MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: Library of Congress
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): LOC-HAK-283-4-18-4
• Release Decision: RIFLIM
• Original Classification: C
• Document Page Count: 3
• Document Creation Date: January 11, 2017
• Document Release Date: September 26, 2012
• Sequence Number: 18
• Publication Date: February 25, 1976
• Content Type: MEMO

No Objection to Declassification in Full 2012/09/26: LOC-HAK-283-4-18-4
1
MEMORANDUM
THE WHITE HOUSE
WAS
-CE:517FMET4rilrbt-X43196
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
President Ford
Mrs. Clare Boothe Luce, Member of PFIAB
Brent Scowcroft, Assistant to the President
for National. Security Affairs
DATE AND TIME: Wednesday, February 25, 1976
11:32 a.m. - 12:15 p.m.
PLACE: The Oval Office
Luce: You must be happy [at the results of Tuesday's New Hampshire
primary].
The President: I am -verl'y happy. We did especially well. in the Keene area
where I campaigned.
Luce: It was very good from a psychological viewpoint.
The President: Yes. Reagan campaigned hard arkd hoped to win. How
are you?
Luce: Just fine.
The President: As you know, we have just announced an intelligence
reorganization. [15iscusses some of the details.]
I think Pike has hurt himself and I am interested to see the House
is investigating Daniel Schorr.
Luce: That is music to my ears. The press has arrogated to itself
the right of secrecy but no one else can have it.
The President: I think it is good, though, that the House is doing it.
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Luce: I think it [PFLAB] is a very good board and I am please to be
reappointed. I think the new additions will be helpful. I regret George
Anderson. going. But Leo Cherne will be a great Chairman.
There is one part of intelligence to which no attention is being
paid ? counterintelligence. It has been struck a real blow by these
investigations. Colby reorganized it a year ago which further confused
it. I think you should look into counterintelligence within the CIA. The
men who have been. let go have vast memories which have been lost.
The President: George Bush is trying to get read into the Agency.
He is spending full time getting up on things.
Luce: May I suggest that George talk to Angleton to hear his side of the
story. I have great respect for Colby but I think George should hear both
sides.
The President: What was the problem between them?
Luce: I only know second hand. Colby thought Angleton was so secretive
that Colby couldn.'t even find out what went on. Angleton thinks Colby
leaked the story to the press to get him. But the result is we lost the
top people in counterintelligence, who left with Angleton.
The Board wants to serve you. It can best do that if you maintain
contact and give them tasks.
The President: As you know, I met with the Board both as Vice President
and President. We will be making the announcement of the new board in
a week or so.
Luce: I am profoundly concerned about the condition of our foreign policy.
In 1972 there was a feeling that detente had a consensus -- perhaps because
it was defined the way each one wished it to. Now that has eroded and there
is a growing consensus against it. You said. recently, "peace through
strength." That is good, and the word "detente" should be scrapped.
I think the word is a disaster and should be dropped ? it is subject to
chides like "one-way street," etc.
The President: It probably isn't the best word and maybe it isn.'t good
for me in the campaign. But it makes me mad that they say because I am
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No Objection to Declassification in Full 2012/09/26: LOC-HAK-283-4-18-4
No Objection to Declassification in Full 2012/09/26: LOC-HAK-283-4-18-4
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for detente I am soft on the Soviets. When the chips are down, they
bug out. Where were they on Angola?
There are two groups -- one which says be nice to them and they'll
be nice to you. That doesn't work. The others say be tough to the Soviets
but cave when it comes to standing up to them. We are going to continue
being tough ? on Angola and anywhere else the Soviets move. I am
going to keep Congress on the spot.
Luce: Should we tell the people the Congress has slipped back into the
mood of the 30's? Then there was Roosevelt who understood power
politics and the threat. He couldn't change an isolationist Congress.
I think we are headed back that way. Maybe plain talk over the heads of
Congress of the dangers of isolationism which for us is always accompanied
by pacifism. Say we are going to negotiate but it is going to be balanced
or you will have no part of it. Don't use "detente."
The President: I think we have to show historically that we may be going
through the 30's again. If Britain and France had kept Italy out of
Ethiopia in 1935, there might have been no World War II. Angola might
be a latter day Ethiopia.
Luce: Lf the Soviets start to radicalize Rhodesia and South Africa, it
would be very tricky.
???
Henry is in grave trouble. He is being picked on by both camps
you describe. How can he get detente off his back? He is accused of
giving everything away, but also accused of being a hawk.
The President: I am curious about your comment on Henry's popularity.
The polls continuously reaffirm his popularity.
Luce: Henry is a celebrity as far as the public goes. Americans love
celebrities. Most of them don't know what foreign policy is about.
Where he is unpopular is, on one extreme, with the Zurnwalts who see
him as an appeaser. At the other extreme are the liberals who think he
hasn't tried hard enough with the Soviets and hasn't been hard enough on
Israel. Henry isn't popular with people who think about foreign policy.
The key is getting rid of "detente."
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