INTERVIEW GIVEN BY MARSHAL JOSIP TITO, PRESIDENT OF YUGOSLAVIA, TO SHERWOOD EDDY GROUP, HEADED BY DR. J. HUNTLEY DUPRE, AT BRIONY, ON JULY 29, 1953, IN THE FORENOON

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP83-00423R001300200002-3
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 8
• Document Creation Date: November 9, 2016
• Document Release Date: February 19, 1999
• Sequence Number: 2
• Publication Date: July 29, 1953
• Content Type: REPORT

25X1X6
590
INTERVI W GIVEN BY MARSHAL JOSIP BROZ TITO, PRESIDENT OF
25X1X6
Following is a list of persons w : 25X1X6
1. Kiro Gligorov, deputy-director of Federal planning.
2. Ivan Boricevic, secretory of the Central Committee of SSJ (Union of Trade
3. Veber, representative of Trade Unions.
Unions of Yugoslavia)
4. Voja Popovic, second president of the Union cooperatives of the Peoples Republic
of Serbia
5. General Loncarevic, of State Secretariat for National Defense
6. Dr. Olga Milosevic, general Secretary of Yugoslav Rod Cross
7. Voja Djuka.novic, secretary of Health Commission
8. Zivojinovic and Krahtis, representatives of Public education Commission
9. Vikentije Prodanov, patriarch of Serbian east-orthodox church
10. Abdulah HOdric, imam of the moslem mosque at Beograd
11, Milan Dobrovoljac. vicor-general of old-catholic church
12. Rev. Milan Smiljc.nic, president of the Union associations of east-orthodox clergy
13. Milutin Petrovic, member d' the Executivo of the Union associations of east-
orthodox clergy, editor of "Vjeenik",organ of the Union
14. Dr. Albert Voje, president of the Union of Hebrew confession parishes
15. Gustav Vlahov, secretary of the Commission for Social Welfare within SIV
(Federal executive council)
16. Branko Draskovie, head of Department for prose and information
25X1X6
"I would first of all like to emphasize that we are greatly honored by
the reception by Mr. President, and that we are again received hero with
the same amiability as the year before. To are so kindly received in
your country, so friendly and sincerely that we feel quite at home here.
For a long time back we have learned to respect your gallant and industrious peoples
and we have cultivated today a feeling of fraternity towards them. May I thank you,
Mr. President, and add that you have been very often and very profusely quoted by
every one of the 55 members of our Seminary, who were last year on a visit to
Yugoslavia.
25X1X6 QUESTION b In what part do you consider Yugoslavia to have made greatest progress
for the last twelve months with respect to execution of your plans?
A(: I think that the greatest task we accomplished in the last 12 months
is the mastering of foodstuffs crisis caused by the draught. We have
succeeded in overcoming it without particular difficulties with the help from abroad,
above-all from the U.S.L. In addition to that we have completed the execution of
our Five-Year plan with regard to most important undertakings, so much so, that at
present very little of this Plan remains to be done. Now we are quite at ease about
it.
We achieved, besides, some other rather important results this year. I
want to say hare that we have straightened some things pertaining to economy domain
which were consequential of the application of Soviet methods, which at that time
was rather successful; we have completely abandoned the system of acquisition by
forced sale; further the question of poasant working cooperatives is settled on
volunV4Wdtx mt5pnRelesse 1ftW0'9Yi'M p6dAtIR 1 8 OO42p Q 1QD1 3cooperativea of
uncertain living conditions to dissolve. In short, we have givet: full freedom to
 Interview - Mar hal_Tito and
agricultural production. The p.W.C'e. were organized on free basis before, too,but
today we have passed special decree about it.
25X1X6
This year has been marked, besideo, by some political successes. One
of the largest in that respect is the final repulsion of the pressure of USSR. The
outcome of our resistance is today visible; it is clear that we have been victorious
and that our way was the right one. It is now clear that our methods - then severely
criticised - have proven to bo correct and that the acts we have been asked by them to
commit are now considered to be wrong according to their own confession. Further it
has been shown that it was necessary for us to withstand a five-year cold war to be
victorious.
