MEETING WITH IAC REPRESENTATIVES OF PROJECT BLUEBIRD

• Document Type: SPECIALCOLLECTION
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): 00144820
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 5
• Document Creation Date: November 22, 2024
• Document Release Date: January 15, 1983
• Publication Date: July 25, 1951

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51:� 191)1:CT; --rez3tarzuii mtrz"r422xv....yezttatives a Project 21uobir.1
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PRIMER: -131�Sigaili; CI&
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Kr. J. U. Anarti, ray/ racier= .
Cdr.. -.1.enharg: 1.7aVy Altcr=te .. �
7.1.1rid E. Goulds Air Force Desiemee7r,���:::.t.-.t.-..
1st, Col. 1:1111.....mH.Ilrundors, A.mY
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�1 the development of the Project uith.in CIA..
�����*---:- This prou..rn l=s :hes. teoruse it bcoe� �evidont that s=-3 rez_sures.
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. =at be ton to pro72s protection for 'cm. pervormal air-A:1st 507ict
.;:�..-interrocztion tech.:At:ans. Ileocs=cre.mtiono -;:ere made to 112'. Dales, there�
fore, tbab a -hir,h.pritirity pro��=be�ostabli'shecl'on tl4s sa'ajzot. Ths �
���prozrrm yes accept:4 --j�-Nr. Delos and approved -o:r. t1c DCI. J.t Eel �
-ezeouti76 version at the 11.0 on 2 11-pril 1951, ths prer-= yes
to tin he of the � c'llor inLe.13.1.z.nce arpnoics they wci-e x�ccric;Ited
to r..-z-4....inatia cl;:z4-c,....ftec:e to t:r2: vit4 the Assistant Director for Sciontific-..t.:;;.-
.7..rntalizonio on.tb.o =atter. roch-Or.a of tizo dosit,rzes k.P.5 been a2pror.e1:4�41.�.::�.
3. it-Son-ally to deter.tize Ids expa...-L�montfsinterests. o4pro'-rers
4 CC in preesse �scs ftho'n=orandtri to each dosicrrae
for tho .72eciflo objecti-res� of his departi,x3nt rie-for infor.-...ation on
eztal.:iisheci. or plannzd prors�- Me date of 20 July for .sulraisSien or
� this Is.fol.r.t.tion WAS CSt.lblitalled � t.-e of a meting...of convaltants
-.the pojCt schrnaulca� for 23..�7t1Y. � � � �
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2. l'a��� labcrti- cutliazd in. detail 'the ravy prog,--aa ar3. his. concept ,.
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of the over-r/l.objectivess ,s,-,�-��� � .. 4-� �� � , � � �-�:--z�-�-
'-%;.- a.. Ilefortivo arnr.icti 'km ox-rz:13.o cC tho'acticn ttkon b as
- raniin th.t1-..re.uttri is a briefina� Ir.. Lit-art& giver. to
vcrsontol litich consists �cri=--rilzi.of Izzlectrirfstion or conditicr_i,nz.
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' � . . The c...-nz,..nt 1:avy rozverch effort started in 191:7 at Ectbercla�- -rt
Thes.A.T. arrl the Air rorco rero cf_vircd. of this offort 1:11c1: prccecdcA " i�
raticr racrdly Eva to lfratr.tions in funds, otc. � The next
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.dovolor. occiu._-,--cd at abolt the CZ= 1:12en in b about a year.�-:
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rpproached nr. Alborti for await In':
.-����co=octiem.with.Pro:,..::ct rauebird (in thio crimection I:r. Ance-.1.-
..- � racceztcd that tho ote* 5.1-r.=o for the.CIA Project bo� chanced Gine* - -
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.:...�����,...:1,..121r.cloirdn �referred AA a. specific trporotion uhich is .ne-.: completed.)
