GARRISON INVESTIGATION

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 30
• Document Creation Date: December 12, 2016
• Document Release Date: August 7, 2002
• Sequence Number: 7
• Publication Date: September 22, 1967
• Content Type: MFR

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 PLAYJB9Y INTERVIEW:
a candid conversation with the embattled district attorney of new orleans
On February 17, 1967, the New
Orleans States-Item broke a story that
would electrify the world-and hurl
district attorney Jim Garrison into a
biller fight for his political life. An enter-
prising reporter, clid I:ing s'ouchers filed
with the city by the district attorney's
office, discovered that Garrison had spent
over ,,S8000 investigating the assassina-
tion. of President Kennedy. "Has the
district attorney discovered valuable
additional evidence," the States-Item
asked editorially, "or is lie merely saving
some interesting nest' information that
will gain for him exposure in a national
magazines" Stung, Garrison counter-
attacked, confirming that an inquiry into
Kennedy's assassination was under way
and charging that the States-Item's "irre-
sponsible" revelation "has now created a
problem for us in finding witnesses and
getting cooperation from other witnesses
and in at least one case has endangered
-Ilse, life of a witness."
On February 18, newsmen from all
over the world converged on New Orleans
to hear Garrison announce at a press
conference: "We have been investigat-
ing the role of the city of New Or-
v'ans in the assassination of President
Kennedy, and we have made some
progress-I think substantial progress....
What's more, there will be arrests." As
reporters flashed news of Garrison's
statement across the world, a 49-year-old
New Orleans pilot, David Ferrie, told
newsmen that the district attorney had
him "pegged as the getaway pilot in an
elaborate plot to kill Kennedy." Ferrie, a
bizarre figure who wore a flaming-red
zuig, false eyebrows and make-tip to con-
ceal burns lie had snijered years before,
denied any involvement in a conspiracy
to kill the President. Garrison, lie said,
was out to frame him. Four days later,
Ferrie was found (lead in his shabby
three-room apartment in New Orleans,
ostensibly of natural causes-though he
left behind two suicide notes.
The press had greeted Garrison's ini-
tial claims about a conspiracy with. a
measure of skepticism, but Ferrie's death
was front-page news around the world.
Garrison broke his .self-imposed silence
to charge that Ferric was "a man who, in
my judgrizent, was one of history's most
important individuals." According to
Garrison, "Mr. Ferrie was one of those
individuals I had in mind zailien I said
there would be arrests shortly. We had
reached a decision to arrest him early
next week. Apparently we waited too
long." But Garrison vowed that Ferrie's
death would not halt his investigation,
and added, "My staff and I solved the
assassination weeks ago. I wouldn't say
this if we didn't have the evidence
beyond a shadow of a doubt. We know
the hey individuals, the cities involved
and how it was done."
On. March 1, Garrison eclipsed even the
headlines from his presriotts press confer-
ence by announcing the arrest of Clay
Shaw, a stealthy New Orleans bu.siness-
iiian and read-estate developer, on
charges of conspiring to assassinate John
F. Kennedy. One of New Orleans' most
prominent citizens, Straw was a founder
and director of the city's prestigious
International Trade Mart from 1917
to 1965, when lie retired to devote his
time to playwriling and restoring his-
toric homes in the old French Quarter.
The day after Shaw's arrest, Garrison
declared that "Shaw was none other
than Clay Bertrand," the shadowy
queen bee of the New Orleans homo-
sexual underworld, who, according to
attorney Dean Andrews' testimony be-
fore the Warren Commission, called
him the day after the assassination and
asked him to rush to Dallas to defend
Oswald. Shaw heatedly denied his guilt:
"I never heard of any plot and I never
used any alias in nay life." But New Or-
leans society, which had long counted
Shaw one of its own, was stunned.
On March 14, a panel of three judges
heard Garrison's case in a preliminary
hearing to determine if there was
enough evidence against Straw to bring
him to trial. Perry Raymond Russo, a 25-
year-old life-insurance salesman from
Baton Rouge who had once been Ferrie's
"room-nsate," testified that in mid-Septem-
ber of 1963, lie had attended a meeting
at Ferrie's apartment where Shaw, Lee
Harvey Oswald and Ferrie discussed
rnean.s of assassinating the President in a
V
"To read the press accounts of my investi- "A number of the men who killed the
gation, I'm a cross between Al Capone President were former employees of the
and Attila the Hun-bribing, threaten- CIA involved in its anti-Castro under-
ing innocent men. Anybody who employs ground activities in the New Orleans area.
those methods should be disbarred." The CIA knows their identity. So do I." -
"President Kennedy was killed for one
reason: because he was working for a rec-
onciliation with the U.S.S.R. and Castro's
Cuba. His assassins were a group of fa-
naticanli-Cornrnunistsand Cuban exiles."
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 d4 ';triangulation of #gprgxpd(ftprRelea"lll0)0NP813&rA,-&rtlA~RDP(le9~f106t 2A0 01OOlflOOO7-Fork as an assistant
second witness, Vernon Bundy, a 29- of the American public now believes district attorney until 1961, when'lie re-
year-old forester narcotics addict, testified there zvas a Conspirwy to assassinate signed with a scorching attack on iblayor
that in the summer of 1963, lie saw Shaw Kennedy, and "a major contributor to Victor H. Schiro, whom he charged with
14 Pass a sun? Of money to Lee Harvey Os- this swelling doubt is the investigation corruplion and failure to rigorously en-
wald on the shore of Lake Pontchar- into tine assvissiriation b', New Orleans force the law.
train. On March 17, after a four-day district attorney Jim. Garrison." Even Garrison entered the race for district
hearing, Judges Malcolm- V. O'Hara., with public opinion on his side, Garrison attorney as a fiercely uncompromising
Bernard J. Bagert and Matthew S. Bra- was running into difJierdties on several reform candidate, lambasting the "po-
nig ruled there was sufficient evidence to fronts by early stunmer. Three witnesses litical machine" of Mayor Schiro and
bold Clay Shaw for trial. Garrison's hand lie wished to question abonl their corn- characterizing the incumbent district
was further strengthened on March 22, plicity in the assassinliori had fled Loui- attorney, Richard Dowling, as "the great
when a 12-member grand jruy, of promi- siana, and lie, seas unahlr to obtain their emancipator-he let everybody go free."
nent New Orleans citizens, em paneled to ext?arlitir ,t 'r.u t)rlratrs-a seldom- Garrison, six feet, six, and 210 pounds,
hear Garrison's case, also ruled there encoru+lr..... .ault,lorl; hr credits to the was quickly dubbed the "Jolly Green
were sufficient grounds to bring Shaw to CIA. "ra'ttle' hhaws that some of its Giant." He had no political organization
court. Pending trial-which is scheduled former employees were involved in the and not much money, but his personal
to begin sometime this month-Straw"' Kennedy as.sassinaliorr and is doing magnetism and refusal to compromise
was allowed to go free on. ?510,000 bail. everything possible to frustrate my in- appealed to Ilie New Orleans elector-
The American press remained dubious vesti,ation in order to preserve the ate. He defeated Dowling handily and
about Garrison's ability to prove his Agency's good name." The CIA refuses promptly began convicting rain on
charges in. court, and domestic coverage to comment o? Garrison's charges. charges his predecessor had dropped.
of and comnienla-y on the district actor- Garrison was also under heavy fire Garrison's five years as district attor-
ney's case thereafter was, at best, low-hey over the improper methods allegedly em- ney have been stormy. He outraged
-at worst, contemptuous. But as News- ployed by his stag. The most blistering many of his former supporters in the
week reported on March. 20, "In Europe, indictment of his probe was an NBC business community by launching a
where thousands still cling to the con- television special on June 19, charging campaign against vice on Bourbon
spiracy theory in spite of the Warren that Garrison's investigators had tried to Street, charging that B-girls were merci-
Commission's conclusion that Lee liar- bribe three potential witnesses-Alvin Icssly fleecing naive tourists. Garrison
vey Oswald acted alone . Garrison Beauboeuf, Miguel Torres and Fred Lee- cleaned up Bourbon Street himself, per-
and his investigation have been the slug mans-to testify against Shaw; that Gar- sonally padlocking many honky-conks
of page-one headlines." "I'm encouraged risorr's stag had altem.pterl to induce a and striptease clubs. But his toughest
by the support Europe is bringing me," burglar, John. Cancler, to plant false evi- fight-until the current one-came in
lie told a Paris-Alatch reporter. "Every deuce in Clay Shaw's home; and that 1962, when he announced that the re-
day, I receive letters and telegrams from Garrison had allowed Perry Russo and fusal of the city's eight criminal-court
all the capitals. I've even had six. tile- Vernon. Bundy to testify against Shaw judges to approve funds for his in-
phone calls from Moscow." One was from even though they had previously failed vestigations of organized crime "raised
Literaturnaya Gazcta, a prestigious Mos- lie-detector tests. NBC addend that its in- interesting questions about racketeer in-
row literary magazine, which ran an in- vesligators had also unearthed the real fluences." The judges promptly charged
terview with Garrison concluding that "Clay Bertrrnrd"; and ihongh NBC didn't Garrison with defamation of character
there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy name him, it said that he was no! Clay. and criminal libel-and a slate court
but that Oswald "definitely wasn't the Shaw. Subsegm?rrlly, l'I;C might have fisted ]rim ?51000. Garrison appealed
key figure in it." had second lhnngltts about its expose, for the case all the way to the Supreme
Garrison also had his supporters in. the the network granted Garrison an ""price- Court, and on November 23, 1964, in a
U. S. Boston's Richard Cardinal Cushing, dented 30 minutes of prime Saturday- landmark decision on the right to crili-
father--confessor to the Kennedy family, evening cunt to rebel its own findings, cize public officials, the nation's highest
Garrison charged that the three wit-
said of the New Orleans probe on March tribunal reversed his conviction, contend-
10: auto r /aimed his aids had tried to irib , that "speech concerning public affairs
"7 think they shvtild follow it through. bribe therm here perjurers. Ile also de-
I never believed that the (tiled the Anti-
Cotiuuutiis:n i.l:i.,u, the Caribbean.
