S.J. RES. 148 - NATIONAL COMMISSION ON ESPIONAGE AND SECURITY

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP87M01152R001001280014-0
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 14
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 8, 2010
• Sequence Number: 14
• Publication Date: June 25, 1985
• Content Type: MEMO

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MEMORANDUM FOR: General Counsel
FROM:
OLL 85-1743
25 June 1985
Chief, Legislation Division
Office of Legislative Liaison
SUBJECT: S.J. Res. 148 - National Commission
on Espionage and Security
STAT
1. Attached for your information is a copy of a joint
resolution introduced by Senator Byrd to create a "National
Commission on Espionage and Security". Also attached are the
Senator's remarks upon introduction of this resolution. This
resolution was considered as an amendment to the FY-1985
Supplemental Appropriations Bill (H.R. 2577), but was defeated
(50-48) by the Senate on 20 June 1985. A copy of the floor
debate concerning this resolution also is attached for your
information.
2. The resolution follows, obviously, in the wake of the
Walker espionage case. It would create a Commission to
investigate the vulnerability of the United States Government
to penetrations by hostile foreign governments. Membership of
the Commission will be drawn from both the Executive and
Legislative Branches. The Commission is vested with broad
subpoena power and the power to compel testimony under oath.
In addition, government agencies are required to supply the
Commission with all information necessary to the conduct of its
activities. The Commission would be required to report on its
findings and recommendations within 18 months.
3. While the resolution was narrowly defeated (50-48) by
the Senate, Senator Stevens specifically stated that this
"amendment would be back in another form". We have been in
touch with Gary Chase, SSCI, and will be providing him with
some talking points opposing this resolution for use on the
Hill. We obviously will monitor this proposed legislation very
closely and will keep you apprised of any further developments
in this regard.
STAT
Attachment
as stated
Distribution:
Original - Addressee STAT
1 - D/OLL + DD/OLL
.); - OIL Chrono
1 - LEG/Sublect + SWH/Sicmer
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I u ne 198,) CONGRESSIONAL KELUKll ? ,t."\ A 1 E
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?re impose& the future of the river ins--
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i,ysts On recent report 4ponicore
.!-;e US Marittme Administration r
mends that owners begin to scra
barges
Surplus barges have contributed
pression Farrell. of the Waterwa
i.ora organization. attributes th
woes of the industry to three
The buiichng of excess bar
boats in the late 19.70's an
ieacling to a rnassn'e surplus.
tion was spurred by chang
by the anticipation of h
frrain and coa: exports?in
to materialize.
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t-d U.S rratn expo
gran carried b tar
The world on, gi
the demand for
being transpone
by
011D-
idle
the de-
Opera-
economic
Or factors:
a.nd tos
early 1980s..
hat COT15:rJC
In tax /val.. and
Sc Increases in
reases that fai)ed
198t, aranst the
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That has cut down on
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on the nver
ORDER SR RECF-C-S TODAY
UNTIL -00 A.M. TOMORROW
Mr. Mc LURE. Mr. President, I ask
unanirno consent that, upon the
concliss n of the remarks of the dis-
tinguis ed Senator from West Virginia
andio the hour of 5:30 p.m having
arriv d. the Senate then stand in
r s until the hour of 11 a.m. on to-
MO OW
he PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
mt.) Is there objection? Without
objection, it is so ordered.
NATIONAL COMMISSION ON
ESPIONAGE AND SECURITY
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, the pub-
lished reports which have come to my
attention since the first arrest was
made in the Walker spy case have
made it clear to me that there is a
compelling need for the Congress to
take urgent and aggressive action with
respect to our Government's ability to
cope with Soviet espionage.
It has been reported that 4.3 rnillion
Americans have received security
clearances from our Government and
therefore have access to the most sen-
sitive Government information relat-
ing to our national defense. Every one
of these individuals is a potential
prime target for recruitment for the
hundreds of Soviet KGB agents who
roam our streets.
Defense Department is said to
have ori 1.500 civilian investigators
who this year are expected to conouct
220.000 sensitive clearance iniestiga-
tions of military and defense contrac-
tor personnel.
The Federal Bureau of Invest iga?
tion. which has the primary responsi-
bility for tracking Soviet espionage in
the United States, is said to be unable
to cope with the huge number of sus-
pected Soviet agents in this country.
The mountains of Government
paper marked "confidential," -secret,"
and -top secret" seem to grow ever
higher each day. and the entire cla_;si-
fication system is said to be held in
disrepute.
Assertions continue that the top
levels of our Government, including
the CIA Itself, may have been pene-
trated by the KGB. Others strongly
disagree. No one seems to know for
sure.
The Walker case is said to involve an
individual alleged to have been spying
for the Soviets for as long as 20 years,
and no one even suspected it.
This situation simply cannot be al-
lowed to continue. We must take irn?
mediate action to uncover the scope.
and magnitude of this problem and
then take strong and effective action
to correct it. We in the Congress
cannot authorize billions of dollars for
the most sensitive and sophisticated
defense and intelligence systerris, only
to learn that the details of those sys-
tems have been turned over to our ad-
versaries by employees of our own
Government.
I have therefore prepared legislation
which I ant introducing today to estab-
lish a National Commission on Espio-
nage arid Security to irnestigate this
problem. The Commission would be di?
rected to investigate?efforts which
may have been made by hostile for-
eign powers to penetrate our Govern-
ment?the adequacy of counterintelli-
gence investigations by the United
States to detect and protect against
such penetrations; and?the adequacy
and effectiveness of the classification
system, background security investiga-
tions, and the whole question of secu-
rity clearances. The Commission will
be authorized to hold hearings, issue
subpoenas, and have full and complete
access to whatever information it may
need to fulfill its task.
The Commission will be required to
report on its findings and recommen-
dations in 18 months.
The Commission that will be created
by this resolution will consist of eight
members, to be appointed as follows:
FOUT would be appointed by the Presi-
dent of the Uruted States, including
one former Secretary of Defense, one
former Director of Central Intelli-
gence, and one former special assistant
to the President for national security
affairs: one would be appointed by the
President of the Senator from the ma-
jority Members of the Senator upon
the recommendation of the majority
leader of the Senate; one would be ap-
pointed by the President of the Senate
from the minority Members of the
Senator upon the recommendation of
the minority leader of the Senate; one
to be appointed by the Speaker of the
House of Representatives from the
majority Members of the House; and
one to be appointed by the Speaker of
the House for the minority Members
of the House upon recommendation of
the minority leader of the House.
The members of the Commission
would select the chairman and the
vice chairman.
The Commission would be author-
ized to employ and fix the compensa-
tion of such persons or consultants as
it deems necessary and appropriate
subject to certain provisions of the leg-
islation. The Commission will be au?
thorize-d to hold hearings, take testi-
mons- and depositions under oath, and
do everything necessary and appropri-
ate which is authorized by law to
make the investigation and study spec.
ified,
The Commission would be author-
ized and directed to make a complete
investigation and study which would
reveal the full facts with respect to
the nature and extent of recent pene-
trations of the U.S. Government or ef-
forts to penetrate by hostile foreign
powers to obtain the information that
is described in the resolution. the
extent and the adequacy of efforts of
the United States to protect against
such penetrations: the adequacy and
effectiveness of the classification
system: background investigations con-
ducted for security clearances, systems
involving the issuance of clearannes.
security systems. counterintelligence
investigations counterespionage inv-
tigatioris, damage assessments, rele-
vant Pecteral laws, Executive orders,
directives and policies, investigative.
prosecutorial and expulsion policy,
treaties. and other international agree-
ments to which the United States SE a
signator. and such other related mat-
ters as the Commission deems neces-
sary In order to carry out Its responsi-
bility.
The Commission would have the
power to issue subpoenas requiring the
attendance of witnesses and testimony
of witnesses and the production of in-
formation relating to a matter under
Investigations by the Commission.
Mr. President, I talked with former
President Carter yesterday. and he
stressed the need for prompt action by
our Government in this subject area.
He felt that it was a good concept and
that we need to proceed. Be indicated
that he would be happy to appear and
testify as & witness should he be called
upon by the Commission. I tried to
reach President Nixon yesterday, but
he was out of the country. Today, he
is back in the country and I have
talked with him arid he felt that it was
time to move to protect our country
against those who would sell our coun-
try "dov.-n the river."
He made some helpful suggestions to
me arid. likewise, indicated his willing-
ness to appear as a witness before the
Commission, if asked to do so.
I also taiked on yesterday with
former Secretary of Defense Harold
Bross-n, who was in California but re-
turned last evening to the Nation's
Capital. He likewise joined in express-
ing support for the effort and is happy
to support and appear before the Com-
mission for testimony if the Commis-
sion should see fit to call upon him.
Mr. President, I have talked with
President Reagan earlier this after-
noon, and he indicated that he would
be happy to have a look at the resolu-
tion arid seemed to be supportive and.
in any event, very interested.
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S S.2t,4 CX)NGRESS1ONAL RECORD
Mr. President. I think P. you/el be
very worthwhile it former DireC-trifl Of
thr CIA were aske-dtc moor...! for the
purpows Of testoriony I ta:ked with
former CIA Director Adroiral Turner
yesterda:, . and he eioresiked strong
stiPPort for the Ides and likewise. as
have- the others with whom: I talked
Indicated s ready willing:lest to appear
before the Commuzior and s or t wit
the Cotnausr,:insc ws). should
the Comrr.assion see to to call on him_
I ban hot beer: able to talk 'with Other
forrric. Duet-Lori of the CIA. Mr
Clalb. Mr hieLrris and others. arid I
hate no yet beer, able to reach De.
Singer. I himorerd.y,
bti be sal- in Europe I believe and
toil be returning ic the Untied States
this evening or torioTrow. I have not
yer, had an oppori unto,. to talk to
former President Ford. but I ter-air-0y
hoof to dc
147 Presicen'. I hi Te or: carcr.'eted
S terePhorie- corer-ti:: witl. fc.irlarker
se-cur lY Ldrtsz.), bo'z. F7trzinf.L. He
said that the- whole secarro appa.-atin
is chit for ar. examination and it is
long overdue. He was Cuette cbt-htasza.,s-
tic about such a corturnioson
It PresIdeLt.. I hope that the ad?
rcumstraixin and LW Coilestglies CIED
both skins of the anie will he rapPort-
fve of the reso:ation that I wiI)
today. We are all ilD this together.
Both the executive and the legislative
tranches have much to contribute
toward examining the problem and
coming up with responsible and effec-
tive solutions This is a hips.rtisan ap-
proach which I am suggesting Co ciesJ
with a nonpartisan probiem
I am not going after anybody that I
can think of as I introduce this resolu-
tion. I arc not atterozing to blame one
administration or another, one party
or another. As I see d. our objective,
simply put, to find the holes in our
Nation's security fabric and to close
them for the future, With DO scape-
goats It is simply a Serious and turgid-
mental problems which goes to the
very heart of Lbe effective defense of
Our Nation
Mr. PresidentA saS unanimous con-
sent that I may have until 7 o'clock
today to introduc.e the reso/ution.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out ob;ec_tion. it is so ordered.
lifer BYRD. Mr, President. I Isis? ask
Unanimous consent that the resolution
be printed in the Rk.cos.r..
There being no objection the re_solti-
tic:: was ordered to be printed in the
RnonPr as follows.
Rns 14E
Acsol.ued b th4 Senate and Row eof Rep-
ntael..tailves of Litie ilaited $tates of AffierirG
in Congress asst-rntilect
That (a there is herebyestablished. a ri.
ticrna comr7tISSIDT which may be called ter
convenience of expressior, the National
Ccirrr.tssior. Lspionage and Seeurity. to
contnic
at investigation and study With re-
spect to the acitectiaci of countores4lionilge,
eounterintIligence and securitY
the Unite-cl States in the protection of vital
secret el., defense. (2) foreign pohn.Y.? and (3)
ifleA1gr( In! orrnetion of the U-nft. ed
SENATE
Igisaf) ogairot the efforts of hostile foreign
powers to obtain aucb toforroauon. as fur,
they described it section below
et - Toe Cocatrusivot created tr-Li rem'
luteon shall consist of elan: rrirtsera to be
appointed as follow-s
(I' nu, to be aPlocusted b) the Pres id:
of the United States Includlni one forgot(
Secretary of Defense. one former Inrector
Of Central Intelligence and ore former SPc
eta'. AwAstant to the Praselent for Piatione
Sen.: ret Aft rs
(3 One to be appomted Irs the President
of the Senate from the ink/orit) frgtmbert
th. Senate upon the reocestileeolszion of
the rhs..)174-1z:". leader sr the Stria:4.
