SOPHIA CASEY AND DAUGHTER BERNADETTE INTERVIEWED

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90-00965R000807540004-7
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 12
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 12, 2012
• Sequence Number: 4
• Publication Date: October 28, 1987
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

STAT
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RADIO TV REPORTS, INC.
4701 WILLARD AVENUE, CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND 20815 [phone]
PROGRAM The Morton Downey, Jr. Show STATION WOR-TV
Cable Syndicated
DATE October 28, 1987 9:00 P.M. CITY Secaucus, N.J.
SUBJECT Sophia Casey and Daughter Bernadette Interviewed
MORTON DOWNEY, JR: Welcome to a very special edition of
the Morton Downey, Jr. program. We are delighted tonight to have
an exclusive visit from Mrs. William Casey, the wife of the
former CIA Director, now deceased, bill Casey; and their
daughter, Bernadette Smith. She is joining us in just a moment.
I first want you to know that we sent the following
telegram to Robert Woodwer -- Woodward. I beg your pardon. Mr.
Bob Woodward. It says, "Dear Mr. Woodward. We are offering you
a chance to respond to the charges made by Mrs. Casey on national
television. We feel it is proper and American. The legacy of a
man's life is on the line. You have destroyed it." It's signed,
"Sincerely, The Staff of the Morton Downey, Jr. Show."
Mr. Woodward declined. That is typical of Bob Woodward.
Now, for those of you -- for those of you who don't know
who Bill Casey is, you've been living inside of a light bulb all
your life. Right?
[Laughter]
We are going to introduce you now to Mrs. William Casey
and their daughter, Bernadette Smith.
Would you please enter, Mrs. Casey.
[Applause]
DOWNEY: Mrs. Casey, before tonight is through, I hope
in the minds of all patriotic-thinking Americans we have cleared
any of the false accusations that have been placed upon your
OFFICES IN: WASHINGTON D.C. ? NEW YORK ? LOS ANGELES ? CHICAGO ? DETROIT ? AND OTHER PRINCIPAL CITIES
Material supplied by Radio N Reports, Inc may be used for fire and reference Purposes only It may not be reproduced. sold or publicly aemonsttoted or exhibited.
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beloved husband's head. It's intersting that they had to wait
until he was dead before they did this, not having the courage to
do it to the man while he was alive
DOWNEY: According to Bob Woodward, your husband, who is
renowned for his distrust of the media, granted more than 48
interviews and had many conversations with Woodward between 1983
and 1987. Do you remember any of those?
MRS. CASEY: No, I don't remember them at all.
DOWNEY: What kind of a dad was your dad, Bernadette?
BERNADETTE SMITH: Dad was my best friend. He was an
incredible person. He was kind of a Renaissance man. He loved
his country. He loved history. He was involved involved in
everything. We have a library that's incredibly extensive. His
greatest line was, "The best part of writing a book is doing the
investigation." And he would do all the reading.
He would never, ever do anything to destroy our country.
And I think that's what Bob Woodward tried to do -- is trying to
do with this book.
DOWNEY: Mrs. Casey, this is a terrible thing to ask
you. But was he a good husband?
MRS. CASEY: Oh, he was a wonderful husband. Yes.
DOWNEY: No regrets?
MRS. CASEY: No regrets. He was just wonderful.
DOWNEY: Ever beat you?
[Laughter]
DOWNEY: Well, I mean the man's been made out to be a
monster by Bob Woodward.
MRS. CASEY: Well, he may have been a tighter outside,
but he was a lamb in the house.
DOWNEY: Was he?
MRS. CASEY: Yeah. Really was.
DOWNEY: What kind of, what kind of -- Bernadette, what
kind of activities did your dad like to be involved in? I know
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he loved his country. I know he believed in the job that he was
doing. Did he bring the job home with him? Did he talk about it
at home?
MRS. SMITH: Not really. Not even when he was a lawyer.
When he got home he rested. He would read. He would love to go
out to dinner, or mom -- he told mom that he taught her how to
cook, because he took her to all of...
DOWNEY: I taught my wife how to cook. I understand.
MRS. SMITH: So he took her to good restaurants.
So he liked -- he loved the family. He was really a
family person. He loved the extensive family. We lived with his
mother when she was alive, and my mother's parents, had family
and people around. He could go in the corner with people around
and read a book and not be disturbed by people.
DOWNEY: What kind of activities did he like to get
involved in, Mrs. Casey? I mean did he have any hobbies,
anything that every red-blooded American could identify with?
MRS. CASEY: He loved golf.
DOWNEY: Uh-huh. Yeah. Every red-blooded American
identifies with that.
MRS. CASEY: He loved golf. And -- well, that was
really the only thing he had time to do. You know, he was very,
very busy all the time. He always had meetings to go to or
socials to go to, and then he worked very hard in the...
