SPOTLIGHT ON CIA - WHAT IT IS...WHAT IT DOES
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Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST):
CIA-RDP99-00418R000100100044-3
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RIFPUB
Original Classification:
K
Document Page Count:
6
Document Creation Date:
December 22, 2016
Document Release Date:
November 21, 2012
Sequence Number:
44
Case Number:
Publication Date:
December 2, 1974
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OPEN SOURCE
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SPOTLIGHT
What It Is
Is spying on enemies and friends, or subver-
sion of governments, immoral? Mr. Colby was
invited to visit the magazine to give editors
his first comprehensive interview dealing
with CIA's worldwide operations.
Q Mr. Colby, many people around the world question the
moral right of the Central Intelligence Agency to spy on
friendly countries, as opposed to countries that are potential
enemies of the United States. How do you answer that?
A First, it's hard to distinguish so clearly between friends
and potential enemies, as over our history a number of
countries have been both. But basically the question comes
down to the concept of state sovereignty and the right of a
country to protect itself, which have long been recognized as
part -of international relations. That includes the right to
carry_ out such operations in the world as are believed
necessary for self-protection.
I think that moralists over the years have accepted some
degree of clandestine work as part of the normal relationship
between states. In any case, is spying any less moral than
developing great weapons systems, or many of the other
things that nations do in their self-interest?
Q How do you decide whether to operate in a friendly or
neutral country?
A The decision concerning any intelligence operation is
determined by the answer to four questions: What is the
importance to our nation of the intelligence result being
sought? What is the risk of exposure? What would be the
impact of exposure? And how much does it cost?
In most open societies, you don't have to conduct clandes-
tine operations to get information. So you would be foolish to
run the risks and absorb the costs of a clandestine mission.
Obvionsly,, in a friendly _country the adverse impact of
exposure would be very great: So that is a very negative
1..4114111100.
USN&WA
Interview With
William E. Colby,
Director of
Central Intelligence
Mr. Colby's first involvement in intelligence
work was in the Office of Strategic Services
in World War II. He then earned a law,
degree from Columbia Law School, an,d
1950 joined the CIA. He senied in Rome,
Stockholm and Saigon, and as head of the
Agency's' clandestine services. He became
Director of the CIA on Sept. 4, 1973'. He
appears, at right in photo, in the conference
room of "U. S. News & World Report."
factor. But there will be situations in some parts of the world
where a well-conceived, low-risk operation is necessary to
get some information which could be terribly important to
us.
O. What about covert operations such as the one the CIA
conducted in Chile before the overthrow of Allende?
A Again, it's a matter of the United States taking
decision that a certain course of action is important in the
best interests of our country, and friendly elements in
another one. There have been exposures before. The U-2
[spy plane] operation, of course, is a notable example.
O. Do you, as the Director of the CIA, decide that a covert
operation, such as against Chile, should be conducted?
A These decisions are very carefully structured. The
authority for them stems from the National Security Act.
This authorizes the CIA to carry out such other functions and
duties related to foreign intelligence as the National Security
Council may direct.
Furthermore, we explain to our congressional oversight
subcommittees in general how we propose to use the funds
that are appropriated annually for the CIA. We provide the
most-sensitive information and have no secrets as far as these
subcommittees are concerned. I don't necessarily describe
each operation in each country in detail, but if a member of
these subcommittees asks what we are doing in any particu-
lar country, I'll give him a full and fair picture. ?
CL Who actually makes the decision that a covert operation
should be undertaken?
A The actual operation is approved by a committee of the
National Security Council?the Forty Committee. If there is
high-level policy concern about the situation in some
country, we in CIA look at it and see what we might do that
would help implement national policy. Then we go up to the
National Security Council and say, -Here is what we think
we can do to carry out the general policy with regard to,that
country.- If the proposal is approved; we go aheadAand tarry
it out.
(continued on next page)
Copyright CI 1974, U. S. News & VVorld,Report, Inc.