(3. One to be appo:ruect bi the Prescient
of the Er--ate from tilt m;non;ty b!?2:7.1>tr.
of the Srnatt upon the recon-27-.en..ts*.ior, of
the rnmorr.e leader of the Sente
(4, One to be appointed t) trw ST,._?fiKer of
the }louse of Itepresentathes troy- the rot
}art y Members of the 11003t . and
(5, One i.e be ampoirrixe b) the Sbe-tiLer of
thf liz,us.1 of Representater trot tnf rr,
rrit:, Mt-rt.:pen: of trii baLi>or int re,
orrimLndat.:r. of tbt Itt of Oak
Tt,f- rnernbcr: of th,. sha'.
seleel a eharrrn s.r and a vice chair:nazi V a
candies in the aiercbersrot- of the COM1711.1-
bar: arIC: hot affect the author: of the re.
marling members to execute the host:sow
cif the CifniEtisstor, and &.ha. P I.U.Jed v. U.
sa.rctitikaiThe7 a the
to it are made.
() A ira)ority of the members. of the
Comerolmon shall constittrte a Quorum for
the transaction of bosireess. but the Corer
mission say efts a teaser treumbes as a
Worms tar the pic-pose of taking testimony
or deposindons,
ter To enable the Commissior to retake the
Investigation and study autho,?.1sed and di-
rected by this resolution the CornMISSIOn ta
authorized to employ- and fi.A the compensa-
tion of such persons at it deems riecesmary
and appropriate. sub,lect to the provierrons of
Settiot 12tel
Bac. I The Commissior is auihariroed to
hold hearings, take iesouncrny and depost?
bola WitiCier oatto and to do everYthint wee'
elawn ollx" arkiteropriate whichie tuttborined
by law to sake the ini.ea,igat.tor ari,d study
itfSed ISi subsectior. ta 0.1. Ile firs: sec-
tion.
Sac 3. Without &brit:it:rig it am irE3 the
authority conferred upor the Commissior
by the preceding section. the Cominission
authorised and &recited to make a complete
twvestigatiao and Much. which aril reveal
the lull factt with respect to
tat The nature &rad erten: of recent pene-
trations of. or efforts to penetrate. the
palled St-es Government by- hostile for-
eign powers. to obtair. the Information
scribed sec-,.,ion )(a
(b) The extent and adequa.,^ of of torte by
the Utit.ed State: to detect and protect.:
arttran foact penetrations
The adequacy arid effectiveriesF of
(I The els-tc'f motion syslen_
c2) Bi-round investigstionu conducted
for security clearances,
(3) 1%sterns invoh-ing the tssuanaes of
such clearances:
(4) Security systems:
451 Counterintelligence inv-estioationt
(6) Counterespionage mi
(7) Darr..age
egi Rriev ant Fecierai laws. executive
orders directives, and policies
Irirtugati ye, presecutorial and exp
lion policy, and
(10) Treaties and other international
agreernertts to w-hicr, the United Stater is a
iregrietor3
June .17,
tell Such other related trotter! a, thf
Camicustiton deems necessary pr order to
Carr, OW Pt! frfT,Jr..T.i1,,tr.
Su 4 Subreci only te other provis,on, of
this rescei.ution al) departmer,ts ageroies
and other comporients and Si; offic;st5 and
other einpLoyees of the United Suies Go,
ernmen: are author-zed and directed ter
fa; LoAtend fur and complete coi,pe?ratior
to the Corrirmsocer.
s)Lb ...firRie-ri43 reccrer ii.wstance ar the Cornrz-u
itr
(e) Provide such informs:kw and testyrno
rib, whether at hearing or by Internee or
deposition ti the Cor_orussior, maY rec?o'll
td, Provide 114-Vt.S.` Le ILL re'cord:.
documents and other matena)r as the Ono.
reo.oeso
Sr.C 5 tic. Thr Commis& cio o, f.2-.":-
ILEM of the Corarn.:ss:or. ,c,r
Ized by the Corrirrossioo. shal: trui? the
power to issue subpoenas rrowrins the a:
tendanee and testinanny of totriesoci arc
the production of trilorruatior re.tt.i to a
1171(if7 troesoittoo U. C(77 77 .?
5107. A SJE',-,Evr.f ens-. Trcu:*, 7
whom it a ettrected to pr-t.- su?,. in'. '
frIE11M. ai aro ttrh? btu SL"' p? ro-Ji o
tea:;! f_:":.:are-f-
the productior of such ericierit-e met b.- m-
oulted from any plare wtthuT, the 1111P-P4e: -
tot of the Untied Stau?s a: aro Pesi471-sted
piaceof tmervitu or hetriar A persor cc-
h-osc a sunhoens vs,ued inhoe, trr, sutt,...ee
ttor is threcietC ros:, f07 sheicn roc% t
to enlarge or &bonen the time of attendance
and testimony-. or may move to quasri or
modify a subpoena for the production of tio
formation tf tt h unreasorrable Or opiir.
save.
Is the ease of a stibpoeria issued for the
purpose of taking a depositiot wan teal ex-
amination, the person to be deposed may
make any motion permitted under rule 26
of the Pecieral Rules o! Civil Procedure.
(bX1) litcase of contumacy or refusal to
obey a subpoena issued to a person under
this section, a court of the United Stales
within the Poriadictior of which the person
fa directed to appear or produce triforrnation
or within the 'triadic-non of shier, the
person is found TeSiCis of tritTuat? bra&-
tins , upon opeolicatior- by the AtztorneT
General irettee
to such persor an cr-ck.7 re
cikiirtiar &rich Person, to appear before the
Commission. or before a Enerabtr of the
Commission_ or a member of the suf.! of the
Commivsion designating the Commissior. for
such purpose, there to gtre testimony or
produce informarior. relating to the matter
under tovsesticatiot. es recorded be the sub-
poena Any failure to obey ouch (order of the
court may be punished by the couri of a
oontempt thereof_
t2i The Commission Is an frgeacy of the
United States for the purpose of role
8leaX3) of the ?federal Rules of Cori. Pr-ore
dare.
Cc) Process of a court to shirr, apr,t,cation
may be made undec tht, seetiot may be
served tri a indica:, district where.-- the
mrson required to be served a icomo' Tr
sites, or transacts business
SEC. 6. A court of the United State_
the jurisdietion ire whier.. testirhor'., of a
person In custody is sought by the Corn.rais.
sion or within the Jurisdiction of which slut.
person is held in custody. may. upon aro],
cation by- the Attorney General. bisue a writ
? habees corpus ad tesrificcadtr, reot:
the custodian to produce suer. perse: Ns-fc.,re
the cxxnerussior. or before a eryernee:. of th,
Commission or a member of the staff of the
Commission designated by the Ccazarnissor,
for such purpose.
SEC. 7. The Commission is an agenr-r of
the United States for the purpos, of
of title IF of the United State: Cheii
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD?SENATE S8289
. thine 17, 195
Sac 8. (ai Process and papers Issued pur-
suant to this resolution may be served In
person. by registered or certified mail, by
? telegrarL or by s cops theN-of at
the residence or principal office or place of
business of the person required to be served
when service is by registered or certified
mail or by telegraph, the return post office
receipt or telegraph receipt therefor shall
be proof of service. Otherwise the verified
return by the individua making service. set-
ting forth the mariner of such service shall
be pi 0.Of Of service.
(b) A witness summoned pursuant to this
resolution shall be amid the same fees and
mileage as are paid witnesses in the courts
of the United States and a witness whose
17.05;:lor: is taker. and the person taking
the same shall severally be entitled to the
same If.es as are paid for like sen ices in the
courts of the United States
Sac 9 la The insestigative activities of
the Commission are civil or crunina la en-
forcersent activities for the purposes of sec-
tion 552ahs.7) of title 5. United States
Code exoept that senior. 552s, c)43 sisal)
apoiy after the terminanor, of the COM17:1S-
Sier.
The Co mtssior Is a CrO eminent au?
thonty. and an investigstion conducted by
the Commission is a law enforcement In-
quiry. for the purposes of the Reght to
nancia Privary Act of 1978 (12 U.S.C. 3401
et sec ). Any delay authorized by court order
in the notice required under that Act shall
not exceed the life of the Commission. in-
cluding any extension thereof. Notwith-
standing a delay authorized by court order,
if the Commission elects to publicly disclose
the information in hearings or otherwise, it
shall give notice required under the Right
to Financial Privacy Act a reasonable time
in advance of such disclosure.
Sac. 10. Conduct which, if directed against
a United States attorney, would violate sec-
tion 1111 or 1112 of title 18. United States
Code, shs11, if directed against a member of
the Commission, be subject to the same
punishments as are provided by such sec-
tions for such conduct.
Sac. 11. The functions of the President
under section 10(d) of the Federal Advisory
Committee Act (5 U.S.C. App. 10(d)), shall
be performed by the Chairman of the com-
mission
Sac. 12. (a) The Commission shall adopt
rules said procedures (1) to govern its pro-
ceedings: (2) to provide for the security of
records, documents, information, and other
materials in its custody and of its proceed-
ings: 3) to prevent unauthorized disclosure
of information and materials disclosed to it
in the course of its inquiry. (4) to provide
the right to counsel to all witnesses exam-
tned pursuant to subpoena.. arid (5) to
accord the full protection of all rights se-
cured and guaranteed by the Constitution
of the Ur:A.ed States.
tb No information III the possession of
the Corr.mission shall be disclosed by any
member or employee of the Consrnission to
any person who is not a member or employ-
ee of the Commission. except a.s inthorized
by the Commission and by law.
tcs The term -employee of the Commis-
sion" means a person (1) whose services
have been retained by the Commission, (2)
who has been specifically designated by the
Commission as authorized to have access to
information in the possession of the Com-
mission. and (3: who has agreed in smiting
arid under oath to be bound by the rules of
the Commission, the provisions of this reso-
lution. and other provisions of law relating
to the nondisclosure of information.
Sac. 13. The Commission shall make a
final report of the results of the investiga-
tion, together with its findings arid its see-
otnrnendations to the President arid to the
Congress, at the earliest possible date. but
no later than March 1. 188'7 The Commis-
sion may ass submit such Lritenm reports
as it considers appropriate After submission
of its final report. the Commission shall
have three calendar months to close Its af-
fairs, and on the expiration of such three
calendar months shall cease to exist
Sec: 14. There are authorized to be appro-
priated for the fiscal year ending September
30, 198E such S W711 as are necessary to carry
out the activities of the Commission
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President. if any
Senator seeks the floor. I will be glad
to relinquish it. This is my 75th
speech on the subject. "The United
States Senate" over a period of 5
years.
THE U.S. SENATE
CON'GRESSIONA.I, P.EPORM THE
GISL.ATIVE REORGA_NIZA-
T ON ACT OF 1945
M BYRD Mr. President, when we
think back to the nineteenth century
Senate,we can easily conjure up
images of senators who enjoyed suffi-
cient 1 isure to do their own research.
draft heir own legislation, and to
write 1 gthy.. speeches. Most members
had no other office space than their
desks irk the Senate chamber or in
their bo dinghouse quarters near the
Capitol tuildirig. Today, the sites of
many of t ose boardinghouses are cov-
ered with House and Senate office
buildings here members have quar-
ters that o y barely seem to accom-
modate the creasing requirements of
their dive constituencies. In the
middle of t e last century, members
who req staff assistance pur-
chased it out of their personal funds
during the us ally abbreviated legisla-
tive year.