:-.,�:.':�.:2Co1. rduardes projet cor...stod ra-iraarlly of tho Awl of terco- .������-
.. ���:bninosisia= r.echanicel nide...Rich as. ti� lie dotector. Tho CIA* ;
- -- �Project ad rot. uso cora of tho drags of.f=eil by AL� ravy raxl. *tiro ���-
''' apportznity.fcr tcotinr,1 theca in' that project II= � t110113fOrt3 lost. .� - '
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"b. At &cut tho szae tizza the rawy re-analyzed the repartrLn.
Defonse.prolocto am-corned witIvobt-,4ning inteLlIgonce frers
-.Intorrogaticle =d decided that there were limitations en �capab5.11:-.�
�*. tepartn.mt of refonso due to the l culby of con- 7
� ductina tects en etc. tie took the rattor tv) . ' �
ith.frl rrcr.zn to 'igs6 asso.at....%ci. with Dr lion-ins' in the Offico';
-of -the Sem�otary of Defe=o.=d who lalr.z.of the ravy interest because .1.,
of bin
:-';ory.l.Surem-7. /it that tino also, the .ray � *who 1.*�as
provioos position as Di...rector of nesearch, � ,rets. of 1-Zedioine.�:'-,-.
, � :workinz on Itmotion sin:mos-en problems. A ji�ojc.-ct :us este ���
uithAMENIS Iri�thalagg allocated by �OM over a poried
� of tIrreo . OM to date had 0.5-orrIc.d C50,000 for which
� , att.-to:Yutoroll.tarsed by the Office
. a Secretary of refm:se.y;
.Tho Airzu.4. Air 'Force h-iefed on this project.,�� Ale� joint.
�:=GtiEG3 1/07.0 held with CIA ani the ES', �bixt .not tho Tep=tment
The 1713I?s- reaction TIZiu ��no i.vrterest mth.ing to contribut.i'�_�.`;
.�ootad not remit. intorest in rich a project ca2y-Gray.�:.!...,:�,:����7-74�� - -:;;',4����-���=7-1;
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C. � Aleo at the aa".'t4rxt, .0.1.13 advised 01:1 O-Z theafflErroject���-�,_
� at the University of Tx:liana. This project is in e=enco- a more,.
- for -raid lz.--'4cations of deception other than the =coll.-n.1=1
cators naz balms used.. It els� considercd ccestain other ke_ot;n2
rechau:..ical indicators trach a eye-3.:otions, etc. his project
11.11*-.2=11 4:504030 Lary awl Air rare�. r;25,CCO
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sr=2.27, 1-1r..11.1bcrti..sts.�ted that tho Tacit:to .ohjeot-ivez of
oso projects are the deq.-elerzwnt of off.cneive_ technique.- Tzr4.7 are �
��coorr13.nated�Deptrt----ant of refer:se:project:: under. the nareant..coritrolq:45.-:: -
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of �0111.� � All ilrforzation on�sach projects ziU ho =to evaariblo to
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.3ho -ran/ also lies on ir:t6rxe Leiter-est .in devolOpirm.r.c.: tochnicuos- for
..ar.....--istrmeeto interrocatien defer:siva v�ccts). ���� � !�--1; ����� -�*: ,
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'.7.ne Air :/orce nes:bar advised, that �ha would be ica.ced:.to give, *a �������� �
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-.1%-port �-on acti7itics in hit; eLerce.4.712nt until further' or-atiof
-;:-..eould�be� obtained. - � . .
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* '." ..,4�����,,���?.. � ...rile Alw raaiber edrised that he ur..a. in sabout)the same position.
:-.except the, he 1,24 Icra-sed of-a-project at liarrard University ursler ���� � �
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. Dr,..�4-0,-:.--. ....- L._ Laieves thet this prof....,c17-1:. ...11.tho.' yeluotrle f.t.old,.,-
.--�: is uncla.z,..,Ified,- ruld vaj do-.1.�1.cped ar.c.1 is controlled b.:, the Off.ice of the
-. Zr.27,-0012 coneral of tho .74 � - � �
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� It is re......-rpop blo for; conti:-.1.1cd sur-voir.enco of for.03...sn orforts in 't2:.-13 ....:.