DOWNEY: Did he take you to a lot of those meetings and
MRS. CASEY: Yes. We always went together.
DOWNEY: Did you feel he shared his life with you?
MRS. CASEY: Oh, yes. Definitely.
DOWNEY: Bernadette?
MRS. SMITH: I don't think -- I had so much of dad's
life. He would include me in parties that -- you know, if I were
in town, I went, even if I felt embarrassed about going. I was
going to meet the people that he dealt with and the people that
were important to him. It was very, very special to him. He
included me in everything. He was wonderful. He took me around
the world. I saw so much and experienced so much through his
eyes that it was just special.
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DOWNEY: How do you feel about the attacks that have
been made on your dad? Is it tough to swallow?
MRS. SMITH: Oh, I'm outraged. Yes.
DOWNEY: Are you outraged? Are you hurt? Do all of the
emotions come in here? You knew him.
MRS. SMITH: Oh, I -- well, it isn't the man I know. He
describes a reckless type of person. My father wasn't. He was
very thoughtful. He was very -- knew history, knew what he was
doing, knew -- didn't move without really knowing what the
ramifications were going to be.
DOWNEY: Let me give you this statement from Woodward,
all right?
DOWNEY: "Casey found Reagan strange and was struck by
Reagan's overall passivity about his job and his approach to
life."
Mrs. Casey, have you ever in your married life, as long
as your husband, Bill, was a friend of Ronald Reagan's, have you
ever heard him allude to anything like that about Ronald Reagan?
MRS. CASEY: Never. That was -- Bob Woodward put those
words in Bill Casey's mouth. And I was outraged when I heard
them. Bill held Ronald Reagan in very high esteem. He helped to
elect him.
DOWNEY: He served him as campaign manager, actually,
didn't he?
MRS. CASEY: Yes, he did. And he always found him to be
a wonderful fellow. And when talked about him, he'd always say
his ideas were so good and, "I'm here to help him get them in
practice." So, he held him in high esteem.
That was such a ridiculous thing to say.
DOWNEY: We're going to go through more of this, all
right? And we're going to meet an ex-agent in just a few minutes
and some other people, some other friends of Bill Casey's.
We're going to ask the people at home if they'd like to
call and talk with Mrs. Casey or with Bernadette Smith, by all
means give us a call at 1-800-962-TALK.
If you're waiting for me to walk off the edge of a cliff
tonight, folks, it might not happen. All right? I happen to be
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very dedicated to these kind of Americans.
We'll be back in just a moment on the Morton Downey, Jr.
DOWNEY: Our guest in studio tonight for an exclusive
interivew is a lovely American family, my friends, Mrs. Sophia
Casey and her daughter Bernadette Smith, sitting with us.
Mrs. Casey, I'm going to give you a couple of other
quotes from the Bob Woodward book. All right?
DOWNEY: "Casey said the President probably had no real
friends other than Nancy." Your husband said that?
MRS. CASEY: Oh, that's -- of course not. That's
ridiculous.
DOWNEY: You know, it's so amazing. If nothing else in
the world would destroy the validity of this book, a statement
such as that of a man like Ronald Reagan -- all right? -- who has
spent his life having good friends. I can name a number of them
that I know personnally -- could be accused of having no real
friends other than his wife.
And incidentally, there's nothing wrong with having your
wife as your best friend. My wife is my best friend.
[Applause]
DOWNEY: In the book, the line -- and I find this
interesting that this book didn't get released until Casey was
dead. The book was completed. There was no real thread to make
it worthwhile as a sales item until Bill Casey died. And then,
at the last minute, Bob Woodward, through another one of his
unnamed sources -- and God, don't we remember his unnamed sources
from the past -- Bob Woodward supposedly said that Casey
indicated with a nod, after brain surgery, that he had known
about the diversions of funds. He said, "I believed."
Now, you were with your husband every day.
You were with your dad every day.
Did you see Bob Woodward? Did you see anyone disguised
as an intern that you didn't know come in? Did you see anyone
that you did not know in the room with your husband?
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MRS. CASEY: Never. Never. I never saw anybody.
DOWNEY: Can you be sure that Bob Woodward did not get
MRS. CASEY: I'm sure he never got into the room.
DOWNEY: Bernadette?
MRS. CASEY: He got into the hospital on January 22nd,
but he never got into the room. Security saw him and chased him.
DOWNEY: Security saw him and chased him.
MRS. CASEY: Uh-huh.
DOWNEY: Bernadette?
MRS. SMITH: In that instance, he said he showed his
credentials. He first tried to push his way in. Then he said,
"I'm a friend of the family."
And they said, "No."
And then he said, "Well, I'm Bob Woodward."
And they said, "I'm sorry. That doesn't make any
difference."
And then finally he did show his credentials.
