DRUGS, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FOREIGN POLICY: CENTRAL AMERICA

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90B00017R000300830002-9
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 103
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 4, 2012
• Sequence Number: 2
• Publication Date: July 15, 1987
• Content Type: MISC

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DRUGS, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FOREIGN POLICY;
CENTRAL AMERICA
WEDNESDAY, JULY 15, 1987
United States Senate,
Subcommittee on Terrorism,
Narcotics, and International
Operations, of the
Committee on Foreign Relations
Washington, D. C.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 1115 a.m.,
in Room SD-419, Dirksen Senate Office Builaing, Hon. John F.
Kerry, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
Present; Senators Pell (Chairman of the full Committee),
Kerry, Helms, and McConnell.
Also Present; Jack Blum, Committee Staff.
Senator Kerry; This hearing will come to order.
My apologies for the delay.
This is a continuing series of hearings regarding
allegations that have been made not only about drug
trafficking which may or may not have assisted the Contras,
but also about broader aspects of drug trafficking as they
may or may not have come to affect and impact American
foreign policy and, indeed, the internal policies of other
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countries in ways that have come to affect the interests of
the United States.
So not only are we looking at the question of pursuing
those issues which have arisen about whether or not Contras
received financing through narcotics trafficking, but we are
looking at a much broader series of implications which affect
our relationship with a number of countries in Central and
Latin America.
This Committee Is trying to determine whether or not
there are any steps which we can take, which may or may not
be appropriate, in the effort to try to fashion policy, which
can have an impact on lessening the degree to which narcotics
may have become an important political force in the world and
an international force in the works.
There is an old saying in trial law that when you try the
devil, you don't go to heaven for your witnesses. To a
certain degree, in trying to prove cases regarding the flow
of narcotics and how it may or may not have impacted foreign
policy and other issues, we must, by necessity, turn to
witnesses who have been involved in narcotics trafficking.
All of us on this panel and everyone in the public has to
obviously to exercise his own judgment about credibility,
test that credibility, and make determinations about whether
or not they think the witnesses have a motive for telling the
truth, are telling the truth, and to what degree their
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stories can be corroborated.
By necessity, because these hearings have only so many
hours at a time and are spaced with the normal workings of
the Senate and of this Committee, the Committee of the whole,
the Foreign Relations Committee, we can't put the whole story
In front of you in one instant.
So, we are building, really, a mosaic, which must be
looked at in the total. We caution folks to make judgments
about this witness, other witnesses, and other information
which may or may not flow from the Committee in the light of
that larger mosaic.
I don't want to take more time now.
We are turning to a witness who is here, again, under
Federal protection, currently serving time. We will try as
hard as we can to ask questions that elicit as well as
possible the ability to be able to make judgments about that
witness's credibility.
Let we turn to my colleagues to see if they have any
opening statements at this point in time.
Jesse?
Senator helms; No, thank you, John.
Senator Kerry; Mitch?
Senator McConnell; No, Mr. Chairman. I really have
nothing to add other than to thank you, once again, for
holding these hearings, and we look forward to hearing from
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the witness about what apparently is a terribly devastating
problem. To the extent that this drug trafficking is having
a direct impact on America's relationship With countries in
this hemisphere, we need to know about it.
We look forward to hearing from Mr. Morales.
Senator Kerry; Would you please stand, Mr. Morales.
Would you raise your right hand, please.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you, Goa?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I do.
Senator Kerry; Would you be seated again, please.
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TESTIMONY OF JORGE MORALES, CONVICTED DRUG SMUGGLER,
MIAMI, FLORIDA,
ACCOMPANIED BY;
SHELDON YAVITZ, ESO., AND RON B. SCHMIDT, ESQ., 7730
SOUTHWEST 112TH STREET, MIAMI, FLORIDA, 33156, COUNSEL TO MR.
MORALES.
Senator Kerry; Would you state your full name for the
record, and if you could pull the microphone right up close
to you and speak clearly into it, that woula be helpful.
Mr. Morales; Okay.
George Morales.
Senator Kerry; Where were you born, Mr. Morales?
Mr. Morales; I was born in Colombia.
Senator Kerry; When were you born there? Your oate.of
birth?
Mr. Morales; Nineteen forty?eight.
Senator Kerry; And are you now an American citizen?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I am.
Senator Kerry; When did you become an American citizen?
Mr. Morales; Late 1970s or learly 1980. Late 1979 or
early 1980.
Senator Kerry; What is your Social Security number?
Mr. Morales; It's
Senator Kerry: And your prison number at this point in
time?
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Mr. Morales:
Senator Kerry; Could you repeat that one?
Could you pull the microphone a little closer.
Mr. Morales: Okay.
You said ? can you repeat the question again, please?
Senator Kerry; Your prison number.
Mr. Morales:
Senator Kerry: Where are you incarcerated?
Mr. Morales: In MCC, Miami.
Senator Kerry: And how long have you been incarcerated?
Mr. Morales: For 13 months.
Senator Kerry: You're currently serving a sentence of
what period of time?
Mr. Morales: I 'm serving two sentences now, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Kerry; What are the two sentences?
Mr. Morales: The one that I was convicted for, CC and
cocaine smuggling, and al so the one for the contempt charge.
Senator Kerry: Contempt charge?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: Well, we'll come back to the contempt
charge later.
Your cocaine trafficking conviction is for what period of
time?
What is your sentence?
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:4?
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Mr. Morales: I was sentenced to 16 years in jail.
Senator Kerry: Sixteen years.
Last seek -- or not last week -- last month, were you
offered immunity before a Federal Grand Jury to tell your
story?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I was.
Senator Kerry: And at that time, did you tell your
story?
Mr. Morales: No, I did not.
Senator Kerry: And you were given a contempt citation at
that time?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I was.
Senator Kerry: But you have reserved your willingness to
tell that story, is that correct?
Mr. Morales: I was willing to tell the story, not at
precisely that moment. I didn't have no notice of
appearance, I had none of my notes with me. Even though I
was wilting to do it, they hold me in contempt.
Senator Kerry: Let we ask this. I'm having a little
trouble hearing. I wonder if it's possible to turn the
microphone up a little bit.
Would you pull the microphone up very close.
Mr. Morales: Okay.
Senator Kerry: Could you repeat that.
Mr. Morales: That I was willing to testify, but not at
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that moment.
Senator Kerry: Not at that time?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; Now, in coming here, have you been
offered Immunity hy this Committee?
Mr. Mcrales; No, not whatsoever.
Senator Kerry; Have any promises been made to you in
exchange for your testimony by this Committee?
Mr. Morales; Not that I know of it.
Senator Kerry; Have you met, or your attorney OM MID let me
just, for the record, would you identify yourself, counsel?
Mr. Yavitz; Yes, thank you.
My name is Sheldon Yavitz and my office is in Miami,
Florida.
Seated at my left is Ron Schmidt, my associate.
Senator Kerry; And you are currently representing Mr.
Morales?
Mr. YavItz: That's correct.
Senator Kerry; How long have you been representing him?
Mr. Yavits; Since March of 1987.
Senator Kerry; Have you ever met any of the Senators
here on this panel prior to tooay?
Mr. Morales; No.
Senator Kerry; When was the first communication from
anyone on any of our staffs to you?
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Mr. Morales:, The first time I talked about this matter
was with Mr. Jack Blum, the gentlemen on the left, on your
right side. That was about this year, at the beginning of
this year, I believe.
Senator Kerry: Now you understand as we begin this
testimony, Mr. Morales, that, in addition to the sentences
you are currently serving, that if you don't tell the truth,
you could be subject to penalties of perjury?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I do.
Senator Kerry: I'm going to interrupt.
Rather than go into several areas of inquiry, Senator
Helms has an engagement that he has to be at and has some
specific questions he wants to ask. To make certain that he
does, rather than begin my introouctory inquiry, Senator, why
don't I turn this over to you at this point, and then we'll
come back.
Senator Helms: Mr. Chairman, that's very kind of you and
I appreciate it. I will be as brief as possible.
Most of my questions can be answered yes or no.
'Mr. Morales, to the best of your knowledge and
recollection, was Eden Pastora aware of the drug activities
of Mr. Cesar and Pr. Chammoro?
Mr. Morales: Not that I know of.
Senator Helms: You don't know that he was aware?
Mr. Morales; I do not know.
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Senator Helms: Did you ever discuss drug dealing with
Eden Pastora?
Mr. Morales: Never.
Senator Helms: Never.
Did you ever launder money in Panama?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Helms: I would like for you to tell the
Committee as briefly as may be possible the extent of the
money laundering in Panama, and how cid you go about it. And
were any government officials involved in the money
laundering in Panama?
- Mr. Morales: I get the money in the briefcase, take a
plane, a personal plane, a private plane --
Senator Kerry: Can you pull the mike closer again? .
Mr. Morales: Yes, let me do it this way and I fly to
Panama.
I would meet these guys who work for the government, and
they will take care of the situation with Customs, and
Immigration people, the authorities, and the airport.
That's all.
Senator Helms: Were you given protection or escort?
Mr. Morales: Sometimes. If you require it, they will
do it.
Senator Helms: By whom?
Mr. Morales: By the bank.
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Senator Helms: By the bank?
Mr. Morales: The bank would make the arrangements, yes.
Senator Helms: The government was never involved in
that?
Mr. Morales: I don't know what you mean by "the
government." I mean, officials?
Senator Helms: The police.
Mr. Morales: Yes, they are.
Senator Helms: The police were involved?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they were.
Senator Helms: To what extent and how?
Mr. Morales: To the extent to safety, to take care of
any problems about getting the money inside the airport and
getting the money outside of the airport to the city.
They were paid for, if you want to call it that way.
Senator Helms: How did you arrange with the police for
this service?
With whom did you deal?
Mr. Morales: I take the, like I told you, I take the
money in the briefcase, I fly over there, previous phone call
has been made, and the official over there will wait for me
at the airport, and he will take care of all the situation.
Senator helms: Excuse me just a moment.
[Pause]
Senator Helms: Mr. Morales, I'm having difficulty
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hearing you. I was checking to see if I've gone deaf.
This sound system in this room is very poor, and I hope,
Mr. Chairman, that you and I can solicit a little bit of help
from the Senate in that regard, because I just can't hear.
Now, excuse me.
Did you identify any specific person with whom you
dealt? I couldn't hear.
Mr. Morales: Excuse me one second.
Senator Helms: Sure.
tPausel
Mr. Morales: Upon advice of my counsel, I shouldn't
disclose any name in public now. I-will not hesitate to do
It In a closed session, if you don't mind.
Senator Kerry: Let me just say with the witness tnat the
one agreement we have made is that in a few cases, because of
risk of life and other things, we are going to hear those
names, and we're going to take them in executive session. At
the end of this, we will take those names in.
Senator Helms: Have you ever travelled to Cuba?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I am -- I was -- I did, I'm sorry.
I did.
Senator Helms: Were you involved in any drug activities
or money laundering in Cuba?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I was.
Senator Helms: Will you describe your involvement?
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Mr. Morales; With the drugs or with the money?
[General laughter]
Senator helms : What was that?
Senator Kerry; With the drugs or with the money.
Senator Helms; Both.
Mr. Morales; I used to fly to this part of Cuba, a city
by the name of Cayo Largo. It's an island in the south of
Cuba, a little island in the south of Cuba, who belongs to
the Cuban Government.
I used to take money to this particular island, and they
kept the money and will transfer the money in any bank that I
wanted the money to be transferred, with the charge of
110,000 -- I mean, I'm sorry -- 10 percent of the amount of
money.
In my drug related with the Cuban Government, I used to
fly over their air space with a special code allowing my
plane to go through, on top of Cuba, to save the time that I
would have had to go around Cuba.
Do I explain myself correctly? Do you understand?
Senator Kerry: Old you understand that?
Senator Helms; Fairly well.
Did you deal with the police or any other representatives
of the government in Cuba in terms of protection and
facilitating the laundering of the money?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
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Senator Helms: I guess, Mr. Chairman, I ought not to ask
for them to be identified in open session. But we will get
to that in executive session.
Let me go back to Panama.
I'm going to ask you the same questions about Panama and
about Cuba.
Do you have any estimate of how much money you laundered
in Panama, totally, over the entire period of your
involvement?
