PLAYBOY INTERVIEW: JIM GARRISON A CANDID CONVERSATION WITH THE EMBATTLED DISTRICT ATTORNEY OF NEW ORLEANS

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP75-00149R000300040043-1
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 28
• Document Creation Date: November 11, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 20, 1999
• Sequence Number: 43
• Publication Date: October 1, 1967
• Content Type: NSPR

OCT /967. PI9v,509
Sanitized - Appro
PLAYBOY INTERVIEW:
cmaGzid:fd conversation with the embattled district attorney of new orleans
ReastIA-
On February 17, 1967, the New
Orleans States-Item broke a story that
would electrify the world?and hurl
district attorney Jim Garrison into a
bitter fight for his political life. An enter-
prising reporter, checking vouchers filed
with the city by the district attorney's
office, discovered that Garrison had spent
over $8000 investigating the assassina-
tion of President Kennedy. "Has the
district attorney discovered valuable
additional evidence," the States-Item
asked editorially, "or is he merely saving
sonic interesting new information that
will gain for him exposure in a national
magazine?" Stung, Garrison counter-
attacked, confirming that an inquiry into
Kennedy's assassination was under way
and charging that the States-Item's "irre-
sponsible" revelation "has now created a
problem for us in finding witnesses and
getting cooperation from other witnesses
and in at least one case has endangered
the life of a witness."
On February 18, newsmen from all
over the world converged on New Orleans
to hear Garrison announce at a press
conference: "We have been investigat-
ing the role of the city of New Or-
leans in the assassination of President
Kennedy, and we have made some
progress?I think substantial progress.. ..
What's more, there will be arrests." As
reporters flashed news of Garrison's
statement across the world, a 49-year-old
New Orleans pilot, David Ferrie, told
newsmen that the district attorney had
him "pegged as the getaway pilot in an
elaborate plot to kill Kennedy." Ferric, a
bizarre figure who wore a flaming-red
wig, false eyebrows and make-up to con-
ceal burns he had suffered years before,
denied any involvement in a conspiracy
to hill the President. Garrison, he said,
was out to frame him. Four days later,
Ferrie was found dead in his shabby
three-room apartment in New Orleans,
ostensibly of natural causes?though he
left behind two suicide notes.
The press had greeted Garrison's ini-
tial claims about a conspiracy with a
measure of skepticism, but Ferric's death
was front-page news around the world.
Garrison broke his self-imposed silence
-to charge that Ferrie was "a man who, in
my judgment, was one of history's most
important individuals." According to
Garrison, "Mr. Ferrie was one of those
individuals I had in mind when I said
there would be arrests shortly. We had
reached a decision to arrest him early
next week. Apparently we waited too
long." But Garrison vowed that Ferric's
death would not halt his investigation,
and added, "My staff and I solved the
assassination weeks ago. I wouldn't say
this if we didn't have the evidence
beyond a shadow of a doubt. We know
the key individuals, the cities involved
and how it was done."
On March 1, Garrison eclipsed even the
headlines from his previous press confer-
ence by announcing the arrest of Clay
Shaw, a wealthy New Orleans business-
man and real-estate developer, on
charges of conspiring to assassinate John
F. Kennedy. One of New Orleans' most
prominent citizens, Shaw was a founder
and director of the city's prestigious
International Trade Mart from 1947
to 1965, when he retired to devote his
time to playwriting and restoring his-
toric homes in the old French Quarter.
The day after Shaw's arrest, Garrison
declared that "Shaw was none other .
than Clay Bertrand," the shadowy
queen bee of the New Orleans homo-
sexual underworld, who, according to
attorney Dean Andrews' testimony be-
fore the Warren Commission, called
him the day after the assassination and
asked him to rush to Dallas to defend
Oswald. Shaw heatedly denied his guilt:
"I never heard of any plot and I never
used any alias in my life." But New Or-
leans society, which had long counted
Shaw one of its own, was stunned.
On March 14, a panel of three judges
heard Garrison's case in a preliminary
hearing to determine if there was
enough evidence against Shaw to bring
him to trial. Perry Raymond Russo, a 25-
year-old life-insurance salesman from
Baton Rouge who had once been Ferric's
"roommate," testified that in mid-Septem-
ber of 1963, he had attended a meeting
at Ferrie's apartment where Shaw, Lee
Harvey Oswald and Ferrie discussed
means of assassinating the President in a
"To read the press accounts of my investi-
gation, I'm a cross between Al Capone
and Attila the Hun?bribing, threaten-
ing innocent men. Anybody who employs
".e-e meti'eds shckuld be disbarred."
