AL-QADHDHAFI GRANTS INTERVIEW ON VARIOUS FOREIGN ISSUES

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP05-01559R000400370122-0
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 9
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: February 3, 2012
• Sequence Number: 122
• Publication Date: October 8, 1976
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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Friday
8 October 1976
Vol V No 197
Annex No 58
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The information printed on these Annex pages preceding
and following the standard Daily Report cover bears the
caveat FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY. Users may detach the
outer pages and treat the Daily Report as unclassified
and unrestricted.
FOREIGN BROADCAST INFORMATION SERVICE
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NO,
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V. 8 Oct 76 2 MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA
Paris JEUNE AFRIQUE in French 8 Oct 76 pp 69-73 LD--YUR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
[Arnaud de Borchgrave 'Early September '. interview with Col Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi,
chairman of the Libyan Revolution Command Council: "Mu'ammar al-Qadhdafi Explains"--
place of interview not specified]
[Text) JEUNE AFRIQUE: Do you consider yourself a revolutionary?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: In the sense that the age of the popular masses has begun
throughout the world--though some regimes are resisting it--you can consider me an
international revolutionary.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: And do you really believe that your own revolutionary scheme--the Third
Universal Theory--is more global than Marxism and that it is valid for not only the
Third World but also industrialized countries?
Mu-ammar al-Qadhdhafi: Study it well and you will become convinced that this is so.
Marxism invites controversy--some people are for it and others against.. Provided it
is studied correctly, the, third theory will be accepted everywhere, not only in the
Third World. Only the enemies of the masses, those who want to exploit them, reject
it. As a Westerner you will admit that parliamentary democracy is very sick. In their
struggle for power political parties spend their time denouncing and ridiculing one
another and this struggle must inevitably harm the vital interests of society. In
order to prove the incompetence of a government, a political party must destroy the
work of that government and discredit its plans even if they are advantageous to society.
The interests of the masses are soon overlooked.
We now witness a distortion of democracy. Even though control is exerted and real
counterweights are in operation, legal control over the party in power often remains
in the hands of a parliament most of whose members belong to the same party. Referendums
are equally fallacious. Presenting the people with two alternatives--yes or no--is a
form. of oppression. The people should be given an opportunity for explaining the
reasons for their assent or dissent.
Our people's assemblies represent the only way to achieve real democracy. In our coun-
try everything is decided by people's committees which are responsible to local, regional
or national assemblies. Democracy means leading the people by the people themselves and
not by an elite or a ruling class.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: And that is why you are helping revolutionaries throughout the world?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: We support movements whose cause seems to us just, irrespective
of their attitude toward the Third Universal Theory. pecause there are still people
who need our help to liberate themselves from colonialist, neocolonialist or racist
regimes.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: You have nonetheless denied that you helped Egyptian revolutionaries
opposed to As-Sadat, despite the fact that according to Libyan propaganda Egypt is
ruled by a neocolonialist regime.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: In fact, we do not even know whether there is any group in
Egypt opposed to As-Sadat's policy. Therefore, we would find it difficult to support
them. Is As-Sadat's policy a prelude to neocolonialism or is it only a question of
maneuvers aimed at defusing the country's domestic and external problems? [paragraph
continues]-
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I cannot yet express an opinion on the subject but I believe that As-Sadat is merely
taking advantage of ttie.present international circumstances in order to try to deal
with his country's. major difficulties. However, if neocolonialism were again to prevail
in Egypt, this would constitute a threat to the entire Arab nation since we are one
entity and in that case the masses would support us in our struggle against such a threat.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: You have stated that no coup could take place in Libya because in your
country power is completely in the hands of the people. Were the people consulted when
you concluded an arms deal with the Soviet Union?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi (bursting out laughing): People's power has asserted itself'
gradually., From 1 September 1969, when we seized power, until April 1973, when the
people's revolution was started and the masses assumed complete power, the Supreme
Revolution Council ruled the country. Right from the start we established relations
with the Soviet Union--no treaty, only purely routine conventional relations of the
most classic type. Th;.se relations are now excellent. We would very much like to have
similar relations with the United States but W?:shington has preferred to freeze our
relations and.refuses to.exchange ambassadors.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: In the past you used to warn your interlocutors about Soviet imperialism.
