INSCOM, GRILL FLAME PROJECT, SESSION REPORT, RV SESSIONS C-54 AND C-55

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00788R000100030001-8
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 53
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 12, 1998
• Sequence Number: 1
• Content Type: REPORT

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ORCON/NOFORN
INSCOM
GRILL FLAME
PROJECT
SESSION REPORT
Approved For Release 2000/08
CLASSIFIED BY: Director,DIA
REVIEW ON: 30 Sep 99
EXTENDED BY: Director, DIA
REASON: 2-301-C (3) (6)
6_00788R0001GUILL FLAME
SG1A
SG1A
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SUMMARY ANALYSIS
REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSIONS C 54 AND C 55
1. (S) This r port provides documentation of two of four
remote viewing sessions (see also C47 and C53) conducted in
compliance with a request from OACSI, DA. This office was
requested to provide information concernin? what was describ d
2. (S) The remote viewer was highly motivated during these
sessions. He was able to achieve a better than normal relaxed
b
state and his impression of the target area were unusually
clear to him. On the fiJ st session, the remote viewer was
told that information had been requested about a building in
the vicinit of a ?eo?ra?hic coordina
?? ? I.
3. (S) The protocol used for this session is detailed in
the document, Grill Flame Protocol, AMSAA Applied Remote
Viewing Protocol (S), undated.
4. (S) Following are transcripts of the viewer's impressions
during the remote viewing sessions. At TAB A are drawings made
by the viewer reference his impressions of the target site. At
TAB C is available target data. At TAB B are initial target
correlation data sheets.
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TRANSCRIPT
REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION C 54
#66: This will be a remote viewing session (edited
for security).
PAUSE
Let's focus now on the target for this afternoon.
Interested in finding out about a building located
at
PAUSE
Relax and concentrate. Concentrate.
PAUSE
#1: I see a . . low silhouette building. And its in
the shape of an "L".
PAUSE
And there . . there appears . . I take that back.
There's . . there's . . Its not right. There's
. . Its a low, low silhouette building and its
. . . kind of got a drab . . drab appearance. Its
not square, its . . rectangular.
PAUSE
Appears to be about . . . 25% longer than it is
wide.
PAUSE
There's . . what . . appears to be a tall . .
tall thing next to it. With . . I . . I want
to say, guide wires, but there's no guide wires
there. Its very tall like maybe a . . a smoke-
stack. Looks like a smokestack.
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#66: What is your . .
#1:
#66:
(Not audible)
What is your position, your observation?
What is . . .
#1: Ohhh. .
#66: . . is your position of observation?
#1: Sort of South, Southwest of the building.
Looking at it diagonally across the top.
#66: Tell me more about the building.
#1: Its. .
PAUSE
Its got a . . pitched roof. And its . . I don't
see any windows. Its got two large metal doors.
They appear to be metal doors. And . . . I get
the feeling of a lot of wood for some reason.
PAUSE
There's a . . There's like a ledge piece it looks
like . . that goes sort of down one side.
I . . I want to say its a ramp, but its not a
ramp. Its . . appears to be some kind of a
overhang type ledge that kind of runs around the
one side. Its . . That's really all I can say
about it.
PAUSE
There's . . . Wait a minute! There's something
. . . something unique about it. I can't . . .
I'm seeing . . a triangle, . . not a triangle,
its shaped like a triangle. Like three inter-
secting lines. . that are . . like connecting
three upright supports together. And they're
either right in the corner of the building or
they're on top of the building.
PAUSE
Looks a lot like a very, very large antenna.
Some kind of support poles.
PAUSE
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There's . .
PAUSE
Jesus Christ! #66, it sounds like Grand Central
Station out there. (NOTE: Referring to noise
outside viewing room.)
#66: Well. . . we thought we'd arrange a special
for you this afternoon.
#1: Okay, for that. Would you like to know what goes
on inside this building?
#66: Ah. . . Yeah, I would. Let's ask a few more
questions before we move inside the building here.
Tell me what the odor of the area is. What's
the area smell like?
PAUSE
#1: It smells like a gas plant. Natural gas. But
not a fuel, oil or a . . Its got a strange stink
to it though.
PAUSE
More like . . Its kind of like an acrid scent
to it like sulphur would have. But I smell
a lot of natural gas mixed in with that. For
some reason. Like there's a . . . Like there's
a smelting or a melting or something. Its very
. . . More of an acrid smell.
#66: All right. Let's move on then and what's the
temperature like?
#1: Outside or inside?
#66: Work on the outside.
#1: The outside.
PAUSE
Its cool outside.
#66: Okay.
#1: Very cool. But I . . I got the feeling that
you wouldn't have too much trouble staying warm
here.
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. I . . For some reason there appears to
be like an open end to this building and there's
. . . there's . . There are like large, large,
I want to say tank like objects. Big, you know,
roll up tank like objects. But . . .
#66: All right, now tell me where these objects are
located in relation to the building.
#1: They're . . well there are some that are . . .