Mr. Morales: Millions of dollars.
Senator Helms: Millions of dollars?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Helms: How about Cuba? The same thing?
Mr. Morales: NO, not that mucn.
Senator Helms: Not that much.
Mr. Morales: No.
Senator Helms: Do you have any estimate? We won't hold
you to the precise amount.
Mr. Morales: Probably half a million dollars.
Senator Helms: Half a million dollars?
Mr. Morales: Probably, yes.
Senator Helms: So obviously you had more involvement in
Panama than you did in Cuba.
Mr. Morales: Yes, about money laundering.
Senator Helms: Over a longer period of time In Panama.
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Mr. Morales: Let me make myself clear about it.
used to take money to Panama and deposit it in
accounts, banks, and later on transfer it -to some other
accounts in the Bahamas.
Senator Helms; Now I think what you have said and are
saying is that Cuba allows for safe haven for drug
traffickers for their boats or for their aircraft.
Mr. Morales: Yes, they do.
Senator helms: Are you aware of any Cubans growing
marijuana or processing such narcotics as cocaine or heroin
on the island of Cuba?
Mr. Morales: Some of the planes that are confiscated
with drugs are sometimes, to my knowledge, directed to me, I
was offered to buy the marijuana.
Senator Helms: How about surrounding islands? The same
answer?
Mr. Morales: I don't know. I don't understand your
question.
Senator Helms: Surrounding islands, islands surrounding
Cuba.
Mr. Morales: That belongs to Cuba?
Senator Helms: Yes.
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Helms: Okay.
Mr. Chairman, I'm going to stop here because I know that
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you're going to be asking about the same questions that I
would ask, and I thank you for your courtesy.
I'll be back as quickly as I can.
Senator Kerry; Thank you, Senator.
Mr. Morales, I'd like to go back and begin at the
beginning a little and lead up through the process, if we
can.
I'd like to ask some introductory questions, if I may.
When did you first become involved in drug trafficking?
Mr. Morales; Around 197--
Senator Kerry; Again, let me just ask you to try to
speak very clearly and slowly. Don't worry about taking
time. We want to understand what you're saying.
Mr. morales; To my best of my knowledge, my
recollection, it was around 1978-9.
Senator Kerry; Prior to 1978 or 1979, what were you
doing?
Mr. Morales; I used to have a company, construction
companies, general contractor company, painting, union
companies.
Senator Kerry; Are you married?
Mr. Morales; I'm divorced right now.
I am divorced right now.
Senator Kerry; At the time you were married?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
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Senator Kerry; Do you have children?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; How many children?
Mr. Morales; I have two children.
Senator Kerry; And in 1978, you were in your
construction business, is that correct?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; At that time, were you also a speedboat
racer?
Mr. Morales; I beginning to do my career, if you want to
call It that way, about speedboat racing.
Senator Kerry; You took speedboat racing very seriously,
didn't you?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry; And you won an international
championship?
Mr. Morales; I won several of them.
Senator Kerry; And do you also hold a world's record in
speedboat racing?
Mr. Morales; I hold about probably six, that I know.
Senator Kerry; Six world records.
Mr. Morales; In the "Guinness Book," yes.
Senator Kerry; What are those records?
Mr. Morales; I hold the fastest boat in the kilo run, in
open class. That was in 1983.
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I also hold the record of the most prestigious races in
the world, which is the Hunt World Trophy, two races in
41M1.1=1.
Senator Kerry: What is that trophy for?
Mr. Morales: To be the winner of two races in London, in
England, and two races in the United States.
Senator Kerry: Now how in 1978 or 1979 did you first
become involved in drug trafficking?
Mr. Morales: Because of my boats, boat driver
abilities. Because of my boat drivers abilities, you know.
Senator Kerry: Your boat drivers?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: Are you also a pilot?
Mr. Morales: I know how to fly. I don't have no
license, no.
Senator Kerry: Were you also in the air cargo and air
charter business?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I was.
Senator Kerry: When did you go into that business?
Mr. Morales: In 1980.
Senator Kerry: Can you describe that business to us?
Mr. Morales: I bought the company, the company by the
name of Aviation Activities, our of Opaloca Airport.
Senator Kerry: Where is that airport?
Mr. Morales: In Opaloca, Florida.
I used to have my office in Building 415, next door to
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Hangar One.
Senator Kerry; What kind of aircraft did you have?
Mr. Morales: I have several aircraft.
I have cargo aircraft, Lear Jets, Piper Aztec, Cessna. I
have helicopters.
Senator Kerry: How many helicopters?
Mr. Morales; I had two helicopters.
Senator Kerry: Were there several corporations?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; What were the names of the corporations?
Mr. Morales; Leasing Activities.
Senator Kerry; Can you spell that?
Mr. Morales: L?E?A?S?E?N Activities. Leasing.
That company was in charge of the Lear jets charters..
Senator Kerry: How many Lear jets?
Mr. Morales; Oh, I have many of. them. I mean, some of
them belonged to the company, some of them die not belong to
the company.
Senator Kerry; Were the Lear jets used in the drug
trafficking?
Mr. Morales; No.
Senator Kerry; What was the other leasing corporation,
or the other corporation?
Mr. Morales: Aviation Activities.
Senator Kerry; What kind of aircraft cid that hanele?
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Mr. Morales: I handled Piper, Navajo Panther, handles
Cessna 402, a 210, Cessna 210.
Senator Kerry; Do you remember the tail numbers of those
aircraft?
Mr. Morales; Some of them, yes, I do.
Senator Kerry; Were those aircraft used in drug
trafficking?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; What were the tail numbers on those
aircraft?
Mr. Morales: Noviembre -- November, I'm sorry
November 114 Sierra Whiskey. That was a 402.
Senator Kerry; That's a Cessna 402?
Mr. Morales; A 402 Cessna. November 811 hotel Whiskey.
That was a Navajo Panther.
November 851 -- I forgot the last number -- Yankee
that was an Aztec.
Senator Kerry: A Piper Aztec?
Mr. Morales: Piper Aztec.
A DC-3, I have about probably 6-7 DC-3s.
Senator Kerry; Were each of those aircraft used in drug
trafficking?
Mr. Morales; Most of them, yes.
Senator Kerry; And will you be able to make available to
this Committee the documents regarding those aircraft?
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Mr. Morales: Yes, I will.
Senator Kerry; Would the FAA have records of flights in
and out of that airports if they were international flights?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they have.
Senator Kerry: Did you f Ile those flights
appropr lately?
Mr. Morales: Some of them they did, I did.
Senator Kerry: Even when they were carrying drugs?
Mr. Morales: Even when they carried drugs and guns.
Senator Kerry; We'll get into guns later.
Did they also file flight plans in the other countries to
which they flew?
Mr. Morales; Some of them, yes.
Senator Kerry; Was that true of Costa Rica?
Mr. Morales; It Is true.
Senator Kerry: Was that true of Colombia?
Mr. Morales: They did not fly yes, they dio.
Senator Kerry; Flied a flight plan?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; Okay.
Did you record your tail numbers accurately on those
flight plans?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; Or did the pilots?
Mr. Morales: Yes, yes.
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Senator Kerry: Now who encouraged you to make the switch
from smuggling marijuana to smuggling cocaine?
Mr. Morales: The whole process became, in 1984, right
after I got indicted, in the CC indictment, the A-48
Indictment.
Senator Kerry: Before we get there, between 1978 and
1979 and 1983, you were trafficking drugs.
Mr. Morales: Marijuana.
Senator Kerry: Were you also trafficking cocaine?
Mr. Morales: Only one time.
Senator Kerry: Only one time?
Mr. Morales: Not directly.
I lent a plane.
Senator Kerry: And the marijuana you were then
trafficking was coming from where?
Mr. Morales: The marijuana I was bringing into the
United States belonged to myself, in Colombia.
Senator Kerry: This was your personal transaction?
' Mr. Morales: Yes.
Seriator Kerry: Where did you bring it in from?
What countries?
Mr. Morales: I brought it to the Bahamas.
Senator Kerry: To the Bahamas
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: --or from the Bahamas?
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Mr. Morales: No, no.
From Colombia to the Bahamas.
Senator Kerry; From Colombia to the Bahamas.
Why did you go to the Bahamas?
Mr. Morales; Because it's the best stop place for drug
activities.
Senator Kerry; Why is it the best stop place?
Mr. Morales; It is close to south Florida, and you be
able to carry out, in and out, any drug activities without no
problem whatsoever.
Senator Kerry; why is there no problem whatsoever in the
Bahamas?
Mr. Morales; Because you be able to buy just about
everybody in the government in the Bahamas about drug related
situations.
Senator Kerry; Did you personally do that?
Mr. Morales; Many times.
Senator Kerry; You personally paia money?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry; And you could, in executive session,
share with us those names?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I will.
Senator Kerry; Now you have been incarcerated for the
last 13 months. During the time you've been incarcerated,
have you talked with people who are engaged in narcotics
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running?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: Right up until the present moment?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; Can you -- I realize It's hearsay and it
wouldn't stand up in a court of law, but from respect of just
this Committee's knowledge, where we operate under different
rules, can you share with us whether or not it is your
knowledge, based on those conversations, that that drug
trafficking still continues through the Bahamas?
Mr. Morales; Well, Senator, I've been incarcerateo for
the last 13 months, like I told you in the beginning, and
through my Incarceration, between my incarceration, I have
been talking to a lot of people who just recently have been
put in jai I, most of them because of the situation in the
Bahamas, being caught In a plane or boat, or any type of
situation related to the Bahamas.
Senator Kerry: And it's your knowledge that the same
ability to traffic still continues?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry; Did they tell you whether It's harder or
Is it more difficult? Is it reduced?
Mr. Morales: About the same way.
Senator Kerry: The same way.
Mr. Morales: About the same way.
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Senator Kerry; How large was your organization?
[Pause]
Mr. Morales; It was very big, Senator. It was very
big.
Senator Kerry; Can you give us a sense?
How many people?
Mr. Morales: I would say that we got indicted probably
14, 15 people, and there were about seven that did not get
Indicted and were about probably
Senator Kerry; Now wait. You're speaking a little bit
fast for me.
Fourteen people were indicted?
Mr. Morales; Fourteen were indicted. There were about
seven
Senator Kerry; With you?
Mr. Morales; Yes -- the first time. I'm sorry. Let me
back up.
The second time, and there were about six or seven that
did never get indicted, and there were about probably maybe
ten or more that were not available for the authorities to
get them indicted.
Senator Kerry; How many pilots worked for you?
Mr. Morales; Many, many. I would say probably 20, 30
pilots, at least.
Senator Kerry; Twenty or 30 pilots?
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Mr. Morales; At least.
Senator Kerry; Are some of those pilots now in jail?
Mr. Morales; Yes, they are.
Senator Kerry; Did some of those pilots fly these
cocaine shipments for you?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they did.
Senator Kerry: Okay.
Can you share the names with us of those pilots who are
in jail currently?
Mr. Yavitz: Mr. Chairman, he would prefer not to do it
publicly. And we would again request as to any names, even
if they are in jails that it be done in a closed session.
Senator Kerry; Well, let me ask this question.
Are you willing to share with us the names? With respect
to corroborating this story, as you understands it's very
important for us to be able to follow the chain of linkage
here.
Mr. Morales; Okay. I can give you the names now.
Senator Kerr; All right.
Mr. Morales; One of them is Tom Hughes.
Senator Kerry; Could you spell that?
Mr. Morales; Tom Hughes -- H?U?G?H?S.
Senator Kerry; H?U?D?H?S?
Mr. Morales; Tom Hughes. He is incarcerated now in
Maxwell Camp. He is incarcerated for the same charges that
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I. serving time at the present time.
Diego Real.
Senator Kerry; Can you spell that?
Mr. Morales; Diego -- D?I?E?G-0. R?E?A?L.
Senator Kerry; Where is he incarcerated?
Mr. Morales; I do not hive no idea.
Senator Kerry; All right.
He was in the same enterprise as you were?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
And Lucas Harmony.
Senator Kerry; Woula you spell that again, please?
Mr. Morales; L?U?C?A?S. Last name is Harmony
H?M?O?N?Y.
Mr. Yavitz; We should point out that's an alias.