field 'mat is not 1.-riof.c-d :A.-412as no rosponsibility for t.his projeat
:. 1. =Cll. He is hanu-Iiir.g o".-azythinz.r.ndor his 'personal direction:with all .... �
���-� - -.� - ' Ixdividuals in CIA lizid re toia'e to 1%-:-.r1c.--Igo, etc. :. ..� .. . .�:.: �_.7 ....... - .� � ���:* � -
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6. Tho r,orviCe nerlers. Frou. sht up tho :tibject of manuals no:r- in
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preparation in. tho Joint Chiefs of�Staff to servo as ixidanoe.as to the
attitudr3 to to rzleptod by IL.nbers of tho Arzeci Services when captured: �
Moro is a series of JCS papers (classification TO? emittr.) thich
approved vill bs rat.-ti.ttcd throuch -the NI to the IZational Scotn.ity
Council!, trhon app2-017.-4 thc.so will result in unclassified chat�octives.
. � and r!..�=als for the �02.idorzo of all service parson:Isl.-. Th.0 prinary puivozo
Is to adviso cervix� r.orsor.nel on: ��
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U. gos. to avoid disolosim ineonaation when captured..
' � x- b. � Tim to tvoid toetinzs or othor Soviet tecimiques beast:So .thoy
-. � -are m.,^?eoted of having such inforzaticn. This is --minly a pes..t� of
� the: defensive or resistenco ar.poct� � � � ��
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.-- 7. nr. Alb:Tti acor.1 to cdvise rr Veen the ZCS papers --�
JCS 2053) v.ro re.-dy for trusszlittal to iZi iCZ.
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`. 3.- Itr. Ched=11 then Elezer4.....'d the prorr�mmt vithin CIA. Thom. is an � --
intorn:a 1:ork_cnc, ccoup cmoser.1 of representztives from the interetr-d ..
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� 10 steot rocacrly to insuro contituting proaress
coordination with =LI-loot to each r..T.2ect of tho proco n uhich ono or
� =re cecapon..-nito of Ca hen" c.n interest. The inforz..--tion on the: or.i4,-to=o ..*.'
of the proleot is 1.tcd to a :Cos in.lividuels An each of tho intereztcd,;�
offices tind this list is on record here.N04- �������,4-,
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9. In addition, CI % 717:3zn Gutziao vorkinc La-cpp conpozi.d of 'cc-
potont..:-,ciontists aa folic-gas �
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wre=p'whicli will to lricfcd on 23 July at uhleh. tino it-is hop,A�
to COW/111C0 11= that 'Lb* ;1'0411Ct is r.ertky of their attontion and as �
-mach of their tin., as thoy c2=r3 fran their other rooponsibilit_i.ap.
:It is hoped that wi can te tho.Lr.thirldnz and obtain s=e construe- �
raceme-Lions-as to tpcoiao approaches to to various raccerch, aspoots.1
--acf.1113.-pro-ject. ,In this ces=ations thcro be ed-eritzental proD,ems
Th.:which con be corrioi cut in We co=t--7.- �.Thero will also be proceens
. -tad:Lich 'cannot to dots) bore ard lrzy take the fors of the orietral project
'Tho resulta of tho lattor.typo or averlrent will probably to*. 7
pcovtod ..Itn two 'lavas � - �
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e. � Eubstantiva reports on the detailed inroreation obtained fr..-
dr.dividuca..- Moses ar3 not our concorn and will to lemma thror4t
� rooLlar establialadi tcfl o.co charentaa.
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-�� b.- .Tochnleal reporto - Th=0 aro rorts Which would be nada by:�:;3.:
technical ob-ovtoro on the roactions of tho EIlbZ,t71Ct with razz:cot to
t:ho teaLnicp,e3 ucad azzi170.2..14..eono back for =vim/ by the test -sciontif:
. c,otence available. Tato would .then sazzost .n.--v.hr awn:melee and
.generato Su.rbhor ozporinentation. .11r. Allorti noted the daficu1ty:.7:A.."�:;:--
. which aroze in commotion with oriuinal Projact.Ittuebird rarl askcd
that adevate notice of ricu CIA operations for research purpooes
:this fie.ld be Eive2.2 to. the norvice ropresontatives.
