NOMINATION OF VICE ADMIRAL RUFUS L. TAYLOR AND MISCELLANEOUS BILLS

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STAT
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NOMINATION OF VICE ADMIRAL RUFUS L. TAYLOR
AND MISCELLANEOUS BILLS
HEARING
COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES
UNITED STATES SENATE
EIGHTY-NINTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
ON
NOMINATION OF VICE ADMIRAL RUFUS L. TAYLOR, USN,
TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE
H.R. 266
TO AMEND SECTIONS 404 AND 406 OF TITLE 37, UNITED
STATES CODE, RELATING TO TRAVEL AND TRANSPORTA-
TION ALLOWANCES OF CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE
UNIFORMED SERVICES WHO ARE RETIRED, DISCHARGED,
OR RELEASED FROM ACTIVE DUTY
H.R. 5297
TO AMEND TITLE 10, UNITED STATES CODE, TO LIMIT THE
REVOCATION OF RETIRED PAY OF MEMBERS OF THE
ARMED FORCES, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES
H.R. 15748
TO AMEND TITLE 10, UNITED STATES CODE, TO AUTHOR-
IZE A SPECIAL THIRTY-DAY PERIOD OF LEAVE FOR A
MEMBER OF A UNIFORMED SERVICE WHO VOLUNTARILY
EXPENDS HIS TOUR OF DUTY IN A HOSTILE FIRE AREA
H.R. 17119
TO AMEND TITLE 10, UNITED STATES CODE, TO PERMIT
MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES TO BE ASSIGNED OR
DETAILED TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE SERVICES
ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
70-051 WASHINGTON : 1960
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COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES
RICHARD B. RUSSELL, Georgia, Chairman
JOHN STENNIS, Mississippi LEVERETT SALTONSTALL, Massachusetts
STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri MARGARET CHASE SMITH, Maine
HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington STROM THURMOND, South Carolina
SAM J. ERVIN, JR., North Carolina JACK MILLER, Iowa
HOWARD W. CANNON, Nevada JOHN G. TOWER, Texas
ROBERT C. BYRD, West Virginia
STEPHEN M. YOUNG, Ohio
DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii
THOMAS J. McINTYRE, New Hampshire
DANIEL B. BREWSTER, Maryland
HARRY F. BYRD, JR., Virginia
WILLIAM H. DARDEN, Chief Of Staff
CHARLES B. KIRBOW, Chief Clerk
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CONTENTS
Statements of-
Vice Adm. Rufus L. Taylor, USN, nominee for Deputy Director of Page
Central Intelligence------------------------------------------ 2
I1.11.266-------------------------- 16
Col. Alfred R. Grimm, Directorate of Personnel Planning, Depart-
ment of the Air Force--------------------------------------- 17
11.11.5297------------------------- 19
Capt. J. W. Darroch, Deputy Assistant Chief of Naval Personnel,
Naval Reserve and District Naval Affairs---------------------- 20
John H. Pratt, judge advocate general, Marine Corps Reserve Officers
Association------------------------------------------------- 22-
H. R. 15748------------------------ 6
Brig. Gen. William W. Berg, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
for Military Personnel Policy--------------------------------- 7
11. R. 17119------------------ 14
Col. Eugene C. St. Clair, Deputy Assistant for Weather, Office of the
Deputy Chief of Staff, Programs and Resources, Department of
Air Force--------------------------------------------------- 15
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NOMINATION OF VICE ADM. RUFUS L. TAYLOR AND
MISCELLANEOUS BILLS
U.S. SENATE,
COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,
Washington, D.C.
The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:30 a.m., in room 212,
Old Senate Office Building, Senator Richard B. Russell (chairman)
presiding.
Present: Senators Russell of Georgia, Stennis, Cannon, Young of
Ohio, Inouye, Byrd of Virginia, Saltonstall, and Thurmond.
Also present: William H. Darden, chief of staff; T. Edward Bras-
well and Gordon A. Nease, professional staff members; Charles B.
Kirbow, chief clerk.
Chairman RUSSELL. The committee will come to order.
The first matter on the agenda this morning is the nomination of
Vice Adm. Rufus L. Taylor to be Deputy Director of Central In-
telligence.
This nomination has been pending before the committee for the
required period.
In keeping with our precedent, Admiral Taylor has been requested
to make a personal appearance.
Admiral, we welcome you before the committee and congratulate
you on your selection to fill this very vital position.
Members of the committee have before them your biography, but
we will ask you to give us an oral summary of your background and
experience before propounding any questions.
(The nomination reference and biography of Vice Adm. Rufus L.
Taylor follow:)
IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,
SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,
September 20, 1966.
Ordered, That the following nomination be referred to the Com-
mittee on Armed Services:
Vice Admiral Rufus L. Taylor, United States Navy, to
be Deputy Director of Central Intelligence.
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VICE ADMIRAL RUFUS L. TAYLOR, U.S. NAVY
Rufus Lackland Taylor was born in St. Louis, Missouri, on January 6, 1910,
son of Mrs. Caroline Newman Taylor and the late Rufus L. Taylor. He attended
Soldan High School in St. Louis, Missouri, Holderness School in Plymouth, New
Hampshire, and Hall's School, Columbia, Missouri, before entering the U.S.
Naval Academy, August 25, 1929. He was graduated on June 1, 1933. He
attained the rank of Vice Admiral on June 1, 1966.
After graduation he was attached to the Sixth Naval Reserve Area at St.
Louis and later served aboard the USS ARIZONA and the USS PRESTON
(DD-379).
From September 1938 to September 1941, he was a student of the Japanese
language at the American Embassy, Tokyo, Japan. He was then posted to the
Sixteenth Naval District Headquarters at Cavite, Philippine Islands, for duty as
a Communications Officer. After the United States troops at Bataan had sur-
rendered to the Japanese, he was sent to Australia, and from April 1942 until
February 1943 served on the Staff of the Commander Allied Naval Forces, South-
western Pacific.
Returning to the United States, he served from March 1943 to November 1944
in the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, Navy Department, Washington,
D.C. Again ordered to the Pacific in December 1944, lie served throughout the
remaining period of the War at Headquarters, Fourteenth Naval District, Pearl
Harbor.
Ile was attached to the General Headquarters, U.S. Army Forces, Pacific, in
August 1945, and was included in the first contingent of U.S. Forces to enter
Japan after the capitulation of the Japanese. He remained in Japan with the
Occupation Forces from August to November 1945.
He returned to the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations in November 1945,
where he served until June 1946. He was then assigned to the Central Intelligence
Group until transferred as a student to the Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk,
Virginia, in February 1947. He commanded the USS NOA (DD-841), from
June 1947 to April 1948. In May of that year he was transferred to duty in the
Office of Naval Intelligence, where he remained until November 1951, when he
became Assistant Head of the Security Branch, Communications Division
Office of the Deputy Chief of Naval Operations (Administration).
In May 1953 he was assigned to the National Security Agency Directorate,
Washington, D.C., and in December of the same year was transferred to the
Office of the Secretary of Defense. On March 17, 1955 he was ordered to duty
on the Staff of Commander Naval Forces, Far East, as Assistant Chief of Staff
for Intelligence and a year later was transferred to the Staff of Commander in
Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet, again as Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence.
From 1959 to 1963 he served in the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations,
Navy Department as Assistant Director for Foreign Intelligence, later as Deputy
Director of Naval Intelligence. On June 24, 1963 he became Assistant Chief of
Naval Operations (Intelligence) and Director of Naval Intelligence. In June,
1966, lie was appointed Deputy Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency,
Washington, D.C., and was serving in this position when he was nominated by the
President on September 20, 1966 as Deputy Director of Central Intelligence.
