LETTER TO STANLEY SPORKIN FROM MARK RICHARD

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP95B00895R000300040023-4
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 27
• Document Creation Date: December 21, 2016
• Document Release Date: September 12, 2008
• Sequence Number: 23
• Publication Date: January 4, 1983
• Content Type: LETTER

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U .S. Departmei. f Justice
Criminal Division
,ce -S :s
Deputy Assistant Attorney General Washington, D.C. 20530
Mr. Stanley Sporkin
General Counsel
Central Intelligence Agency
Washington, D.C.
JAN 41883
Re: S. 2255, the Antiterrorism and
Foreign Mercenary Act
Dear Mr. Sporkin:
On September 23, 1982, I testified on behalf of the
Administration in regard to the captioned bill before the
Subcommittee on Security and Terrorism of the Committee on the
Judiciary of the United States Senate. A copy of the initial
draft of my actual testimony is attached for your information.
During the testimony, several questions were raised by the
Subcommittee for which supplemental responses are required.
We request your assistance in responding to the Subcommittee in
the following two areas:
(1) On pages 29-30, the Subcommittee requested
some specific examples of abuses by United
States persons or businesses that have
occurred which would be prosecutable
if S.2255 were enacted. It is requested
that your agency furnish us with a list of
such abuses which could be included in our
submission to the Subcommittee.
(2) On page 34, the Subcommittee asked for an
estimate of how widespread mercenary
activity was on the part of Americans.
Your response should not be limited to
such activity in Libya, but should
include other countries where you know
that United States citizens are providing
mercenary skills, either in training or
actual service, to foreign countries,
factions, or groups.
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It is requested that your response be directed to the
attention of Mr. Stephen M. Weglian of this Division who is
coordinating this effort. 1,1r. Weglian's telephone number is
724-7526. In order that we may respond promptly to the
Subcommittee, it is requested that your reply be furnished to
us on or before January 17, 1983.
Sincerely,
A-i
Mark Richard
Deputy Assistant Attorney General
Criminal Division
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STATEMENT OF MARK RICHARD, DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY
GENERAL, CRIMINAL DIVISION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE.
Mr. Richard. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman. It is a
pleasure to be here once more.
The Department of Justice supports the concepts behind
IS. 2255 if the changes we suggest are in fact incorporated into
the bill.
With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I would like, rather
than read my prepared remarks, to summarize them and submit
the full text for the record.
We believe that S. 2255, as modified, would close gaps in
existing law. It is, as already pointed out by Congressman
'Rinaldo, similar to legislation he introduced, H.R. 5211, on
the House side. These bills would prohibit the furnishing by
(Americans of various forms of assistance, essentially services,
to certain governments, factions, or terrorist groups.
The operative section of S. 2255, section Thee, provides
that it would be unlawful for any citizen or alien lawfully
admitted to the United States, or sole proprietorship,
partnership, corporation or association organized under the
laws of the United States to knowingly and willfully perform
or attempt to perform any of the enumerated acts with respect
to the government of Libya or any other foreign government,
faction, or terrorist group named in the presidential
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1 proclamation.
2 The prohibited-acts are, in essence, serving in the armed
3 forces or in any intelligence agency; providing training to the
4 armed forces or intelligence agencies; providing logistical,
5 mechanical, maintenance or similar support services to the
6 armed forces or intelligence agency; conducting any research,
7 manufacturing, or construction project primarily supportive of
8 the military or intelligence functions; and recruiting or
9 soliciting anyone to engage in any of the activities just
10 described.
11 It would make it unlawful for anyone within the United
12 States to knowingly and willfully perform or attempt to perform
13 any of these acts.
14 The penalty provision for violating this proposal would be
15 ten years in prison, a fine of five times the compensation
;6 received for the violation, or twenty-five thousand dollars,
17 whichever is greater, or both.
