TRANSCRIPT SPECIAL SESSION 812 (Sanitized) SESSION TWO

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00788R000500940001-4
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 43
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: September 5, 2003
• Sequence Number: 1
• Content Type: TRANS

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TRANSCRIPT
SPECIAL SESSION 812
SESSION TWO
SG1
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#00: From the latitude and longitude that you
gave us, along with the photograph
it is apparent that the building is in the
Washington, D.C. area. And, what I'd like
to have you consider, and we can discuss
this after the session, is whether or not
you want to do. . . it's been my observation,
particularly in. . in the last experience
that #99 has had working in the archeological
area in Egypt of the value of proximity. We
have been working on that project for over a
year from here. From the United States. And
while the input has been in some cases amazingly
detailed, what #99 has reported after being on
site -- on the (not audible) and the sphynx and
this area, reinforces what the literature has
told us and #99 . . by previous experience is
that there is . . there is importance, that
proximity is important. What I'm suggesting
is a consideration of driving to and around
the building and . . to see what additional
information #99 can pick up by being closer
to the target. You know, I'd like to have you
just think about that as a. . as we go through
the thing.
#6.5: I am not in a position to make a decision on
that.
#6.5: Okay. Granted, I know that it is in the
Washington, DC area - whatever that means -
within a radius of 20 miles I guess. But, I
do not know and have never been to the building.
Okay. So.
#00: Well, its a suggestion and you may want to pass
it on. You know we could do that Friday morning
and I could . . we could cut the tape in the car.
#6.5: Um hm.
#00: And make it available to you.
#6.5: Okay. Fine. I will. . I will. be back on . .
one. . two. . I probably will give you a call
Thursday night<
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#00: Okay. All right.
SG1A
SG1A was given 0 On several occasions on
#00: All right, #99, we have . . let's take
. . . discuss the three points. First of
all I would like to have a . . a real
concentrated effort - and I will try to
assist you in this in being very sure of
where we are operating as a. function of time.
This is not a problem, but this is something
that we must recognize - that you have a
capability of shifting the time forward and
back, as well as operating in the current
ti.meframe, so . . what we're interested in
in this room and this building is what is
going on contemporarily -- at the present time.
And, lot's see if we can clear up the . . the
issue of the number of the room. The room
SG1A the tape, and I corrected you one time, after
you had said =I said 0 and you didn't,
you didn't say anything, you just went on.
Is there a significance of 0 or was that
just simply a lapse on your part as far as
the number is concerned.
#99: No. It isn't because. . . I remember numbers
very well. In other words, anythin sychically
that comes as a number, you know, these
numbers are clear. The 303 number came in as
a flash into my mind that I had to pa some
attention to number I said ]room and
I'm going to stick w1. that because o e
psychic input that I have there. That it must
have some reference in some way which we did
not discuss, to
#00: Well, let's have a little. . a, small debate
about this #99. You know,.I accept what you
said, but I recall at least on one occasion,
you were - I don't think in an altered state
of consciousness - I think we were having a
discussion like much as we are now and in the
pattern of speech you said in room0 Now,
you know, I think that was a . . I don't think
that was a psychic input at that point, but of
course you could have had the imprint of =
at that point. But I am recalling on one occasion
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how was used by you. A
#99: If it was in error, from my previous work, I
would have not repeated it twice, once I was
corrected or three times. That's a very
important factor I found with I I also.
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#99: As such now. Whether there is a room in
that building, I don't know. I mean I have
not, you know, made that whole statement in
there such. But there's something connected
with in the building.
#6.5: The problem that that posed for me was some of
your other statements saying that one something
spontaneously leaps out at you, whether it be a
number or whatever, it usually is significant.
#00: Okay.
#6.5: The way it came up at least once in the text
and the way you're explaining it now, that you
may have gone to because that was more
important to you than the mission you're on.
#99: Let me put it . . . It wasn't more important
than the mission that I was on, but had some
relation to the mission that I was on.
#6.5: 11mm. Well, we'd like to. . . If we could,
divert slightly. . .
SG1A
#99: And go back to
#6.5: Go to II
#99:
We had ignored that in the very beginning.
And later on proved that whether its
room II or " connecte with that room,
but I did say room It had some signifi-
cance. I mean in o ier areas. So I am not
going to dismiss it.
#6.5: Just slightly. And tell us about
#00:
That's fair. Let's try to clear the issue
up, #99.
#99: Okay. Can we come 'back to that question.
#00: Okay.
#99: I would like it to come back as spontaneous
as we go on to the. . . Let me . . Let me
put it this way, as we're talking I'm getting
like a connection and I'm going to put it a
connection like . . . as if I was walking
from one area that is very highly specific
or specified into another area which would
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SGIA
#00: Front in the sense. that . . that you enter
into nd aftelr you have negotiated that
then allows you egress, access rather to
SG1A the. .0 or something like that. Or do you
mean front in some other sense.
#00: Okay. Well, let me ask a couple questions
and you may . . just for you to think about.
When you say front, you know, that term, I'm
not sure I understand what a front means so
I want to find out what you mean when you say
front.
#99: All right.
SGIA
#99: Yeah. What it means. . Front means. . What I
mean is that . . . . you would walk in
there and let s say that it was an insurance
company, . . .
#00: Okay.
#99: And it really isn't an insurance company, it
deals with an insurance company and may have
a legitimate license as an insurance cog any.
But really its feeding material to insurance
#00: Okay, so you're using front in a sense of
. . of cover.
#99: Cover.
#00: Okay.
SG1A
SGIA SG1A
SG1A
#99: See, from the very beginning when you gave me
all right, the room was not enough for me.
#00: All right. Well, let's explore that. Is
give me 0 All right. Where it would be
a front. All right. That's the only way I
can explain it. At this point.
and 0 adequate or are there other rooms
also in . . . connected in the sense, perhaps
not physically connected, but conceptually
connected in that they're supportive of each
other.
#99: At this present time I have to say this much.