In addition to the Bronze Star Medal with Combat "V," the Secretary of the
Navy Commendation Medal, the Army Distinguished Unit Badge with Oak Leaf
Cluster and the Navy Unit Commendation Ribbon, Admiral Taylor has received
the American Defense Service Medal with star; Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal
with stars; American Campaign Medal; World War II Victory Medal; Navy
Occupation Service Medal, Asia Clasp; National Defense Service Medal; and the
Philippine Defense Ribbon with star.
Vice Admiral Taylor and his wife, Mrs. Karin Gerdts Taylor, have three
children: Rufus L. Taylor, III; Carol Inga Taylor; and Lisa Noel Taylor.
STATEMENT OF VICE ADM. RUFUS L. TAYLOR, USN, NOMINEE TO
BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE
Admiral TAYLOR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It is certainly an honor to be here.
As you can see from by biography, I graduated from the class of
1933, and my first assignment was to the U.S.S. Arizona. I stayed
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with the Arizona for about 2 years and then was transferred to a new
destroyer then fitting out, what we called in those days the gold
platers, 1,500-ton ships, the Preston, No. 379.
I stayed with the Preston until 1938, when I was transferred to
Japan as a naval language officer.
I spent 3 years in Japan studying the Japanese language, and people,
culture, and customs.
I was transferred from there to the Philippines and was in the Philip-
pines at the start of the war.
I remained there until the night of the surrender in Bataan, when I
was able to be evacuated from the Philippines in a submarine which
fortuitously had come in there and people in my unit had been given
orders to evacuate on that ship if we could meet up with it, which we
did.
From there, I was attached to the destroyer Bulmar for a short
period of time in western Australia, and then to Allied Naval Forces
staff at Melbourne where I served in the Intelligence Division.
I was then transferred back to Washington, where I spent about a
year, and then back to the Pacific Fleet where I was attached to the
14th Naval District in a unit operating under commander in chief,
Pacific headquarters.
The rest of the war I spent with that unit with the exception of the
fact that at the end of hostilities I was assigned to supreme head-
quarters, allied commander, with the occupation of Japan, General
MacArthur's command, along with a group of Army and Navy officers.
I went back into Japan almost exactly 4 years to the day since I had
left it, just prior to the war, with the group to which I was attached.
After serving in Japan, I then came back to Washington for it short
tour and was subsequently assigned to the Communications Division.
At that time I was asked to take a job in a liaison detachment which
was then forming in the Central Intelligence group. For a period of
time, I was head of what was called the Advisory Council of the
Central Intelligence Group under General Vandenberg.
From there, I went to the Armed Forces Staff College, and after
graduation from the Armed Forces Staff College I took command of a
destroyer, the Noa. The Noa was the undersea warfare training ship
at Key West.
I had hardly been on the Noa 8 or 9 months, just short of a year,
when I was asked for again in Washington, on an intelligence assign-
ment, which I accepted, and I went to head what they then called the
Special Operational Intelligence Unit.
I served in that unit for 3 years, and then was made Assistant
Director of the Naval Security Group with headquarters on Nebraska
Avenue.
After serving there it short period of time, I was asked to take the
position of Executive Secretary of the newly forming USCIB, which
I did, and served there for 2 years, reporting personally to the then
Chairman, Mr. Allen Dulles.
I was then ordered to Naval Forces Far East, under Admiral
Callaghan as the intelligence officer.
I spent a year there, and then I went to the Pacific Fleet as the
intelligence officer of the Pacific Fleet where I spent 3 years.
When I returned from there, I was assigned again to the Office of
Naval Intelligence where I was first head of what they call their
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research and requirement staff, which is a staff designed to look into
the future, to see what sorts of things needed to be done to make the
intelligence business viable, and then from there I was made Assistant
Director for Foreign Intelligence. I fleeted up eventually to Deputy
Director of Naval Intelligence and had indicated a desire to retire.
To my surprise, I was selected for flag rank, and asked to take the
job of Director of Naval Intelligence, which I did.
I served as Director of Naval Intelligence from June of 1963 until
June of 1966, when I was asked to take the appointment as Deputy
Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency which I am now serving.
I have been there for 4 months.
I was born in St. Louis. My family were all born there. They
are long-time St. Louisans, but I am now a transplant to South
Carolina. I have established my legal residence in South Carolina,
Beaufort County.
Chairman RUSSELL. You have been very largely engaged in intelli-
gence work since 1942.
Admiral TAYLOR. Yes, sir; I have.
Chairman RUSSELL. Almost exclusively.
Admiral TAYLOR. Almost exclusively-except for short tours in
operational assignments.
Chairman RUSSELL. You certainly have broad experience in every
aspect of military intelligence and in conjunction with the other
sources of intelligence.
What is your concept of the objective of the Central Intelligence
Agency?
Admiral TAYLOR. My concept of it, sir, is that it is an instrument
of the Government for the purpose of assuring the coordination and
viability of all of the intelligence activities of the Government.
Chairman RUSSELL. Do you envisage it as a policymaking insti-
tution?
Admiral TAYLOR. In no way, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. Do you hold any financial interest in any
organization that does any business with the Central Intelligence
Agency?
Admiral TAYLOR. No, sir; I do not.
I should have added in my narrative that I have a financial state-
ment which I am prepared to submit. It has been examined by the
Central Intelligence Agency, and they find no conflict in it.
Chairman RUSSELL. They find no conflict of interest?
Admiral TAYLOR. That is right, sir. I am prepared to submit it.
Chairman RUSSELL. I suggest for the benefit of our files and
records that you file it. I do not want to see it, but I will ask you to
file it with the committee.
Senator Saltonstall?
Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Admiral Taylor, you certainly have a fine record.
Do I understand you to say you are now retired or
Admiral TAYLOR. No, sir; I am not retired. I am Vice Admiral
on the active list. I had indicated a desire to retire. It is partly
for that reason that I am now a resident of South Carolina, because
I have a place down there where I thought I would retire. Admiral
McDonald changed my mind about that.
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NOMINATION OF VICE ADMIRAL RUFUS L. TAYLOR 5
Senator SALTONSTALL. We have a good representative here from
South Carolina, and I am sure you have chosen your home well-if
you could not come to Massachusetts.
Admiral TAYLOR. I hope, in years to come, if I am not needed in
some capacity here, I shall be able to go down there.
Senator SALTONSTALL. Now, maybe this is incidental, Admiral,
but we have had some discussion about it in past cases.
As I read the law, the National Security Act of 1947, as amended,
you will continue to receive the pay that you are entitled to as an
admiral, and then in addition to that, you will receive from the CIA
any additional pay above what you get as an admiral for the position
that you hold.
Is that your understanding?
Admiral TAYLOR. That is my understanding, sir.
Additionally, it is my understanding, sir, that the Navy is reim-
bursed for the pay and allowances that I receive as an officer on the
active list of the Navy.
Senator SALTONSTALL. And you lose none of your rights as a Navy
admiral.
Admiral TAYLOR. I understand, sir, from the law, that insofar as
rank is concerned, none; but insofar as having any authority over any
naval activities or personnel, I have none, except as might be vested
in me as Deputy Director of Central Intelligence.
Senator SALTONSTALL. The chairman asked your conception of
policy of the CIA. I may have missed some of it. You said that it
was to coordinate all intelligence. Did I understand you correctly?