18 Forfeitures are also provided for elsewhere in the bill.
19 Subsection c provides that the President may, when he
20 determines that it is warranted for national security, foreign
21 relations, or commerce interests of the United States, issue a
22 proclamation naming any foreign government, faction, or
23 terrorist group as being subjected to the ban on receiving
24 services previously enumerated.
25 There is provision, of course, for the revocation of any
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proclamation made by the President due to changing circum-
stances.
Mr. Chairman, we would suggest several changes to this
legislation. We have set forth in the appendix to my remarks
specific changes we suggest and the reasons for them. I would
like just to discuss briefly several particular areas which,
in our judgment, warrant changes and additional attention.
To begin with, we think the focus of the legislation
should be aimed at international terrorism. In this connec-
tion, we suggest that the legislation incorporate the defini-
tion for international terrorism currently contained in the
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
Additionally, we suggest that the bill specifically
exclude any properly authorized and conducted intelligence
activities of the United States Government.
We also believe that the criminal forfeiture provision be
rewritten to correspond to existing legal practices and be
drafted in such a fashion that anticipated future congres-
sional improvements will immediately be incorporated into this
legislation. We believe that the definition of business
currently in the bill is overly restrictive and would provide a
major loophole for would-be offenders.
With respect to the specific naming of Libya in-the
legislation, we would defer to our colleagues at the State
Department.
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while we feel that the standards for the President in
issuing the proclamation in the bill are constitutionally
adequate, we do suggest that the term "commerce interests" be
dropped and replaced with a more descriptive phrase.
Finally, this bill is designed to prohibit providing
support services to military or intelligence branches of hos-
tile governments or groups. However, the type of activities
~ b
set forth in subparagraphs AJ A (d) and~A) T 'o (d) can be viewed
as even going further than that. Thus, Congress may wish to
either eliminate these two subsections or narrow them
appreciably.
These, as I indicate, are just the more significant areas
that we suggest additional attention and drafting time be
allowed. We do think, in conclusion, that the bill does
address a need and that this is very significant legislation
which would appreciably assist us in dealing with a serious
problem.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Denton. Thank you, Mr. Richard. Without objec-
tion, your statement will be inserted into the record.
[Material referred to follows:]
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Senator Denton. I appreciate the emphasis placed on
I osition at
2 preliminary thinking. Of course, that is also our p
this point. We have had this legislation to look over for a
3 over the
Very short period of time. I did study it carefully
4
S past couple of nights at home. It occurred to me--and this is
6 just an off-the-top-of-the-head observation--but i want to
check it against your own immediate reactions. Rather than
7
take the tack that the President should name nations and
8
rou s with all of the hazards which you have just mentioned
9 g p
with respect to the government of Libya and whatever other
10
nations or groups he might choose to mention, would it not be
11
better to list the practices which we would call into question
14
such as supplying training for terrorists, et cetera? And
13
then we could place a punishment on those who would violate
14 art of
15 the following. Each transaction, each action on the p
individuals or corporations, which would fall into the cate-
16
17 gories which are more or less outlined in this legislation,
would have to be cleared by either State or justice or in some
1a
.19 place in the administration. Then you do not have to go
through all this bag of worms of trying to identify who is
20
doing what at any time and all of the interpretation of
41
22 whether it is military or civilian and that sort of thing.
23 If they do it without being cleared, then they got punished.
24 Wilson and Terpil, as would many others, would fall under that
25 approach.
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I admit that would require major alternation to the
approach taken by the bill. But much of what is in here
already could be sustained with respect to the kind of activity
involved, and then each case would have to require clearance.
Would that general approach have any merit?
Mr.(Richard.) Well, it certainly is an approach that
could be utilized to deal with the problem. There are various
tradeoffs involved, that is, the approach reflected in the
cx i,otci .
Export Administration Act, the ArmsnControl Act, and so forth.