After World
members' time
rapidly as imp
portat ion and co
the electorate
greater proximity.
ernment assumed
lives of everyday ci
Congress multipled.
gave way to the Or
the New Deal era o
gress demonstrated
ity to legislate with
and expertise that h
its course during the
complicated nineteenth
Congress had slight
dwell on matters of in
tion and support durir
sion and New Deal ye
however, many members
ing painfully aware of th
resentative bodies around
the hands of totalitari
Many recognized that a St
tive Congress was the best
Was I. demands on
d attention escalated
ved means of trans-
unication brought
d the elected into
As the national goy-
greater role in the
izens, pressures on
And as the 1920's
t Depression and
the 1930's, Con-
creasing inabil-
he deliberation
characterized
seemingly less
century.'
pportunita to
rnal orga.niza-
the Depres-
. By 1940,
were becom-
fate of rep-
he world at
regimes
ng, effec
rOteCtiOn
against executive tyranny, foreign and
domestic. Later that year, House
Speaker Sam Rayburn warned tha
the ability or our democracy to surviv
was directly related to the ability of
Congress to balance demands for ade-
qua discussion against demands for
pro pt and effective action. Rayburn
stre d the necessity of independent
"tec ical competence" as the founda-
tion a solid legislative program. "A
great ? national legislature cannot
safely ely on the technical assistance
and ad :ice which private interests are
willing provide."
Jerry Voorhis. a Democratic repre?
sentativ from California was an early
and pers tent critic of Congress' in-
ability a maintain a strong and co-
equal rol in the federal system. He
warned t at the future of constitu-
tional got rnrnent would be in jeop-
ardy unle Congress insisted on exer-
cising its traditional responsibilities
with a fo and vigor equal to that of
the Prar-k1 Roosevelt administra-
tion.'
Congress. 1941. was al-equipped to
accept the V rhis and Raynarri chal-
lenges. At t t time, of every seven
dollars It aut orized the federal gov-
ernment to s ca Congress spent only
one cent on If.' Its 3.200-member
staff was pred mmantly clerical arid
custodial with n t more than two hun-
dred persons w could be considered
legislative prof ionala Senators were
required t.o use heir office clerks as
the principal f of any committee
they chaired, thus ignoring profession-
s/ competence as he foundation for
committee staffing. This situation en-
couraged the tional practice of
creating additio committees as
sources of prestige, office space, and
extra staff for their a, airmen.
On the eve of Pe I Harbor, Con-
gress remained relu tant to supply
Itself with independe t sources of ex-
pertise. Librarian of ?tigress Archi-
in vain for in-
gislative Ref-.
ed his request
the Congress
ly research
tory and ec-
to that of
ornmi t tees"
and private
bald MacLeish argued
creased funding of his
erence Service. He just'
on the assumption that
had the right to "scho
and counsel in law, and h
onomics at least equal
people who come before
from the executive branch
interest groups.'
Strong opposition in th
Representatives killed_
hopes of revitalizing his un
and obscure reference sem
Senate. in June 1941, a s
awaited a measure introduced
ator A.B. "Happy" Chandler
Lucky. Chandler proposed t
Senate allow each member to h
"research expert" at a corn
salary. His proposal died
many senators apparently belie
would establish a cadre of "po
. assistants" who would eventually
- a position to compete for their j
The opposition had deep roots in
members' self-image. Congressm
feared the public would view the ap-
t propriation of tax dollars for staff ex-
e pests as an open confession of mem-
House of
acLeish's
erstaffed
. In the
an fate
by Sen-
f Ken-
t the
e one
titive
use
ed it
tics.'
In
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S 8492 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE June O. 1,985
commission. We cannot afford to con-
duct business as usual and just forget
the problem or hope that it will go
away.
Mr. President, I urge the adoption of
the amendment.
Mr. JOHNSTON. Mr. President, I
rise to support this amendment. I wish
to emphasize the bipartisan--certainly
nonpartisan?nature of this amend-
ment. As one of the prime cosponsors,
it never entered my head that it would
be anything but that?that is, a group
that could give us the best of informa-
tion in this very sensitive area, very
timely area of great concern to our
country.
I hope that the commission would,
In fact, look into the adequacy of our
activities in any field of terrorism. I
think we have, as we have all found
out, very few intelligence assets in the
Middle East in general, and in Leba-
non in particular. Whether there is
anything that we can do about that
from a grand policy standpoint I think
would be a very appropriate and pro-
ductive area for this commission to
look into, as well as that which the
distinguished minority leader dis-
cussed; that is, the question of security -
clearances.
An idea that the distinguished occu-
pant of the Chair had and which I
supported in the Appropriations Com-
mittee?that is, the use of the lie de-
tector to test security clearances?is
also an area which I think could be ap-
propriately looked at by this commis-
sion. I am told that the tie detector is
a very, very useful tool in determining
the reliability?not just the truthful-
ness but the reliability?of those with
security clearances. I also share the
view that it is a very sensitive area. We
,want to be sure that there are ade-
quate safeguards in the use of that lie
detector so that it may not be used as
an article of political revenge or that
It be misused or any of those things. I
think that could appropriately be
looked into by this commission.
The idea of a commission as opposed
to the use of one of our standing com-
mittees, I think, is also very good and
very timely. We have in this country
ex-directors of the CIA and the De-
fense Intelligence Agency whose
names are well-known throughout this
country, whose reputations-are above
reproach, and who come from both po-
litical parties.
It seems to me that their appoint-
ment to this commission, should they
be willing to serve, would be a national
asset of great value, drawing upon
their judgment and their experience.
It seems to me they could give this
commission a broadness of view and a
depth of expertise that is not likely to
be equaled by any mechanism other
than this kind of bipartisan commis-
sion.
So, Mr. President, I strongly support
this legislation and hope it will be ap-
proved.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Chair, in his capacity as the Senator
from Alaska, suggests the absence of a
quorum.
The clerk will call the roll.
The bill clerk proceeded to call the
roll.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I ask
unanimous consent that the order for
the quorum call be rescinded.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out objection, It is so ordered.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I ask
unanimous consent that I may be au-
thorized to modify the amendment in
two places, one being with respect to
paragraph (b)(1) on page I of the
amendment which I have before me,
the other one being the paragraph
that provides for the funding of the
commission.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is
there an objection? Without objection,
It is so ordered.
Will the Senator send the modifica-
tion to the desk?
Mr. BYRD. Yes. Let me say, Mr.
President. that paragraph (b)(1) of the
amendment which I hold in my hand,
which is the amendment that is avail-
able and on each desk, presently reads
as follows?and this is with respect to
the appointment by the President of
the United States of a four-member
commission:
Pour to be appointed by the President of
the United States, including one former Set-
retary of Defense, one former Director of
Central Intelligence, and one former Special
Assistant to the President for National Se-
curity Affairs.
Mr. President, I do modify, having
been given consent from the Senate,
that paragraph by placing a period fol-
lowing the words "United States" and
striking out the remaining words in
that sentence, so that phrase, which
now would require the President to in-
clude among his four appointees one
former Secretary of Defense, one
former Director of Central Intelli-
gence, and one former Special Assist-
ant to the President for National Se-
curity Affairs?that would be stricken
and the remaining words would be
these: 'Tour to be appointed by the
President of the United States."
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator has that right under the
unanimous consent previously granted
to him.
Mr. BYRD. I make that modifica-
tion, Mr. President, because the distin-
guished present occupant of the chair,
the distinguished Senator from Alaska
[Mr. STEVENS] stated on the floor a
moment ago his concern about that
language. I can understand his feeling
that way. The distinguished majority
leader also has expressed his concern
to me about that particular language.
I can understand the concern. I can
only say that I hope the President
would carefully consider appointing a
former Secretary of Defense, a former
Director of Central Intelligence, and a
former Special Assistant to the Presi-
dent for National Security Affairs, but
I have now deleted that language from
the amendment as a requirement.
The other modification, Mr. Presi-
dent, I will make in a moment after
conversation with the distinguished
chairman of the Committee, Mr. HAT-
FIELD, and the distinguished ranking
member, Mr. JOHNSTON. But for now I
suggest the absence of a quorum
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk proceeded to
call the roll.
Mr. DURENBERGER. Mr. Presi-
dent, I ask unanimous consent that
the order for the quorum call be re-
scinded.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. DURENBERGER. Mr. Presi-
dent. I rise in opposition to the amend-
ment by my good friend and colleague,
the Democratic leader. And I am not
in the unfortunate position of rising as
a cOrnrnittee chairman and I am going
to make a statement that says we do
all these things; we do not always do
them well. But we, in effect, have
these things in place. My great col-
league, who has been here so much
longer than I, has heard this; but I
trust that he will listen to at least a
part of it, and perhaps there is in the
structure of his amendment some
room for accommodating to the con-
cerns that I will-express. I do not know
at this time whether there is such
room, but I trust that he may find
that kind of room. ,
Our colleague from West Virginia
has -been an ex officio member of the
Senate Select Committee on Intelli-
gence since its inception. He had a
substantial role to -play personally in
the creation of the Committee on In-
telligence, and I trust that, therefore,
he will be especially sensitive to some
of the comments I will make about the
impact that this Commission can have
on the objectives he is trying to
achieve.
I thought perhaps we would find
some support from the administration
in making this case. I find, in the
statement I just referred to of the ma-
jority leader, as being the administra-
tion's position on commissions, that
the administration opposes the statu-
tory establishment as unnecessary; they
oppose it on the ground that there are
existing mechanisms* they oppose it
on the theory that the executive
branch has primary responsibility and
on the theory of constant cooperation.
There may be some of that in my
statement as well, but I think we need
to go just a little further.
Before my colleagues vote on this
issue, let me give them just a little in-
formation and perhaps education on
the role that they play, as Members of
this body, in resolving some of the
problems of security and espionage.
Mr. President, I sympathize with
my good friend from West Virginia,
who has long been an. ex officio
member of the Select Committee on
Intelligence. He has been a steadfast
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June 20, 1.985 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE S 8493
supporter of U.S. intelligence and I
greatly admire him for it.
I oppose my good friend- amend-
ment. however, for I fear that his pro-
posal would retard, rather than ad-
vance, the adoption of improved coun-
terintelligence and security practices. I
sin confident, moreover, that the exec-
utive branch and the Senate Select
Committee on Intelligence can better
accomplish what the minority leader
seeks to achieve than will a National
Commission.
The state of American counterintel-
ligence and information security is a
matter of great concern to us all. The
security of our country may not
depend entirely upon this, but betray-
als and intelligence penetrations are a
sure way to undo years of devoted and
costly efforts by loyal Americans.
We have good reasons to be con.
cerned regarding these matters. The
Walker family spy ring alone is
enough to warrant our attention.
From what we read in the papers, it
may have gone on for two decades; it
involved two generations, as well as
friends and other relatives; it involved
chief warrant officers, the cream of
the crop of Navy enlisted men, who
have made this country's security at
sea their careers; and it may have com-
promised vital information on U.S.
weapons systems, communications,
and operational patterns.
Other recent cases are equally both-
ersome. In Los Angeles, we are wit-
nessing the first trial of an FBI agent
for espionage in our history. A man in
New York has been indicted on
charges of spying while he worked for
the CIA. And news stories assert that
the Soviet Union bugged U.S. Embassy
typewriters in Moscow for years,
giving them access to a steady stream
of important information.
The Select Committee on Intelli-
gence is deeply -disturbed by these
events. We are determined -to learn the
causes of the current situation and to
help bring about major improvements
?lin it.
'','The Select Committee on intelli-
gence and its House counterpart have
given high priority to counterintelli-
gence and security problems ever since
the creation of the committees in
1976. Under our first chairman, Sena-
tor-'DANIEL INOUYE of Hawaii, the FBI
counterintelligence budget was includ-
ed for the first time in the overall Na-
tional Foreign Intelligence Program.
Later we passed the Foreign Intelli-
gence Surveillance Act, which gave our
counterintelligence agencies a secure
and constitutional means of wiretap-
ping suspected spies. This has proved
to be an invaluable arm in the arsenal
of security.
An Intelligence Committee study
several years ago also led to passage of
the Classified Information Procedures
Act, which limits the impact of gray-
mail defenses that threaten the re-
lease of more classified information in
spy cases. The increase in espionage
prosecutions in recent years is due
partly to greater protection for classi-
fied information that this act has pro-
vided As Assistant Attorney General
Stephen S. Trott told the Washington
Post the " tgraymair Act gives the
Government the capacity to surface
and prosecute (spies) without com-
promising national security or letting
defense lawyers spew secrets all over
the place ' "
Under Chairman Goldwater, the
committee took the lead in calling for
Increased resources for FBI. CIA, and
Defense Department counterintelli-
gence operations. We also passed the
Intelligence Identities Protection Act
to stop one especially dangerous form
of intelligence compromise.
