HOUSE RULES COMMITTEE HEARINGS ON JOINT INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE PROPOSALS

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90-00610R000200080010-7
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 9
• Document Creation Date: December 14, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 18, 2003
• Sequence Number: 10
• Publication Date: March 2, 1961
• Content Type: MFR

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? ORATh raft,twEtZCORZ
SUBIZCIZ: lIouse 'Ades Contalittee
Conarsittoo PrepacJals
MAR 1961
ti
arings on Joint
Z,OL:tla
. The House Rules Committee held hearinp at 10;30 a. r.,
1 March. 1961, 024 proposals to establish a Joist Committee for
lizence
13 the Congress. Almost ail of the members a the itulea
Committee wow, presoat. 'aicalbership list attached. 411 =embers
of tho CV bcornalittee of Rouse Armed Services wore prosont
the exception of Mr. Price. Mr. renda was also presont. Zarlditio
to the conzresaional witneesee. ltepreseotatives$ikes and Zuhloci..i
were present. The Chnic=an opeaedby notlez that they had heard
certain witnesses already but had delayed, the hearizae to anip.ble
zazzi F. itelly (a., 'N.Y.), ono of tile opera:era of the Joi.ot Cerzalii;wo,
to? twear.
2. Mr a. Italy took the stand. ana Gaid that ohe was convinced i
of the need for a Joint Committee because of certain personal exya-rt,:,?.)nced
ehe had had. bocause ef the 40*.4.132, Commis:410re* recommendatione. ? i
and because of her goacrel 4041c0:15 for the reeponall'ailities ?of the
?Conaroso. She said? that 14 writran thbo oricjoal Masai L'ecurity Act
and wi..)ritins with Sri= Ucltahon they found thst intollizjonce they-
needed was sadly tackiag. ?I'ihe noted that there had been four rewEevie
of intollizonce activities, stating that there had been two tioover Cum-
?4.siesion reviews. on. by General Doolittle, and one aothorised by the
had
Conzrees. Vac noted- that th,: Preeideat establish ar
ed hia ow n 1.%ed
G n intelligence, which she? claimed was ;made, up entirely of clvilin24.
and i2;16) argued that if the Preeidezt needed oonao eatity to oversee
intellizenco the Cenzrees had the same need. She said she was a. the
Genova Conference 1st 1956 and at the intellizence 4riefing given ia
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preparation a the Conference it was not knownthat it was the auesian
intention to knife the Conference although the other foreign repreeent-
atives told them about it. She claimed that there was a. long ?erica of
intelligence failures, including the Suez incident, Hungary. downgrading
of Stalin, Sputnik, Cuba, South America, and the U-a. She said there
was no problem of having good security in a Joint Committee and cited
the example of the Joint Atomic Energy Committee.
3. Mrs. Kelly caid her concern wan not just with CIA but with
the entire intelligence structure and its operations. She noted that
she was on the roreign Affairs Committee, which had appearances by
Mr. Dulles. She said that she personally had received some intelligence
information which she had passed on to the proper authorities two yearo
ago and that recently she had received a note from the intelligence
authorities stating that this was of far more importance than they had
originally realized and they wished to got in touch with her about it at
once. She said this indicated a total failure and lack of appreciation
by the intelligence activitieo. (This is a grous distortion of a minor
incident arising out of a crackpot making allegations to Mrs. Kelly
about the Agency. Legielative Counsel has a complete record in this
matter.) Therefore, Mrs. Kelly said what she wanted was a joint
? congressional group having responsibility to oversee total intelligence
activities. ?Citairinan oward W. Smith (D.. Va. ) noted that the .Arrned
Services Committee is already supervising intelligence. Mrs. Kelly
said she had heard they were doing something but she did not know what
they were doing. Chairman Smith said one of the thing? that bothered
him most was the way talk on confidealialraed tl______JaSpeso.
Judge Smith in addition otated that this was a most delicate oubjoct and
that secrecy was necessary in this particular situation and, therefore,
he was raising the question of whether or not the job is already being
done. Mrs. Kelly indicated that she had talked vrith menibero of the
Armed Services Committee who advised her they knew nothing about
the work being done by the Subcommittee. Judge Smith added that it
Is doubtful how far any committee of Congress can go into this matter.
4. Mr. Ray J. Madden (D.. Ind.) asked U CIA got into the
propaganda field. Mrs. Kelly said she thought there was some counter-
intelligence involvement in the information corning from US. Mrs.