They're. . . like the end of the building's kind
of open like and there's like a . . there's
like some that are under the edge of that, that
open end of the building. I don't know how to
explain that . . . I feel like they're sort of
inside or outside of the building at the same
time. Sort of like there should be an end to the
building but there isn't. And they are kind of
under this big overhang of the roof.
#66: All right, describe your position of observation
please.
#1: Looking directly at the back.
#66: All right I want you to stand on the ground at
the back please.
#1: Okay.
PAUSE
Stand on the ground? Okay, I'm in like a parking
area. Appears like . . courtyard area. That's
not right, its a . . There's things like laid
out fairly orderly there.
#66: Can you see these objects that you had before?
#1: Yes. They're like all around me.
#66: All right.
#1: I . . I . get the impression of neat rows.
PAUSE
I also get the impression of heat.
PAUSE
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Thick metal and heat.
#66: All right.
PAUSE
Just relax and concentrate for a minute.
#1: And I get the feeling that I can't see over
them but I can really. To see orderly rows
I have to look through these objects.
#66: All right. What .
#1: (Not audible)
#66: What direction are you facing?
#1: The . .
#66: Are you facing into the building? Are you facing
away from the building?
#1: I'm facing into the building #66.
#66: All right.
#1: I'm looking under that overhanging section of
roof. There's two big black . . . what appears
to be black openings. One on each side.
#66: All right.
#1: And I see . . what appears to be . . some kind ,,--
of cranes on sliding type overhang pieces.
#66: All right.
#1: One on each side.
#66: Fine.
#1: These are like super images. They're like
carry things. Very heavy.
#66: All right.
? #1: Objects.
#66: Now . . um . . Where are they in relation to
the building?
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#1: They're fastened to it.
They. . . They're outside and somehow they're
fastened to them. Fastened to it.
PAUSE
Oh wait! They're . . There's . . . There's .
There's a cross piece at the top of these two
two crane like objects. And . . . it appears
that that part of the crane is moveable. I
think I'm getting the feeling they're attached
to the building because I'm looking . . looking
. . . through them for some reason. I don't
understand how I can do that.
#66: Okay. Um . . These things that . . a . . are
partly in the building and partly out of the
building?
#1: Yeah.
#66: What do the cranes have to do with them?
PAUSE
#1: They're . . They work on them with these. There
. . . there seems to be . . . There's some kind
- of railroad or some kind of big slide type rail
with brackets fastened to it. . . that these
things slide on, these big things.
#66: Yeah, um hm.
#1: And . . and . . . I'm . . I'm seeing . . .
some kind of a . . Jesus! This is really
mind blowing. I'm seeing fins, but they're not
. . . they're not rocket fins or plane fins or
anything there.
#66: Yes, that's very good. Go on.
#1: They're . . They look like shark fins.
#66: All right.
#1: Very much like shark fins.
#66: All right. Fine.
#1: And they're . . they're dark dull gray rolor ?L/
and they're juttinhrough these doors like.
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#66: All right. Fine. I want you to stand. . .
listen very carefully. Stand in the opening where
these things jut out and look away from the build-
ing, directly away from the building.
#1:
Okay. Um hm. I see a . . . First, I see a lot
of fencing. Everywhere. And I see an open area
that's got what looks like different . .
different constructed pieces of metal laying in
neat stacks . . . I don't . . a lot of curved
pieces of metal. And then more fencing. And
there's a lot of . . There's a lot of . . spot
lights, flood lights. And a very . . . And its all
covering of . . a very large concrete structure.
Extremely large. It .
#66: Now . .
#1: There's water, there's a lot of water there.
#66: Fine. Tell me about this large concrete structure.
PAUSE
#1: Its floating on the water. At that weight.
PAUSE
God damn it!
PAUSE
Its . . . I want to say its floating on the water
but its not. Its got water under it and around
it, part of it. I think.
PAUSE
There's . . . intense lighting in this building.
#66: Which building?
#1: And all around it. The big concrete structure.
#66: This concrete structure is a building?
PAUSE
#1: It appears to be hollowed somewhat inside.
It . .
PAUSE
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I have to say its some kind of a building, but
like its very unusual. Very, very large in
concrete. Very hardened.
#66: And this is different than the building that
you told me about before?
#1: Yes.
PAUSE
Its like if you were to . . bury a shoe box
in . . five feet of steel reinforced concrete,
. . and then worked inside the shoe box.
Its like a very . . very . . heavily constructed
. . . some. . . its a structure, but it . . its
got something wrong. There's people working in
it.
#66: What's your position of observation please?
#1: Looking through it.
#66: All right, move inside of it. . so you are not
forced to look through it. Move inside the
building, the big concrete structure, move
inside.
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#1: There's water in there. (Not audible). Its V
not full of water, there's just water in there.
I . . . Lot of metal railing. And . . what
appears to be . . some . . some kind of tubular
thing. Some kind of a . . Some kind of an
immense rack type object. Say its brilliantly lit
inside. I . . . I get the feeling of intense
light. And noise. Like some kind of a . . a .
some kind of a work bay or something. There's . .