Mr. Morales; Sorry about that.
[General laughter]
Senator Kerry; Let me come back to that.
Are the other names aliases?
Mr. Morales; Gary Betzner.
I'm sorry. That was my fault.
Gary Betzner --B?E?T?Z?N?E?R.
Senator Kerry; Thank you.
Is that the only one that's an alias?
Mr. Morales; No. There's quite a few more.
[General laughter]
il?I? 1????
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Senator Kerry: Now, wait, wait.
Mr. Morales: Oh, no, no. I'm sorry, Senator. Co you
mean the
.1= ? 1 ? I ?
Senator Kerry: I know there are quite a few more who
have aliases.
Mr. Morales: No. I thought
Senator Kerry: Of the other names you gave me, were
those aliases or were those the real names?
Mr. Morales: No, no, no. The real names.
Senator Kerry: Their real names?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: Let me do this, because my colleague is
also under some pressure.
I want to ask you a few questions about one area, and
then we'll come back. But I do want the record to go through
this detail. I know it's tedious, but it's very important.
In 1984, you said your shipments began to change.
Is that correct?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they did.
Senator Kerry: Is that the point in time in which you
were approached by people you knew to be part of the Contra
organization?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: Can you describe specifically when that
took place and what took place?
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Mr. Morales: That was right after my indictment.
Senator Kerry: When was your indictment?
Mr. Morales: March third, March third or March sixth of
1984. Right atter that, few weeks, maybe a month, I was
introduced by the Contra leaders in south Florida.
Senator Kerry: Who were you introduced to?
Mr. Morales: I was introduced by Popo Chammoro,
Octavian? Cesar, and
.1?4?110
Senator Kerry: Popo Chommoro.
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: Octavian? Cesar.
Mr. Morales: Yes, and Marcos Aguado.
Senator Kerry: And Marco Aguado.
Mr. Morales: Which they represent themselves as being
leaders of the Contras and also represent themselves as CIA
agents.
Senator Kerry: Now when you say they "represented
themselves," did you know of them at that time?
Mr. Morales: I heard about they being CIA agents. Yes,
I did.
Senator Kerry: When you say "their being," who was a CIA
agent?
Mr. Morales: Marcos Aguado and Cesar Octavian?.
Senator Kerry: How do you know that?
Mr. Morales: It's being very well known through many
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people for a long time around Central America and south
Florida.
Senator Kerry: You knew that at the time?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: Did they have to tell you that for you to
know that?
Mr. Morales: Not whatsoever.
Senator Kerry: And what happened at that point in time?
Mr. Morales: I was aswed for help, financial help, any
type of help that they were looking to have, because they had
to be in this problem, they didn't have enough money,
whatever. And also for exchange of taking care of my legal
problems at the moment.
Senator Kerry: I just want to understand this very .
clearly.
You're saying that they asked you for help?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they did.
Senator Kerry: Were they specific about the kind of help
they asked you for?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they did.
Senator Kerry: All right.
Who specifically asked you for what help?
Mr. Morales: Octaviano Cesar was the one doing most of
the talking in my office.
Senator Kerry: What did he say to you?
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Mr. Morales: He said that I was looking for airplanes,
money, training, weapons, explosives, any type, any kind of
help.
Senator Kerry: Did you agree to help?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry:, What did you agree to do?
Mr. Morales: I agreed to give him some planes, money,
and to help him, to help him out.
Senator Kerry: When he asked you for explosives, and
guns, and other weapons, did you agree to get those weapons?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: Did you know where to get-those weapons
at that time?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: How did you know where to get them?
Mr. Morales: I used to buy the weapons in south Florida,
In a gun shop, before that meeting. It was very obvious that
I can buy more guns after I have the meeting with these
particular fellows.
Senator Kerry: How many times did you meet with these
leaders to discuss your help?
Mr. Morales: Many times, Senator. Many times.
Senator Kerry: In what year?
Mr. Morales: Since 198 -- the first time that I saw him,
not met him, but I saw him, was in 1983, around this time,
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July or so. And then I was introduced formally to them, and
the people, the person who was going to introduce me, told me
who they were. And I became to be Introduced formally with
them in 1984.
Consequently to that meeting, I have several, several
meetings.
Senator Kerry; Now you agreed to give the Contras a
plane?
Mr. Morales; I agreed to give the Contras quite a few
planes.
Senator Kerry; How many planes did you give them?
Mr. Morales: The first time I agreed to give them a
DC-49 a DC-3, a helicopter, a Piper Navajo.
Senator Kerry; You just gave them? You gave them away?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: What was in it for you?
Why did you give away these planes?
Mr. Morales; Well, Senator, like I told you before, I
was arrested long before that time, and I was facing one of
the most critical charges because of my indictment. So the
promised me that they would take care of the legal
activities, the legal activities that I was charged for.
Senator Kerry; Who promised you that?
. Mr. Morales: Cesar and Popo.
Senator Kerry: He said he could take care of your legal
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problems?
Mr. Morales; Yes, yes.
Senator Kerry: Specifically?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: Was he more specific about that?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: How?
Mr. Morales: Many times I talked to him and he told me
that he had plenty of friends, being him, the CIA, can advise
the superiors about my financial support and airplane and
training, and, therefore, they will finally, eventually will
take care of my problem, which they did. To an extent, they
Old. As a matter of fact, they did.
Senator Kerry: We'll come back to that in a little .
while.
If you'd make a note on that, we'll come back to that in
a while. I want to just run through this so Senator
McConnell can have his round.
Mr. Morales: Excuse me one second.
[Pause]
Senator Kerry; Was the plane that you gave the Contras
used by them?
Mr. Morales: Yes, it was.
Senator Kerry; And you know that for a fact?
Mr. Morales: For a fact, sir.
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Senator Kerry: At this point in time, did you make some
agreement about running guns down to various locations and
bringing drugs back?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
That was part of the agreement.
Senator Kerry: When you say "that was part," can you be
more specific?
Precisely how did that discussion come about?
Mr. Morales: I was supposed to give him financial
support, also buying guns for them, supplies, safety houses
for them, in south Florida, buying equipment, different type
of equipment, boats, engines, boots, uniforms, whatever it
was they need for them to have.
Senator Kerry: How were you supposed to buy this? Did
they give you money?
Mr. Morales: No.
I was the one who was going to buy, from my own money.
Senator Kerry: Where was the money coming from?
Mr. Morales: Drugs.
Senator Kerry: Did they know that?
Mr. Morales: Of course they know that.
Senator Kerry: Why do you say "of course they know
that?" How do you know they know that?
Mr. Morales: Because we discussed, as a matter of fact,
we discussed to bring drugs that did not belong to me. They
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Senator Kerry: Whose drugs?
Mr. Morales: The Contras drugs.
Senator Kerry:
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How do you know they were Contra drugs?
Mr. Morales: They told me.
Senator Kerry: What?
Mr. Morales: They told we. As a matter of fact
Senator Kerry: What did they tell you? Did they say
here's drugs, these are Contra drugs?
Mr. Morales: No, no, no.
They say, there was a few trips that I was supposea to do
for them In drugs. I did not ever ask him where the drugs
come from other than that they were the drugs.
Senator Kerry: Did you do those trips?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: When you Say you did, did you personally
fly them?
Mr. Morales: No.
I instruct my pilot to fly them.
I was waiting on the runway for some of them, and I saw
the drugs.
Senator Kerry: Now, in 1984, did you personally load
weapons into an airplane in Fort Lauderdale?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: Did you see those weapons?
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Mr. Morales: I bought them.
Senator Kerry: Where aid you buy them?
Mr. Morales: I bought them, some of them I bought them
In the gun shop in south Miami.
Senator Kerry: What kind of weapons were they?
Mr. Morales: Machine guns, automatic rifles, high
powered rifles, pistols, explosives.
Senator Kerry: Were these fully automatic machine guns?
jr. Morales: Ohs yes. They were.
Senator Kerry: Did you buy fully automatic machine guns
on the open market in Florida?
Mr. Morales: I did.
Senator Kerry: In what quantity did you buy them?
Mr. Morales; We sent many planes full of weapons down
there. I really don't recall specifically the amount of
items, but it was very considerable.
Senator Kerry: Dia you load these weapons onto the
airplane in daytime or nighttime?
Mr. Morales: I did load them in the daytimes 12;00 in
the daytime.
Senator Kerry: Right in the full view of people?
Mr. Morales: Yes. Many times.
Senator Kerry: And were you at the airport when the
planes came back?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I was.
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Senator Kerry: What did you unload from those planes
when they came back?
Mr. Morales: I was in the beginning of the runway. The
plane lands and unloads the drugs into the end of the
runway.
Senator Kerry: How did you know they were drugs?
Mr. Morales: I saw them.
Senator Kerry: What did you do with those drugs?
Mr. Morales: Sell them.
Senator Kerry: What did you do with the money?
Mr. Morales: Give it to the Contras.
Senator Kerry: All right.
I'm going to come back to this because there's obviously
considerably more detail that needs to be fillet:1'ln.
Mr. Morales: Let we make myself clear, Senator.
Senator Kerry: Please.
Mr. Morales: I gave them back to the same people oecause
the Contras means a lot to a lot of people. I gave them back
to Mr. Octaviano Cesar, who works for, used to work for the
CIA, and Mr. Popo Chammoro, and Marcos Aguado.
Senator Kerry: We're going to come back to go after some
of the details on this.
I'd like to let Senator McConnell have an opportunity
here.
Senator McConnell: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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We've heard a lot of allegations in both executive
sessions and in public sessions from people who are currently
in jail about a variety of different individuals who are not
in jail.
For example, three weeks ago, Mr. Chairman, my staff
asked yours to confirm whether or not certain individuals
were or were not members of the CIA, if such allegations were
to be made in public.
We have here today two suggestions, of two individuals,
'that Mr. Morales, who is currently in jail, say were members
of the CIA.
I just wonder if counsel has found the answer to that,
since we have made that request several weeks ago.
Senator Kerry; We don't have an answer. We do not have
an answer yet.
Senator McConnell; Wells it seems to me elementary, when
you know in advance that somebody is going to say in a public
meeting that a couple of Individuals are in the CIA, that we
would be entitled to an answer to that. I would suggest, Mr.
Chairman, that we get that answer forthwith.
We are all interested in this inquiry. I think it is
terribly important. But to the extent that people are going
to be accused in public of being this, that, or the other, by
convicted felons who are currently doing time, it seems to me
we also owe the public an obligation to find out whether or
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not these allegations are truthful.
Senator Kerry; Let me just say that I don't disagree
with the Senator at all. In fact, I agree completely. He is
absolutely correct. He is on target.
This Senator is somewhat frustrated, however, because for
a year and a half, I have been asking these questions. We
now have subpoenaes out. I have met with members of the
CIA. We have sent letters under the signature of Chairman
Lugar and at that time Ranking Minority Member Pell to the
Justice Department, and we still do not have answers to those
inquiries.
I think there has been a pattern of slow response here,
which is part of what I think we'll get out of this over time
But I will certainly undertake, to the best of my
ability, in joint concert with your office, immediately upon
the conclusion of this hearing, you and I can both get on the
telephone and we can both ask for that secret briefing and
see if we can get to the bottom of this.
Senator McConnell; Well, I think we should have done
that earlier.
As you know, we have tried to pursue this in a bipartisan
way and I would like to continue to do that. But we would
like, as I have repeated to you in private, when allegations
such as this are made, we think we're entitled to hear from
the people against whom the allegations are made.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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There is one individual that is not the subject of this
hearing today that we fully expect to be called next week to
respond to allegations that were made against him in an
earlier executive session, and I assume, counsel, that that's
going to happen. Is it not?
Senator Kerry; We are hopeful that it will.
We have been trying to serve that individual. He is
currently in uniform in the armed services of another
country.
Senator McConnell; He has agreed to come at any time.
We have been in communication with him. There is no
problem. There appears to be a delay in trying to get him up
here. He is willing to come next week, and I fully expect
his to be called next week.
????
Senator Kerry; We fully expect him to be here as soon as
possible.
He was subpoenaed in the large group of subpoenaes that
went out last week.
Senator McConnell; He doesn't even need to be
subpoenaed. He's happy to come, wants to comet and, as far
as I'm concerned, he's going to be here next week, unless you
tell me otherwise.