That the only two rooms, or two number that
I'm getting and I'm going to use numbers instead
of rooms is 0 and Now, most of the time
yesterday, I was in ~ but there are areas
that I feel, and this came you know, when I was
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 walking and when. . I was so silent through
. . the route of the car and again this
morning. . . that I have strongly felt that
at certain points as I was seeing something
in one room, all right, the shift easily
could have been into 0 and one of these
things that the shift could be into was this
high mechanical or what it was mechanical
thing --- but I am not sure and that is why I
have to go return into the room.
#00: Okay.
#99: Do you follow. In other words, that some of
the equipment that I was seeing was. . it was
like a split screen. All right. But showing
me the relationship at the same time from one
room to another.
#00: All right, we have several . . .
#99: Do you follow. . do you follow that?
#0.0: We. . yeah, we have several possibilities
SG1A
SG1A
SG1A
then. That while the sketch you drew yesterday
of 0 it maybe still essentially accurate and
that there is some ap aratus, machinery at one
end and also some in or that you in fact had
merged to the contents of two rooms and that the
machinery and perhaps something else is in
and not in or that there is machinery in
both rooms. I mean, these are three obvious
options. A fourth option is that there are other
rooms besides O and 0 and we will have to
explore this today. And, of course, I would be
interested if there is machinery in both rooms,
#99, if there is a connection. That is, if the
machines themselves - like a computer you may
have the main terminal, you may have the main
processing unit in one room, but terminals in
other rooms and connected by just normal wire
linkage, that sort of thing.
#99: Let me. . pose something as a picture running
SG1A through my min Let's say. . . let's say
here I am inlI and let me say that I have
a geographical, what I can see of the room,
don't get me wrong. And my ? . (not audible)
another option here that I have to consider
SG1A psychically. Let's say that one of the rooms
within 0 is 0 In other words, am I seeing
you know, another room, in there. I'm not
saying psychically that it is, I'm merely opening
the option that it may all be, you know, one
floor which appears more at this time, some kind
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SG1A
of like. . I cannot visualize the room as
being one room 0 like this. It is extended
for me from what I could gather last night as
I was moulding over it. It is not one that
I walk into a small room and here is room 0 SG I
and its just a small room. There is an extension
that I see and that's what last night -- I was A
very silent and I was trying to put together,
what is this extension. Is this extension
another room connected with it, or a separate
room. But =did play an. important part in SGI
my thinking last night, because I realized
that I have never come out with a number that A
is not meaningful..
#00: Okay, #99, just before we went on tape, another
possibility is that 0 has a significance other SGI
than a room number.
A
#99: Than a room number.
#00: And so we'll try to explore those this morning.
All right, let's get back to another concern
that was. expressed. That is, the concept of a
leakage or information leaving the suite of
rooms. And, I think just for terminology and so
SG1A as to not to bias what will come out later, whether
its =or I'll simply state that when I SGI
SG1A say the suite, 1 mean the suite that the nominal
entrance is II because that is the target. But A
SG1A I'm gonna to refer to it as the suite now instead
of 0 and I'm not gonna mention 0 I want you SGI
SG1A to bring that up and clear. that up for us. The
concern is, that the suite, which is the target A
the entrance of which is 0 the leak of inform-
ation, is that information leakage contemporary.
Is that going on right now?
#99: The answer is yes. And very strongly yes. I
am going to return to some of the images that
I got while we were driving in the car last
night.
#00: All right.
#99: There is again a feeling, and I have to express
that as a feeling more than an image, that there
is a group in which I feel, and I'm not going to
give any nationality, it could be the United
States at this time, I have not made any, any
. . 'where some information is being received,
or certain information is gotten into which this
leakage of information leaves this room. Now . .
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I have a. . . . . I have a problem. All right.
I have a problem. And the problem is this, sir.
On the one side, my psychic says something and
on the other side it says something else. And,
I'm not trying to confuse myself, its just that
I have to give you the impression. The psychic
impression is that whatever is going there . . .
all. right. . . someone within the government
knows of the activity. That's a strange state-
ment.
#00: Well, let me . . let me ask a supplementary
question. When you say, knows of the activity
I think that we can presume that the customer
for this particular enterprise knows something
of the operation or is concerned about the
operation. Is that what you mean by knows the
operation?
#99: No. No. I don't. That's not what I mean.
#00: Oh. Can you be more precise about what you
mean?
#99: Yeah. I mean . . . I have to play the double-
edge sword again. And when I mean double-edge
sword, I mean there seems. . . there is someone
in there . . . all right. . . . . . let me
rephrase that in my thoughts and I have to give
that correctly to you.
Its only an example and its the only way I can
give it to you because I'm not. . . I'll give
it as an example. Let's say that I am a customer.
I am a customer. That as a customer I also have
a contract from somebody, you know. And that I'm
playing the contract as a role so that somebody
else would not know what's going on. I'm not
referring to what we're doing here, I'm merely
referring that this way - there is something here
where someone within our government, and I am not
saying just the customer knows. . .
#00: I. . . I'm a little confused, #99. I didn't
follow your example very adequately enough.
#99: All right. Let me. . Let me put it this way.
And this is only an example to give you. . so
that we understand our own jargon. Let us say
that the Pentagon got someone to do some work.
Here they hired this room or rooms. The work
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is going on for the Pentagon, but the people
in the room, you know. . there's nothing.
they're going on their business in what they're
getting. Its for their work. They're doing
their work, but its really somebody reporting
to the Pentagon. But the others don't know.
#00: All right.
#99: Do you follow what I'm saying?
#6.5: Are you saying that they wouldn't know that
they are working for the government?
#99: For the government or. . . I'm not saying that
nobody knows. I'm merely saying that the
implication of the information would go to the
government.
#00: Okay.
#99: All right. Do you follow what I'm trying to
say. That's only an example.
#00: Okay, but is that. . is an example rather
precise in the sense that you said someone
in the government knows that there is a contract-
ing officer in the Pentagon, who monitors what
goes on in the office. Is that what you mean by
someone in the government knows?
#99: I will have to return that because I've gotta
go back to some information that's being :fed
to me.