However, by having what -I would refer to as a straight
criminalization of certain conduct.once the President issued a
proclamation, you are, of course, affirmatively condemning, if
you will, a course of conduct which you would not otherwise
have where you are merely issuing it approving licenses, if you
will. One is a more forceful; condemnation of certain types of
behavior, I think, than a purely regulatory system where you
seek prior approval for the conduct.
The types of services that you have in mind, I think, to
be covered here are far more subtle, if you will, than the
types of licensing procedures now in effect. The types of
individuals that I think we are trying to reach are far dif-
ferent than those we encounter in other regulatory fields
where you are dealing with legitimate business entities and
what have you.
So, there are tradeoffs involved, although I would
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certainly admit that your suggested approach is a viable one
for dealing with the problem.
Senator Denton. Certainly I do not mean it as a conclu-
sion I have reached. It was just something that occurred to
me, that we will want to switch it from sort of the negative to
the positive. Then, were one to plead all he is doing is
shipping some statuettes, that is fine; but after the fact
it is decided that those were used and he had reason to
believe that they would be used for such and such an activity,
then he could be punished.
Are you not suggesting a million-dollar fine instead of a
twenty-five thousand dollar fine?
Mr. Smith. That is correct, Mr. Chairman. To amplify
what Mr. Richard said, certainly a straight criminalization of
these activities has its advantages. On the other hand, as I
!l_39ested in my prepared remarks, from the point of view of
the Department of State, we think the licensing scheme which is
a variation of the idea that you proposed seems to us to offer
a lot of advantages which should be considered carefully.
Senator Denton. Would you be so kind as to contribute
perhaps alternative wordings that we might build from in that
direction?
Mr. Smith. We would be happy to do that, Senator.
Senator Denton. Would either or both of you give the
Subcommittee some specific examples of the abuses by U.S.
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persons or businesses which have occurred which would be
prosecutable if S.. 2255 is enacted, some version thereof,
without repeating any of the more publicized examples which
have taken place?
Mr. Smith. Of course.
Mr. Richard. Certainly, the providing of training to
military groups, drawing up of military manuals and the like
certainly come to mind as being covered by this typo of legis-
lation. The list would be endless, Senator.
Senator Denton. For the record, it would be helpful for
us, just in terms of a list to which we could refer, terse
what history has contained. If you could do that in writing
after the hearing, it might be of considerable use.
On pages one and two of your testimony, Mr. Richard, you
state that, if the President or Congress determines that the
national security, foreign relations or commerce interests of
the U.S. warrant a ban on certain kinds of assistance to a
particular foreign government, faction, or terrorist group,
this assistance should cease. This implies that there are
times when certain kinds of assistance to a terrorist group is
appropriate. Do you mean to manifest that position? If so,
would you cite examples?
Mr. Richard. No, I am suggesting that the legislation
is designed to deal with those types of activities by foreign
governments and international terrorist groups that are of
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primary importance to this government that affect directly our
interests. I think the reference was not that any of this
behavior is appropriate but, rather, that there are different
degrees of concern that we have with specific types of conduct.
Senator Denton. That signal was the warning for me for a
vote on the floor. I will take recourse in the exception
which permits the staff counsel to continue with questioning
when that questioning is not under oath. I will excuse
myself and return. This is Mr. Joel Lisker.
Mr. Lisker. As we understand it, you prefer that the
focus of S. 2255 deal with international terrorism. In the
view of either of you, is it appropriate to proscribe such
conduct with respect to domestic terrorist groups or factions?
If that is the case, is this bill the vehicle for accomplishing
that goal? If that is an objective that can be reasonably
foreseen as capable of being accomplished, should that be the
vehicle of separate legislation?
Mr. Richard. Just as a preliminary response, I would
just say that I think that the issue of dealing with domestic
groups goes way beyrnd the thrust of this proposed legisla-
tion. it involves different issues. I would suggest that we
not attempt to merge those issues in one comprehensive piece
of legislation.
Mr. Lisker. In your view, does the department have a
position with respect to the proposal in separate legislation?