I keep seeing this . . this oblong bay of water
for some reason. And, there appears to be a . .
a. . form of a . . huge bracket type apparatus.
Its got circular gripping arms on it for some
reason. And there's. . . a lot of intense noise
and lighting. A lot of lighting. Lights everywhere.
Outside and inside it appears. There's . . . I
keep wanting to say there's a . . . there's a . .
dark, a very dark object there but I can't . .
I can;t tell what it is. Its like a shadow type
. . . thing. But its very large.
#66: In what terms do you mean very large?
#1: Tall, but longer than tall. But I . . I . . can
see the . . the . . see the tall part. And it
_rue reason, I
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see a . . . a . . seeing a red flag with a
red star on a black background like there's
night time behind it. And I think this is
on this dark object but I can't . . tell what it is.
Its absolutely smooth.
#66: All right. What's the temperature ? ? . inside
this building?
#1: Inside, very warm.
PAUSE
Very warm. There's . .
#66: Describe the odor.
#1: The odor is . . very, very strong. Very strong.
Acrid smell. Almost like they're burning metal
smell.
#66: All right.
PAUSE
#1: Same smell you would get if you were. . next
to a . . a very intense. . arc weld.
#66: All right.
#1: Arc welding. Yeah, I sense there's that, probably
that activity there.
#66: Okay.
PAUSE
I want you to come back outside the area now;
back outside the area now.
#1: Okay. I see a very large body of water there.
It has two sections of land that curve out and
then back in from both directions.
#66: All right.
#1: Like a protected bay or something.
#66: Very good.
#1: Protected bay.
#66: Very good.
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PAUSE
#66: This is all the questions that I have about the
target. I would like you ? ?
#1: This . . . This is a . .
#66: I would like to provide you the opportunity to
say anything now thatyou would like to say about
the target.
#1: The . . I'm getting a very, ;very strong impression,A/
es _p_42.2.1. In the main buildiu the large tall
building thaTT; got the . . tE5-open end. You
know, I . . I . . There's some kind of ship.
Some kind of . vessel. I get the imrpession.
#66: All right, fine.
#1: Large, very large.
PAUSE
And. . . There's something else. Let me
concentrate on it a minute.
#66: This is fine. This is your opportunity to add
anything you'd like to add. I will wait for your
reply.
PAUSE
#1: I'm getting this strongest feeling that these
things are not constructed here; that there's 1./v
some kind of modification going on. . . and I
see some kind of . . some kind of complex. .
some kind of . . complex. . that thing I saw
earlier with the curved gripping arms. There's
some kind of complex thing like that that's on
the . . . laid out on the backs of these vessels
or these ships. And there. . . that's the modifi-
cation has something to do with that. These
bracket type, large bracket type things .? . are
being modified. Something's being done to those.
And . . . And . . . God, I can't put my finger
on it.
PAUSE
Well, that's all I got.
#66: All right. Fine. I want you to sit up now and
draw those impressions that you had and feel free
to draw those things that you feel you want to
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PAUSE
#1: Just a minute.
#66: All right.
PAUSE
How do you feel about this session?
#1: Good. It was like all of a sudden everything
just came together. Very, very strong impressions.
Particularly at the back of that large building
with the openings.
PAUSE
I wish I could tell what that God damn fin was
to because I think that's very significant.
PAUSE
Ohhhhh.
#66: All right?
#1: Yep.
#66: I'm going to open the blinds here and give you -
a little bit of light to draw.
PAUSE
#1: There's. . . Page 1, we'll make this . .
kind of long, tall wide building. I kept saying
it looked a little flat. Because you get that
impression because its much wider than the normal
building would be and I got the impression that
where the end should be it kind of overhung quite
a bit. For some reason. I'm going to try to
draw it from the perspective that I was viewing
#66: Okay, when you say its flat, and then later you
tell me about these. .
#1: Well. .
#66: large things inside?
#1: Its got a . . a roof like that.
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#66: Oh, I see what you're saying.
#1: What I'm saying is in pro . . its size,
proportionate size, makes it appear to be
lower and flater than what it is, but is really
a huge, like a factory. Almost like a factory
building.
#66: Okay.
#1: And its very, very large. And I get the feeling
like this end, for some reason, was a free
supported overhang. And then. . . the sides
kind of came out.
PAUSE
Like the sides sort of came out like this and
you could look back up under it. And back up
under it there was . . on the left side, was a
very large door. Like a . . almost like an
aircraft hangar opening. And on the right was
a very large door. . . much like it. It reminds
me a lot of a . . reminds me a lot of a steel
plant. Only, I don;t think they make steel, I
know they don't make steel here. They're making
something out of steel. At least I'm left with
thatimpression. And then also standing back here
there's like what appeared to be . . . well,
there appeared to be something with fins. Like
there were some kind of fins right here. Fastened
to something. Only this object was very dark.
And there was one right here as well. And.
#66: Feel free to use any of the various colored
pencils or other pens to make things appear in
proper contrast.
#1: Yeah. I don't know if I'd be good at that to
tell you the truth.
