the United States without other
examination.
Personally, I am frank to say I am not as shocked by
that provision as many of my colleagues in the Foreign
Service.
we have tried a lot of different ways to choose good
Foreign Service Officers. We have tried many different
schemes. But it all boils down to the fact that every time
an examination is given from 3,000 to 10,000 people take the
written part and then those that make a grade of 70 are invited
to come in and take the oral.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21: CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
The best any examining procedure can devise is to have
them come for one hour before a board of five people. It is
true that you go into the background and you get letters of
recommendation from the professors. But you know what those
sort of things mean.
Your basic judgment as to whether this fellow is going
to be good in the conduct of the foreign relations of the
United States is based on a one-hour interview. Many foreign
services, and I believe the British at one time and maybe they
still do, take their candidates down on a month's sort of
off-site training at an institution of some sort, but then
they get at least a month to size them up.
Oftentimes, you can't tell until a fellow has actually
lived abroad whether he is allergic to foreigners or not, or to
being in a strange culture or strange environment.
So one hour of examination is not the answer to the best
way to choose good foreign service officers. Any other
system has problems with it, but if you have four years to
look at a fellow, plus a year of graduate work, it seems to
me you are probably more likely going to be able to determine
whether he is going to make a decent foreign service officer
than through a one-hour examination and whatever investigation
;rou make.
That is why I say I am rather more relaxed about your
provision. I am not entirely certain whether I wouldn't maybe
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
I.4 6
56 1
17
19
combine some kind of tool.
Senator Dominick. liehas to have completed a year in
government service overseas, too, successfully.
Mr. Allen. Government service?
Senator Dominick. Yes. Specialized study, it is called.
So!-e has to have had that and successfully completed that as
well as his other work before that happens.
Mr. Allen. I think, sir, if I were a member of your
distinguished body and had to vote on this question, I would
say let us give it a chance, give it a try. There is no
perfect answer to these things. There are different ways of
going about it that you can experiment on.
I think, sir, that about terminates the thoughts that I
had on the bill.
The figures on page six of your document, Senator,
Dominick, are most impressive, that it costs $40,000 to train
an officer for the Army, $48,000 for the Navy, $50,000 for
the Air Force, and so forth, yet, they turn out ROTC officers
for an average of $7,500. That is very appealing.
That is another strong argument against establishing a
west Point for the Foreign Service.
Senator Dominick. It even convinced me.
Mr. Allen. On the other hand, people who are economically-
minded may very well say we are getting along pretty well now
and all these 500 institutions are doing good work in training
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
people, and we are not spending $7,500 on them now.
On the other hand,.it seems to me the answer to that
is that we ought to be., We are spending that on engineers,
doctors, lawyers, football players, and everything else,
except foreign affairs.
And this is the best way that I know of for the government
.to do something about training people in.foreign affairs. I
don't think of any better way.
There is no perfect solution to any of these things. We
are all human. We have to come up with the best ideas we can,
and these seem good to me.
I repeat that there is obviously a strong feeling in
the Congress and in the country that something ought to be
done on this. Otherwise, these bills wouldn't be coming in yea
after year.
My good friend, Congressman Zablocki, puts in a bill
every year, and some of the features of his bill are not,
entirely different from yours.
I should think you might be able to come together on the
matter.
That completes my remarks, sir.
Senator Pell. If there. are no further questions, thank
you very much, Ambassador Allen.
Mr. Allen. Thank you.
Senator Dominick. I want to thank you for your testimony
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
58 1
13
18
148
I think it has-been very helpful. I think some of the comments
you made may be extremely important in trying to tone down
opposition which I know is present and which I am sure will be
more vocal as time goes by.
I really appreciate your remarks.
Mr. Allen. I hope you are successful.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
14
15
16
19
20
Senator Pell. The next witness is Mr..Ghosn J. Zogby,
vice President, Foreign Service Research, Inc., Washington,
D. C.
STATEMENT OF GHOSN J. ZOGBY, VICE PRESIDENT,
FOREIGN SERVICE RESEARCH, INC., WASHINGTON, D.C.
Mr. Zogby. Mr. Chairman, my name is Ghosn J. Zogby. I
am a retired Foreign Service Officer, now Vice President of
Foreign Service Research, Inc.
FSR is a survey and research group staffed exclusively
by former career officers of the United States Foreign
Service like myself.
.We have all served over the years in various foreign
assignments for the United States and are familiar not only
with the types of personnel sent overseas by the United States
pursuant to various programs, but more importantly, the 'extent
to which the contacts between these individuals and those with
whom they have to deal abroad has affected the advancement of
,the foreign. policy of the United States.
Our own experiences have made us aware of a lack of under-
standing on the part of the American public of the specialized
knowledge of the technical complexities of diplomatic and
commercial transactions which is essential in order to achieve
the political and economic objectives of United States foreign
policy.
From this point of view, we at FSR have studied with
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
12
16
17
150
considerable interest the text of bill S. 939, which proposes
to establish and train a United States Foreign Service Corps.
We strongly endorse the principle expressed by this
legislation of recognizing the specialized character of the
work of the foreign service employees of the United States and
the desirability of extending the opportunity for acquiring
the necessary technical training to a larger group.
There are four points of the proposal which we support.
We view as essential to future foreign operations a broadening
of public and academic awareness of foreign relations problems
and an increased supply of trained personnel available for
foreign assignment.