Admiral TAYLOR. Yes, sir; I said--
Senator SALTONSTALL. Doesn't it go one step further, as far as a
public hearing is concerned, that the CIA should take on intelligence
outside of our country which cannot be covered by the other agencies
of Government?
Admiral TAYLOR. Yes, sir.
Senator SALTONSTALL. That you understand also.
Admiral TAYLOR. That is my clear understanding Senator.
Senator SALTONSTALL. That is very fundamental, as I see it.
I have one other question, Admiral Taylor.
What are your personal relations with Mr. Helms, are they good?
Admiral TAYLOR. Excellent, sir. I have known him off and on,
for years, as I have known many people in the Central Intelligence
Agency. Having been in intelligence activities for a good portion of
my career, I have inevitably come in contact with many of the key
people in the CIA, and I have the utmost regard and admiration for
them.
Senator SALTONSTALL. So, you are confident you can work with
hini Nvlioleheartedly?
Admiral TAYLOR. Without question, sir. Nothing would delight
me more than to work for him.
Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Stennis.
Senator STENNIS. Admiral Taylor, you stated your concept of
the policy. Now, in the absence of the Director, you of course, will
be the head man and Acting Director.
What is your idea about the publicity, handling of matters with
reference to CIA?
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I am not talking about the ultrasecret matters. But what is your
idea of public relations?
Admiral TAYLOR. My view, sir
Senator STE . , is. That is on the status of the CIA.
Admiral TAYLOR. My view, sir, in response to that question, is
that any intelligence organization suffers from too much publicity,
and a maximum degree of anonymity is desirable.
Senator STENNIS. Well, isn't it true that you suffer from any degree
of publicity?
You say "suffers from too much." But any appreciable publicity
at all mitigates as a whole against you, doesn't it? Isn't that right?
Admiral TAYLOR. Yes, sir; I think it is most unhelpful.
Senator STENNIS. Most-what?
Admiral TAYLOR. Most unhelpful.
Senator STENNIS. Well, of course, your position would be to hold it
to an absolute minimum; is that right?
Admiral TAYLOR. It would, indeed, sir.
Senator STENNIS. I notice, Admiral, that on June 24, 1963, you
became Assistant Chief of Naval Operations Intelligence and Director
of Naval Intelligence. Did you hold that until June 1966?
Admiral TAYLOR. Yes, sir, I did.
Senator STENNIS. I have nothing further.
Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Young.
Senator YOUNG. I have no questions.
Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Thurmond.
Senator THURMOND. Admiral Taylor, I want to commend you for
two things: (1) on your magnificent record in the Navy, and (2) a
man cannot choose his place of birth, but he can choose his place of
residence, and in this you have shown profound wisdom.
I just want to say that I think we are fortunate to have a gentleman
like you join the CIA, which I feel is a very important agency of the
Government, and I predict there you will render outstanding service
to your country, after which you can then return to the wholesome
section of South Carolina in Beaufort County.
Admiral TAYLOR. Thank you.
Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Inouye?
Senator INOUYE. I have no questions.
Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you very much, Admiral.
Admiral TAYLOR. Thank you very much, sir.
It has been an honor to appear here.
(The nomination of Vice Admiral Taylor, U.S. Navy, to be Deputy
Director of Central Intelligence was subsequently approved by the
committee in executive session and confirmed by the Senate on
October 7, 1966.)
Chairman RUSSELL. The first legislative matter on the agenda is
H.R. 15748, a bill sponsored by the Department of Defense that
would authorize a 30-day leave and roundtrip transportation to the
United States or to another place of his choice for a member of the
Armed Forces who agreed to extend his service in Vietnam for 6
months.
(H.R. 15748 follows:)
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(H. R. 15748, 89th Cong., 2d sess.]
AN ACT To amend title 10, United States Code, to authorize a special thirty-day period of leave for a
member of a uniformed service who voluntarily extends his tour of duty in a hostile fire area
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of
America in Congress assembled, That section 703 of title 10, United States Code, is
amended by inserting the designation "(a)" before "Leave" and by adding the
following new subsection:
"(b) Under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Defense, and notwith-
standing subsection (a), a member who is on active duty in an area described in
section 310(a) (2) of title 37 and who, by reenlist, lnent, extension of enlistment,
or other voluntary action, extends his required tour of duty in that area for at
least six months may be-
"(1) authorized not more than thirty days of leave, exclusive of travel
time, at an authorized place selected by the member; and
"(2) transported at the expense of the United States to and from that
place.
Leave under this subsection may not be charged or credited to leave that accrued
or that may accrue under section 701 of this title."
Passed the House of Representatives August 1, 1966.
Attest:
RALPH R. ROBERTS,
Clerk.
Chairman RUSSELL. The witness on this bill is Brig. Gen. William
W. Berg, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Military Personnel
Policy.
Be seated, General.
Give us a brief statement with respect to this bill, and why is it
desirable.
STATEMENT OF BRIG. GEN. WILLIAM W. BERG, DEPUTY ASSIST-
ANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR MILITARY PERSONNEL
POLICY
General BERG. Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. I
am Brig. Gen. William W. Berg, Deputy Assistant Secretary of
Defense for Manpower.
The Department of Defense appreciates the consideration of H.R.
15748 by the committee. This bill is a recently added item in the
Department of Defense legislative program for the 89th Congress.
We consider that its enactment would provide an immediate beneficial
effect on the effectiveness of our forces in Vietnam.
The standard tour of duty for military personnel in Vietnam is but
12 months. I am sure it seems extremely long to those serving there,
but a lesser period would seriously reduce the period of actual effec-
tiveness in the area. There would be valuable gains in effectiveness
in longer tours. Nevertheless, we consider, and General Westmore-
land emphatically agrees, that an involuntary increase in this tour
would be inequitable and destructive of morale.
General Westmoreland on several occasions has given his views on
the tour length. In recent months he has reiterated that the normal
12-month tour is essential to combat efficiency, health, and morale,
and that except for the most senior officers any extensions should be
entirely voluntary. He has observed that the increase in intensity
in combat and the large numbers of personnel living under austere
field conditions which have resulted from developments in the past
year compound the effects of a severe tropical climate and other
hardships inherent in the environment.
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Accordingly, the intent of H.R. 15748 is to provide persons cur-
rently serving in Vietnam an incentive to voluntarily extend their
tour of duty. The bill provides that military personnel who volun-
tarily take action which effectively extends their tour of duty in an
area in which hostile fire pay is payable could be granted leave and
transportation for a 30-day break in that duty. Under present stat-
utes we have no authority to provide the transportation, and both
leave and travel time would be chargeable to leave earned by the
usual formula.
Not all of the personnel assigned to Vietnam are subject to the
standard tour. In the case of unit moves the detachment of all
individuals with less than 12 months of obligated service in antici-
pation of the move would have seriously affected unit effectiveness.
Hence, there are some individuals who went to Vietnam in unit
deployments who must be returned earlier than the completion of a
1-year tour, because of expiration of their service contract. In these
cases, reenlistment or extension of enlistment while in Vietnam would
be a very significant contribution to the operations and would provide
valuable continuity in certain assignments.
We have information from our senior commanders in Vietnam that
a number of individuals would volunt?er to serve longer than the
required period of service in Vietnam, because of personal dedication
to the mission, if the period of service could be broken into reasonable
segments. Service in the area is indeed remote from home and fami-
liar community life, under conditions that include a high degree of
physical discomfort as well as hazard. H.R. 15748 would make it
possible to provide an interruption that would make a longer tour
acceptable to these highly motivated men.