25X1X6
Which are the main differences between communism in
Yugoslavia and in USSR and how did it happen in 1948,
when the break was apparent, that the USSR have not attacked Yugoslavia?
it SW : Much could be said about the differences. The present day practice and
the desistance in some methods are showing best what the difference is. But it is far
from meaning that it can be wiped out. The difference is still rather great, also
in theoretical standpoint with respect to future development, where they are as yet
not prepared to make concessions. I would only say that the essential difference
exists in the attitude to relations between states, small and big, also in the point
of view about future development of the world. To want all states to be equal, each
state to have right to free development, no one to have right to interfere with the
internal order of any country. They have imagined, and as yet have not abandoned the
idea that the USSR as a groat power has the right to interfere with internal quos-
tions of a foreign country.
You have asked why they have not attacked Yugoslavia in 1948, at the
time they were strong and the Western world rather weak. It is not difficult to
answer your question. First of all they were aware that any new conflict would have
far-reaching consequences, - it could grow to a World War, of which they were afraid.
Secondly, Yugoslavia had at that time a very strong army and the unity of her peoples.
They knew very well from their own experience with Finland what difficulties they had
in conquering a united nation. In World War II the Yugosl?v peoples had six occupiers
but they knew how to defend themselves. The Soviet rulers headed by Stalin had enough
political wisdom to be aware that any such attack on Yugoslavia, which possessed
unity of her peoples and a strong army, would be of no profit to them. They thought
that they could force Yugoslavia on her knees applying economic and political pres-
sure. They were wrong because they thought they could subdue our country by means
of a "cold war." But it has been seen during the last five years, that the "cold
war" was lost by them, not by us.
If I understand Marx correctly, Marx maintained that the class-
less society could be attained only when capitalism had fully
accomplished all its tasks. How is Mr. "vesident looking at this, considering the
practice in Yugoslavia?
ANSM i First of all the propositions of Marx do not relate only to capitalistic
society, but to the entire development of society in the past. ht the development of
society and also of nature we are looking dialectically. Incontestably, the new
is ever born of old. Just as capitalism was born of feudal society so from
capitalism will come a society of higher order. The technical and other developments
of the society involve the necessity of coming of a more perfect system of internal
government and so on, in matters of economy, the economic factor influencing political
factors as well. In Yugoslavia we are going from capitalistic society, we are build-
ing u14 p i IRLgLSgt@mlo9g/9ME AcR b9w2 4O bo2igto consideration all
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elements which are burdening our country - the technical and industrial backwardness,
old backward conceptions - and we are moving forward in harmony with all this. But
we do not move forward stiffly, according to a pattern. The theory of Marx is
serving only as an axiom to choose the general line, but we are always seeking the
least painful way. Marx has said that the revolution is like a midwife; if she is
skilled she can spare the mother much pain at birth, but if she is not that, both the
mother and the child can die. In quest of new ways for a new system we came in
conflict with the Soviet conception according to which we ought to have gone their
own way - the way of barricades, cutting off heads of thousands and thousands of
people, the way of force and of police terror. We have declined to choose that way
and we are going now our own way. Every Western country has its own specific ways
and today they are already going over to a now social system. Of course this is not
quite visible as yet, but they are all moving to that goal. The means of production
have reached such level that it is impossible now for them to be governed by private
individuals; the society must get hold of them.
I can say that I have perused more than once and with great
interest the history of the fighting of Yugoslav peoples for
their independence during the Wcr. I would wish to ask Mr. $Wosident whether the
same will and power to fight for independence of their own country is still existing
with Yugoslav peoples?
ANSWER: I can reply to Mrs. Doty that such will is existant in much greater
degree. The praxis has revealed the benefits of the gains Yugoslav peoples have
won during the war and they are now determined more than ever to retain what they
have won through fight. In the conflict with USSR the peoples of Yugoslavia have
seen the meaning of independence and of force derived from their unity, also what can
be achieved by a united nation. P nd that is why they are now resolved more than ever
to preserve their acquisitions.