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SPOTLIGHT ON CIA
[interview continued from preceding page]
I'm not suggesting that CIA has been pushed or shoved
into undertaking actions of this sort; it's pdrt of our job.
O. Is clandestine activity the major element in CIA activ-
ity?even in these days of detente?
A To answer that question, we have to stand back and
examine what the United States intelligence "community"
includes. It embraces the CIA, the Defense Intelligence
Agency, the National Security Agency, the intelligence
services of the Army, Navy and Air Force, the intelligence
units in State, Treasury and the Atomic Energy Commission,
and the FBI. All of these agencies collaborate on the
intelligence job.
After all, intelligence consists essentially of the collection
of information?by overt, technical and clandestine means?
the assessment of all this information, and deriving conclu-
sions and judgments about what is going on or is likely to go
on in the world.
In 1971, President Nixon said that the Director of Central
Intelligence should take a leadership role in this whole effort.
And I've tried to do this.
Essentially I have four jobs:
One of my jobs is to be head of the intelligence communi-
ty. Apart from the CIA, I don't have full authority over these
other agencies, but I do have certain influence on them
because of my responsibility to report, on, what ,they are,,
doing.
A second job is running the CIA.
Third, I have to be substantively informed about situations
around the world so that I can provide briefings, information
and assessments to the National Security Council.
Fourth is the job of acting as a kind of public spokesman
and handling problems like, our recent troubles.
Now, to get back to your question: By reason of the way
the community is structured, clandestine activity, most of
which is clandestine collection rather than covert political or
similar action, does represent a considerable percentage of
CIA's activity. But if you measure it against the whole of the
intelligence community, it's a rather small percentage of the
total community effort.
O. Has d?nte changed the character of your work or
reduced the need for clandestine intelligence?
A I wish it would. If you get to the logical end of d?nte,
then we would have established a relationship with the
Soviet Union of mutual respect for each other's strengths, so
that our differences can be negotiated about rather than
fought over. This, in turn, should encourage the Soviets to
believe that they ought to be more open with their
information. But that's not the situation now.
Today the Soviet attaches can go to almost any newsstand
in this country, pick up a copy of a technical aviation or space
magazine, and from it learn a vast amount of detail about our
AMERICA'S TOP INTELLIGENCE CHIEF
The massive flow of information pouring into Washing-
ton requires William Colby, as Director of Central Intelli-
gence, to make constant evaluations of fresh global
developments bearing on U. S. interests.
Following, in his own words, is the appraisal Mr. Colby
gave editors of "U. S. News & World Report" of tensions
around the world, what they mean, what they could lead
to, and the possible impact on the superpowers.
Strategic balance: U. S. vs. Russia. "The Soviets are
developing new missile systems that will increase their
strategic power considerably.
"But we do not see that in the foreseeable future they can
dominate us. We have both reached the point where we can
destroy each other, and the rest of the world?and they
know it.
"You ask if the transfer of American technology to the
Soviets is a matter of concern.
"We know that the military have a very high priority in
Soviet decision-making. We have procedures that put limita-
tions on giving them things of direct military value. And they
have a problem of adapting our technology, which works
because of our competitive system. That is a problem they've
got to do some adjusting to.
"The Soviets are, of course, well behind us technologically.
But they are able to challenge 'us in arms competition by
taking a much-more-disciplined approach, particularly in
assigning their best talent to arms work. One very interest-
ing thing is to compare the Soviet military work in space
with the Soviet civilian work in space. There is an obvious
qualitative difference between the two. The military work is
much, much better."
D?nte: Why Soviets want it. "There are three main
i-easons for Soviet interest in promoting d?nte with the
United States.
30
USN&WR
"First, they obviously want
to prevent the kind of horren-
dous confrontation that is pos-
sible in this age of superweap-
ons. The result of a nuclear
exchange between us would
be just so incredible now that
they realize that something
has to be done to avoid it.
"Secondly, they insist that
they be recognized as one of
the world's two superpowers
and get the status that their
strength implies. They might
also benefit from a relaxation of the' Western solidarity that
characterized the 1950s and 1960s.