which was jilt ;c;i v tied by the CIA in
the overthroir of tie (1: tteui:d;ui gov-
crnnicnt in 195.1. 50, iii oilier words.
these are the Last govs in tile world you'd
expect to find tied up With left-wing or
pro-Castro ac fig itic,, iaglu? And yet,
when Lee Il;c icy Oswald set up his
fictitious branch of ilic Fair Play for
Cuba C:oniniittce in New Orleans, he
distributed leaflets gi\ing the commit-
tee's address as 544 Camp Street-Guy
Bannister's office! Somebody must have
pointed out to Oswald shortly afterward
that lie was endangering his. cover by
using this address, because he subse-
quently changed it to 45107 Magazine
Street. But it's certainly significant that
at the inception of his public role as a
pro-Castro activist, Oswald was utilizing
the mailbox of the most.inilitantly con-
servative and anti-Comnuinist outfit in
the city. I might add that we have several
witnesses who will testify in court that
they saw Oswald hanging out at 544
Camp Street. I want to stress, however,
that 11i:ne uo evidence that Bannister
and Wait! Well involved in the plot to
kill Kennedy. "]'heir office was a kind of
way station for anti-Castro and right-
wing extren,i:,t8 passing through New
Orleans. ruin it's pcricctly possible than
they were completely unaware of the con-
spiracy being hatched by tutu like Ferric
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lining, raglan sleeves with adjustable cuffs, zip:
pockets hidden under the front yoke, bold stit,
moves well, "The Mustang."
Harbor Master Ltd. A Division of Jonathon
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'" Dupont reg. T. M. for its Polyester Fiber i Dupont r,v
 ;0+- ill the alleged cotAy trb%iMl(F:d l ayt~leur _ ~_ A l v r some of Oswald's anti-Castro
Bannister? crash, t mu,g i rumors a ways spit tl ~ t~ Wi and New Orleans
GARRISON: Yes, David Ferric was a paid in a case like this. The only thing I will showed up in Dallas in October of 1963.
investigator for Bannister, and the two say is that wiatcsses ill this case do have In a "Supplementary Investigation Rc-
p+ men knew each other very well. Dur- a habit of dying at the most inconvenient port" filed on November 23, 1963, by
19 ing 1962 and 1963, Ferric spent a good times. I understand a Loudon insurance Dallas policeman Buddy \?Valthers, all
deal of time at 544 Camp Street and firm has prepared an actuarial chart aide to Sheriff Bill Decker, Walthers
he made a series of mysterious long- on the likelihood of 20 of the people stated: "I talked to Sorrels, the head of
'a
W distance phone calls to Central America involved in this case (lying within three the Dallas Secret Service. I was advised
from Bannister's office. We have a record years of the assassination-and found that for the past few months at a house
of those calls. the odds 30 trillion to one. But I'm at 3128 Harlandale, some Cubans had
PLAYBOY: Where are Bannister and Ward sure NBC will shortly discover that one been having meetings on the weekends
now? of my investigators bribed the computer. and were possibly connected with the
GARRISON: Both have died since the as- PLAYBOY: Was Oswald involved with Freedom for Cuba Party of which Oswald
sassination-Bannister of a heart attack paramilitary activists and anti-Castro was a member." No attention was paid to
in 1964 and Ward when the plane lie was Cuban exiles in Dallas, as well as in New Walthers' report, and on November 26th,
piloting for New Orleans Mayor De Les- Orleans? lie complained: "I don't know what ac-
seps Morrison crashed in Mexico in GARRISON: Olt, God, yes. In fact, many tion the Secret Service has taken, but I
1964. De Lesseps Morrison, as it hap- of his New Orleans contacts overlap with learned today that some time between
pened, had introduced Clay Shaw to those in Dallas. Jack Ruby, who played seven clays before the President was shot
President Kennedy on all airplane flight a key role in smuggling gusts to the anti- and the day after he was shot, these Cu-
in 1963. Castro underground-on behalf of the bans moved from this house. My inform-
." Oswald had
been to stated this that
use before subject
PLAYBOY: Do you believe there was any- CIA-was one of Oswald's contacts in ant
was the
thing sinister about the crash that killed Dallas. Furthermore, Oswald was virtual- last that was ever eard "f the mast the
both Morrison and Ward? ly surrounded by White Russians in Dal- Oils Cubans at e h Harlandale. A eri-
GARR150N: I have no reason to believe las, some of whom were CIA employees. nificant point in Walthers' report is his
COC// N
mention of the Freedom for Cuba Par-
ty: This appears to be a corruption of
the anti-Castro Free Cuba Committee of
which Oswald, Ferric and a small cadre
of neo-Nazis--including the man we
believe was the "second Oswald"-were
members. You may remember that on
the night of the assassination, Dallas
D. A. Henry Wade called a press confer-
ence and at one point referred to Oswald
as a member of the "Free Cuba Commit-
tee" instead of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee. Jack Ruby, who just hap-
pened to be there, promptly chimed in to
correct him. Ruby was obviously in the
jail that night on a dry run prior to his
successful murder of Oswald on Sunday
-a possibility the Warren Commission
never bothered to consider-and could
hardly have been eager to draw atten-
tion to himself. However, lie must have
been afraid that if the press reported Os-
wald was a member of the "Free Cuba
Committee," somebody might begin an
investigation of that group and discover
its anti-Castro and ultra-right-wing ori-
entation. And so lie risked his cover to
set the record straight and protect his
fellow conspirators.
PLAYBOY: In regard to Oswald's role iii
the conspiracy, you have said that "Ile
was a decoy at first and then lie was a
patsy and then lie was a victim." Would
you explain what you meant by that?
GARRISON: Oswald's role in the pro-
posed assassination of Kennedy, as far as
lie seems to have known, was strictly
political: not to fire a gun but-for rea-
sons that may not have been explained
to him by his superiors at their planning
sessions-to establish his left-wing bona
fides so unshakably that after the assassi-
nation, quite possibly unbekuowust to
162 "Well, all the sign said was, `Joe's Topless Restaurant."' hint, the President's murder would appear-
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 Approved,For Release 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
wing fanatic and thus allow the other
plotters, including the n.en wi o ac'atally
shot Kennedy, to escape police attention
and flee Dallas. Though he may not have
known why he was instructed to do so,
this was undoubtedly why lie got the
job at the Texas School Book Depository
Building; we've learned that one of the
members of the conspiracy was in a posi-
tion to learn from perfectly innocent Dal-
las business contacts the route of the
Presidential motorcade more than a
mouth before Kennedy's visit. The con-
spirators-more than probably not in-
cluding Oswald-knew this would place
him on the scene and convince the world
that a demented Marxist was the real
assassin.
PLAYBOY: Even if Oswald was unaware of
his role as a decoy, didn't he suspect that
lie might be double-crossed by his co-
conspirators?
GARRISON: We have uncovered substantial
evidence that he was influenced and nia-
nipulated rather easily by his older and
more sophisticated superiors in the con-
spiracy, and it's probable that he trusted
them more than he distrusted them. But
even if the opposite were true, I think
he would have clone what he was told.
PLAYBOY: Even if he suspected that he
might be arrested and convicted as the
President's assassin?
GARRISON: As I said, I don't think it's
decoy. But even if he was, it's probable
that he would have been given some
cock-and-bull assurances about being
richly rewarded and smuggled out of (lie
country after Kennedy's death. But it's
even more probable, in my opinion-if
lie did know the true nature of his role
-that he wouldn't have felt the necessity
to escape. He would have known that no
jury in the world-even in Dallas-
would have been able to find him guilty
of the assassination on the strength of
such tan.,parently contrived circumstan-
tial evidence.
PLAYBOY: That's debatable. But even if
Oswald had been brought to trial for and
acquitted of the assassination, what rea-
son would lie have had to believe that
he would also be exonerated of involve-
ment in the conspiracy-which you've
admitted yourself?
GARRISON: I don't want to evade your
question, but I can't answer it without
compromising my investigation of a cru-
cial new area of the conspiracy. I'm
afraid I can't discuss it until we've built
a solid care. I can say, however, that what-
ever his knowledge of his role as a decoy,
he definitely didn't know about his role
as a patsy until after the assassination.
