SY HERSH'S KISSINGER SAGA

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90-00965R000402830032-3
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: February 7, 2012
• Sequence Number: 32
• Publication Date: April 27, 1982
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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I Declassified in Part - Sanitized Copy Approved for Release 2012/02/08: CIA-RDP90-00965R000402830032-3
ON PAGE 27 April 1982
"The zoo's going here, hyena time,
barking dogs ...:"
Seymour Hersh is on the phone,
talking to two people at once, or is it
three? It's hard to keep track. The
phone keeps ringing and ringing-
friends, reporters, sources, potential
sources, his editor, his lawyer, TV
people, radio talk-show people, and
God knows who else. Hersh is really
getting off on it-up to a point. His
rapid-fire, tough-reporter responses
bounce off the beige walls of his
stark, one-room office in the Nation-
al Press Building
"It's a big story, isn't it," Hersh
says gleefully to his editor, Bill
Whitworth, calling from Boston. "It's
been sensational, the response has
been overwhelming-very strong ...
.People are calling," Hersh says jok-
ingly, "Larry Eagleburger is calling
to recant his lies ... They're after
Kissinger. No answer yet. He's wait-
ing for his lawyer to tell him what to
do..."
It's the day after publication of
the Atlantic's excerpts from the Pu-
litzer Prize-winning investigative re;
porter's forthcoming book about
Nixon and Kissinger and their con-
duct of foreign policy. The excerpts
have, not unexpectedly, created a
stir, what with detailed revelations
of wiretapping, drunkenness, and
intense, often vicious jockeying for
power between Kissinger and Alex-
ander M. Haig Jr. in the Nixon
White House.
Sy Hersh, media junkie that he is,.
'has been closely monitoring the cov-
erage-some good, some not so good.
To one caller he ticks off the big
front-page play-Boston Globe, Chi-
cago Tribune, Los Angeles Herald-
Examiner, The Washington Post,
By Richard Lee
Special to The Washington Post
.among others.
Some of the wire-service' coverage
really distresses him, not to mention
talk-show hosts who haven't read the
article. "They're all looking for the
soft-porn stuff, Nixon staggering
around drunk in the White House.
'Where's the smoking gun?' they ask.
t's a dense story. I'm inside in a way
hat only three years can get you.
It's good enough to stand on its own
merits.. I'm not going to produce 350
bodies every time I write a story. I'm
not going to play that game. I made
no effort to sensationalize anything.
I didret sharpen it up. If somebody
there's no smoking gun, they're,
says
.
not reading it right. I think it's there
implicitly, and if the press wants it
explicitly, that's their problem. _-
Ilive in Plato's
"My problem is
,
,Republic," Hersh says. "I want ev-
erybody to read it carefully, and dis-
cuss every nuance." -
Has Kissinger read it? "Do I
know? He may not have, right? He'
says -he hasn't read it. Time. maga-
zine~_ got a copy last week," Hersh
says. "We made the not illogical as-
sumption that he would have read it.
I- certainly did not send him a copy:
I would think that would be very
provocative, to send him that." It's
known, Hersh says, that ABC's Ted
Koppel, on friendly terms with Kiss-
inger, slipped him an advance copy.
So did NBC's Roger Mudd.
-_ A Long Slog
Hersh initially said "no" five years
ago when Summit Books editor Jim
Silberman, a longtime friend, pro-
posed a book about Kissinger. Hersh
was the New York Times' ace inves-.
iga ive reporter at the time, virtu-
ally wor unto himself at the pa-
per,-
s
e
i
--
the CIA's domestic me
gence activities, the see -bombing
bt~ North Vietnam, and issnger s,
wiretapping of his c oses sides at
the State Department, among oth-
ers. Hersh is also generally cre it
with "saving the Times' ass," as one
colleague put it,, on Watergate. WhyI
should he do a book about someone
he thought was "finished .. would
just fade away from public view?"-.;
But Silberman', who edited David`
Halberstam's "The 'Best find ' the
Brightest," among other best sellers,
persisted. "My feeling was, two or:
years ago, when the air was
three
,
getting pretty thick with memoirs,'
we should have a view from an out-
sider Silberman recalls.
Hersh finally agreed to take it on;
even though it meant moving his
family back to Washington (his wife,
Elizabeth, is a physician; they have
three children, Matthew, 14, Melissa,
,12.,,, and Joshua,. eight. months), _It
also `meant quitting;: the Times,.
which does not, grant leaves of ' ab-
sence.
At the beginning, the main, focus '
was on Kissinger, Now it" may' not
be. "It started: out-as the foreign poi-
icy of Kissinger," says Hersh:' "It be
came Kissinger and. Nixon: It'started
out, let's get a look at the policy, and
gradually developed," he. says. He's
written '42 : chapters, "two tore' to
go," he says-about a month and'a,
half more ? "of work on the book,.
which will run close to "a half a mil-
lion words," Hersh estimates, and is
scheduled for publication early next
year. There will be one more excerpt
in the Atlantic in the fall.