"Thirdly, they would like to accelerate their development
in economic and technical terms, because as they look at the
enormous power of the West?America particularly, but also
the other countries?they see it moving at a tremendous
rate. They hope to benefit by a greater degree of exchange
and borrowing from that movement. '
"Generally, the Soviet concern over their internal disci-
pline is very high. This is partly a result of d?nte. They are
nervous about what d?nte can do in terms of getting new
thoughts and new political drives going within the Soviet
Union. And they just don't want that to happen."
Soviet empire: Starting to crumble? "The Soviets face a
problem as the states in Eastern Europe show signs of
dissatisfaction over iron-fisted control from Moscow. The
Russians have made it clear that they are not going to brook
any substantial break in their Eastern European buffer zone.
"Mit, at the same time, they obviously have the problem of
dealing with the new political ideas that are circulating in
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weapons systems. Unfortunately, we have to spend hundreds
of millions of dollars to get comparable information about the
Soviet Union. We couldn't fulfill our responsibilities to
Congress and the nation unless we did spend those millions
of dollars gathering that information.
Q There is pressure for CIA to restrict itself to the
collection of foreign intelligence such as you've described,
and abandon covert operations?that is, aiming at the
overthrow of governments. How do you react to that idea?
A Given the state of the world today, the Capitol would
not collapse tonight if the CIA were not permitted to
conduct such covert operations any longer. In fact, we do
considerably less of these than we did during the worldwide
confrontation with the Soviets and the expansionist drive of
the Communists in the 1950s. And we do considerably less
than during the period in the '60s, when we were dealing
with Communist insurgency and subversion in a number of
countries. Changes in the world situation and our national
policies have decreased such activities. We still do some; but
covert actions of this type are a very small percentage of our
total effort at the moment.
-O. Why is it needed at all?
A There are a few situations where a little discreet help to
a few friends of the United States or a little help to a few
people espousing a certain policy or program in a foreign
country can enable us to influence a local situation in a way
that may avert a greater crisis in the future.
And times change. We might be faced with a real need for
early, quiet influence against a rising threat, which otherwise
we might have no alternative than to meet by force later. We
no longer want to send the Marines to such situations. I think
this flexible tool is important to preserve so that we can use
it if we have to.
O. Do you assume that undercover agents from friendly
countries are operating in the United States?
A Certainly I do. The FBI has identified a number in the
past.
You have to recognize that, in dealing with a lot of
countries around the world, it's accepted that we all engage
in the clandestine gathering of intelligence. Nobody gets
emotional about it. It's been going on since Moses sent a man
from each tribe to spy out the Land of Canaan.
CI There has been some comment that budget cutbacks
have hurt intelligence gathering to the point where Secretary
of State Kissinger goes into talks with the Russians with
inadequate information. Is there any truth in that?
A We obviously are suffering budgetary pressures from
inflation. I think we are still giving a very good intelligence
product to our Government. I have great confidence in it.
There have been some projects that we have turned down
because they were totally out of reach financially. These
have been in the category of things that would have made
our intelligence more complete, but I don't think that we
(continued on next page)
SIZES UP WORLD'S TROUBLE SPOTS
some of those countries?including demands for greater
freedom of action.
"The old idea of total Soviet dominance and control is
under challenge even from some of the Communist Party
leaders in Eastern Europe."
Western Europe: Communist penetration. "One thing
the Soviets want is Communist participation in the govern-
ments of Western Europe.
"This is in line with Communist ideology, which says that
collapse of the European democratic system is inevitable, so
that the movement of Communist forces from minority
voices to participation will enable the Communists eventual-
ly to take over governments there and run them.
"Obviously, the Communists are playing a role in some
countries by reason of the 25 per cent or 28 per cent of the
votes ,they represent, and the difficulties of organizing
governments among the fragmented non-Communist par-
ties.