At 12:45 P.M. on November 22nd, the
Dallas police had broadcast a wanted
bulletin for Oswald-over a half hour
before Tippit was shot and at a time
IMPORTE RAC.. ` SCOTCH
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D07% BLENDED SCOTCH WHI*pprove cFoip sec2OQ2iGW28R:a,C1A-RDP79-00632A000100`'1~
linking 0 wald to the assassination. The
Dallas police have never been able to
explain who transmitted this wanted
notice or on what evidence it was based;
and the Warren Commission brushed
aside the whole matter as unimportant. I
think it's obvious that the conspirators
tipped off the police, probably anony-
mously, in the hope-subsequently real-
ized-that all attention would henceforth
be focussed on Oswald and the Beat
would be taken off other members of
the plot. Wide have evidence that the plan
was to have him shot as a cop killer it)
the Texas Theater "while resisting ar-
rest." I can't go into all the details on
this, but the murder of Tippit, which f
ant convinced Oswald didn't commit, was
clearly designed to set the stage for Os-
wald's liquidation in the Texas Theater
after another anonymous tip-off. But here
the plotters miscalculated, and Oswald
was not shot to death but was merely
roughed tip and rushed off to the Dallas
jail-where, you may remember, lie
shouted to reporters as the police dragged
him through the corridors on November
22nd: "I didn't kill anyone-I'm being
made a patsy." The conspiracy had gone
seriously awry and the plotters were in
clanger of exposure by Oswald. Enter
Jack Ruby-and exit Oswald. So first
Oswald was a decoy, next a patsy and
finally-in the basement of the Dallas jail
 Oil Novtmbcr 24, 1963 A~Nro net For Relg jen,Pg2t0itj?8 n uc~t~t. 7rm0 0 t~a~q0tQj bQ0 ~~~oti4~iry. ho chid:
PLAYBOY: Even if Oswald was a scapegoat smoking a pipe, which I interchange be- GARRISON: Our office has developed evi-
in the alleged conspiracy, why cto you t ccn my hands, so I'll have traces of dente that the President was assassinated
believe he couldn't also have been one nitrate on both hands but not on my by a precision guerrilla team of at least
of those who shot at the President? cheeks. The morning of the assassins- seven men, including anti-Castro adven-
GARRtSON: If there's one thing the War- Lion. Oswald was moving crates in a tuners and members of the paramilitary
ren Commission and its 26 volumes of newly painted room, which was likely to right. Of course, the Ministry of Truth
supportive evidence demonstrate conclu- have t traces of nitrate on both his concluded-by scrupulously ignoring the
sively, it's that Lee Harvey Oswald did hands. Now, of course, if the nitrate test most compelling evidence and carefully
not shoot John Kennedy on November had proved positive, and Oswald did selecting only those facts that conformed
22, 1963. Of course, the Commission have nitrate on one hand and oil his to its preconceived thesis of a lone assassin
concluded not only that Oswald fired at cheek, that would still not constitute -that "no credible evidence suggests
the President but that he was a marks- proof positive that he'd fired a gun, that the shots were fired from . . . any
man, that the had enough time to "fire because the nitrates could have been left place other than the Texas School Book
three shots, with two hits, within 4.8 by a substance other than gunpowder. Depository Building." But anyone who
and 5.6 seconds," that his Manulicher- But the fact that he had no nitrate what- takes the time to read the Warren Report
Carcano was a in accurate rifle, etc.-but soever on his check is ineluctable proof will find that of the witnesses is Dealey
all these conclusions are actually in direct that he never fired a rifle that clay. If he Plaza who were able to assess the origin
contradiction of the evidence within the had washed his face to remove the nitrate of the shots, almost two thirds said they
Commission's own 26 volumes. By culling before the test was administered, there came from the grassy-knoll area in front
and coordinating that evidence, the lead- would have been none on his hands and to the right of the Presidential lim-
ing critics of the Commission have either-unless the was in the habit of ousine and not from the Book Depository,
proved that Oswald was a mediocre washing with gloves on. This was a sticky which was to the rear of the President. A
shot; that the Manulicher-Carcano rifle problem for the Warren Commission, but number of reliable witnesses testified
he allegedly used was about the cram- they resolved it with their customary that they heard shots ring out from be-
miest weapon on the market today; aplomb. An expert was dug up who hind the picket fence and saw a puff of
that its telescopic sight was loose and testified that ill a Manulicher-Carcano smoke drift into the air. Additional evi-
had to be realigned before Commission rifle, the chamber is so tight that no deuce supporting this can be found in the
experts could fire it; that the 20-year-old nitrates are emitted upon firing; and Zapruder film published in Life, which
ammunition he would have had to use the Commission used this testimony to reveals that the President was slammmed
could not have been relied on to fire dismiss the whole subject. However, the backward by the impact of a bullet; in-
accurately, if at all; that fire rifle quite inventor of the nitrate test subsequently less you abrogate Newton's third law of
possibly was taken from Oswald's home tested the Manulicher-Carcano and found motion, this means the President was shot
after the assassination and planted in that it did leave citrate traces. He was from the front. Also-though they were
the Depository; that the Commission's not called to testify by the Warren Corn- contradicted later-several of the doctors
own chronology of Oswald's movements mission. So the nitrate test alone is iucon- at Parkland hospital who examined the
made it highly implausible for him to trovertible proof that Oswald did not fire President's neck wound contended it was
fire three shots, wipe the rifle clear of a rifle on November 22nd. We've also an entrance wound, which would cer-
fingcrpritnts-there were none found on found some new evidence that shows that tainly tend to indicate that Kennedy was
it-hide the rifle under a stack of books Oswald's Manulicher-Carcano was not the shot from the front. In the course of our
and rush down four flights of stairs to only weapon discovered in the Depository investigation, we've uncovered additional
the second floor, all in the few seconds Building after the assassination. I recent- evidence establishing absolutely that there
it took Roy Truly and Officer Marrion ly traveled to New York for a conference were at least four men on the grassy
Baker to rush in from the street after with Richard Sprague, a brilliant man knoll, at least two behind the picket
the shots and encounter Oswald stanch- ,who's been independently researching fence and two or more behind a small
ing beside the vending machine in the technical aspects of the assassination, stoue wall to the right of the fence. As I
employees' cafeteria. I could cite ad- and lie showed me a hitherto unpub- reconstruct it from the still-incomplete
ditioual evidence proving that Oswald licized collection of film clips from a evidence in our possession, one man fired
didn't fire a rifle from the sixth floor motion picture taken of the assassination at the President from each location, while
of the Depository, but it would just be a and its aftermath. Part of the film, shot the role of his companion was to snatch
recapitulation of the excellent books of shortly after one r. at., shows the Dallas up the cartridges as they were ejected.
the critics, to which I refer your readers. police carrying the assassination weapon Parenthetically, a book on firearms
There are a number of factors that we've out of the Book Depository. They stop characteristics was found in Ferrie's apart-
examined independently during the for the photographers and an officer holds meat. It was filled with underlinicg and
course of our investigation that also the rifle ill) above his head so that the marginal notations, and the most heavily
prove Oswald didn't shoot at the Presi- inquisitive crowd can look at it. There's annotated section was one describing the
dent. For one thing, the nitrate test ad- just one little flaw here: This rifle does direction and distance a cartridge travels
ministered to Oswald oil the clay of the not have a telescopic sight, and thus call- from a rifle after ejection. Scribbled on a
assassination clearly exonerated him of not be Oswald's rifle. This weapon was bookmark in this section, in Ferrie's
having fired a rifle within the past 24 taken from the building approximately handwriting, were the figures, not men-
hours. He had nitrates on both hands, 20 minutes before Oswald's Manulicher- tioncd in the text, "50? and 11 feet"-
but no nitrates on his cheek-which Carcano was "discovered"-or planted- which indicates the possibility that Fer-
means it was impossible for him to have on the premises. To sum tip: Oswald was fie had test-fired a rifle and plotted tie
fired a rifle. The fact that the had nitrates involved in the conspiracy; shots were distance from the gunman to where the
on both hands is regarded in the nitrate fired at Kennedy from the Depository ejected cartridges would fall. But to re-
test as a sign of innocence; it's the same but also from the grassy knoll and appar- turn to the scene of the crime, it seems
as having nitrates on neither hand. This ently from the Dal-Tex Building as well virtually certain that the cartridges, along
is because so many ordinary objects leave -but not one of them was fired by Lee with the rifles, were then thrown into the
traces of nitrate on the hands. You're Harvey Oswald, and not one of them trunk of a car-parked directly behind
smoking a cigar, for example-tobacco from his Manulicher-Carcano. the picket fennce-which was driven from
contains nitrate; so if you were tested PLAYBOY: If Oswald didn't shoot Presi- the scene some hours after the assassitta-
right now, you'd haveq > (~Lga $u R@Ieasee~}d~z/a }8tlie n t] i~06 nA~~~l ~j~ ~c thorough search
 Approved For Release 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A00010p1 0007-
of all vehicles in the vicinity of the grassy who was not involved in the shootnng )tit 11011 0 he resit nt's skull and killed
knoll immediately after the assassination, created a diversionary action in order to him. Like most of the other conclusions
this incriminating evidence might have distract people's attention from the snip- of the Commission, this one contradicts
been uncovered-along with the real ens. This individual screamed, fell to the both the esideinc and the testimony of
4 authors of the President's murder. In ad- ground and sinuilated an epileptic fit, crycwitnesses. The initial shot hit the
19 dition to the assassins on the grassy knoll, drawing people away front the vicinity of President in the front of the neck, as
at least two other met fired from behind the knoll just before the President's tno- the Parkland 11ospital doctors recogni'ed
'~ the President, one from the Book Deposi- torcade reached the ambush point. So -though they were later contradicted by
AN Cory Building-not Oswald-and one, in you have at least seven people involved, the military physicians at the Bethesda
all probability, from the l)al'l'ox Build- with four firing at the I'resielent and autopsy, and by the 1Vanen Report.
ing. As it happens, a man was arrested catching loin in a crossfire-lust as the The second shot struck the President it
right after the assassination as lie left assassins had planned at Ilan otceting 111 the back; the locatiot of this wound can
the Dal-Tex Building and was taken llavid Ferries aparuncnt nn September he serilied not by consulting the official
away in a patrol car, but like the three It Was a precision operation and was car- autopsy report-0t which the Comtnis-
other men detained after the assassina- ricd out coolly :nil with excellent eoordi- Sion based its conclusion that this bullet
Lion-one in the railroad yard behind n hit Kennedy in the back of the neck and
Y' ation: the assassins even kept in contact exited from his throat-hut by perusitg
the grassy knoll, one on the railroad by radio. The President. of course, had
overpass farther clown the parade route, no chance. It was an overkill operation. file reports filed by two 1`11,1 agents who
and one in front of the Book Depository As far as the actual sequence of slots goes, were present at the 1resident's atnopsy
Building-lie then dropped out of sight you'll remember that the Warren Conn- in Bethesda, Alarylaud, Both stated in-
completely. All of these suspects taken mission concluded that only three bullets equivocally drat the bullet in giesuon
into custody after the assassination re- were fired at the President-one that hit entered President Kcuncdy's bah allot did
not continue through his body. I also rc-
nrain as anonymous as if they'd been dc- just below the back of his neck, exited Ier YOU to photographs toe .'iko re
taincd for throwing a candy wrapper on through his throat and then passed shirt u tot by the FBI, allot to a drawing
the sidewalk. We have also located an through Governor Conually's body; one of the President's back wound made by
Other than-in green combat fatigues that missed; and one that blew off a por-
one of the ex;uniting physicians at Be-
thesda; the location of the wound in
both cases corresponds exactly-more
than three incites below the President's
neck. Yet the Conuuission concluded that
1 ' 1 -red in his neck This
rn
- .
t 1(S NOUnt Uc e
of course, was to make it more believable
that the same bullet had exited 1ro111
the President's throat and slatted on
down through Governor Connally. Even
if this bullet 11(1(1 entered where the Com-
mission claims and then exited from the
President's throat, it would have been
possible for it to enter Governor C:onnal-
ly's upper had, at a downward an-le,
exit from his lower chest and lodge fi-
nally in his thigh-fired, as the Commis-
sion says it was, from the elevation of
,I I,-ttnn, window of the Book De-
pository-only if Connally had been
sitting in the President's lap or if the
btillet had described two 90-degree turns
on its way (runt President Kennedy's
throat to Goccrnor Connally's back.
