TRANSCRIPT - HU-1083/8405/01

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00788R001900640008-5
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 15
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 29, 1998
• Sequence Number: 8
• Publication Date: April 24, 1984
• Content Type: TRANS

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TRANSCRIPT HU-1083/8405/01
#66: This will be a CENTER LANE interview for 0900 hours
24 April 1984. Relax and concentrate now, relax and
focus your attention solely and completely on the
building in the photograph I've shown you. Focus
your attention now and describe the upper floor to
#01: ............. Mmmm, got a...it's..a side staircase to
the top floor. It's in a closed hall,..stop at
a..large room, it's...formal meeting room. ...A...
area that the staircase goes to is..got a lower and
upper door in the staircase. Mmm, I just see a
single straight hall with ah...door at the end, four
doors..five doors, three of them on one side and two
on the other. Smaller rooms, seems to be a door in
the middle of this (mumble) hall and it's open,
slight wedged open. ...There's ah.. exposed,
exposed lights in the ceiling in the hall, .... like
parts of the ceiling are open. ........... Trying
to focus on one of the rooms so I can start
describing the rooms.
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#01: Got one room with ah..table top or counter top in
the center of the floor,.. counters wrap around two
walls, portion of the third wall.
Wanting to put canister like objects on the counter
tops. It's made out of metallic canister, round,
flat discs shaped objects. .........Getting a
strong camera input for some reason. Cameras have
to do with one of these rooms.
#66: Okay. Let's move to another room now. Move on
through the rooms. Give me a. brief description
everything that goes on.
#01: ........... Another room has got ah...a lot of white
in it ..... extraordinarily white room ...I see
squares or cards or something mounted on the wall
and there's ah...a lot of shelving mounted on the
wall. There's many things stacked on the shelves
made from paper,.... sealed in plastic. There's a
blue square machine here, it rotates, a rotating
movement from it. .....um...there's a funny kind of
table in here too, I'm not, it's either a table or a
desk but it's shaped very strangely, a lot of angles
to it, a typewriter on it. Two other small boxes,
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box like objects. ....... Now I see a formal office,
not real plush or anything just very formal, desk,
chairs, easy chairs, light green walls, a pale
green, pictures on bookcases. Having trouble
finding a window in this office, ah, suspect it's
an office without windows. ..... Keep getting an
overriding impression of chemicals and cameras for
some reason.
#66: Okay. Now, kind of explain to me, when you first
started talking, you were talking about a formal
meeting room and then you had a hallway and some
rooms off, can you kind of summarize where we are
here?
#01: Yeah. We're in the upper, upper floor corner of the
building.
#66: And where is this formal meeting room?
#01: That's ah..from where we're at, you go down hallway,
hit stair, make a slight right turn, open the door,
down a staircase, open door and a left turn, doorway
formal meeting hall. It's like a very formal room
with big table.
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#66: You said a formal meeting hall.
#01: It's like very large place with a large, long table
#66: Okay. Go in there.
#01: Mmmm....very ornate, not overly so, just ornate.
#66: Is it occupied at the present time?
#01: No, I sensed it was empty when I came in.
#66: Okay. Is there anybody around this particular room,
this formal meeting room?
#01: ................ ......... I hear a lot of like cross
information, I'm getting ah ...... doing like multi
national type people. They come and go, I keep
seeing---
#66: Okay. I'm interested in a time lock, right now.
#01: In a minute.
#66: Go ahead and finish your statement.
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#01: That's what I'm having trouble with, I keep getting
groups coming and going and I'm not--
#66: Yeah, a time problem, okay. Right now, the present
time, am I correct in assuming that there's nothing
going on in this meeting room here?
#01: This exact play in time, nothing.
#66: Okay. Let's move back, scan the previous week too,
an important time when there is something going on
in there. The preceding week from right now.
#01: .................... Have a ah ...... a group
consisting of four parts. ...I have one very...
powerful individual heading the meeting... and then
I have three.... other people that are just
participants. Each has a group of people with
them. Apparently they are more than one nationality.