"A number of the men who killed the "President Kennedy was killed for one
President were former employees of the reason: because he was working for a rec-
CIA involved in its anti-Castro under- onciliation with the U.S.S.R. and Castro's
ground activities in the New Or/earFe4tAb3bba. His assassins were a group of fa-
The CIA hnows tho'r'clo S " urt G\14 UI GAIIC.5.
Sanitized - Approved For REFtwkinic
CPYRGHT Sanitized - Approved For Release : CIA-RDP75-00149R000300040043-1
60
"triangulation of cross fire." Garrison's
second witness, Vernon Bundy, a 29-
year-old former narcotics addict, testified'
that in the summer of 1963, he saw Shaw
pass a sum of money to Lee Harvey Os-
wald on the shore of Lake Pontchar-
train. On March 17, after a four-day
hearing, Judges Malcolm 17. O'Hara,
Bernard J. Bagert and Matthew S. Bra-
niff ruled there WaS sufficient evidence to
hold Clay Shaw for trial. Garrison's hand
uyis further strengthened on March 22,
when a 12-member grand jury of promi-
nent New Orleans citizens, em paneled to
hear Garrison's case, also ruled there
were sufficient grounds to bring Shaw to
court. Pending trial?which is scheduled
to begin sometime this inonth?Shaw..
was alio:sled to go free on $.10,000 bail. -
The American press remained dubious
about Garrison's ability to prove his
charges in court, and domestic coverage I
of and commentary on the district attar-
ney's case thereafter was, at best, low-key
?at worst., contemptuous. But as News-
week reported on March 20, "In Europe,
where thousands still cling to the con-
spiracy theory in spite of the Warren
Commission's conclusion that Lee Har-
vey Oswald acted alone . . . Garrison
and his investigation have been the stuff
of page-one headlines." "Pm encouraged
by the support Europe is bringing me,"
he told a Paris-Match reporter. "Every
day, I receive letters and telegrams from
all the capitals. I've even had six tele-
phone calls from Moscow." One Was from
Literaturnaya Gazeta, a prestigious Mos-
cow literary magazine, which ran an in-
terview with Garrison concluding that
there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy
but that Oswald "definitely wasn't the
key figure in it."
Garrison also had his supporters in the
U. S. Boston's Richard Cardinal Cushing,
father-confessor to, the Kennedy family,
said of the New Orleans probe on March
16: "I think they should follow it through.
. . . I never believed that the assassina-
tion was the work of one man." And
Representative 1?oina /7 Pucinslri, an
Illinois Democrat, said: "I'm surprised
1110re attention hasn't been paid to the
ruling that Clay Shaw go out trial for par-
ticipating in a plot to assassinate Presi-
dent Kennedy. These aren't nuts but
three judges talking. It's a new ball
game." Senator Russell Long of Louisi-
ana also backed up Garrison?an old po-
litical ally?contending that he was only
doing "what a district attorney should
do." And perennial il'arrezt Report critic
Mark Lane (himself a PLAYBOY inter-
viewee last February), whose best-selling
"Rush to Judgment" helped persuade
.Garrison to launch his investigation, said
after a conference with Garrison in New
Orleans that the D.A.'s probe would
"break the entire case wide open."
poll of May 29 revealed that 66 percent
of the American public now believes
there was a conspiracy to assassinate
Kennedy, and "a major contributor to
this swelling doubt is the investigation
into the assassination by New Orleans
district attorney Jim Garrison." Even
with public opinion on his side, Garrison
was running into difficulties on several
fronts by early summer. Three witnesses
he wished to question about their com-
plicity in the assassination had fled Loui-
siana, and he was unable to obtain their
extradition to Nero Orleans?a seldom-
encountered roadblock he credits to the
CIA, "which knows that some of its
former employees were involved in the
Kennedy assassination and is doing
everything possible to frustrate my in-
vestigation in order to preserve the
Agency's good name." The CIA refuses
to comment on Garrison's charges:
Garrison was also under heavy fire
over the improper methods allegedly em-
ployed by his staff. The most blistering
indictment of his probe was an NBC
television .special on June 19, charging
that Garrison's investigalms had tried to
bribe three potential witnesses?Alvin
Beauboeuf, Miguel Torres and Fred Lee-
mans?to testify against Shaw; that Gar-
rison's staff had attempted to induce a
burglar, John Candler, to plant false evi-
dence in Clay Shaw's home; and that
Garrison had allowed Perry Russo and
Vernon Bundy to testify against Shaw
even though they had previously failed
lie-detector tests. NBC added that its in-
vestigators had also unearthed the real
"Clay Bertrand"; and though NBC didn't
name him, it said that he was not Clay
Shaw. Subsequently, NBC might have
had second thoughts about its expos, for
the network granted Garrison an unprece-
dented 30 minutes of prime Saturday-
evening time to rebut its own findings.