There was no way. We were there. We weren't there for
security. We had 24-hour security, four men at each -- I think
it was three different shifts, around the clock. And there was
always four or five men there. There was always someone at the
door.
We just happened to be there because we wanted to be
with dad. But there was no way, absolutely no way. We were
there.
DOWNEY: Would your husband -- would your husband --
your father -- in any way, be involved in killing heads of state?
Is that the man that you knew?
MRS. CASEY: I know Bob Woodward has that in the book,
but he doesn't understand it. He doesn't understand the
situation at all. It was a covert action, which he doesn't
understand and he doesn't -- he blames it all on my husband. But
that's ridiculous.
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MRS. SMITH: Well, first of all, it never happened that
way. I've heard that. The story is reported completely wrong.
Dad would never break a law of the land. It just was not in his
nature. Covert action is collecting information. That's very
important for our national security. But he's not going to go
around killing people, especially heads -- I mean anyone, not
even -- it just is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.
DOWNEY: Let's break here for a second and see if we can
involve our audience, anyone in our audience who wants to have
some comments.
Young man.
MAN: Yeah. I read Mr. Woodward's fairy tale, and it
reminded me of Mother Goose. You know, it's great. He had no
substantiation in any part of that book. It's great to accuse
someone of something when they're not around to defend
themselves.
I personally think that your husband, and your dad, was
a great American, a great patriot. He did one hell of a job for
this country. And to turn around and try to rip him apart just
to put some bucks in his own pocket, Mr. Woodward should be taken
and ripped apart and rip that money out.
If he could substantiate anything, if he really got into
that hospital room and spoke to your dad, he'd have no problem
sitting on this stage with Mr. Downey and yourselves and proving
it. The proof is he did not, he would not, and he didn't have
the guts to come down here.
[Applause]
DOWNEY: My staff has put together a great deal of
research. Now, I know -- I know you're watching at home, Bob
Woodward. All right? Because I know you want to figure out how
you can take this and turn this into some more bucks for
yourself. A great deal of research has been done by my staff,
who I might add are all libeals. All right? They don't hold my
same political persuasions. Here's what they've turned up:
In "The Final Days," all right? That's a book by
Woodward and Bernstein. The book described a meeting between
Richard Nixon and former Cabinet officer Robert Finch, who I
believe was from California. It turned out later that neither
author had interviewed Finch at all, had never spoken to Finch.
Those are the words of Finch. All right?
Let's go on.
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William Safire, not noted for being a wild-eyed conser-
vative. All right? He's a columnist for the New York Times. He
nailed Woodward and Bernstein for a totally inaccurate involve-
ment of an account of a dinner conversation involving himself.
He says he is certain of that because he made notes of the entire
conversation.
Dr. Walter Tkach. All right? He was the White House
doctor during the Nixon Administration. Responding to a
Woodward-Bernstein report quoting him as saying, "Mrs. Nixon was
becoming more and more reclusive and drinking heavily, "Dr.
Tkach said, "I am infuriated. And I can assure you that what
they have published about Mrs. Nixon is absolute nonsense. But
what can you do about irresponsible young journalists who have
absolutely no regard for the truth?"
Neither author had talked to Dr. Tkach.
Oh, I know we've got to get going here. But I've got
some more information I want to pass on.
John Osborne. All right? He covered the White House
for the liberal New Republic -- said of "The Final Days": "It,
on the whole, is the worst job of nationally-noted reporting that
I've observed in 49 years in this business. Woodward's alleged
commitment to careful checking was blown sky-high in the Janet
Cooke case."
Do you remember this? This is the young lady who won
the Pulitzer Prize for the Washington Post, which is Mr.
Woodward's paper. She won the Pulitzer Prize for this, and later
admitted it was all a false story she had created. Woodward was
her editor and was supposed to check out the facts. He checked
them out, found out she was telling the truth. She admitted it
was a lie.
Here is a guy whose informants are always unnamed. We
had Deep Throat. We all remember Deep Throat. We're not talking
about Linda Lovelace, either. All right? We had Deep Throat.
And what about in Deep Throat? They always gave just enough
information so that everyone started guessing who Deep Throat
could be. And they kept that going for years and sold the book
like crazy. Deep Throat has never surfaced.
Now, you tell me, if you were Deep Throat, would you
write your own book and make $15 million like that [snaps
fingers]? Damn right you would.
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We'll be right back. And listen, we're going to take a
look at Woodward through the eyes of a former CIA agent.
DOWNEY: We have enumerated some of the imaginations and
imaginings of Bob Woodward, the author of many best-selling
books. I have read all of them, with the exception of this one,
because I don't intend to put another dime into this guy's
pocket. And God knows he's become a multimillionaire on the
backs of other people through his lack of talent, but his obvious
propensity for telling a lie.
We have with us John Greaney, who is the Executive
Director of the Association of Former Intelligence Agents, also a
CIA agent for 15 years, and an attorney for a good number of
years.