I T.ould like to ask Mr. President in which direction lies
the community of Yugoslav economy, industry and what steps
should be undertaken to utilize fully the economic potential and natural wealth of
Yugoslavia?
I .con rely at once that we are not thinking of autarchy for Yugoslavia
although our country is rich in raw materials. Our economic development
aims at making those raw materials accessible in ever greater degree to our peoples
in order to raise their standard of living. When we have brought our engineering
techniques to high level we will then have at our disposal large quantities of raw
materials and we will then lead intensive exchange trade with foreign countries to
get such things as we are in need of. In short, our aim is to realize the highest
possible standard of living for our men.
I nouldlike to know how your Government proposes to effect
the collectivisation of agriculture in such regions as
barren caret, where there are very small plots of arable land, very poor at that
and of very meagre yield.
3 The newly brought decree has dealt with that matter and we have just
dissolved many collectives in such re
ions
th
g
, as
ey were unprofitable
and could not subsist. It is now a matter of coordinating the collective and individ.
ual mode of land-working. We will have, no one knows for how long, the individual
mode of. landworking, wherever the oollective mode proves to be impossible or the
people decline to work the land collectively.
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Wo wont force them to work collectively. But still, we must direct
our agriculture to,intensive mode of.exploitation and such mode presupposes large
complexes of land, In one wqy or another our peasants must associate. We have a
few categories of collectives. In_thehitherto highest category we have allowed par-
tial dissolution of cooperatives in compliance with the wishes of the peasants-and
have favoured the,formatign of general type of cooperatives, consisting of individual
econmy 'units with some lend complexes being worked collectively. As regards
caret-regions, considering the mechanization and ever growing technical achievements,
44 will
robabl
t
p
y go over
o vine-growing eor-fruit-growing in these parts, particularly
Cattl
W
L-___ 1~____~
-f're'e di
e
e
ng
25X1X6
25X1X6
have been addressed to me.,before. I have replied that, in principle,
we are not against it, but that conditions for such investments are quite different
from those before the war. I.e. before our revolutionary transformation, also dif-
ferent from those prevailing in other countries where private capital is being in-
vested. I may briefly say that if some foreign concern would wish to invest their
capital in a certain factory of ours because for the time being we have not sufficient
means for rapid development of the said factory, then the state would make a con-
tract with the foreign concern in conformance with which such concern would, after a
fixed number of years, get back the invested sums with fixed interest, either in
goods or in currency, but otherwise it could not interfere with the work of the
factory. Such are our conditions and they can not be anything else in a socialistic
country.
Hitherto we have not practiced such procedure but such questions
g economy
u
w
e er Y
Yugoslavia has
invited foreign capital to that end, p n
__cm also interested to know whether there to
a possibility of investment of private capital in Yugoslav industry and generally
in Y
oslav ?
piir'ts of our country, and it can be bred collectively. The cattle need not be idi-
viduai; it can be assembled and we c~,.,there_cattle-breeding cooperatives. There
e,. '5r ouo, possibilities there. Wu..will not paralyze thereby. the democratic process
w l only help the development of such mode of existence as was proved to be
te,tet e;Pd was. Accepted by the peasants. Many collectives have been formed in
these regions against our better judgment and we have never insisted on their forma-
ton because they had no chance of eu~iatenae,.
I would wish .t .k pw tiRhat is?your attitude with regard to
investment of foreign ce ital a d
h
th
I would like to ask some questions about the education. After
the broak with USSR in 1948 you were obliged to change your
school programs in relation to the teaching of historical materialism. Now I um
interested to know whether you have developed as particular educational subject to
educate the young citizen, as you would wish him to be, and in connection with that,
whether you have done something to make that education appear in materialistic as-
pect, so that the materialism, gradually and in the course of time, could be ac-
cepted by population of Yugoslavia, in which case the organized religion would have
to disappear.