"There's been some increase in Communist Party in-
fluence. But several trends are running: One is the increase
in European Communist Party influence in these countries;
another is the apparent increase in the independence of
European Communist parties from Moscow's control, and
another is the non-Communist parties' reaction to this, to
d?nte, and to each other. It's premature to tell where these
trend lines are going to cross.
"We are certainly not saying, 'It doesn't matter whether
the Communists participate in power.' What I'm saying is
that this is a complicated, multifactored matter."
Cuba: Castro's policy now. "Fidel Castro's attempts to
export his brand of Communist insurgency to other countries
of Latin America didn't work.
"The Cubans have stressed in recent years the develop-
ment of state-to-state relationships. And they've been quite
successful with that new policy.
"As for Russia, the Soviets still rate Cuba as a geographic
asset?no question about it. It's a very substantial geographic
asset, but it's a very costly one to them in terms of the
support the Cubans have required over the years.
"Cuba's present activities in Latin America?stressing
state links?are, in general, of long-term use to Soviet
interests."
War in Mideast: Quite possible. "Another round of war
between Israel and the Arabs is possible?quite possible.
"It depends in great part on peacemaking diplomacy.
Obviously, the Arab summit meeting at Rabat, which named
the Palestine Liberation Organization as the sole legitimate
representative of Palestinians living on Arab land held by
Israel, raises new difficulties.
"As for the Soviet role: They desire to play the role of a
major power in the Middle Eastern area. They are endeavor-
ing to express that through their naval presence, through
their military-aid programs, through their economic aid, and
so forth. Their policy right now is to keep that presence
active, keep the capability of influencing the situation. But at
the same time they have a considerable interest in continu-
ing d?nte with the United States. They've got to try to go
along a rather narrow track without abandoning their
influence, but, on the other hand, not seeing the whole thing
derail.
"The Soviets do get a certain amount of benefit from the
economic troubles that afflict the West as a result of the oil
problems, but they don't have to do much about that. It's
taking place pretty much on its own. On the other hand,
they have to realize that an aggressive move by them to cut
off oil could cause a reaction on our side. It would be a very
direct affront to any d?nte hopes that they have."
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National Security Council in session. Mr. Colby, far left, may suggest covert operations by CIA in a country causing "high-level
concern" as a way to "implement national policy." He adds: "If the proposal is 'approved, we carry it out. It's part of our job."
SPOTLIGHT ON CIA
[interview continued from preceding page]
have yet dropped below a danger line. I don't think it has
imperiled our ability to negotiate.
However, as we look ahead a few years, we do have a
problem coming up because of the inflationary squeeze.
We've tried to respond to this by focusing our effort on the
more-important things and dropping off the things that we
may have needed in a different world.
Q Where have you been able to cut back?
A Luckily, today we are not required to maintain the
scale of effort that we did in Southeast Asia, for example. Our
problems in some of the other parts of the world are more
manageable than they were when we were deeply con-
cerned about a large number of countries that were under
pressure of Communist subversion or insurgency. The im-
pact on the world balance then could have been quite
substantial if any one country had made a change in political
direction.
Today, I think the world balance is a little more stable, at
least with respect to major military threats to our country.
The real challenge for intelligence is to provide the kind of
information that enables us to negotiate and enables us to
anticipate future developments in countries that would be of
great importance to us. Obviously, the subject of economics
has become more important in the past few years. Terrorism
has become a threat to the safety of our citizens. Also, the
narcotics problem has grown in the past few years. But other
situations correspondingly have declined, and we've been
able to compensate. ,
0. Mr. Colby, the CIA has been widely criticized for its
involvement in Watergate?
A The CIA did two wrong things in the Watergate affair:
The first was providing Howard Hunt paraphernalia for use
in his work for the White House. The second was providing
White House employes the psychological profile of Daniel
Ellsberg. They weren't earthshaking, but they were wrong.
We shouldn't have done them, and we have told our
employes that we won't do them again.
O. If someone called today from the White House and
asked the CIA to do something improper, what could you do
about it?