#00: Yeah. I thought that we had discussed,
yesterday, that the . . that this firm. . or
what goes on in the room was in fact sponsored
by the government. Do you recall that?
#99: I don't recall it.
#00: Yeah.
#99: You know. . you .
#00: You know, this ground sounds familiar so I'm
not sure that we're coming up with anything
new which is all right.
#99: No. I'm merely. I'm merely reputting the
input of what I'm trying to restate whatever
was said yesterday.
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#00: Well okay, but let's don't worry about what
was said yesterday.
#99: No no no. I'm not. I'm just saying that I
don't remember what I said yesterday and I'm
just going back over some of the things.
#00: Well, let me make a . . put it in a straight-
forward question. Is the activity in room, in
this suite, government related in that they are /
a contractor that does work for the government?
They may do work for other . . . activities,
commercial work, but do they do work for the
government?
#99: The answer is yes. And I don't know in what
way.
#00: Well, you know, if we don't. . . if it seems
to be a unexceptional yes, this. . well yes,
that's what they do. . . then of course some
one in the government would know, . would know
what goes on.
#99: Its. . Its more deep than that, #00. Its more
deep. It is very. . . . It is very well. . . .
I'm not confused, its just that I want. . . . .
because you need precision and I want to be very
accurate in what we're doing, you know, in here.
There are . . . I keep seeing people in this
room - more than . . as I'm seeing it now, people
working. There are things going on. There are
again, papers there. There are all sorts of
things. But that's only a front; - you know,
partially a front. But there is something much"'
deeper for a group of people in that room that
are working on something very secret, very
private, but there's a leakage on that thing
and that's what's troubling me.
#00: Okay, well to summarize it and put it in other
words see if this is acceptable, #99. That
there is a contract that is real, that has some
significance, that employs the efforts of many
or perhaps most of the other people in this
suite. But, either within that contract or
a separate. . undertaking is underway, that is
more vital to the government, if not to the
company of the people working in there. And
it is not generally known to all of the employees
this. And you have used the term, that the
normal operating business or the contract that
they are working on is . . provides some sort
of cover for the more important, more secretive
undertaking. Now is that a reasonable summation v
a
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#99: Yes, that would be an explanation of what
I'm saying.
#00: Okay. Can we put a subject matter to either
of these endeavors? Either the one that
they nominally work on or the one for which
that is provide some cover.
#99: All I can say that the information in which
they put some cover . . is . . . . . how
would I put it . . . . . . . if this does
not follow the regulaties I want to be as
specifically as its clear into my mind.
Again, I repeat. Information is passed
into this office.. or this suite which is
very high or very, very important. Extremely
important. And the injection, again, that
some of this information that's very important
is also leaked out and its coming back over
and over again. Whether the customer knows
or whatever it is, its still coming back.
And, here at this point, comes the number /.
I I
#00: Okay. That's a good link. To follow that,
you're saying that information comes in.
That they're going to use in their analysis
or some, whatever processing they do?
#99: No. Its . . analysis, but something that
is transferrable.
#00: Okay. Well, .let's go into the process of
the . . the people who work there, and let's
call them analysts. And just use that
generally, whatever. . you know, whatever
analytical work it is. They need something
to work on, they need something to read or
to analyze or to massage. That information
comes in. Was that the. . . you said the
information comes in is very high; is that -
did you mean high in the sense of a security
classification, or high in what sense #99?
#99: I'd say high in security.
#00: Okay. Okay. So classified information and
reasonably highly classified information comes
in.
#99: Right. Uh huh. I have to preface that when
you say high, you know, classified information
the answer is yes. I have. . let me give you
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highly classified information. Again,
an image comes to my mind but it may. not
be related to (not audible).
#00: All right. Let's just have it as it comes
in #99.
#99: As it comes in. Let's say that you were
doing a . . . you were gonna send a rocket
to the sky and its something new. And lets
say that these people were working on some
design on this rocket. You know, something
to this effect - the design that they're
going to put in together.
#99: And. . this little piece or whatever it
is, all right that's now, that I would
consider, you know, highly secretive or
highly. . .
#00: Um hm.
#99: The rest isn't.
#00: Okay. An important component part - a vital
part.
#99: A component part of something. Whether its
on a design I'm not sure or whether its a
part itself or . . . that's only as an example.
#00: Um hm.
#99: Something is coming in which . . . no one.
If I was gonna put this here, all right, here
I am. You'd look at an eraser, but let's say
that I could put something in this eraser
that makes it highly valuable. And, I would.
you'd pass me the eraser, I would not know the
difference. Do you follow what I'm trying to
say?
#00: Only generally #99.
#99: Yeah. And you know. . in other words, something
is going on which is being unaware by only a
certain number of people and it seems very
small. Very small (not audible),
#00: Okay, but that. . . is that supposed to go on?
You see, we have . . . I have a problem with
two concepts now. I understand what you're
saying.
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#99: If this is supposed to go on, the answer
is no.
#00: Okay. Okay. But I . . . up to this. .
up until that statement, I had the feeling
that you were telling us that the normal
operation of the office covered a legitimate
additional, other undertaking. Are you
suggesting now that the other undertaking,
the more secretive undertaking, is not
supposed to go on.
#99: Oh, its my wrong. Its my wrong. Its my
wrong interpretation. I'm merely saying
that some of the things within this under-
taking is not supposed to go on.
#00: Okay.
#99: All right?
#00: Okay, so we. . we've established (not audible).
#99: Whatever the undertaking is there which very
few people know on what is being worked in
there. . .
#00: Is legitimate.
#99: Is legitimate.
#00: Okay, but within that operation, what?
#99: Something is illegitimate.-"
#00: Okay, something is going on within the
. . . okay.
#99: But remember that the people . . .
#00: Then that's where the number . . . .
-
#99:
1
comes in.
#00: And that is the area of the leakage also.
#99 : And it appears to me . . .
#00: I got just a. . a ,look from you. Is that
the area where the leakage takes place?
#99: Yes. Yes. And what appears to me is room.