Senator Kerry; If he says that he's going to be here,
I'm delighted to hear him.
Senator McConnell; We'll be delighted to hear from him.
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Meanwhile, back in the Bahamas, how frequently did you
transit the Bahamas?
Mr. Morales; Every day, Senator.
Senator McConnell: Every day?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator McConnell; Did you rely on air drops,
off?loading cargo planes to smaller planes, or did you use
boats, or all of those?
Mr. Morales; I used all of them.
Senator McConnell; All of them?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator McConnell; Ana you were doing it every day?
Mr. Morales; No. I used to fly it to the Bahamas every
day.
Senator McConnell; You flew to the Bahamas.
Mr. Morales; I used to also do trips, small trips every
day, yes.
Senator McConnell; Ana you long were you flying over
there every day?
Mr. Morales :1 I recall sometimes we die seven trips a
week. I recall once that we did seven trips a week.
Senator McConnell: Yes. But over how long a period of
time were you going over there?
Mr. Morales: From 1979 ? 1980 to 1983 or 4 three.
Senator McConnell; How many people were typically
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Involved in those transactions over there in the Bahamas?
Mr. Morales: Unloading the merchandise?
Senator McConnell: Just the number of Bahamians that you
would deal with in a typical transaction. How many?
Mr. Morales: Just about everybody in the Bahamas.
Senator McConnell: Just about everybody in the Bahamas?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator McConnell: Put a number on that. How many
people are you talking about?
Mr. Morales: Excuse me, Senator.
EPausel
Mr. Morales: I'm sorry. I must have misinterpreted the
question.
Can you ask me the question again, please?
Senator McConnell: How many Bahamians would you deal
with in a typical transaction to make it work out to your
satisfaction?
Mr. Morales: In a single transaction?
Senator McConnell: Yes.
Mr. Morales: Customs, Immigration, the police, and the
people who were in charge of unloading the merchandise, the
people in charge to keep the merchandise safe.
Senator McConnell: And all of these people were bribed,
were they not?
Mr. Morales: Every one of them.
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Senator McConnell; Were there individual acts of
bribery, or couIC you make a monthly payment?
Just how did you handle this?
Mr. Morales; They used to make their salary by trip.
I used to pay like, for instance, to the man in charge of
the island, he used to take care of the police, Immigration,
and Customs.
Senator McConnell; So you had one sort of Mr. Fix?it
that took care of it?
Mr. Morales; For the police, yes, and for the
Immigration and all. Sometimes I did it myself, direct.
Many times I did it myself.
And I used to pay another gentleman who will be the one
in charge of the unloading and stash houses, whatever.
Senator McConnell; So each separate transaction
triggered a different series of bribes? You didn't sort of
pay by the week or the month, or something like that?
Mr. Morales; You're right.
Senator McConnell: You went through this on every single
day. You were going through it?
Mr. Morales; Yes. Sometimes I did it every single day.
Sometimes it took weeks, maybe months, to do it.
Senator McConnell; Did the size of the haul affect how
many people you had to bribe?
Mr. Morales; Yes, it did.
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Senator McConnell; What percentage of the amount of
money involved in a given transaction woulo be required to
pay
off everybody you needed to pay off to make it work?
Mr. Morales: Senator, that will be very hard for me to
explain to you because of the different types of drug related
trips. It's not the same thing to pay off for a small plane,
with 290009 29500, 2,800 pounds of marijuana, as the same
plane with 500,000 kilos of cocaine.
Senator McConnell; On a percentage basis, though, was it
roughly the same?
Mr. Morales; No.
It goes with the type of merchandise, anc also goes with
the amount of drugs involved on it.
Senator McConnell; Dia you personally pay off government
officials?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator McConnell; Were they members of the parliament?
Mr. Yavitz; This is a very touchy auestion and requires
a very delicate answer. He's not prepared to give that
answer in public.
Senator McConnell; But was the answer that he did pay
off elected officials, not just appointed functionaries, but
elected officials as well?
Mr. Morales; Yes. Yes, I did, directly xyself.
Senator McConnell: Did you have much contact with the
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competition, so to speak, the other people involved in the
same kind of illicit drug trading you were involved in?
Would you run into other people doing the same thing?
Mr. Morales: Senator, I used to have aviation activities
In Opaloca. It is FOB, a fixed operation base. Most of the
planes, the trips that we did, legal trips, they were going
out of Opaioca to the Bahamas.
I owned a company for a long time. Therefore, I was,
used to see these people every single day. Everybody. And
also I run across them in the Bahamas, when I was going my
activities, my illegal activities.
Yes, I did.
Senator McConnell; Yes, you did what?
Mr. Morales: I did, saw other competitors while I was
doing my illegal activities. Yes, I did.
Senator McConnell; Almost every day, aid you?
Mr. Morales: I used to see them every day.
You have to understand something, Senator.
Have you ever been in the Bahamas?
Senator McConnell: No.
Mr. Morales: Can I explain to you?
Senator McConnell: Yes.
Mr. Morales: Okay.
Let's take, for instance, Gran Inagua. Gran Inagua has
only one taxi, has only one bus, it's stationed in Casa
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Station, and has only one hotel. So, therefore, whatever you
want to do on that island, you have to go to the number one
guy. It's only one road, and about 209 309 50 families.
Everybody knows each other. I believe, and I'm sure that's
the only source of income Therefore, it's very obvious for
me or for anybody else to go over there and find out what's
.going on and see the same people.
Senator McConnell: So in that particular area, drug
trafficking was the only source of income?
Mr. Morales; That I know of it, yes.
Senator McConnell: It totally dominated the economy,
then?
Does it totally dominate the economy of the Bahamas?
Mr. Morales,: Do you want me to draw that conclusion? Do
you want me to tell you the way I feel?
Senator McConnell: Well, your opinion. I know that
you're not an economist on the Bahamas.
Mr. Morales: Yes. Yes, it is.
Senator McConnell: How successful were the interdiction
efforts of this country during the perloo you were
operating?
Mr. Morales; Can you be more specific about that
question, Senator?
Senator McConnell: How successful were the interdiction
efforts of this country during the period you were operating
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between the Bahamas and the U.S.
Mr. Morales: I had not even had a problem.
Senator McConnell: It had no impact on your work at all
,I=1,
Mr. Morales: Not whatsoever.
Senator McConnell: -- until they caught you?
Mr. Morales: Not whatsoever.
Senator McConnell: From what you know, have the recent
interdiction efforts of the United States had any impact on
the drug trafficking between the Bahamas and the U.S.?
Mr. Morales: I don't think so, Senator.
Senator McConnell: So you don't think the increase in
efforts have had any impact on it at all?
Mr. Morales: Not whatsoever.
Senator McConnell: If you were In our shoes, you're
pretty experienced at this business.
Mr. Morales: Yes, I was.
Senator McConnell: You dio it for a while and made a lot
of money, presumably.
Mr. Morales: Yes, I was.
Senator McConnell: If you were in our seats, what would
you do?
Mr. Morales: Probably legalize the drugs.
[General laughter]
Senator McConnell: What's your second choice?
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? [General laughter]
Mr. Morales: I'm sorry, Senator, I didn't mean to be --
but that's, quite frankly, the answer, legalize the drugs.
Senator McConnell: But assuming that's not likely to
answer, what's your second choice?
Mr. Morales; The second choice I really don't know.
It's impossible to do it.
Senator McConnell: Impossible?
Mr. Morales: Yes, it is, because every single day
Senator McConnell: So, in your view, we're sort of
wasting our time?
Mr. Morales: Yes, in sort of a way, yes. Every single
day 'has more and more people in the business. You know, it
became a major, major way to live, major -- how do you say
OEM, GEM
?MIlr MN.
Senator Kerry: Source of income?
Mr. Morales: Yes, a major source of income, especially
in the Bahamas. That's the only income they have
whatsoever.
Senator McConnell: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Kerry: Thank you very much, Senator.
We will be briefed this afternoon by the CIA, if you can
make yourself available.
Senator McConnell: I'll be available.
Senator Kerry: We can get further information, I hope.
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Mr. Chairman, do you have any questions you would like to
ask at this point?
The Chairman; No questions, thank you.
I just want to get the flavor of the hearing.
Senator -Kerry; Thank you very much. We appreciate your
presence.
The Chairman; I want to congratulate you and Senator
McConnell on pursuing this line of inquiry.
Senator Kerry: Thank you very much.
I want to come back to something. I want to ask you more
about Cuba.
This is the first time you've ever talked about Cuba, am
I correct?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; You've never mentioned that you had any
narcotics involvement in Cuba before.
Mr. Morales; I did mention it through my attorneys to
the U.S. Prosecutor in south Fiorioa many times.
Senator Kerry: But publicly you've never said that?
Mr. Morales; No, never -- I don't think so. Not that I
recall.
I don't think so.
Senator Kerry; Before I revisit the issue of the gun
running, which we need to get into in more detail, let me ask
you this.
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How did you get into Cuba?
How were you able to exit and to entrance?
Mr. Morales; Since I recall, that was from the Mariel
time, and also through a friend of mines who used to deal
with the Cuban authorities about the drug activities.
Senator Kerry; Did you also pay money there in order to
facilitate that?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; Did you pay money through your friends
who paid people, or did you pay people directly?
Mr. Morales: Directly.
Senator Kerry; You paid them directly?
Mr. Morales; I dia.
Senator Kerry; How did you get the overflight
permission? Where did that come from?
Mr. Morales; You just have to have a code.
Senator Kerry; Who gave you the code?
Mr. Morales: The officials, Cuban officials.
Senator Kerry; And you had your special code, personal
code?
Mr. Morales; A specials personal code. I did.
Senator Kerry; Did that code change ever?
Mr. Morales; No.
Senator Kerry; It was always the same code?
Mr. Morales: Always the same one.
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Senator Kerry: Over what period of time were you
involved in narcotics trafficking with Cuba?
Mr. Morales: Since early 1980 to 1984, or 5 many
years. Many years. I would say probably my last trip to
Cuba was In 198--
Senator Kerry: Did you fly in in one of your aircraft?
Mr. Morales: I used to go in ana out in my own aircraft,
yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: Did you fly in the same aircraft each
time?
Mr. Morales: No. Different aircraft each time.
I flew probably three or four aircraft. But I didn't go
one after the other one in the same aircraft, no.
Senator Kerry: Where would you fly from?
Mr. Morales: I would fly from Miami, Opaloca, my
airport. Sometimes from Executive Airport in Fort
Lauderdale.
Senator Kerry: Did you file a flight plan?
Mr. Morales: No, I did not.
Senator Kerry: How would you deal with the American
defense system?
Mr. Morales: You don't have to deal with that, Senator.
Senator Kerry: Why?
Mr. Morales: You just have to have a plane, have a
pilot, and jump in a plan, take off.
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Senator Kerry: Well, don't we have surveillance of
aircraft coming out of Cuba?
Mr. Morales: Probably, but I never had to deal with no
such a thing like that.
Senator Kerry: You just flew in?
Mr. Morales: I flew from here directly to Havana.
Senator Kerry; What altitude did you fly at?
Mr. Morales: Out of there to here?
Senator Kerry: From the United States to Cuba.
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: What altitude?
Mr. Morales: Oh, the altitude -- 11,000 feet; sometimes
8,000. You know, you approach the island, you go clown.
Senator Kerry: Did you fly low to avoio radar at any
place?
Mr. Morales: Say that again, Senator?
Senator Kerry: Did you fly low to avoid radar at any
location?
Mr. Morales: Me flying the plane, being in the plane?
Senator Kerry: Yes.
When you were in the plane going to Cuba, did you try to
avoid radar at all?
Mr. Morales: Sometimes, yes.
Senator Kerry: Sometimes.
Mr. Morales: Yes.
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Senator Kerry: Why only sometimes?
Mr. Morales: When I went from Cuba to the Bahamas, I had
to fly low, maybe because we wanted to see the ocean, but not
really particularly to avoid the radar.
Senator Kerry: But not to avoid the radar.
Mr. Morales: I really don't know. I don't recall flying
one time specifically just to do that. Sometimes we did it
Inside the United States, yes, to avoid the radar.
Senator Kerry: Did the Cubans solicit assistance from
you regarding drug trafficking?