The education in our elementary and secondary schools is as in other
such schools in the world. In these-schools is being taught that which
every citizen should know. Vic are now correcting some things, particularly those
relating to historical development of our peoples, because they were not true, since
we have more nationalities than one. Fundamentally the development of schools
moves in harmony with social development. We must teach the children that our system
is good. In USA, the children are taught that American democracy is the beat and no-
body can blame you for it. We have the right to say that our system is the best
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Interview - b& rehal Tito and
25X1X6
for us and that we must go that way in our development. It would be eroneous to
Suppose that we are stuffing children with communist doctrine - even the grown-up
people can understand that with difficulty. But our children must know how diffi-
cult the life was before the war and what difficulties our peoples have had to over-
come in the course of their history, with what difficulties they have achieved
their unity, how difficult the social conditions were before, and how difficult it
was to conquer freedom. They must know that, or else they will not become conscious
citizens of the country, nor would they know how to conserve these achievements.
But we are teaching no doctrine to our children; when they come up to the univer-
sity, when they grow up, then we have another program for their education. There
again, much of the earlier programs and programs of the Western schools are to be
found. We are not yet satisfied with our text-books, but we are gradually adapting
them to the needs of our country.
We know of difficulties and evils that the church has committed
in Yugoslavia. Con it be maintained that at the present time
there is a positive contribution of the church in Yugoslavia?
: There are several religions: catholic, east-orthodox, the most numer-
ous, moslim, protestant and others. I must say that we have the
greatest difficulties with catholic religion, i.e. with catholic clergy of higher
orders. Our lower clergy, which forms the greatest part in catholic religion are
favorable to cooperation with the state and are accommodating themselves to circum-
stances and to actual conditions. On the other hand, the higher clergy incited by
the Vatican are making various difficulties for us. You see that abroad, too.
Stepinac who was a volunteer at the front of Salonica, has Jumped over all stairs upon
the seat of a bishop and today, as an upstart, he is made a cardinal. For us he is a
political culprit and war criminal, and has been tried and condemned as such. Every-
body in this country knows that. He was the representative of the Vatican in Yugo-
slavia, used by the Vatican to make difficulties for us in international relations
and in home affairs. It is not a question of religious animosity here but rather of - -
political matter - struggle of the Vatican against such reality as a united Yugo-
slavia. The Vatican had pretended to build up here a catholic formation of Austria,
Hungary, Poland and our country, possible with Italy. With the formation of the
United Yugoslavia Vatican lost these positions but it fought with all its might to
prevent the consolidation of such a state as the new Yugoslavia is, regardless of
the fact whether socialist or any other system were ruling it. Still the Vatican
fought against Yugoslavia. On international plane the Vatican presented its fight
against Yugoslavia as the conflict between actual authority and the religion. We
are not so stupid to imagine that the religion could be eliminated from the thoughts
of men by forced, administrative measures. The religion is private matter of
individuals and we can do nothing there, nor are we trying to do anything. But we
want the representatives of the church to acknowledge the present state of things
and to perform only church duties.
Do you have any difficulties with moslim group and is there
any resistance to certain administrative measures?
AMM: That is already the thing of the past. We have had to peas a decree
forbidding the women's face-hiding wear and there was some resistance
to it, not from the head of moslim religion but from some individuals and lower
clergy. But that was easily done with and there is no difficulty now. I must say
that
beet X r a en a~W~7 . mk'&4i}9%7?y10?Abh ~r ggpg A~1~gg dg0~?i~th we are having the
s.
 25X1X6
Has the national. and_ religious conflict between Croatians
and ans increased in strength or diminished?
It is clear that it hasdiminishad. We are havin
no more
bl
i
g
pro
ems w
th
it. ' If there is some trifle
it is a
tt
f
,
ma
er o
the
have,to undertake legal steps, and we do not
ps, provided by the Act of 1945 and by Constitution. Such
trends are opposed on the spot by SSRNJ organizations. Regardless of decentraliza-
tion, offering to each republic the utmost of self-government, the unity of peoples
is etegdily growing; it develops more and more in the conscience of men and the dif-
ferences between nations are disappearing gradually. The process goes on and often
we do not perceive ourselves how far it has gone, so it can be said today, that it is
a thing of the past.