Clea ly, the President's throat wound was
caused by the litst shot, this (tile from
the grassy knoll in trout of the limou-
sine; :and his back wound came Front the
rear. I've already given you lily reasons
for reaching this conclusion.
PLAYBOY: If the first bullet was fired from
the front, why wasn't it. found in the
President's body. or somewhere it the
Presidential Iintonsine?
GARRISON: "f-he exact ualure of [lie Presi-
dent's wounds, as well as the disposition
of the bullets or bullet Ilagntcnis. :nc
anion- the many concealed items ill this
case. I told you earlier about the met on
the grassy knoll whose sole Inuctiot we
believe was to catch the cartridges as
they were ejected from the assassin,' rifles.
We also have reason to suspect that other
members of the conspiracy may have been
assigned the jot) of removing other cvi-
'' deuce-such as traceable bullet ft i tncnts
166 Approved Fir F ases26b~1 /i8 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
 Approved For Release 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
-that might betray the assassins. In the
chaos of November 22nd. Lbis Would not
have been as difficult as it sounds. We
know that a bullet. designated Exhibit
number 399 by the Warren Commission,
was planted on a stretcher in Parkland
Iospital to incriminate Oswald. The
Commission concluded that this bullet
allegedly hit both Kennedy and Governor
Connally, causing seven wounds and
breaking three bones-and emerged with-
out a (lent! In subsequent ballistics tests
with the same gun, every bullet was
squalled completely out of shape from
impact with various simulated human
targets. So, if the conspirators could fabri-
cate a bullet, they could easily conceal
one. lint to return to the sequence of
shots: Governor Connally was struck by a
third bullet-as lie himself insisted, not
the one that struck Kennedy in the back
-also fired from the rear. A fourth sllot
missed the Presidential limousine com-
pletely and struck the curb along the
south side of Main Street, disintegrating
into fragments; the trajectory of this
bullet has been plotted backward to a
The fifth shot, which struck the President
in the right temple, tore off the Lop of his
skull anti snapped him back into his seat
-a point overlooked by the Warren Com-
mission-had to have been fired from the
grassy knoll. "I'here is also medical evi-
deuce indicating the likelihood that an
additional head shot may have been fired.
]'lie report of 1)r. Robert McClelland at
Parkland Hospital, for example, states
that "the Cause of death was due to mas-
sive head and brain injury from a gun-
shot wound of the left temple." And
yet another shot may also have been
fired; frames 208 to 211 of the Zaprudcr
film, which were deleted from the War-
ren Report-presumably as irrelevant-
reveal signs of stress appearing suddenly
on the back of a street sigma momentarily
obstructing the view between the grassy
knoll and the President's car. These stress
signs may very well have been caused by
the impact of a stray bullet on the sign.
We'll never be sure about this, however,
because the (lay after the assassination,
the sign was removed and no one in Dal-
las seems to know what became of it.
Some of the gunmen appear to have
used frangible bullets, a variant of the
dumdum bullet that is forbidden by
the Geneva Treaty. Frangible bullets ex-
plode on impact into tiny fragments, as
did the bullet that caused the fatal
wound ill the President's heath. Of
course, frangible bullets are ideal in a
political assassination, because they almost
guarantee massive damage and assure
that no tangible evidence will remain
that ballistics experts could use to trace
the murder weapon. I might also men-
tion that frangible bullets cannot
he fired from a Mannlicher-Carcano,
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such as the cA'PJYtb1@d Pdf 1444thse 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2 167
 Ap P v F r{~~ as / 8 C1~,Z 2l Pe iL 2 along with the ma or-
OOA~OO?0~7
p+ Osw:ddl used to pdP tpTnc ~icsitlr~gi.:~~Qa~ Zc ]zit 7~t(JIo61~2AO06DI 1
C Also parenthetically, this type of bullet from their owit reactions-but it requires ity of the witnesses to the assassiu:uion,
was issued by the CIA for use in anti- 2.3 seconds just to work the bolt on a he said the shots came from the grassy
60 Castro-exile raids on Cuba. Ito summa- Ai:unilicher-Carcano title. To escape this knoll, Ott Which Ile was standing (rout
Lion, there were at least five or six shots dilemma, the Commission produced the behind the stone wall, which was 0111)' a
fired at the President from front and magical bullet, Exhibit 300, which I few dozen feet from him, in the opposite
rear by at least four gunmen, assisted by referred to earlier. Apart Iron the prix- direction troll) the Depository. Like the
several accomplices, two of whom prob- tine condition of 3941, the whole time \Varreu Commission, CBS was scrupu
ably picked tip the cartridges and one of sequence was the weakest link in the lously selective in its choice of evidence.
whom created a diversion to draw people's Commission's shaky chain of evidence, Its broadcast wasn't a hatchet job like
eyes away from the grassy knoll. At this and CBS seems to have taken it upon its the NBC show', bu: it was equally utis-
stage of events, Lee Harvey Oswald was shoulders to resolve the problem by in- leading and, however uuiutentionally,
no more than a spectator to the assassins- venting a new time setlueuce. What they dishonest. I'm not imputing sinister mo-
tion-perhaps in a very literal sense. As did was to have a photo analyst, Charles tires to CBS; it appears that its greatest
the first shot rang out, Associated Press \Vyckolf, examine the Zapruder film and handicap was its own ignorance of the
photographer James Ahgens snapped a find that certain frames were blurred. assassination.
picture of the motorcade that shows a Wyckoff arbitrarily decided that these PLAYBOY: To return to your own inves-
man with a remarkable resemblance to blurs were caused by Zapruder's physical tigation of the assassination: Have you
Lee IIarvcy Oswald-same hairline, same reaction to the sound of shots ringing Out discovered the identity of any of the
lace shape-standing in the doorway of -although by the same logic, "Zapruder couspiiators you say were invohed in the
the Book Depository Building. Somehow could just have Sheeted. Now, the actual shooting?
or other, the Warren Commission con- Warren Co.uutissiou had concluded that GARRISON: I dlou't want to sound coy or
eluded that this mail Was actually Billy Kennedy would not ha-e been visible to evasive, but I'm afraid I eau't comment
Nolan Lovelady, an employee of the De- Oswald until Frame 21U of the /,apruder on that. All I can say is that this is all
pository, who looked very little like film; until thou, lie was obscured by an ongoing case and there will be more
Oswald. Furthermore, on the clay of the oak tree---and ',ras lust flit. in frame 222 arrests.
assassination, Oswald was wearing a white or 223. But. Wyckoff detected a blur in PLAYBOY: Let's move oat to the events
T-shirt under a long-sleeved dark shirt the vicinity of France 186; and on the that followed the assassimuuon. AVhat
opened halfway to his waist-the same basis of this, CBS speculated that Zapru- reason (to you have for believing that
outfit worn by the man in the doorway- der heard :.a shot at frame 186-the first Oswald didn't shoot Officer .1ippit?
but Lovelady said that Ott November shot iii CBS' revised time schedule- GARRISON: As I said earlier, the evidence
22nd lie was wearing a short-sleeved, red- which Oswald allegedly fired at Kenne- we've uncovered leads us to suspect that
and-white-striped sport shirt buttoned dy through the Lt'niclies of the oak tree. two men, neither of whom Was Oswald,
near the neck. The Altgens photograph CBS even Speculated that the bullet were the real murderers of Tippit; Ave
indicates the very real possibility that at lodged in the trunk Of the oak tree, and believe we have one of them identified.