A Well, that's very clear. In my confirmation hearing on
July 2 last year, I said that if I was ordered to do something
improper, I would object and quit if necessary. That's easy.
Also our employes have been instructed that if they have any
question about anything that they are asked to do, they are
to come to me.
If anybody really tried to misuse the CIA in the future, I
think the organization would explode from. inside. It really
would. And that's good, because it's the best protection we
have against this kind of problem.
O. Do you 'operate at all inside the United States?
A We have no internal-security functions or police or law-
enforcement powers. It is clear that our function is only
foreign intelligence.
What do we do inside the United States?
We have a large building up on the Potomac River with a
lot of employes. In order to know something' about them
before we hire them, we conduct security investigations. We
also make contracts with people around the country to
supply us with things that we can use in our activities abroad.
And we have contracts for research projects so that we can
expand the base of our knowledge.
We have a service in our agency that talks to Americans
who may have knowledge of some foreign situation that they
are willing to share with their Government. We identify
ourselves as representatives of the CIA, and we assure these
Americans that they will be protected as a source?and we
will do so. But we don't pay them and we don't conduct
clandestine operations to obtain such intelligence from
Americans.
We have some support structures in this country for our
work abroad. We also collect foreign intelligence from
foreigners in America. This is intelligence about foreign
countries and has nothing to do with protecting the internal
security of this country against those foreigners. That is the
job of the FBI, with which we have a clear understanding
and good co-operation as to our respective functions.
(continued on next news page)
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SPOT LIG'FlibN
? -
,[interviely cpntinued frOm pagq:32) .
'Q A number of Corigressinew"Complam that there is -no
effective control Over the .CIA.-4Sftberf.e,Iffitkeas4n whyo4r
.
agency '-shOilldn'f. be subjected twtightersuperv;iiion? -
A think We have respOiided'16'0Ongiess's' right .arid
desire to know about ,the details of our activities over:the
Years in'the-forin that Congress itSelf has-arranged. Now the
arrangements we, have _with our oversight ' COniinaitteeS7'in
Congress are a lot More inteiiie:. tOdaY;than tintpaSt years?
Twenty years -agn, all of rth1sWai6cOraidered'a:ivery''seeret
affair:, TodaY, Congress' -demanding :' We
answer any ? questions our oversight
must Volunteer to their' inattetheYinight.rintknoviito ak
about.-sThat'S the- Way ConantS:it;fand?
.are :responding. If We didn't, 'We'dbe'
rear tibuble. ' r! St.,
,2% Mr. Colby,' do';y4 feel that the'effeetiVe
ness of the' ,CIA. imiiaired bY all the pObliCitY-
that" you've been :getting latelyabonts 's-eCiet -
oPerations? 4 .)
'Obviously this has --raised.
among some of our-foreignfriendS?alkifitTtlie.q
degree. to which We can keep seeretifLeading`
Officials of-foreign goVerOrnents haVerbrOtight
in diSeiissions With nieIndiVidnalS7Wh'-'?---,'
have worked with us in various parts sof ,tlie
World have indicated a,disinelinatiOn'tn4Ork.'
with-us any longerbebatise Of' the',- very:real -'-
dangers to them of exPokire-i-' ."; s
- that resPeet," We have' been htirt:Aitit'I
like 'the way 'duE 'siticiety nips. -I- thinIC'lit -
perhaps " unique- tho' chief at iritelligbrice
has to be eiposed, as he is in AMerica'Bilt"'We
have a responsibility td the:Aineriean Penple.; '
We are as repOrisiVe a?,We can be 'and tilFruP
an intelligence service. We regnlailybrfef--1
neWstrien on world Wel-talk 'pfibliely
aboiit our. activities in
release: our information :and ,'6.,?sessinents ' ? '';
whenever' We Can. I- think Arnerigaiii?:'
I am, charged in the National Security 'Act with the
protection of of intelligence sourcesand methods from unau-
Ahorized disclosure. But the only tool i have is the secrecy
agreement we require our people to sign as a condition of
employment.