It appears as a room 0 All right. Appears '' SG I
as a room and I have to say that. Room. The
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word Room _ keeps coming back and that's
what I'm not . . . See, I don't know whether
its a room that they have within . . .
because yesterday I drew a. sketch that seemed
to be limited. And that, last night, in my
sleep, woke up from my sleep a couple of times
and everything, that room was too limited for
what when I was relaxed. In other words, it
looked much longer, maybe exaggerated it longer,
but it was much bigger. . than what I had seen.
Now. . and there appears and I have to say this,
appears because psychically I am not sure. But
SG1A there may be - he gave me room 0 but it could
be that there is a series of doors opening
within that compound off that room, those
rooms.
SG1A
#00: Yeah, that's very commonplace #99. Where you
have an entrance that has a number for mailing
purposes, for all sorts of practical purposes,
but its. . . that's why a suggested going to
the concept of a suite. The entrance to suite
F____1 is simply that. It is a controlled entrance.
And once you get in there, there are hallways
that go to separate other rooms, to . . . .
you know, the normal variety of facilities that
you could expect to find. . to support the
number of people that are in there. And . . .
#99: You know, I'm getting psychically, to a very
crucial point here. . as you're talking #00.
#00: Go ahead #99.
#99: Okay. Keep going.
#00: Well, okay, just let that come forward, but
SG1A
SG1A
what I want you to do is what was suggested
off tape that let's, let's try and overview.
Let's try a fly in and I want you to . . to
go into an #99 Two state rather than to try
to do this telepathically. And, a strip off
the la ers of the building and simply focus
on from a vantage point of above and we'll
call it Suite lI And let's see if we can't
get another sketch. Let's try to get another
verbal description of it and try to get
another sketch of this complex.
#99: All right.
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#00: And, if you can,
1 -1
IN! T
7 the location of
#99: All right, I have stripped. . . . . and
the whole thing and I'm looking down. First
of all, lot me . . . there's no roof over
this . , this room now. And all I see is
the back wall and the front as if you were
going in.. I have to ex. . . I see it, at one
side of the building. . . . It is long.
I'm looking down and again, I have to repeat,
please correct me if I'm wrong - there
seemed to be . . . in there what appears and
all I can say---I'm looking down on it, it
appears there are divisions or rooms.
#00: All right.
#99: That is strong - that there are divisions
or rooms. . or something to this effect here.
That it is not . . I am not walking into a
big room where there are . . you know, here I.
there's a whole big room and there's a lot of
people all around. There are separations or
divisions.
#00: All right. We accept that.
#99: Okay.
#00: Let me . . . Let me ask a question #99.
Program yourself, make s we are dealing
with the room the Suite as it looks today.
#99; This is what I'm looking at today.
#00: Okay.
#99: The only -t:hing that I cannot place for you
where I am from on top is what are those
divisions. I have to put in equasion that
they are to me from where I stand and when
I stood. . as rooms or divisions.
#00: Okay. They could be cubicles without going
all the way to the ceiling, the divisions.
but they may . . .
#99: But they do not employ the whole room.
#00: Okay. Now I want you to be able, when you
after this to draw us another sketch #99
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SG1A #00:
In Suite LJ what else do you see beside a
division of separate rooms or cubicles in
that suite? What else is pronounced?
#99: One thing is pronounced again. I have to . .
which really comes back to me. . . . is one
room . . . that's very closed.
#00: All right a closed room.
#99: A closed room. Or a closed . . . I have to
say closed room. 'Cause I keep seeing . , .
what appears to be a door with a window or a ,j
door . . you know, but I cannot see through
the window or something to this effect where
I would go into an area which was a, room.
SG1A
#00: All right. This is one of the rooms inside
of Suite IIthat you call closed. Closed
means what in significance. . .
#99: Its separated from everything else into the
room.
#00: All right.
#99: That's what I'm trying to say.
#00: Is there a conferencing facility in there?
A conference room.
#99: Its not a conference room, but again, adjacent
to it seems to be -- I have to say seemed to be -
what appears to me to be a place where you would
meet, which I would call a conference room.
SG1A
#00; All right, in Suite 0 what else do you see?
#99: Looking at here and now, objects - I see
something again : . . . . opened. . . well,
its like a drawing, I guess you would call
a drawing table or something. At least I see
one. If you're asking me . .
#00: All right. A drafting table.
#99: A drafting table. This is what I see. What
its use, I don't know, this is what I'm
seeing. I see a man. . . sitting on a . . .
something like a stool.
#00: All right.
r~
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#99: All right.
#00: Are there any office machines that are
pronounced?
#99: Again, those squares keep coming in. J
#00: Okay.
#99: And I don't. . you know, that looks like
#00: TV screens?
#99: Like TV screens.,/,,
#00: All right.
#99: I can't tell you how many but I'm saying
this. I see. . . I will put at this point
that that is . . . if you're asking me for
something in there, that is one of the things.
#00: Okay. And there are more than one of these
squares? Let's get a general number. Is
there a half dozen of these squares and are
they located together or are they separated
or . .
#99: No. They're separated because I keep seeing
again, people sitting, . . at a desk and there
is a square there.
#00: Um hm. Okay. Can you see someone functioning
with this, this unit? What do they do? Is
there a keyboard in front of it?
#99: Yes there's a keyboard. It looks, to me, as
this would appear to be part of a general work
that they were doing. Let me. .
#00: Let me give you something to think about #99
and respond. What you've described you know
it could. . could be a number of things. it
could be a desk terminal computer terminal. It
could also be a word processing machine for
support personnel to type and make corrections
and to edit on a (not audible) screen. Or it
could be both of these. It could be a TV
monitoring device. It could be a TV set.
#99: No. Its not a TV set. That's for sure.
16
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#99: The reason is, that again, I see numbers but,,
I cannot see writing, Now, that might be a
shortcoming on my part.
#00: Urn hm. You're looking at the screens.
#99: I'm looking at the screen.
#00: Okay, you shift the perspective and I want
you to say down because . . .
#99: I'm seeing this, now remember, I'm. . I'm.
over here on the top looking down. I'm not
into the room, T'm looking down.