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Is that a matter which is under consideration or to which con-
sideration might be given by the department with respect to
domestic terrorist organizations and support that exists here
for those groups?
Mr. Richard. Nothing that I am aware of that would be
analogous in approach for dealing with the problem. I am not
aware of any such proposals at this time.
Mr. Lisker. I was passed a note here. Senator Denton
asked me to ask this question specifically.
Assume I am a U.S. citizen--which, of course, I am--in the
United States or abroad who is supplying training to a group in
Libya which is comprised of members who are not Libyans, such
as the PLO, assuming that the PLO were--I think that it can be
safely assumed that there may be a PLO representation in Libya
--which, in turn, is training a Libyan military or intelligence`
service. In your view, would S. 2255 as presently drafted
reach the conduct by the U.S. citizen, that is, a U.S.
citizen training a group which is not composed of Libyans but
which is physically located in Libya and which in turn is
training Libyans?
Mr. Richard. My response to that is that the question
can be looked at in two ways. Assuming that the group is under
the control of Libya and the legislation was passed with Libya
identified as it is currently in the legislation, then I think
it is an evidentiary issue: did the defendant have sufficient
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knowledge of that relationship such as to expose him to the
penalties under the bill? As a practical matter, without that
proof, if it was just the PLO happening to be in Libya and
that was the relationship that the Libyan government was
tolerating their existence within the borders and nothing
further, then I seriously question whether it would reach the
activities of that group in your hypothetical.
Mr. Lisker. This is Dr. Francis, who is Senator East's
designee to the committee. He has some questions.
Mr. Francis. Thank you. Mr. Richard, I am not entirely
familiar with the Wilson and Terpil case. But it seems to me
that Wilson is already under indictment. Am I correct in
saying that Terpil has been convicted of offenses previously?
Mr. Richard. He has been convicted in New York, in state
court, yes.
Mr. Francis. I am unclear exactly on what harmful
activities we cannot prosecute already under current law.
Perhaps you explained that earlier but I missed it. Would you
go into that?
Mr. Richard. Because these cases are in active litiga-
tion, I would respectfully request that we not discuss those
particular matters.
Mr. Francis. Right.
Mr. Richard. There are, as I think we have indicated,
what I will describe as gaps in existing law. By that I mean
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P*s, . "W-
that, while you may have something on the books in the area, it
does not take much ingenuity to avoid coverage and falling
under existing laws. The neutrality laws are notorious, I
think, in that regard.
So, while you may have a particular statute which super-
ficially appears to deal with certain types of conduct, on
reflection you can see anybody with a certain amount of effort
can easily devise and structure his or her affairs in such a
way as to get around it.
Mr. Francis. Do you have any estimate of how widespread
this type of activity on the part of Americans is, mercenary
activity? Not just in regard to Libya, but I mean is this a
common criminal activity on the part of Americans?
Mr. Richard. I could not give you an estimate, but__I
could certainly try to obtain'that information for you.
Mr. Francis. I think Sejr}tor East would like to have some
indication of how necessary the need for a law like this is
before actually supporting it. So, we would appreciate it.
Mr. Richard. I will try to obtain that.
Mr. Francis. I have no more questions.
Mr. Lisker. Mr. Richard, assume that the army of a
foreign government covered by the presidential proclamation,
assuming that S. 2255 becomes law, is engaged in funding and
providing training to an international terrorist group. A
United States intelligence officer is able to persuade a junior
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officer of that army to provide on a continuing basis informa-
tion identifying the members of the terrorist groups. The
junior army officer fears for his life and insists that he will
provide the information only if a means can be found for him
to communicate it without coming into further personal contact
with the U.S. intelligence officer. The U.S. intelligence
officer wishes to provide the junior army officer with a com-
plicated but easily concealable communications device by use
of which he can transmit information. The U.S. intelligence
officer furnishes the device to the junior army officer and
trains him in its use.
