CIA CAREER SERVICE BOARD

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: C
• Document Page Count: 22
• Document Creation Date: December 9, 2016
• Document Release Date: August 14, 2000
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: July 2, 1953
• Content Type: MIN

I A
Approved For Release 200 DP80-01826R000500080001-2
2 July 1953
Present
Mr. Lyman B. Kirkpatrick
Chairman
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Mr. Sherman Kent
Colonel Matthew Baird
Mr. Lawrence R. Houston
25X1A9a
Reporter
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001%04/05 CiA DI''810-01826R000500080001-2
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I will call the meeting to order, and inasmuch as
several of us have a 5:00 o'clock meeting with the Director, this one will
truly be a one-hour meeting. The first order of business is the item,
"Minutes of the 7th Meeting of the CIA Career Service Board, held 21 May 1953."
These were circulated to you. Does anybody have any comment or correction?
If not, I will consider it the consensus of the Board that these minutes
are approved as presented.
The second item on the agenda is the fact that Mr. Kent's membership
expires as of 30 June, and the Board is requested to nominate somebody to
succeed Mr. Kent or Mr. Kent to succeed himself for the period through the
end of the year.
Mr. Amory wanted me to suggest Mr.18heldon to the
extent that Mr. Sheldon has taken a great interest in it, and they have a
good Board down there, and he thought that he would like to suggest his name
to the Board.
25X1A9a I second it.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Are there any other nominations?
MR. KENT: Are you going to have any representatives on this Board
from the Personnel Office?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Yes, that is a matter which right at the moment is
somewhat in abeyance because of the resignation of General Morris, so that
at the moment there is obviously nobody, but there would have to be a
representative. Ad interim there is nobody in that position, and today,
why, the only representative is of course.
MR. KENT: Could I nominate with this matter in view Mr. Baird to
act if elected for the Personnel office in addition to the Training Office?
The Personnel Office is one in which he has already had a good deal of
experience in.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Well, let's handle the matter of the nomination to
replace the representative of the DD/I first, and then we will get to that
shortly. Are there any otkm nominations to represent the DD/I on a rotating
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05 : CIA-RDp$0-1826R000500080001-2
basis? We will consider the nominations closed, and we will then present
that nomination to the Director for approval.
Now you have raised the matter of a representative for the Personnel
Office. I suggest that we refer that to new business at the end and get
through this Agenda.
MR. KENT: Right.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I see no purpose in may orating on the Steering
Group to any other extent than simply saying that I think this has proved
a very valuable way of expediting the action of the Board. I think we
have saved considerable hours in the meetings of the over-all Board
particularly. And I am particularly appreciative of the time
and Baird have put on it, and unless the Board itself has any strong ob-
jections, I recommend that we continue this with the clear understanding
that all members of the Board are welcome to attend any of these meetings,
and that the only reason I have asked these specific members to attend is
that they are interested and are willing to devote the extra time towards
pursuing these matters which we have under cognizance. Otherwise I think
I will just leave you to read the minutes of this Steering Group at your
leisure unless I have any questions about it. Now we have already approved
the minutes. Mr. Sheldon has been nominated for the replacement for Mr.
Kent for the DD/I complex, and this takes care of Item 3 on the Steering
Group.
Kirk, could I suggest the Steering Group has taken
action on a number of things. Would the Board care to ratify as Board
action the actions which the Steering Group took? For example, one
of them was the hearing of the appeal and making an official recommendation
to the Director on the case o which was a formal action which
ought to be taken in the name of the Board rather than in the name of the
Committee, if I may make that suggestion.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Are there any objections to the Board ratifying the
Steering Group inasmuch . . I must admit I more or less considered it
- 2 -
MMMOMOMMOOL"
ar-
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Ah a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
as a Board action. If there are no objections we will consider that the
Board has placed its stamp of approval on these actions.
All of them?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I think so .
But if some of them haven't read it they might
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Put in there that if there are later objections, if
they will call it to our attention we will take the necessary action.