This year, as part of the Intelligence
Authorization Act for fiscal year 1986,
the committee recommended legisla-
tion to address the Soviet intelligence
threat that was later passed by the
Senate in the form of amendments to
the Department of State authoriza-
tion. And this year, as in every other
year, we have used the budget authori-
zation process to address the perform-
of U.S. counterintelligence ele-
ments in the various agencies.
Earlier this year, the select commit-
tee began planning a broad review of
U.S. counterintelligence and security
programs. On June 11, 1985, the com-
mittee agreed to begin a comprehen-
sive review of the Soviet intelligence
threat and U.S. counterintelligence
and security programs. This review is
to be done within the context of the
committee's continuing oversight re-
sponsibilities and will include an ex-
amination of the implications for na-
tional security growing out of the
Walker case and others. Topics to be
addressed include:
Changes in the nature and extent of
-Soviet espionage operations both
within the United States and against
U.S. installations and interests over-
seas:
The reasons behind the record
number of espionage cases in the last
year;
How effectively U.S. counterintelli-
gence agencies have utilized the in-
creased resources made available to
them by the Congress; and
What needs to be done to improve
security so that truly sensitive infor-
mation and operations are better pro-
tected.
The committee intends to examine
all aspects of the problem, including
the classification system the person-
nel security system and the communi-
cations security system, as well as
computer and other forms of technical
and operational security. We are in
the process of holding a series of
closed hearings and briefings. We also
look forward to cooperating with the
executive branch and benefitting from
the internal reviews underway in the
Defense Department and other agen-
cies.
We have instructed our staff to co-
ordinate with other interested Senate
committees. In particular, the select
committee expects to follow up on the
recommendations of Senators NUNS
and Boni of the Permanent Subcom-
mittee on Investigations, which has
completed an investigation of short-
comings in the Government's Securi-
ty Clearance Program.
The aim of the committee is to pre-
pare a full report on the adequacy of
U.S. counterintelligence and security
programs and the improvements
needed to protect the national security
in these fields. As indicated in letters
that Vice Chairman L.T.AllY and I have
recently sent, we solicit the sugges-
tions and views of all Members of the
Senate as we begin this task.
A National Commission on Security
and Espionage, Mr. President, is more
likely to retard progress on these
issues than it is to further it. If we
truly want to improve security prac-
tices, we must convince departments
and agencies to change entrenched
ways of doing things, That is how
simple it is. No commission is going to
get the bureaucracy of this country to
change its habits. It is difficult enough
for us in the Senate and the people in
the House to take advantage of situa-
tions like the Walker case to do some
of the things we are now able to get
them to do. The people who must do
that are the leaders of those agencies,
not a group of outsiders, no matter
how distinguished.
What will happen if we establish a
National Commission? The first thing
is that people in the bureaucracy who
are resistant to .change will say that
nothing can be done until after the
Commission completes its work and
issues its report. So any chance for
early improvement will be quashed.
That is a record which has been rep-
licated for many, many commissions.
The bureaucracy will tell you they
cannot do anything to comply with
your desires until the Commission
completes its work and issues its
report.
The consequence of that is that all
of the work that we need to do in 1985
that we need to implement In 198'1 will
all be postponed at least after
this commission makes its report in
1987.
A second likely consequence is that
the issues of security and counterintel-
ligence will become politicized. First
there will be the usual jousting over
the membership arid staff of the Com-
mission. Then there will be inevitable
conflicts between the Commission and
executive branch personnel who will
resist the thought of disclosing our
-deepest counterintelligence secrets to
an outside body. And then there will
be watering down of conclusions, as
Members with diverse views and politi-
cal constituencies try to arrive at com-
promise recommendations.
Mr. President, I submit to my col-
leagues that this country needs better
-security, better counterintelligence,
and better counterespionage. But
rather than piecing together a noliti-
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S-S493 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE Junc
cally balanced group of outsiders, we
must encourage our top policymakers
to bite the bullet themselves and take
needed action. Rathcr than disciosing
counterintelligence secrets to more
outsiders. we should use the institu-
tions already in place to handle such
Information?including our own Select
Committee on Intelligence.
Rather than settling for the wa-
tered-down 3-year-old recommenda-
tions which will eventually come- out
of this Commission, we should demand
a hard-nosed examination of these
issues that leads to real improvements
in our counterintelligence and security
posture.
I am confident, Mr. President, that
both the executive branch and we are
currently sufficiently energized to deal
with these issues speedily and forth-
rightly. The White House is clearly as
concerned as we are regarding the
need for improvement, and the Select
Committee on Intelligence has re-
ceived assurances of close cooperation
from counterintelligence officials and
top policymakers.
I know what motivates my good
friend from West Virginia. I am think-
ing of it as I am reading the state-
ment, that as soon as John Walker
and his family are off the front pages,
the issue may well also leave the top
priority of our concerns in this Senate.
That may very well be, from his expe-
rience, one of the reasons that our col-
league feels strongly about the need to
continue to focus the attention of the
country on the issue.
I must say, however, Mr. President,
while I agree with that theory, it is
also the responsibility of this body to
do something about it and I fear great-
ly that turning it over to a commis-
sion, postponing any work on counter-
espionage and counterintelligence
policy for 3 years, just is not the way
to make sure this job gets done.
It is our responsibility here to force
these changes on the administration,
not the responsibility of an outside
agency.
Mr. President, I suggest the absence
of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OKFICER (Mr.
EvAns). The clerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk proceeded to
call-the roll.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President., I ask
-unallimous consent that the order for
the quorum call be rescinded.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out objection, it is so ordered.
AMENDMENT NO. 968 AS FURTHER MODIFIED
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I had in-
dicated earlier my desire to modify the
.amendment in respect to the last pro-
vision .in the amendment. I modify
what is now an open-ended funding
_provision, so 55 to specify that the
.funding be limited to $900,000.
I have discussed this with the distin-
guished manager and the distin-
guished ranking minority manager,
and it is their feeling that it should
not be seen as an open-ended funding
mechanism, and I think we have come
to the conclusion that a $900.000 cap
would be a reasonable modification.
I so modify my am.ndment.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out objection, the amendment is modi-
The modified amendment is as fol-
lows:
(b) The Commission created by this reso-
lution shall consist of eight members, to be
appointed as follows:
(I) Pour to be appointed by the President
of the United States.
(2) One to be appointed by the President
of the Senate from the majority Members
of the Senate, upon the recommendation of
the majority leader of the Senate;
(3) One to be appointed by the President
of the Senate from the minority Members
of the Senate upon the recommendation of
the minority leader of the Senate;
(4) One to be appointed by the Speaker of
the House of Representatives from the ma-
jority Members of the House: and
(5) One to be appointed by the Speaker of
the House of Representatives from the mi-
nority Members of the House upon the rec-
ommendation of the minority leader of the
House.
(c) The members of the Commission shall
select a chairman and a vice chairman. Va-
cancies in the membership of the Comnlis-
sion shall not affect the authority of the re-
maining members to execute the functions
of the Commission and shall be filled in the
same manner as the original appointments
to it are made.
(d) A majority of the members of the
Commission shall constitute a quorum for
the transaction of business, but the Com-
mission may affix a lesser number as a
quorum for the purpose of taking testimony
or depositions.
(e) To enable the Commission to make the
Investigation and study authorized and di-
rected by this resolution, the Commission is
authorized to employ and ftx the compensa-
tion of such persons as it deems necessary
and appropriate, subject to the provisions of
Section 12(c) below.
SECTION 2. The Commission is authorized
to hold hearings. take testimony and depo-
sitions, under oath, and to do everything
necessary and appropriate which is author-
ized by law to make the investigation and
study specified in subsection (a) of the first
section.
SECTION 3. Without abridging in any way
the authority conferred upon the Commis-
sion by the preceding section. the Commis-
sion is authorized and directed to make a
complete investigation and study which will
reveal the full facts with respect to:
(a) The nature and extent of recent pene-
trations of, or efforts to penetrate, the
United States Government by hostile for-
eign powers to obtain the information de-
scribed in section 1(a);
(b) The extent and adequacy of efforts by
the United States to detect and protect
against such penetrations;
tel The adequacy and effectiveness of:
(I) The classification system;
(2) Background investigations conducted
for security clearances;
(3) Systems involving the issuance of such
clearances;
14) Security systems;
(5) Counterintelligence investigations;
(6) Counterespionage investigations;
(7) Damage assessments;
(8) Relevant Federal laws, executive
orders, directives, and policies;
(9) Investigative, prosecutorial and expul-
sion policy; and
(10) Treaties and other ini.ernationai
agreements to which the United States is a
signatory.
(di Such other related matters
Commission deems necessary in order to
carry out its responsibilities.
SECTION 4. Subject only to other provi-
sions of this resolution, all departments.
agencies, and other components. and all of-
ficials and other employees, of the United
States Government are authorized and di-
rected to:
(a) Extend full and complete cooperation
to the Commission:
(b) Render such assistance as the Commis-
sion may request:
(e) Provide such information and testimo-
ny, whether at hearings or by interview or
deposition, as the Commission may request:
(d ) Provide access to all records, writings.
documents and other materials as the Com-
mission may request.
SECTION 5. (a) The Commission, or any
member of the Commission when so author-
ized by the Commission, shall have the
power to issue subpoenas requiring the at-
tendance and testimony of witnesses and
the production of information relating to a
matter under investigation by the Commis-
sion. A subpoena may require the person to
whom it is directed to produce such infor-
mation at any time before such person is to
testify. Such attendance of witnesses and
the production of such evidence may be re-
quired from any place within the jurisdic-
tion of the United States at any designated
place of interview or hearing. A person to
whom a subpoena issued under this subsec-
tion is directed may for cause shown move
to enlarge or shorten the time of attendance
and testimony, or may move to quash or
modify a subpoena for the production of in-
formation if it is unreasonable or oppres-
sive. In the case of a subpoena issued for the
purpose of taking a deposition upon oral ex-
amination, the person to be deposed may
snake any motion permitted under rule 26(c)
of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
(b)(1) In vase of contumacy or refusal to
obey a subpoena issued to a person under
this section, a court of the United States
within the jurisdiction of which the person
Is directed to appear or produce informa-
tion, or within the jurisdiction of which the
person is found, resides or transacts busi-
ness, may upon application by the Attorney
General. issue to such person an order re-
quiring such person to appear before the
Commission, or before a member of the
Commission, or a member of the staff of the
Commission designated by the Commission
for such purpose, there to give testimony or
produce information relating to the matter
under investigation, as required by the sub-
poena. Any failure to obey such order of the
court may be punished by the court as a
contempt thereof.
(2) The Commission is an agency of the
United States for the purpose of rule
81(a)(3) of the Federal Rules of Civil Proce-
dure.
(c) Process of a court to which application
may be made under this section may be
served in a judicial district wherein the
person required to be served is found, re-
-sides, or transacts business.
Szcrtosi 6. A court of the United States
within the jurisdiction in which testimony
of a person held in custody is sought by the
Commission or within the jurisdiction of
which such person is held in custody, may,
upon application by the Attorney General,
issue a writ of habeas corpus ad testifican-
dum requiring the custodian to produce
such person before the commission, or
before a member of the Commission or a
member of the staff of the Commission des-
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June 20, 1985 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE
ignated by the Commission for such pur-
pose.
SECTION 7. The. Commission is an agency
of I hi United States for the purport of part
V of title 18 of the United States Cod(
SECTION 8. (a) Process and papers issued
pursuant to this resolution may be served in
person, by registered or certified mail, by
telegraph, or by leaving a copy thereof at
the residence or principal office or place of
business of the person required to be served.
When service is by registered or certified
mail, or by telegraph, the return post office
receipt or telegraph receipt therefor shall be
proof of service. Otherwise, the verified
return by the individual making service, set.
ting forth the manner of such service shall
be proof of service.
(b) A witness summoned pursuant to this
resolution shall be paid the same fees and
mileage as are paid witnesses in the courts
of the United States, and a witness whose
deposition Is taken and the person taking
the same shall severally be entitled to the
same fees as are paid for like services in the
courts of the United States.
SEc?rion 9. (a) The investigative activities
of the Commission are civil or criminal law
enforcement activities for the purposes of
section 552a(b)(7) of title 5. United States
Code, except that section 552a(c)(3) shall
apply after the termination of the Commis-
sion.