What has made you change your mind? Egypt and Syria were once very close to the Soviet
Union and look what happened. Does this not worry you?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: What I warned about was the danger of the Soviet Union pursuing
a colonialist policy. If it had tried to pursue such a policy in Libya we would have
rejected it. And, in fact, we are opposed to the presence of the Soviet fleet--and the
American 6th Fleet--in the Mediterranea. I insist: Not only the Soviet Fleet. When a
country deals with us on terms of equalityand seeks our friendship it would be impolite
to adopt a hostile attitude toward it or criticize certain aspects of its foreign policy
we do not approve of.,
JEUNE AFRIQUE: How can a Libyan Army of 30,000 men--or even 60,000 since you are plan-
ning to double its size--operate 2,000 Soviet-supplied tanks?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: I disagree with your figures.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: Results' of satellite reconnaissance are very accurate.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: We know the technique and we have taken precautions. How do
you know that some of the tanks that you have seen being unloaded are not decoys? In
any case, we need a lot of arms and heavy equipment for the citizens' army we are plan-
ning. We want to get away from the professional army concept--in our country all able-
bodied men will be given military. training. So if war comes we will be able to mobilize
the entire nation and there will be enough equipment for all, not just for the standing
army. Some of the tanks which you saw during the march-past on the seventh anniversary
of the revolution were driven by specially trained civilians.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: Has most of this hardware been stockpiled in case other countries need
it, for instance in the event of a new war with Israel?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: The arms which we have so far bought are still very inadequate
for a citizens' army and the needs of a credible defense. Since the United States claims
that it protects the Free World, it should remember that we also are free and quite
prepared to purchase American arms with a view to protecting our freedom. (paragraph
continues]
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We ordeied and paid cash for eight American C-130 transport aircraft, but the Washington
administration stopped the deal dust before these aircraft were to be delivered. The
only conclusion we can draw from the policy pursued by the State Department is that the
Americans are enemies of peoples' freedom.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: The new Scud missiles you displayed for the first time during the 1 Sep-
tember march-past were described by the commentator as being able to hit Haifa and Tel
Aviv. Considering that their range is only 270 km, how could they hit Israel?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: The announcer got carried away by the general euphoria and I
am not responsible for his overstatements. But, I can tell you that those were improved
Scuds with a longer range than that of normal Scuds. Not long enough to reach Israel,
however.
JEUNE AFRIQUEs Every missile has the same markings painted in red: "Short-Range Missiles."
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: The Scuds constitute for us a kind of strategic preventive weapon.
Any country has the right to possess some strategic arms. Even the United States believed
that it was taking legitimate defense action when it dropped the nuclear bomb, even though
the war against Japan was almost won at the time the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.
JEUNE AFRIQUEs How do you manage to reconcile your nonalinement and peaceful coexistence
principles and your pledged respect for the integrity of all nations with your support
for revolutionaries trying to overthrow other governments such as in Thailand and the
Philippines?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: In the Philippines there is the universal problem of religious
oppression. In any case, Libya is not the only country showing concern about this since
all Moslem countries and also African and Asian countries share its concern and since the
Colombo conference of nonalined countries decided to send a delegation to the Philippines.
Events which are taking place there should cause concern to any person with a sense of
justice.
Mulammar al-Qadhdhafi: I do not have sufficient information about it, but it is also
probably a matter of religious oppression. When we give our support to that kind of
cause we are not interfering in the internal affairs of the countries concerned. because
our aid is of a moral nature.