It is not possible to estimate the numbers of men who would qualify
for this leave. Realistically, the special leave would be an incentive
only for those men who truly desire to continue in the duty. Return
to the United States-with an opportunity to take leave-occurs
normally at the expiration of the required tour. We believe that the
value of the proposal rests on the quality of the results rather than
on numerical magnitude. We would hope that it would interest the
man in a position of leadership, the man who has become personally
interested in the Vietnamese struggle, and the man whose duties have
created a personal rapport with the Vietnamese people in civic as
well as military actions. The effect of having such men for longer
service would be far out of proportion to the mere numbers involved.
Theoretically, the longer tours would have some effect on the re-
quirements for replacements and, hence, would result in some savings
to effect the out-of-pocket costs for the leave and transportation.
We do not advance this as an argument for the proposal. The possi-
bility of substantial changes in force levels and force composition
would make it impossible to demonstrate either the amount or validity
of any such offsets. The value of the proposal is not in savings
achieved, but rather in effectiveness attained.
The bill requires that the Secretary of Defense prescribe the regu-
lations for administration of the benefit authorized by H.R. 15748.
These regulations now are in preparation. I can assure you that they
will adhere to the purpose of the legislation, with a minimum of ad-
ministrative detail. This purpose can be simply stated : to give
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these men who volunteer a relief from arduous duty in consideration
of their extended commitments. Thank you, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. Well, gentlemen, there is not too much we
can do with a bill of this nature, except report it.
I have certain misgivings about this type of legislation. Those
hostile fire areas include all the men serving on all the ships at sea in
that area, do they not?
General BERG. It includes the Navy people who are actually
assigned to Vietnam, and that does include the smaller ships, sir, but
it does not include the people in the 7th Fleet.
Chairman RUSSELL. How about a carrier that is operating offshore?
General BERG. It would not include them, sir. They are not over
there under any standard tour.
Chairman RUSSELL. You mean a man flying an airplane off a
carrier is not considered in hostile fire?
General BERG. Yes, sir, he is in hostile fire area; he draws hostile
fire pay. He also gets the income tax exclusion, but he is attached to
the ship, and he may be in there a period of 3 or 4 months and then go
off to one of the areas in the local area and then come back in again,
but he is not there for a prescribed 1-year tour.
Chairman RUSSELL. So, he would not benefit from this bill.
General BERG. That is correct.
Chairman RUSSELL. But a man serving on the ground, in the ground
forces of the Air Force up in Thailand would be included.
General BERG. Not in Thailand, because that is not a hostile fire
area, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. How about the people flying out of Thailand?
General BERG. It does not cover them, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. Well, it is a mighty bad bill. It is worse than
I thought. You mean, a man flying a plane to attack the North
Vietnamese and Vietcong out of Thailand is not considered covered
by the hostile-well, I will not press you on that. I am reminded
that it is supposed to be classified information, although the Assistant
Secretary of Defense testified about it in open hearings before the
Foreign Relations Committee a few days ago.
General BERG. Those people do receive hostile fire pay.
Chairman RUSSELL. Yes.
Well, how about a man that is working in an office in Saigon?
General BERG. Any person who is stationed in Vietnam or in the
waters within a 12-mile limit, I think it is, where the tour is precisely
1 year, would be covered by this bill.
Chairman RUSSELL. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the
400,000 people we have over there are not engaged in combat at any
time, and they will benefit by this just as much as the man who stays
up there in the rice paddy, getting shot at all day. But, as I say,
we have never been able to get the Department of Defense to under-
take to define a combat troop, a combat soldier. They say they
cannot. We will have to take it as it is.
Senator Saltonstall?
Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, following up what you have
said.
General, I have just been reading section 310(a) subparagraph 2,
which reads :
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was on duty in an area in which he was in imminent danger of being exposed to
hostile fire or exposed to hostile mines and in which during the period he was on
duty in that area other members of the uniformed services were subject to hostile
fire or explosion of hostile mines.
Now, if you will read that, and follow up what the chairman has
said about a man up in an airplane, even if he may be based on a
carrier, why isn't he subject to hostile fire within that section?
General BERG. Senator Saltonstall, he does receive hostile fire pay.
But the bill says a man who is assigned in an area. He goes in and out
of there, and each day he goes in he does qualify for and receives the
hostile fire pay.
Senator SALTONSTALL. Well, the bill says "a member who is on
active duty in an area"-"who is on active duty".
Nov, if a flyer is on active duty on a carrier, and his responsibil-
ity is to bomb a certain area and he is shot down or shot at, I would
think he was included within that section, or the bill should be
amended so that he was included.
Chairman RUSSELL. I understand the general's point was he did
not stay there for 12 months.
Is that right, General?
General BERG. Yes, sir; he is not under that tour.
As a matter of fact, Senator Saltonstall, if I might say: The people
that are flying missions over there, if they are stationed in Vietnam,
they do not even come under the standard 12-month tour as a general
rule.
Senator SALTONSTALL. How about a helicopter pilot?
General BERG. I am not sure about the helicopter pilots in the
Army, but as a general rule there are a number of missions that are
prescribed when a tour ends, particularly the pilots who are going
to bomb in North Vietnam.
Senator SALTONSTALL. Well, Mr. Chairman, I would hope that the
general would perhaps do a little more research on that subject, and
see whether this bill, as it is now drafted, would cover a helicopter
pilot who may be assigned over there for 12 months, or show us some
reason why he should not include him.
General BERG. It would cover a helicopter pilot whose tour,
Senator, was covered by the 12-month period.
If he is covered by a tour which says that upon the completion
of so many missions he rotates, he would not be covered specifically
by this. But if he did volunteer, we could write the regulation
so that he could come back. As a general rule, most of those people
are not the people who are volunteering and not the people we are
seeking to volunteer.
Senator SALTONSTALL. I am informed by our experts this is a new
step in our war efforts.
Neither in World War II, nor World War I, nor in Korea have we
ever had this type of extended leave as an inducement for further
service.
Do you agree with that?
General BERG. That is correct, Senator.
Senator SALTSONSTALL. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
But I think it would be helpful if we could have a little further ex-
planation or data concerning the interpretation or how the military
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interprets that section 310(a) (2)-unless there is no doubt in your
mind. There would be doubt in my mind.
Chairman RUSSELL. There is no doubt in my mind as to what that
section says. The thing that confuses me is the application of it to
for illustration, naval pilots who are posted in the area for 4 months
and then go out and then come back after 2 months and stay for 4
more months. They break their 12-month continuity. Some of them
have not had leave for a long time, 13 or 14 months, back home. But
they would not be entitled to this extra month of leave, because the
ship was not stationed there for as long as 12 months at one time, if
I understand General Berg.
General BERG. That is right, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. Well, that is a very serious defect in the bill,
Sentor.
Senator Stennis?
Senator STENNIS. Could you give us an estimate of about how
many men this would apply to, or what percent of those that are
over there?
General BERG. The only figure we ever received, Senator Stennis,
was an informal estimate by General Walt at one time that of his
force, of the Marine force, he thought that as many as 20 percent of
that force would volunteer to serve an additional length of time in
Vietnam. That is the only estimate we have had.
Senator STENNIS. All right. What percent of those who are on
the mainland would be, you think, eligible for this bill?
General BERG. Well, technically, all would be, all 300,000 of them.
Senator STENNIS. All right. That is all I have.
Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Young.
Senator YOUNG. It appears to me, General, that this is a very
inopportune time, perhaps 2 weeks before we hope to recess, or ad-
journ, and a new session of Congress convening in January-it
seems to me this is a very inopportune time to come in suddenly and
present a bill of this sort when there is not any precedent for it. I
would personally be opposed to it.