Equally valuable, in our opinion, would be the tendency
of this proposal to add to the number of universities able
to offer comprehensive instruction.of this character and a
recognition of the professional academic status of the trained
individual in acquiring it by the provision for specialized
degrees.
More generally, we would commend the economy of utilizing
existing non-Federal graduate and undergraduate facilities
for- such a purpose.
Where this training can be encompassed within areas of
definable information and instruction, the proposal represents
an efficient utilization of the existing facilities of our
universities.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 13
14
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
151
We would, however, propose that this subcommittet consider
amending the draft of Section 1211. This section?
provides that the Foreign Service Institute, which ispresently
under the authority of the Secretary of State, would be trans-
ferred to the Board of Trustees of the Foreign Service Corps
established by the bill.
There is much to be said in favor of relegating to non-
Federal educational institutions those functions of the
Foreign Service Institute which duplicate available collegiate
This would include such institute functions as teaching
basic language courses, trade economics, consular and commercia
procedures and the like.
On the other hand, we are equally cognizant, in jthe light
of our own experience, of the fact that the Foreign Service
Institute, apart from any specific instructional activity,
constitutes a very important center in State DepartmeA,t:terms
for gatherings in seminar and colloquium by Senior Foreign
Service Officers and the sharing of experiences under the
guidance of the institute.
Similarly, the institute provides the opportunity of
making such experiences directly available to those juniors
who will be charged with the execution of State Department
w. ~
procedures -- as distinguished from administering the
statutory and regulatory special interests of the other
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
?52
10
it
12
14
15
16
17
20
Federal departments.
In other words, we feel that any competent foreign service
representative of the United States must have, in addition to
the type of training provided by S. 939, a specialization in
the overseas work of his own branch of government, whose
interests, in the long run, he is being sent abroad to further.
If this view is correct, then each department appointing
overseas personnel will necessarily be required to supplement
the general training under this bill for their own people.
In the case of the State Department, we see this as being
the most essential function of the Foreign Service Institute
as it is now organized, and distinct from its function in basic,
foreign relations training.
.With that exception, however, we favor the legislation as
recognizing the technical character of the representation of
the United States abroad, as providing for the education of
personnel to realize this and as increasing public and academic
awareness of the scope of the commitment of the United States
and its industries in foreign areas.
Senator Pell. Thank you.
Have you any questions, Senator?
Senator Dominick. Mr. Zogby, whatuas your experience in
the Foreign Service?
Mr. Zogby. Sir, after a stint in military government in
Germany as officer and civilian, I served as consular attache
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 10
11
13
14
1S
16
17
19
20
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
in Istanbul,1952-1954; political officer in Beirut; 1955-1958;
economic officer in 1959 in Frankfurt; and 1965 to 1967, public
affairs officer in Ceylon.
Senator Dominick. So you have had a broad experience in
a variety of different countries.
Mr. Zogby. Yes.
Senator Pell. Where were you between 1960 and 1965?
Mr. Zogby. I was attached to the Department in the Near
East. I am fluent in Arabic.
Senator Dominick. That is an achievement.
Mr. Zogby. My parents are largely responsible.
Senator Dominick. The experience level that you had,
then, should be able to give you some background as to the
advisability of having this type of undergraduate and perhaps
graduate work prior to the time of entering into the Foreign
Service. You think this is a good background, I gather.
Mr. Zogby. I definitely do.
Senator Dominick. Your Foreign Rervice Research, Inc.,
of which you are Vice President, what kind of an organization
is it? What does it do?
Mr. Zogby. It is designed to do research primarily for
American firms doing business abroad. To a large degree, we
concentrate on those American firms going into underdeveloped
areas, those most apt to need our expertise.
We also conduct surveys, negotiations. After all, many
fpproved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
12
14
16
17
18
19
21
23
154
of us still have very current contacts in countries. We have
on our roster 36 ambassadors, retired. We can handle, among
the 200 on our list, almost any language required, and cover
virtually every country.
Senator Dominick. That is a very imaginative type thing
which I am sure is extremely useful to a lot of people. I
wanted to get that into the record because I think the
testimony you are giving is important.
I gather that you are saying that you rather think if
we struck Section 1211 concerning the Foreign Service
Institute we would have a better bill.
Mr. Zogby No, sir, I want to distinguish there
between a function of the Foreign Service Institute for
advanced work and refinement and continuation of training --
well, not training but continuation of the exchange of
expertise of officers, as distinct from the basic training it
is doing now.
Senator Dominick, you said earlier 57 percent of the time
is devoted to language training. This is the sort of thing
I believe we should definitely best be done in other
institutions.
Senator Dominick. The only problem with that is that if
you are going to do it in other institutions, you are going
to have to spread the people who need this information, this
training, around throughout the whole country as opposed to
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
65 1
it
12
14
is
17
20
155
having one close at hand which they could utilize while they
are conducting their jobs here in Washington.
Mr. Zogby. Sir, I would foresee that an individual
would concentrate in one or more languages in his undergraduate
study and start from that point to specialize in that language,
and that he would come to the Foreign Service Corps with a
language specialty..
Senator Dominick. Do you see any problem in this question
of two years or four years in the undergrdaute level of
scholarship?
Mr. Zogby. No, sir, I do not.
Senator Dominick. You would just as soon have it the
whole way through?
Mr. Zogby. I would, yes, sir.
Senator Dominick. Thank you very much, Mr. Zogby. I
appreciate your being willing to come and give this helpful
testimony.