#00: Okay, well stay there then and tell me about
what other machinery, if any, you see besides
these squares, tv like things.
#99: I'm going to eliminate . . . for you the
general things that could be . . because like
typewriters . .
#00: Yeah. Not interested in those.
#99: I'm only picking out the . . what I'm seeing.
I am still troubled by this high thing that
I'm seeing against the wall.
#00: Okay, is that . . let me get an orientation
to help me. As you hover over this from your
perspective, the suite may be irregularly
shaped, that is there may be . . . it may not
be a perfect square or perfect rectangle, but
is it more rectangular in shape or more square
in shape if you generalized the edges? Is it
longer. . .
#99: Longer than small.
#00: Okay, so it is more of a rectangle than a square.
#99: Yeah. As I said in the beginning, it is. . .
I am not walking in a cubicle this big or a
room this big. I am walking in something
much longer which I did not really focus in
yesterday because I was trying to get . . .
apparently trying to see an area more than the
length than when I was jumping. . it was from
one area to another.
#00: All right.
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U
#99: Do you have any question #6.5? Please ask
them as we go along. . because it becomes
very . , I'm at a crucial point here and
putting, as you're asking me, time wise
and your questions would be extremely
important if there's something that you
listened over the tape you know that will
get me into the things that you want.
#6.5: Okay. Again, I'm interested in pursuing the
same thing that #00 was talking about. That
piece of equipment that you're seeing as high.
Okay. I'd like to get more details on that
if you can. Maybe you'll have to move yourself
closer.
#00: Yeah. Shift yourself as necessary #99, to give
a . . a detailed description as you go.
#99: Yeah. Would you just turn this off for one
second because when I shift, I'd like to . . .
I want to be . . We're getting away from the
scene but I. . Its just . . . that I'm very
nervous, more than nervous and more than . . .
its a negative thing and when I . . . had the
picture that was one of the things. . that was/
the first thing and that first impression got
me that it was something real bad. All right.
But within the compound, the whole thing, the
operation, it does not look - but I could not
get away. . . .
#00: Let me ask you a, question about that #99. And
we're referring to . .. because of a pause in the
tape, to a, feeling an overall feeling of what
you had previously reported was a heavy high
tension feeling. That. . and earlier yesterday
you had said that . . as if they were almost
afraid to breathe. You. . . today you get
that feeling again.
#99: Again. Very strongly.
#00: All right.
#99: But again, added this dimension that its
negative for me.
#00: Okay, is this coming from . . . Is it possible
that this is essentially one, that you're
picking this up from one person. Not from
everybody, or is this a. collective . . . . you
know, what's the source?
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r
#99: The source is . . . . The source is the
atmosphere that I'm picking from Room
#00: Okay, but, you know, we accept this #99 but
is , . is there one malfactor in the room
who is essentially the cause of this?
#99: I have to sa.y. . . if you're saying one, I
have to say more than one.
#00: All right.
#99: But I'm not saying all of them.
#00: Okay. Well is it the cadre of people who are
working on this smaller project?
#99: No. Its something dealing with . . a leakage
of some information. Let me put it this way.
This seems to be the overtone message that's
coming that I have to know what that is. I
don't know what you're looking for. As such.
But the overtone message is coming to me is
some information that is very valuable, that
is very extremely valuable, from the project
that is being worked here, is being leaked out.1
#00: Well let me make a suggestion #99 and evaluate
this. Understandably there is a person on site
who is. . who is controlling or is directing or
at least knows about the leakage and he or she
is highly apprehensive about it, that that they
or he will be or she will be discovered. And
this is the negative feeling that you are pick--
ing up. I mean thatperson is under great tension
on a . . on a minute-by-minute basis. . . that
they will lose everything if its discovered.
Is that the source of the tension? A possible
source.
#99:
My
not
and
hesitatio
yes. Bu
in my ps
n is not because the
t you're speaking of
ychic mind I see more
answer is
one person
than one
person.
#00:
All right.
We can. accept that.
#99:
Would you accept.
. more,
you know.
#00:
Sure.
19
SGI
A
SGI
A
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#99: I must return and I don't know whether I
mentioned - a woman keeps coming back to
me.
#00: Um bm, You mentioned two women yesterday.
#99: No. This is a special . . . . Something.
#00: Well tell us more about this special woman.
Is she an employee? Is she in the room right
now? In the suite now?
#99: She's in the room right now.
#00: Okay. But does she regularly work there? Does
she work there eight hours a day? Or is she a
visitor?
#99: All of a sudden this woman appears in this
room, you know. I But as she appears / SG I
the room. . . the number ~. . RG1
(TURN OVER TAPE TO SIDE 2) A
#00: I'd like to have you try something if you can
do this. (Not audible) take that woman out of
the . . of the suite and tell me what happens
to the atmosphere. . the level of tension or
what. Does it change when she is not there?
#99: It is decreased because one other person, all
right, . . is calmer.
#00: Well, let's take .
#99: If you're asking me, Does the atmosphere
decrease, I have to answer yes.
#00: Okay. But let's look for the common, more
commonplace solution to this. That it really
is . . it may involve security to some degree
but in fact, let me suggest that it is a matter
of personality. That when this woman comes in,
there is a feeling of antagonism based on
personality rather than a security leak or f
anything like that.
#99: No. 1
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#00:
06
You don't like that. That as a hyposis.
#99: No . No.
#00: Okay. Well, the person . . , the person. . .
let's try to identify the person besides the
woman who comes in and brings another level
of attention and is associated with = and
is associated with the leak. Is that other
. . is the person, the other person or persons
male or female?
#99: The other one is a male.,
#00: Okay. . Are. . Can. you narrow it down to two?
The leak is associated with a woman who comes
in on occasion and a man. Is there any other
. is there a third or fourth party to the leak?
#99: At this point, I have to say this is all that
comes to my mind.
SG1A
#00: All right. The man is he . . does he spend
his working day An
#99: Yes. Yes./
#00: Okay.
SG1A #99: But again you're saying =and the number
flashes again -through my mind.