the moment Oswald was supposed to sent a team of then with metal detectors The critics of the Warren Report have
have been crouching in the sixth-floor scurrying up it, but to uo avail; the pointed out that a number of the
window of the Depository shooting Ken- commentator explained that maybe witnesses could trot identify Oswald as
nedy, he may actually have been standing someday more sophisticated detection the slayer, that several said the murderer
outside the front door watching the devices would be developed anti the but- was short and stluat-Oswald was thin
Presidential motorcade. let would be found. Sure. "1'his scenario, and medium height-and another said
d. The \1'ar
PLAYBOY: Between June 25th and 20th, of course, gave Oswald sa'vcral extra sec- that two men were involve
CBS telecast a series of four special Duds iii iv ':1 ii :o take careful aim and reti Commission's own chronology of
shows revealing the findings of the net- fire fir- ,:.;'i n~ o shuts-cud thus let Oswald's movements also Jails to allow
work's own seven-month investigation the CO~,:i.?,i;,n nld time hook. The only hits suflicieut time to reach the scene
of the assassination. CBS agreed with troul.rlc I:,- mimat the people who con- of ?1-ippit's murder front the Book De-
the Warren Commission's conclusion that ducted tlu? CBS randy--like most defend- pository Building. The clincher, as far
Oswald was the assassin, that lie acted ers of the l1'arri i Report-didn't do all as I'm concerned, is that our car-
alone and that only three shots were of their lioutewoik. They forgot, or ridges were cred at the scene of the
fired; but it theorized that the first shot chose to ignore, that by the Commis Haying. Now, revolvers do not ejeeject, car-
was fired earlier than the Warren Com- siOn's 01%711 admission, the bullet that
tidgcs, so when someone is shot, you
mission believed, thus giving Oswald suf_ missed Kennedy---the second bullet tit don't later find gratuitous hot, ges
ficient time to fire three well-aimed shots the Gornmissiou's sequence-hit the
at the President with his Mannlicher_ curb on Main Street near the railroad strewn over the sidewalk-uulcss the
Carcano-and overcoming the implausi- underpass 100 yards ahead of the lim- murderer deliberately takes the trouble
bility of the Commission's conclusion ousirte, shattering into fragments and to eject them. We suspect that cartridges
that he had scored two hits out of three causing superficial. wounds on the face of had been previously obtained front Os-
shots in only 5.6 seconds. Don't you con- a bystander, James Tague. But the tra- wald's .38 revolver and left at the mur-
sider this a logical explanation of the jectory of :ally ballet fired from the sixth der site by the read killers as part of the
discrepancies in the Commission's time floor of the Depository through the setup to incriminate Oswald. However,
sequence? branches of the oak tree is such that it somebody slipped up there. Of the four
GARRISON: I'm afraid it's neither logical could not conceivably hit within a city cartridges found at the scene, two were
nor an explanation. In case your readers block of the underpass. So please excuse \Vinchesters and two were Remiugtons
aren't familiar with all the ramifications me if I'm not overwhelmed by the in- -but of the four bullets found ill Officer
of this question, the Commission's entire electable logic of CBS' presentation. And Tippit's body, three were Winchesters
lone-assassin theory rests on the fact that just let inc add a footnote here: CBS and one was a Remington! The last
all three shots were fired, as you point made a great deal out of its assumption time I looked, the Reiuington-Peters
out, within a period of 5.6 seconds. Now, that the blurs out Zapruder's film indi- \lanufact.uring Company was not in the
the film taken of the assassination by dated a reflexive reaction to shots ring- habit of slipping Winchester bullets
Abraham Zapruder proves that a maxi- ing out. But they never asked Zapruder into its cartridges, nor was the Win-
mum of 1.8 seconds elapsed between the about his statement to Secret Service chester-Western Manufacturing Corti-
168 time 1Ccnnedpt rf~r ~tF 2M/06126 H6oo~ooy1bsooot~-2 cmingtou bullets into its
 Approved For Release 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
"Here corms our analyst. A few more visits and
we should have hit-n straightened att."
cartridges. I don't believe that Oswald
shot anybody on November 22nd-not
the President and not '1'ippit. If our in-
vestigation in this area proves fruitful, I
hope we will be able to produce in a
court of law the two men who did kill
Tippit.
PLAYBOY: How do you explain the fact that
the Warren Commission concluded that
the bullets in Officer 'ltppit's body had
all been fired from the revolver in the
possession of Oswald at the time of his
arrest, to the exclusion of all other
weapons"?
GARRISON: The Warren Commission's con-
clusion was made in spite of the evidence
and not because of it. To determine
if Oswald's gun had fired the bullets,
it was necessary to call in a ballistics
expert who would be able to tell if the
lines and grooves on the bullets had a
relation to the barrel of the revolver. The
Commission called as its witness FBI
ballistics expert Cortlandt Cunningham,
and he testified, after an examination of
the bullets taken from Tippit's body, that
it was impossible to determine whether
or not these bullets had been fired from
Oswald's gun. Yet, on the basis of this
expert testimony, the Warren Commis-
Approved For
sion concluded with a straight face that
the bullets were fired not only from Os-
wald's gun but "co the exclusion of all
other weapons." They simply chose to
ignore the fact that revolvers don't eject
cartridges and that the cartridges left so
conveniently on the street didn't match
the bullets in Tippit's body.
PLAYBOY: You mentioned earlier that a
so-called "second Oswald" had imper-
sonated the real Lee Harvey Oswald be-
fore the assassination in an attempt to
incriminate him. What proof do you
have of this?
GARRISON: I hesitate to use the words
"second because they tend to
lend eat ;idditional fictional quality to
a case the ^lreatly makes Dr. No and
Goldfus.,, look like auditors' reports.
Ilowcvcr, ii is true that before the assas-
sinatinu, a utlculatcd effort was made to
implic;+~cc Oswald in the events to come.
A young than approximating Oswald's
description and using Oswald's name-
we believe we have discovered his iden-
tity-engaged iu a variety of activities
designed to create such a strong impres-
sion of Oswald's instability and culpa-
bility in people's minds that they would
recall him as a suspicious character after
the President was murdered. In one
instance, a man went to an auto sales-
room, gave his name as Lee Oswald,
test-drove a car at 80 miles an hour-
Oswald couldn't drive-and, after creat-
ing an ineradicable impression on the
salesman by his speeding, gratuitously
remarked that lie might. go back to the
Soviet Union and was expecting to conic
into a large sum of money. Parentheti-
cally, the salesman who described this
"second Oswald" was stibsequeutly beaten
almost to death by unknown assailants
outside his showroom. He later fled Dal-
las and last year was found dead; if. was
officially declared a suicide. In another
instance, this "second Oswald" visited
a shooting range in Dallas and gave
a virtuoso demonstration of mark,,man-
ship, hitting not only his own bull's-eye
but the bull's-eyes of neighboring t;ugets
as well-thus leaving an unforgettable
impression of his skill with a rifle. The
real Oswald, of course, was a mediocre
shot, and there is ito evidence that he
hail fired it rifle since the day lie left the
Marines. Consequently, the fact that lie
couldn't hit the side of a barn had to be
offset, which accounts for the tableau at
the rifle range. I could go oil and on re-
counting similar instances, but there is
no doubt that there was indeed a "sec-
ond Oswald." Now, the 4Naireu Coln-
mission recognized that the iudicidual
involved ill all these activities could not
be Lee Oswald; but they never took the
next step and inquired why these inci-
dents of impersonation occurred so sys-
tcmatically prior to the assassination. As
it turned out, of course, the organizers of
the conspiracy needn't have bothered to
go to all this trouble of laying a false
trail incriminating Oswald. They should
leave realized, since Oswald was a "self-
proclairned. Marxist," that it wasn't uce-
essary to produce any additional evidence
to convict him in the eyes of the mass
media; any other facts would simply be
redundant in the face of such a convinc-
ing confession of guilt.
PLAYBOY: You've given your reasons
for believing that Oswald, despite his
leftist "cover," was involved with the
conspirators and with the CIA. Do you
have any evidence indicating that lie
was also connected with the FBI, as
some critics of the Warren Report have
alleged?
GARRISON: Let me preface my answer by
saying that I believe the FBI was not
given the full picture of Oswald's CIA
involvement. I have nothing but respect
for the,Btareatt and feel that if it weren't
for the I-Bf reports still available in the
Commission exhibits, the door would
have been closed forever. While the CIA
has behaved like a cross between the
Gestapo and the NKVD, the FBI has
worked assiduously in many different
areas and gathered facts that have proved
of great value to those interested in
uncovering the truth about the assassina-
tion. It isn't the FBI's fault that dozens
Release .2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
 Approved For Release 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
of its reports have been classified top describes a policy interview with \Irs. information on subversion and it's going
secret in the Archives by order of certain Teofil Mcilcr, a \1liiuc llussian ~rni~~rrr? to get what it needs not from Rhodes
officials in the Department of justice. in Dallas who had bclrieuded ()scald and scholars and divinity students but from
The trouble I face today is that, after Marina. Mrs. Muller resealed, recording apparently marginal figures like Lee Os-
four years, not only are these documents to the report, that "she saw the hook Wald with an entree into the political
unavailable but the trail has grown cold Kal)ital, which was written by Karl underworld.
in many areas. Ruby is dead. Ferric is Marx, during one of these visits at Os- PLAYaOY: If you see nothing sinister in
dead. Many other witnesses with Valuable wald's house and became very worried the FBI's relationship with Oswald, why
information have either been murdered about it. Subject [Mr. iA[eller] said he slid you subpoena FBI agents Regis Ken-
or fled the country. checked with the F13I and they told him nedy and Warren De Brucys to testify
PLAYBOY: You still haven't answered the that Oswald was all right." So here you before the New Orleans parish grand
question: Was Oswald involved with the have this "self-proclaimed Marxist," who jury?
