DIRECTOR'S MEETING WITH MEMBERS OF THE CONGRESSIONAL WOMEN'S CAUCUS

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP81M00980R002100040020-3
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 5
• Document Creation Date: December 16, 2016
• Document Release Date: November 23, 2004
• Sequence Number: 20
• Publication Date: July 20, 1978
• Content Type: MFR

Approved For Release 2004/12/22 : CIA-RDP81 M00980R002100,
OLC: 78-2030/4
20 July 1978
SUBJECT: Director's Meeting with Members of the Congressional
Women's Caucus on Thursday, 20 July 1978
1. On Thursday, 20 July 1978, Director Stansfield Turner met
with eleven Members of the Congressional Women's Caucus for an
informal discussion on the role of women in the CIA. The meeting
was held in H-235, The Capitol, and lasted from 3:00 p.m. to
4:00 p.m. The discussion centered mainly on unclassified information.
Representative Elizabeth Holtzman (D., N. Y.)
Representative Margaret Heckler (R., Mass.)
Representative Lindy Boggs (D., La.)
Representative Shirley Chisholm (D., N.Y.)
Representative Barbara Mikulski (D., Md.)
Representative Mary Rose Oakar (D., Ohio)
Representative Patricia Schroeder (D., Colo.)
Representative Gladys Noon Spellman (D., Md.)
Representative Millicent Fenwick (R., N. J.) - late
Representative Shirley Pettis (R., Calif.)
Representative Yvonne Burke (D., Calif.)
Ms. Betty Dooley, Executive Director
Ms. Susan Scanlan, Staff Assistant
and Four Summer Interns
3. Accompanying the Director were:
Bernie McMahon, Executive Assistant to the DCI
DD/EEO and Federal Women's
Congressional Support Officer
4. Co-Chairwomen Heckler and Holtzman greeted the Director on
behalf of the Women's Caucus and commented how pleased they were that
someone of the Admiral's rank had willingly volunteered to meet with the
group and he was the first one of such rank to do so.
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5. The Director prefaced his remarks by stating he would be
discussing the role of women in the context of his responsibilities
as Director of CIA and not as Director of the Intelligence Community
where he did not have a responsibility for personnel regulations and
programs. The Director then went on to describe the three main
areas of intelligence collection by the Agency, how we collect
intelligence, and the way women are involved in these areas. He
described some of the difficulties encountered in utilizing women as
case officers in the clandestine area because of cultural restrictions
on women in some areas of the world, e.g., the Middle East. He
noted, however, a recent incident involving a woman case officer,
a competent and bright woman who was doing an excellent job and
through no apparent fault of her own, was caught spying for us. The
Director ended his remarks by asking for questions from the Members.
The women asked a number of questions that the Director was able
to respond to and allowed that we may not be as good as we could
or should be, but the Agency is making every effort to enhance the
status of women in the Agency. Some observations and comments by
various Members are cited below:
Several comments were made about our recruitment
practices and whether all our recruiters were men,
how many are women, do we use female recruiters
to recruit women and what special efforts are directed
towards recruiting women.
Ms. Holtzman said she felt recruitment might be
an area where more progress could be made. She
also referred to Stockwell's book and said she read
a paragraph there where the author mentioned that
in his particular area women were not given good jobs
and their talents misused.
Ms. Mikulski commented that she could understand
the Director's reasons for the small number of female
case officers in the DDO, but felt strongly that progress
could be made in recruiting more women for the technical
and analytical side of the Agency. She questioned
whether we are looking in the right places. She noted
percentage figures supplied to the Caucus by the
Library of Congress and commented how very few
women were in the GS-13 category whereas there was
a very large percentage of women in the GS 1-6 category.
(See Attachment.)
- Ms . Fenwick questioned whether men and women of
the Agency's maintenance force are paid on the same
scale.
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Ms. Chisholm said she felt the Agency was losing
out by not contacting women's colleges, especially
female faculty members of Science Departments and
that we should delegate someone with the specific
responsibility to recruit this untapped resource for
employment.
Ms. Spellman wanted to know why we don't seem to
use capable women already on board instead of going
outside and why we don't seem to pay women on a
comparable scale with men for the same jobs.
Ms. Schroeder described an unhappy circumstance
when she was interviewed for employment with the
Agency back in the Sixties. She could fly an airplane,
speak the Mandarin dialect of Chinese, and a college
graduate, but was only asked "Can you type?". She
could elicit no responses from the interviewer on
where she might work in the Agency, what she might
do, and what kind of work was open to her.
Ms. Burke asked what percentage of our employees
on duty had transferred from the military. She also
asked the salary of a GS-18 and how it compared with
the salaries of Members of Congress.
6. The queries posed by the Members of the Caucus were satisfactorily
answered except for the last item from Congresswoman Burke, and we are
following-up with her office.
7. The women ended on a very friendly note and again the Director was
thanked for being the first Administration member of his rank to appear
before the Women's Caucus. They expressed a desire that the Director
would return in a year and give the women an up-date.
8. Not pertinent to the discussion on women in the Agency, but of
note:
Congresswoman Heckler mentioned to the Director
a briefing she had received on Portugal which she
felt was not at all worthwhile. She said she learned
more about what was going on in Portugal from an
"underground" Boston newspaper, "The Phoenix,"
than she got from her briefing by CIA. She repeated
this again after the Director left the meeting.
After a break for answering a roll-call, Congress-
woman Fenwick discussed with the Director an article
in Le Monde, a leading French liberal newspaper,
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describing a situation involving Cubans in Kolwezi,
Zaire. She said she sent the article along to Senator
McGovern, Representative Solarz and Frank Moore,
White House Congressional Liaison Office. The Director
said he also would like to have a copy of the article
which she promised to send along to him.
Congresswoman Mikulski took my name and telephone
number, saying she was glad to have a contact at
the Agency to determine what unclassified material
CIA might have available that would be helpful to
her. I offered that we would be glad to send her
a list of our unclassified publications, maps, and also
provide briefings by analysts on subjects of interest
to her.
Attachment:
As Stated
Distribution:
Original - OLC Subject w/att. 1-DCI
1 - OP(Janney) w/att. 1-DDCI
STAT 1 - OP w/att.
STAT 1 - EE w/att.
1 - OLC Chrono w/o att.
OLC:ME:clm (24 July 1978)
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 - * The Library of Congress
proved For Release 2004/12/22 : CIA-RDP81 M00980R002100040020-3
Congressional Research Service
,i,/ Washington, D.C. 20540
DISTRIBUTION LIMITED
July 12, 1978
TO: Congresswomen's Caucus
Attn: Betty Dooley
FROM: Karen Keesling, Analyst
Government Division
SUBJECT: Employment of Women at the Central Intelligence Agency
The following material was prepared in response to your request
for information on the employment of women at the Central Intelligence
Agency,
Employment statistics for the CIA are not contained in any
report prepared by the Civil Service Commission on Federal employment
of women and minorities, The CIA is not at liberty to give us the total
number of employees nor the employment of women by grade. We have been
able to obtain a percentage by grade groupings as follows:
GS 1-6 78.35 percent of employees in these grades are women;
CS 7-12 36.02 percent of employees in these grades are women;
GS 13 and above 6,58 percent of employees in these grades are women.
If I can be of further assistance with regard to this request,
please don't hesitate to contact me at 426-5827,
KK/ln
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