This fourth item is the Staff Study "Career Development Slots", dated
26 June 1953, which has been presented. In a nutshell it simply suggests
that the so-called rotation slots apparently assigned to specific offices
be picked up in a basket and all placed under the Board rather than having
to assign them to specific offices. The record as indicated by Attach-
ment B appears to indicate that the DD/I complex has made the most use
of the rotation slots, having thus far used 10 out of their 18, and the
DD/P has used one out of 12, and the rest are, I presume, unused. None
of the 10 assigned to the CIA Board itself are used, were they?
That is right.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: So actually we have used 11 out of 50. This may
become a fairly acute issue with this new personnel crisis. Consequently,
any action we may take may be a short-lived one.
Particularly with regard to the second recommenda-
tion b. on the top of page 3. I think that this action is all right, and
that we just couldn't operate under that paragraph.
MR. KIRKPAThICK: I would think that to go over this a great deal
in discussion there would not be too much gained, particularly if there
might be action taken in the next couple of days as it would just negate
the whole thing. Is the feeling of the Board that this action is justified
provided rotation or career development slots still exist?
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 i a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
It has been a nuisance the way it has been, and if we could
get them put aside if there are enough to do it, that would be a better way
to do it.
COLONEL BAIRD: It has been a great nuisance to me too because I have
been carrying . . . I don't know why the DD/P has not used these rotation
slots.
We did away with them because they were getting to be
such a headache for us.
COLONEL BAIRD: Yes, but they are on the Office of Training slots.
I thought there were some we hadn't used, and we asked
the other offices to pick up the bodies rather than to . . . I am talking
now about some other transfers I know of.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Let's consider it is the sense of the Board that the
policy advocated here is approved and that further implementation will
depend upon what happens as far as the over-all T/O and strength of the
Agency is concerned.
I think in any event it would be a good idea to have a
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I think the CIA Board is probably as good as any
spot to have them because you get them out of one complex, and it will be
a fairly across the board administration.
COLONEL BAIRD: Mr. Chairman, I am assuming the logical result of the
approval of this action would be that the 11 people now occupying JOT slots
that should properly be occupying rotation loan slots would automatically
be transferred.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I see no reason why they shouldn't be providing we
have the slots.
COLONEL BARD: If you don't have them on the rotation loan slots
there won't be any JOT program either.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I would think that would be one of the technicalities
we will have to work out when we see what Congress is going to do.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
COLONEL BAIRD: Should we make a recosonendation that, if possible,
this "cushion" of slots be retained . . if that is possible?
MR. KIRKPATTRICK: I would be unwilling to advocate that at the
present time until we see what the over-all situation is. There are
going to be a lot of factors involved, and there will be enough of us
represented on any group or body that the Director sets up to arbitrate
these ceilings, so that I don't think you have to worry about that par-
ticular factor, but I don't think we ought to commit ourselves to that.
Do we have to take action on the 22 that are presently
in the slots? In other words, if we wipe out the rotation loan slots,
then there are no slots for 11 people and there are 11 people on the JOT
slots. T
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I think that is going to be approached from a
practical sense. Undoubtedly you have at least that such of a nucleus to
retain.
7_
Item 5, Interim report of the Professional Section Panel, "The
Process of Selecting New Career Employees", dated 23 June 1953. Mr.
group has labored assiduously in the vineyard over this one
obviously and has cone up with what I consider to be a good Staff Study
on the subject. There is obviously still considerable divergence of opinion
within the Agency over how this will work. What the Professional Selection
Panel is seeking is guidance at the moment, and they have asked that this
Board, if possible, indicate to them whether we feel that they are on the
right track and that this is generally what is wanted. This is generally
how we see the Career Selection System working. Is there any convent on
their paper?