It has been, to put it mildly, a.
long slog. "I., suppose I've been in
contact, over three years, with 1,000 ?
people, and that's not hype," Hersh
says. . ,
There's been a lot of travel, eating
up the $200,000 advance from his
publisher, recently necessitating a
second advance. "I. went around the'
world," Hersh says. "I went to Eu-
rope, I saw some people in Paris,
some Germans. I went.to Asia: Sin-
gapore, Hong Kong. I went to Viet-
nam to see the foreign minister,
Nguyen Co Thach; who was the sen-
ior aide to Le Due Tho at the peace
.talks, and others involved in the
peace talks process. I've seen South
Vietnamese officials, Chinese govern-
ment officials, the Pakistanis, the
Indians, - Egyptians, Israelis, you
name 'em. I've also seen Cubans and
Chileans. Chile is a major part of my
book, not in length, but in terms of
research. Chile is sensational," Hersh
says. '
'The methodology was this: The
first year I- flew all over, to see ev-
erybody who. had. documents, it was
- absolutely obsessive, but I had to cut
back,-otherwise I. would have. gone
broke. And I would interview some-
body in Europe or Asia and the next
day I' would see' them on the. street
in Washington4." By and large, every-
body. I wanted to : ' see . ,comes to
Washington, anyway:" _
/-/17-TTTATT
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States, of course. "East coast up anu
clown, West Coast ... in the first
year, I did .nothing but interviews,
and I tried to do 10 a week, some-
times two a day. I must have collect-
ed 300 or 400 of them. I interviewed
people in, strange sequences. Some
people I've seen 25 times, a number
of people five and 10 times." Long
interviews, Hersh says. A t0-hour
interview starting-with drinks and
progressing through dinner. and fin-
ishing well after -midnight was not
unusual.
Hersh takes from a file drawer the
National Security Council home ad-
dress list of July 19, 1969:
"It's like `All the President's
Men'- you . start with [they list]:
There's no magic to it.'"
In any number. of: NSC : cases,
Hersh says, there was=an eagerness
to cooperate-and curiosity . as , to'
why he waited- so long to' call.
"There's a certain cachet about it-in
the minds of some of these people,"
Hersh says: "I tell them, `I saved you
for last because I think you have the_
most information' "
But there were other reasons
The way some people'will help me,
they think this is the Seymour
Hersh trek through ancient history,"
he says. "But other people who have
been victimized' by Henry, who had`
their phones bugged by Henry, they
feel betrayed. It's all left a very bad-
taste, and they'see.me as a savior,'.a
mouthpiece. You know, one person,
a' deputy' assistant ? secretary of de-
fense, told me of a high-level meet-
ing where he warned Kissinger that
one action he was going-to try would
-be,illegal. Kissinger said, as far,'as he
:was concerned an ill eagle was asick
bird. They all laughed. Maybe it was-
witty, but it wasn't very funny. Peo-.
ple remember that moment; they
remember the humiliation they felt.
"The important thing to remem-..
ber," Hersh emphasizes, "is, I'm not
getting this from Abbie.. Hoffman.
I'm getting this inside 'the giouer m
ment, totally. and completely inside
.the government. I'm talking to peo-
ple who worked in Henry's office; in
Mel Lairds. office;' in. Bill Rogers
office.
. "The.' people.. who Fare the - most'
helpful tome, somehow, the Ehrlich-
mans, the Colsons, have gone to jail.
1. found' those' people, by and large, ;
to be much more honest, 'less self-'
serving.. Maybe: it's -because- they
have nothing 'to. lose., Maybe we've
created a whole, new, way of'-truth-
telling," he suggests.
Hersh- , has had his detractors,
'some- of' them: other=,reporters;- but
siasm and excitement about his
work. He's not laid back about it at
all. I think he takes editing very well.
He understands the need for it, and
values it, and he's pleasant to work
;::with."
.. Hersh, was paid $70,000 for the
-two Atlantic excerpts. He is not a
?rich man. What can he expect to get
from the book? "You mean, besides
gratification?" he asks. "People sa
I'm going to get rich. I don't- think
so. I'll.end up very well paid,for in
work.. I'm. not 'going . to lose money
;'don't be silly." (His editor, Silber
man, who says he has read the
manuscript but has not begun ed-
iting, confidently: expects it to be a
best seller.) "People think I got rich
on My Lai [the My Lai. Massacre
"stories won Hersh . the Pulitzer and
other prizes in 1970 and established
.his reporting reputation]. The book
sold very , poorly-25 or 30,000
copies." He gets hate mail.. People
'meeting him for the first time often
!.find him pushy, abrasive and obnox-
ious, a hyperkinetic wild. man.
'He continues to give lectures. "My
fast ball is , gone," he says.. "I only
speak to colleges. It isn't as if the
boys at Mobil are interested in'me."
He also continues to write sporad-
ically for. The New York Times.