#66: What's the raw data that makes you say that?
#01: I just get a feel of the nationalistic differences.
It's like ah...a picture of various border lines
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intersecting. ................. I got something
right on the edge of my mind, let me work on it for
a minute.
#66: I'll wait.
#01: ................. .....They're discussing the
implementation of some plan, this informally agreed
to plan. Has to do with, has to do with ah ......
has to do with bringing another country into this
super unit. There seems to be a....ah.. difficulty
of some kind with a transference of money or how it
would be financed. ....... Impression that ah....
one of the key players in this meeting is ah.. not
known to be there and not supposed to be there or
something. ...At whenever I focus on this
individual I keep flashing back to the smaller area
upstairs.
#66: Okay, let's work with describing the smaller area
upstairs..
#01: This, I get a picture now of a like a smaller area
in the area upstairs it's ah...been modified to
Coxv
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support someone living wise, ah..bed and small
refrigerator, kitchenette type area. It's also a
work area, like a planning area.
#66: Okay. what type of planning is done here?
#01: ............ I ah...first..I think this is overlay,
but my first inclination is terrorism, but that's
overlay, it's more precise, it's ah...it has to do
with commitment of funds and movement of money and
more general strategy than specific acts.
#66: Okay.
#01: It's a policy base, that's what it is, place of
basic policy decision.
#66: Okay. It is a place of basic policy decision.
#01: Correct.
#66: All right. If I understand the graphics here, we've
moved from the corner upper floor area and then we
moved towards the center of the building and we come
to a formal, or a large conference type area.
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#01: Correct, very large table and chairs.
#66: Okay. Moving beyond that area to the upper floor
beyond that, describe.
#01: I don't understand.
#66: Okay, it would appear from the photograph I've shown
you that in the center of the building might be
where this large conference table is. And we've
described kind of one wing, the forward side, do you
perceive anything on the other side of the
conference room area?
4/01: Oh, just a minute. ................ Ah...same mix
as I get on the other side, it's like a .... well
equipped work area with an efficiency type
apartments attached. Seems to be like a work, rest
area for some reason. Keep getting it over...
(mumble) picking at the back of my mind, it's like
ah.. there's far more to this building, there's
ah..a need or a reason or existence of photo support
facility, many printing type equipment. Ah... see
specialized arms room, see library or file room with
files,...... very much like a very specialized
operations support place.
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#66: This is the building in general?
#01: Yes. But predominantly functioning as a place of
policy decision making, planning, multi national.
People who aren't suppose to be seen. Predominant
focus, financial, money, transference of funds and
all those things that funds support.
#66: Okay. Ask yourself the question, ask of yourself
the question, what does this money buy?
401: ................. Buys ah..people, political people,
but not in a sense that they are involved, directly
involved takes bit of sense that they're motivations
are political. ........ Mmmm, it's hard to...I'm
trying to decipher this and I'm keep getting a raw
impression of ..... ah..we want this done, here's
some money and they do what we want because we get,
they allow us (mumble) as well and it's all
politically motivated. ....There's a feedback as
well, I'm trying to decipher that.
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#01 ......... Has to do with organization, there's
ah...it ah...in the buying of the people, solidifies
an organization or a cohesed develop a cohesiveness
or it, it it's like the building in the network from
existing pieces. Brings together different diverse,
political enemies, but establishes a power base of
control, in that respect. ...... I just see money
going out and information and people coming in, I
don't, it's very difficult to translate it.
#66: Okay. I can understand that we're not down at the
working level where we have a lot of raw data to
deal with in this particular situation. Try asking
yourself, this network that is formed by the
issuance of money and getting people to come on
board and so forth and so on, what is the overall
goal of this?
#01: .................... Made a lot of levels of goals, a
major goal being, upper level goal being,
destabilization of third world type countries which
would cause a dependency to come about. Lower level
goal being minerals, gas, oil and minerals, minerals
predominantly.
#66: So you say they're focus here seems to be economic?