I have discussed it carefully with Mr. Amory, and I think
he feels this way: We certainly agree with the objectives of the paper
towards anything that will improve the careful selection of employees to
assure that they meet the very suitability factors. At the sale time I think
Mr. Amory agrees with the action of the Panel in referring this problem in
-5-
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 lmwAft
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
the paper to the office of Personnel and ask that they first see what can
be done with our existing machinery to improve its adequacy and then determine
what additional mechanism sight be necessary, and we feel that if we are
going to be caught here with our on duty down that it is going to become
even more important that we use our existing machinery and make it work.
After we see what can be done with that, it still may be necessary to have
some type of extra examination through office Career Service Boards or a
Comittee of Examiners, but first we ought to see if we can't make our
recruiters, and replacement officers, and supervisors do a better job in
line with these standards.
25X1 A9a COLONEL BAIRD: What is the reply of the Personnel Office to Mr.
It is being drafted now. It hasn't been formulated
yet.
COLONEL BAIRD: When did they get it?
The 15th of dune, I believe.
COLONEL BAIRD: I don't know what the answer is going to be, but I
suspect that the thing will boil down to a decision as to whether you want
the selection processes to be vested in the Personnel Office or whether
they be shared, and I feel very strongly that until there is a different
setup within the Personnel Office that they be shared. I don't think any-
body is infallible, and the more advice you can get of an expert nature on
the selection of career employees the better.
MR. KIRKPAThICK: That is the wrong way, I think, to look at it,
Matt, from this point of view. I don't think we ought to try and organize
on the basis of whether an organization or an once does well or poorly.
I think we ought to organize on the basis of whether the organization we
are creating is the proper organization to accomplish the methods we want.
,From that point of view I think you could sum it up this way. The system
prior to creation of any career service planning in the Agency was that
-6-
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Ak Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
Personnel hired the individual or vent out and recruited the individual,
shopped him to the appropriate office, and then hired him. The decision
on the selection was rested almost entirely between Personnel and the
office gaining the employee. That is the standard procedure in almost any
large organization. What is suggested here is that there be an across the
Agency Board which will look at the basic standards of selection and review
the individual on that basis. It seems to me that there should be an
across the Agency Board which assists in that selection rather than have
-one office man select him and then find after five years that the office
in another component says, "You selected him; we don't like him; and we
won't have him on this side of the house." In other words, we are going
to have cross Agency rotation, that is one thing, and if we are going to
have cross Agency compartmentalization, that is another thing. I think
most sound boards, whether it is in the military service, foreign service,
or anything else, the process of review by a board of senior officials is
a very sound one. It has been followed with a good deal of success, I
think, in the foreign service.
It has in the military too. They have done it
for, oh . . . I was appointed a provisional Second Lieutenant, Regular
Army, and after two years I had to go before a board of senior officers
25X1A9a
of Infantry because I was commissioned in the Infantry, although I trans-
ferred to the Air Force, and they gave me a three-day oral examination,
and when they inducted people from reserve officers after the war to
regular commissions, it was all done by boards. It wasn't done by the
Personnel office, or the Adjutant General's office, or by records. They
actually saw the individuals, interviewed them, and made up their minds
after an association with them. Of course, after the war there were some . . .
so many . . . they couldn't spend the time they did after World War I,
which, as I say, my board took me over the jumps for three days, and if
in the future with the freeze on additional personnel, a board of personnel
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
of this type could do that without being overworked.
KR. KIRKPATRICK: I think after we get things shaken down it would
be a very sound practice. I think there is some sand in this particular
paper because of the fact I think this Professional Selection Panel has
been a little misused up to now. I don't think a panel like this should
be brought in on administrative elimination. I think if it was something
that was discovered by the Security or Medical office that affects a man's
selection, that shouldn't go before a panel. I don't think that is what the
panel is for.
That w.a my impression when it first came up to the
Career Service Comittee before this program was set up, and this was
a device to permit interview by senior people of individuals that were
going to J0144lem to get an impression of a man as a man rather than does
he have his'* #" in good shape or anything like that. Is he the kind
of fellow that is going to fit in the kind of organization we have?