FBI? had defected to the Soviet Union, tried GARRISON: Regis Kennedy is one of
GARRISON: Well, I just wanted to phrase to renounce his American citizenship and the FBI agents who interrogated David
my reply in such it manner that it was now allegedly active in pro-Castro Ferric in November 1963, and I hoped
wouldn't be misconstrued as a broadside activities, being given it clean bill of to learn from him what information the
against the entire FBI. Oswald may health by the FBI. It's quite possible that Bureau had elicited from Ferric. But on
have been a petty informer for the Bu- this clean bill of health was originally the instructions of our old friend Attor-
reau, receiving small sums of money in issued by the State Department, which, ncy General Ramsey Clark, Kennedy
return for information about left-wing in reply to an FBI request for informa- refused to answer the questions put to
activities in the Dallas-New Orleans tion about Oswald's activities in Russia him by the grand jury on the grounds of
area. But I must stress that there is no -this was shortly after his "defection"- executive privilege. Warren De Brucys is
indication of any connection between assured the Bureau that he was a solid a former FBI agent based in New Orleans
Oswald and the FBI with regard to the citizen. So I don't see anything sinister who also questioned Ferric in 1963. Bc-
assassination, and that his position with in all of this, at least as far as the FBI tween 1961 and 1963, Dc Brucys was
the FBI was in no way analogous to is concerned. The Bureau has to obtain involved with anti-Castro exile activities
his position with the CIA; the FBI re-
tains hundreds, perhaps thousands of
such informants across the country and
is no more responsible for their over-all
ternal Revenue Service is responsible for
the behavior of its confidential inform-
ants on tax-evasion matters. Oswald's
possible tics to the Bureau are never
mentioned in the Warren Report, but a
member of the Commission, Congressman
Gerald Ford, revealed in his otherwise
undistinguished book, Portrait of an As-
sassin, that the Commission was informed
by Texas Attorney General Waggoner
Carr and Dallas D. A. Henry Wade that
Oswald had been employed by the FBI as
an informant since September of 1962;
his salary, they revealed, was 5200 a
month and his FBI code number was
179. The Warren Commission acted
promptly on this information from two
responsible Texas officials: Chief Coun-
sel Rankin told the members of the
Commission that "We have a dirty rumor
that is very bad for the Commission .. .
and it is very damaging to the agen-
cies that are involved in it and it must be
wiped out insofar as it is possible to do
so by the Commission." The Commission
then launched one of its typically thor-
ough investigations: J. Edgar Hoover
.was asked if the alleged assassin of the
President of the United States had been
an employee of his; Mr. Hoover said
"No"; and the Commission closed the
case. If Congressman Ford hadn't devel-
oped writer's itch, we would never even
have heard of tile incident. Once again,
the Commission made an unwise choice
between tranquility and truth. There is
also other evidence linking Oswald to the
FBI-though, again, not in any conspira-
torial context A Dallas police investi-
gative report dated AI prryeld,Fi*6Release 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP19U6 2AO '0100100007-2 171
 Approved For Release 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
@4 in New Orleans and was seen frequently afraid, in t!ti, cage, we weren't as efficient estingly enough, the DIA is the abbrevia-
0 at. meetings of the right-wing Cuban as two young, gills who moved into Nov- tion for the Defense Intelligence Agency,
Democratic Revolutionary Front. I'd like ci's apartment a few weeks later and, a top-secret group set up after the Bay
to find out the exact nature of Dc Brucys' during it thorough house (leaning, found of Pigs to supervise the CIA and en-
W relationship with Lee Oswald. As long as a penciled rough draft of ;: letter under a sure increased Administration control of
19 Oswald was in New Orleans, so was Dc strip of linoleum on Lite kitchen-sink CIA activities-a task at which it has
ave it to
irls
of the
essful
l
O
d
i
b
l
l
g
g
.
.
ne
oare
y unsucc
ra
n
ar
proved spectacu
When Oswald moved to Dallas,
Brueys
.
Dc Brucys followed him. After the assassi- her boyfriend, a student at Tulane Uni- PLAYBOY: Novel subsequently fled New
Ps nation, De Brueys returned to New vcrsity, and lie in turn passed it oil to Orleans and took refuge in Ohio.
Orleans. This may all be coincidence, one of his professors, who subsequently Why were you unable to obtain his
but I find it interesting that De Brucys showed the letter to Iloke May, a report- extradition?
refuses to cooperate with our office- er for the New Orleans States-Item.. May GARRISON: The reason we were unable
significant and frustrating, because I feel had the letter examined by an independ to obtain Nextradition from Ohio
he could sited considerable light on Os- eat handwriting analyst, Gilbert Fortier, -the reason Novel's l ratable to extradite
wald's tics to anti-Castro groups. who compared it with other samples of we are
with this case-ts that
are connected
PLAYBOY: On March 23, 1967, you or- Novel's writing and determined th~it the anyone reason
powerful wforcei in Washingt
tiered the arrest of Gordon Novel as a draft had been written by Novel-a fact
material witness in the conspiracy to as- that was confirmed by Novel's attorney, ton who find it imperative to conceal
sassinate President Kennedy, and you who said that "everything in the letter as from the American public the truth
have subsequently sought his extradition far as Novel is concerned is actually the about the assassination. And as a re-
from Ohio. What role do you believe truth." This letter makes fascinating stilt, terrific pressure has been brought to
Novel played in the alleged conspiracy? reading. It is addressed to a Mr. Weiss, bear on the governors of the states in-
GARRISON: I can't go into all aspects of Novel's apparent superior in the CIA. volved to prevent them from signing the
Novel's activities, because we have a live Novel tells Weiss: "I took Lite liberty of extradition papers and returning the
case against him. Novel worked closely writing you direct and apprising you of defendants to stand trial. I'm sorry to say
with David Ferric and the anti-Castro current situation expecting you to for- that in every case, these Jell-o-spined
Cuban exiles. In 1961, he raided a muni- ward this through appropriate channels. governors have caved in and "played the
Lions bunker in Houma, Louisiana, with Our connection and activity of that pc- game" Washington's way. To give them
David Ferric and a prominent anti-Castro rind involved individuals presently about the benefit of. the doubt, I suppose it's
exile leader, and the weapons seized were to be indicted as conspirators in Mr. also possible that they just didn't want
subsequently shipped by CIA agents to Garrison's investigation." Novel goes on to aid and abet an investigation that
the counterrevolutionary underground in to warn that my probe was in danger of every official effort, overt and covert, has
Cuba. He also worked for the Evergreen exposing his tics to the Double- Chek been made to discredit as irresponsible
Advertising Agency in New Orleans, a Corporation in Miami, which the book motivation,
CIA front that alerted anti-Castro agents The Invisible Government exposes as a and unfounded.
Rhodes of Whatever Ohio, his name one,
to the date of the Bay of Pigs invasion by CIA front that recruited pilots and sabo-
placing coded messages in radio commer- tours for the Bay of Pigs and subsequent has said that he would allow me to extra-
cials for Christmas trees. Novel himself anti-Castro adventures. Novel writes in elite Novel to stand trial on charges aris-
was a paid employee of the CIA. As I the letter: "Mr. Garrison ... is unaware in, from the CIA-inspired burglary of
mentioned earlier, Novel's own lawyer, of Double-Click's involvement in this the ammunitions bunker in Houma,
Stephen Plotkin, has admitted that his matter but has strong suspicions." He Louisiana-but that I would not be
client is a CIA agent. On May 23, also adds that lie lied to the FBI: "I have allowed under the stipulations of the
1967, Plotkin was quoted in the New been questioned extensively by local FBI extradition agreement to question him
Orleans States-Item as saying that "his recently as to whether or not I was in- about the assassination! In other words,
client served as an intermediary be- volved with Doublc-Chck's parent hold- it's OK for me to'send a man to jail on
tween the CIA and anti-Castro Cubans ing corporation. . . . My reply on five it burglary rap, but I mustn't upset him
in New Orleans and Miami prior to the queries was negative. Bureau unaware of if he killed the President.
April 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion." And Double-Click association in this matter." by I'm inqalluiirin ng f iaf he
of protecting Pr dent.
that same clay, the Associated Press, The letter indicates that Novel was grow- 1
which has hardly served as my press agent ing edgy, because he complains: "We have Pendant's civil rights, but this is straight
in this case, reported: "When Novel first temporarily avoided one subpoena not to out of Alice in Wonderland.
fled from New Orleans, lie headed reveal Double-Click activities. . . . We PLAYBOY: The New Orleans States-Item
straight for McLean, Virginia, which is want out of this thing before Thursday, of June 14, 1967, quoted Novel as say-
the Central Intelligence Agency suburb. 3/-/67. Our attorneys have been told to ing that if he were granted immunity
This is not surprising, because Gordon expect another subpoena to appear and from the assassination investigation, lie
Novel was it CIA employee in the early testify oil this matter. The Fifth Amend- would be willing to testify on a number
Sixties." There is no doubt that Gordon merit and/or immunity and legal tactics of points, including "international fraud,
Novel was a CIA operative. will not suffice." In case the CIA decided mysterious intelligence activities from
PLAYBOY: If Lite CIA, as you charge, Novel was expendable, lie seems to have November 1959 to date in the Southern
not only refuses to cooperate with you taken out it kind of insurance policy: quadrant of the U. S. A. and certain is-
but has actively obstructed your investi- "Our attorneys and others are in posses- lands off Florida, seditious treason, hot
gation, how are you in a position to lion of complete scaled files containing. war games and cold munitions transfers,
know about Novel's activities on behalf all information concerning this matter. ten 1950-111odel Canadian surplus Valli-
of the Agency? In the event of our sudden departure,
pile jet supporter fighter aircraft and
GARRISON: The people of Louisiana pay either accidental or otherwise, they are
my investigators to investi ate. But in instructed to simultaneously release same certain Cuban-Anglo-Preach sabotage
this specific instance, we've benefited for public scrutiny in different areas." affairs of early 1961." Why did you re-
by sheer luck. After Novel fled the city Novel concludes his little billet-doux jeer his offer?
in March, my investigators and the city by urging the CIA to take "appropriate GARRISON: These are all intriguing aspects
police both scoured his apartment for counteraction relative to Garrison's ill- of Novel's career as a U. S. intelligence
evidence, but~,~1 z save erg?C~{ tr}} ilitat agent, and I'd love to hear about them
191YraYt0e0f'~~~'i knowledge of seditious
172 covered his trail pre~ttyef?ive'lyeige ~li'fi4fi 1'sBJdti-ft
 Robert Perrin, a gun runner and one-
time narcotics smuggler and, through
police intervention, secured a job as a
bartender at Ruby's Carousel (,III]). She
quit soon after and didn't see Ruby again
until one night when she and her hus-
band, as she tells it, attended a confer-
ence of anti-Castro exiles )resided over b
a lieutenant colonel-all colonel
she thought. She testified that Robert Per-
t rig was offered S10,000 if he would run
she haggled the sum up to 525,000. When
call was made and, shortly after, 'Mrs.