Mr. Morales; They are in the business to make money,
Senator. So any type of, sort of speaking, any type of
business, they're willing to do with you, especially with you
well known in the business, like I was in those times.
Senator Kerry: Did there come a time when you were
invited to Havana?
Mr. Morales: Yes, many times.
Senator Kerry: How aid that come about?
Mr. Morales: That was in 1984.
Senator Kerry: Why were you invited to Havana?
Mr. Morales: I went over there to visit some of my
wife's relatives, relatives.
Senator Kerry: That was pleasure, then?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry; Where aid you stay?
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Mr. Morales; I stayed in the Triton Hotel Havana.
Senator Kerry: Did you talk to government officials at
that point in time?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I did. Many of them.
Senator Kerry; Did they personally Identify themselves
to you?
Mr. Morales.; Yes, sir. They did.
Senator Kerry; Was there any discussion about
Intelligence gathering at that time?
Mr. Morales; Can you repeat? Can you be more specific
about that question, Senator, please?
Senator Kerry; Did they ask you to engage in any
Intelligence gathering activities?
Mr. Morales;
To engage with them in --
Senator Kerry: Intelligence gathering,information,
Intelligence.
Mr. Morales; For them?
Senator Kerry: Yes.
Mr. Morales: No. If they did, I don't recall.
Senatoe Kerry: id they make any offers to you of any
kind?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they did.
Senator Kerry; About what?
Mr. Morales: For instance, to be there, to avoid my
charges, because I was facing so many years. They offered me
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the island. They offered me my own coce, which I did have.
They offered me island, different than Cuba. They offered me
a runway, bank, house.
Senator Kerry; Why didn't you accept that?
Mr. Morales: I did some. I did accept some of it.
Senator Kerry: What did you accept?
Mr. Morales: I did accept the house, and my code to go
in and out of Cuba without no problem whatsoever. I did
accept bank transactions. I did accept to buy gold in their
own banks.
Senator Kerry: So this was to facilitate your drug
trafficking?
Mr. Morales: Sort of speaking, yes.
Senator Kerry; What year was this?
Mr. Morales: In 1984 and 1985.
Senator Kerry: This was after your indictment?
Mr. Morales: Yes, and before that, too. I want to make
that clear, for the recoro. In 1980, when I went for the
Mariel, I met very high officials, which I was also offereo
different types of transactions, different types of deals,
business.
They wanted to buy, also, Senator, any type of, they
wanted to get any type, to buy any type of merchandise, you
know, boats.
Senator Kerry: Let me ask Senator McConnell if on Cuba
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he has anything he wants to ask, before we move into another
area.
Senator McConnell: No, thank you.
Senator Kerry: Let me come back to the question now of
guns and Contras.
You say the first contact was made in, you met in 1983,
but the first contact to actually assist in getting guns was
in 1984.
Is that correct?
Mr. Morales: I did send some guns in 1983.
Senator Kerry: You sent some guns in 1983.
Mr. Morales: Yes, 1983.
Senator Kerry: What quantity of guns would you send in
any shipment?
Mr. Morales: In 1983, I recall sending 40 M-79s, grenade
launchers. I do not know where the plane land, other than
there was a discussion if they lana in Costa Rica or
Salvador.
Consequently, with that trip, I learned through the
people through the plane that they landed in Salvaoor.
Senator Kerry: Do you remember, at Ilopango?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they doo.
Senator Kerry: Do you remember the tail number of that
plane?
Mr. Morales: If I'm not mistaken, it's PaPa PaPa Echo
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Delta Charlie.
Senator Kerry: What kind of plane?
Mr. Morales; DC-3,.C-47. The same as the one the CIA
has now in Ilopango, which I gave them in 1984, late 1984, to
the CIA.
Senator Kerry; I'm sorry. I didn't follow that.
Mr. Morales; The same plane that I gave to the Contras
and the CIA in late 1984. They still have it.
Senator Kerry: You're saying they still have it?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; It's at Ilopango now?
Mr. Morales; It is there.
Senator Kerry; How do you know that?
Mr. Morales; Because they haven't moved it.
Senator Kerry; How do you know they haven't moved it?
Mr. Morales; I talked to, in the meeting that I had with
Mr. Eden Pastora last year, it was in the beginning of 1986,
the last meeting that I had with him, and we discussed the
situation with him.
That's why I know that the plane is still there.
Senator Kerry: Now that is the only shipment in 1983?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; In 1984, that's when you first had these
series of meetings with PoPo Chammoro and Marco Aguado, is
that correct?
41.
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Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: In 1984?
Mr. Morales: I was formally introduced to them in 1984.
Senator Kerry: Who introduced you to them?
Mr. Morales: Mr. Chammoro's, his wife.
Senator Kerry: Did Martha Healy play any role in that?
Mr. Morales: She is in fact, Mr. Chammoro's wife.
Senator Kerry: How long a period of time did those
meetings go on for?
How many times did you meet?
Mr. Morales: About every single day. We just, I used
to stay in the same hotel with them.
Senator Kerry: Where?
Mr. Morales: The meetings lasted for oays and days ana
days.
Senator Kerry: Where?
Mr. Morales: In Miami.
Senator Kerry: What hotel?
Mr. Morales: Fontainbleu was one of them.
I remember in late 1984, that Octaviano Cesar went with
me for a week or ten days for the offshore power boat race in
Key West.
Senator Kerry: Under whose name did you register at the
hotel?
Mr. Morales: I used to have the whole penthouse. It's
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supposed to be me or my racing team. Maybe, maybe could have
been him, himself, because, as I recall, he was first in the
penthouse; later on he was in the third floor. I believes, If
I'm not mistaken, 315 is the room number.
Senator Kerry: Who was on the third floor?
Mr. Morales: Cesar.
Senator Kerry: Cesar?
Mr. Morales: Cesar Octavian?, 9 yes, and his wife and
some friends.
Senator Kerry: In the Fontainbleu Hotel?
Mr. Morales: No.
This is in Key West.
Senator Kerry: Oh, Key West.
Mr. Morales: In the Fontainbleu Hotel he was in his own
name.
Senator Kerry: Which hotel was he in in Key West?
Mr. Morales: Casa Marina -- Casa Marla.
Senator Kerry: Casa Maria.
Now you say you met with him there?
Mr. Morales: No. We flew, as a matter of fact, we flew
one of my helicopters together with my wife and his wife,
Martha Healy, down there for the races.
Senator Kerry: And it was in those conversations that
the discussion of assisting the Contras came up?
Mr. Morales: No.
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Senator Kerry; All right. When did that --
Mr. Morales; All the time. The purpose of the meeting,
the conversation, all the time, I don't recall not even one
particular time, Senator, that I met with them that we didn't
talk about the guns, drugs, the help.
Senator Kerry; Always?
Mr. Morales; All the time.
Senator Kerry; When was the first trip that you made in
which guns went down and drugs came back?
Mr. Morales; That was around July, 194.
Senator Kerry; In 1984?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry: How did that arrangement come to be
made?
Mr. Morales; With them, with Popo and Octaviano.
Senator Kerry; Was there specific discussion of drugs
coming back in in the same plane?
Mr. Morales; All the time.
Senator Kerry; Why did that discussion take place?
Mr. Morales; Because that was the purpose of our
meeting, Senator. That was the purpose of me helping them
out in return for them helping me with my legal problems, in
the State Department, CIA, whatever.
Senator Kerry; Now how were you able -- I think most of
us sit here and says you know, here you are, in the open
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daylight of which airport which this Fort Lauderdale
airport?
Mr. Morales: We sent guns from different airports,
Senator.
Senator Kerry: All right.
You flew guns out of Fort Lauderdale airport?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: You flew guns out of Miami International
Airport?
Mr. Morales: No.
Senator Kerry: Which airport?
Mr. Morales: Out of Opaioca Airport.
Senator Kerry: Opaloca Airport.
Mr. Morales: Many times.
Senator Kerry; What other airports did you fly guns out
of?
Mr. Morales: Executive Airport in Fort Lauderdale.
Senator Kerry; Any others?
Mr. Morales: No, sir.
Senator Kerry: Now, here you are, In the light of day,
12;00 noon, at Fort Lauderdale airport. You are loading an
airplane and you're loading guns into the airplane.
You didn't worry about anybody stopping you?
Mr. Morales; No.
As a matter of fact, I did request, and I did ask, Marcos
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Aguado, and I remember specifically he telling me not to
worry about it: we are the CIA, we are going to be around the
plane, and don't worry about it.
Senator Kerry; We're going to be what?
Mr. Morales; Around the plane. Around the plane. Do
not worry about it, because I was concerned about that
S ituation.
Senator Kerry; Did any Customs agents ever inquire?
Mr. Morales; Never, other than I remember one time one
of them --
Senator Kerry; Let we Just interrupt you.
You were under indictment at this time?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I was.
Senator Kerry; So you were doing this for a reason, is
that correct?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry; What was the reason you were doing this?
Mr. Morales; Number one, they promised me: in exchange
for my support, to take care of my legal problems.
Secondly, I was sort of paying back what I owe, you
know. I feel good doing It because I say at least 19m paying
back what I owe them, that I did illegally, between these
years.
And last, to help them out.
Senator Kerry; Let we ask you a question.
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SomebodY sitting here, listening to you now, you've been
convicted to 15, 16 years, I take it the IRS is after you for
money -- is that right?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; You owe them money?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I did I do.
Senator Kerry; So you've got a lot of problems, right?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I do.
Senator Kerry: Here you are, sitting here in front of a
Committee, and you're telling us these things as though they
are sort of the normal day, which, for you, I suppose it was,
but for us it's not.
And we're sitting here listening, and every one of us has
to say to ourselves, you know, is this guy telling the
truth? Why should we believe him today?
I want you to address that. Why should I believe what
you're saying, sitting here, talking about guns running out
of here really easily and drugs coming back in, and this was
business as usual?
Mr. Morales; Senator, since last year, right after I got
indicted, I tried too many times, many, many, many times, to
get a hold of the U.S. Prosecutor in south Florida, Miami.
And my attorneys, which, at that time, I had about four or
five, every one of them contacted the U.S. Attorney, Mr.
Kellner, Mr. Karadbel, Neil Karadbel, Leon Y. Kellner, Lynea
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SomebodY sitting here, listening to you now, you've been
convicted to 15, 16 years, I take it the IRS is after you for
money -- is that right?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; You owe them money?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I did I do.
Senator Kerry; So you've got a lot of problems, right?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I do.
Senator Kerry: Here you are, sitting here in front of a
Committee, and you're telling us these things as though they
are sort of the normal day, which, for you, I suppose it was,
but for us it's not.
And we're sitting here listening, and every one of us has
to say to ourselves, you know, is this guy telling the
truth? Why should we believe him today?
I want you to address that. Why should I believe what
you're saying, sitting here, talking about guns running out
of here really easily and drugs coming back in, and this was
business as usual?
Mr. Morales; Senator, since last year, right after I got
indicted, I tried too many times, many, many, many times, to
get a hold of the U.S. Prosecutor in south Florida, Miami.
And my attorneys, which, at that time, I had about four or
five, every one of them contacted the U.S. Attorney, Mr.
Kellner, Mr. Karadbel, Neil Karadbel, Leon Y. Kellner, Lynea
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Mr. Morales: No.
Senator Kerry: Oh, I'm sorry, excuse me. The House
Counsel.
Mr. Morales: By the way, I die talk to Mr. Karadbel, the
U.S. Prosecutor in my case, and I told him, face to face,
that I'm willing to do it, and that was one week before my
sentence.
Senator Kerry: One week before you were sentenced
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: you told the U.S. Attorney's office
you would, you were trying to plea bargain, correct?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: And you were trying to make a deal?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: And you said you were willing to tell all
of this information.
Mr. Morales: All this information, with the Cuba, and
quite a few more things that, because of the nature, of the
sensitiveness of this information, all the things that I have
to explain, I'm not going to be able to reveal that in public
session.
He knew about it.
Senator Kerry: Were you ever given a lie detector test?
Mr. Morales: No, never.
Senator Kerry: Nobody has ever given you one?
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Mr. Morales: Never, ever.
Senator Kerry; There is no record of your taking one?
Mr. Morales; I have never taken one. I don't even know
how to take one, to be quite frank.