I think that a lot of the younger people we bring aboard . . . I don't
think a number of them would make the grade solely on personnel factors,
and I know very well that among some of the senior case officers in the
organization that they could tell in a couple of hours sitting with a
fellow if he had really disqualifying characteristics in this regard.
Now this is after their provisional trial. I
think the office heads will eliminate those clearcut cases. When you are
talking about radio operators who have had nothing more than a high school
education, if that, and they have been out for two years, and they have
"shacked up" with an Austrian dancer, or something of that kind, we just
accept their resignation. It would never come up to the Professional Selec-
tion Panel. Well, we go over them pretty carefully in my Career Service
Board when we jump them to a 9, as that is practically the officer candidate
grade, and to go to an 11 he has to have the potential of an officer. It
is easier for me because we have pretty close observation of our people,
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-d1 26R000500080001-2
and there is the technical competence which comes in, and their record
after they have had a two-year tour, how well they have kept their nose
clean. In fact, I would be glad to have them go before, if they really
want to make a career, an across the Agency Board, but I would want to
vary that period of time because six months in training and two years over-
seas tour would put them into the third year before you could consider
they are finished with the provisional tour.
COLONEL BAIRD: There is an additional factor there. The panel felt
that there was not set up either in money allocated or budgeted for and
not enough hours in the day for the panel as originally constituted to
interview the great numbers that were coming in. The other part was that
there is no file that you can now go to in the Agency and get the background
you ought to have actually before you perform the interview.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Well, that is perfectly true, but remedial steps
are being taken on that now.
COLONEL BAIRD: But that was the reason to bring in the Security
Office, and Training Office, and Medical Office because the combined files
would indicate one way or the other on a decision which without the com-
bination of all of those you might make a mistake. You might make a mis-
take on the individual.
Aren't there two separate things? One is the
initial selection and the other is the confirmation from a provisional
status to a regular status? Now on the initial selection I think the office
head or his Career Service Board should be advised by I&S and the Medical
that this man is or is not . . . like one of those TSS cases we had, and
then if there is a difference of opinion between Medical and I&S, refer
it to this across the board panel. This is on selection on hiring.
It is when they move from the provisional status to
regular status. That is when another look ought to be taken. How are
you getting along here? Is the guy's heart in the right place, etc.? That
-9-
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Ah
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
is an intangible factor which never shows up in any of the forms and
efficiency ratings.
That comment I just made was in addition to
this paper because this.. I felt, dealt with confirmation of a provisional
or rejection from a provisional status and not on the mechanism for
selection.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Well, I think rather than prolong this, in view
of the very short time we have today, that, if you would take
the minutes of the meeting and transmit those to the Professional Selection
Panel I think they will indicate very well the tenor of the Board's think-
ing on this. In essence it is that there is a need for a Selection
Panel or a board to sit, and I don't think it is clearly enough spelled
out in here that they will interview the individual because I consider
that the most important aspect of their work. Any of us can review files
and come to conclusions, but it is the talking to individuals that is the
important part of it, and that it should be done on the transition be-
tween provisional career, and that we do not consider that the Panel has
an appropriate place in administrative, or medical, or security aspects
of a turndown. In other words, those are some of the types of canes
they have been working with, and I think they are out of place there, and
I think it is a waste of their time and everybody else's because I think
that is something that can be straightened out between the Security Office,
and Medical Office, and hiring office.
There is one additional fact that I think I would simply
put in as a debating point, and that is that if this interview takes place
at the time they go from the provisional to the permanent, they have had
some time around the Agency, so you are talking to a fellow at least a
little bit knowledgeable to what you have to do. I think that is an
important factor in this, particularly in this Agency.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I would like to take one item out of order on this
which is not on the Agenda, but it concerns this individual,
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
of TSS, who was turned down by the Professional Selection Panel.