SG1A
SG1
A
SGI
A
#00: All right.
#99: I'm making these #6.5 because I'm gonna have
to place what this =whether this room SG1
is there or is it in another place - I'm being A
logical here - I mean If this = is there, SGI
SG1A
A&GI
#00: Okay. Well, let me ask the question. How do A
you feel? Is the number of a compartment SGI
or of another room? Or let put it this way,
is Q . internal in 0 Or is it not, is A
it out of that building completely?
#99: This is what I don't know right now. And I'll
have the answer for you.
#00: Okay. Okay. I want to shift gears slightly.
#99: Lets go back to . .
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#00: Lets go back to that machinery and-position
yourself anywhere you want - inside the
machinery, outside, facing it, but in such
a position as to give us whatever level details
you can concerning it.
#99: I'm going to give it to you starting out from
the top as I strip everything. I see it
lets say that I'm here walking, lets say
that I'm here - and I'm giving you now - I'm
SG1A going into room 0 And I'm over the top.
And the equipment is to my left: And it appears
that I am at the end or I cannot go any further
than this equipment.
#00: All right. Its against a wall, is that a fair
?
#99: I would assume its against a, wall., but I do not
see the wall.
#00: Because why? Its covered by the equipment?
#99: Because the equipment seems to be extremely
high to me.
#00: Okay.
#99: Now, again, I'm going to get off the psychic.
Sometimes my psychic may exaggerate the length
of the equipment and I have to make that known.
#00: Okay, but . . well we can clear that up very
quickly. Look at the floor and look at the
ceiling - does the equipment go from the floor
nearly to the ceiling?
#99: The answer is . . as I'm seeing it, the answer v
seems to be yes.
#00: So it is
#99: High.
#00: . . assuming a nominal 8 foot ceiling, the
equipment is, you know, approaches the ceiling.
#99: It is not. . Let me put it this way, its not
the height of a cabinet file, its much higher J
and much broader. Now, let me go back. And
its wide.
#00: Okay.
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#99: But its big.
#00: Okay. Are theremodules, that is, is it solid
or do you see that in fact there are. there
are a number of the same type of . . . of. . of
machinery that is you can see where they've been
stacked next to each other - lined up next to
each other. That's all one big thing?
#99: Its all one big thing.'
#00: Okay. I . . . I'm gonna need some more details.
#99: This is all (.not audible) and I keep seeing
needles. Circles, needles, keep seeing something /
that your. . . knobs. .
#00: Knobs, okay what else besides knobs?
#99: And then as I'm approaching towards that there
seems to be like . .
That's this part of it and this part over here
is a little different. I don't see any knobs
or anything else that's solid.
#00: Um hm.
#99: And down . . . As if something was coming out
on paper.
#00: All right.
#99: Now, in my minds eye, I'm also seeing somebody
operate a type.
#00: A keyboard of some sort.
#99: A keyboard, But I cannot put it that the key- 1
board is on this.
#00: All right.
#99: It seemed to be away from it. But I don't know
where,
#00: All right, #99, I want you to follow some wires.
I'm assuming that the machinery is powered by
electricity. Can you tell us . , you know, is
the machine plugged into an electrical outlet
somewhere? Can you see those wires?
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#99: Hold it! Hold it! Something. The information
that comes from there does not come from the u"
room itself Y- its fed in.
PAUSE
#00: Something is fed into the machine.
#99: Fed in!
#00: Okay. But are you cancelling that something,,"
comes out of the machine also.
#99: No. No. No. That's not what I'm saying./
#00: Let me try to help you #99. Is the machine
receiving information as from an antenna. You
know as a radio receiver would receive informa-
tion.
#99: No. Somebody. The only way I can explain it
to you is . , . . what appears to me. Lets say
that here I am . . . No the example is not right.
All right. Lets say I was working on. . like
I've worked on Wall Street.
#00: All right.
#99: And suddenly over my . . information is being
fed without my being . . . having to send
information out. It does not mean that information
cannot be sent out,of that room. But I'm merely
saying that the way I'm seeing it in this moment
of time is that information is coming in. Now,
this . . I don't know. . its part of their work.
The information is coming in. I'm not saying
that its . .
#00: Okay.
#99: You know, but it appears part of the work. That's
what I'm trying to say.
#00: Yeah but that. . you know, we've . . . That is
reasonably commonplace, you know. Information
is coming in. What's the signif. . . you know
why are you making o it?s
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the significance of it?
#99: The significance of this is that some of the /
information in here is a code. Or something.
#00: Is the . . is the. . apparatus is the machine
associated with code or incription or decription.
Is that the function of the machine?
#99: No, its not the, . its not the. . the primary
function its feeding these people information.
Now within this information -- remember yesterday
I said that I was trying to find out how some-
thing was getting in and out -
#99: It appears to me now, and I'm not certain, all
right, it only appears because of the psychic
impression that I have to say this, I'm making
conclusions. That some messages have to come
in on that. Psychically!
#00: Okay. Well, lets. . . I'm still a little
confused. We're talking about the function
of the machine.
#99: We're talking about the function of the machine.
I . . What I am seeing is something coming out
of this machine which does riot come directly
from the room. Again, comes in.
#00: Okay. Well, lets. . . I'll have to leave that.
#99: I. . . merely. . I'm just giving you as it comes
in to me.
#00: Okay. #6.5 do you have any questions in that
area.
#6.5: Min min.
#00: I frankly am in a state of slight confusion
as to the role of the machine.
#6.5: So am I. Why don't you just leave it. Listen,
go from that wall all the way across, okay, like
from here to there.
#99: From here to there. Okay.
#6.5: And go to...the other wall. What is there?
#99: What I'm seeing against the other wall is
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#99:
I got to separate myself from the other wall.
All right.
PAUSE
I'm over this wall. . .
#00:
Now this is the wall opposite the machine
banks.
#99 there's a possibility that there's more
than one wall op. . . that is that . . I'll
put it in a question. Is there a wall rather
immediately in front of the machine banks?
And then, you know, which then -there's a door--
way you can go through and you . . . and. .