Senator Kerry; Are willing to take one?
Mr. Morales; I'm willing to do it. I'm right here.
Senator Kerry; It this Committee asked you to take one?
Mr. Morales: Yes, 100 percent.
Senator Kerry: All right.
Now, when did you first have a communication other than
your indictment, a discussion with the U.S. Attorney's Office
In Miami regarding your willingness to talk?
Mr. Morales; When was the first time?
Senator Kerry; [Nods affirmatively]
Mr. Morales; Right after my indictment. Right after I
got arrested, June 12, 1986. My attorney, Kate Bonner
-- had a meeting with Mr. Kellner and Lynea
Snaeder?Johnson was at the meeting. Mr. Neil Karadbel was at
the meeting. Don Carpenter, private investigator, who worked
for Mrs. Bonner, was at the meeting. Kellner himself, and my
attorney.
Consequently to that meeting, my other attorney, by the
name of David O'Leary, also contacted Leon Kellner and talked
to him about my situation.
The response was that they were not interested in
an,1???
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politics.
Senator Kerry; Now this was in 1986?
Mr. Morales; Yes, it was. Yes. Right after my, right
after I got arrested on June 12.
Senator Kerry:
You were arrested June 122
Mr. Morales; Yes.
And he also, in the meeting that --
Senator Kerry; Let me just go slowly because I want the
record, the chronology, to show.
On June 12, you were arrested -- of 1986?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; And reports surfaced publicly about the
gun running and drug smuggling in the newspapers in Miami
during that period, didn't they?
Mr. Morales; Yes, it was.
Senator Kerry; And through the fall?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry: When was the first time you were called
before the Grand Jury to give evidence regarding these
matters?
Mr. Morales; About a month ago.
Senator Kerry; One month ago?
Mr. Morales; A month ago, yes.
Senator Kerry; In 1987?
Mr. Morales: In 1987. I believe it was a Tuesday. Can
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you hold one second, please, Senator?
Senator Kerry: Yes.
Mr. Morales: I believe it was Tuesday. I believe it was
the 16th of June.
That was a Tuesday, I believe, the 16th of June.
Senator Kerry; The 16th of June. All right.
Now, during the summer and fall of 1986, did you attempt
to make known through your attorneys your willingness to
discuss these matters?
Mr. Morales; For the record, Senator I would like to,
for you to be a little bit more specific about what means the
"summer?"
Senator Kerry: Well in 1986.
Mr. Morales: Which months, please?
Senator Kerry; From July --
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; -- all the way through the rest of the
year of 1986.
Mr. Morales; Into?
Senator Kerry: Into 1987.
Mr. Morales; Into 1987. Probably two months ago, the
last tine. The last time I took the effort myself, directly
myself, and I talked to the U.S. Prosecutor myself about this
relation, this situation.
Senator Kerry: But during those months last year, from
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July to December, did your lawyers communicate to the U.S.
Attorney's Office?
Mr. Morales: Yes, many times.
Senator Kerry: Did you make yourself available to
oiscuss these matters?
Mr. Morales: All the time. That was the major effort,
the major concern, for us to talk to the U.S. Prosecutor and
Inform him about all these several things that we're talking,
discussing, today, in this hearing.
Senator Kerry: Counsel, did you want to add something?
Mr. Yavitz: I'd like to point out that initially Mr.
Morales was concerned about a plea bargain or improving his
position with the government, and at that time was willing to
provide that information to improve his chances with his
prosecution.
At this particular time, he has already been sentenced,
and he is receiving no benefit of any kind by coming here
before this Committee, or any Committee. From a legal
standpoint, I have personally been opposed to him doing some
of this, both for his own safety and for whatever benefits he
can derive, which are basically nil.
So, if someone is concerned about his veracity or
truthfulness at this time, here is a man who is coming before
this Committee with nothing to gain at this time of any
value. Actually, it's against his best interests.
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We do not have immunity, or my client does not have
Immunity. He has no witness protection program. He has a
U.S. Attorney's Office in Miami who is totally opposed to
him, who has taken such steps as to make sure that no
agencies, from any DEA, Customs, or any agency which might be
inquiring Into this matter or interested In inquiring into
this matter, can even deal with him. They have attempted to
discredit him.
Senator Kerry: Let me ask you. Wait a minute, now.
That's a very serious statement.
You're saying that the U.S. Attorney has prevented other
agencies who want to deal with him from doing so?
Mr. Yavitz: Yes.
Senator Kerry: What other agencies have been prevented
from dealing with him?
Mr. Yavitz: Customs, DEA.
Senator Kerry: In what way have they been prevented?
Mr. Yavitz: In order for a person, or a cefendant, or an
ex?defendant, such as Mr. Morales, to deal with an agency, he
obviously has to derive some type or enter into some type of
agreement whereby what he would say would not be used against
him, and the parameters of the agreement, it's usually
reduced in the simplest form to a memo. But the agencies,
being police and not being attorneys, cannot provide the
letter of intent or letter of agreement.
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And the U.S. Attorney's Office has refused to allow their
office to be used to secure such an agreement.
So, even though the letter, the memo, could be reduced to
a page, or a couple of lines, they have refused to provide
that assistance, and, as a matter of fact, have told various
agencies and agents not to deal with Mr. Morales at all, and
not to deal with his representatives at all.
We have been confronted with that.
I personally have been confronted with that over the last
several months. So I speak from a position of total
knowledge that we have had that type of confrontation with
the U.S. Attorney's Office.
Mr. Morales, being here today, even though he is
subpoenaed, could readily have invoked the Fifth Amendment.
As a matter of fact, that was my initial preference when
we came here today. And I discussed with Mr. Blum my
personal reluctance, my opinion and my reluctance as an
attorney, in allowing him to do that, in allowing him to
testify, and made it very clear to Mr. Blum how I telt that
this was prejudicial to Mr. Morales' well being and safety,
and that there was nothing really to be gained by it.
Mr. Morales at this point is, regardless of having been a
convicted drug smuggler or drug dealer, is, nevertheless, not
a foreigner, but is an American. What he is actually doing
here is simply out of a patriotic standpoint, something he
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personally cannot convey, and I don't know if he even has
gleaned that. But that is the only reason that he can be
here today.
Senator Kerry; Let me just say that I appreciate that.
We had discussion beforehand about the question, about
those issues. I think the record ought to also show that he
Is currently under a grant of Federal immunity as to his
activities involving the Contras, I believe.
Mr. Yavitz: No, no.
What had happened is the U.S. Attorney's Office, through
the Justice Department, secured an immunity grant, which took
effect upon the court issuing an order to grant him immunity.
But until he testified, ana he has not testified, the
immunity does not practically attach.
Senator Kerry: I totally understand that it does not
attach. But it seems to me very difficult, given the order
and the intent of the prosecutor, to not recognize that same
intent under the cover of a Congressional inquiry.
We don't need to go into that further here now. But I am
certainly, on the basis of what you have said, inclined to
want to seek some kind of response from the U.S. Attorney, as
well as from the DEA and possibly Customs. I think that we
ought to know because this is precisely one of the areas of
inquiry that we are concerned about in this Committee -- you
know, what has happened that these kinds of activities are
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moving out of three Florida airports in the warm light of day
without anything happening? And what happens when people
have made themselves available and we go for months, and they
are not called before grand juries, particularly when there
has been as much interest as I think there has been on this.
I think that is a legitimate focus.
Let me keep going. I want to come back to something.
Mr. Morales: May make something here for the record,
Senator?
Senator Kerry; Yes.
Mr. Morales; I am sure that my attorneys contacted the
U.S. Prosector's Office long before that June 12, 1986, long
before that, about my activities with the CIA and the
Contras.
Senator Kerry: Okay. We'll come back to that and there
Is some of that that we may have to pursue in a different
session.
We still haven't got the full chronology here with
respect to the guns and weapons, and I want to try to
complete that.
How many flights did you specifically direct to take
weapons and come back with narcotics?
Mr. Morales; All this started, and other things, in
Senator Kerry; Would you speak clearly into the
microphone?
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? Mr. Morales: Yes -- in 1983 oh, 1984. In 1984, I did
send right after my meeting with them two planeloads of
weapons. One of them was leaving out of my office, ano the
other one left out of Executive Airport, in the plane that I
bought for the Contras.
Senator Kerry: What kind of weapons did you ship in
those shipments?
Mr. Morales: I shipped some of the weapons given by
them, and others.
Senator Kerry: What were they? What kind,
specifically?
Mr. Morales: They were M-16s, machine guns, some C-49
explosives, plastic explosives. I recall one, big, cannon, I
don't know what it was, an M-60 or something like that.
Ammunitions.
The plane was full. Both planes were ft:II.
Senator Kerry: What were chests weapons packed in?
How were they pPed?
Mr. Morales: Very poor packing. I mean, you can see the
weapons through the boxes.
Senator Kerry: They were just dumped in boxes?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: No wrapping around the weapons?
Mr. Morales: Some of them, none whatsoever.
I did have those weapons in my office and I checked some
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of them. Some of them I shipped, some of them I did not
because they we re in poor condition.
Senator Kerry: What was the largest aircraft of weapons
that you used, that you shipped out?
Mr. Morales; The Titan.
After, In 1984?
Senator Kerry; (Nods affirmatively]
Mr. Morales; The Titan.
Senator Kerry; How many guns would you ship in that?
Did you?
Mr. Morales; I cannot tell, Senator.
Senator Kerry; Were all these guns bought on the open
market in Miami?
Mr. Morales; Some of them, yes. Some of them were given
to me by the Contras in Miami
Senator Kerry; Do you know where they came from in
Miami?
Mr. Morales; We had the discussion about where the guns
come from because I was very upset because of the situation,
that I was going to send a plane full of weapons, wh Soh* did
not pay the trip to send the weapons. I was very upset.
I recall calling to Popo Chammoro to advise him that it
was very poor conduct, the organization, because I found a
lot of weapons rusty, and those weapons were not going to be
able to be used by the Contras.
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Some of the weapons I bought them myself through
different purchases in Miami.
Senator Kerry/ The Titan shipment weighed about how
much? Do you remember the weight?
Mr. Morales: About 2,000 pounds. It was heavy, very
heavy.
It was very heavy.
Senator Kerry; How many shipments of weapons did you
personally oversee or take part in loading?
Mr. Morales; The first time that I shipped the weapons
was in 1983, July, 1983, July?August, 1983.
The second one was in July, 1984, June or July, /9849
right after I met with Octaviano and Chammoro.
Right after that, I took some of their pilots and trained
them because Marcos Aguado did not want to deal with the
situation because he was afraid, being a CIA, as he described
he was, to being in the situation, in which he was going to
get caught in between because of my reputation in south
Florida as being a drug smuggler.
So, therefore, he suggest, Octavian?, that we should look
for pilots others than the ones used to work for me, very
familiar with the runways in Central America. That's exactly
what we did.
Senator Kerry; Where did you look for those pilots?
Mr. Morales; They were provided to me by the Contras.
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Senator Kerry: Who supplied them?
Mr. Morales: Chammoro, Cesar, and Marcos.
Senator Kerry: Did you train those pilots?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did. Many of them.
Senator Kerry: Where did you train them/
Mr. Morales; I trained them in the Bahamas. I trained
them in Opaloca Airport. Many times.
Senator Kerry: What did that training consist of?
Mr. Morales: Specifically, how to operate a load, I mean
a plane load of heavy weapons or drugs; to brief them in the
way how to operate planes because there were very
sophisticated machines and they were not used to that -- some
of them they were, some of them not.
I train them how to approach the runways in the Bahamas,
how to approach the runway loaded, how to take off in the
middle of the day loaded, how to transfer the fuel from the
regular tanks to auxiliary tanks in order for us to have a
long fuel range.
Senator Kerry: How long did this training period take
plade?
Mr. Morales; It took place that I recall from 1984 all
the way to 198-- the late 1985, beginning of 1986.
Senator Kerry: How many pilots were there that you
trained?
Mr. Morales: I would say probably eight, nine pilots.
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Senator Kerry: And all of these pilots flew for you?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they did.
Senator Kerry: Flew your aircraft?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they did.
Senator Kerry: And they flew the shipments of guns?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they did. Some of them did, some of
them did just training. And it was never a time for them to
fly the weapons.
