INTERVIEW WITH UNIDENTIFIED GENERAL CONCERNING PSYCHICS, FORENSIC PSYCHOMOTRISTS, REMOTE VIEWERS, DEVINERS, AND PALM READERS

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): NSA-RDP96X00790R000100020028-6
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 8
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 24, 2013
• Sequence Number: 28
• Publication Date: July 30, 1982
• Content Type: REPORT

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SECRET
NO FOREIGN DISSEMINATION
U.
SECTION II
CANNON
TRAIL
UNITED STATES ARMY
INTELLIGENCE
AND SECURITY COMMAND
CLASSIFIED BY:
CDR, USA1NSCOM
REVIEW ON:
22 FEBRUARY 2002
SECRET
Formerly Restricted Data
Unauthorized disclosure
subject to administrative and
criminal sanctions. Handle as
restricted data on foreign dissemination.
Section 144b
NO FOREIGN DISSEMINATION
ORIGINATOR CONTROLLED
Atomic Energy Act 1954
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NOFORN SECRET OFICCIA
people in Iran reading these propaganda statements and that was sort of a
personal thing with me. But this is a recommendation, that I'm gonna
recommend for a change in this. I would advocate that people read
dam thing that people ask them to read. I was prepared to tell them
that, if they insisted I read a propaganda statement. That it would be e
useless gesture on their part, because people would know that's not the
way I feel about it. That would be the basis of my recommendation for
changing our guidelines for people in situations like I'm in.
:
B: This is in the same category of housecleaning question that came in
yesterday frcm the observation group. If the police had surrounded the
apartment and demanded that the Red Brigade surrender, as opposed -to
storming the facility the way they ultimately carried it out,' do you
-think that the Red Brigade would have surrendered or that they would have
= shot it out? And what do you think would have happened to you? ?
D: Based on what I know now, I think they would have probably execut-ed
me. There is no death penalty in Italy and I think, probably, they'd have
gotten the sane, sentence for the kidnapping as they'd got for killing Me
so there was no percentage in that. I was concerned about that, and I
just hoping that if it was forceful type release, that they go by it sane'
other way.
B: Do you think they would have shot it out with the police and executed
you anyway?
D: No, I think they would have executed me and surrendered. That's based
cn what I know now.
B: Now we want to get into another area and I'm not quite as familiar
with this as some of the others, so I'll let them carry the ball for a few
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minutes if you don't mind.
D: O.K.
B: General, you indicated earlier that you have heard about same of the
efforts taken by various people around the world to find your location and
this series of questions will deal with the efforts of psychics, forensic
psychcmotrists remote viewers, deviners, palm readers and so forth.
D: Nuts!
B: O.K. Sir. Some other specific questions. During your captivity, did
you find yourself doing anything specific to enhance your awareness of
your surroundings. In other words, in developing your senses further than
they had been developed prior to your captivity?
D: Yea, I was forced to rely upon my ears for contact with the outside
world so I became very, very aware of sounds. It went through my mind on
several nccagions as to whether I could transfer a thought to my wife or
not. In other words, this extra-sensory perception or something like
this. I made several conscientious efforts to do that and I made a number
of conscientious efforts to be receptive to something that maybe she was
doing. But as far as I know, that was a complete and utter failure. But
it was a consideration that I did and I made an attemot.
B: For the record, the results of that are not in yet, as you probably
are aware, General, there were literally thousands of leads that came in
arid,, seeing your debriefing in Italy already, there seems to be a couple
of common threads that seam to fit in which we can explore later when we
study that.
B: General, what senses were most useful to you in determining your loca-
tion surrounding, was it your hearing that you mentioned earlier?
D: My hearing, yes.
B: Sir, you mentioned several times in press conferences and here the
power of prayer and being on the receiving end of that ...
D: Yep.
B: Did you ever feel that friendly forces were trying to communicate with
you telepathically?
D: Well, this is what I was talking about with regard to my wife. I
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tried to be attuned to that. I thought it was worth a try, but I can't
honestly say that we were successful. I can give you one example on the
prayer business. Well, a couple of times I'd be there playing cards, and
usually it would be after one of our discussions or questioning sessions.
On one occasion I can remember, as I was going through there, I thought;
what would who's a teacher in the Verona school; what would
he be thinking about the way that I handled a certain situation. Now
background is; he used to be a LT in the Army, he's been in Verona
for 316 years, since WWII and whatnot; married to a lovely Italian lady.
And there is no reason why I Should have singled him out as being a critic
of my conduct. Turns out later that he was one of the ones who led same
very special powerful prayer efforts on our behalf. Another occasion the
thought flashed through my mind with regard to a friend of ours who had
been back in the states, when all of this happened, as to what she would
tell my wife upon this friend's return from the States, when they first
met somewhere. And the situation I envisioned was a telephone call from
this lady, Mts. Brown, General Brown's wife, to Judy to the effect, that I
go back to the States, and things go to hell around here. What the hell
is going on? As it turns out, that's almost exactly the encounter that
took place when they met.uo in Frankfurt and it turns out she is, was
involved in a rather powerful prayer effort, these types of things.