Hersh's relationship with The Times
'is a complex one, he readily acknowl-
,edges. Despite entreaties from senior
editors' , in Washington _ and. New
'York, Hersh did not give The Times'
an adiiance copy of his Atlantic sto-
ry. The Times-put the story on page'
B5. Hersh was appalled. "A major-'
Teague lack ' of class,". he calls
'it. "They're acting like a. rejected
suitor.
"Working at- The New York.
'Times was a form of bondage, but I.
always enjoyed it," Hersh says. "You
notice I keep on writing for them.
I'm basically loyal, in a peculiar way.
It's a very, very 'good place to write
stories. It's credible, the editing is
very good. It's a. love-hate relation-,
ship. This week it actually went to
hate. Next week .. "
Hersh is an avid tennis player, but
hasn't been on the courts. since last
November, due to his work schedule.
The Hershes live in Cleveland Park,
"with a dog, a cat, and a gerbil," he
says. Merition of Henry Kissinger's
name is forbidden at the dinner ta-
ble. Hersh, who grew up in Chicago,
`just turned 45. On his office floor
next to a pile of interview notes and
documents is a crayon drawing from
,his daughter, Melissa.. "You're sar
Happy 55th (Ho Ho) Birthday."
Hersh is a family man, enjoys telling
anecdotes about his children, avoids
the social circuit.-
A Time magazine photographer
appears to get the latest update of
the classic Sy Hersh picture-work-
ing the phone, exuding scruffy integ-
rity in an ink-stained Brooks Broth-
ers ? oxford cloth shirt, tie askew.
Hersh is delighted by the irony in
this. The magazine, with great sense
of occasion, recently ran long ex-
cerpts from Kissinger's just-pub-
lished second' volume of memoirs,
"Years ' of Upheaval," which Hersh
found "laughable."
Personalities and Prejudices .
"It's not _ a, :coffee-table book,"
Hersh says: "I'm really going to try'
to write diplomatic history, but that
sounds too fancy.. The ultimate goal'
of the book-this is a book about
how people and personalities shape
policy incredibly more than you'
think. Personalities; prejudices and
people It says some very, very
important decisions are ~ made for
treasons that stagger the imagination.
We don't know how profound it is.
"I don't think we've ever had a
White House like that," he goes on.
'"I think we really bottomed out'
there in terms of personal-integrity."
A man of Hersh's reporting. rep-
utation feels obliged to go after the
big stories, the big targets, and
Henry,Kissinger certainly qualifies.
Hersh has been described. 'as Kiss
inger's "nemesis," his book an ideo-
',.logical vendetta against- the man.
:(On the "Phil Donahue" show com-'
menting 6n-the Hersh article,' Kiss
inger-said he found it full of "sly in-
nuendoes" and "fairly contemptible
.
gossip.")
' Hersh insists he has no personal
animus toward Kissinger. "I don't
know the guy," Hersh says. "I've
talked to him five times in my life. I
went to see Henry in the White
House. once. He. asked me to brief
him after I'd been to Hanoi. He ?
seemed distracted and bored.
"He does fascinate me," Hersh
admits. "It's the policies that fasci-
nate me. There's not much about
Henry Kissinger we don't know. I've
been around such people all my life.'
We all have an uncle like that, a
mixed bag of a person ....
"Henry's most enduring diploma-
cy was with the press corps," Hersh
CO
If
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The book, Hersh says, "is not per-
sonally directed at Henry. It's direc-
ted at his policies. I'm not trying to
write about his personal life at all,'
except when it enters into relations
at the White House. The atmos-
phere of that White House is very
significant-the bad vibes, the
murky, clubhouse atmosphere, the
back-stabbing, the insecurities, the
paranoia, although I hate that word.
What we got for it was a lot of bad
foreign policy. Haig is still playing
by the rules of the . Nixon White.
House-you can see the effect now, , .
the buildup in Central America .:. "
A. few days later; asked.on Nation-'
al Public Radio if one couldn't make
the case that Kissinger, and Haig,
were just doing their jobs very well,,
were there to serve their master and
carry out orders, and what was
wrong with that, Hersh answered:
"You have a question of truth, a
question of justice, a question of why
some people went to jail and others
didn't, a question of people who had
in their hands the right to commit
other people to life and death ... To
give that much power to those peo-
ple and not hold them to a reason-'
able standard of conduct and to' say
that they can behave any damn way
they want to and then, forever per-
petuate the lie-write memoirs ... I
get outraged. That's what I'm oper-
ating out of. -I don't' even know
Henry Kissinger. I've only had a few
conversations with him and a few
questions with Al Haig. I know their
policy.
"And nowhere. do I find any-
where-looking at these guys hard .
over a four-year period, including
the Vietnam. war, the Bangladesh
war-nowhere did anybody ever say
to himself, `How many lives is this
going to cost? What' is the human
toll of this particular policy?' No-
body- ever talked -that way.' You
--don't want me to hold that guy to a
reasonable standard? I'm going A o:
hold him to a reasonable standard
...'no mercy."
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