Rich recounts, "I had the shock of my
life. . . . :\ knock comes on the door
and who walks in but my little friend
Jack Ruby.... You could have knocked
me over with it feather . . . and every-
body looks like . . . here comes the
Savior." Ruby was the CIA bag man-
or paymaster-for the operation, and he
]eft immediately after handing over a
large sum in cash to the colonel. 'Mrs.
Rich and her husband subsequently
bowed out of the gun-smuggling deal,
because, in her words, "1 smelled an
clement that I did not want to have any
t part of." Afraid of retaliation, she and
Perin fled from Dallas and hid out in
several different cities. winding um finally
"They just don't make tzuo-way mirrors like the)' used to."
in New Orleans. A year later, lie was
found dead of arsenic poisoning. Though
it would be difficult to pick a slower and
more excruciating way to kill yourself, it
was officially declared a suicide. There are
h
i
'
Approved For Releas 20 2/08/28 ; IA_.kPZ9 0063t2A00 1 00007;
It as In 1. I with her husband,
er
nstances of Ruby
s anti-
u?cason-but that isn't the subject of my I have solid evidence indicating that too many ot
investigation. Ruby, Ferric, Oswald and others involved Castro activity to go into here. Ruby
PLAYBOY: Let's move on from Gordon in this case were all paid by the CIA to appears to have been the CIA's bag maul
Novel to Jack Ruby, who you claim perform certain functions: Ruby to smug- fora wide variety of anti-Castro adven-
murdered Oswald to "silence" hint. Do gee arms for Cuban exile groups, Ferric to tares. In this connection, let me point out
you have any evidence that Ruby and train theta and to fly counterrevolution- that one of the documents classified top
Oswald knew each other? ary secret missions to Cuba, and Oswald secret in the Archives is n CIA file entitled
GARRISON: Though Ruby and the Warren to establish himself so convincingly as a 1 he Activities of Jack Ruby." Perhaps
Report denied it vehemently, there is Marxist that be would will the trust of this will become a Book-of-the-Month
simply no question about it. We didn't American left-wing groups and also have Club selection in September 2038.
even have to do a great deal of investiga- freedom to travel as a spy in Communist PLAYBOY: Even if Ruby was associated
five digging: connections popped up countries, particularly Cuba. But I have with cert:un Cuban exile groups, as you
everywhere we scratched the surface. reason to believe that none of them claim, couldn't all of this be totally un-
PLAYBOY: What evidence do you have was a salaried agent operating under related to the assassination?
to support. your charge that Ruby was a direct chain of command. In this GARRISON: Ii could be, but it isn't. As
involved in anti-Castro exile activities particular case-though, as with the oth- a result of our investigation, I can say,
with Oswald and Ferric? ers involved, it seems to have been unre_ with the same certitude that I can say
GARRISON: We have evidence linking lated to his CIA work-Ruby was up to the stn will rise in the cast tomorrow
Ruby not only to aniti-Castro exile activi- his neck with the plotters. Our investiga- morning, that lack Ruby was involved
ties but, as with almost everyone else tors have broken a code Oswald used and in the conspiracy to kill John Kennedy.
involved in this case, to the Cl.' itself. found Ruby's private unlisted telephone Much of the evidence we've uncovered
Never forget that the CIA maintains a number, as of 1903. written ill Oswald's :'bout Ruby's involvement relates to our
great variety of curious alliances it feels notebook. The same coded number was court case against Clay Shaw. so the
serve its purposes. It may be hard to found in the address hook of :mother canon of legal ethics prevents Inc from
imagine Ruby in a trench coat, but he prominent figure in this case. We have broadcasting it before trial. But I will
seems to have been as good an employee further evidence linking Ruby to the give you one bit of evidence, recently
of the CIA as lie was a pimp for the conspiracy, but it involves testimony to uncovered by our office, that links Ruby
Dallas cops. Just let me add parent:heti- be given in court in the future, so I can't to the conspiracy. Four days before the
cally that I stress the word "employee" reveal it here. On the broader point of assassination, on November 18th, 1903, a
here as opposed to "agent." The CIA Ruby's involvement with anti-Castro exile young woman from Dallas named Rose
employs many people in many different activity, there can be no doubt what- Chet-amie was thrown from a moving car
capacities, sometimes just on a retainer soever. Let me refer you here to the tes- on a highway outside Eunice, Louisi:uta.
basis, and these individuals do not fall timony of Nancy Perrin Rich before the She was badly bruised and taken to the
under the over-all authority of the CIA. Warren Commission. This lad arrived East Louisiana Hospital in Jackson, Loui-
Approved For Release 2002/08/28: CIA-RDP79y 00632A000100100007-2
 Approved For Release 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
siana. When she came out of sedation,
on November 19th, she was distraught
and sobbed that she had been thrown
out of the car by associates of a man
named Jack Ruby in Dallas. She claimed
to have been sent by Ruby from Dallas
to Miami to pick up a shipment of
narcotics. When asked by a hospital
attendant-who fortunately took notes of
her remarks, in case the police had to be
called in-why she had been hurled
from the car, she replied that narcotics
smuggling was one thing, but she drew
the line at murder. The President, she
said, was going to be killed in Dallas
within a few days. At this point, sadly
enough, the hospital authorities seemed to
dismiss her as hysterical and lost interest
in her story, although she repeated it in
detail the next day. After the assassina-
tion, of course, people in the hospital be-
came interested once more, but she had
already checked out, leaving no forward-
ing address other than Dallas. Texas.
There the story stood until a few months
ago, when we began searching for Miss
Clicramic, but it was too late. After the
assassination, she was killed by a hit-and-
run driver on a highway outside Dallas.
PLAYBOY: If Jack Ruby was really the
sinister and cunning figure you paint
him, why would lie kill Oswald in the
Dallas city jail, where his own appre-
hension and conviction for murder were
inevitable? Wasn't this more logically the
act of a temporarily deranged man?
GARRISON: First of all, let me dispose
of this concept of the "temporarily de-
ranged man." This is a catchall term,
employed whenever the real motive of a
crime can't be nailed down. In the over-
whelming majority of instances, the ac-
tions of human beings are the direct
consequences of discernible motives. This,
is the fatal flaw of the Warren Report
-its conclusion that the assassination of
President Kennedy was the act of a tem-
porarily deranged man, that the murder
of Officer Tippit was equally meaningless
and, finally, that Jack Ruby's murder of
Oswald was another act of a temporarily
deranged individual. It is, of course,
wildly improbable that all three acts were
(,;incidentally the aberrant acts of tein-
uorarily deranged men-although it's
most convenient to view them as such,
because that judgment obviates the lie-
-,situ of relentlessly investigating the
~ssibility of a conspiracy. In Jack
.,by's case, his murder of Lee Oswald
ic,is the sanest act lie ever committed;
if Oswald had lived another clay or so,
lie very probably would have named
names, and jack Ruby would have been
convicted as a conspirator in the assas-
sination plot. As it was, Ruby made the
best of a bad situation by rubbing out
Oswald in the Dallas city jail, since this
no doubt in Ruby's mind that he would
be arrested, he could very well have en-
tertained hopes of escaping conviction.
You've got to remember the atmosphere
in Dallas and across the country at that
time: when word was flashed to the crowd
outside the jail that Oswald had been
shot, they burst into wild applause.
Ruby's lawyer, Tome Howard, spoke for a
sizable segment of public opinion when
he said, "I think Ruby deserves a Con-
gressional Medal," and the largest-
circulation newspaper in the country, the
New York Daily News, eclitorializecl after
Oswald's death that "the only good
murderer is a (lead murderer and the
only good Communist a dead( Commu-
nist." In the two days between his arrest
and his liquidation, Oswald had been
convicted by the mass media as the Presi-
dent's assassin and as a Communist, and
Ruby may well have felt that lie would
be acquitted for murdering such a uni-
versally despised figure. It turned out, of
course, that lie was wrong, and he be-
came a prisoner of the Dallas police,
forced over a year later to beg Earl War-
ren to take him back to Washington, be-
cause lie wanted to tell the truth about
"Wily Illy act was committed, but it can't
be said here . . . my life is in danger
Jere." But Ruby never got to Washing-
ton, and lie's joined the long list of wit-
nesses with vital information who have
shuffled off this mortal coil.
?LAYBOY: Penn Jones, Norman Mailer
and others have charged that Ruby was
injected with live cancer cells in order to
silence him. Do you agree?
GARRISON: I can't agree or disagree, since
I have no evidence one way or the other.
But we have discovered that David
Ferric had a rather curious hobby in addi-
tion to his study of cartridge trajectories:
cancer research. He filled his apartment
with white mice-at one point lie had
almost 2000, and neighbors complained-
Wrote a medical treatise on the subject
and worked with a cumber of New Or-
leans doctors on means
cancer in mice. After the
of inducing
assassination,
act could be construed as an argument <
that lie was "temporarily deranged." But 510118 W611s (10 not a In-ison 'nulke, bill throul in
I differ with the ass n) i n of,}j r c t s- Q9'71]e(l ~'11(G1-(iy and a renera(l Inch
riot, because, while tli i ~oulPd`Pi ~~etelPtlease 2002/08/2?f:(9IAn 79rft0 33R 410 9WAQ D7)tR'."
 Approved For Release 2002/08/28: CIA-RDP79-00632A00010 1000-7-
4 one of these physicians, Dr. Mary Sher- in the Archives. Then we'll all have a hemorr sage. au you subsequently re-
B man, was found hacked to death with a chance to see for ourselves how clear solved the discrepancy in your points of
kitchen knife in her New Orleans apart- it is that Ferrie wasn't involved. Every view?