JEUNE AFRIQUEs No weapons?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: That would be difficult, if only for geographical reasons.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: No money?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: We have sent money to Guatemala and Italy for the earthquake
victims and to Pakistan after the floods which occured there, as well as in many other
instances of that kind. But the Western media do not mention that aid.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: Could you list the local insurrections around the world which receive
your support in the form of weapons or money?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: If we could send weapons or equipment to the liberation forces
of South Africa, we would certainly do so. But we would have to be absolutely sure that
that material would be used by the liberation forces themselves and not by the countries
through which it would have to pass. [paragraph continues]
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If we were geographically closer to the racist regime of South Africa, we would openly
wage war on it with our army. Of course, we supplied Egypt and Syria with weapons
during the October war and we are arming the Palestinian resistance. We consider all
these causes just and we believe that we have a sacred responsibility toward them.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: Libya is an obstacle to the destruction of the Arab cause and
that of Palestine. That is why it has become the target of the propaganda of the Zion-
ists and their allies, who'are systematically distorting Libyan policy and attempting
to present a grotesque image'of our country.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: So, everything apart from the instances which yvu have just mentioned
is nothing but pure invention?
JEUNE AFRIQUE: You denied any involvement in the July abortive coup in the Sudan and
yet the leader of that insurrection against President Numayri publicly thanked you for
your assistance.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi:? Those who fight for dubious causes claim to have powerful
allies. That encourages them to continue their struggle.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: Yet the Sudanese found Soviet equipment with Libyan markings and cap-
turedmercenaries trained in Libya!
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: That is indeed proof ghat it is a fabrication. If I had wanted
to take part in.the insurrection, I would have first of all wiped out any trace of
Libyan markings. When the other governments in the region are faced with internal oppo-
sition they cast the blame on Libya; it is the latest trick which they have discovered.
If world opinion is not aware of it, it is because it is truly naive, or else refuses to
see the truth....
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: Our relations with London and Dublin are improving and we will
soon be exchanging ambassadors with Ireland. The IRA chapter is closed. That does not
mean that the reunification of 'Ireland is a cause which is no longer of value and that
justice is no longer on that side. But, it is not a very serious matter, and I believe
that we should set aside anything which does noi. appear to be of an urgent nature. After
Ireland and Britain, I hope that our 'relations with the United States will also improve.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: That they help us to begin a dialog. We must talk with them
more often. The majority of our students abroad are in the United States--there are
2,000 of "them. Yet we are not talking to each other.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: It does not matter.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: You took As-Sadat to task 2 days after the outbreak of the October 1973
conflict for going to war. You are now saying that no country helped Egypt more during
that conflict, than'Libya. When did you change your mind and what exactly did you supply
Egypt with?
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Nu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: What I said was that As-Sadat had an inadequate plan of cam-
paign, but once hostilities had broken out we had no option but to support Egypt and
Syria. Those two countries received 300 tanks and 60 aircraft from us, plus a certain
quantity of electronic equipment and infrared telescopes for the Egyiptian Navy, and
artillery. -
JEUNE AFRIQUE: In your 1 September speech you said that the Egyptian forces had attempted
to provoke incidents in Libyan border villages. When and where did that happen?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: Those villages are surrounded by Egyptian artillery forces and
tanks. I do not know whether As-Sadat is bluffing or whether he intends to wage war
on us. In any event, we have withdrawn all our border forces. If something happens,
it will be known who is responsible.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: Has the Soviet Union offered you its assistance in the event of Egyptian
forces invading Libya?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: We have not discussed it, either in Moscow or in other capitals.
Only the Arab League has been informed. But we read with pleasure the PRAVDA commentary
supporting us.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: If you are not responsible for any trouble in Egypt, can you explain to
us why As-Sadat is angry with you and why he has moved troops from the canal zone to
the Libyan border?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: I ask myself the same question, but I cannot find an answer.
Maybe Washington knows....
JEUNE AFRIQUEt During the last few months it seems that none of the Arab leaders has
had a kind work to say about you. What is the reason for this attitude, in your opinion?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: I believe that they are jealous of our power of attraction over
the Arab masses. It is very natural and does not trouble us. That proves to us that
our way is the right way.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: As-Sadat supports the PLO in the Lebanese conflict. Why are you more
critical of him than of Al-Asad?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: My criticism is not based on Egypt's attitude toward Lebanon but
on As-Sadat's behavior toward us and the signing of the Sinai agreement which neutralized
the Egyptian front. As-Sadat can, however, plead mitigating circumstances, because that
agreement was imposed on him by the United States.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: Of course it was--politically and militarily. Look at the
results: Less than nothing! For a long time Israel's three major objectives have been
the guaranteeing of secure borders, direct negotiation with the three battlefield coun-
tries and, lastly, the destruction of the Palestinian cause by splitting the Arab ranks.