Under these circumstances, would the U.S. intelligence
officer appear to have engaged in conduct that would violate
section Seven Hundred Ninety-One A(One)b of S. 2255, which
prohibits any U.S. citizen from providing training in any
c"pacity to a member of the armed forces of a presidentially
(designated terrorist government or group?
In my judgment, you would not have the
requisite criminal intent to support a conclusion that the
statute was violated if the activity was duly authorized by our
government. We, nevertheless, suggest that that issue be dealt
with by having an explicit exclusion, a national security type
of exclusion in the legislation to avoid that issue entirely.
Mr. Lisker. It is just an abundance of caution?
Mr. Richard. Yes.
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Mr. Lisker. What impact will this bill have on the
so-called soldiers of fortune who fight or provide training,
for example, in the army of Jonas Sevimbi against the Cubans
and Angolans in Angola or with the Afghanistani rebels against
the Soviets in Afghanistan? Are there any laws on the books
which already proscribe such conduct? If you know what they
are, would you tell us about them?
Mr. Richard. Again, it is difficult to generalize, as you
know, because each transaction, each incident can give rise to
jurisdiction, if you will, under one or more statutes,
depending on the nuances of the transaction. So, it is hard to
say that a given course of conduct would under all circum-
stances not be covered by some law on the books. But, assuming
that the executive branch, the President issued the required
proclamation and felt it was in the national interest to do
so and so forth, it would occur to me that there could be
coverage under that act.
Mr. Lisker. Mr. Smith, S. 2255 is silent on the question
of raising money. We are dealing here with services and cer-
tain technical skills, but nothing is said about money. Money,
of course, can buy services and technical skills, construction,
and so on.
Do you think it would be appropriate to expand the pro-
scribed conduct to include the solicitation, collection, dis-
bursal, dispensing of contributions, loans, money or other
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things of value in the interest of such government, faction, or
group?
Mr. Smith. I think that raises a number of questions, Mr.
Lisker, that would have to be looked at carefully. My initial
instinct is that it would not be advisable to extend it to that
activity. I think Mr. Richard might have some additional
thoughts from the point of view of the Department of Justice.
Mr. Richard. Again, I would suggest not expanding the
scope of this bill to reach the fund-raising situation.
Mr. Lisker. Well, the problem from our perspective, that
is, you have the Provisional IRA. I guess you could probably
get an argument as to whether or not they are a terrorist
organizations we happen to think they are. We have in the
United States a group called the Irish Northern Aid Committee,
which the Southern District of New York has recently concluded
is an agent of the Provisional IRA; and the Second Circuit
seemed to agree with that conclusion. They claim to raise
money for the Green Cross, and the prisoners' relief fund, and
all that, but there are some who are skeptical among us that
think that some of that money goes for the purchase of guns
and ammunition.
There are a lot of people in this country that support the
IRA through fund-raising drives of various types and descrip-
tions and support the Irish Northern Aid Committee. Do you
think that it is appropriate that that activity by U.S. persons
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should continue? Or do you think that we should devise a
vehicle by which such fund-raising activity for a terrorist
organization becomes illegal?
I am really looking for a response not specifically with
respect to the IRA. I use that only as an obvious example, but
there are other organizations that would fit that definition.
Mr. Richard. Obviously--Active and knowing support of
international terrorist groups is reprehensible. But what
gives me the pause and the hesitation is trying to come up with
the outlines of the legislation which would avoid various
issues that are obviously latent in trying to deal with the
area. So, it is because of my concern with those issues that I
am hesitant to say yes it is a good idea.
I would certainly reiterate that I think it goes way
beyond the thrust of this particular proposal. I do not see
how this proposed legislation would easily deal with that kind
Mr. Lisker. It just strikes me that, if the thrust of
this proposal is to diminish the quality and amount of services
which a terrorist government might receive from U.S. persons,
that, if we make the funds available, assuming that they are
an impoverished terrorist government--Libya does not happen to
fit that definition--but assuming that the funds are not
plentiful, if we provide the funds for them to acquire the
technology or the expertise or training or whatever it is that
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they are seeking from third countries, then really all we have
done is forced it'into another channel.