(b) The Commission is a Government au-
thority, and an investigation conducted by
the Commission is a lau enforcement in-
quiry, for the purposes of the Right to Fi-
nancial Privacy Act of 1978 (12 U.S.C. 3401
et seq.). Any delay authorized by court order
In the notice required under that Act shall
not exceed the life of the Commission, in-
cluding any extension thereof. Notwith-
standing a delay authorized by court order,
if the Commission elects to publicly disclose
the information in hearings or otherwise, it
shall give notice required under the Right
to Financial Privacy Act a reasonable time
In advance of such disclosure.
SscrioN 10. Conduct, which if directed
against a United States attorney would vio-
late section 111 or 1114 of title 18, United
States Code, shall, if directed against a
member of the Commission be subject to
the same punishments as are provided by
such sections for such conduct.
SEcnoi: 11. The functions of the Presi-
dent under section 10(d) of the Federal Ad-
visory Committee Act (5 U.S.C. App. 10(d))
shall be performed by the Chairman of the
Commission.
-Sscrion 12. The Commission shall adopt
rules and procedures (I) to govern its pro-
ceedings; (2) to provide for the security of
records, documents, information, and other
'materials in its custody and of its proceed-
ings: (3) to prevent unauthorized disclosure
of information and materials disclosed to it
in the course of its inquiry; (4) to provide
the right to counsel to all witnesses exam-
ined pursuant to subpoena; and (5) to
accord the full protection of all rights se-
cured and guaranteed by the Constitution
of the United States.
(b) No information in the possession of
the Commission shall be disclosed by any
member or employee of the Commission to
any person who is not a member or employ-
ee of the Commission, except as authorized
by the Commission and by law.
cc) The term "employee of the Commis-
sion- means a person (1) whose services
have been retained by the Commission, (2)
who has been specifically designated by the
Commission as authorized to have access to
information in the possession of the Com-
mission. and (3) who has agreed in writing
and under oath to be bound by the rules of
the Commission, the provisions of this reso-
lution, and other provisions of law relating
to the nondisclosure of information.
SECTION 13. The Commission shall make a
final report of the results of the investigs-
Lion, together with its findings and Its rec-
ommendations to the President and to the
Congress, at the earliest possible date, but
no later than March 1, 1987. The Commis-
sion may also submit such Interim reports
as it considers appropriate. After submission
of its final report. the Commission shall
have three calendar months to close its af-
fairs, and on the expiration of such three
calendar months shall cease to exist.
Secriort 14. There is authorized to be ap-
propriated and is appropriated for the re-
mainder of the fiscal year ending September
30, 1985, and the fiscal year ending Septem-
ber 30. 1986. 8900.000.00.
The names of Mr. Bsucus and Mr.
LAUTENBERG were added as cosponsors
of the amendment (No. 268) as further
modified.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I suggest
the absence of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk proceeded to
call the roll.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I ask
unanimous consent that the order for
the quorum call be rescinded.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I greatly
respect the position as expressed by
the distinguished chairman of the
Committee on Intelligence, Mr.
DURENBERGER.
Let me say that I do not see this
commission, if and when it is estab-
lished, as being something that would
take away from the Intelligence Com-
mittee its right to proceed with what-
ever Investigations it wishes to make
-and to offer whatever recommenda-
tions on national security it may wish
to make to Congress.
I see this.problem as a national need
now, and I think it is an extremely se-
rious need. It seems to me that the In-
telligence Committee always has a tre-
mendous burden of workload?all that
it can deal with, with the many prob-
lems that may be related or unrelated
to this subject area demanding that
committee's attention.
It seems to me that we need a com-
mission that can put its full time, its
Xotal effort, its total strength into the
study and investigation of this serious
problem.
I have tremendous respect for the
Senate Committee on Intelligence. I
have a tremendous respect for the
chairman and ranking member of the
Senate Committee on Intelligence. I
would want it understood that, in my
judgment, the amendment that I have
presented Should not in any way imply
a lack of confidence in the Senate In-
telligence Committee.
But in this situation, I feel that the
problem is so great and so immediate,
that there needs to be a commission
which can give its full time to this par-
-ticular massive problem.
As far as I am concerned, I would
recommend to the President pro tem-
pore of the Senate that Mr. LEAHY.
S 5-193
the ranking member of the Intelli-
gence Committee of the Senate, be the
Senate minority's member. That could
be done very easily.
There is no suggestion here that the
Senate Intelligence Committee is not
doing its work and not doing it proper-
ly. I simply feel that, with this on-
rushing flood of alarming revelations
that we are seeing almost daily with
respect to the commission of treason,
at least the appearance thereof for the
moment, a full-time Commission ought
to be temporarily established.
Also, Mr. President, I understand
that the administration is opposed to
these amendments I see on the letter-
head of this memorandum which 1
hold in my hand, these words, "State-
ment of Administration's Policy,"
dated June 20, "With respect to Com-
mittee on Espionage and National Se-
curity. Byrd amendment." I will read
the following paragraph, which is
short:
The administration opposes the statutory
establishment of a National Commission on
Espionage and Security as unnecessary.
There are existing mechanisms for dealing
with this problem in the executive branch
and in the Congress. The President and the ex-
ecutive branch have primary responsibility
in this area. This administration fully in-
tends to cooperate with the Congress In ad-
-dressing the Questions of espionage and its
threat to national security.
- Mr. President, again, I think that
-this problem is so immediate, so mas-
sive, and so threatening to our country
that we ought to move ahead with a
commission that can spend its full
time in developing recommendations
for the Congress.
I have already indicated that my
conversations with former Presidents,
former Secretaries of Defense, former
Directors of the CIA, and former rui-
Lions) security advisors, resulted in a
unanimous feeling that we ought to
move in this direction and also a unan-
imous expression of the willingness on
the part of those Individuals with
whom I talked to appear before the
commission at any time, if asked, to
provide advice and counsel to the com-
mission.
So I would hope, Mr. President, that
the distinguished Senator, Mr. DuREN-
RVIGER, would not feel that this
amendment is a reflection on the
Senate Intelligence Committee. Far be
it: it is just the opposite.
Mr. DURENBERGER. Will the?Sen-
ator yield?
Mr. BYRD. I am glad to yield.
Mr. DURENBERGER. Mr. Presi-
dent, let me respond briefly to that. I
appreciate the sensitivity of the Sena-
tor from West Virginia to both where
the chairman may come from on the
issue and the importance of Intelli-
gence oversight in this body. I also
very much appreciate his deep concern
for the measures that need to be taken
and I suppose the public commitment
that needs to be built under some of
these measures.
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S 8496 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE
But the point] tried to make in my
st-atement was not to reflect so much a
sensitivity on ray part as chairman of
the committee, or on the part of the
committee itself, as to reflect the reali-
ties that any of us who have been
members of that committee (or any
length of time have to address with
regard to what I will call the bureauc-
racy of the intelligence community.
If. hi fact, the problem that is at-
tempted to be addressed by this com-
mission is espionage, if that problem is
and immediate problem, as our col-
league from West Virginia says that it
is, if it is a massive problem, that is,
that it is covering a lot of media in the
security sense, that it poses a large
threat, if you will, to the conduct of
national security policy, and if it is, as
he says, threatening, then the solu-
tions to the problem must come imme-
diately, they must be on a massive
scale and they must threaten the espi-
onage by the Soviet Union directed
against this country.
That is precisely why the committee
has been building a record within the
bureaucracy that I talked about earli-
er to address this problem. It probably
would have been a lot larger if it had
not been for the leadership of BARRY
GOLDWATER over the last 4 years, and
two Members of This body from the
other side of the aisle in the previous 4
years.
We are engaged in what I would con-
sider a massive effort within the com-
mittee to take on the bureaucracy and
we happen to be doing it with the help
of the administration. I mean, the
leadership in the administration un-
derstands the problems much as we
do.
What I fear, Mr. President, is not
that this commission will not come up
with a set of brilliant recommenda-
tions. I have talked to these same lead-
ers. I talked to the experts. I have
talked to Bobby Inman and all the rest
of these people who are now on the
outside. They have said the same
Thing to me as they have said to the
Democratic leader, "Please, this Is a
problem we need to deal with." I took
that message very seriously. The com-
mittee is taking that seriously.
The committee has charted a course
to come up with some answers to this
problem within the course of this
year, not within the course of an 18-
month period of time that expires
somewhere out in early 1987, the end
resifit of which is then you turn over
results to the bureaucracy for them to
digest and chew up and defend and
come back.
My point is, simply, I do not think
we have any disagreement on the
need_ The question is whether or not
that need can be addressed. If it is an
immediate problem, a massive problem
and a threatening problem, then can
Ike get it done in an immediate way
and in a massive way that is genuinely
threatening to the Soviet Union by
bringing all these experts into the
process that is already underway in
this body?and hopefully it will be on
the House side as well?to get some so-
lutions to this problem in Ulf near
term, not in 1987, not in 1988?
If it is publicity we want, we will be
more public in a part of this investiga-
tion. We always intended to do that
anyway. So if that is the function of
The commission, fine. But I must again
reiterate we do not have any disagree-
ment about what we are tryng to ac-
complish. The difference is those of us
who oppose this commission want it
done as soon as possible, and not post-
pone the result to some period of time.
We also are sensitive to the fact that
many of you know the bureaucracy
will shut down on this issue the
minute the Commission is created.
When we go in the Intelligence Com-
mittee to try to pound on them on the
espionage, and try to pound them on
counterintelligence, I know what they
are going to say. They are going to say
I am sorry, Senator, but you decided
there is going to be a big commission
with all of these former Secretaries of
State working on this. we are not
going to cooperate with you. We will
help the Commission, and in IS
months we will tell you what we ought
to do. That is the reaction of the bu-
reaucracy whether it Is the IRS, Corn-
znerc.e Department, State Department,
or the intelligence community.
Mr. STEVENS. Will the Senator
yield?
Mr. DURENBERGE:R. Yes.
Mr. STEVENS. Would not the Sena-
tor agree, though, that the problem
right now is that we have investiga-
tions in the executive branch, we have
Investigations in the House, and we
have investigations in the Senate, but
there is no process legally to hotwire
this so we can get going, get the total
engines of the Government, going to
see what we can do to stop the damage
that we are suffering as a result of
this espionage, and to see what we can
do to tighten up our security proce-
dures?
The Senator from Minnesota can do
everything he says, and the legislation
still resulting from Ids effort would
have to go over to the House, the
House would then hold hearings, and
their deliberations would be subject to
the same criticism from downtown
that my colleague mentioned. I am not
talking about the administration. I am
talking about the bureaucracy.
The idea of a rifleshot commission is
not new. Is not this the way we han-
dled problems in the Social Security
system?by establishing the Social Se-
curity Commission? We have done it in
other situations where we identified
serious national problems. I do not
know of another national problem
that reaches the scope, in terms of the
cost to the taxpayer or the loss to the
security of the United States, the
recent espionage that, we have suf-
fered. It is not just the Walker ease. It
is cases that have been going on since
the Falcon and the Snowman, since all
of the rest of the cases that the Sena-
June 20. 1,9-;
tor knows about. Hut we constantly
have this bickering between the two
Houses, and the bureaucracy wi!hin
tlic administration whether it is
Democratic or Republican.
I think it is time, as I said before, to
hotwire this whole thing, put together
a commission made up of persons who
have previously been cleared with the
stature and the capability to address
this problem. We are not enlarging the
clearance process here?and put some
people to thinking what can this coun-
try do to stop this onslaught by the
Russians on our secrets? This last loss.
if I understand it right, has cost the
taxpayers billions of dollars. We will
now have to duplicate a system that
has been literally stolen from us by
our own people, and sold for a pittance
to the Russians.
I have joined with the distinguished
minority leader because, as I have
tried to demonstrate here in some of
the bills I have introduced, nothing
has shocked rue more in the 17 years I
have been here than the briefing that
we recently had on the Walker case. If
the distinguished Senator from Min-
nesota wants to protect the jurisdic-
tion of his committee, I respect him as
I respect the distinguished chairman
of the Governmental Affairs Commit-
tee, and the other committees that are
involved. But I do not believe the for-
mation of such a commission to be an
attack on the committee system or on
the administration. Rather, I think it
is an attack on the worst problem this
country faces.