Kelly said in connection with the Bolivian riots at the time of Vice
President Nixon'a visit that anyone talking to the airline pilots down
there could have foretold what was happening but apparently CIA people
did not. She said there were people known as CIA people in Lolivia
and once they become known they are useless and they do not have any
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unicwA oup a heb1d have. W4daert s4441 eliorn hima,
Wthi radically wrong and pointed out thuespecial. committee 'el the
V.;34"rd Consrose (Zirston Ce.amtittes) heid hearings in this conary
and in Europe and had 144404 to all the leAders of gevornmezif:.s v4tich
kra4 Si4C0 bean taken over by the Communist% and the committee
had reported the resulto of how the Communists had taken over
Lithuania? Latvia, Czachoslovada, and the other couatries.
zai4 thitt i3fOrglatian should he pubileted by the 1:Pc,:artarter,1 cf
State in So.,,sth AC* o that they would be informed down there
as to what the? Conurzuniste, aims and technigaes are but that tho
Departnatlat of State doss nothing. Urn. Kelly alleged. ether lolel
Lit;ecace failuros, 44r..4.ris if the U. S. Ambassador should have bcon
on vacation when the i-lanzarian revolution, broke *et.
5. Mr. Clarence .T. Iirewa ouo) said ;he felt intel-
ligence must be weak. and referred to Yalta, Petsdars and Mc Chit'xg'ie
ornmunista tie agrarian reformers. lie pointed oat tho CIA was
roated by a bill reported out a the Government Operations Cern-
Jittee a the Nouse1 which has jurisdiction over its operationo. Ho
said it was set up to evorcorne the weaknesses in foreian inteiVozesieu
and was responsible for coordinating ail ietellizence which vi4as to
go to the National ,Soeurity Council, encept that he remembered
/a 0110 case a stupid Ambassador bad preveoted the laormatina
frogn being ferwardea, (I assume he was referris3 to the -,f,7,,oc;o2a
incident (1.R1R)). Ile 4242 Vlore visas plenty ef evidence that the -
ligesco structure had la ot functioned properly but that thio eraz, :zet
the fault of Congress, as he asked Mrs. Z:olly if it we ;Act the
Ito possibility of the Natiowal Security Council to review the eilectivv.
nese of intelligesco. MTV). Nally az4id et' o4tleeo
such a review and they are AU ithAnd that Conress&suld de
the same. M. Zrown said he taus sure that the National Ziectmtiy
Cokuteil voornbers are patristic ;men a high standing and as4cd
th.ey would not knew end take anti= a things WOre wrong is tho
inte/ligence coau-nunity. Mr. Brel;kra rzioad the fnrther questio:ci
of why the Spea.ker should not have established. jarisdictienc CIA
in Government 02erations rather thee lathe Armed 4'302140w;
Cerrnrnittee.
6. lar. 'lames S. Delaney (I).? t ) asked Mrs. Z'Colly
if the incident she had previously :mentioned in which she lad
reported information two years azo and which had just bee'n
found important Tay the Intelligence agencies was an isolated
incident. Urs. Kelly replied that it was ens a =any.
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7. lifre. Katharine St. George (V.. mi% ) coked if the
juriedletioa c.)f the Joint Committee would iriClUtie the FBI. &ad
'Mrs. Kelly replied that it would. Mrs. Kelly was asIted it the
3oiat Committees infovrzation received from the intelltence
aver:cies would be availt-4ble tke whole Uousc. and she &lid
that it would be.
?
tgir. P4:31 (1,1, Tex. ) was then callod on, and
he stated to was appeartaz oppeeition to a Joint Comes?ittc..e. In
the first place. te said ho wished to mike c/ear the difgeronce
between intellizonce services and irdorroation sorvices.
?polated out that ao theso !phrases are used, intellizenco services
collect and two:LI:ate fereisa ittformation and information services
give out information Oa behalf of thic Covernelont foreian nation?.
e pointed out the letWr function W43 outside of the intellizense ficid
?nd W40 the rospene10.-lility of USIA, -zihich an a4eacy v./as weapon-
ib/o to tho roreign Affairs Committee of the Ueuse. gavo the,
ccielative history isf CJpot Ainz out that -while the basic 4aCt ic:.:47:01b-
liVilinS, it had boon, repertod out by this old Committee col, 1.?41:TontlItarce.