- 10 -
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
We heard a discussion of the reasons for turndown by It was 25X1 A9a
the judgment of this Board that further facts should be adduced in the
case, and, as a consequence of that, a representative of TBS, Mr. Edward
_ talked to and came to the conclusion that he was a
valuable man and should be hired. I believe that then talked
to you, did he not?
He did.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: He talked to you, and it was the general agreement
the man should be hired. I have a memorandum here from putting
in writing his views. Would the Board like to hear this, or would it be
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
perfectly willing to abide by the decision of the DD/P in the case? 25X1A9a
I would be willing to abide by DD/P's decision.
answered, I think, except for the philandering 25X1A9a
question which he wasn't in a position to get any data on. He answered
all the other questions that have been raised on all the other jobs he has
had, and his reason for wanting to come, etc., and they were perfectly
satisfactory and legitimate answers as nearly as I could ascertain.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Well, unless there is same indication to the con-
trary we will consider that matter as closed. You may want to notify him.
I will tell his. In other words, the action is that the 25X1A9a
Board is upholding the appeal and reversing the Panel? Is that correct?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: That is correct. I believe that is it.
I hated to have anything like this go as a reversal of
the Panel. I would say that in the light of additional evidence it is
decided to take an affirmative action rather than the reversal. The 25X1A9a
Panel didn't have any information to make any rational decision on it.
COLONEL BAIRD: May I ask why they didn't?
That is one of the mysteries of this particular case. 25X1A9a
COLONEL BAIRD: Because if they are going to sit at all taking up our
time and their time and bringing this kind of a thing up, if they are not
getting information . . .
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I think we might explore that a little because
I think that most of the information in that case was actually brought up
by I&S, wasn't it, and administrative reasons for not hiring?
COLONEL WHITE: I don't know, Kirk. This is the first I have heard
of it.
- There was an inadequate initial interview to start with.
The security check didn't turn up a lot of things they usually turn up for
reasons that weren't clear, and one of the major elements I recollected
was that he had six jobs in eight years, and there was nothing in the
record to indicate why he had changed jobs, so that one would have supposed
that it would have been because in the security check . . . but sometimes
those things don't . . . so I do think, Kirk, that it is worth having a
more detailed look as to why the interview wasn't better, and why certain
basic question hadn't been really nailed down all along the line.
The information available to the Panel is improving
a great deal.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Rad, would you send a letter from the Board through
DD/A to the Director of Security just pointing out we didn't feel there
was enough information in this for the Panel to make a selection and inquir-
ing as to why that was the case, pointing out that it is fairly important
as far as selection for career service to have more information such as
this.
I&S may feel that goes a little beyond their . . .
COLONEL BAIRD: It is hardly fair to Security I believe.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: You might address it jointly or just address it to
the DD/A and let him take action.
I think you will find he was recruited by TSS.
May I remind you of this? The major factor was that TSS
had had interviews with this man, but there still is no record of those
interviews aside from this one piece of paper. In other words, TSS was at
fault.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
You might send one of these memoranda to me and let me
take it up with TBS.
M. KIRKPATRICK: That is very interesting in view of this memorandum
I circulated in another capacity yesterday. There again we have this
conflict in recruiting plus the fact that we seem to make an awful lot of
strange statements to people in our recruiting.
Let's go on to the next item on the agenda, "Insurance Task Force
Recommendation," dated 16 June 1953. memorandum which we
distributed to you fairly well summarizes this, and in the interim between
transmitting this to you and the meeting, he has now come up with a formal
memorandum to the Director for the ADD/A's signature, placing this on an
actual formal status to acquire the money and get the Director's approval
for employing these consultants. I think everybody feels that this is a
worthwhile job which has to be done. The amount of money involved does
not seem to be exorbitant. Unless there is further discussion, should we
consider it approved and proceed.
MR. HOUSTON: We have been trying to help in various capacities
on this insurance problem, and we felt very strongly that it was a bunch
of non-professionals in a highly technical field, and we needed something
like this. There is no competence in the Agency to take care of it. it
is worth a good deal of money.