10. The subject of collation of I.:Oar:cation tfaich 'is kr:-..= to to
-available% ion ucat cip.f.ntitios on the teolusigaos used on larla.'-ridualo tho
boon in to hcv,tso.t tho Soriets liga considered. Mr. 'A3.berti
.1. -that this 'creaks down into to =in cateecrioss � �
� - 7 'it' .72e �
'-':����������,. --..a� :7.r.forrtati�on on -17:4!..errer�ation 'of *copizri ed persor.s for the � -......tirz-:4'�
parpe:.-e of �Vol:Linz intelli7enco. ' Th{.-m: is practIcelly noir_for- .s.....-'..5.;-..*;
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-- nation avallablo on tho tee:mimeo us...4 in this goanection...... � - -..."::;
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b..' tr.fomation on intorrocations to 'obtain cm:resat-3ns... Thero--.5.e...
!...-..::.:.1auten. to be no.antaine of info:mation on this rabject aLl of.1-11..ich 74..0...:..-
�-----*:teon collated by interastod ofricizas in the Dopa...-t=nt of _r-zracco
ltitonr,11 no strarary has lyen prEpared and it is not tailored .1:ica.r.ach -'
......'.. .42 1.1=417 is necessary. . � . . .� ..�.,.:;.:*:---".?�t_-�,._:�,.�/-:.:i�-,.....i--.-� ..- .!'.�:-..:.:..:4-,.......-:, .�'�:�.:;-.
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....!'7.:':�����.......:*--i.-.7:-.2.1..' 'It was tralseed that itl:oild to constructi-ra to trii,.,1 toeother ille-l'--
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.- � . - -.-...---. ..**7 -ArirV.540 deplunces arLi the GU consultant pane]. . at on cavly da. to.: It uoild.t-F,
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pi..zr,111-..7 Cz.ptcial Xel.I.Iza tou:thar uith -111._si croup it. �,:.....:. .. - .:�-� -.�
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.... . '''''� 12. A cur-motion f:a3 4.::.-J.10 -that sir.co wo uill ovontually =at tho .-
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�problca Of cl.t.--air.1223 .funis for rec.:area Peto tho varicras part5_air-ati.n3
-.. .. - aLercies, concidaration..b.?, -6.-Lvan to utilizina oki.stinz- and establie.cd.
�. . ccer.eics foi? thifpiu-poi-:.Tho Air 'Fora� raci.foor r_cntioncd in parti.r.n17.1r �
� .. .: - the co:rat:co c-i r.---alicar oerviecc under tho Air.leco Ile:march crid Dovalcz.
leant Cc-,---4.-2x1.� : - ����� �.-. ;� . .,��.: ..... .
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.: 13..._... Cdi.14114164.bricfcd tho En.cap on oar sO:rtacts.uith thoik laisilabi.. --
- er-4., . --prccemthtitts �in 10130ft and also ear di:ion:731o= icith �t:1.3 ..-
- in connaction.trith t11.3 Lubjact. In both eases, no irAlcation or active �-:.:.'::
�� particIpation in tills rizttor either in CIA, or tho Department of Daranco .-- ��:
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- ---.--.'-....%. Y... -.::* ..� � ..,,-.-,_. r ..:�.1�-:!, �:-. � lit. roocIbil217 of re-ft:pi-me-11ns tho FBI zilsieh ao fazis /-14.0atOaTtl.:�.:�.:f..
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�---�-�-,,----,---- -�-�-� no intaract in ilds projcot urn dicoucce4. 77.=-3 ourzcstad which. ziiit.-.-..."-'-."...
��-� -- -*:-:-..-:..- to nrcfs1 in tluls connection :zero provicloi. Va.. 4vagebb,..r.rd nr..iggiisam,
7 The for=or is probrb3.7 tho intlirldzal Irith 'the real LT.c:flodze "-
^ .:...........--::-._ uhile the latter is the FBI liaison officer. Trith the sorricec������..�.� � � �������: .----�
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