F, th.4, Zuocutivs Breaeh. now the Malan Government Opt Cc'
rnittce. eiacc that arst act all iegieletion, iacludin4 the CIA Act of
1949, and legielativs overolaht had boon ill, '4140 Armed f3orvicos Cor40.
mittee. and, thereforo. dm a-louse Parliamostariaa hat!) ruled that
?it had historic lezislativejkleidiction sad iogislative? evercitakt.
No recalled how 19'56 the Chairrzaa of the Arzsed Serviced Com-
mittee had established a seecerzrnittoo, composed? of ttto center
committee members, $tor CIA, tosive,- it closer attention. bit. in
? view of the heavy %/or:m.104d on thee* merahero it had been roorgavaiaet.1
in thee &thCoat:rocs with himself as Chairman and some mere junl'or
concrosemca &ivc more time to it. ?He otatsd that the Joint 4tozzio
Znoray Covornitteo was net a zoaciea-a.milto to cite ae ght pralOrtio
"tArQriti very different. Atomic Encrey involved many grave problerne
. of doneo4t4c policy and husc expe4ditures 1Arnorican economy.
Therefore. the
tot Committee bad to be fully informed. but yea
could 420t Oper.ate iatalipilie0 services oa a. basis of tally iziforminz
Conzressiu flaopects. Re read the portion a the Act thic
ouonvted CM fro= repertins facts aad figurest tite Coaurens,
Cayliraethat
Co had rocoanized this proble4n piassins the
? Act. tiWir. nilday asserted his betiof la malt:taint:Ns tho bleat_t
system in ths Coagresa and said there '0,722ti% AO reason to4.1bandorl it
Lo thc isteiiisonce field in favor a a 3'clizit Committee. Mc pointod
oat tbe practical problems cf tiouse enerzbera meeting joiatly with
the Senators Wild that tba lozielative process loses la the Joint
Committee eyvtara tho review by each aiez.teo lezislative proposale
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teforo goin to conference en difi'sroncos. Ur. Klidny cited the
, 46- apl?earances CIA imado before the varines congressieui4 cw-ga-
raittesa in the lezisia.tive year IT:19-1960 and that hie erigrn &Zoom-
!mitten had had nenscrous l=rings, all, 44 course, in eacenavo
? cession. Ile added that M. Arcade atad Mr. Vinson wore ea?
?ogfieie members ir4 ale $utcotrilmitteo awl that .1,1r. Arende ikad .
1 ehnlwri 4 great interest. gttendina, practically all a the Subcevn-
vzittee mactinzo. Mr. Kili:iay stated that, 4 Z a l 111107Pb4MD tk.i2Qw,
, an important aspect of the legislative oversiett eatended beyond
?cormnitte{.3 rosetinzs, and he indicated he leas in constant liaison
,
, with Mr. Dialles andlez,,islativo reprcoostatives of the .14,eancy
: were constantly ia touch with kis staf. fi,, onid that CIA has
been responsive vithin the beands of proper security, and be
raconally believed in receiving only that- information he :had a
need to know to do ban sob.? 'Mr. IC,ilday described the inteliizoneo
community which was establishod by National Zocurity C040.6.1
?dirOCtiVei liseltlin the membership. rio .pelated out that of the
ten rnetnbers of 'CUD seven cows from components une'er the
lesielativejorindiction a the Armed ServItes Committee. With
furtbor reference to statutory exemptions kr the AetitaC7i Mr.
?IKilday indicated that it vraa absolutely necessary for activities a
this typc.i, Zati lot included the ward "spyinz." It was Az-z:ade clear
that CIA reports tO four Sas-committees oi the Coozrenno to
?Appropriations and Armed Services a both $ictuata 4Z4 110140C.
...-- . \
9. Nilr. William M. CO14747 -(D., 'Mies. ) aelzed if CIA?
? responded Allay to inquiries of the Subcommittee, and Mr. Zilday I
said it did. W. I'ZiLday indicated that he had no occasion to thin'a I
,
1$,,N otherwise and that they had been briefed fully on the fundamental
i 1
. * cnerations of the Agency. As to security precautions at hze:.rlinge,
4 , 1
, he indicated the carefUt precautions incluaing technical sweepe
of heasrinz rooms for boas, etc. Mr. Kilday also ?mentioned the fate
' of tho 'Mansfield resolution in?1956 where, on the final vote, ten
of tile co-opensora failed to vott? for the reecaution. M. CeInster
asked if there had been any leaks fronl the Subcommittee, ArA4
?Mr. Paisley said. he believed there ixad hes* nose and had been,
assured by Mr. Dulles that there we Zetle? MT. Coiraer said
. ho was very ranch bothered by the tendency of congressmen to
onploit confidential information rattler than protect it. ?