John, good evening to you, sir.
JOHN GREANEY: Good evening, Morton. Nice to be here.
DOWNEY: Nice to have you with us.
[Applause]
DOWNEY: I don't want to make any mistakes on this show.
All right? I'm sure Bob Woodward would love to be able to have
me into a lawsuit. All right. So I want to make sure I have
everything down pat.
GREANEY: Please go ahead.
DOWNEY: I want to ask you some questions.
GREANEY: Please go ahead.
DOWNEY: You've read Woodward's book.
GREANEY: Yes, I have.
DOWNEY: What's your honest opinion?
GREANEY: I think it's false. I agree with Mrs. Casey.
It lacks veracity and truth. And also, the Bernadette statement
was very true, that intelligence is the front line of national
defense for our national security. And I'd like to comment on
what is one of the most damaging aspects of this book, in the way
the lies come out. And that is that it embarrasses the United
States, particularly with its allies, around the world. And we
need the support of the free countries of the world in the
intelligence business. There's a great deal of liaison that's
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necessary to go on. And Bob Woodward has denigrated the CIA with
these lies in such a way that it makes the conduct of future
business very difficult. And that's damaging to the security of
the United States.
DOWNEY: Isn't it interesting when you take a look at
Bob Woodward's history? His history indicates an attempt to
damage each and every section of our government. He went after
the Supreme Court. He went rightfully after Nixon, probably
with erroneous information. But I'll say he went rightfully
after President Nixon. And now he goes after our intelligence
agency, the CIA, through the guise of an imagined talk with a man
who was dying of a brain tumor.
GREANEY: Well, I think on that aspect, I think there's
a point that hasn't been covered that is worth considering. And
that is that I think the Washington Post comes in for some major
criticism, as well. And that relates to ethics in journalism.
The media are very quick to jump on people. For example, they
jumped on Gary Hart. They jumped on Joe Biden.
DOWNEY: Well, they jumped on them for jumping on people
[Applause]
GREANEY: The very point that you make about Bob
Woodward's alleged interview with Mr. Casey in the hospital room.
If in fact that had taken place, that was significant information
which certainly should have been published and certainly should
have been given to the Iran-Contra investigating committee, not
wait until you're going to sell books and use it as the main
intrigue for the sale of the books.
DOWNEY: Very good point.
GREANEY: And I think that ethics were involved.
DOWNEY: I think you're absolutely right.
Do you think that anything will ever happen to Bob
Woodward that will allow the name of Bill Casey to be cleared?
Do you feel Bill Casey's name is really cleared in the minds of
Americans who can hear a show like this, who can watch a program
like this, and who can discern for themselves what the truth is?
They don't have to be pounded by me or you or anyone else.
GREANEY: Well, fortunately, I'd like to say that I
didn't work for Mr. Casey, but I knew Mr. Casey through our
association. He was on the board of directors of our association
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before he became DCI. And I think people recognize the good that
he did for this country. He was a tremendous leader and in-
stilled a great sense of confidence and ability in the intelli-
gence community. Not only CIA, but the entire intelligence
community. And he was a leader and recognized as a leader in the
Free World.
And I think that reputation is going to stand up. I
don't think -- I think Bob Woodward is a transient.
DOWNEY: I think Bill Casey would have done anything
that was required of him to protect the security of this nation,
feeling that he was protecting all of the citizens, not just
those with money, not just those without money, but all of our
citizens. And I think Bob Woodward has committed a grievous
error in assuming that the American people are so naive and so
stupid that they're going to buy the story that is in the book.
Do yourself a favor. Read the excerpts. Don't put a
dime into his book. It'll be excerpted all over the place
because he's like the old rock-and-roll days. I mean you'd have
rock-and-roll groups appearing six places in one night, and they
were all supposed to be originals. Woodward is not an original.
Nothing he's ever done is original. Woodward is a liar.
[Applause]
DOWNEY: I'd like to poll our audience. In your
loudest voices, yea or nay. Have we proven that Bob Woodward is
a liar? All in favor say yea.
[Shouts of "yea"]
DOWNEY: All opposed say nay]
[No "nays"]
DOWNEY: Mrs. Casey, Bernadette Smith, thank you. Thank
you for what you gave us in Bill Casey. Thank you for what you
gave us tonight.
MRS. CASEY: Thank you.
DOWNEY: Do you think Bill Casey is an honest man?
MRS. CASEY: Oh, yes.
DOWNEY: Do you think Bob Woodward is a liar?
MRS. CASEY: Yes, I do.
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DOWNEY: Bernadette?
MRS. SMITH: He's a liar, and he knows he's a liar.
DOWNEY: And that's what makes it great.
Bob Woodward, you're sitting at home. You know you're a
[Cheers]
We'll be right back and we're going to talk about
smoking....
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