I'm not sure which. wall you want him to go to.
#99: He wants. . He wants me to go to the end of
the room.
#6.5:
#00:
SG1A #6.5:
SG1A #99:
#00:
SG1A #99:
The end of the room.
Of the suite, okay.
Okay.
The end of that is where I see this
separate office which is closed, you know, an
office closed, or a cubicle or some, . where
you would go in.
#00: And who's office . or what is the purpose
of that?
PAUSE
#99: At this point no answer comes.
#00: Uni hm.
#99: I do know - hold it _ I do know that it is'
an important male person.
#00: Urn hm .
#99: You're asking me who, I don't know who.
26
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#99: Adjacent to it is also another room.
#00: Well, is it important in the sense of a
#99: Its important. . Its important in the sense
that it appears to me that its sound proof'
or something because I cannot hear what is
going on, and is being said in that room.
#00: Okay. So there. . apparently there's some
more attention to security there, but I'm
after the importance of the male person in
there. Is he important?
#99: The importance is that he is in control of
the whole . . .
#00: You're saying that he's the manager of the /
office or manager of. .
#99: Yes. Yes.
#00: . . of the operation.
#99: Okay, yeah of the operation. This is what
I'm getting.
#00: Okay.
#6.5: Okay, and this other area that's sound proof
that's adjacent to his office or part of his
office?
#99: Its part of his office. It is. , I would
have to say more like, its his office.
#6.5: Yeah. Lets explore that area and tell me
what's in. that area, in his office.
#99: Cut for a minute, I've got to go to the
bathroom.
27
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#99: Yeah. What came to me. . this sound proof
is that certain plans for certain designs of
certain things which I have not yet put my
finger on, is talked about.
#00: Okay.
#99: All right. More than that the room does not
appear as an office to me. Its . . . very
how would I put it comfortable. Its . .
I'm now walking into a man sitting at a desk
with a chair behind it. And you know I'm
sitting down and he's asking me questions.,/
I feel more comfortable than that in this
sound proof room.
#00: Okay.
#99: All right. He does have a monitor in the
room. But . . what I'm trying to . . What
I'm looking at into the room is . . . . .
his operational . . . . . . his operational
work.
The designs that are. . . the work that's
coming to me as I'm observing in the room,
they are not designing or working on a project.
They are not working on a project that is
something that is completed like a tank
Completion work of a tank. Or something. Its
not like that. They're working on something
which is part of a very advanced . . . . .
war . . war. . I would say military more than
war. . . . design of something that is military
and that is . . . not big. By that I mean its
not . I'm not building a tank; I'm not
building a gun or something like that. I'm
building something that goes with something
else. That's what the . . the work is being
done. If you follow that, you know what I'm
trying to say now.
#00: Well, yeah I follow that and lets try to build
on that a.. little bit. Its small and its a
component that goes with something else. What
is . . When you put them together, what is the
function? Is it in . . involved in what? Is
it a weapon or is it not a weapon?
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#99: It is a weapon, or it can be used as a weapon.
#00: Well, all right. Let me give you another
alternative. Is it involved in communications?
#99: If you are asking me.
#00: I'm sort of testing . . . . . .
#99: No. no. no. I mean what do you mean by
communications?
#00: Well, I mean is it a . . part of a. . of a
piece of equipment by which information is
sent or received?
#99: No. No.
#00: Its not communication equipment?
#99: No. No.
#00: You're satisfied that it is part of a weapon
system.
#99: Its part . . . I'm saying that its part of a /
weapon system meaning that I keep seeing water.
that I don't understand whether its only one
part of this -- I keep seeing water. And . .
I keep seeing that this would, be tested in
something that has to be in water."
#00: It is tested in something that has to be in
water.
#99: Or it goes by . . yeah, I'm gonna stat:e it the
same way, tested in something with water.
It is not something that is already marketed.
#00: Okay. Is what they're working on an improve-
ment of something like it that already exists
or is it a new component of a weapon system or
a weapon system?
#99: I would have to say its a.n extension and if
you want to use improve as an extension I will
accept that.
#00: Well, okay, you don't . . . . . I. . You know, I
. . I was just trying to get . .
#99: No. No. I understand.
#00: . . give you food to .
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~ 3
^
#99: These are things - I've come from the
bathroom and I'm Just giving you them as
. . you know, as they're coming out.
#00: Ha ha. Okay. I think we better move our
working place in there.
#99: All right.
#6.5: I once made a mistake like that. I made
my briefing up in a bathroom and it went
over well so then everytime I have to give
a briefing, my folks tell me Go to the
bathroom,
#00: Okay, #99, this is . .
#99: Let me . . let me . . give you the word that
comes to me. .
#00: All right.
#99: For whatever meaning it is, I don't know. it
said submarine. The word submarine.,
#00: All right. Okay.
#99: But. . it does not . . the word submarine, I
don't know what it means now, and I want you
to realize that I don't know what it means.
#00: All right. I . . let inc challenge that, #99,
because, you know, this is a tangent - appears
to be a tangent. Can you. . . are you. . the
word submarine comes in. Is that the business
of this office, to be involved in submarines?
Or is there just some relationship with the
thing being developed in some means?
#99: Its in some relationship developed with sub-
marines because I could not put a battle ship
in it.
#00: Okay, you. . you've gone to Naval weapon
systems now.
#99: But. . . the. . I know I've gone to Naval
weapons. .
#00: Um hm. Its all right with me. If that's
what's coming in.
3-ft IL
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#99: No no no no. All I'm saying is . . What I'm
saying . water, I'm saying that its .
we're talking about Naval and I'm talking about,
you know, under the Naval would be a battleship,
but it has nothing to do with a battleship or
. unless . . , I'm eliminating more than
putting . . .
#00: Okay. Okay.
#99: Because I'm trying to narrow down, in my mind,
what it meant that this dealt with water and its
not a battleship.
#00: Okay, but lets . . Okay, make sure that these
are psychic inputs, #99, rather than logical
ones. And . . .
#99: Let me tell you what logically. . not logically,
what psychically came to me.
#00: All right.