We invoked this agreement against one of our ex-employes
who 'wrote a book. We didn't Censor his opinions or.
?
cri cipns; we Just tried to prevent him from revealing names
of people, and sensitive operations, some still going on. We
are currently engaged in a civil action in the courts to
, determine whether we can enforce the agreement he made.
, I recommended legislation that would make it possible for .
us to protect intelligence secrets more effectively. My
!recommendations would rapply only to those of us who
voluntarily sign an agreement that gives us access to these
great deal Of Strength -froth this; eVerf:thotigh-' tc*. Anii4kalrxists in Chile protesti WIDE WORLD
it's' a big change from ng policies of ,the late President, Allende; ,CIA'
:
-traditional intelligenceF acted ..!-fin the be'SiinterestS'of otir`country? and friendly elements 'in another."
secrety. ? ? '
f:Ir413 ::"77'. ? - ? .
a 'How do leaks:affeet Morale it the CIA? :** c'^ "
A You have to draw a distinction between leaks that lead se&ets it 'would not:impinge:on First Amendment guaraii-
to criticism of our programs and spolicies and leaks that
expose our people: I think that We Can andshotild stand 'in to . Colby; ,can We ' 'gel back' to the 'questiOn of the'
RecessitY-for' the United ' States to maintain a big,-' secret
'iii' eiti of d?nte? ' ' ?
reiL'I'didn't fully repry-tO that: r 14,
I, feel its is essentialrto the protection of our country, not
only our military" security bnt-alsOiin 'the sense of security
other problems s' We (ace 'OVerseas.eConoixiia?
pirees;'lerroriSni; 16Cal'PrOblerni'iliat carr start in i';arious
PartS'Of-L-therld and eveitually thvolve'us: Through our
intelligence -work ;We, Must:-anticipate these ' Problems and
protective We 'don't' know that another 'country
is "develdriini particular :threat; We clan be caught 'Very
badly' off base: ' ' 1
BeYOrid that, our intelligenCe Works Makes if POssible' tn-
engage'in negotiations. The SALT [Strategie Arins;Linntal
tion-Talks]. agreement.between U. and RUsSia'-is' the 'nest'
obvions'-example. Without the knoWledge;'We had of Soviet
'weapons through our intelligence 'activities; it' :wCould 'not,
have been Possible'for iiS tonegotiate.
We alsO have:what I Would ea a PeaCekeeping role; whiCh
'(cdiztinued oii next' p" age) ,' ? ? ? - '
e criticism. But exposing our people can be very difficult
'and'alto very dangerous.
You will recall Mr. Mitrione, who was killed in Uruguay.
- [Dan Mitrione, a U. S. employe of the Agency for Interna-
tional Development assigned to train police in Uruguay, was
lcidnaped on July 31, 1970, and later killed by, TupamarO
guerrillas.] He was murdered?that's the only word for it. He
was alleged to have been a CIA officer, which he was not.
I think it is reckless to go around naming people as being
identified with the CIA. -
Q Why, can't you prevent former CIA officials from
publishing books that reveal secrets of your agency and the
names of secret agents? ,
A There are criminal penalties for people who reveal
income-tax returns or census returns or even cotton statistics.'
But there are no similar criminal penalties for people who
reveal the name of an intelligence officer or agent or an
intelligence secret', unless they give it to a iforeigner or
intend to injure the United States. I think it's just plain --
wrong for us not to protect our secrets better. ''
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Missile sites in Cuba photographed from U-2.
"Technology has revolutionized intelligence. . . . We can moni-
tor the 1972 SALT agreement without on-site inspection.?
SPOTLIGHT ON CIA
[interview continued from preceding page]
I see of increasing importance in the years ahead. On a
number of occasions, we have seen situations developing in a
dangerous manner. By alerting our Government in good
time, it has been possible for it to defuse these situations.
Q What part do spy satellites and other forms of modern
technology play in your work of collecting intelligence?