Senator Kerry: In executive session, can you give us the
names of those pilots?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: Do you know where any of them are now?
Mr. Morales: They are in Costa Rica.
Senator Kerry: All of them?
Mr. Morales: As a matter of fact I believe can you
hold on one second?
[Pause1
Senator Kerry: Now, you were going through the
shipments. You had a July shipment, et cetera. How many,
can you complete that question of how many shipments there
were?
Mr. Morales: In July, were two of them, with guns down
and drugs back from Costa Rica. Consequently, after that,
there were quite a few trips from Colombia to the Bahamas.
I would say probably eight.
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The first two, the first couple, maybe two or three,
there were, I used the pilot as a co?pilot for the training.
One of the Contras pilots. And the rest of the trips he did
it himself, as a pilot.
Late 1985, I flew myself to Costa Rica, and we discussed
with them.
Senator Kerry; Who did you deal with in Costa Rica? Did
you have to have a contact down there to pick up the drugs?
Mr. Morales: I deal with the Contras. They had this
special, they had this ranch, John Hull's ranch, which the
plane
1?111111M
Senator Kerry: All right. Where is this ranch?
Mr. Morales: The ranch is in the south, I mean, the
south of Nicaragua, north part of Costa Rica. We flew there
Senator Kerry; Whose ranch? John Hull?
Mr. Morales: John Hull's ranch.
Senator Kerry: Did you personally fly into that ranch?
M. Morales: No, I did not.
Senator Kerry: But your pilots you say did?
Mr. Morales: Yes, they did.
Senator Kerry: In your aircraft?
Mr. Morales: Yes. They did in my own aircraft. Many
times.
Senator Kerry: How many times?
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Mr. Morales; I recall with the guns and without guns.
Senator Kerry: With guns?
Mr. Morales; And without guns.
There were some flights from El Salvador to Costa Rica,
In which they land over there without guns. I'm not too sure
If they have guns or not at that moment. Don't commit me to
that.
Senator Kerry; Did you ever meet John Hull?
Mr. Morales; Formally, I never did. No.
I saw him. I saw him. The first time I saw him, it was
in my office in 1983.
Senator Kerry; What was that? He was in your office,
but you didn't meet him?
Mr. Morales: No. I did not want to.
Senator Kerry; Why didn't you want to?
Mr. Morales; Mr. John Hull-is very well known by many
people in Colombia and Central America for his activities,
and also has the reputation in which he is, I believe, being
a CIA. And I didn't want no dealings with government people
other than what we already have established through Mr.
Chammoro and Mr. Cesar.
So there was no need for me to meet him.
Senator Kerry; Why did he come into your office?
Mr. Morales; He came in 1983 to my office.
Senator Kerry; Was he alone?
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Mr. Morales: No. He was with Marcos Aguado. And also
that was the first time that I recall seeing Mr. Gerardo
Duran, who is one of the pilots who got arrested the same day
in Costa Rica, for the coke shipment.
Senator Kerry; What did he come to your office for? Did
you learn?
Mr. Morales; He came to my office with a gentleman by
the name of Gustavo.
Senator Kerry: I couldn't understand that.
He came to what?
Mr. Morales: He came to my office with a gentleman by
the name of Gustavo, a Colombian friend. And that was the
first time I saw him.
The second time I saw him in Costa Rica, at the hotel.
That was late 1984.
Senator Kerry:. What hotel?
Mr. Morales: Carriare.
Senator Kerry: What was the occasion of that meeting?
Mr. Morales: I went over there to check the shipment of
coke that was supposed to be flown from there to the Bahamas
the next week or so.
Senator Kerry: A shipment of coke?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry; You went to the hotel to check it?
Mr. Morales: No.
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We had it in one of the safety houses. Cr they had it in
one of the safety houses.
Senator Kerry: Who did you meet with at the hotel?
Mr. Morales: I meet with Mr. Carol Prado. I meet with
Octavian? Cesar. I meet with several of them.
Senator Kerry: Why was John Hull there? Was he part of
that meeting?
Mr. Morales: Well, he was in the poolside. I did not
know if he was part of, he was not part of the meeting.
Senator Kerry: He was not part of the meeting?
Mr. Morales: No, he was not. He dion't took part any of
my meetings, no. He was just in the pool with some of the
pilots.
Senator Kerry: Did your pilots take weapons to John
Hull's ranch?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: Do you specifically know they landed
there?
Mr. Morales: Yes, definitely. No doubt in my mind.
Senator Kerry: Did they come back with anything in their
planes?
Mr. Morales: The first time they came with 400?and?some
kilos of cocaine, came directly to Florida.
Senator Kerry: I'm sorry. I missed that.
Mr. Morales: The plane came oirectly from Costa Rica to
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Florida. That was in July, 1984. June or July, 1984.
That was the first time.
The second time was two weeks after that. We sent, we
flew some weapons out of my office.
Senator Kerry; Excuse me for one minute, please.
(Pause I
Senator Kerry: Do you remember when he first came? You
say he came to your off ice at the airport. Had he flown into
the airport?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I believe so. As a matter of fact, I
know fora fact.
Senator Kerry; You know he flew in?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
He was there, and I remember
Senator Kerry: Do you know what kind of plane he flew in
in?
Mr. Morales: November 666 -- I forgot the letters.
Senator Kerry; Why do you remember those letters?
Mr. Morales; Senator I used to have Push and Pull
November 3339 and I used to have also Twin Beech with the
numbers of 33333.
So It was called to my attention, this plane being 666.
That's why I remember so much.
I mean, the Opaloca Airport, it is not that large of an
airport.
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Senator Kerry; I want to show you a set of documents
here if I can.
Would you take those down to him (indicating).
[Pause]
Senator Kerry; Do you recognize those? Do you know what
those are?
Have you ever seen those before?
Mr. Morales: No, I don't.
Senator Kerry; You've never seen that document?
Mr. Morales; Never in my life.
Senator Kerry: Do you know what it is?
Mr. Morales; It is sort of a Customs or Immigration
entry.
Senator Kerry; And it's a Customs form from wnere?
Mr. Morales; From -- from -- it was going to Miami,
coming from MROC. I really don't know what that stands for.
Senator Kerry; What country, does it say?
Mr. Morales; Are you talking about the first one,
Senator?
Senator Kerry; Yes.
Mr. Morales; No. No. This is, the airplane took off
from someplace, to San Andress and from San Andres it was
going to go to Miami.
Senator Kerry; Okay, San Andres Island, is that
correct?
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Mr. Morales: Colombia, yes.
Senator Kerry: In Colombia.
And this Is a Republic of Coloibia Civil Aeronautic
Filing Form of some kind?
Mr. Morales: Yes, it is.
Senator Kerry: Ana do you recognize the aircraft number
on that?
Mr. Morales: The first one, November 666. The one I
just described to you.
Senator Kerry: And the pilots are listeo as?
Mr. Morales: Marcos Aguado and John Hull.
Senator Kerry: Is that the same aircraft number?
Mr. Morales: It was the same. It is the same.
Senator Kerry:, Ano you've never seen that form other
than that?
Mr. Morales: Never.
Senator Kerry: Did you ever fill out that kina of form
yourself?
Mr. Morales: Never in my life. No. I never been in San
Andres.
Senator Kerry: Okay. You don't know what that is.
Let we turn you to the next document.
We'll mark that first document, just for identification
purposes, as Exhibit one, and this will be Exhibit two.
Do you recognize what this is?
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Wt.
Mr. Morales; Excuse me?
Senator Kerry: Do you recognize what this is, the
document in front of you, the second document?
Mr. Morales; Yes. It is a gas bill, a gas receipt.
Senator Kerry; Do you see the aircraft tail number
there?
Mr. Morales: November 666, Papa Fox.
Senator Kerry: Okay. What kind of aircraft is that?
Mr. Morales; That is a Beechcraft 7-55.
Senator Kerry: Do you know that airplane?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I know that airplane.
Senator Kerry; How do you know that airplane?
Mr. Morales; I saw that airplane in Opaloca Airport in
1983.
Senator Kerry; Did you ever use that aircraft in arug
trafficking?
Mr. Morales; I believe so. We were going to use it
once, in 1985, probably.
Senator Kerry; And under whose name is that entry
recorded? This is a gasoline document.
Mr. Morales; Yes. It's under Marcos Aguado.
Senator Kerry; All right.
Let me turn you to the next document, which we'll mark as
Exhibit three.
What is that document?
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What do you recognize that as?
Mr. Morales; This is a gas receipt.
Senator Kerry; Are these used at your airport?
Mr. Morales; Excuse me?
Senator Kerry; Did you ever fill out these kinds of
forms?
Mr. Morales; My people did, yes.
Senator Kerry; Are these used at your airport?
Mr. Morales: No. I never see this.
Senator Kerry; But would you use these when you flew
Into Costa Rica?
Mr. Morales; From my office? Yes.
Senator Kerry; These forms?
Mr. Morales; Yes. Yes, many times.
Senator Kerry; And what's the aircraft number on that
receipt?
Mr. Morales; November 9-1-Charlie --
Senator Kerry; Bravo.
Mr. Morales; --Bravo, I believe.
Senator Kerry; And the aircraft type?
Mr. Morales; It's a Beechcraft 55 also, from San Andres
to
0?1?1?111.
Senator Kerry; And the date?
Do you see the date on that?
Mr. Morales; It's 83-6-25.
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Senator Kerry; And the name of record on the flight?
Mr. Morales; John Hull, as pilot, I guess.
Senator Kerry; And that aircraft number, does that
aircraft number tell you anything?
Mr. Morales: Not whatsoever, no. Not that I remember.
Senator Kerry; You don't have any memory of ever seeing
that aircraft?
Mr. Morales; No.
Senator Kerry; You never used that aircraft in drug
trafficking?
Mr. Morales: Not that I remember.
Senator Kerry; The next document -- what Co you
recognize that to be? I think there are two pages to the
next document; the Quality Inn Airport Motel. Is that
correct?
Mr. Morales; Yes, sir.
Senator Kerry; Are you familiar with any meetings that
.took place on June 26 at that hotel with, I guess -- do you
know who -- the two names on that are Mr. John Hull and
fta
Gerardo Duran, correct?
Mr. Morales; I know both of them very well.
Senator Kerry; Who are Gerardo Duran?
Mr. Morales; Gerardo Duran is the gentleman in charge of
the training of the whole pilots for the Contras. He was the
one who took the place from Marcos Aguado to do the flights
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for me.
Senator Kerry: Did you have dealings with Gerardo
Duran?
Mr. Morales: Many of them.
Senator Kerry: What kind of dealings did you have with
Pi i ?
Mr. Morales: I train him as a pilot.
Senator Kerry: Did he run drugs for you?
Mr. Morales: Yes, he did.
Senator Kerry: He did?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: And guns?
Mr. Morales: Yes, he aid.
Senator Kerry; And on this particular motel bill, where
he is listed with Mr. John Hull, did you have a meeting with
them at that hotel?
Mr. Morales: I had several meetings in that hotel -- not
on that particular day.
Senator Kerry: But not this day. You weren't there?
Mr. Morales: Not this day, no.
Senator Kerry: You would use this hotel, however.
Mr. Morales: With them, yes.
Senator Kerry: Do you recognize the signatures on the
second page?
Mr. Morales: You mean the
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Senator Kerry: Either of them.
Have you seen those signatures before?
Mr. Morales: Yes, yes.
Senator Kerry: What are those signatures?
Mr. Morales: That's the signature of Gerardo Duran.
Senator Kerry: Do you recognize that as his signature?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: All right.
Thank you.
Now, turning to the next document, that's a Texas
Petroleum gas receipt?
Mr. Morales: Yes, it is.
Senator Kerry: What aircraft number does that record?
Mr. Morales: November 666 Papa Fox, Beechcraft.
Senator Kerry: That's the same Beechcraft as before?
Mr. Morales: That's the same one. The same number as
before.
Senator Kerry: Is that the same aircraft?
Mr. Morales: That I saw in my place in 1983?
Senator Kerry: Is that the same one?
Mr. Morales: The same one -- the same number.
Senator Kerry: And the date of this is when?
Mr. Morales: It's 83-6-25.
Senator Kerry: And the name listed on it?