Senator Pell. Thank you, Mr. Zogby. I congratulate you,
too, on setting up the sort of organization you have to make
use of the skills of former foreign service officers who very
often have a hard time marketing these particular skills.
Mr. Zogby. Thank you, sir.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
66 1
2
3
10
It
12
1.3
14
#5
17
19
20
21
22
156
Senator Pell. Our final witness is Dr. Vincent Davis
of the Princeton Center for international Studies, Princeton,
New Jersey.
STATEMENT OF DR. VINCENT DAVIS
PRINCETON CENTER FOR INTERNATIONAL STUDIES
PRINCETON, NEW JERSEY
Senator Pell. Is the Princeton Center the same as the
Woodrow Wilson School?
Mr. Davis. The Center of International Studies, sir, is
the research component of the Woodrow Wilson School.
Senator Pell. Thank you.
Senator Dominick. If I may say so, Mr. Chairman, Dr.
Davis has been very helpful in many of the details on this
bill, and worked with me very closely when he was working at
the University of Denver in connection with the International
Studies Group there.
He has had a wide expertise not only in international
fields but also in the Pentagon problems that we have had,
defense-wise and otherwise.
Mr. Davis. I thank you for the opportunity to be here
today, and I would like to stress at the outset that my remarks
represent only my own personal views and professional judgments
One of the advantages of coming last is that I can
associate myself with some of the remarks that were made
earlier.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 10
13
14
16
17
16
proved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
157
I am very much in agreement with the remarks on the whole
of my esteemed friends and colleagues, Dean Wilcox and
Professor Tanter; also the remarks of our two distinguished
former Ambassadors here today, Mr. Allen and Mr. Hart, and
Professor Knoll. _
Mr. Chairman and other distinguished Senators:
I greatly appreciate the invitation from the Education
Subcommittee to appear here. today.
I plan to speak strongly in behalf of S. 939, a bill to
authorize a "United States Foreign Service Corps." However,
I would like to stress at the outset that my, testimony will
represent only my own personal views and professional judgments
I do not speak for any institutions, organizations, or
other individuals. At the same time, of course, I obviously
hope that a great many institutions, organizations, and other
individuals will share these views and judgments.
My files indicate that the distinguished author of S. 939,
Senator Peter H. Dominick of Colorado, first offered me the
privilege of commenting on this proposal .at a breakfast meeting
in Denver on Monday morning, March 13, 1967.
I liked the basic idea very much then, and'I have become
an increasingly strong supporter during the intervening three
years as I observed Senator Dominick's efforts to polish and
perfect this proposal.
He carefully and diligently sought the opinions and
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
68 1
10
11
12
13
14
1s
16
11
19
20
21
158
judgments of active-and former officials from all relevant
compoents of the U. S. Government and from the most knowledge-
able and respected leaders of American academic life.
I therefore find it difficult to improve on Senator
Dominick's own analysis of the bill and the related comments of
others as inserted in the Congressional Record of June 26;
1968, and February 7, 1969.
In view of these consideration*, perhaps the most useful
service that I could perform wouldsbe an attempt to summarize
the advantages of this proposal from the points of view of
various categories of people, institutions and agencies having
an obvious interest in the matter.
From the point of view of the American public as a whole,
it is clear that the United States has played and will continue
to play a critical role in world affairs.
Precisely what this role is or ought to be will always be
a matter for public discussion and debate at any given point
in time, but any nation commanding the resources of the
United States will always be a critical factor in world
affairs both for what it decides to do and for what it does
mt do.
The American public therefore has the very Strongest and
most serious kind of interest in assuring that its citizens
in general,but particularly its relevant governmental officials,
obtain the finest available education and training in the
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
to
12
14
1S
17
19
changing nature of a highly complex world.
The bill under consideration here is designed to
allocate a small fraction of the nation's resources in this
effort.
From the point of view. of the American Government, this
bills provisions for several thousand undergraduate scholar-
ships will allow the government for the first time to
penetrate a critical age level in the nation's talent pool
and compete, in the recruitment of the most promising young men
and women for civilian careers in public service concerning
foreign affairs.
Many of the nation's most able young people begin to
acquire a sense of direction and purposeand commitment toward
lifetime careers while they are still in high school or
preparatory school. At approximately age 18 they are there-
fore ready to make some important decisions, and they look
over the range of apparent opportunities.
The military services for many years have been able to
recruit at this critical age level by means of appointments
to the service academies at West Point, Annapolis and
Colorado Springs, and by means of scholarship assistance and
other benefits associated with the ROTC programs.
Many other professional and vocational fields such as
the sciences, engineering, business, law and medicine also
begin to compete for talent at the 18-to-20 years age level
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
[0
La
14
is
11
is
19
21
23
160
through undergraduate scholarship programs leading to careers
in those fields.
But the young-man or woman at this 18-to-20 years age
level who aspires to a civilian career in foreign service has
never heretofore been able to see any educational programs
which would lead in this direction, or any forms of scholarship
assistance indicating that the Nation attaches a high priority
to careers of this kind.
The govarnment can begin to compete for these people ony
only as they are approaching the completion of their under-
graduate degrees, and even then the primary inducement is
the simple power of persuasive words. But by then many of
fl.
the most talented and purposeful young people will have
felt compelled to elect careers in other directions.
In summary, then, the government competes and recruits.
within a significantly depleted talent pool when it is unable
to offer strong inducements to public service careers in foreign
affairs at the earlier 18-to-20 years age level.
