'GRILL FLAME' MEETING, 30 OCTOBER 1979

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00788R002000250020-2
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: September 1, 2004
• Sequence Number: 20
• Content Type: NOTES

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"GRILL FLAME" Meeting, 30 October 1979, 1400 hrs, Rm 3E 988
Attendees: Dr. LaBerge, Dr. Ruth Davis, LTG Tighe, MG Thompson,
MG Brown and RADM Shapiro.
Dr. LaBerge: To be used as an R&D program rather than an in-
telligence program. The issue of the application is bound to
drive, more probably drive us into difficulties. I think we
should see whether or not things do exist to the degree --
sort of taking it out of the intelligence area and saying it
is an R&D issue, collection problem or not. It has caused
Murphy to consider the issue a problem and he chose to bring
the issue up. I check with Bill...
LTG Tighe: One of our problems is keeping track of the Russians.
The R&D thing is attractive if you are really are trying to lead
toward that operational capability. Now the big question comes
up -- can whatever you do survive and treat this as a normal R&D
program. It is my judgment that the Golden Fleece Award, and
no matter who has it -- I think the Golden Fleece Award comes
from people being less than quiet in their profession.
Dr._LaBer2_e: I still hope we can keep Rose's interest. We
should try and keep Proxmire off our backs.
LTG Tighe: I have a feeling that we are going to have a diffi-
cult time keeping anything quiet long enough to do anything.
The Army process ought to be working on intelligence-related
matters anyway -- only issue is whether it is intelligence per se,
and I have only come to this conclusion because Dan seems to...
One of the greatest trajedies of this whole thing is the development
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of to spy without spying.
Dr. Davis: The R&D aspects at the moment are what I would
call primitive and naive -- that if it came under R&D that
it would have to be changed and many years before results could
be seen. Work up until now has not been dishonest. Spoke with
Perry and he wanted no part of it (only spoke to him for 15
minutes or so). The only point that I think is showing up any-
thing is at the Fort Meade area where you have a bunch of
military people, they are doing exactly what they are told.
They don't know anything about the great enthusiasm and the gee
whiz part and they are doing it on a daily basis. Intelli-
gence R&D is separate from R&D. We need the committee report
next week.
Dr.LaBerge: I think the important thing is to understand where
the committee is and then sit down and decide whetherrrtsere is
any point in going further. I would believe that most of us
would be on the skeptical side that there is not going to be
support to do more -- but at any rate I would hope that the
report of the committee would pin down the position. The
distinction of whether it is intelligence or R&D is fuzzy tome
because all the work being done is essentially in response to
management's position of what ought to be done -- what is being
results of the
done by the Army assets. When we get the/committee report we
RHXXH13i1X.X must then sit down and really figure out what must
be done -- who should be the chaperone.
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Dr. Davis: I think that if there are results -- and I am sure
they will -- I would be surprised if they came up with a mori-
torium. Committee report is only input.
LTG Tiahe: To whom is the report being submitted?
Dr. Davis: Recollect that I was the recipient -- it was only as
a matter of convenience. I would strongly urge that this not
be an intelligence "policy" activity (emphasis on policy).
I think the worst thing that could be done is put it under the
"policy" rather than "R&D". (Dr. Davis departed at 1420)
Dr. LaBerge: Well I just want to check signals with you. If
you could tell me where the committee is at, Ed. Do you know?
MG Thompson: I don't think we know at the moment.
Dr__LaBer.ae: Why don't we get Dan who is not here today but
down at Belvoir to give us a very short course on what they
are coming in with and then I would like to sit down after
everyone has seen the report, thought about it, and then we
can talk about what ought to be done.
MG_Thom2son: When would the committee like to hear Gayle (?)
Dr._LaBerge: Will talk to Gayle (?) and set something up in
conjunction with your schedules
LTG_Tiphe: Did Congressman Rose tell you that he went to the
White House and spoke to the President about this and the
President is still interested.
MG Thompson: I think that whether it is intelligence or R&D
is primarily pragmatic.
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Dr._LaBery,e: Gene reminds me that intelligence R&D is different
from Davis R&D.
LTG_Tiy,he: As long as it is R&D the proper way to do it is to
find that it is not an issue of policy. It lets Dan off the
hook to a degree.
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