#66: I just wanted you to be expressive for shadowing
whatever you want to do.
#1: Yeah. Yeah. There's what appears to be a couple
rails come out of here like this. And out of
here like these objects are moved on rails, large
rails. Some kind of a holding type bracket. And
then overhead there was like a . . I don't get a
clear picture of this at all, but there's like a
? ? ?
PAUSE
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There's some kind of free standing crane over
here. Like four-legged type thing with inter-
connecting pieces. And, I'm not sure if this
also rides those same rails or not, but it . .
it has a capacity for moving both directions.
PAUSE
They're . . for some reason I sense there was
something coming . . that's the cross piece I
was talking about.
#66: Um hm.
#1: This darked in area here. And the cross piece,
but this is like a . . a crane or a lifting
device of some sort. And . . and there was two
of those, one on each side. But down in this
area was like . . light pieces of metal. Now.
just different shapes that were neatly laid
out like . . . I'll tell you what it looked
like. When you lay out a jig saw puzzle before
you work on a jug saw puzzle, you put all the
right colors in one place, but all the appropriate
pieces in another, all your half-moon shapes here,
all your square pieces here -- it looked like an
array of . . poker chips, you know, different
color, sizes, models of poker chips. Just all
these little puzzle pieces put in the right place.
#66: All right. Fine.
#1: And they were all metal. Or appeared to be
some form of metal.
PAUSE
And then there was fencing all around this.
An immense amount of fencing.
With a lot of poled lights. With these poled
lights shining back down in the . . these
compounds. And a lot of activity and noise.
Like there was a lot of work going on. That's
the one building.
PAUSE
This other thing.
#66: Okay. That was . . we'll move on to Page 2 now?
#1: Page 2, yeah.
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#1: This thing is a dog, #66. Looking that way
I had, on Page 1, looking at the building that
way . . .
#66: Okay, looking into it from (not audible)?
#1: Into it from the open end.
#66: Yeah.
#1: The water and the other object are behind me.
#66: All right. Fine. So it was when I asked you
to turn around and face the other direction (not
audible)?
#1: You could see . . all these parts laid out.
And fencing everywhere.
#66: Yeah.
#1: Okay. And beyond that this huge concrete type
structure with bays or whatever they are right
on the water, the edge of the water or over it.
It almost appeared as if it was. . floating in
the water for some reason.
PAUSE
I don't know how to approach this. . from a
sketch viewpoint.
#66: Perhaps you can give me a series of sketches as
your views developed.
#1: Okay, looking . . . I felt as if I was looking
into . . . looking at this concrete structure
that was . . this huge object with what appeared
to be . . squares on this face that I was looking
at. That's why I said building. I guess its not
a building, its a functionary design of some sort.
There was these huge squares. I get the feeling
or the impression like these huge squares are the
same kind of things that you would see in a . . .
like in Holland in a . . . canal. For, you know,
controlling the flow of water. When you want to
pass a boat from one canal to another and the
water levels are different and you would use these
big double doors that would swing shut, you know.
Like canal locks.
#66: I see.
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#1: I'll put an arrow and call them canal locks.
PAUSE
And . . . beyond it was . . that's all water.
And then inside. . . inside, I got a number of
impressions. Real strong impressions of very,
very bright lights.
#66: Okay. Were they inside? Are you moving to
Drawing Number 3?
#1: Page 3, right.
#66: All right.
#1: Very strong impression of very bright lights.
Very, very strong acrid smell. Something large
and dark that has no definitive outline yet.
With a red flag and star on it. I get the
impression of a . . like a . . looking down a
long bay where the roof comes together down at
the end . . . across the top. All concrete.
And I got , . I will . . do the best I can on
this.
I got this sort of impression.
PAUSE
Like hand railing type thing. Going around a
. . . a drop off of some sort.
#66: Um hm.
#1: That kind of thing. Down in here, was this,
this dark mass.
#66: There's a railing around the lowered area?
#1: Yeah.
#66: And what's down in the lower area?
#1: Water.
#66: Oh, there's water down there?
#1: I sense that there was water, like water in there
and this dark mass.
#66: Okay.
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#1: And somewhere in this mess on Page 4, I'll put
it, somewhere in this mess is that very large . .
some kind of a thing that looks something like
this. Like a . . . double piece of metal.
#66: I'm gonna turn the tape over now 'cause we're
getting towards the end and I don't really want
to miss anything so I'm going to go ahead and
turn it over now.
#1: Okay.
TURN OVER TAPE
#1: Confused about these things that clamp.
But I get a very strong impression that this
clamp type thing is being modified or exchanged
or something's being done with that.
#66: Okay, there's something going on (not audible)?
#1: Something going on. Modification wise.
#66: Okay, now in talking about size again, I still
don't have an idea about this building that you're
talking about. This cement structure. You say its
big and there's some water inside of it or some-
thing. And I'm not too sure I understand how much
water is inside or. . . or . . how big this thing
really is.
#1: Its . . . I get the impression that its . . . that
its a deliberately hardened building. By hardened
I mean that they went to extremes to make it very
strong.