Moreover, the remaining uncommitted talent pool at the
22 years age level as young people are graduating from college
contains a much higher proportion of those from affluent
socio-economic strata in the society, meaning that the absence
of scholarship inducements at earlier age levels thus deprives
the government of many talented young people who were not born
into families with comfortable incomes.
~Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
11
12
14
15
17
19
20
21
Another major advantage to the government in this proposed
legislation is that it is certainly the least expensive and
most efficient way to provide Federal support for education
and training in this critical field.
It will require a very small administrative staff and very
low administrative overhead.
it will require no investment in physical facilities or
real estate.
It is, pure and simple, a scholarship and fellowship
program with almost all of the indicated appropriations
representing an investment in talentdd people. It is, there-
fore, a very substantial bargain for the taxpayers.
From the point of view of participating undergraduate
students, this proposed legislation offers many attractive
features.
As I have already indicated here, it will open up for
interested high school seniors a clear avenue toward civilian
careers in public service in foreign affairs, where no such
avenue appeared to exist before at that critical age level.
In exchange for an opportunity and a commitment to enter
careers of this kind, they will receive free high quality under-
graduate educations from a choice of the best colleges and
universities in the Nation.
They will be selected to participate in the program on the
basis of rigorous nationwide competitive examiantions.
!Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
1t
12
13
14
15
17
16
24
162
Scholars, teachers and educational administrators who are
professional specialists in.foreign affairs will play a
significant role in the development of the competitive
examinations.
Therefore, in addition to the important financial
assistance which is involved, there will also be a distinct
personal honor in being selected to participate in the under-
graduate component of this program.
From the point of view of participating colleges and
universities, this proposed legislation has a great many
appealing dimensions.
First of all, the colleges and universities will have
a significant role in shaping and operating the program.
Four of the nine members of the Board of Trustees will
be professional educators.
The bill provides for academic consultants to help in
preparing the competitive examinations noted earlier in this
testimony, and for representatives from academic life to be
consulted in all other aspects of the program.
Unlike a number of other pieces of proposed and enacted
legislation whose provisions are more or less rammed down the
throats of participants on a take-it-or-leave-it basis, this
bill provides resources within very broad guidelines and then
puts a large part of the responsibility on the educational
and academic profession to fill in the details and to make it
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
14
13
14
15
17
19
21
Second, the colleges and universities selected to
participate will be chosen because they already offer
distinguished programs and courses.of study in. fields relevant
to the needs of American officials in-foreign affairs.
Therefore, these schools will not be required to do any-
thing substantially different from what they have been doing
and offering all along.
Third, the participating colleges and universities will
find that substantial amounts of their own scholarship and
fellowship funds will be released for allocation to other
deserving students, because many students previously attending
schools on support from funds generated by the colleges
and universities themselves would be eligible competitors for
participation in this program.
In that sense, there is an indirect form of institutional
support incorporated implicitly in this bill.
From the point of view of the participating government
agencies -- and this would include almost all agencies employin
civilian professionals in positions concerned with foreign
affairs -- perhaps the most attractive provision of this bill
is the stipulation for 1,500 graduate-level fellowships.
A concept that has gained wide acceptance in business,
professional and governmental fields in recent years is the
principle of mid-career education.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
It
12
13
14
15
16
17
19
20
164
New knowledge is accumulating at such a rapid rate in all
fields that it is no longer possible for a man to gain all of
his formal education between the ages of perhaps six and 22
and then to assume that he will never again need any further
formal schooling.
On the contrary, periods'of advanced formal education
are likely to be required at various stages throughout a
person's career.
This is recognized throughout government, and advanced
degrees are rapidly becoming a prerequisite for promotion to
higher rank levels in many agencies.
For example, the list released a few weeks ago which named
the 76 Air Force colonels recently selected for promotion to
brigadier general showed that more than half of these officers
hold advanced graduate degrees, with seven of them holding
the Ph.D.
The situation is much the same,if not indeed more rigorous,
with respect to Army promotions.
Over most of the 1950's, and until the 1960's, the latest
figures I saw said that the Army regularly sent over 400
.regular Army officers per year to the graduate schools.
I am told that an advanced degree is very rapidly becoming
a prerequisite for promotion to higher rank in the Army.
Unfortunately, however, the civilian agencies with
professional personnel in foreign affairs have been far less
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
to
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
successful than the armed forces in implementing this concept
of mid-career education, in part because the civilian agencies
have lacked appropriate financial resources.
one result is that energetic and motivated civilian
officials who desire advanced education have been required in
many or most cases to pay for this out of their own pockets
and to achieve it in miscellaneous night school programs or
similar arrangements-which often lack academic-distinction.
Another result is that many :Lf not most relevant civilian
agencies have simply fallen well behind the armed forces in
gaining significant numbers of professional personnel with
desired levels of advanced education.
The Dominick bill would be a major step in the right
direction toward correcting this circumstance. This, in turn,
would serve as a major career morale factor not only in
recruiting greater numbers of more talented people in public
service in foreign affairs in the first place, but also in
retaining more of those people for full careers.
At this point, I might interject a couple of other
comments. Some two years ago in some personal scholarly
research that I was undertaking, I addressed some questions
to the State Department very similar to some questions that
Senator Dominick raised this morning with Mr. Mace, attempting
to get some comparative data, between Foreign Service Officers
and people in other governmental agencies.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
$0
12
13
14
is
16
11
to
19
20
21
25
The data was not available.. It was said to me that the
State Department was attempting to undertake some studies that
would provide the data.