The Soviets now have taken secret
after secret from us?secret informa-
tion on systems that has cost us
untold billions to develop. Some of
them they have bought. I think it is
time that we looked at This sieve that
we call the security isystem of the
United States?and the only way to do
It is with a blue ribbon commission of
this kind.
Mr. DURENBERGER. I acknowl-
edge the existence of the question. I
started my first talk here a little while
ago by eschewing the notion that I
was standing up as chairman of the
committee, and I felt uncomfortable
doing that. There Is a former chair-
man of this committee on the floor
who is more capable than I to speak,
and eventually he may on this issue.
Our colleague from Alaska brought
up the Social Security Commission.
That was not resolved by a commis-
sion. That was resolved back here
some time in January 1983 by the Sen-
ator from New York and the Senator
from Kansas saying we cannot let this
Commission destroy the Social Securi-
ty System. We have to come to a com-
promise. So it was done right here by
two Senators. That is what happened
to that Commission. That is about as
simple as I can be to get to the heart,
of this issue.
It is a matter of taking on the things
the Senator from Alaska talked about
immediately. We are not conducting a
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June ..)0. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE S 8497
superin v tig a t ion. This is a study of a
problem krieu existed We are rais--
to tie levee of public conscious-
eeeItit ainly edininistrauve core
sciousness We have been learning
things-- in the last couple of weeks
.about the problems within this be-
reatieracy that we did not fully swore-
eiate existed. But. finally, people are
tuirUflg out in one part of the bureauc-
racy very honestly saying. because the
doors are elsoed. It is not the public
speaking inside, but for the first time
the have had the opportunity over
this billion dollar loss to come in and
In earls other about where some
of the problems are in between the bu-
mf aticraries. 3 do not know that that
discussion is goingg to take place in
some' highfalutin blue ribbon commis-
stern the same way it takes place inside
this process that is responsible for an
outcome. It is for that reason that I
believe it is necessary for us to -use the
existing process, use the opportunity
of. the sensitivity to the loss to force
on this administration the change in
their policy. and to provide them with
the resources to effect that change.
Mr_ ROTH addressed the Chair.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Serest OT from Delaware.
Mr. ROTH. Mr. President, I rise in
opposition to the .ameralment. I rise in
opposition because I do not believe
that it is appropriate to attempt to
create a special CenliniSSiOti for the
purposes outlined in this amendment.
agree with the distinguished chair-
man of the Intelligence Committee
that -our Intelligence Committee. of
which I am -a member, is aeldreasing ?
the .aerious problems?beiag faced by
this Nation in seourity matters.! am
not of the school that the best ap-
proach to solving some of these imper-
taial problems lies In always creating ,a
"sew oommissioa. We must address the
espionage problem promptly. but I
suspect the creation of s new commis-
sion will only delay action rather than
expedite it. t will take time to form
the committee. So bring together he
stall necessary lo support it, and I
think we are in danger of
the issue in the -effort to loran a com-
mission.
Let me say that, if a commission
were going to be treated, in my opin-
ion, ft 'would only be proper to give the
matter more condderation than Call be
given to the matter this afternoon. Im-
portant decisions would have to be
made as to its constitution, its author-
ity, and its legislative -jurisdiction. For
example it is my .understanding?al-
though .1 have nol had the opportuni-
ty to carelully study the Aroposal?
that the legislation before us would,
subject only -to Other provisions of this
resolution, authorize and direct all de-
partments, .agencies, other conspo-
nents, other officials, and employees
to extend lull and complete coopera-
tion to the commission; isriwide such
information and testimony, whether
at bearings or by interview or deposi-
tion, as the commission may require:
-provide access to all reoords, writings.
documents>. and other materials as the
commission may request.
This is an extremely broad mandate..
It would mean that all the other Laws
on the books. including the right of
privacy. which I have heard so many
Members on both sides of the aisle say
At is important to protect. would -go
astray.
It may be that we want to give that
broad authority, if we were to create a
commission. But I think it is worthy of
a little consideration and study before
we do so.
It is my feeling that if there is a
sense that a commission should be cre-
ated, 11 ought to be done through our
regular process and referred, with a
time limit if nec.esssry, to the appro-
priate committees so :that we could
frame the kind of commission that
would get the kind of job we all want
done.
But. again. I raise the question as to
whether such a commiesion is neces-
sary at this juncture.
Sometime back we created the Intel-
ligence Committees in both the House
and the Senate for The purpose of
oversight on intelligence matters. You
can say what you want to say, but If
you 'create a new commission,, you are
ere-sting duplication: you are supplant-
ing the duly organized committees of
this Congress. I Think that rather
than strengthening or helping such
committees 'to discharge their respon-
sibilfty. we are only weakening them.
I would point out that there was a
recent study made by the distin-
guished Venter IDT Strategic -and
International studies, 'examining The
need for -governmental, legislative-ex-
ecutive reform. It points out that
These commissions can be valuable, bid it
must be recognized that the convening of bi-
partisan non/missions in legistath,e-execo-
Live relations is an extraordirian? -step for
handling extraordinary hones or circum-
stances. Their use :Means that the -reputar
procedures of governance have not proved
sufficient in some *may_ There may be soca-
dons on which such 'commissions Are the
way practical .atternative, given the serious-
ness of issues. their 'warms', 'and the
fittrengtn with which opposing views are
held?with opposing advocates
the stars to verb the issues' resolution_
But then it goes on to say.
tit the same time; however, the risk -wises
that the bipartisan commission will -come be
he seen as a panacea ?a means for evading
responsibility within either Congress or the
executive branch. If that happens, the
sytem Will begin progressively to atrophy.
and the basic principle of accountability will
be increasingly violated to the detriment of
the entire povernment. Thus the use of
Mese. tormeinsion.% inst be waning and
highly lireurnserabed. General =aides are
needed if their use is not to be abused. and
if thes- are to be a last and not a first, resort
in developing legislative strategies.
SO, Mr. President, A think it is criti-
cally important that we give our Intel-
/*ewe Committee the opportunity to
continue on ,the course tlpota which lit
already alas embarked. 1.like the mi-
nority leader, have great confidence
both in the chairman and vice chair-
man of the Senate Intelligence. Com-
mittee. I think that the Intelligence
Committee should be charged with
proceeding with this investigation. If
at any time ft is telt that -there is a
need for a special commission, then I
think ft should be carefully crafted?
carefully crated so that it does not
became politicized. While time -is of
The essence, ft is more important that
whatever we do be well done and meet
the challenge rather than lust appear
to be creating another commission to
'handle the hard problem.
I agree as to the seriousness DT the.
problem, as to the need to examine
The entire matter. I would point out
that both the Intelligence Committee
and the Permanent Subcommittee' on
Investigations, of which I am chair-
man, and Senator Nome the ranking
member, have been making careful in-
vestigations into these areae.
I would urge the Senate to reject
this amendment and to charge the In-
telligente Committee, -and other com-
mittees which have any jurisdiction
within this area, to proceed with a
'careful examination of the -issues. not
only because it is important from the
point of view of security, but from the
standpoint of strengthening the corn-
Inittee process.
Mr. OOLD'WATER addressed the
Chair.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Senator from Arizona..
-Mr. -GOLDWATER. Mr. President, I
rise to Depose this simen.dment. Ido so
With some experience. I served 8 years
on the Senate Intelligence Committee,
I years as chairman.
_Mr. President. I have to agree com-
pletely with what my friend from
Delaware said about commissions. Any
careful thought developed after a
study .of the history of this Congress
over any period-of time, If you care to
examine it, will show that the great
mistakes that have been made in this
body have been :nude 4357 ealnInissions
or agencies that have been appointed
by the Congress.
I -do not know why it is but through-
out my adult life every thee the coun-
try develops some kind of a problem
that the legislature has been elected
to solve, the legislature 'undertook to
aPooint some agency to solve the prob-
lem, an agency without any responsi-
bility to anybody.
Here we hates 0o:omission suggest-
ed by a very -caoable man, for whom I
have great respect. but we do not
attach to it any particular responsitail-
I would like to say that -after many.
many years of ?experience in the intel-
ligence field, going back many years, it
Lakes a long time to learn intelligence.
I would say that the members of the
Intelligence Committee begin to he
whte to Amderstand intelligence after
shoot 2 gears of service.
I served B years on that committee.
mid I have to admit there are still
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.S 8498 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE June 20, 1986
many, many things in intelligence that
I would like to learn.
What is our problem?
The Soviets have no problem in
Washington obtaining intelligence. We
have the Library of Congress. All you
have to do is go to the Library of Con-
gress?now it is much easier, you just
sit down and punch buttons on a com-
puter?and out comes all of the techni-
cal information you want to know.
Magazine after magazine after maga-
zine published in this country, pub-
lished in countries all over the world,
make available to anybody with pa-
tience the entire technical details of
anything that we manufacture. That
is one of our major problems we have
here.
One of the major problems is we
really have no penalties for espionage.
I think the last people who were exe-
cuted in this country were the Rosen-
bergs and that has been 30 or 35 years
ago, or maybe longer than that.
It is impossible, after you detect a
person who has stolen secrets from
our country, who acted as spies, to do
much about it.
We had the case, I recall, when I was
serving with the Intelligence Commit-
tee, and I will not name the particular
device, where information was dis-
closed by a member of the intelligence
family. He was discharged from his job
and that is all that happened to him.
Suppose that man had been execut-
ed? I think that is what they are enti-
tled to, and I do not think there
should be much question about it.
A lot of people do not like the death
penalty. I would rather see a man shot
than have him stealing the secrets of
my country and jeopardizing the free-
doms not only of myself but my
family.
Money has entered into this. Before
the developments disclosed in the
Walker case, normally, a man or
woman would make available to our
enemies intelligence because they did
not like us and they liked the other
country better. Now we have a new en-
ticement. It is called money. Where
the Soviets and other enemies used to
get this information for nothing, now
a few hundred' thousand dollars will
accomplish the job.
How do you overcome that, Mr.
President? What will the Commission
answer b6 to that? I have no idea. I
know that the Intelligence Committee
is looking into that.
Another problem that anybody is
going to be faced with when they get
into this area is the number of clear-
ances that we have for top secret and
code-word, even. I think it is some-
thing like 4 million.
I know that my friend from Dela-
ware, who sits on the Intelligence
Committee?I will not say he becomes
amused, but he probably has a great
question pop up in his mind when we
say, "Well, we will clear the room" and
nobody walks out. Here is a bunch of
nice young People, probably just out
of high school, who have just come to
work for the Government, cleared for
code-word, cleared for top secret.
I recall trying to get one of the
founders of the CIA clearance, top
secret clearance. It took 6 months. It
takes for a new employee of my office,
if I want to get one cleared, almost a
telephone call will do it.
I am happy to yield to my friend
from Delaware.
Mr. ROTH. Mr. President, I just
want to make one quick bbservation. I
have heard several times that we have
used commissions, for example, in the
case of Social Security and other mat-
ters. Let me point out, there is a very
Important difference bet ween the
Social Security situation and the one
we face today. One of the purposes of
creating a comrniasion on Social Secu-
rity was to develop a political consen-
sus and bipartisan support for reform.
It was felt that that purpose could be
accomplished only by developing a bi-
partisan group that would work to-
gether to formulate the recommenda-
tions that were necessary to make that
system financially sound.
I do not think we need any consen-
sus today. I think we already have a
consensus that we must protect our in-
telligence information. Today we are
trying to find out what has gone
wrong and what needs to be done to
correct it. I am Sure that everyone on
this floor, be they Republicans or
Democrats, will support measures to
protect national security. So we al-
ready have that consensus.
But let our fact-finding groups, such
as our Intelligence Committee, pro-
ceed to determine what those steps
should be. Then I think Congress and
the Senate will promptly act.
Mr. GOLDWATeat. Mr. President I
could not agree more with my friend
from Delaware. Again, I think he has
brought up?well, I know I can get a
lot of argument on this point, but I
have to mention it: Did the Social Se-
curity Commiesion really solve the
problem? I do not think so. I think
Social Security is in God-awful shape.
So if we want to get intelligence in a
little worse shape, we might use the
same approach.
We have a very large intelligence
family. This is something very few
people in this country know: We have
19 different intelligence-gathering
agencies in Washington. They all have
these problems. Every one of them has
the problem of a leak here and a leak
there.