?lo. Ur. Madden ashed if M. Cilday were satisfied that
there was tho needed interchange a information between the intel-
lisonce agencies ao one would not hums a. piece, of information
important to cithero. Uwe :Kilda,/ pointed out that the. estimates
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were, a coordinated eliort and that 1,3sra $0,at AA laza once a woolx
make cure that there Was appropriate coordination. M. Madden:
?proceed his cuestion about is.,,divideel pieces of information. ana
'Kilda," could only repeat that he felt V.'41),3 would take care of
this altheegh he staid tiu.DI people being Leman 14113ht from time to
time hold oat informationfor their 4:MA purposes'.
U.Mr. :Drown caicl. that the Clark Task, For.co dealt 41r4oct
4cluotivoly with CIA apart fro= the other intelligonce 4Zt)=Ciea and
? he oaderctood that in the classified ,,portion they hod 66i114 =ifstad
. things to say about CIA. Kilday caid be bad net coon the
classified r:opert. M. Zll'a 41"."Wita $f CIA had bean efficient /and
affectiv. Ntr. Elialay said he would be? the last to say they wore
perl'act. but he felt that vie had started complete neophytes
the field of latellisenee,, that it V/6.6 ao, area rather forei47,n to
,Amoricans and rather distnetofni -View, and he felt there
been constant improvement over the yt,,,rars and the lutoiligonce
structure generally W46 effective. Mr. raelatud oat that
in connection with certain. alleged failures, tho Director deco not
?
douy confirrrs although he mac in a. ipooltion to cay certuitt
casez the alleged failures were aot failures and in f,-;Ict the AC,C3-Cy
? did have the information. Es alzo said that ha felt hlo Subeam-
?mittee was doingt afeactive job in savory-1,9/1ga CIA.,
42. M. Leolia C. Arende ta., ) said ha bud boon,
? asked by the Chairman el theML Armed,'Services Committee to
speak in opposition to the SOlot Committea bills aad ttiath would
only endorse completely ever. Ilitar,r nuelay bad said? earlier.
13. Mr. Vd4;ar W. Illoctand, (It.. Calif..) cald Mat viale
- he endorsed lesirs. Eatly's thozuht that there ahead be some over-
?sight by a Joint Committee he thonht euch a committee could do
more. Ve Understood there very problezna ta coordination in
?the intellis,ionce field ood he felt the aoint committee could help
intellif?ance components in ceordinatins and furtherroors cod
.sts. to bat for the iatellizeuee servic.c when they seeded hot?.
14. M. *TattlesL VanZonet (L. Pa.. }.appearing
opposition to the iroint cormnittce bills%) said het had hod 40 yours
of military eaperiewco and knows somathinz b?tintt:Alizenco and
its irnportanac.?licx bad participated in the paccaao of the CIA Act
of 1949. it.la pointed out that traditionally the 7.4ritich intelligance
had be913;-X6Z4rded 46 the boutiit64volt:cod
experience. CM had improved o that it vae now rated the best ?
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in no world. lie:pointed out that net only was it supervised by
, the Armed Services tiutacer.om.Sttees bvt that its ,arJpropriatiorze
'were carefully reviewed by ths Appropriations Committees so
that in effent there are two watchdog vektlnznitteen today. M.
Vao Zandt added that CIA was constantly before the $,474 Cr
on ,ASeralc R:niergy fArcishiss ate data that this Cormnittee
needod tor its deliberations. Vs also 'Added Vag Iti1C CIA Slit-
ccraltrattise spends many hours 4.1.zeoilyniaz-, the various data which
wore presented to it by the Agency. ne stressed the principle
?of the need to 1444M and said this should? be fellowad. in the Conoreas
as well 41.$ Ut the rxecutive Dranch. Ea Watt nfied if be thouu,ht
the intelligence services were efaciont. and 1.-e repeated that he
?thouaht they were now the beet in the 'world.