We are a country in incredible impetus of revolutionary development, re-
gardless of the fact that there is no armed fight at present, that such fight is
come to and long before, but we have to fight for the formation of new society, to
fight on economic ground, to fight for industrialization. We are, besides, one of
the most backward countries on the Balkan Peninsula, a country with a number of
different nations, and a country in which after Versailles incredible fighting
reached its climax during the last war, when it ended almost in extermination. In
such country as this burdened with immense ballast of the past, with national hate
at the highest pitch we would have achieved nothing had we formed different parties.
What would be the meaning of formation of them? The parties would be formed in
Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, and all
these parties would fight on the line of nationality] a state with such parties
would not be able to subsist. We had to choose the way of national unity. During
the war we have been forming National Front, expulsed the occupier and annihilated
all that was no good. To do that we had to have one program, one thought, one party.
Today again, when we are making the greatest efforts for a happier future of our
peoples, we can not allow formation of various parties, which would throw stones
under wheels of our development. When the development of a nation takes the road
of anarchy that nation must perish. Then a conscious factor must intercede, this
factor being the present authority plus consciousness of our men. That is why we
can not allow the formation of different parties. We can not allow that because we
will have our prisons full. It is much better to tell the people "you have no
right to organize different political parties, go to SSRNJ (Socialist Union of
working people Yugoslavia's) there is a program there, debate within SSRNJ, agree
or disagree with the propositions there and if the majority are against you you
must give way, but if the majority are on ' y
your side, then your opinion will prevail."
I
r i
1 suppose that Mr. Palmsr did not think of liberty of speech
but rather of our permission to form different political groups of parties. I will
answer that. question immediately.
I think that we have political liberties. Go through Yugoslavia, talk
to peasants, citizens, various reactionary remainders and you will see
that the people are speaking freely, that some of them are reviling, but they won't be
put in prison fo
t
t3
!
own poop e I an thinking at the moment of
Jol tical liberties.
g
ve e basic liberties to you
r
0, 018 as George Xaehington ve his - 1
a
We are respecting you as the founder of new Yugoslavia as much
as we respect George Washington as the founder of USA. I
WaAtJ, ask you whether you are
really intendi to i
n
th
8outh,A13gER SJ FIT,%lie ~gt'u~
avoid such internal wars.
o at list?elave eorb~of6b?OayoY 3between North and
people:: We wish to
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I would, li,Xe, tQ ,.your opinion about the forces that are
"
Working
for peace and t a a wor t, for war?
It has,rbeen clear, ?for e..eme_ time, I think, which forces have hitherto
worked for war, and for peace. But today the position is being slight-
the way we have
,eolected,
nogrins, Macedonians.,_and_to Bosnia and Hercegovina, to help them raise their
standard." But if we had political parties there would be difficulties and Monte-
n.Mgrins, Macedonians and Boaniace would obtain no help -it would not be possible to
t4~ ~'he., mend ft=_abroad should study our development to be able to see the
Page 7
In addition to that, we had undeveloped and highly developed republics.
Slovenia was highly developed, Croatia a little lose developed, Serbia still a
little lose.,developed republic but more developed than Bosnia-Hercegovina, Macedonia
and , So;ntenegro. Just because we had centralized parer' at that time and no party-
people we could say to our more developed.countriee "you must give away to Monte-
ly altered,- the war is much more remote now than it ever was. Owing to armistice
in Korea a big progress towards peace is made. It would, of course, be a delusion
if one imagined that we have come to a point at which we could sleep quietly about it.
There will ever be people who still want to settle some problems through war. It
has been clearly seen which states represented in the United Nations were for peace-
ful settlement and which were against such settlement in Korea. I want to say that I
consider America, together with remaining peace-loving peoples to have contributed
to end Korea war. I would like to point out that such acts can only be welcomed
and I would wish American foreign policy to be such in the future, too.