The Israelis have succeeded in obtaining a secure border with Egypt and they are seeking
to secure the same thing for their eastern and northern borders through the Lebanese civil
war. They have also managed to hold direct talks with the Arab governments since the
Kilometer 101 talks. But the Palestinian cause cannot be destroyed; it will go on until
final victory.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: You have recently suggested the idea of a tripartite summit of the Egyp-
tian and Syrian presidents and yourself to discuss the question of As-Sadat. (paragraph
continues]
(Annex continues on back pages of reports)
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Are you seeking to be reconciled with him or to condemn him? Is not the idea of that meet-
ing lacking in realism, in view of the fact that As-Sadat refused to shake hands with
Al-Asad and yourself at the Colombo conference?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: I,am simply seeking to find a constitutional solution for our
problem. According to the constitution of our stillborn federation, this type of summit
was supposed to be a supreme council, meeting every 2 years. Whether this is a practical
solution remains to be seen. I am not opposed to a reconciliation with As-Sadat. We
could meet alone in a neutral country and settle our differences in a few hours.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: In your speech you stated that you had received many letters from Egyptian
officers condemning As-Sadat for signing a nonbelligerency treaty with Israel. How many
letters have you received and how did they reach you?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: Communication takes place in various ways. We even have direct
contact at the border, where some letters have been delivered to us directly. We announce
this every day on the radio and read out the texts of the letters, but we keep the names
of the correspondents secret, of course. We have received thousands of letters during
the last few years from different social groups--officers, students and trained personnel--
who support our revolution.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: Our revolution shows up weak spots and suggests solutions which
act as a magnet on the masses. Now, whenever a leader loses the support of the masses
he is caught up in quicksands.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: Are you always aware of your secret service's activities? Do your agents
tell you how they are carrying out your instructions or how they are getting weapons to
their place of destination?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: This is a very important question. Throughout the world the
activities of intelligence agencies can be controlled frombeginning to end only by high
officials. Because of the very nature of their work they could do bad things or act
clumsily. These agencies can often operate in a manner inconsistent with their govern-
ment's policies. The U.S. CIA provides a vivid example of this. Unfortunately, the
state cannot disown them and say: "It was Ahmad's or Muhammad's fault." In the final
analysis the state has to take the responsibility and Libya, in that respect, is no
different from the United States, the Soviet Union or any other country.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: If you were to order your secret service to do something and they felt
that the only way to comply with your order was to smuggle weapons in a diplomatic pouch,
would they tell you about it?
) 'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: Sending arms through your secret service is not the best way of
doing things. If we had wanted to send arms to Angola before it achieved independence,
the best way would have been to contact the liberation front concerned and reach an
understanding. But it would be a big mistake to ask your Mukhabarat (secret service) to
do this. This is how diplomatic pouches get misused. We are aware of these dangers
and we are alert to them. I believe that the deterioration in the international order we
are witnessing is largely a result of the use of legal facilities for illegal ends. We
all suffer from this syndrome. Thus the entire world has accepted the inviolability of
diplomatic pouches, their misuse having had serious consequences.
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JEUNE AFRIQUE: What did you know about what happened during the July summit in Jidda,
at which Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Sudan met to discuss your case?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: I received information somewhat different from that published in
NEWSWEEK, at least with regard to the Saudis. When we asked them for clarifications on
the allegations contained in the article, the Saudis answered that As-Sadat had got in
contact with them while he was conferring with Numayri in Alexandria; he wanted to ask
Prince Fahd (the heir apparent and Saudi prime minister) to meet with him. When the
Saudis replied thai, the prime minister was too busy, As-Sadat and Numayri asked for
Prince Abdallah (commander of the national guard) or another high dignitary to come to
Alexandria, still without explaining what it was about. The Saudis subsequently learned,
to their great surprise, that As-Sadat and Numayri were on their way to Jidda without
an invitation and without even having notified the palace. -Once there, the two heads of
state told the Saudis that they wa..ted to discuss the Libyan case; they showed their
interlocutors a map of Libya showing three secret camps; where we were supposed to have
been training guerrillas to invade Egypt and Sudan, as well as a fourth camp in the
extreme south of the country where we were supposed to have been training young Saudis
and Yemenis to infiltrate Saudi Arabia. As-Sadat gave the names of the places and the
personnel involved; he finally convinced them. We told the Saudis that we had no
objection to As-Sadat and his helpers coming to show us the locations of these camps since
we were unaware of their existence.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: The commando chief who hijacked an Egyptian aircraft on 22 August con-
fessed that one of your Interior Ministry officials name(' (Tanabou) had promised him
$345,000 for the operation.