I am not aware that the studies were ever completed or
the data ever became available. But I did come upon several
other documents from other sources that bear on this point.
The Educational Testing Service, a private organization
in Princeton, is responsible for the college board exams,
graduate record exams, and many other examinations' of this
sort of ETS undertook in 1967 a study at the suggestion of
the State Department to compare Foreign Service officers over
a period of t.* a to see whether there were trends in performanc
on the Foreign Service officer examinations, and also a study
to compare Foreign Service officer candidates with those
people who had taken the graduate record examination, that is,
people who were interested in going to graduate schools.
Several interesting conclusions emerged. The first is
that there were no trends over the period 1964-1965-1966 that
the study covered showing that the quality of people applying
for the Foreign Service was going either up or down.
It was a flat curve.
Secondly, the people taking the Foreign Service test at
best had only a very slight advantage or only very slightly
higher scores than all of the people across the country who
were attempting to get into graduate programs anywhere,of any
jApproved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
77 1 li kind.
10
11
12
1.3
14
15
17
1s
19
167
Then there was a third.kind of comparison that the study
made which I found interesting. It ook a look at the people
who had taken-both exams, people who had taken the Foreign
Service exam and the graduate record exam.
This tended to support an observation that many of us
in academic life have made. Many people, when they get their
undergraduate degrees, would like to go to graduate school,
but they are not certain whether they will be admitted to
graduate school for studies in foreign affairs problems,.so
they hedge by taking the foreign exam.
If they get admitted, they will take it, and if not,
they hope they will get into the Foreign Service and
ultimately come back and return to graduate school.
They are not, in that sense, really committed to a career
in the Foreign Service.
Sena b,r Pell. I think there are those who do vice versa,
Mr. Davis. There may be some who do vice versa, but I
have encountered many fewer who do vice versa, and my colea
colleagues in the profession, I think, at many other schools,
have encountered far fewer who do it the other way.
Two years ago in the State Department there was concern
whether the Foreign Service was losing its best young officers.
There was a study that was undertaken under the direction of th
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21: CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
19
20
168
Office of the Junior Officer Program, and one of the con-
clusions that was reached was the following with respect to
retention. I quote from an internal memorandum in the State
Department.
It is interesting that the survey found 'that the
more or less typical resignee," - I think that is an
important point -- "was one who returns to academic life
either to teach or to obtain further graduate education.
"Our experience with young officers has led us to
conclude that most young people entering the service today
tend to magnify the similarities between academic work
and foreign service work and to minimize the differences.
"It is only after they have been in the foreign
service for some time that they discover for themselves
that their underlying academic bent was stronger than they
had realized."
My impression is that the academic bent was there all
along, confirming the other point that I just made, this, to
me, supports the proposal we are here considering.
If it looked to be possible for a young man to enter
the Foreign Service and to obtain more advanced education
a part of his career with the government, I think it would be
a much more attractive career.
But if he comes to the conclusion that the Foreign
Service is a form of professional life that discourages advance
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
79 1
17
Y8
19
169
education and does not seem to be interested in that particular
form of personal improvement, he becomes discouraged and the
retention problem I think-is heightened by this circumstance.
The U. S. Department of State is one agency which should
have, I think, a particularly strong interest in supporting
this bill.
Although tradition, precedent and law would suggest that
the State Department is charged with the overall management
and direction of American foreign affairs, it is also true
that the Departments of Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, the Post
Office and the Treasury and most other major agencies of
government have developed substantially internal units which
are active in foreign affairs.
The State Department, however, has generally lacked
adequate mechanisms to encourage coordinated educational
programs for the foreign affairs personnel in these other
agencies.
While S. 939 certainly does not give the State Department
a dominating position on this matter, it does provide that
the Secretary of State will be the only Executive Branch
official sitting on the Board of Trustees for this program.
In this way, and through consultati6A on the part of the
Secretary of State with his counterparts in other concerned
departments and agencies, the Department of State should be
able to exercise more of the initiative and responsibility in
~pproved For-Release 2005/11/21 :. CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
80 1
to
11
12
13
14
a5
16
17
170
the education of all public servants in foreign affairs than
has previously been the case.
Clearly, it would seem that this responsibility ought to
reside in this manner within the Department of State, in an
influential but not dominating role.
In some parallel respects, the American Foreign Service
Association is an organization which should have a particularly
strong interest in supporting this bill.
For many years the AFSA was somewhat like a rather small
and exclusive fraternity consisting of the Foreign Service
Officers of the State Department.
Within the past two years, however, the AFSA has gained
vigorous new leadership and what appears*to be an emerging
new image of itself.
According to this new image, the AFSA would no longer
be essentially an appendage of the State Department but would
become a true professional society potentially embracing
within its membership all civilian professionals concerned
primarily with foreign affairs duties in all agencies of
government.
The Dominick bill, if enacted, should: provide a reservoir
of talented people sharing common educational experiences, a
common commitment to the idea of professionalism in American
foreign affairs, and therefore, a common interest in joining
within the new vision which seems to be emerging within the
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
81 1
10
it
12
14
17
to
19
21
American Foreign Service Association. This, in turn, should
improve the quality and the cohesion of American foreign
policy.
Another trend involving the American Foreign Service
Association is highly commendable and is worth of note here,
because the enactment of the Dominick bill should facilitate
this trend.
For many years, a common attitude in the Foreign Service
and in the Department of State more generally was a skepticism
toward the research on international and foreign policy issues
originating in academic life.,
The diplomats tended to feel that the campus professors
studied abstract problems in abstract ways which had very
little relationship to the day-to-day policy problems confront
by the public servant.