7 merit. Her murder is listed as unsolved. scrap of evidence we've uncovered-and GARRISON: Dr. Nicholas Chetta is an
a Ferrie's experiments may have been pure- it hasn't been difficult to lied--reveals excellent coroner, and inasmuch as he
19 ly theoretical and Dr. Sherman's death not only the fact of his involvement but found a total absence of traceable poi-
completely unrelated to her association the reasons for it. His politics were ultra- sons or barbiturates in Ferrie's system, I
14 with Ferrie; but I do find it interesting right wing, as I indicated earlier, but would respect his opinion that it was a
W that Jack Ruby (lied of cancer a few we've been able to determine conclu- natural death. On the other hand, I can't
weeks after his conviction for murder lively that his motivation was closer to help but lend a certain weight to two
had been overruled in appeals court and that of the Cuban exiles on the "op- suicide notes Ferrie left ill his apartment,
one of which said how sweet it Was to
he was ordered to stand trial outside of erative" level-a burning hatred of
Dallas-thus allowing him to speak Fidel Castro. AVhen Castro was it guerrilla finally leave this wretched life. I suppose
freely if lie so desired. I would also note ill the Sierra Maestra, Ferrie is reliably it could just be a weird coincidence that
that there was little hesitancy in killing reported to have piloted guns for him. penned two suicide
died Ferric
na pentural causes.
Lee Harvey Oswald in order to prevent But in 1959, when Castro started to the notes, nilie of ght
Irian from talking, so there is no reason to show his Marxist colors, Ferric appears PLAYBOY: Your cynics have charged that
suspect that any more consideration to have felt betrayed and reacted our releYous investigation r Ferrie
would have been shown Jack Ruby if he against Castro with all the bitterness of a y
had posed a threat to the architects of suitor jilted by his girl. From that mo- and the publicity the press gave to your
the conspiracy. menu on, lie dedicated himself to Castro's charges against him induced the state
PLAYBOY: You've claimed that many of overthrow and began working with of hypertension that was said to have
the people involved in the conspiracy exile groups such as the Cuban Demo- caused his fatal hemorrhage. Do you feel
were "neo-Nazi" in their political orien- cratic Revolutionary Front and planning in any way responsible for Ferrie's death,
tation. What would motivate Ruby, a airborne missions against Castro's military GARRISON: I had nothing but pity for
Jew, to work with such people? installations. He was, reported to have Dave Ferrie while he was alive, and I
GARRISON: Money. As far as my office been paid up to $1500 a mission by an have nothing but pity for him now that
has been able to determine, Jack Ruby ex-Batista official named l.ladio del he's dead. Ferric was a pathetic and tor-
had no strong political views of his own. Valle. But I haven't been able to check aired creature, a genuinely brilliant man
Historically, of course, there have been a out Del Valle's involvement with Ferrie, whose twisted drives locked him into his
number of self-hating Jews who abetted because on February 22, 1967, the same own private hell. If I had been able to
their own tormentors: Adolf Hitler's day Ferrie died in New Orleans, Del Help Ferric, I would have; but he was
mentor in Vienna, Karl Lueger, was born Valle's head was split open by a hatchet in too deep and he was terrified. From
a Jew, and I understand that one of the and he was shot through the heart in Mi- the moment lie realized we had looked
leading pro-Nazis in New York City, a ami. His murder is listed as unsolved by behind the faSade and established that
retired millionaire who finances anti- the Miami police. In any case, Ferrie was Lee Oswald was anything but a Commu-
d
Jewish activity across the country, is the recruited by the CIA, which employed Dist, from the moment he knew we had
son of a rabbi. But I don't believe Jack hundreds of such people in their network discovered the role of the CIA and ai
Ruby falls into this category; he was just of anti-Castro exile activities. From the Castro adventurers in the assassiaio ti-
a hoodlum out for a buck. I will say- Bay of Pigs oil, he hated Kennedy as much Ferric began to crumble psychologically.
with the understanding that it's pure as lie did Castro; he felt that J. F. K. Fe answer your question directly-yes,
speculation-it's not impossible that Jack had betrayed the invasion brigade by not 1 So, to suppose I may uave been responsible for
Ruby developed certain guilt feelings in sending in air cover. As the events I Ferric's death. If I had left this case
prison over his role in the plot. Remem- described earlier led to a delc-nte between alone, if I had allowed Kennedy's mur-
her his repeated lament, "Now there will Russia and America, and as the FBI- derers to continue to walk the streets of
be pogroms. They will kill all the Jews."? under Kennedy's orders-started crack- America unimpeded, Dave Ferric would
Most people assumed this was just the ing down on the CIA-supported and,
probably be alive today. I don't feel per-
fantasy of a crumbling mind. But maybe Castro underground, Ferric's hatred for sonally guilty about Ferric's death, but I
Jack Ruby knew better than the rest of Kennedy grew more and more obsessive. do feel terribly sort' for the waste of all-
its what the master-racist authors of the Let me add here that this isn't just specu- other human being. In a deeper sense,
assassination had in mind for the country. lation on my part; we have a number e Ferrie died on November
PLAYBOY: Let's move on from Jack Ruby of reliable witnesses who were privy to tthoufghQ, DavFe o that moment ve be
to David Ferric. Wesley Licbcler, the Ferries thoughts at this period and saw couldn't save himself, and I couldn't
Warren Commission counsel who handled his hatred of Kennedy develop into a him. Ferrie could have quoted as
the New Orleans end of the inquiry, said driving force. After the assassination, as save epitaph m the lcst words of the Serb
Ferrie "was picked up shortly after the a matter of fact, something psychologi- er asta words
ifovitch b b
assassination and questioned by local tally curious happened to Ferrie: He ps fore Tleadshoe him for i khailo itch: e-
officials of the FBI. I remember spe- dropped out of anti-Castro exile activi wits Tito it n ill the ales of history."
cihclly doing up a substantial stack of ties, left the pay of the CIA and drifted Was Swept t Mally of sip ii the professional le of h cFBI reports on Ferric that we reviewed aimlessly while his emotional problems Pf the PLAYBOY: Warren Commission appear critics
i be
in order to make our determination." He increased to the point where he was 0iotai ~ted b political onva ear to be
states that the FBI reports on Ferrie were totally dependent on huge doses of trap the left l are b anxious to prove Kennedy
not included in the Commission's 26 quilizers and barbiturates. I don't know Was Murdered by a cousproseKe within the
volumes of evidence, "because it was so if Ferric ever experienced any guilt as mureed conspiracy the ithin are
clear he wasn't involved." Why do you about the assassination itself; but in his establishment; and the assassination those Oil ghs are
refuse to accept this explanation? last months, he was a tortured man. eager to 1) all
GARRISON: I think it's a lovely explana- PLAYBOY: After Ferries death, you called act of "the international Communist con-
tion. Now perhaps Mr. Liebeler will in. it "an apparent suicide," but the coroner spiracy." Where would you place your-
tercede with the Department of Justice announced that the autopsy showed death self on the political spectrum-right,
to release 25 )ages of the FBI report on was clue to a ruptured blood vessel at the left or center?
1 is a question I've asked
176 Ferrie that 1t+iF~l~"c~WQ s~it~'(1R leartS~ 2002/N/28 -POIA-RtiF' 9-10063`2A'6601 ibbvo - a `1
 Approved For Release 2002/08/28 : CIA-RDP79-00632A000100100007-2
P4 myself frequently, especially since this is my profession, I've always wondered now dominates every aspect of our life.
0 investigation started and I found myself about the judges L,41-oughout Germany The power of the states and Congress
in all incongruous and disillusioning who sentenced tncn to jail for picking has gradually been abandoned to the
battle with agencies of my own Govern- pockets at it time when their own govern- Executive Department, because of war
ment. I can't just sit down and add up meat was jerking gold from the teeth conditions; and we've seen tile creation
my political beliefs like a mathematical of men murdered in gas chambers. I'm of an arrogant, swollen bureaucratic
sum, but I think, in balance, I'd turn up concerned about all of this because it complex totally unfettered by the checks
somewhere around the middle. Over the isn't a German phenomenon; it.'s a hu- and balances of the Constitution. In a
years, I guess I've developed it somewhat man phenomenon. It can happen here, very real and terrifying sense, our Gov-
conservative attitude-in the traditional because there has been no change and ernment is the CIA and the Pentagon,
libertarian sense of conservatism, as op- there has been no progress and there with Congress reduced to a debating
posed to the thumbscrew-and-rack con- has been no increase of understanding society. Of course, you can't spot this
servatism of the paramilitary right- on the part of men for their fellow man. trend to fascism by casually looking
particularly in regard to the importance What worries me deeply, and I have seen around. You can't look for such familiar
of the individual as opposed to the state it exemplified in this case, is that we in signs as the swastika, because they won't
and the individual's own responsibilities America are in great danger of slowly be there. We won't build Dachaus and
to humanity. I don't think I've ever tried evolving into a proto-fascist state. It will Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of
to formulate this into a coherent political be a different. kind of fascist state from the mass media is creating a concentra-
philosophy, but at the root of my con- the one the Germans evolved; theirs tion camp of the mind that promises to
cern is the conviction that a human grew out , 1 dcl:ressio; and promised be far more effective in keeping the popu-
being is not a digit; he's not a digit in bread and sn,ik. while ours, curiously lace in line. We're not going to wake up
regard to the state and lie's not a digit enough, nu, to be emerging from one morning and suddenly find ourselves
in the sense that he can ignore his fellow prosperi:p. ;ut in the final analysis, it's in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to
men and his obligations to society. I was based on powcr and on the inability to work. But this isn't the test. The test
with the artillery supporting the division put human goals and human conscience is: What happens to the individual who
that took Dachau; I arrived there the above the dictates of the state. Its origins dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was
day after it was taken, when bulldozers can be traced in tine tremendous war physically destroyed; here, the process
were making pyramids of human bodies machine we've built since 1945, the is more subtle, but the end results can
outside the camp. What I saw there has "military-industrial complex" that Eisen- be the same. I've learned enough about
haunted me ever since. Because the law hower vainly warned its about, which the machinations of the CIA in the
th
t thi
i
n
l
n
e
k
now
g
past year to
a
s
s
o
o
r
the dreamworld America I once believed
in. The imperatives of the population
explosion, which almost inevitably will