B: General did you have any dreams of persons trying to communicate with
you?
D: Yeah, my wife. In fact I think there was one instance where / may
have been awakened by; and this has happened to me before, and I was
wakened by somebody that I thought was calling my name, .or saying my name
the way my wife would have said it.
B: Other than your wife Sir, did you ever hope, or did you try to project
your thoughts to somebody else, or your feelings?
El: No. Other than through prayer.
B: CK Sir. Other than your friend in Verona, your school teacher, did
you ever hold recurring, vivid mental images in your mind, other than the
one you just described?
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4.JFAIN ,c1/4nc.
D: I think that probably at one time or another during that six weeks,
that I had a mental image of most of the friends I have in the world,
people that I hadn't thought about for years.
B: OK Sir. Did the term psychic or psychometrics come up at all with
your captors.
D: No.
B: And, General, we'd like to hear your personal views toward the psychic
phenomenon - the whole realm I mentioned before, remote viewing, dividing
and so forth.
D: Let me start out by saying they drove General McFadden nuts, and I
think he said - I don't know whether you overheard him or not - but
he said that if he ever has to do it again, they ain't gonna be involved.
That it was a complete and utter waste of time. This isn't really
psychic, but we have a series of letters from a gal named
isn't it?
from Tucson or Phoenix, Arizona that just about
hit the sequence of events right on the head, and she wrote these letters
at periodic intervals, and I think they're in Italy, unfortunately. She's
the only one that I'm aware of that came even, and I don't know the lady,
that came even close to what actually happened. There may be more.
ven't been through all my mail. But, according to McFadden, this was a
complete and utter waste of time. Now let me qualify what I'm talking
about, and after what I just said, that feeling probably is in contrast-
don't want to belittle the psychic phenomenon, but, in this parrielnlAr
situation George McFadden said that it was a complete and utter bust,, so
t's about what I can tell you about it.
In light of the, what I consider the enormous amount of time and
fort that went in collecting these mostly unsolicited leads and for-?
ding them to Italy, most of us felt that we didn't want to take the,
of not forwarding one and cashing it off as a crank. Because one
them may have contained the piece of the puzzle needed to find you, and
all pretty much felt like that. What is your view, General, in the
fact that maybe one of your fellow generals was in your place and you were
ng thousands of psychic leads - would you feel that way also? That
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you would want to forward them for whatever use they could be made?
D: If I were working with constrained resources, as everybody does in a
situation like this. If I was in Charge, and boy this is really hypothe-N
tical, it's one of these "if I were doing it" type thing, and I may be so
far out in left field that I don't even see the ballgame, I think if 17
were working with constrained resources that would be one of the last
things I would devote resources to.
B: During your captivity, Sir, we got a couple of indications from the'
Italian authorities, that they turned off the flu4. We can't handle all
these. We're trying to run them down conscientiously, but we just don!
have the manpower and resources. We Also got indication frau the Italians
and, again my channel of informations, yeah, give us all the psychic 1
you get your -hands on and we'll run them down. Now we were really
fused during that time and we'd like to know if you can shed some light-on
that.
D: I cannot at all. Perhaps can.
M: The Caribineri were very upset. They start following them, you know
as a way of paying resoect to the advice that was provided by the Embassy
But after they took one trip to Milan with a psychic who came over
Washington, and they wasted the whole day, and they were working r
throughout twenty, almost tm:trIcur hours a day. He said he
packed him an the plane and said go to, you know where and, I ream
whole psychic effort has been discredited forever with any Italians, with
anything to do with the investigation, and this is mcst emphatic.
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B:
NI:
D:
M:
D:
M:
B:
D:
B:
Well, what of
It was Blanco.
Blanco, OK.
Yeah, Colonel
She hit it, she
About two thousand
TWo thousand!
No, no a dozen,
that
General?
telegrams she sent.
dozen ...
that the entire psychic
...
two
said
you
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realm has possibly
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?V V
discredited. For future situations like yours General, as you know there
re a lot of psychics who will provide unsolicited information and we also
'l lame psychics available who have what we (7,111 a track record with local
police departments, detective bureaus and so forth. Do you think it would
:,be worthwhile in another situation like General Dozier's to pursue, at
least with those people who have some kind of a track record in providing
'information, whatever that track record might be? D: Depends. It
depends on your resources. I think good police work is hard to beat.
: OK Sir.
B: (Another panel member) I think you have same more questions in that
?realm?
: Can you shed same light on the questicn you asked about why one area
was cutting them off and one area was asking for 'em. For the record, we
an official in Rome, a Simi official, who had an aunt or a grand-
mother who was into this psychic feeling, and he wanted these reports
-because he was acting upon them.
OK.
: So that's why they had one lead who wanted them and the rest of the
system was cut off.
Let's see if these terms mean anything, or if they have any relevance.
Trella or Troella? San Martino?
I think I may have heard that but I don't remember the context.
11: Nct San Martino. -c.
San Martino.
San Michele?
No, and I think I'd have been sensitive to that because we've got a
communications site that's called the Sanmequela Bunker .amd I was sen-
.
sitive to that.
B: Now the next one is marva ... and I asked I don't believe (b)(6)
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