25X1X6 I would like to ask your opinion about the Balkan federation,
in what condition it is today, also about your attitude
towards European federation?
AN t1 Firstly, the Balkan federation is a thing of the future; it must
grow ripe. I must say openly that such federation, comprising so backward coun-
tries as Bulgaria and Albania, would stress our economy today. Our peoples are no
longer desirous to support the backward nation at the expense of their own standard
of living.
?5X1 X6
In similar position we find the European federation; the matter is not
yet ripe. Such federation is even more remote than Balkan federation. It is not
a bad idea and it will one day be realized. But today is too soon for it. However
it does not moan that one should not work for such federation; but those who think
that it can be quickly realized are having illusions; they do not see many reasons
that speak today against it.
I want to ask you what influence the union of Germany would
have on the peace in Europe?
ANSW t That depends on internal system of Germany, on her conception of rela-
tions with other peoples, on what pretensions the system will sustain
wi{'z regard to other countries - it depends on many things. But the present condi-
tions, such as they are, cannot last for ever. The position is, moreover, such as
to make a coherent solution very difficult.
25X1X6
OR = I am a Japanese and I consider American foreign policy of
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that account very interested about your opinion, your free criticism of American
policy.
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AN As President of a Republic I have no right to criticize the policy of
another state.
25X1X6
I am a protestant priest, I was glad to see the achievements
of Yugoslavia under your leadership. I would like something
of these great achievements to be profitable to us, too. That is the reason I de-
cided to ask you how Yugoslavia could contribute to the settlement of conflict
between Russia and the Western World.
Arm: As to profiting from us, that will only lead you in trouble with
McCarthy. However, I would answer this question. I believe that the
example and experience Yugoslavia's can be of considerable profit to other countries.
Of course not in their entirety, but still in many things. First of all the example
reveals to many small nations and states how a small people, conscious of himself and
of his power, can exist even if it does not please a great power and how he can win
the right is a big contribution concerning small peoples.
Furt herour, eself-government. That
and our way with regard to building up of socialist system
presents the socialism in much better light than is the case with USSR, because a
different way from the right one has been selected there. We have given encourage-
ment to peoples in respect to deepening and broadening of democracy, forming of free
and conscious citizens - these facts arewell known the world'over. In a sense this
can diminish the fear of inevitableness of'Soviet aggression. I believe that
Yugoslav experience will bring about the charge of things in the mind of men of
cominformist turn, who have put their faith with USSR, the change being favorable to
Yugoslavia and detrimental to the methods employed by tJSt. This, too, is useful
2to, JJL~ ids world and to progress of humanity.
b What words would you address to our citizens in America
about the nature and perspective of Yugoslav communist
experiment in which you are so powerfully and so hopefully engaged?
Before replying to this question I would like to say something. I am
glad of the chance to have had a talk today with ladies and gentlemen
from America and I would like you to find yourselves, from other people as well, the
acievver to your questions while travelling through Yugoslavia. I think it best for
you to talk with many people and you will probably get the answers which you de-
sired to tear from me. I would wish you to look upon things in Yugoslavia without
prejudice, to keep always in mind the past of our country and all the phases she
had to go through and you will then understand much more easily some of the short-
comings still present with us. I would wish you to believe in one thing, namely,
that we are moving steadily forward and that our only desire is to see our people
live a happier life.
Finally, I would like to say that what we are doing here we do not look
upon an a communist experiment because communism is a very remote possibility. Be-
sides, for us it is not an experiment at all - it is a socialist building up of our
country. Perhaps you call it experiment because we have made some mistakes. That
is true, we did make several mistakes but we have recognised them at once and made
then good. We are not ashamed of our mistakes because the forming of a new society
is --"ull of difficulties implying often making of errors. I would wish the men in
Ame-ica to understand our mode of life, our aims, particularly to comprehend that we
are not a country where an experiment is tried, to be later on imposed upon other
countries. We have never spoken in that sense and we never intend to do no. In every
country the people are able to find the way they consider the best and we will not
impose our system to anybody. Our aim is to form the best democracy of the world.
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