Mutammar al-Qadhdhafi: We laughed a lot over this name because the defendant stated
that the official was an under secretary at the Ministry of the Interior. This proved
that he had been forced to confess. To make doubly sure, however, we checked the names
of all state and even municipal officials. This person, this name, does not exist.
The under secretary at the Ministry of the Interior is called (Younes Belkacem). Let
us be serious. How can we be responsible for the hijacking of an aircraft, of an
Egyptian aircraft from one ariport to another, by a Jordanian, a Kuwaiti and a Palestin-
ian? This whole affair is ridiculous and this account was only aimed at discrediting
us. Show me just one Libyan who has embezzled public funds or organized the hijacking of
an aircraft!
JEUNE AFRIQUE: But do you support George Habash and his Popular Front for the Libera-
tion of Palestine, who have been responsible for a number of hijackings?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: These people have made mistakes and we keep on telling them
that their hijackings damage their cause and always arouse the hostility of thousands
of people. We cannot-be held responsible for their errors of judgement.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: If you are against the hijacking of aircraft, why do-you not take
vigorous action to stop it?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: The hijacking of aircraft lies in theprovince of terrorism and
this is why we are opposed to it. If we have allowed air pirates to land here, it has
been at the specific request of the governments and even the heads of the governments
concerned. With the case of the Japan airways Jumbo Jet, the Japanese prime minister
telephoned our under secretary for foreign affairs to ask him to refuse landing
facilities. (paragraph continues]
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Then the Japanese premier telephoned our prime minister to ask him to help to save
the passengers by authorizing a landing. The same thing happened with the aircraft
from Malaya. We have kept the telegrams and the recordings of our conversations with
foreign officials. On 5 September we closed our airspace and our airports when the
Kill DC-9 was hijacked. We are the only country in the world which applies Islamic
law against terrorism. The aim of all this anti-Libyan propaganda is simply to make
us deviate from our revolu ionary goals.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: According to information fromFrench sources, Libya would like to buy
nuclear arms and would be preapred to pay a very high price for achieving nuclear capa-
bility. Why?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: Your information is false. We would like to acquire nuclear
technology--not arms--for peaceful purposes: Energy, Agricultural developmen,. and so
forth. The world should adopt this as a universal principle.
JEUNE APRIQUE: Have you been promised help in this sphere either by France or the
Soviet Union?
Mutammar al-Qadhdhafi: We are still trying and we are quite prepared to enter into
negotiations with the United States about nuclear technology, as was the case with
As-Sadat. The United States should help us to develop in thic~ sphere, especially if it
fears that we could buy nuclear arms. The guarantees which it imposes when supplying nu-
clear technology should be another reason, from its own viewpoint, for helping us. If
it did, it would. be completely aware of what is going on.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: We will help the blacks to secure their rights by any means.
Many other countries will do the same if the white racist minorities remain intransigent
with respect to the question of power for the Black majority.
JEUNE AFRIQUE: Your former comrades, now in exile, assert that you suffer from acute
migraine and go through periods of profound depression followed by moments of intense
euphoria. Do you feel different fromother people?
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: I do not suffer from migraine. I have only had sinus trouble
but I have been cured. Problems do not affect my health. On the contrary, they stimu-
late me and I forget my troubles as a result.
Mu'ammar al-Qadhdhafi: I do not have a set schedule with respect to work and sleep.
I work until my eyes feel tired and then I lie down, sometimes for 30 minutes and
someti es for 3-4 hours, before going back to my office or my official duties. I do
this all the time whether it is night or day.
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