#66: Uh huh.
#1: There's a lot of concrete in it. That . . you
could easily pull a . . . a . . .150 foot ship v'
into the shallow water bay type thing inside.
#66: Oh, okay, now I have an idea how big it might be.
#1: Okay.
#66: Sure.
#1: That kind of thing. But that's not the sole
function of this place. I'm seeing these clamp
like things and I don't know exactly how they're
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used or what they're for, but T get the
impression that they're on something . .
on something curved. That's dark black.
That's . . .
(Not audible) turb power of the wheels on that
trash can. (NOTE: Reference noise outside viewing
room.)
PAUSE
I just don't know what these are.
#66: But, you somehow you seem to be trying to tell
me that's there's something really important
about these clamps, is that what I hear you
saying?
#1: Yeah.
PAUSE
There's something really important about the
the . . . the whole function of this thing.
This . . . complex or base or . . complex, I
guess it'd be safer to call it complex. Its
not a manu . . At first I thought it was a
manufacturing thing, but its not. I get the
impression that it . . the word "upgrade", the
word "modification" becomes very apparent, or
very strong for some reason.
#66: Okay.
#1: It would be like . . . if we were going to adapt
all our M60 tanks, we would design and bulld
this certain place that we just drive ouY tanks
in one end, modify them and drive out the other
end.
That's it.
#66: All right.
#1: And that's the impression I have with this. .
only this isn't tanks. I don't think.
#66: Well, all right.
#1: I'd say more, more . . some kind of a modification
2.L.1217maalmaaliF vessels of some vay.14
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#66: All right.
#1: I don't have a feel for it . . kind of.
#66: Okay, we've been at this quite a while now, so
we'd like to take a break, is there anything
that you feel that you want to add now?
#1: Nope.
#66: That you haven't told me.
#1: Nope.
#66: Okay, that'll do it then.
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TRANSCRIPT
REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION C 55
This will be a remote viewing session (edited
for security).
PAUSE
Bring your attention to focus on the cement
building just North of
#1: I have a . .
PAUSE
I have a very . . . strong impression of a .
immense amount of noise. . in the building.
I see some . . Ohhh.
#66: Describe your position perspective please.
#1: I'm standing inside the building.
#66: All right, thank you, continue.
PAUSE
#1: I have my back to the . . the side of the
building that's away from the water.
And. . . there's. . . I'm in, I'm impressed
by . . . gargantuan machines, lifts. Or, large
. . . a . . they're cutting tools. They're
large, large sections of metal. Like dies.
They're . . . They're used for . . They're
used for pieces that are very large and this
building is just . . just full of this equipment.
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There's . . a empty section. It appears
to be like a section of raised floorings.
Its polished. Metal or wood of some kind.
And there's . . . a some kind of . . I get
the impression of large newspapers or something
spread out on the floor. Large sections of
white paper. Like curtains or something laid
flat on the floor.
PAUSE
+05 There's a . . people walking around on the
papers.
Doesn't make any sense.
There's a large . . . tunnel type . . exit at
the end. Its square though, its like . . its
like dark there and there's a . . . overhead
rails that run through this tunnel.
#66: Which end of the building?
#1: From the . . on the en5id towards the water.
Its . . This building's connected to another
building. The other building is . . a ? ?
covered dry dock facility, it appears.
PAUSE
That . . . that . . is definitely what it is.
There's . . . these rails take something into
the other building. Parts or something. Pieces.
Large objects.
PAUSE
On the back side, . . . there's concrete build-
ing, the wall, looks like its got windows all
in it but, . . . its kind of funny 'cause they
. . . the windows are facing inside the building.
But there. . . they're windows to another build-
ing.
PAUSE
I see . . windows looking in. I don't under-
stand that. There's. . . lots of . . . lots of
+10 . . lots of people in funny hats in windows.
And funny tables that are crooked.
PAUSE
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#1: And . . . there's maybe three floors of these
windows.
(Not audible).
See this whole building from the windows.
I . . I . . the word, "prototype" pops in my
mind and I . . I get the feeling of . . .
model or modular or . . or . . prototype or
PAUSE
ILLEGIB
I . . . I'm what be. s lik- .ar
submarine in this building. but Its not. . .
its not meant to be a whole submarine. Its
like its a . . a . . almost like a mock-up
of some sort. And there's only a part of it
that's real. And now. . . appears to be some
kind of a . . . a . . . modification or something.
There's . . .
They're making something here that's . . . that's
an adaptable modification.
#66: How did this submarine come to be in the building?
#1:
Its . . . There's not a whole submarine there.
Its like the . . . piece cut from a submarine.
Its like . . like they created part of a submarine
to . . . to . . fasten this modification to.
I'm getting a strong, strong impression of a huge
coffin type container with the lid open. Its
really strange and its kind of like in two sections
like a . . . top on a coffin. Its . . .
#66: Where is this in the building?
#1: Its the modification. Its like round on the end.
On the edge and the top's up. And there's
. . . there's tubes dangling from the underside.