COLONEL BAIRD: I think Sherm and I both have a query. This $25 an
hour, I assume, is just SOP among these fellows.
MR. KENT: How many people are working at $25 an hour? One person or
a hundred?
This $25 an hour is when the an is actually on the spot.
In other words, he comes here and has a two-hour conference on CIA premises,
and that is 50 bucks, and then he may spend three days working over his
actuarial tables, etc., and that is not charged for.
COLONEL BAIRD: His home work doesn't count.
M3. HOUSTON: Our contract is with the company to pay him for his
services.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Amil AL
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I would like to skip item 7 on the agenda so we
can take it up last, and devote all of the rest of the time of the meeting
to it, and take up certain matters of new business which I think we can
dispense with rather rapidly. The first, there is an appeal of the
Professional Selection Panel decision by AD/RR on the case of
I would recommend to the Board that it submit this to the Steering Group
to consider it in its 13 July meeting.
I so move.
I second it.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: We are now moving ahead on the Executive Inventory,
and I think the most expeditious and secure way to handle this is to call
the individuals in who are concerned in two groups, which will mean there
will be about 20 or 25 in each group, and I will simply explain to them
what we have in mind, give them the details on the Executive Inventory,
and the material to carry it out, and ask that they return them Eyes Only,
and I think if we do it this way . . . Now, if you approve of that, that
is the system we will put forward.
I take it there would not be an office head and
his deputy at the same meeting?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: No, we will work it so we have the group split so
there won't be any conflicts there.
The papers are in front of each of you.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Headed "Special Meetings of the CIA Career Service
Board on 16 and 23 July 1953."
This would be the notice which goes out to the individual
asking him to came to the meeting. When he arrives the other two papers
would be handed to him at the meeting. That can be dovetailed to Mr. Kirk-
patrick's, which he could address, and the meeting would be held here, about
25 or 30 people on these two days.
You would hit the Assistant Director level, you say, in
the DD/I group?
14+
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Ak A
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Now the third item on the new business is simply
this. After discussion with several different individuals around the
Agency it seems to me that there are two difficulties plaguing the Career
Service Boards throughout the Agency of which . . . what do we have now,
23, Rud?
Yes, that is right.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: And I thought that maybe a way of getting our
general philosophy to those boards might be for myself to address them
a letter in the status of Chairman of the CIA Board giving our general
thoughts, and I have undertaken to draft the first one which I think it
will take me about three minutes to read. I would like to read it to you
and see if you approve in general of it.
(Mr. Kirkpatrick read draft of his letter.)
Yeas or nays?
The only question, wouldn't it be better to call
in the Chairman of each of those Career Service Boards and read that to
them and have a discussion? I think it would be profitable.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: We can simply add to that that I would be happy
to see them at any time.
Have them come in, read this to them, and ask
That is a good letter.
COLONEL BAIRD: Rather than send it?
Send it first so they can read it.
Send it and have a special meeting of the Chairman a
couple of weeks after it arrives.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I would be perfectly happy to do that, but I was
trying to think how I could see 27 different . . .
COLONEL BAIRD: That would be a special meeting?
Special meeting of the Board with all chairmen.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Let's do that. The last item on the new business,
- 15 -
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
which I simply want to mention, is this paper, "What Career Service in CIA
Means To You". I have knocked out a very rough, and I use that advisedly,
a sort of general broad outline of what I thought it should look like,
and I an asking meet on the 7th of 25X1A9a
July, and I will simply hand it to them and tell them to go to work, divide
the work up among them, and they have a 1 September deadline, and I will
also circulate that piece of golden prose to the rest of you so you may
comment, and either write them notes and tell then you think I an crazy
or you have other ideas which you think should be added to them. So
that will be moving very quickly.
Now back to item 7 on the agenda, "Matters affecting a Legislative
Program", dated 26 June 1953?