The Senator from Delaware is as
aware as I am of the constant leaking
from the Intelligence Committee, as
desperately as we try to prevent it.
We used to have hearings and if I
wanted to find out what happened in a
code-word-clearance meeting, I would
Just read the New York Times the
next morning. And one of those guys
winds up as Assistant Secretary of
State. I guess maybe we ought to ap-
point a few more like that; we would
get some real leaks.
Mr. President, I have one more com-
ment. because I know of the great in-
terest in this subject. I am pointing
out things that I have learned on the
Intelligence Committee and I have
learned without being on it. We al-
lowed the Soviet Embassy to build
their new building on one of the high-
est points in Washington. Sometime, if
you want a real thrill, get in a helicop-
ter and fly over that place. They have
more antennae on the roof of that em-
bassy than Marconi ever thought of.
They can spy, they can listen in on
any telephone conversation in this
community. Twelve hundred people?I
think that is about the number?in
the Soviet Embassy.
Do you know how many we have in
Russia, Mr. President? I am not sure,
but it is not much over 200. We have a
law on the books that says no country
can have more representatives in their
embassy than we have in their country
and we have begged and begged the
administrative branch of this Govern-
ment to chase all the Soviets out of
this town and San Francisco and lins
Angeles and Chicago and Boston and
everyplace else where the thousands
of them are?not just listening in on
telephone conversations, but stealing
secrets of our Government.
I think there are a lot of remedies
available. U we get the administrative
branch to act as they should, I think
we could clear that Soviet Embassy
out in a very big hurry. If we want to
put in some counterelectronic devices
around that Embassy, there is no rule
that we cannot do that. I live only 2
blocks from it and I can give them a
lot of trouble with my radio equip-
ment. I might do it some night.
Well, Mr. President, I oppose this
amendment, with all due respect to my
very good friend from West Virginia. I
just do not think it is needed. I think
the Intelligence Committee has the
full capability of coming up with
whatever answers are not already in
existence. I would like to see them
given the chance. Let us not create an-
other commission that will just fumble
and tumble and rumble along without
doing anything.
Mr. President, I yield the floor.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, will the
distinguished Senator from Delaware
yield the floor?
Mr. ROTH. Yes; Mr. President.
Mr. BYRD. I should like to respond
very briefly to his statement.
Incidentally, I say to the distin-
guished Senator from Arizona /Mr.
GoeowArint), that nobody is more sup-
portive than I of execution of an
American who commits treason, but
the Supreme Court has ruled that a
mandatory death sentence is not con-
stitutional. At the present time, as /
recall, the Court has, as one of the op-
tions, a term of years, and I believe it
also has the option of a life sentence.
But we all know that those so-called
"life sentences" in many instances can
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elltrie 20, 198,5 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE
mean a few years in prison. and then
there can be a parole.
The 'other day, when the Depart-
ment of Defense authorization bill was
before this body. I offered an amend-
ment that was cosponsored by the dis-
tinguished Senator 1rom South Caroli-
na LW. TortniliOnel that would pro-
vide an additional option?that of
mandatory. We nentence without
parole. So that would be an option in
The future if the other body agrees If
She court will not choose the option of
execution. It at least has the option.
provided by my amendment to the
DOD authorization bill, of salting the
traitor away for the rest of his life be-
hind bars. If a judge chooses that op-
tion, Then the wretched 'Benedict
Arnold" would be imprisoned for life
'with no hope of parole.
I hope the House will accept my
amendment 'on that score. We ran
expect the. Soviets to have persons in
this country who will spy on us. but
'what we should not have to expect is
an American citizen who forgets his
-heritage, forgets his patriotism, and
*ells his country for a few measly dol-
lars. In that case, if be can not be exe-
cuted, then at least let him have the
rest of his life behind bars where he
will not be able to -enjoy the fistful of
money that he may have been given
tor betraying his country.
sow, hir. President, the +distin-
guished senior Senator from Delaware
had this to say, and I think I an quot-
ing him correctly. id I am not. be cer-
tainly may correct me. 1. believe he
said that it was "'proper to give the
idea more consideration than can be
*yen here on the Boor,'" and he went
an to =ay that if there is steed for
sudh a tramnission it should be done
through the replier process and re-
ferred to the proper committee'
4 think It is 'appropriate to argue
that this matter or other matter
which may come etie on the floor by
way of an amendment should be Tint
referred to the appropriate committee
tar consideration. I isiks mit find Inuit
with that at all. 1, htswever, this& that
it would be well ler the distingliighed
Senator from Delaware to be remind-
ed. in the event be does net remember,
of a letter which I wrote to him in
1984. 1 had introduced legtiori
which would require the Reconfirma-
tion of Department beads In the event
a President were to be elected to a
second term and were to wish that the
same Department beads who bad
served in his INTIViCalS stiministrstion
would continue in the same caencity
during a second administration. The
+legislation was to be gempeetive bi
mature and would mot have a.pphed to
the current adrerinistridion. Before
confirming such Department beads for
-a second term. the Senate mould take
a new look at a Department head and
hold him to account forsome of his ac-
-tions or inactions in the previous term.
And so I wrote to the distinguished
Senator from Delaware and axed that
he schedule hearings on this measure.
The letter is dated May 2, 1984, and it
is addressed to the distinguished chair-
man of the Committee on Governmen-
tal Affairs. /Jere is 'what I said:
Dina Ms_ CIRAERWM.i alts writing to re-
'quest that you schedule hearings in the
near Suture on two pieces of legislation
Which I recently introduced, S..2446 and S.
'2604. 'Both bills involve a long overdue
effort to improve the Senate confirmation
-process.
The 'Senate Donfirmation Act of 1984,-
AL The& view mit id my continuing concern
that the Senate has not been getting wee-
euate information upon which to fulfill ite
"advice and consent" 1 unction under Article
Il of the U.S. Constitution. On many occa-
sions, we have seen Situations where new in-
formation concerning a nominee far high
government office came to light only after
the nomination bad been received by the
Semite and are confirmation hearings had
begun. On other occasions, the Senate was
unaware of such data meal -even after the
nominee had actually been confirmed.
It seems to me that these kinds of prob-
lems evidence a fundamental -flaw in the
confirmation process, attributable in part to
an Incompleteness in the background inves-
tigations conducted by the Executive
Branch and, thereafter, to the incomplete-
ness of the information provided to the ap-
propriate Senate committees.
'My legislation. S. 2445. attempts to ad-
dress this problem, first, by placing the su-
pervision of background investigations in an
Independent office of government, namely
the Office of iGiovernment Ethics. Once
these nieneignendu are completed, the bill
would also reeuire that the Senate be pro-
vided with the kill and complete results of
those inquiries. In addition, my prqposal
would require, for the first time, the pro-
mulgation el standards for the 'conduct of
these background investigations, so as to
Insure that all relevant inforraation is ascer-
tained concerning a prospective nominee's
fitness and Qualifications for office.
'have .also Included in Ss 2446 a so-called
"fail-safe- -provision to cover /Ovations
where, despite our be efforts. 'some previ-
ously analawlin information tater maws to
light even after a nominee has been con-
firmed. This provision would require that if
a president is reelected to a second term,
the 20 top officials of his administration
would have to -be reconfirmed if they are to
continue in office fluting a preifidenTs
miceriet enin. betted way, any wetly discov-
ered Inferindtion could provide a mew basis
mem which the Senate mould diode/owe Its
Artiste flrmrnslbliitiea,
The Second bill I have introduced, S. 2604,
Is identical to the reconfirmation provision
,of -S. 3446. It results from any conclusion
'that a second confirmation process for .the
20 top officials of government during a
president's second term is so essential -that
St is deserving of special attention by the
Senate on its own merits, separate and apart
trom the 'other provisions of S. 2446, which
deal with the overall confirmation process. I
feel very strongly that members of the Cabi-
net and a small number of -other _high-level
officers of government should be willing to
webritit theft performances in office to -re-
-sewed Article II scrutiny if they ere to
remain in the mine posts during a second
presidential term, Under the esent
system, only a president and ;eke president
are accountable to the electorate, and we
should again .fulfill our "advice and -con-
sent" responsibilities so as to express the
'people's will concerning the '70 UV officers
-ef -a two-term saministration.
TOW Oommittee has played a -significant
role in insuring the effectiveness of our gov-
S 8499
eminent institutions. I sin well aware of
your efforts to improve the Ethics In Goo
ernment Act during the hest Congress and to
rests: some of the auggestiont- which were
Made to weaken that lave A hope you will
agree that the proposals which are em-
bodied in my legislation are desert-log of at-
tention and 'consideration, and that you will
be willing to process these bills during the
current Session.
Your assistance would be appreciated.
Sincerely.
Rosner C. Sven.
Well. time went on and I received no
response, and so I wrote a second
letter on May 21, and addressed It to
the distinguished Senator and it said
'this:
Ditalt Ma. CHATRItaw: In my letter of May
2, I requested that hearings be scheduled on
two pieces of legislation -which I had recent-
ly introduced, S. 3446 and S. 2604, both in-
volving an effort to lantirowe the Senate con-
firmation process.
I am still of the view that the enactment of
these measures is essential during the cur-
rent session. and I would appreciate your
letting me know whether you will be able to
process these bills in your 'Committee this
year.
Sincerely,
RoSERT C Brat,
In a -postscript, I said:
Bill. I hope you can schedule a hearing
soon. 'Thank you.
That was May 21.
On June 18, 1984, I received the fol-
lowing letter from the distinguished
'Senator.
Thank you for contacting sue -concerning
the two bills you have introduced on the
'Senate confirmation process. I apologize for
the -delay In getting back to you.
I -must let you In all honesty That I bare
serious problems with your legislation. I 'un-
derstand your objectives. but I believe That
ethers, of caller political pgrty, may well
tuelexis opportunity for ixilitical purposes. I
strongly agree with 3,loyd Cutter that we
have very serious problems in making got -
enament work, and I believe that if this leg-
briallon is implemented it could well have a
illeMing effect on the departmenta.
For example, 'S. 3604 Asada reguire The
lop twenty 'officials *of an Ateridnistration to
be mconfirmed be the Senate if they were
to remain In efface alluring a President's
second Serra. Somme the Incumbent nomi-
nee would have a record of service in office
during his first term. I lam concerned re-
confirmation hearing could become nothing
more than a forum to debate the past poli-
cies of an Administration. By prolonging the
'process, a few individuals could, for purely
political purposes, effectively hamstring de-
partments for a substantial period of time
by calling Into question whether the chiefs
of those organizations will remain in place.
The result could well be government paraly-
sis at the very-time that a President has inst
neoeived a aew mandate.
'I think that committees have a responsi-
bility to scretinize carefully the qualifica-
tions-and moral background ef -any nominee
'lot high office. Further, the appropriate
committee Mould continue to monitor the
conduct of individuals, and, of course, bold
bearings 'anytime on their activities.
Mr. President, 1 -can respect, do re-
spect, and did respect the argument
that was made by the distinguished
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S 8500 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE June 20, 1,965
chairman in his response to my two
letters and my oral and personal re-
quest of him here on the floor. I have
no quarrel at all with the position he
took in opposition to the legislation.
But the last paragragh is a paragraph
I want the Senator to recall.
In short. I would think your legislation
would have a deleterious effect on the func-
tioning of the Executive Branch, and. thus,
I do not plan to hold hearings on the legisla-
tion. Thanks again for letting me know of
your serious concerns over this issue, and I
again apologize for being so tardy in re-
wponding.
Sincerely,
WILLIAM V. ROM, JR.
The Senator certainly had a right to
his viewpoint in opposition to the leg-
islation I introduced. But I offered the
legislation. It was referred to his com-
mittee. I wrote to the distinguished
Senator, urging him to give that legis-
lation a hearing. I wrote a second
time. I talked with him on the floor,
right here in the aisle, about the legis-
lation and indicated that I hoped a
hearing would be held on my bills.
Finally, I get a letter back which not
only expresses to me his opposition?
which was fine; that is all right; I do
not agree with every other Senator,
nor does every other Senator agree
with me many times?but also, he
spurned my request for the hearing on
the legislation which had been intro-
duced and duly referred to his commit-
tee.