But I want to ask you, sir: This applies, as I understand it, to all
enlisted men, such as enlisted men who are doing manual labor, you
might say, at Cam Ranh Bay?
General BERG. Yes, sir.
Senator YOUNG. Far from the fighting front, really.
General BERG. Yes, sir.
Senator YOUNG. And, then, on the other hand-it can hardly be
said to be classified anymore-we know that the devastating air
raids in large part come from Thailand over North Vietnam. We
know that we are losing the lives of many precious pilots. And they
are not included in this at all-the men who help in Thailand, getting
those planes in operation. They are not included in this; is that
correct?
General BERG. That is correct, sir.
Senator YOUNG. But someone is working in an office in Saigon, in
an air-conditioned office, would be included.
General BERG. Yes, sir.
Stinator YOUNG. And also out of Guam we are daily sending very
devastating raids over those parts of Vietnam, and those airmen and
pilots would not be included under this bill.
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General BERG. That is correct, Senator. The tour in Guam, as
a matter of information, is not a 12-month tour. There are de-
pendents stationed in Guam, and the tour there is a 24-month tour.
Senator YOUNG. But in Thailand, it is a 12-month tour.
General BERG. That is correct, sir.
Senator YOUNG. And there are many enlisted men there at the
present time.
General BERG. Yes, sir, that is right.
Senator YOUNG. Thousands of them.
Don't you think, sir, that it would be desirable to have a hearing
on this, and let us hear all of the factors on it? We cannot foresee
what the situation over in southeast Asia in next January will be,
can we?
General BERG. I do not believe so, sir.
Senator YOUNG. Well, I feel, General, this committee has been very
liberal to our Armed Forces, but it seems they are always coming in
for more. I take a dim view of his bill at the present time.
No other questions.
Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Thurmond?
Senator THURMOND. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
General, let me see if I understand the bill correctly.
As I understand the purposes of the bill is not to reward for hostile
fire. That has already been done under other legislation on the books
now. This is merely to provide that if a man serves in a hostile
area for 12 months continuously then he can go back home or go
somewhere for 30 days at Government expense. Is that right?
General BERG. That is right, sir.
Senator THURMOND. In case he desires to extend his service.
General BERG. And in case the commanders over there would like
to have him back.
Senator THURMOND. And so far as hostile fire of a pilot or anyone
else is concerned, he gets that already-hostile fire pay-doesn't he?
General BERG. That is right.
Senator THURMOND. And if a pilot stays there, if anyone is stationed
there, whether it is a pilot or a helicopter pilot or ground soldier in the
rice paddies, if they are in this area for 12 months, then they will be
allowed to leave for 30 days and return at Government expense. Is
that correct?
General BERG. That is correct. As long as they volunteer to serve
at least 12 months in that same area.
Senator THURMOND. As I understand, the purpose of the bill is to
encourage people who the services desire to have back there to come
back after they have had some rest, after being there 12 months.
General BERG. We presented this bill, sir, at the express request of
General Westmoreland, it is a way to allow him to keep certain skilled
people he had over there, by virtue of allowing the to return and go
back again.
Senator THURMOND. And if the helicopter is there 12 months and
wants to return, wouldn't this bill apply to him or anyone else that
was 12 months?
General BERG. It would.
Senator THURMOND. It would apply to anybody, would it not?
General BERG. That is right.
Senator THURMOND. Air Force, Army, Marine, Navy.
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General BERG. Who is stationed in Vietnam.
Senator THURMOND. It is not a reward. A 30-day vacation is not a
reward because he has been subjected to hostile fire, because those
people are already being taken care of.
It is merely being given an opportunity to get a rest, so to speak, or
a respite, after being arduously and continuously on duty for 12
months.
General BERG. That is right.
Senator THURMOND. Thank you.
That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman RUSSELL. General, I was under the opinion that the
Navy had already extended the tour under the law that applies to
them and does not apply to the Air Force and the Army, that they
had already extended the tour out there, and not only the tour but
the time of enlistment beyond the time when a man was legally sup-
posed to be separated from the service for a period of six months.
Did you ever hear of that Act?
General BERG. Yes, sir, Senator Russell.
What the Navy did-and it applies also to the Marine Corps:
They extended the period of service, the enlistment, by as much as
4 months. But this was extended for people regardless of where they
were serving. It occurred-a lot of people were serving in the United
States, Europe, and so forth.
Chairman RUSSELL. I understand that. But nobody in the Air
Force or the Army had their period of enlistment extended, did they?
General BERG. No, sir, we did not have the authority. The Navy
was the only service that had the authority. The last of those people
leave the end of this month, Senator Russell.
Chairman RUSSELL. I did not understand-I understood that this
was in the nature of a bonus to get people to go back to Vietnam after
having served their required time.
General BERG. General Westmoreland has repeatedly said that
he would like to be able to take some small number of people who
are dedicated to their mission and whose dedication he needed and
be able to say to them, "If you will extend, we will authorize you
to go home and pay the transportation and give you the leave, and
you come back and serve an additional period of time here."
At the present time, we have given him authority to do that in
the case of 60 people in the grade of Colonel and above. The difficulty
today is that their leave, the leave they get, is chargeable to their
accrued leave, and there is no way to give them the transportation-
they come back on the space available, on a space-available basis,
which is almost nonexistent over there. He is merely trying to get
the authority here to do that-an unlimited basis.
Chairman RITSSE:,L. There have been some exceptional cases
where men have voluntarily extended their tour of duty in Vietnam
past the 12 months, have there not?
General BERG. And those people are people in the grade of Colonel
and above, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. You would not permit it for a noncom-
missioned officer?
General BERG. No, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. I had a letter from a man who must have got
caught up in some kind of a misunderstanding. He stated that he
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had volunteered and gone back to Vietnam after serving one tour
there. He was a master sergeant in the Army.
General BERG. He could have come back, Mr. Chairman, and then
volunteered to go over a second time.
Chairman RUSSELL. I see.
Senator Inouye?
Senator INOUYE. General, all of the personnel now assigned to
Vietnam are now subject to the standard tour.
General BERG. Well, they are subject to the standard tour unless
they have an enlistment contract which expires before their 12
months are up.
Senator INOUYE. What if I am one of those with an enlistment
contract that has expired. Would I come under this?
General BERG. Yes, sir, that is part of my statement. A man
who is under that circumstance, if he will reenlist right in Vietnam
then he does qualify for the leave back to the States, for transporta-
tion, and has to serve at least 6 months after he gets back.
Senator INOUYE. I have no further questions, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Byrd.
Senator BYRD of Virginia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
General, this would apply to those who reenlist for a period of
at least 6 months. Would it serve your purposes if the requirement
would be for a year instead of 6 months?
General BERG. Well, it would serve our purpose. We think that
the 6 months would, in some cases, be very helpful, where it man
might want to stay 6 months but not the year.
Senator BYRD of Virginia. No further questions, 'dlr. Chairman.
Chairman RUSSELL. If there are no further questions, we thank
you, General, for your appearance.
(Subsequently, in executive session, the committee voted to report
H.R. 15745, with an amendment, as covered by Senate Report No.
1691.)
Chairman RUSSELL. The next bill is H.R. 17119, a Department of
Defense bill, to permit members of the Armed Forces to be assigned
or detailed to the Environmental Science Services Administration
without affecting their status as members of the Armed Forces.
(H.R. 17119 follows:)
[ILR. 17119, 89th Cong., 2d sess.]