Mr. Richard. The bill is directed at a fairly direct
rendition of aid and services. It does contain the humani-
tarian exemption, and that, of course, reflects the recognition
that there are tradeoffs involved.
Mr. Lisker. With respect to a humanitarian exemption, is
it not a fact, or would you agree, that, when money is legiti-
mately or legally raised for humanitarian purposes, that frees
up funds which the terrorists themselves have to divert from
the purchase of arms and so forth for that purpose, thereby, in
a sense, enhancing their capabilities because they no longer
have to be concerned about the humanitarian aspect of their
operation?
Mr. Richard. From an accountant's point of view, yes, I
agree with you.
Mr. Francis. Mr. Richard, in addition to the information
that I requested earlier, I would like to request if you could
provide whatever specific exa pies of existing loopholes in
the current laws that you think are reasonable, I would appre-
ciate that, too.
Mr. Richard. Certainly.
Mr. Francis. Thank you.
Mr. Lisker. Now do you reach a group that uses
humanitarian purpose as a cover, whether you call it the Red
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Crescent or the Green Cross or whatever?
Mr. Richard. 1 am not sure that I appreciate the thrust
of your question. when you say use as cover---
Mr. Lisker. In other words, if a group says that we are
raising money for the Red Crescent Society, the Islamic Red
Cross, or the Mogen David, the Jewish equivalent, or the Green
Cross, the Irish equivalent, that is what they say they are
raising the money fora So, people of good will give to that
organization. Then it'turns out that was not exactly the
purpose, that that humanitarian organization was simply a
conduit for the money. he people in that organization were
cooperating with the terrorists and actually just acting as a
channel.
How do you get to those groups? How do you stop that
activity? In my understandin that is a fairly common way in
which funds are raised for ostensibly humanitarian purposes,
but in fact the funds never reach the beneficiaries.
Mr. Richard. It is somewhat analogous to other schemes
that we are encountering with regularity on the domestic front
where you have charity solicitations being made based on false
representations. Of course, in the normal course of events,
those are treated as misrepresentations and are thus suscep-
tible to treatment under traditional fraud concepts and mis-
representation concepts.
I think, as a practical matter, education, though, of the
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public is the key to impacting on the problem. Your hypo-
thetical assumes-that, if the public is aware of the intended
use of the monies, they would not contribute and thus, pre-
sumably, education alone would effectively deal with the
problem.
Mr. Lisker. With respect to the naming of Libya in the
bill as it now stands, we have heard some testimony--as a
result.of your opening statements, I think, specifically--on
the disadvantages of such an approach. What about countries
like the Soviet Union, political entities like SWAPO, the
Southwest African People's Organization, the Popular Front for
the Liberation of Palestine, the African National Congress,
the Palestine Liberation Organization? Would they under any
conceivable set of circumstances, would they likely become
part of this bill? It seems to me that the criteria which are
set forth are not that specific. So, I would assume there
would be wide discretion on the part of the President or those
who advise him on reaching this decision. After all, the
Soviet Union supports international terrorism. I think we have
established that in many hearings. I do not think that is a
secret.
Mr. Smith. I cannot, of course, speak for what some
President would do should this law be enacted. But I can say
that we are presently required by the Fenwick amendment to the
Export Administration Act to list countries that repeatedly
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1 22
provide support for international terrorism. At the moment,
we list Libya, Cuba, Syria, and South Yemen. It seems to me
that is a standard not inconsistent with the purpose of this
bill.
Mr. Lisker. With respect to establishing criteria, it
seems to me that, in order for the President to reach this
decision based on the criteria which are specified here, he is
going to have very broad latitude.
Do you agree that that broad latitude should be afforded?