No. Its not right. They look like some kind of
a . . or . . recessed . . some kind of a hydraulic
lifter or some sort. There's . .
#66: What does this coffin like object have to do with
the piece of submarine?
#1: That's about all there is to it.
PAUSE
Its like . . . Its like if you were, if you were
designing watch bands, you wouldn't want the
whole person to try them on, you'd just need the
wrist so you'd fake an artificial wrist instead
of a whole person.
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#66: All right. All right.
#1: I get the feeling that the whole submarine was
never meant to be . . But they mocked it up.
Just a modification on it that's important.
Its a huge modification. That's what it is.
Its a huge. . hump.
No, that's not a good word.
PAUSE
Its like a hump coffin. Ha!
PAUSE
#66: How large is the hump coffin in relationship
to the portion of the submarine?
PAUSE
#1: Two-thirds of its lenglja, If it were all there.
And proga-M-7= upper third. Its like a giant
coffin type thing.
#66: Is this modification to be . . how is it gonna
be connected to the submarine?
+15 #1: It appears . . that its . . Its like . . the
sub plates that its connected to or . . are
remolded in some way. And the . .
#66: Am I to understand that this thing is somehow
on the exterior of the submarine?
#1: Yeah. Its . . . Its part of the submarine though.
Its like you would remove . . . remove sections
of plating from the submarine, an4put this in its
place.
PAUSE
Its . . . very large. And. . I'm seeing something
like grapling hooks or something under it like that
design that I saw earlier. Ithink. . I think that
there. . . I think that this is like a_Erototype;
and . . . the modification important
there other than its design function.
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The modification's built in this section. Its
built in this building. And taken to the other
. . . the other building. That's . . I . . I
get the impression that;s not the only modifica-
tion going on there. I see what appears to be .
#66: What about these calmp type device that you saw
before?
#1: There's some . . some. . I didn't see the
hydraulics before, but I see hydraulics associated
with it. Lift type hydraulics. I don't . . .
They're not . .
PAUSE
They're not . . They don't appear to be air
hydraulics, they appear to be fluid hydraulics.
A lot of overhead lifts - rail lifts. A lot of
catwalks around this, this . . this mock up.
I don't . . . I don't . . . I think this is just
the . . . preliminary model of production or
something.
PAUSE
That. . . They have a . ? ?
#66: How do they get this . . . out of here?
#1: The mock up doesn't matter. They . . They . . .
They . . They take . . . They make the mock up
piece with the machines and I get the impression
that then they can make the piece over and over.
And the pieces are taken into the other building.
#66: Okay, tell me about this other building. Where
is it located?
#1: Its . . Its on the water side. Its . . probably
#66: What size building is it?
#1: 120 feet by maybe 350 feet.
PAUSE
Maybe a little smaller. 100 by 300.
#66: It doesn't sound nearly as big as the other
building.
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#1: No, its very small, but there's . . . there's
ships in it. Supposed to be ships in it, or
. . . or . . Yeah, there's ships in it.
PAUSE
The pieces are taken through the tunnel and
they're put on ships in that building. Sub-
marines.
PAUSE
I'm seeing . . a lot of that . . more activity
than normal there now. I . I feel like there's
probably not too much activity going on, but I
+17 see a lot of . . . black sails.
Don't know. . . Don't know what that is.
Fins, I see fins. Like little fins. Square.
#66: What's your position of perspective now?
#1: Standing. . . standing in the corner of the little
building looking in the . . in the bays.
PAUSE
I don't . . I . . . Its very, for some reason,
extremely difficult to see. . . to see the shapes
of the submarine. Its like they're there and they
are not there. Like maybe its because they're so
temporary or something.
#66: Okay, I want you to position yourself over, 100
feet, over the cement building.
PAUSE
Position yourself 100 feet over the cement
building.
PAUSE
#1: Um hm.
#66: Now to the left describe the open area outside
of the building to the left.
PAUSE
#1: Which side am I facing?
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#66: You tell me whatever you want to describe.
#1: I'm facing . . I'm facing quays. Ships
Parked ships.
#66: Okay and to which side of the building are these?
#1: That;s what I'm facing.
#66: All right now to the left then, if you're facing
that way, now what's to the left side of the
building?
#1: The . . The small building.
#66: And what else?
#1: The water.
#66: Okay.
#1: There's two. . two bays in the small building.
They. . . There's three but . . . I can't see
the middle one for some reason. I don't under-
stand that . . . Its three bays but there appears
to be two. I don't . . .
#66: Tell me about the construction of this building
that's to the left.
#1: Its . .
PAUSE
Its got tall sides.
#66: Um hm.
#1: Perhaps. . . four . . . five sotries or six
ries tall.
#66: All right. That's very good.
#1: Flat roof.
#66: Okay and that is to the left of the cement
building?
#1: Yes.
#66: All right. Now between the cement building,
face forward again, tell . . .
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#1: Facing the quays.
#66: Facing the quays, tell me about just over the
edge of the building between the building and
the quays, tell me about that area.
#1: Ha ha.