AN ACT To amend title 10, United States Code, to permit members of the armed forces to be assigned
or detailed to the Environmental Science Services Administration, Department of Commerce
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of
America in Congress assembled, That chapter 41 of title 10, United States Code, is
amended-
(1) by adding the following new section:
"? 719. Department of Commerce: assignment or detail to Environmental
Science Services Administration
"Upon the request of the Secretary of Commerce, the Secretary of a military
department may assign or detail members of the armed forces under his juris-
diction for duty in the Environmental Science Services Administration, De-
partment of Commerce, with reimbursement from the Department of Commerce.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a member so assigned or detailed
may exercise the functions, and assume the title, of any position in that Ad-
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ministration without affecting his status as a member of an armed force, but he
is not entitled to the compensation fixed for that position."; and
(2) by adding the following new item at the end of the analysis:
4'719. Department of Commerce: assignment or detail to Environmental Science Services Administration."
Passed the House of Representatives September 6, 1966.
Attest: RALPH R. ROBERTS,
Clerk.
Chairman RUSSELL. The witness is Col. Eugene C. St. Clair,
Deputy Assistant for Weather, Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff,
Programs and Resources, Department of the Air Force.
You may proceed.
STATEMENT OF COL. EUGENE C. ST. CL AIR, DEPUTY ASSISTANT
FOR WEATHER, OFFICE OF THE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF,
PROGRAMS AND RESOURCES, DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE
Colonel ST. CLAIR. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I am
Col. Eugene C. St. Clair, Deputy Assistant for Weather, Deputy
Chief of Staff, Programs and Resources, Headquarters, U.S. Air
Force.
'F'ile Department of the Air Force has been designated as the repre-
sentative of the Department of Defense for this legislation. I repre-
sent the Department of the Air Force for this purpose.
Chairman RUSSELL. Colonel, I do not see any necessity for you
reading this entire statement. This is to permit certain Air Force
personnel to work with the
Colonel ST. CLAIR. Department of Commerce.
Chairman RUSSELL. Department of Commerce, without being
detrimental to their status in the Air Force.
Colonel ST. CLAIR. Yes, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. How many people does it affect?
Colonel ST. CIAIR. Presently, we have three officers assigned there,
two Air Force and one Navy. It would apply to all of the services.
Chairman RUSSELL. Do you have any intentions of building up a
large force?
Colonel ST. CLAIR. No, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. So, it would be a very small number of people
affected by it.
Colonel ST. CLAIR. Yes, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. And this is just to protect their military status,
enabling them to serve their country in this Weather Bureau and
other special services.
Colonel ST. CLAIR. That is correct, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. That are beneficial to the armed services
likewise.
Colonel ST. CLAIR. Yes, sir. The bill would further provide for
reimbursement to the Department of Defense by the Department of
Commerce.
Chairman RUSSELL. Any questions?
(No response.)
Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you very much, Colonel.
(The prepared statement of Colonel St. Clair follows:)
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PREPARED STATEMENT OF COL. EUGENE C. ST. CLAIR
Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am Colonel Eugene C. St.
Clair, Deputy Assistant for Weather, Deputy Chief of Staff, Programs and
Resources, Headquarters, United States Air Force. The Department of the
Air Force has been designated as the representative of the Department of Defense
for this legislation. I represent the Department of the Air Force for this purpose.
The purpose of H.R. 17119 is to amend title 10, United States Code, to permit
members of the armed forces who are qualified meteorologists to be detailed to
the Environmental Science Services Administration of the Department of Com-
merce for duty with the Office of the Federal Coordinator for Meteorological
Services and Supporting Research or with the Weather Bureau.
The Office of the Federal Coordinator for Meteorological Services and Sup-
porting Research was recently established in the Department of Commerce to
implement Bureau of the Budget Circular No. A-62, November 13, 1963, entitled
"Policies and Procedures for the Coordination of Federal Meteorological Services."
The operative portions of the Circular assign the following responsibilities to
the Department of Commerce:
a. "The Department of Commerce, with the advice and assistance of other
agencies concerned, will establish procedures designed to facilitate a systematic
and continuing review of basic and specialized meteorological requirements, serv-
ices, and closely related supporting research. The Department will undertake
such reviews with the objectives of (1) establishing and reviewing, as appropriate,
needed basic services, and (2) advising other agencies on the need for and organiza-
tion of specialized services."
b. "The Department of Commerce will prepare and keep current a plan, and
obtain periodic information on its implementation, for the efficient utilization of
meteorological services and supporting research. The purpose of such planning
is to achieve the maximum integration of current and future services and re-
search consistent with the effective and economical accomplishment of mission
requirements."
Recognizing the importance of obtaining staff personnel with extensive knowl-
edge and experience in major user areas such as civil aviation and the military
services, the Department of Commerce requested the primary agencies concerned
with meteorological support to designate senior personnel to work on detail in
one or more of the staff positions under the direction of the Federal Coordinator
as a part of the permanent staff. Accordingly, since early 1964, both the Air
Force and the Navy have each had one officer detailed to the Office of the Federal
Coordinator virtually continuously. Originally, these were senior officers who
were utilized at the policy and management level. These officers have since
been replaced by less senior members whose primary function is to assist the
work of the various committees and subcommittees. Also, almost continuously
since August 1963, the Air Force has had an additional senior officer assigned
to the Department of Commerce-initially as Military Advisor to the Chief of
the Weather Bureau and, more recently, as Military Advisor to the Adminis-
trator of ESSA.
Within the foreseeable future, no increase in the number of officers assigned
to duty with the Department of Commerce is anticipated.
The legality of assigning military officers to civilian positions within that de-
partment was questioned by the General Counsel of the Department of Defense.
The enactment of this proposal will remove any doubt concerning the legal pro-
priety of such assignments. The proposed legislation would thus enable qualified
members of the armed forces to be assigned to duty with the Environmental
Science Services Administration without being subject to the restrictions of pro-
visions of law such as section 3544(b) of title 10, United States Code, which pro-
vides that a Regular Army officer vacate his appointment as such if he exercises
the function of any civil office. Additionally, it provides for reimbursing the
armed forces for officers assigned to the Department of Commerce.
I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today, and strongly urge your
favorable consideration of this legislation. Thank you for your time and atten-
tion. I shall be glad to attempt to answer any questions you may have.
(Subsequently, in executive session, the committee voted to report
H.R. 17119, without amendment, as covered by S. Rept. 1694.)
H.R. 266
Chairman RUSSELL. The next bill is H.R. 266. This bill would
permit certain retired persons to wait longer than 1 year before select-
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ing the home to which they are entitled to transportation of depend-
ents and their baggage and household effects. An existing provision
of law that the member would have to pay the cost of storing the
baggage and household effects for longer than 1 year would be con-
tinued but any period in which the member was hospitalized or under-
going medical treatment within this year would be excluded. Appar-
ently this bill is intended to permit persons to go to school or take
other training that would qualify them as teachers before selecting
the home to which they are entitled to transportation allowances.
(H.R. 266 follows:)
[H.R. 266, 89th Cong., 1st sess.]
AN ACT To amend sections 404 and 406 of title 37, United States Code, relating to travel and transporta-
tion allowances of certain members of the uniformed services who are retired, discharged, or released from
active duty.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of
America in Congress assembled, That chapter 7 of title 37, United States Code, is
amended as follows:
(1) The first sentence of section 404(c) is amended by striking out the words
after the second semicolon and inserting the following in place thereof: "may,
not later than one year from the date he is so retired, placed on that list, dis-
charged, or released, except as prescribed in regulations by the Secretaries con-
cerned, select his home for the purposes of the travel and transportation allowances
authorized by subsection (a) of this section."