Or do you think that it should be much narrower, that is that
the criteria should be more susceptible to objective applica-
tion and less discretion?
Mr. Richard. Certainly from a constitutional point of
view we think it is adequate now. We do not want to find our-
selves in a position where we have to litigate the validity of
whether a certain group named is in fact a terrorist group and
what have you. We do not think that that is an item subject to
litigation in the course of the prosection.
As I indicated, I think that this is sufficient, consti-
tutionally adequate, and provides maximum flexibility.
Mr. Lisker. When the department did its analysis of this
bill, I assume that the constitutional question was thoroughly
analyzed from the conclusion which was stated.
Mr. Richard. Yes, from the department's point of view.
Mr. Lisker. Would it be possible to provide us with that
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 C.)
C)
SAGE NQ,
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product? The reason that I ask for it, I expect that, when we
get to the full committee with this bill, there will be those
who might disagree. It would be useful to have that product to
share with the minority and those members of the majority who
might disagree.
What is the advantage or purpose in using the definition
of foreign government found in section Eleven Hundred Sixteen
B(Two) of Title Eighteen as opposed to the standard definition
found in section Eleven of Title Eighteen? There is a specific
reason, I would assume, for including this definition.
Mr. Richard. Yes, Mr. Lisker, we felt the one we advocate
is a narrower definition. The other one, as you know, picks up
insurgent groups and the like. We feel within the context of
this proposed legislation it already reaches factions, and we
feel the narrower approach is the more appropriate one for
purposes of this legislation.
Mr. Lisker. I think you may have already responded to
this, but would you please answer it for the record?
Do you feel that the penalties presently set out in this
bill are substantial enough to reflect the gravity of the
offense? Are they consistent with other statutory penalties
presently in force?
Mr. Richard. The penalties in this area, of course, span
the gamut from being very light to more significant. To
/4? USC'.j1fI
s '.Ata.-nna
characterize it in the mid-range, if you will, nine
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24
PAGE NO.
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comes to mind. It also includes a ten-year penalty. The range:
of fine is realistic although I certainly would welcome an
additional potential fine other than the twenty-five thousand
or five times the amount of the compensation.
I envision that, unlike other statutes where you have a
serious of violations, this will probably be a single viola-
tion the way it is currently worded, that the total exposure
from any prosecution would be the ten years plus the
twenty-five thousand dollar fine.
Senator Denton. Mr. Richard, on pages one and two of your
prepared statement, you state: "Under accepted international
law principles the Congress has the power to regulate and
punish conduct of United States citizens and others owing
permanent allegiance to the United States wherever they may
be."
Would you provide the Subcommittee with a more detailed
analysis of this power of Congress and the principles, both
international and domestic, upon which they rest?
Mr. Richard. It is the so-called international principle
of jurisdiction. We would be glad to provide you with
material on that principle.
Senator Denton. Also in your statement you recommend
amending the forfeiture provisions presently contained in the
bill. Would you describe more fully the changes you are
suggesting, giving the department's rationale for the changes?
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 Approved For Release 2008/09/12 : CIA-RDP95B00895R000300040023-4 i0.
Mr. Richard. Mr. Chairman, the administration has sup-
ported extensive revision of the general forfeiture provisions.
They are quite complex and quite lengthy. I will be glad to
submit that for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Denton. I would like to thank you both very much.
In case you leave before the usual statement at the end about
responding to questions ithin ten days after submission we
invite your attention to that. Thank you very much for your
helpfulness.
I now call on the Honorable John M. Maury, President of
the Association of Former Intelligence Officers. I welcome
John warner, also.
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STAT
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 Approved For Release 2008/09/12 : CIA-RDP95B00895R000300040023-4
24 January 1983
FROM:
Chief, Legislation Division
SUBJECT: Letter from Mark Richard
Stan:
I spoke to Richard this morning and I have drafted
a new response from you to him accordingly.
STAT
STAT
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