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#01: Absolutely. Economic interdependencies, (mumble)
destabilization. Doesn't seem to make any sense.
One goal is to destabilize so that they have the
dependency established economically, but I don't see
a intent to carry out supporting that dependency.
So I don't understand that.
#66: Okay. The last couple of minutes, I want you to
scan the area again from the small rooms and the
large conference room or meeting room so that you
may sketch it for me.
#01: ................................ Okay.
#66: Okay.
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#01: Okay. There's a top view of the building. It's
divided into four areas. The view side of the
building which is that depicted in the picture and
in () is essentially constructed of three separate
areas, one is an area of mixed living, technical
support functions type place. It's like permanent
people that are there and they're working with all
these different little technical things that go on,
you know, with the photography and the printing and
all that kind of stuff. And then in the middle is
a large room which is a very ornate conference
meeting area. It's like a very large table with
chairs and whatnot all around it, but it's very
ornate for some reason, and you know, decorative
type room. That's where people meet that have only
to do with function of top two floors. The next
area over is predominantly a living or efficiency
type area with different apartments and whatnot.
And that's for people from out of town, multi
national people are not known to be there, people
that are participating in certain arenas or areas
of conference. The forward side of the building
opposite the view side, that I just described, is a
general area, office support type place and also I
got a gut feeling that there are some more of these
same living type efficiency areas there, but not at
many as on both wings. The top view is an example
of the top two floors. Then there is a side view
that shows the top two floors with the large room,
larger room and I've broken down, under that
there's three additional floors that are general
office areas. And I have feel, just gut feel, that
the top floors are clandestine function and the
bottom three are some form of cover organization or
some form cover function that, you know, is going
on all the time. That's essentially it.
#66: Okay. When I asked you about kind of what goes on
in general here, you said they talked about, they
pay money to other people and places in order to
gain their support in some way?
#01: No, it's almost like they pay other people, they
pay other people that are driven politically,
motivated politically some reason or another. They
don't really care about what their politics are,
what these other people's politics are. Their
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primary goal is to pay these people and use them to
disrupt or, destabilize economics as one given,
politics is another area, just general act of
destabilization, which causes then a dependency of
both the destabilizers as well as the destabilized
upon some other country or some other
organization. The problem that I have with this is
that I don't see any feedback coming to these
people. These people could care less whether
there's a dependency formulated, well, that's not
true, they want to create the dependency, but I
don't see them interacting in that dependency
afterwards. And I don't understand what that means.
#66: Okay.
#01: You know, it's like they're creating a lack of
stability and a dependency, and that's their goal
and that's their desire, but then they don't do
anything with it afterwards. They're doing it just
for the sake of doing it.
#66: Okay.
#01: And I don't understand that. I don't get a thread
there for what goes on afterwards or why they do it.
#66: Okay. Now do you feel that that is what the
meetings are about or has to do with the total
building, can you relate that in any way?
#01: No, that's what the meetings are about. The total
building is, I get a, well quite frankly I didn't
spend a lot of time on the bottom three floors.
#66: Okay. But you said something the, it was a
technical support area?
#01: Oh yeah, and absolutely, these top two floors are
supporting all this in a technical way, you know,
they're supporting it with regard to, I'm not
sure. I just get a lot of little rooms doing a lot
of little functions, you know, like there's really
some superb equipment in here for photography,
photographic chemicals, I get other chemical areas,
I get small printing and copying, or duplicating
area, 1 get, you know, all this just whole room
after room of junk, you know. I see piles of
radios in one room, I see a specialized arms room,
I see, just all this on and on and on.
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#66: You generalized the top two floors as being a
technical support area for some function?
#01: Yes, for some clandestine activity that has to do
with destabilization, political and economics.
#66: Oh, so you're saying then the technical support,
supports whatever is discussed in the big room?
#01: That's correct.
#66: Okay.
#01: And the big room is used for that discussion, is
used for the collection of the information that has
to do with the decisions that are done, I don't
know, just people meeting there, what can I say?
#66: Okay, I have no further questions.
#01: I don't have anymore answers.
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