The professors', on the other hand, thought that the
diplomats attached no weight to any kind of learning except
whatever they learned in their own on-the-job experience in
public service.
The diplomats thought the professors couldn't see the
trees for the forest, and the professors thought the
diplomats couldn't see the forest for the trees. Each side
thought that the other group tended to write in a privage
incomprehensible jargon well removed from the English
language.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
15
19
20
172
In the past few years, however, a fresh and encouraging
new attitude has developed in both quarters. Both sides now
seem to feel that there is much to be gained by all parties if
a congenial new spirit of open communications and cooperation
wherever possible could replace the old arm's length reciprocal
skepticism, if not hostility.
One concrete example of the new movement is the Joint
Committee between the American Foreign Service Association,
consisting primarily of Foreign Service Officers, and the
International Studies Association, consisting primarily of
campus professors.
There are even some campus scholars who are joining AFSA
and some governmental officials joining ISA. The AFSA-ISA
Joint Committee has already initiated several highly promising
new programs, and more are under consideration.
This new effort to build bridges of effective
communication between scholars and diplomats should be
encouraged by the Dominick bill, because both the scholars
and the diplomats would be in some respects joined in the
shared task of making the Dominick program work.
In some other respects, the scholars and the diplomats
ought to continue to keep a wary eye on each other if the
separate purposes of each profession is to be best served.
But a wary eye does not require an adversary relationship
leading to the breakdown of all useful communications.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 12
14
16
17
18
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
Now, in conclusion, I should perhaps devote a few
moments to some of the kinds of criticisms and reservations
which I have heard with respect to S. 939.
Some people have said that S. 939 looks too much like
ROTC programs at a time when ROTC programs are allegedly
unpopular among many college students.
The first answer to this objection is that S. 939 is
significantly, even radically, different from ROTC programs
in almost all respects except that participating undergraduates
under the provisions of S. 939 would receive free college
educations in exchange for a commitment for a certain period
of government service.
Secondly, evidence obtained in the recent study of ROTC
programs under the direction of President George C. S. Benson
.of.Claremont Men's College (on leave to conduct this study for
DOD) indicated that significant unhappiness with ROTC-type
programs in any case is largely confined to a handful of
schools primarily in the Eastern States.
Third, for all of those colleges and universities which
consider part of their responsibility to be the education of
young men and women for careers in public service -- and a
great many schools have longstanding traditions and programs
in this area -- it is hard to imagine a program more acutely
attuned to the principles and values shared by most professors
and many students than the program called for by S. 939.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
11
12
1.3
14
15
16
17
19
174
The participating schools will have great freedom and
control in shaping the nature of the program as it is
implemented on each campus.
To repeat again, this is primarily a scholarship and
fellowship program with very few strings attached as far as
the colleges and universities are concerned.
Some have suggested that students participating under
the provisions of S. 939 would be subjected tountenable
pressures if the United States should ever again experience
the kind of situation existing in the early and mid-1950's
when the loyalty of many Americans, especially a number of
people in the State Department, was publicly questioned.
That tragic period, however, involved and jeopardized
the careers of many people in private as well as in public
life.
If that kind of diseasedbysteria should ever again
strike this Nation -- and no man should drop his guard against
a repetition -- there is no evidence that people in public
service would be anymore vulunerable than those in private
L
Some people seem to feel that the provisions of S. 939
would tend to discriminate against those who did not participat
in its undergraduate program but who later decided that they
would like to try for a career in public service in foreign
affairs.
[Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
6
9
10
11
12
1.3
is
16
17
18
19
21
22
25
175
There is nothing in S. 939 which disrupts, undermines
or eliminates the traditional existing routes of entry into
public service in the fields of foreign affairs.
This bill provides for supplemental existing to
existing routes and does not in any sense replace them.
Some people seem to feel that a handful of prominent
schools are eminently better qualified to produce well-educated
people for foreign affairs careers than all other schools, but
that the provisions for geographical distribution in S. 939
would tend to discriminate against the products of these few
schools.
Representatives of at least a few of these same schools,
curiously, have taken an almost reverse position with respect
to ROTC programs.
An implementation of this kind of argument could result
in loading the civilian Foreign Service with the graduates
of just a few schools while letting the armed forces find
their officers from other places.
In any case, basic democratic values and other sound
political arguments suggest the wisdom of recruiting public
servants from all parts of the Nation and from a diverse range
of educational institutions.
Many other Federal programs such as the White House
Fellows Program, and respected private endeavors such as the
Rhodes Scholarship Program, have long TOllowed the principle
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 to
it
12
14
15
17
Y2
19
20
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
of geographic distribution.
Substantial financial support from Federal and State
Governments, from foundations and from other sources over the
past two decades have resulted in the establishment of many
excellent programs in international and foreign affairs at
colleges and universities across the United States.
Some of these objections, of course, are essentially
elitest arguments which represent special pleading on behalf
of institutions or groups previously thinking of themselves
as enjoying some sort of privileged role in dominating American
foreign affairs, or dominating the institutions which make
American foreign policy, or dominating the source of people
who enter these careers.
It is unfortunate and to be regretted that, in an age
and time when more and more Americans are insisting on their
right to participate in the politics and the life of a
democratic society, some space must be devoted to rebutting
objections which are basically undemocratic in their underlying
premises.