Mr. President, I have been around
the Senate 27 years and in the House 6
years. Never do I remember any other
situation in which a chairman of a
committee refused a colleague the re-
spect and the opportunity to which I
think a colleague is entitled?to have a
hearing on his or her legislation if re-
quested.
Today, the distinguished chairman
suggests that this is the kind of matter
that should be referred to a commit-
tee. I introduced a. resolution a few
days ago which would provide for such
a commission as does the amendment I
offer today, except for a couple of
modifications I have made on the
floor, at the request of the distin-
guished chairman of the Appropria-
tions Committee, Mr. HATFIELD, and
the distinguished Senator from Alaska
(Mr. STzvrits). That resolution was re-
ferred to the distinguished chairman's
committee.
Now the distinguished chairman
comes to the floor and says that this
commission is a matter, if we are going
to create it, that should be done in the
usual way. It should be referred to a
committee. How can I have any hope
that the committee, under the chair-
manship of the very distinguished
Senator?in light of my previous expe-
rience?will hold hearings on this leg-
islation? In other words, if he is op-
posed to it, he would not even conduct
a hearing on it.
Mr. President, with all due respect
to my beloved colleague from Dela-
ware, I think this could be perceived
as a rather arrogant way for a chair-
man to treat an important piece of leg-
islation that is duly referred to his
committee under the rules?legislation
concerning which a colleague writes to
him twice and personally, in a conver-
sation, urges hearings; and the com-
mittee chairman turns down his col-
league's request to have a hearing on
It.
I am sorry to have to bring this to
the attention of the Senate: but if that
is the way the distinguished chairman
is going to handle my requests for
hearings on my bills, the only recourse
I have is to offer the subject matter as
an amendment to a vehicle which
comes up on the floor. I say to the dis-
tinguished chairman that- .I have been
watching for a vehicle since that time
to which I might offer the amendment
dealing with the reconfirmation proc-
ess. If I cannot get a hearing in his
committee, then I will let the Senate
be the judge, and I will get my hearing
on this floor.
I am sorry to have to bring to the at-
tention of the chairman this corre-
spondence between the two of us, but I
have no alternative, inasmuch as he
makes this argument today against
the pending amendment: Send it to
the committee. Let us have a hearing.
Let the committee deal with it.
I tried that. once and got nowhere.
I must say that never, as chairman
of a committee, would I deny a col-
league who requested a hearing in
committee.
Mr. ROTH. Mr. President, will the
Senator yield?
Mr. BYRD. Yes, I am happy to yield.
I should like to hear the distinguished
Senator respond to what I have said,
based on the letters he wrote to me.
Mr. ROTH. First, let me say, of
course?wad I think My colleague will
agree?that I always try to be coopera-
tive, to accommodate my colleagues. I
have to say, respectfully, that it has
been experience that I do not always
get a hearing on every bill I introduce,
-and I understand that. -I understand
that committees' resources are limited
and that priorities must be set. In this
case, I would point out that we had no
other request, including anjone on
that committee that I am aware of,
from either -political side for such a
hearing.
But in any event, let me assure the
distinguished minority leader that if
the proposition he has placed before
the Senate today were to be referred
to the committee, I would be pleased
to hold such hearings.
I think this matter is a matter of
great impc,rtance, and I am not sug-
gesting that his other bill was not, but
point out that we have something I
think like 300 bills referred to the
committee each year, and we do not
hold hearings on each one of them but
attempt to respond normally to hear-
ing requests from within the commit-
tee itself. Perhaps that was a mistake
In this instance. In any event I apolo-
gize. It was not intended in any way to
be discourteous to the minority leader
for whom I have the greatest respect.
I do say and do offer that if the dis
tinguished minority leader would like
to hold hearings on his important pro-
posal to create a commission on espio-
nage, I would be happy to proceed
with such hearings at an early date
and do so.
As I said in my earlier statement I
think that, if we were to go this direc-
tion, we should hold careful hearings
and carefully craft our recommenda-
tions to meet the situation at hand.
So, I say to the distinguished senior
Senator from West Virginia, if he
cares to hold hearings on this subject,
he has my personal assurance and I
am sure that of the distinguished mi-
nority ranking member of the commit-
tee Tom EAGLETON, to hold such hear-
ings at the earliest possible date.
I make that in the form of a ques-
tion.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I thank
the distinguished Senator from Dela-
ware. I thank him for his apology. It
takes a big man to apologize, and I re-
spect him for that. Therefore, so far
as I am concerned, that matter is now
behind us.
Mr. President. I am ready to vote.
Mr. WILSON. Mr. President, I
wonder if I might address a question
to my distinguished friend, the minori-
-ty leader.
Mr. BYRD. I am happy to try to
-answer the question.
Mr. WILSON. The question is this:
Having listened with interest to the
Senator's stated desire for a hearing
on his measure and understanding and
sympathizing with that, I have a con-
cern that if this commission, which he
proposes, is created and if it is to be in
business for an 18-month period
before making its report, some may
argue that any. effort to address Indi-
vidual problems relating to espionage
and security, for example, measures
brought before the Intelligence -Com-
mittee, measures brought before 'the
Armed Services Committee, might find
that there is some bar to their being
heard, precisely because of the exist-
ence of such a commission.
It would disturb me greatly and I
suspect many of my colleagues if this
-turned out to be the case, because it
may very well be that the proposals
will be introduced certainly within the
I8-month period and In fact I know of
some that are proposed for hearing
now, one in a subcommittee which I
chair. Others I suspect will be.
Would the Senator, if this measure
were adopted, feel that the existence
of such a commission should stand as
a reason not to go -forward with pro-
posals offered by his colleagues in the
form of bills that are referred to other
committees?
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I think
the resolution speaks for itself and I
think that the appropriate arguments
have been made on the floor in sup-
port of it.
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'June 20. 1.985 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? SENATE S 8501
I see no reason to delay action on
this matter. The country cries out for
an effort to find the answer to this dif-
ficult and dangerous problem that
confronts the Nation. I would hope
that the Senate will adopt the amend-
ment so that it might go to conference
with the other body,, and as I say I am
ready to cast a vote on It.
Mr. WILSON. Mr. President, with
all due respect, I do not think my
friend from West Virginia really an-
swered my question. So I will simply
state as a concern, and I think a very
legitimate one, the fear that were this
measure enacted, were this commis-
sion created, there would thereafter be
many on this floor and many off this
floor who would say we dare not go
forward with any other proposal be-
cause, of course, the definitive work is
being done by the commission and we
must await the result of their delibera-
tion.
I suppose, Mr. President, that if I
felt the need for a special commission
of this kind, I might be persuaded that
such a delay was wise. But it seems to
me that there are resources available
to standing committees of this body
and of the other body, the House of
Representatives, that make it possible
for us to act deliberately and yet not
delay in a time when we are quite un-
derstandably concerned with problems
of security and espionage.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, will the
distinguished Senator yield?
Mr. WILSON. I yield for a question.
I am delighted to so yield.
Mr. BYRD. Not necessarily for a
question, if I could just have a
moment in which to respond to the
theme of his argument.
Mr. WILSON. That would please me,
and I am happy to yield, retaining the
floor, yes.
Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, the dis-
tinguished Senator I would hope
would not feel that the adoption of
this amendment and the creation of
such a commission would cause Sena-
tors or committees to delay efforts
they wish to make to pursue this sub-
ject matter.
Earlier today, I said, I believe in re-
sponse to the distinguished chairman
of the Committee on Intelligence, that
this should not be looked upon as an
interference with his committee, its
rights, duties, responsibilities, and
powers. That committee could quite
appropriately proceed with its own
agenda.
I would not see the appointment of
the commission as any reason or justi-
fication for any Member or committee
to Just lay back and say, "Well, the
commission is doing its work, we
should not or we will not proceed
within the-purview of our own powers
and responsibilities." I see no problem
there at all.
I hope that answers the Senator's
question, and I apologise if I did not
respond to his question earlier on the
point. My thoughts were distracted
while he was speaking.
Mr. WILSON. I thank my friend
from West Virginia. and I am reas-
sured that he personally will raise no
such objection. However, Mr. Presi-
dent, I am not reassured that his reac-
tion would be universal. Indeed very
much to the contrary. I think our ex-
perience has been that when we create
commissions it Is generally for the
purpose of gaining an expertise, a
point of view that somehow seems
denied tope Members of this body,
notwithstanding the resources that
are available to us.
I think we have in recent memory
the experience of the Scowcroft Com-
mission which was an extraordinarily
valuable asset, one that did bring a
certain deliberation to a process that
we found useful, useful in a way that
required the creation of such a com-
mission.
I do not decry the creation of com-
missions where there seems a need.
It seems to me in this instance, Mr.
President, there is not such a need and
that rather than doing good we would
be delegating a responsibility that is
properly ours and one for which we
are equipped, one for which outside re-
sources are readily available.
So notwithstanding the Senator's
personal assurance that he would raise
no such objection, I fear that it would
be raised as a bar upon the part of
others, and Tor that reason, reluctant-
ly joining in his concern, I think we
would address that concern best by
simply proceeding to hear measures
that will be before other committees
of the Senate.
I thank the Chair.
Mr. DENTON. Mr. President, we all
share the concern of the minority
leader and those who join with him in
cosponsoring this amendment with re-
spect to the fabric of our espionage
laws as they may be applied to specific
cases. Having said that. I must also
add that I do not believe that yet an-
other Commission is the answer to our
problems.
Mr. President, we have at this time
two very well staffed intelligence over-
sight committees, one in each of the
-respective Houses of the Congress.
Moreover, in the Judiciary Committee
we have a Subcommittee on Security
and Terrorism which has within its
_mandate oversight of the espionage
laws of the United States. In addition,
Mr. President, we have a Permanent
Subcommittee on Investigations which
has only recently completed extensive
hearings on the problems inherent in
our system of issuing security clear-
ances. To the best of my knowledge,
the results of those hearings have yet
to be fully evaluated.
Moreover, Mr. President, we have a
Director of Central Intelligence, an In-
telligence Oversight Board, a National
Security Council, interagency working
groups, and a host of other entities
concerned with the adequacy of our
laws relative to national security.
Mr. President, all this is by way of
saying that the solution to the prob-
lem does not lie with the creation of a
new bureaucracy. We have debated
time and again the appropriateness of
the use of the polygraph to assist in
the screening of those who have access
to highly classified information and I
must say that some of those who are
prominent in the sponsorship of this
particular amendment have been
equally prominent in efforts to inhibit
further use of that important investi-
gative tool. In closing, Mr. President
let me say that I am informed that
major reviews are already underway
and the President is awaiting recom-
mendations of his senior national secu-
rity advisors on additional steps that
should be taken. In particular an ad
hoc interagency group with senior
Cabinet level involvement will recom-
mend specific implementing actions to
the President.
Recommendations from prolonged
consideration of the espionage and
counterintelligence issues over the
past 4 years are already being imple-
mented.
The Intelligence and Armed Services
Committees' of the Congress have al-
ready looked into these matters at
considerable depth and will continue
to apprise of new developments. They
have also begun the process of sug-
gesting improved statutory authorities
for Government agencies and the real-
location of resources toward areas
where they are needed.
At this -critical time it is imperative
not to divert intelligence resources to
a comprehensive investigation that
would expose a widening circle of
people to the extremely sensitive tech-
niques and sources of counterintelli-
gence and counterespionage.
It is for this reason that I oppose
passage of this amendment.
Thank you, Mr. President.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. the
question is on agreeing to the amend-
ment. The yeas and nays have been or-
dered and the clerk will call the roll.
The assistant legislative clerk called
the roll.
Mr. CRANSTON. I announce that
the Senator from Oklahoma [Mr.
Boiling] is necessarily absent.
I also announce that the Senator
from New York [Mr. Mormiasal is
absent because -of a death In the
family.
I further announce that, if present
and voting, the -Senator from New
York [Mr. MOYNIHAN] would vote
"aye."
The PRESIDING OFFICER.. Are
there any other Senators in the Chain- -
ber wishing to Vote?
The result was announced yeas 4e,
nays 50, as follows:
tRolicall Vote No. 130 Leg.)
YEAS-48
Andrews Burdick Eagleton
Baucus Byrd Exon
Bentsen Chiles Ford
Biden Cranston Glenn
Bingaman DeConcini Gore
Bradley Dixon Harkin
Bumpers Dodd Hart
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