Mr. Morales: Marcos Aguado.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
20 F ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 [phone]
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Senator Kerry; That plane -- for the record, did you
state earlier whether or not that plane was used in narcotics
trafficking?
Mr. Morales; Yes, it was.
Senator Kerry: It was.
Mr. Morales; To my knowledge, though.
Senator Karry: Excuse me one second.
(Pause]
Senator Kerry; The documents thus far Identified will be
made a part of the record.
[The information referred to follows;]
COMMITTEE INSERT
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Senator Kerry: Notwithstanding their being part of the
record, we're going to hold those particular documents in
Committee at this point in time. They will not be released
until further documentation has been established regarding
them.
You had a series of meetings in Costa Rica, Mr. Morales,
Is that correct?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did, Senator.
Senator Kerry: In 1984?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: Were those meetings also with the same
group of people you have described thus far?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: They were with Popo Chammoro, Marco
Aguado.
Mr. Morales: Commandante Tito.
Senator Kerry: Okay.
Who else?
Mr. Morales: Carol Prado, and
=DOM
Senator Kerry: Would you describe who Commandante Tito
was?
Mr. Morales: Commandante Tito is, he was the second one
in command In the field, field command, after Eden Pastora.
Senator Kerry: And you met with him in Costa Rica?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
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Senator Kerry: What was the substance of those
discussions?
Mr. Morales; I was looking for can you hold on for
one second, please?
IPauseI
Mr. Morales; My discussions with Commandante Tito
Senator Kerry: Now if I could ask you to wait for one
second.
[Pause]
Senator Kerry: Excuse me, Mr. Morales.
Please proceed.
Mr. Morales; My conversations with Commandante Tito
arrive from a series of threats to my lite in 1984, ana I dia
request for them to supply with some of the best soldiers. to
be MY bodyguards.
Senator Kerry; Did they grant that?
Mr. Morales; Say that again, please?
Senator Kerry: Did they give you them? Did you get the
bodyguards?
Mr. Morales: No. They never arrived to Miami.
I did not like the way they carry themselves,
and I
didn't think it was proper, the proper people for me at that
time.
Senator Kerry; When you were in Costa Rica, did you have
discussions about drug trafficking?
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Mr. Morales; Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: Who did you have those discussions with?
Mr. Morales: Mr. Chammoro, Mr. Octavian?, and the
pilots, the rest of the pilots.
Senator Kerry; Now let me ask you a couple of hard
questions, though maybe they're not hard.
Do you know I don't want you to guess, I don't want
you to surmise, I don't want you to sort of have an opinion
-- but do you know personally whether or not other narcotics
suppliers were also assisting the Contras?
Mr. Morales; Yes, I know.
Senator Kerry; You know that?
Mr. Morales; Yes, they did.
Senator Kerry; Were they?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: How do you know that?
Mr. Morales; Because I have many conversations with them
about the same situation. Some of my frienas
????
Senator Kerry: These are people you know to be in the
business?
Mr. Morales; Yes.
Senator Kerry; How much money did you personally direct
toward -- strike that.
How such -- can you estimate the amount of narcotics in
dollars that you shipped back as part of this scheme for
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transfer of weapons down there?
Mr. Morales: How much was the money?
Senator Kerry: How much money in narcotics value was
brought back in as part of this linkage in 1984 aria 1985?
What was the street Value of the drugs that came in?
Mr. Morales: Many, many, many millions of dollars. Many
millions of dollars. Many.
Senator Kerry: Can you give us an estimate of the kilos
of cocaine?
Mr. Morales: In 1984, the kilos of cocaine in July were
going around $32,000, $34,000, $35,000 a kilo. That is $35
million right there, in July.
Senator Kerry: It's $35 million?
Mr. Morales: In July,'
Senator Kerry: In July.
Mr. Morales: July, yes.
And after those two trips, we did six more that every one
of them brought to the Bahamas 2,500 pounds of marijuana.
Six or eight -- I do not remember exactly to which the
pilot was, like I testified before, as a co-pilot, the rest
of them, he was a pilot. Those, let's put it at six trips,
involved 2,500 pounds of marijuana. That's 9,000 pounas of
marijuana.
Senator Kerry: What is the period of time for the 9,000
pounds of marijuana?
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Mr. Morales; From July to October.
Senator Kerry: July to October.
Mr. Morales: Maybe, maybe not October, because right
in November was when I had to be ready for the water champion
in 1984, and it was the same time when I took --
Senator Kerry: Okay. You were still boat racing during
all of this?
Mr. Morales: Oh, all the time, yes.
Senator Kerry: All the time.
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: Even after you were indicted?
Mr. Morales: The second time I did it at their request.
Senator Kerry: No, no. You were still racing your boats
even atter you were indicted?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: Up until the time you went to jail?
Mr. Morales: Yes, I did.
Senator Kerry: So, 9,000 pounds of marijuana till about
Cctober.
Mr. Morales: At that time, it was around $330 --
Senator Kerry: What's the value of the 9,000 pounds?
Mr. Morales: The wholesale value was $330. Retail value
was around S500, in the streets.
Senator Kerry: Five hundred?
Mr. Morales: Dollars a pound in the streets.
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I never went to the retail value myself. I used to give
the whole load to just --
Senator Kerry: You just wholesaled?
Mr. Morales: -- one persons and he would take care of
the whole situation?
Senator Kerry: And that was it?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
I sold him at around 3330 a pound. That is 9,000 pounds
times 3330.
Senator Kerry: Did the cocaine continue to come in after
October ? November of 1985?
Mr. morales: Right after my meeting with them in late
December of 1984, yes.
Senator Kerry: No. It's 1985 now.
When did it stop? When was the last shipment?
Mr. Morales: After I -- before I got arrested. The last
shipment was on June 8, 1986.
Senator Kerry: Okay.
Mr. Morales: No. I'm sorry. January es 1986.
Senator Kerry: January 8, 1986.
Mr. Morales: That was the last trip with the 421 kilos
of cocaine. Sorry 413 kilos of cocaine.
Senator Kerry: Where did that trip come from? Where did
It originate?
Did that take weapons down?
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Mr. Morales: Costa Rica. Costa Rica.
Senator Kerry: Did the flight come from Florida?
Mr. Morales: Florida.
Senator Kerry; Dia it take weapons?
Mr. Morales: No weapons down.
Senator Kerry: Just narcotics?
Mr. Morales: Narcotics coming back.
Senator Kerry: Were the narcotics that came back, did
those narcotics, was that a separate pickup? Did you get
them through the same people in Costa Rica?
Mr. Morales; Every one of my deals --
Senator Kerry: I'm sorry. I didn't understand.
Mr. Morales: Excuse me. Every one of the dealings that
I have through Costa Rica, every one of them had to do with
the Contras. I never did any on my own, or somebody else. I
didn't need, I didn't have the need to go to Costa Rica.
Senator Kerry: Did anybody explain to you why the
Contras were turning to drugs or using drugs?
I mean, dld, you ask for an explanation, or did you care?
Mr. Morales: It was, yes, we had several meetings about
that. It was the lack of help from the United States to
them, in part. They were struggling for money, for
supplies.
Senator Kerry; Now I want to come back to one other
question.
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What happened to the law enforcement efforts down there
that you were able to just fly this stuff in and out of the
airports with impunity?
Mr. Morales: Everybody was about. We took care of
everybody over there, in the airports in the ranch.
Senator Kerry: In Miami?
Mr. Morales:
No, no. I'm talking about south.
Senator Kerry:- In Costa Rica?
Mr. Morales: Yes.
Senator Kerry: What about Miami?
How do you just fly in and out of Miami with guns?
Didn't anybody ever ask about an Arms Export Control Acts or
say what are you doing taking weapons outs or are those
guns?
Did anybody ever walk up and say what's that shipment?
Mr. Morales: Never. We never had that fears either. It
was never in our minds that someone, something like that will
happen.
Senator Kerry: Were there Customs at each of those
airports?
Mr. Morales: Yes, at every one of them.
Senator Kerry: Were there any arrangements with any of
the Customs officials at any of those airports?
Mr. Morales: No. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Kerry: None to your knowledge.
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Mr. Morales; The guns, I was told, I was told by Marcos
Aguado that he was the one who was going to take care of that
situation.
He told me do not worry. We have officials around the
plane. Those were his exact words. We have, I am going to
be, we have officials around the plane.
-Senator Kerry: Now, when the drugs flew back in, did
they come in in daytime or nighttime?
Mr. Morales; They come in in nighttime. A few of them
In daylight. But a few of them.
In the United States, they came twice at night. The rest
of them came daytime.
Senator Kerry; Now here you are. You have been indicted
before. You have a known reputation in the region as a
narcotics trafficker. You are leading a pretty flashy
lifestyle. You have helicopters, planes at your disposal,
you are racing fast boats, with a lot of money moving
around. And you're telling us that at this airport, with all
of this knowledge about you, you were still able to move
around without any fear?
Mr. Morales: I was very, very surprised myself.
[General laughter]
Mr. Morales: But, in fact, in fact that was what
happened, Senator. It happened that way. That is the fact.
And not only one time. Many times. Many times.
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I remember one time, as a matter of fact, when the agents
asked one of the mechanics who used to work in my plane like
this, did Morales airplane lett already? That's exactly what
he told me. I don't know if it does. You can tell if it's
true or not, but I remember that particular time.
Senator Kerry: What were the circumstances of your
finally being arrested in June of 1986?
Mr. Morales; How that happenea?
Senator Kerry; [Nods affirmatively]
Mr. Morales: They just went to my house and arrest me In
my house. There was a helicopter.
[Pause]
Mr. Morales: That was June the last shipment, coke.
Senator Kerry: The last shipment?
Mr. Morales: It's 413 kilos of cocaine from south,
sorry, from Costa Rica to the Bahamas.
Senator Kerry; Why dian't you get away with that one,
since you had done it with such impunity up until them?
Mr. Morales: At that time, Mr. Gerardo Duran and the
other pilot were busy doing some other activities in Costa
Rica. Therefore, they asked me to look for a pilot, which I
did.
I talked to my accountant and I told him to find a pilot.
We did and we failed.
That was the DEA informer, the DEA guy.
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Senator Kerry; So you found a DEA informer as a pilot?
Mr. Morales; Yes. He was the one who flew the plane
back to the Bahamas, and he was the one who told the Bilk, I
mean, the Customs, citations, planes, helicopters, the
Bahamas, and operation BAT B?A?T -- about the plane that
was coming from Costa Rica to the Bahamas.
Senator Kerry: Okay.
I'm going to let counsel proceed here with a few
questions while I just review some things here to make sure I
have covered all my areas. Then we will see where we go..
Mr. Blum: Mr. Morales, I'd like to return to a flight
that was made in December, as I understand it, of 1984. You
net in Costa Rica at a hotel, is that correct?
Mr. Morales: The flight took off from Costa Rica on.
December 26 or 27.
Mr. Blum; Where did that flight leave from?
Mr. Morales; It took from Tamarindo Airport.
Mr. Blum; And where cid that flight go to?
Mr. Morales; It was going to go to Great Harbor. But
the flight never occurred, never went through. The pilot was
flying at that time. He flew over Nicaragua, and had some
problems with the air force of Nicaragua, and had to come
back to this particular airport and unload the drugs.
Senator Kerry: Mr. Morales, what I'm going to do is
recess for about 45 minutes now, to give you a chance to have
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a break and get a little lunch.
Mr. Morales: Can I mention --
Senator Kerry: Let me Just say that we're going to come
back at 200 into some period of continued open session
before going into executive session.
There is some information about how you got frequencies,
how you knew what the Coast Guard was doing, and other things
that I want to pursue with you, as well as a couple of other
areas.
Mr. Yavitz: We'd like to correct the record.
Senator Kerry: So if I could ask people to remain seated
while the marshalis escort the witness out, then we will be
back here at 2:00 o'clock in open session.
Mr. Yavitz: Excuse me one moment.
Senator Kerry; Yes?
Mr. Yavitz: The flight that he was talking about was
December, 1985, rather than 1984.
Mr. Blum: We'll straighten that out when we get back
after lunch.
Senator Kerry: Right. I understand that.
We stand recessed until 2:00 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 1:15 p.m., the Committee recessed.]
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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