In conclusion, wise and prudent men will undoubtedly be
able to study S. 939, find potential or actual problems
associated with it as it now reads, and then devise ways to
eliminate the problems while improving the overall fulfillment
of its purposes.
As for myself, I find little in it to criticize and much in
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
it to praise.
In a crude and elemental sense, it is a question of
whether we prefer for American public officials in the field
of foreign affairs to be ignorant or educated.
Since no man would opt for ignorance, it is then a
question of how best to achieve the desired degrees and kinds
of education.
I believe that American colleges and universities have a
great capability and a great responsibility for helping in this
task, but this costs money.
For too long most professional and vocational fields in
the United States have relied on the colleges and universities
to provide the basic education required for entry into those
fields but without underwriting any significant part of.the
costs of this final pre-entry education.
Enactment of Senator Dominick's bill would signify that
the Federal Government is now willing to accept a larger part
of its responsibility in paying for the educations of those
who desire to dedicate their careers to public service in
foreign affairs.
If the Government does accept this responsibility, I feel
sure that the Nation's colleges and universities then can and
will accept and more adequately fulfill their share of the
responsibility.
Thank you very much.
to
15
16
17
is
19
as
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
11
12
14
15
17
19
20
178
Senator Pell. Thank you. As I understand it, you are
here in a private capacity?
Mr. Davis. Correct. I am not representing any
organization. or institution.
Senator Pell. Thank you.
Senator Dominick.
Senator Dominick. We have a letter, as you know, from
two of the Woodrow Wilson people, Mr. Chairman, which will be
put into the record. We have one from Dr. Coheen, who is
against the bill, president of the university; and one from
Mr. Black, Director of Research, who supports the bill and
supports it quite strongly.
Senator Pell. There is going to be a meeting of the
Council of the Woodrow Wilson school. Perhaps this could
be put on the agenda for that meeting and an expression might
be forthcoming. You might pass that on to Dean Lewis.
Mr. Davis. I will suggest to Dean Lewis this is an
idea worthy of his consideration.
Senator Dominick. Dr. Davis, I sincerely appreciate your
giving us this time, and I sincerely appreciate the help
which you provided all the way through, and a good deal of
the inspiration for my follow-through on the bill.
I am not sure that you particularly want to comment on
this, but I would like to get your ideas, if you have them
formulated, on the question of what we are going to do with
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
it
12
13
14
is
17
179
the Foreign Service Institute. I have a kind of feeling this
is becoming a flag that people will wave who are against the
bill.
I wonder if it might not be advisable to take it out of
the bill so we wouldn't have interjection of this issue in
the process of what is fundamentally a scholarship program.
Mr. Davis. I think one could argue that either way
in terms of the political tactics of advancing the cause of
the bill, but if one wanted to look at it purely as a matter
of principle I was impressed by Ambassador Hart's comments
earlier today, and I would have a minor disagreement with
Ambassador Allen's suggestion that FSI is in some respects
like the War Colleges.
if one follows Ambassador Allen's reasoning, it would
be a mistake to put PSI under the provisions of this bill. But
I am not sure that is the appropriate agency.
I think Ambassador Hart was essentially correct when
he suggested that the institute had become a different kind
of organization than perhaps originally envisaged.
It is now a national resource, an important one.,,_. and I
think it would be able to draw on a wider range of talents
from the academic communities and provide a wider range of
services to governmental agencies if it were detached in the
way you propose from its present close relationship with the
State Department and could exist within the context of this
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
13
14
15
24
particular program you propose.
On balance, I think I tend to propose leaving it in, but
I can understand'that there would be some good arguments in
favor of removing this particular clause from the bill.
Senator Dominick. I gather- from your testimony that
you are still in favor of the four-year undergraduate
scholarship program as opposed to a two-year program?
Mr. Davis. Yes, I very much am. One of the witnesses
commenting earlier today suggested the flexibility. I would
buy that as an important modification. It ought to be
possible for people to enter the undergraduate program either
directly out of high school or provision alternatively for
them to apply and enter the program for the last two years
only.
It seems to me this is a good case where one could have
his cake and eat it, too, and there is much to be said for
this sort of flexibility.
Senator Dominick. The State Department commented this
morning, Mr. Mace in particular, that there were two things
which were largely predominant in his opposition to the bill,
or the State Department's opposition.
One, of course, was this Foreign Service Institute.
The other was the fact that there was no need for the
bill. This was based on the fact that they are taking 150 to
175 people a year from the applicants and they had some 5,000
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
applicants.
Therefore, they could pick and choose among that group.
What kind of an answer do we have to that?
Mr. Davis. That strikes me as an inadequate,
quantitative argument. I am more concerned about the
qualitative considerations.
As I already noted, based on this ETS study, the Foreign
Serivde average score is only a tiny bit better than the
average score of people across the country desiring to go
10
it
12
14.
15
16
17
18
19
to graduate schools.
I think that the foreign affairs personnel of. the U. S.
Government ought to be substantially above average and not
.just a little bit above average.
I have already suggested in my testimony that the people
who take this examination, whatever the ratio may be between
5,000 who take it and 150 or so who are -accepted, wholly
aside from that, it seems to me that the people who take it
are coming from a depleted talent pool, because that is
the talent pool that is not formed until age 22. People have
already made many important commitments, many talented people
have made important commitments to other vocational and
vocational fields by that time.