PAUSE
+27 That's. . . That's all crates. Stacked crates
and stacked with pieces . . Its sort of like
the puzzle affair, you know that area with
the pieces to the puzzle.
#66: All right, fine.
#1: But is not . . . the same, its like crated
objects. I . . machines are crated there too.
They may. . There may even . . . (not audible).
Machines not covered sitting there.
#66: All right fine, position yourself over the
building again and tell me when you're there.
Position yourself directly over the building.
#1: Okay.
#66: Now look straight down. Straight down at the
building.
#1: Uh huh.
#66: And describe what you see.
PAUSE
#1: I see a roof.
#66: All right. That's fine. Now, simply disolve
the roof and see right through so you are
seeing the schematic.
#1: I see . . large machines and . . a whole bunch
of railroad tracks suspended in the air.
#66: All right. Focus further down now, further down
focus.
PAUSE
#1: I see . . looks like . . huge presses and
things.
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#66: Okay. Tell me about the colors.
PAUSE
#1: I'm getting a strong impression of . . . like
. . . rust browns and. . dark grays; mostly
rust brown color.
#66: Okay.
#1: A lot of primer color.
#66: Now.
#1: Its like . . ?
#66: Go ahead.
#1: Its like . just a maze of machines.
#66: Um hm. Now I want you to focus on this very
clearly looking down at the building now. You
have to be very careful when you look down into
the building not to slip down to the areas that
you're looking at. You have to be very careful
to maintain yourposition, your perspective when you
look down. Hold yourself up there at 100 feet
above the target. And now, as you focus down
on that I want you to concentrate very carefully
on the . . the basic layout of the machines and
the way things are done in there and the shematic
of the floors. . .
#1: Jesus!
#66: (Not audible) organized. That's right. Hold
yourself up there, 100 feet up.
PAUSE
Its not necessary to explain all that to me
but I want you to draw it later so look at it
very carefully.
#1: I see (not audible) tunnel ways coming into the
building.
#66: All right. Fine.
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#1: Okay.
PAUSE
What a mess. Jesus!
PAUSE
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+32 #66: All right. I have no further questions about
the target at this time. I would like to
provide you the opportunity to say anything that
you'd like to say about the target.
PAUSE
#1: There. . . .
PAUSE
I got a very strong impression that its a . .
modifications of the weapon system but I . . I
don't see any weapons. . . which is . . a kind
of a confusing thing.
#66: Explain your impression, the raw impression
that makes you say weapon system.
#1: Its . . I'm askin m self the uestion, what igm
this . . this coffin like thing. And _e answer
I keep giving myself is that its a weapon. And,
I don't know why. I nrirl see any weapon.:
#66: Tell me about the inside of this coffin object.
PAUSE
#1: Just a mare of bent metal and hydraulics. And
some . . . apparently, pneumatic hoses or some-
thing. Very, very complicated. Circles upon
circles. So . . circles. I don't know.
PAUSE
That's all I get.
PAUSE
#66: All right. When you feel you're ready, I'd like
you to draw the impression you have of the layout
of this building. . . and the objects there.
#1: You could draw a month from this place. Very
fine target.
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#1: Um hm. Getting all my parts to working here.
#66: Okay. Stretch your arms, stretch your legs,
and sit up when you're ready.
#1: I don't think I want to move. Ha ha ha.
#66: I'll giveyou a little light and maybe that will
help you wake up.
PAUSE
#1: I feel like all my muscles go to sleep.
PAUSE
(Not audible)
PAUSE
Well, Page 1. Building - its all like this.
I get the impression they're sliding doors on
these two sides, there and on this side over here.
Large sliding doors. And there's like a . .
these things like in layers. There's like a
big section of cleared floor back here. And its
up . . raised up like. And there's a catwalk
going to it that goes down this way. And . . .
We'll call the raised floor "A" and the catwalk
"B". And there's like papers drawn on this thing.
You know, like . . and there's people walking around
on it. Right here is like a . . right on the end
of that, . . . is this big thing that looks like a
coffin with a round end and a cover like in two
pieces that's up. And I get the impression like
there's partial hull plates under it. And like,
this is a mock up of the back of a submarine.
I wonder. . . That's funny I didn't see it as a
back of a submarine before. That's what it looks
like. Its on a big frame type stand. There's
like catwalks that go all the way around it.
We'll call this "C". And then there's another
clear section over here that looks like there's
some . . . I don't know, its like an assembly
area, like they put parts or pieces together here.
That's in the dotted line, that's "D". And then
I get the idea that over all of this, there's
this . . . there's like this . . this kind of
thing. Its a lift type thing that does this.
Here a whole building comes back and goes out a
door into a tunnel over here and this is like a
railroad track.
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#66: You said you saw more than one tunnel (not
audible) or something?
#1: Yeah. I'll get to those in a minute.
#66: Okay.
#1: This . . . tunnel or walkway or whatever it is
is very large. And this track goes through it
into another building which is comparatively
smaller right here. These are the quays over
here.
#66: On the top of the page?