Under the heading of New Business I would like to 25X1 A9a
ask this question, and then see whether it is New Business. Is there
to be a new Assistant Director of Personnel appointed in the near future?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I will simply have to answer that along these
lines, General, that I have discussed the matter with the Director. I
don't believe the Director has made up his mind at the present time. I
think that there was some indication that he might be waiting the arrival
of the new DD/A. I don't know whether even mentioning a new DD/A's arrival
is legitimate or not, is it, Red?
COLONEL WHITE: I talked with him on the same subject day before
yesterday, and that is my understanding.
COLONEL BAIRD: May I ask when it is contemplated the new DD/A will
I can answer that.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: 1 October, I think, is the new understanding.
Then I can strongly recommend, at least you can
express my opinion to the DCI if the Board doesn't, that the job should
be filled right away. We shouldn't wait until 1 October, if that is what
it i4, because the new DD/A will have to sit in harness for several months
- 16 -
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 ,Mk A&
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
before he can make up his mind about anybody. I don't think we can wait
for him.
COLONEL BAIRD: That is particularly true if the DD/A is to be a man
that has not been in CIA.
COLONEL WHITE: I think everybody has a right to his own opinion. I
don't share that opinion at the moment. I don't think that it is entirely
contingent upon a new DD/A. I think there are a lot of factors that the
Director has considered and discussed rather privately with a number of
people, and while I have no objections at all to having anybody's sentiments
conveyed to the Director, I think at the moment it is probably something
which should be discussed with him and not here.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Is there any further comment on that?
COLONEL BAIRD: I would agree with I think 25X1 A9a
anybody who has worked as closely with the CIA Career Service Board an-many
of us have feel that it is most important that there not be a vacuum
in that position. I would think that the Agency should have an Assistant
Director for Personnel and as quickly as possible. It all goes along with
this Executive Inventory which we have been discussing now for a couple of
years.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Suppose I simply convey the feelings expressed by the
Board today to the Director.
COLONEL BAIRD: I guess only three of us have made an expression.
It certainly makes sense to me.
MR. KENT: It certainly does to me.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I will so convey that then. I trust my report will
be accurate reporting.
The more I become saturated with Career Service and have gotten into
the problems of the Agency, plus the more problems that have been brought to
me on almost purely personal matters as I.G., I have become completely con-
vinced that this Agency needs legislation for a Career Service Program.
I recognize that the problems with the Congress at the moment are difficult,
- 17 -
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 A r
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
but I don't think we ought to let that stand in our way, and I think that
the program should be launched with a carefully planned and constructive
long-term program to convince the Congress that we need it, which, of
course, is a little beyond the purview of the Board itself to do, but I
think we can at least work with the General Counsel's Office in developing
that type of legislation we need.
Nov I talked to Mr. Houston about this, and then I asked
to get together with Mr. Houston, and they have produced together a document
on the matters affecting a legislative program which I consider to be
sort of the first step. What probably is the best way to pursue this is
once again on a task force basis. What we have to do as a Career Service
Board, as I see it, is to indicate to the General Counsel what we need
in legislation, and then he will draft the legislation as we sit at his
elbow to make sure that he doesn't put in any clauses or things he
shouldn't do.
MR. HOUSTON: The first thing is tell us everything you want, and
then see if we can find some of it that can be done without legislation
and draft legislation to take care of the rest.
I think that is a very pertinent point, Larry, because,
if I recollect, the Career Service Committee meetings on this point,
recollect correctly, at them there was a frightful amount of argument
that went on mostly because of misinformation or no information. The
fact was never clarified as I was aware, and it seems that the selecting
out of these issues is the most important issue we have before us.
MR. HOUSTON: I think in the end was the only one that
understood, myself included.
COLONEL BAIRD: A neophyte question.. Larry, but I think it is all
pertinent. All this flap we are presently.in, and according to my reading
of Public Law 110, the Director has the power to appoint in number and any
individual he wants. It doesn't limit him.