(2) Section 406(d) is amended by striking out the third sentence and inserting
the following in place thereof: "The nontemporary storage of baggage and house-
hold effects may not be authorized for a period longer than one year from the date
the member concerned is separated from the service, retired, placed on the tem-
porary disability retired list, discharged, or released from active duty, except as
prescribed in regulations by the Secretaries concerned for a member who, on that
date, or at any time during the one-year period following that date, is confined in
a hospital, or is in its vicinity, undergoing medical traetment; or in the case of a
member who-
"(1) is retired, or is placed on the temporary disability retired list, under
chapter 61 of title 10; or
"(2) is retired with pay under any other law, or, immediately following at
least eight years of continuous active duty with no single break therein of
more than ninety days, is discharged with severance pay or is involuntarily
released from active duty with readjustment pay.
Except in the case of a member who, on the date of his separation, discharge, or
release, or at any time during the one-year period following that date, is confined
in a hospital or is in its vicinity, undergoing medical treatment, the cost of the
storage, for the period that exceeds one year, shall be paid by the member."
(3) The first sentence of section 406(g) is amended by striking out the words
after the second semicolon and inserting the following in place thereof: "is, not
later than one year from the date he is so retired, placed on that list, discharged,
or released, except as prescribed in regulations by the Secretaries concerned,
entitled to transportation for his dependents, baggage, and household effects to
the home selected under section 404(c) of this title."
Passed the House of Representatives September 20, 1965.
Attest: RALPH R. ROBERTS,
Clerk.
Chairman RUSSELL. The witness on this bill is Col. Alfred R. Grimm
from the Directorate of Personnel Planning, Department of the Air
Force.
STATEMENT OF COL. ALFRED R. GRIMM, DIRECTORATE OF
PERSONNEL PLANNING, DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE
Colonel GRIMM. Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee
Chairman RUSSELL. Is what I have just said a good summary of
the bill?
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Colonel GRIMM. You have summarized it very well, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. We will have your statement which elaborates
on it printed in the record.
Are there any questions?
(No response.)
Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you very much, Colonel.
(The prepared statement submitted by Colonel Grimm reads in
full as follows:)
PREPARED STATEMENT OF COL. ALFRED R. GRIMM
Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, I am Col. Alfred R. Grimm,
Chief of the Flying Status, Entitlements and Selected Policy Branch, Directorate
of Personnal Planning, Headquarters, United States Air Force.
The Department of the Air Force has been designated as the representative
of the Department of Defense for this legislation. I represent the Depart' i nt
of the Air Force for that purpose. I have with me today representatives of the
other military departments for the purpose of answering any questions that you
may have with particular reference to their service.
I have a brief prepared statement which I would like to present to the
committee.
H.R. 266 provides that a member of the uniformed services retired, discharged,
or released to inactive duty may select his home for the purposes of travel and
transportation allowances and become entitled to transportation of his depend-
ents, baggage, and household effects to the home selected within 1 year from the
date he is retired, discharged, or released to inactive duty or within such longer
period as may be authorized by the Secretary concerned. It also provides that
nontemporary storage of baggage and household effects shall not be authorized
for a period longer than 1 year from the date members are separated from the
service, retired, placed upon the temporary disability retired list, discharged, or
released from active duty, except that a longer period may be authorized by
regulations promulgated by the respective Secretaries where a member is confined
in a hospital or in its vicinity undergoing medical treatment on that date; or in
the case of a member who (1) is retired for physical disability or placed on the
temporary disability retired list; or (2) is retired with pay for any other reason,
or immediately following at least 8 years of continuous active duty (no single
break therein of more than 90 (lays), is discharged with severance pay or involun-
tarily released to inactive duty with readjustment pay. In addition, H.R. 266
provides that the cost of such storage for that period in excess of 1 year shall,
except in the case of a member confined in a hospital or its vicinity undergoing
medical treatment on date of separation, discharge, or release, be paid by that
member.
The law does not presently require that the cited travel be performed within 1
year. However, the Comptroller General has recognized the long-standing
administrative view that 1 year is a reasonable time for performing travel to a
home in compliance with a military retirement order, unless such travel is pre-
vented by circumstances beyond the control of the member. Comptroller General
Decision B-144302, December 19,1960, ruled that any extension of this time period
could not be accomplished under the current law.
The Department of Defense supports H.R. 266.
At the present time many members are retiring, or must be retired, discharged,
or released to inactive duty at an age when they desire to, or must, supplement
their income. Often, however, it is necessary for the individual to acquire addi-
tional education or training in order to qualify for acceptable civilian employment.
By virtue of their military experience and training, many such former members
are extremely well qualified for the teaching profession, except for the required
periods of formal schooling. Frequently, when the schooling, training, or other
readjustment period requires more than 1 year, these former members are unable
to select a home and travel thereto within the 1 year after retirement, discharge,
or release to inactive duty. The Department of Defense believes that such indi-
viduals, who are undergoing additional academic training, will be of substantial
assistance in alleviating the shortage of qualified personnel in the teaching pro-
fession and that the Secretary of the service involved should have the authority to
extend the time period authorized for the selection of a home and travel thereto in
these and other deserving cases.
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Further, the Department of Defense believes that the extension of the 1 year
period for the nontemporary storage and subsequent shipment of household
effects of members who are confined in a hospital during the 1 year period from
that date of release from active duty is both fair and equitable. The technical
amendments appropriate to effect this change have been spelled out in the De-
partment's letter to the chairman expressing the Department of Defense's support
of this legislation.
Enactment of II.R. 266 will not cause a significant increase in budgetary re-
quirements.
I appreciate this opportunity of appearing before the committee, and my
colleagues and I shall be happy to answer any questions you may have on this bill.
(Subsequently, in executive session, the Committee voted to report
H.R. 266, without amendment, as covered by Senate Report No.
1692.)
H.R. 5297
Chairman RUSSELL. The next bill is H.R. 5297 which would require
the Secretary of each service to furnish notification in writing to
reservists who complete 20 years of satisfactory Federal service.
Payment of retired pay based on this statement could not be denied
or revoked unless it were shown that the error resulted from fraud
or misrepresentation, but any service improperly credited could be
excluded from the retired pay.
This bill is intended to avoid the troublesome cases that arise when
reservists discover that they lack a few months or it few days of having
20 years of satisfactory Federal service, but this discovery is made too
late for them to do anything about it.
(H.R. 5297 follows:)
[II.R. 5297, 89th Cong., 2d sess.]
AN ACT To amend title 10, United States Cole, to limit the revocation of retired pay of members of the
armed forces, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of
America in Congress assembled, That section 1331 of title 10, United States
Code, is amended by adding the following new subsection at the end thereof:
"(d) The Secretary concerned shall provide for notifying each person who has
completed the years of service required for eligibility for retired pay under this
chapter. The notice must be sent, in writing, to the person concerned within
one year after he has completed that service."
SEC. 2. Chapter 71 of title 10, United States Code, is amended as follows:
(1) By adding the following new section at the end thereof:
"? 1406. Limitations on revocation of retired pay
"After a person has been granted retired pay under chapter 67 of this title, or
has been notified in accordance with section 1331(d) of this title that he has com-
pleted the years of service required for eligibility for retired pay under chapter 67
of this title, the person's eligibility for retired pay may not be denied or revoked on
the basis of any error, miscalculation, misinformation, or administrative deter-
mination of years of service performed as required by section 1331(a)(2) of this
title, unless it resulted directly from the fraud or misrepresentation of the person.