So whatever the size of that pool, it is depleted in
terms of the qualitative talent in it. I would make one other
comment.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
11
12
1.3
14
1$
17
1$
21
23
I think the State Department may be excessively sanguine
if it assumes that the numbers and qualifications of people
who apply for the Foreign Service in the 1970's will look
even as good as they looked in the 1950's and 1960's for the
following reason: Federal support and private foundation
support for international affairs programs have been
drastically cut within the last few years.
This is already meaning a very significant retrenchment
in international and foreign affairs programs on many campuses.
I think many of us will be astonished next fall when we
look at the cut in admitted numbers of students in graduate
programs,in particular, across the country.
I know many schools are cutting by as much as 50 percent
and even more, down to a third of what they took last year,
because they don't have the fellowship and scholarship money
to give.
They are having to cut back from figures approximating
3Q. at some schools down to 10 who will be entering graduate
programs in these fields. That means in the absence of
new fellowship and scholarship support that there will be a
quantitative reduction in the total number of people who will
be available, so the State Department will be competing within a
much smaller talent pool.
Other competitors for that talent will be in there, too,
and it is an open question as to whether the State Department
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For. Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
11
12
14
15
16
17
18
19
can hang onto its competitive position that it has had
in the past to get whatever it has been able to get heretofore.
But I suspect it is going to be quite rough.
Senator Dominick. Dr. Davis, just for the record, I
wonder if you would give us your background, your general
education background, and some of the things you have been
doing.
Mr. Davis. I have been a member of the faculty at
Princeton University, at Dartmouth College, and for the past
seven years at the graduate schools of International Studies
at Denver.
I have been for the past six years the Executive Director
of the International Studies Association which I think it is
now accurate to say is perhaps the most prominent professional
society in American academic life in the overall fields of
international studies. Indeed, the organization' has a sub-
stantial number.cf members in a number of other-countries
around the world.
My personal field of specialization in my scholarly'
research is American foreign policy and American military
policy.
In terms of my work for professional societies, in terms
of my work on campus, and in-terms of my personal research,
I. have been closely associated with a number of people in the
government, in the State Department and in the Defense
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
94 1
10
11
12
14
15
16
17
18
19
22
24
184
Department, and other agencies with roles in foreign affairs.
My research keeps me in close contact with those people
and so does my work for the International Studies Association.
Senator Dominick. Thank you very, very much. I think.
this has been most helpful.
Senator Pell. Mould you submit for the record, or have
you with you, the studies pointing up your point that the
State Department's new FSOs are only a trifle above the
average coming into the graduate schools around the country?
Mr. Davis. I will be happy to provide that for the
committee's record.
(The information to be furnished follows:)
COMMITTEE INSE1tT
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
185
Senator Pell. The record will be left open for two
11
13
14
16
17
23
weeks, at least two weeks.
I would like, incidentally, to further compliment the
principal sponsor of the legislation, who believes in this.
bill so strongly. Actually, he and I both are on the
Georgetown Center for Strategic Studies and have a long-
standing interest in this general field.
I have a couple of thoughts as we?wind up today's
hearings.
One is I am wondering what sanction there is to cause
people to stay in the government service. I don't think they
can sign a contract or anything of that sort. I think it would
be very difficult to implement that program. what is your
thought?
Senator Dominick. we have one now, of course, with
respect to the military, for anybody who goes through the
academy. The theory is that if you successfully complete it
and you undertake this examination in view of the support
you have received from the government, that you would agree
to serve five years.
To be perfectly truthful with you, if they decided in
the third year that they don't want it, I don't think there
is any personal service contract that you can hold a person
to. I think this was outlawed back in the days of
Shakespeare, as I remember. It is a kind of moral
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
10
11
12
9s
11
20
21
commitment..
Senator Pell. Another thought was if the name was changed
from Foreign Service Corps to Foreign Service Scholarship
Program, this may sound like semantics but it would perhaps
have a lessened effect on the clique concept.
I was wondering whether that idea had been discussed
before.
Senator Dominick. It has been. I have been perfectly
flexible on this. We put the word "Corps" in to begin with
because of the Teacher Corps, the Poverty Corps, the Peace
Corps, the whole works that we have had around.
I am perfectly willing to change the name.
Senator Pell. Another point is in connection with-the
appointing process.
I am a little bothered by that because I am one of the
rather small minority, I guess, and I am not sure whether I
still am or not, who really are not happy with the way we
appoint our people to the academies now.
We are not at all convinced that it should be within our
prerogatives to do it.
I have some hesitancy about seeing members of the Congress
with increased appointing powers rather than decreased. It
looks as if we finally got out of appointing Postmasters, and
I hope we get out of appointing cadets at some point.
I think we should be going in the other direction.
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
 Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1
187
Senator Dominick. On the cadets, I would disagree with
you. That is one of the best things we do when we really
work at it. I thoroughly enjoy it.
On this we have a little bit different situation. What
we do is simply nominate people to take the exams. We don't
appoint them into this particular situation. They have to do
it on an examination basis from there on in.
Senator Pell. That is like the Merchant Marine Academy.
Senator Dominick. That is correct, which is no problem
to
at all.
It
I would think we have a different situation here than
12
we do with the academ
y.
13
Senator Pell. I thank you very much.
14
The record will stay open for at
least'.two weeks.
i5
At this point, the hearings will
adjourn.
xxxx
16
(Whereupon, at 5:10 p.m. the subcommittee concluded.)
17
18
19
Pg/Reys
21
1-29-70
Sate Labor 22
23
Approved For Release 2005/11/21 : CIA-RDP72-00337R000500010011-1