#1: On the top of the page are the quays
#66: Would you write that in there?
#1: Yes. And, the parts, the large parts of pieces
are motivated down through these, through this
type of apparatus, rail track, if you will.
#66: Is that on the floor, the tracking?
#1: No. No. Its in the air. Suspended from the
ceiling.
#66: Oh I see, okay, like a crane lift (not audible)?
#1: Yeah. Right. Only there's a whole lot of them
and there appears to be that there are some -
of course I'll make dotted lines to represent it
some going crossways that are under those or over
those some way. . . like switching stations so to
speak
#66: Okay.
#1: And all under this are just huge machines.
Just lining these tracks. Going all the way around.
And the rest of the room is just huge big machines.
Like its some kind of a . . like . . machinst's
dream to have this place.
PAUSE
#66: And what do these machines do? What . .
#1: They're cutting metal or bending metal, welding
metal, shaping metal. Its like a tool and die
works.
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And these rails go out of the building here at
these doors.
PAUSE
Where the arrows are. Now what's really
interesting, kind of a mind blower, is that
back here is two more tunnels, like entrances
exits. They're like thoroughfares. But, right
immediately over these openings - I want to draw
this on Page 2. Immediately over these two
openings, like this was the building. . . these two
tunnels are, there's like three catwalks or four
catwalks. Four catwalks. With windows. Only
they're windows looking in. And there's, you
know, up and down stairs . . .
#66: This is a side view of it?
#1: Yeah, this is a side view. Its really strange.
And then these windows is . . . all these windows
are lit and there's all people with funny hats
in these windows.
#66: On the inside?
#1: On the inside.
#66: If I was to look through the windows from the
outside I would see people with funny hats inside?
#1: No. You are inside looking out, you'd see people
with funny hats in the windows.
#66: Okay.
#1: If you're outside looking in, you would see
machines. But you wouldn't be able to be outside
looking in. I don't know why. But there's light
up here.
#66: I don't know as I understand . .
#1: Bright light. Band of light here.
#66: I don't know as I understand your concept there
of (not audible) stand outside and look in?
#1: its like .
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#66: windows?
#1: No. Its like a double wall, I guess, with offices
inbetween the walls. But these tunnels go some-
where.
#66: All right.
#1: See two additional tunnels but they don't carry
any equipment. The otherone, the big tunnel,
Page 3, looks like this conceptually.
PAUSE
#66: This is the tunnel in between buildings?
#1: Right and coming along is this rail that goes
down this tunnel.
#66: An overhead rail?
#1: An overhead rail goes down this tunnel and then
goes out either direction like this in the other
building.
#66: Um hm.
#1: And there's like a lift here, you know, that ty1/2e
thing. Hooked and there's parts or pieces or
whatever gets toted on down through this tunnel.
Only this thing is very, very huge like a. . .
person standing in it would be . . . very small.
Very dark tunnel. Just . . things go down it.
I feel like there's layers of these for some reason.
These rails.
PAUSE
And, that's about all I got really.
#66: Okay.
#1: Oh, there's that . . that coffin like thing.
I get the impression it looked like this. With
a round end. Goes something like this. And
there's like two sections to the top just like a
coffin. And the really weird thing about it is
I can see hydraulics here like this on the ends,
you know, like hydraulics in here. But I can
also see tubes down here with hydraulics like and
then . . .
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#66: Okay, which end is up or which end was fastened
to the submarine.
#1: The end that I'm going to put the arrow to was
fastened to the submarine.
#66: So that would . . the part that you drew is up
. . . (not audible) .
#1: Its actually . . .
#66: Are you drawing it upside-down or is it fastened
to the top of the submarine?
#1: It fastens to the top.
#66: All right. It fastens to the top of the submarine.
#1: And this. . . this would be like replacement
under the dotted lines, would be like replacement
part for actually plating on the sub.
#66: Um hm.
#1: Its like a mod . . . an integral mod, . . its like
a modification that reuciires an inte:ryal change
to the actual construction of this sub hull.
#66: Okay. And so they could take pieces of the old
sub hull out and put this insert this in that
position?
#1: Right. And I don't understand the reason for
such a modification. I get the feeling like
for somewhere, the word "large" comes into play
here for some reason. And I see . . interlocking
concentric circles when I look in it like a tub
full of bubbles. . . or something. But . .
they're all interlocking. And somewhere in that
interlocking mess is this clamp type device that
I was seeing earlier. These aren't tubes. I
don't. . . These are like . ? ?
#66: The clamp type device, you said was a .
TURN OVER TAPE
PAUSE
#1: And . . there's a lot of . . its like a whole
bunch of clamps. I don't know.
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#66: Okay, what you're saying is, is the clamp
device that you saw before did not reappear
in this session so you're trying to figure out
where it might have been?
#1: Yeah. Its . . Its . . you know, let's leave it
at interlocking circles.
#66: Okay.
#1: I'd better quit, I'm starting to
#66: Okay, fine.
#1: Starting to get a little punchy here.
#66: Okay, we're going to turn it off then.
#1: Okay.
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