The number of years of creditable service upon which retired pay is computed may
be adjusted to correct any error, miscalculation, misinformation, or administrative
determination and when such a correction is made the person is entitled to retired
pay in accordance with the number of years of creditable service, as corrected, from
the date he is granted retired pay."; and
(2) By adding the following new item at the end of the analysis:
"1406. Limitations on revocation of retired pay."
SEC. 3. Notwithstanding section 1406 of title 10, United States Code, as
added by this Act-
(1) the granting of retired pay to a person under chapter 67 of that title is
conclusive as to that person's entitlement to such pay only if the payment
of that retired pay is begun after the effective date of this Act; and
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(2) a notification that a person has completed the years of service required
for eligibility for retired pay under chapter 67 of that title is conclusive as to
the person's subsequent entitlement to such pay only if the notification is
made after the effective date of this Act.
Passed the House of Representatives July 18, 1966.
Attest: RALPH R. ROBERTS,
Clerk.
Chairman RUSSELL. The witness on this bill is Capt. J. W. Darroch,
Deputy Assistant Chief of Naval Personnel for Naval Reserves and
District Naval Affairs.
Captain Darroch, you may proceed.
STATEMENT OF CAPT. J. W. DARROCH, DEPUTY ASSISTANT CHIEF
OF NAVAL PERSONNEL, NAVAL RESERVE AND DISTRICT NAVAL
AFFAIRS
Captain DARROCH. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee,
I am Capt. J. W. Darroch, U.S. Navy, Deputy Assistant Chief of
Naval Personnel for Naval Reserve and Naval District Affairs,
Bureau of Naval Personnel and, as spokesman for the Department of
Defense, welcome the opportunity to present the Departments' views
on H.R. 5297.
The purpose of the proposed legislation is to make it a requirement
that the respective service Secretary notify, in writing each reservist
who has completed at least 20 years of satisfactory Federal service
for retirement with pay as described in section 1331 (a) (2) of title 10,
United States Code. This notification would be made within 1 year
after lie has completed the required service. Additionally, it would
provide that once retirement pay had commenced or the Secretary
had notified the individual he had completed the required service,
his eligibility for retired pay may not be denied or revoked because of
error unless it resulted from fraud or misrepresentation by the person
concerned. Should an error, not resulting from fraud or misrepre-
sentation, be later discovered, the number of years of creditable
service may be adjusted to correct such error, however eligibility for
retired pay would not be voidable. Entitlement under the proposed
legislation would only be effective dor determinations made after
the effective date of the act.
Public Law 810, 80th Congress, provided for retirement with pay
of officers and enlisted personnel of the Reserve components of the
Armed Forces. Those who complete a total of 20 years of satisfactory
Federal service have met the basic requirements, entitling them to
retired pay upon application at age 60.
While 20 years of satisfactory Federal service has been recognized
as a significant milestone in the career of a reservist, the variety of
ways in which credit may be earned with the inherent complicated
method of computation, as set out in section 1332 of title 10, based on
a point system, often leaves the reservist in serious doubt as to whether
he has in fact passed this milestone.
The services have, by a variety of administrative procedures,
attempted to keep an accurate and up-to-date record of the progress
of the reservist and advise him of his status in regard. to the completion
of the required satisfactory Federal service. Nevertheless, there have
been cases where the reservist has received erroneous information
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MISCELLANEOUS BILLS 21
that he has attained the required number of years or has miscomputed
these years himself and, relying thereon, has ceased participation in
the Reserve program. Consequently, upon his application for retired
pay at age 60, which may be some 15 years later, the error is dis-
covered and because of his age or other reason he is not able to renew
Reserve participation to acquire the necessary service and thus loses
his retirement pay.
This situation has resulted in an appeal from the Reserve com-
munity for a system of notification which will be final and conclusive.
The services are not able to grant this, because without legislation
the administrative determination remains subject to final review
according to title 10, United States Code.
Accordingly, the Department of Defense supports enactment of
H.R. 5297.
Chairman RUSSELL. Any questions for the captain?
Senator SALTONSTALL. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
What happens, Captain, if there is a raise in retired pay or the
general law is changed?
As I read this bill, once the Secretary has notified the Reserve
officer
Chairman RUSSELL. Not necessarily an officer.
Senator SALTONSTALL. The Reserve person, the Reserve officer or
man-that he has completed his service, that is going to be within
1 year and that is final and cannot be changed, and is not subject to
any alteration unless it is something through fraud. I was just
curious to know this.
Supposing a law was changed in some way. Does this notice still
remain final, or must a law indicate that it can be changed. It seems
to me the finality of it goes pretty far.
Captain DARROCH. It is final, Senator. It is to protect the indi-
vidual, though, from an administrative error. As it is now, through
an administrative error, he can have no retirement pay at all. An
example, I think, might clarify that point.
The man who has done 19 years of service thinks he has done 20.
When it comes time to collect his retirement pay at age 60, under the
present law he receives nothing when error was discovered.
Under this change, he would receive his retirement pay, but it
would be based on 19 instead of the requirement of 20.
Chairman RUSSELL. It would not have any effect in the highly
unlikely event of Congress repealing the retirement laws. This would
not stop it at all.
Captain DARROCH. No, sir.
Chairman RUSSELL. Congress could likewise repeal this one.
Captain DARROCH. It is really to protect the individual from routine
administrative errors that do occur in a system of computation that
is very complicated.
Senator SALTONSTALL. What you are saying in substance is that
this is final under the law at the time it is retired, but if there is any
change in the law or the retirement laws are repealed, which of course
is utterly unlikely, he would be subject to those changes.
Captain DARROCH. Yes, sir.
Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Cannon.
Senator CANNON. No questions.
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Senator YOUNG. No questions.
Senator INOUYE. No questions.
Senator STENNis. No questions.
Senator BYRD of Virginia. No questions.
Chairman RUSSELL. I wish to state that Mr. John H. Pratt, the
judge advocate general of the Marine Corps Reserve Officers Associa-
tion, has forwarded his statement in support of this bill.
Without objection, Mr. Pratt's statement will appear in the record.
Thank you very much, Captain.
Captain DARROCH. Thank you, sir.
(The statement of Mr. Pratt follows:)
MORRIS, PEARCE, GARDNER & PRATT,
Washington, D.C., October 7, 1966.
Re H. R. 5297.
Hon. RICHARD B. RUSSELL,
Chairman, Committee on Armed Services,
U.S. Senate, Washington, D.C.
MY DEAR SENATOR RUSSELL: I am happy as the Judge Advocate General of
the Marine Corps Reserve Officers Association to record the solid support of the
Association in favor of the passage of the above bill which was approved by the
House on July 18, and referred to your Committee. This legislation, which would
require the Secretary of the service concerned to notify each person who has coin-
pleted the years of service required for eligibility for retired pay, would make such
notification conclusive as to the person's subsequent entitlement to such pay. It
would also make the granting of retired pay conclusive as to such person's entitle-
ment to such pay. These provisions are prospective in application.
The need for this legislation is a matter of long standing. We have heard
of numerous cases of hardship which have resulted when an error has been dis-
covered long after the individual has left the service and placed it beyond his
power to make up the time of satisfactory Federal service needed for retirement.
This bill makes it the duty of the respective Service Secretary, within one year
after the required time has been completed to so notify the reservist.
Thanking you for your assistance in this matter and with every good wish,
I am
Sincerely,
JOHN H. PRATT,
Judge Advocate General, Marine Corps Reserve Officers Association.
Chairman RUSSELL. The committee will now go into executive
session.
(Whereupon, at 11:25 a.m., the committee retired into executive
session.)
(Subsequently, in executive session, the committee voted to report
H.R. 5297, without amendment, as covered by S. Rept. No. 1693.)
O
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