A Quite franldy, technology has revolutionized the intelli-
gence business. You have seen the photographs that came
out of the U-2 operation over Cuba. You can realize the great
importance of this development if you think back to the
great debate in 1960 about a missile gap. People took strong
positions on both sides, and we at the CIA were trying to
determine what really was happening?whether ' a missile
gap actually was opening up in favor of the Soviet Union.
Today it would be impossible to have that debate because
the facts are known.
This kind Of technical intelligence made the SALT agree-
ment possible. For years we insisted that any arms agree-
ment would require inspection teams to monitor on the
ground what the Russians were doing. Given their closed
society, they wouldn't permit it. That stalled negotiations for
years. Finally our "national technical means," as we politely
call them, were improved to the extent we could tell the
President and Congress that we can monitor the 1972 SALT
agreement without on-site inspection teams, and we could
make the agreement.
0. Some argue that satellites and other forms of technical
intelligence can do the job and that there is no real need for
clandestine agents ferreting out information. Do you agree?
A Not at all. Technical systems and open observation can
tell us a great deal of what is physically there in closed
societies. But they can't tell us what is going to be there in
three or four years' time because of decisions that are being
made in board rooms today. They can't tell us the internal
political dynamics to allow us to assess how such a society is
changing. And they can't tell us the intentions of people who
may be bent on deceiving us. Intelligence of this sort can be
obtained only by what we call "clandestine collection."
0. Looking at Russia's intelligence operation?the KGB?
how does it compare with ours in scale and effectiveness?
A I think Soviet intelligence is going through a change?a
good change. For years the big thrust was on stealing secrets.
36
You remember the atom spies in America and all that sort of
thing. In the past few years the Soviets have apparently
become aware of the significance of assessment?the analysis
function of intelligence. They've set up institutes to study the
United States, realizing that- the facts are easy to obtain in
America. Their real problem is assessing what we might do,
which is a terribly complicated and difficult intelligence
problem.
O. Are you suggesting that the KGB no longer maintains
spies in this country?
A Oh, they do?sure, they do. What I am saying is? that
they have moved from heavy dependence on espionage to
greater reliance on more-normal ways of collecting and
assessing intelligence. You can only say that's a change for
the good; it should give them a more accurate picture of us,
and it could hopefully reduce their espionage someday.
But the Soviets still run very extensive covert operations
around the world. In any kind of foreign mission thy send
abroad?for example, delegations to international organiza-
tions?there always will be KGB people or people from
GRU, their military intelligence. They also conduct a long-
term program of training people and putting them in place
under false identities to stay for many years. Colonel Abel
[Rudolf Abel, a convicted Soviet spy, was returned to Russia
in exchange for U-2 pilot Francis Gary Powers in 1962] was
an example of that. They have the benefit, of course, of
indirect support from a variety of Communist parties around
the world.
O. The Director of the FBI has said that there now are so
many Soviet spies in America that he is having trouble
trailing them. Why do we let so many in?
A We let them in as diplomats, commercial travelers, or
in some other capacity. You have to realize that there has
been a very large increase in the number of Soviet citizens in
the United States, as compared with 10 years ago?partly as
a result of d?nte. Now, if you get an increase in Soviet
citizens in this country, you are inevitably going to get an
increase in Soviet agents.
You see, in the Soviet Union the intelligence service is a
very, very powerful institution because of its responsibilities
for internal security as well as foreign intelligence. They
have, in effect, merged the CIA, the FBI and our State police
forces. And their intelligence service carries a very high
degree of responsibility for preserving the power of the
Soviet state, for party discipline and for public discipline.
Consequently, the KGB has an institutional power that is
totally different from the FBI and CIA combined in our
country.
I think our system makes us a better and a stronger nation.
Dan Mitrione, an American
murdered by guerrillas in Uru-
guay, "was alleged to have
been a CIA officer, which he
was not. It's reckless to name
people as being identified
with the CIA," says Mr. Colby.
WIDE WORLD
U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT, Dec. 2, 1974
, Declassified and Approved.For Release 2012/11/21: CIA-RDP99-00418R000100100044-3