15. Ur. Irr&nk C. Onmers. 'Jr. (R., N. J. ) also a,-;pc-r;ailred
eaainet the Joint Committee bills wad eznphanized the fact that the
lel:gocutivo tranch lui,d the censtit.-utie=1 responsibility for foreian
intellisence. 14e Said that so far 443 gatherinz intelligence was
? concerned. ?Its did not think. that 4..,,Solat Committee vaellid in any vay
inlprove gatherins and that in the field of evaluation this was the
sole responsibility of -a., Executive. Vie mentioned that while thcli.,.e
bad been sow& `All-eZti014 a mistalces such as Yalta. Potsdam. azth
81.10Z4? thtt only pCrinaCP WbO C4)414 Natty' t40 V.11 Whottior there had been
intolli3osee failures would be the Presiolents concerned. ZO only
they would know what, %her considerations bookies intellizence wont
into the decisions they made. Tile emphanized the natural tendency
cl.politicians to talk about confidential matters and* therefore. izu hiP
opinion a noniody should, not be added in the sens.,,,tive fi 'cid of
intelligence. vbfr. Z. 1.1.4. Zink P.. Calif. 'asked if the present Se4-
contretttoe sh,ould not lafornt the Co:2st-, os a what it does and take
? the responsibility which the proposals onde.r consideration would
Aput on a Joint Con=ittee. Ns said he, cad 'he felt a areat =mbar
of covaressmwn. had not ow= %nOWA GI the existence a the CIA,
Subcor.-emitt,,,,o and while l'is wao very glad to hear about it he felt that
?uaaybe the Congress should knew =ore about what it did. M. Oz.-nacre
. said the Subcommittee bad debed thin point seriously. lie noted
that Mr. Dulles never cwrozneated or a.-1\swered criticism or charace
of znistaUes la istclligexce nor di4, he respond to favorable comment,.
The Subcommittee znenlbers fait that if they were to report? on their
reviews in inteilizence nutters they wou/d only reveal to the exIox,Lion
? i
areas ?for further attempts at penetration. /4r. $isk said he felt
that if the it,slos Conz,zittee hearleas did nothing else they were ._
. profitable in that they had brought out the Jurisdiction of t,he .4=ed .?
Services Subcommittees.
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.3'41tICO C. rrat0A (R. P. ao
In favor of the Joint Comarnittes propor,aloo sayins he had for it
tirne blne deeply concerned about intelliseec?e failures, 1.54,:i7ticulctr17
Pearl liarLor and Kwrea. He said Le had at. ea a committee wach
? wts tolti 30 hours 'before the 10,:rth 'Korean invaelon that everyt
?in V.OVA+ Was all right and tha suboeque4tly he had asked, for
?Admiral Iiiillenkoettoes resignation. re further illferred tbat
Adutlral lallenkoetter had vegdzned as 44 restat of this. lie
felt tho present act up et' CIA was OA* loria he was conecruedkccauoc
? Lis naval reserve activitio.0 ho,? had boon Oven four svarate
fisuros a ttts member of ZUZOiWA missiles and tau wondered
if this indicated zood coordinatie4.
17. At least live thleVatO V1140/3 the quoctioa was z.?a%cd one?
? viditness or another 44.S to 'whether um4or the Scant Colr.strtitte. prinaccaica
the Jurisdiction would -apply to the VZ,A, Mre. 'Kelly stated that it
would. Since Mr. illestaneu referred specifically to a Joi?nt
Committee on Central Intellizence Auency, 1-4,. was queried whoto.n,
this would isclade the FLI. I.4e said it would net altheuel Choy do
pick up some foreivz intellizenco azd. therefore, they rai3ht bo
involved in some "liaison caDiacity. ITwfiever. he? acreed t".iiat it
would bet iciar.oazinz,r, to the national security if the lil5Z were to be
iu1/7 included in Us till.
Attachment
?GC:LAX:Jett
Dictributent
DCZ
DDC1
?
la
DWI)
ZDJI
DDiS ?
1.e3islative * (a)
LAIMENCE 1-10t15170N
General Conned
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.RUL PS COLD/11=Zr.
U$E litZlnaLtLENTATIVES
Ernith, Howard W. (D. , Va.). Chain%Nut
Colmar, William M. (D. ? Mia.)
liaddeu? Zlay 3.(D., lad.)
Dolanoi, .1ames (D. ? N. Y. )
Trimble, jairao3W. (D.? Ark.)
Thoraberry,?Texas)
Bolling, Richard (D. ? Mo.)
O'Neill, Thomao P. 3. (1). ? Masa.)
Elliott, Carl (D. ? Ala.)
Sizk. F. (D., Calif.)
Drovra. Clareeee S. (R., Ohio)
ROCCE4 Zip Carroll (It., Term.)
Eit. Georges kr.atlaarino (R.,
N. L)
Smith, H. Allen (a. ? Calif.)
liaff,maxia =num (R? ? 114 )
T. M. Carruthers, Clerk
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