MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: Library of Congress
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): LOC-HAK-280-8-5-7
• Release Decision: RIPLIM
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 3
• Document Creation Date: January 11, 2017
• Document Release Date: February 1, 2010
• Sequence Number: 5
• Publication Date: November 11, 1974
• Content Type: MEMO

No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01: LOC-HAK-280-8-5-7
MEMORANDUM
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
SECRET /SENSIT
1:3 0 p.m.
The President
John McCone, former Director 'of
Central Intelligence
Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy
Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
]SATE AND TIME: Monday, November 11, 1974
PLACE: The Oval Office
The White House
[After initial pleasantries and small talk, the conversation turned to the
problems of the intelligence community.
Mr. McCone: I wanted to talk about the CIA and the fact that its image is
being tarnished, both here and in Europe. People talk to me in a way far
different from the way they did a few years ago. I am deeply concerned that
it may be more than Colby. Nothing I say should be construed as criticism
of Colby and the. Agency. I had my eye on him for years and he is very able.
But I fear two things: The loss of image lowers morale and people leave
the Agency, and second, the Agency is no longer the most attractive to
college graduates. There are some things which can be done. [He hands
the President a paper. ]
The role and mission of the Agency and the intelligence community must be
redefined and reaffirmed. This means:
The authority of the Director over the intelligence community must
be reaffirmed. President Kennedy did that for me.
-- The question of Agency personnel abroad: There is an attitude of
why should CIA have anybody abroad. They are there mostly to
help the host country.
SECRET /SENSITIVE
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01 : LOC-HAK-280-8-5-7
 No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01: LOC-HAK-280-8-5-7
SECRET /SENSITIVE Z
-- The use of covert political activity: It is much less now than it
used to be, as you know. There must be an understanding on the
Hill that we must keep this in reserve as long as the KGB does it.
The President: Most of them on the Hill do, but you get these zealots,
together with some of the press, who just don't give a damn.
Mr. McCone: I met with Senator Church before the hearings and he under-
stands, but then he shot barbed questions at me. I would hope you would
meet with the Senate leaderhip and resolve the dispute between the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee and Armed Services. The House is much
better organized. When Dick Russell was there I got him to invite Fuibright.
He didn't want to.
The Harrington matter arose because of the House rule. If you could bring
about a. situation where surveillance by these committees would constitute
surveillance by the House . . .
The President: We had a leadership meeting recently where we went into
this, and I think we have it pretty well taken care of.
Mr. McCone: I think at a breakfast you could also reaffirm the roles and
missions. He [Colby] should also have access to you. I had access to 25X1
President Kennedy. President Johnson was different. Allen Dulles had
constant contact with Ike.
The President: I meet daily with I met with Colby three
times before SALT, and we also had a meeting on the 40 Committee. I
was surprised at how little we spend on covert activities.
Mr. McCone: I suspected it myself and I reduced it from the Dulles days.
The President: What is your thought on whether DIA is a good organization.
Has it been effective?
Mr. McCone: Yes. It is an instrument of the JCS, and to that extent it is
parochial, but it does a good job. It has a lot of civilians, under Civil
Service. It is a good idea, but I insisted that the Service intelligence
chiefs still sit on the USIB.
SECRET /SENSITIVE
No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01 : LOC-HAK-280-8-5-7
 No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01 : LOC-HAK-280-8-5-7
SECRET /SENSITIVE
Another subject is PFIAB. I would look at that -- it needs revitalization,
including the chairman and staff. It should be revitalized and it should
have higher visibility. Then if it is shuffled, it could meet with the select
committees.
The President: I met with them a couple of times when I was Vice President.
There are some. good people on the board.
Mr. McCone: Admiral Anderson is a good friend of mine but he is not an
intelligence officer.
The President: Didn't Johnson put General J. C. Meyer on it?
Mr. McCone: There used to be a man by the name of Coyne who ran the staff.
He knew the bureaucracy and he knew his way around. Giving this Board
visibility and authority would help defuse some of the criticism that CIA
is running wild. [Looking over a list of Board membership:] Land, Cherne,
Baker, Gray are all good. Shultz is. good. Teller is a fine guy but emotional.
The Board needs visibility.
The President: Brent, I want to meet with the PFIAB next time. Also I will
meet with the leadership after the first of the year to discuss the handling
of briefings and CIA oversight.
Mr. McCone: There is legislation on the Hill for criminal penalties for
people like Agee.
The President: Make a note of that, Brent.
Mr. McCone: What you need to show is that the Agency is not a free-wheeling
unsupervised agency.
The President: Could I change the subject for just a minute? You have wide
acquaintance around. Would you send me any names of people you think
would fit in at the top or any-where? That I would appreciate.
Mr. McCone: I will be glad to. I gave some to Bill Scranton. I will send
you a list.
The President: I don't anticipate any major changes. I don't want any change
on Kissinger's or for the moment Schlesinger.
[There was a brief discussion of energy, reorganization, and the conversation
ended. ]
gErxa-Wrr /cTPriiorrrTV
No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01 : LOC-HAK-280-8-5-7