#99: And then we can work from there. It is a
component part of an extension of something
that deals with water. In water. Or with
water. It is not . . .
#00: Now see, you shifted on us now. Previously,
I understood you to say, it is a, component
part of a weapon. . .
#99: Of a weapon.
#00: Of a weapon system.
#99: Yes a weapon system.
#00: You're still staying with that.
#99: Yes, I'm staying with that. Because I'm
visualizing something in my mind
#00: All right, now go ahead and say your statement.
#99: All right. And . . the water. . something about
water came in after that. And the word submarine.
Now, I have to say that submarine might be a
logical thing or it might be a psychic - I am V
not sure. And I want to clear that with you.
#00: Okay. All right, well let me ask you, if the
. . this component. . or part of the weapon
system, if the water relationship is . is
exclusk.ke - that it will only be used in
connection with water
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#99: The answer is no.
#00: Okay. Otherwise it could be used on land
as well as on water. Is the linkage with,,'
water . . .
#99: An important factor."
#00: An important factor.
#99: Yeah.
#00: But is it important in the sense that it is
associated with . . with testing the system
rather than applying it when it gets issued
to the field or to the operating troops? Do
you have any feeling in this area?
#99: Yeah. Let me put it this way. One, it would
be used, what . . it appears psychically, it
says that it would be more, of more value in
water than in . . . in an airplane or on a
ship or something like this. See, I'm not
making. . I cannot . . I'm seeing the part.
#00: Um hm. Well, describe the part.
#99: All right. Its a very small thing, Maybe.
this big. . .
#00: All right. You have your hands about a
. . and a . . and you've focused them as if
its a circle. Is it a globe or is it a ball
sort of .
#99: Its. . Its. . Its . . Its long.f
#00: Well, lets just . . lets just ease the tension.
Sketch it for us please #99.
#99: Well, I don't know if this is in its complete
form, but it appears . . . . . .
I cannot finish it here, I don't know why. And
'there appears to be . . .
#00:
Now are you drawing this to scale; is this
the actual size of it?
#99:
Yeah.
Just about the actual size of it.
Yeah.
#00:
Okay.
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#99: All right. Its not big.
#00: All right. I don't know what were going to
end up with.
#99: Yeah. Yeah. On the drawing board, it will
probably be something. . something as this.
#00: Well, this is an 8 by 10 piece of paper. Do
you mean your drawing?
#99: My drawing here, all right, is just telling you
that its a minature or a small, its not as big
as this paper.
#00: All right. So, it looks like something four /
inches by two inches, something like that.
#99: Something. And there appears to be little dots.
And there seemed to be some kind of wire and V'
I'm slipping that into something.
#00: Okay, are we . . . I want to make sure that
you're not . . xraying this. Are we. . . if
I picked it up and looked at it, is this what
I would see without taking it apart?
#99: No. No. You may see the dots, but you would
not see the inside.
#00: The wires.
#99: The wires.
#00: Okay, the wires are internal.
#99: Internal. This is . . The covering of this
is of a metal. . but its not a metal that I
would . . . . its a special type of metal...
#00: Okay, that will be. . . did you say that would
be slipped inside of something?
#99: Slipped into somethi.ng.
#00: All right. Is that an explosive in any
sense?
#99: Would you rephrase the question? May I rephrase
the question?
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#99: If I were to rephrase the question: Would I~
this add to the explosion of something that
went off, the answer would be yes,
#00: Okay. But that . , Now let me ask questions
about your statement. Is it . . . a fuse in
the sense that it initiates an explosion?
That it is a. . . say that . . a component
that senses a target and sends a signal to
the explosive device that now is the time to
detinate? Or does it have anything to do with
fusing?
#99: I don't know #00. It keeps coming back that
I see water and it deals with water.
#00: Okay.
#99: Let me . , go back on . . .
#00: But t h a t ' , - , .. . . I. . . I . .accept that
and lets just sort of set that aside as an
agreed . . it has something to do with water.
#99: Yeah. What I'm zeroing in right now - now I
have to make you understand that not everybody
in that office is aware of this.
#00: All right.
#99: I am picking this -up from the office of the
man that we were talking about. All right.
#00: All right. Okay. We'll accept that.
#99: Now, I don't . . . I neither believe. . that
its built there.
#00: Well, then what do they do there? Are they
in . . . what phase of this development goes
on in that . . at least in his office?
#99: Maybe I should rephrase that. . . the assembly
. . the assembly of this - and I have some-
thing. . . Let me put it this way #00, I have
to say this, psychically again, again. I am.
I have a psychic feeling that this project of
this thing is not finished. Do you follow what
I'm saying?
#00: All right.
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#99: That its put together, but its not finished
and what I'm picking up is how its going to
be used, in what way its going to be used.
I think that's what I'm. . . I feel. strongly
not think, feel strongly, this is what. . . ~'
what I'm seeing is a finished product.
#00: Okay, that's important but lets shift back.
#99: But I'd . I'd . . And what I'm seeing.
is that . what is happening is that. . when
I say that its not built there, I'm merely
saying that the drawing is almost complete,
of being completed. And I'm speaking about
here and now.
#00: Okay, world it be fair #99, to say that they
are designing parts of this in that office?
#99: I will accept that.
#00: Okay.
#99: But I will also accept. . . I have to add
something. It appears to me. . . and when
appears I mean seeing psychically. . is there
appears to be at least one of these with this
man that I'm seeing in this room which we're
talking soundproof.
#00: Okay. A prototype or a hand made model or
something.
#99: Its more than a handmade.
#00: Well I say that versus production.
#99: All right. Okay. But this off. . . this is
. . . . It is a . . . Its something and its
for the use. . . . . It could be used in other
ways also #00.
#00: What other ways #99? You mean in other . . in
more than one weapon system? Or . . ?
#99: In more than one weapon system.
#00: Okay. Or do you also mean that it could be
used in . . other than in a weapon system?
#99: No. It could be in . . I will have to put
It can be used in a weapon system and it could
be used outside of a weapon system, It does
not always mean that it is for the . . .
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