- 18 -
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
MR. HOUSTON: The great catch there is that we are authorized to
spend funds for the employment of personnel, and the Congress can limit
funds for that purpose, so while maybe they can't put a technical ceiling,
they can certainly put a limit on the funds available for employment, which
is just as effective.
COLONEL WHITE: I think at the moment it is a practical matter.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: I would recommend we pursue this legislative program
in the following fashion: We appoint a task force representing one each
from DD/A, DD/I, and DD/P complex to work with Mr. Houston, and
and myself on seeing what we don't have that we need, and then coming
up with the legislation, the draft of the legislation, that we need to
present to the Second Session of the 83rd Congress, and simultaneously I
will undertake to work with the Legislative Counsel to develop and have
a program which I think will be a long-term program, and there are some
we can convince by talking to once and others we will have to talk to
several times. The key members of the Senate and House will have to pass
the bill. This bill is going to have controversial items in it as I see
it. One of the most important is the business of taking care of dependents
overseas and medical expenses for them in critical areas, and that bill,
as well knows, the military having been catching hell
on dependent benefits, but every Committee that has been sent out to study
it has come back with a favorable report, saying it is a vital part of the
service, and we are going to have to answer to Congress and tell why we
aren't a part of the Department of State on that issue. I am convinced
that if we are going to develop a dedicated career service we have to get
the legislation.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: With all due apologies for using a personal example,
the case of myself is a very good one where just through the grace of God
and a tin horn spoon I had eight months of leave I could take when I got
sick. I think that that sort of thing, I know, would never happen in a good
private industry. I go back to the organization on which I am still on leave
25X1A9a
25X1A
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
of absence after 11 years, and the Managing Editor there got TB and
actually worked, I think, a net total of four months in seven years, and
he never missed a week's paycheck.
MR. HOUSTON: I might say that was discussed at this course I
recently attended, discussed at length, and there is no question that
the large industries have very definite policies in that regard and are
expanding them steadily.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: You are going to be a very valuable asset at this
program.
in
That element of security which comes from either
disability or some temporary trouble or other, and if they can't turn to
the organization, and the organization says, "Look, it is against the law
for us to help you," which it does on various occasions, nobody is going
to take the requisite chances. I mean, why should they?
MR. KIRKPATRICK: And furthermore who is going to go jump out of an
airplane and figure that if he doesn't come back his wife and children
may have to go out and work for themselves?
I feel violent on it.
MR. HOUSTON: There are going to be some points which are going to be
extremely difficult to come to a hard and fast conclusion on. For instance,
you mentioned malaria of an employee not talking about the dependents. The
Compensation Board, as far as we can make out, since the middle of the
war has continued and is expanding its field in what it considers to be
line of duty rulings. Right after the war we were the first one that got
them even to consider a polio case. They not only took it, but they paid
on it. They are taking nervous diseases, heart diseases, and trying to
expand to give more adequate care to employees themselves, so it is going
to be awfully hard to come up with a solid recommendation of what we want
to expand what they are in the process of doing, but we will try to come
up with the latest information on what their rulings appear to be or
appear to be leading for.
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
 Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2
MR. KIRKPATRICK: There are a lot of aspects on it too. We are saying
on the one hand that we want a dedicated career service, and on the other
hand we tell them the Civil Service says this and this, and that is what
we are under, and then we say the Director has the right to fire anybody,
so you are not really under Civil Service.
MR. HOUSTON: We are not under Civil Service, but we are under the
Compensation Act, and under the Retirement Act, and that doesn't put us
under Civil Service.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: Well, we will then pursue that. You will nominate
somebody from your office, and Bud
. . .
And then call Rud about it.
MR. KIRKPATRICKt Thank you, gentlemen.
If you don't hear from me in a day or two, remind me
about it.
MR. KIRKPATRICK: We are now adjourned.
... The Board then adjourned at 1700 ...
25X1A9a
25X1A9a
Approved For Release 2001/04/05: CIA-RDP80-01826R000500080001-2