Garrison charged that the three wit-
nesses who claimed his aids had tried to
bribe them were perjurers. He also de-
nied that his office had approached john
Candler to burglarize Shaw's home, and
staled flatly that both Russo and Bundy
had passed their polygraph tests. On the
hey point of the "real" Clay Bertrand,
Garrison said that he knew the identity
of the individual NBC was talking about
and that he was definitely not the man
who called attorney Dean Andrews to
gain legal aid for Lee Harvey Oswald.
Undismayed?and uncle/erred?by all
the charges and countercharges, Garri-
son still says, "We are going to win this
case, and anyone who bets against us is
going to lose his money." The embattled
district attorney may be overconfident,
but he has a history of winning every
fight he starts. Born in Dennison, Iowa,
on November 20, 1921, Garrison. flew an
unarmored spotter plane for the artillery
in France and Germany during I-Vo
New Orleans to wortu as an assistant
district attorney until 1961, Tu/len he re-
signed with a scorching attack on Mayor
Victor H. Schiro, whom he charged with
corruption and failure to rigorously en-
force the law.
Garrison entered the race for district
attorney as a fiercely uncompromising
reform candidate, lambasting the "po-
litical machine" of Mayor Schiro and
characterizing the incumbent district
attorney, Richard Dowling, as "the great
emancipator?he let everybody go free."
Garrison, six feet. six, and 240 pounds,
was quickly dubbed the "Jolly Green
Giant." He had no political organization
and not much money, but his personal
magnetism and refusal to compromise
appealed to the New Orleans elector-
ate. He defeated Dowling handily and
promptly began convicting men on
charges his predecessor had dropped.
Garrison's five years as district attor-
ney have been stormy. He outraged
many of his former supporters in the
business community by launching a
campaign against vice on Bourbon
Street, charging that B-girls were merci-
lessly fleecing na? tourists. Garrison
cleaned op Bourbon Street himself, per-
sonally padlocking many honliy-tonks
and striptease clubs. But his toughest
fight?until the current one?came in
1962, when he announced that the re-
fusal of the city's eight criminal-court
judges to approve funds for his in-
vestigations of organized crime "raised
interesting questions about racketeer in-
fluences." The judges promptly charged
Garrison with defamation of character
and criminal libel?and a state court
fined him $1000. Garrison appealed
the case all the way to the Supreme
Court, and on. November 23, 1964, in a
landmark decision on the right to criti-
cize public officials, the nation's highest
tribunal reversed Isis conviction, con len d-
ing that "speech concerning public affairs
is more than self-expression; it is the
essence of self-government." Never one
to turn the other cheek, Garrison sub-
sequently employed his political influence
to unseat a number of the judges when
they came up for re-election.
The district attorney's independence
has at times nettled both left and right in
New Orleans. When the police depart-
ment tried to prosecute a bookdealer for
selling James Baldwin's "Another Coun-
try," Garrison stepped in with a broad-
side against censorship and :von the
man's release?promptly bringing down
on his head the wrath of the local White
Citizens Council. At the other end of the
political spectrum, Ire has been criticized
by the liberal. American Civil Liberties
Union, which (Ice accused him of try-
ing an alleged rapist "in the press rather
than in the courtroom." But Negro
If nothing &i GrrisonowaosKertair4 (Ty Tuxkard then amgftt as been
affecting pub199
gP r PRI; e Mgoi 01:4-00600**01004/0/1??v i?
cpyRGpffnitized - Approved For Release : CIA-RDP75-00149R000300040043-1
ns last bid for re-election, he polled as
well in the Negro precincts as he did in
he white.
The years 1965 and 1966 were?by
3arrison's standards?relatively quiet.
Tlis only major public controversy during
his period flared up when he interceded
(nth Louisiana Governor John McKeith-
m to win a pardon for a local stripper
lamed Linda Birgette, who had been
-on vie/cd on a charge of lewd dancing.
iarrison claimed it was impossible to
le fine obscenity in literature or the arts
znd argued that jailing Miss Birgette
trout(' be a "gross miscarriage of jus-
ice." McKeithen acceded to his pleas
znd, despite cries of protest from local
5luenoses, the incident served to in-
-ease Garrison's popularity.
The same could hardly be said of his
7urrent probe, which has made him both
target for abuse?justified or other-
vise?that has tended to obscure rather
Ittin clarify, the issues involved in the
investigation, and a victim of often one-
tided press coverage that NBC's half
hour of equal time has done little to rec-
!ify. In PLAYBOY'S opinion, Garrison has
not yet had the chance to present his
tide of the case?in court or out?with-
9-ut expurgation or editorializing. We
Feel he ought to have that chance.
Toward this end, in Mid-July, we ap-
broached the embattled district attorney
with our offer of an impartial, open-
ended interview. The 12-hour cross-
examination that followed?in the midst
)1 Garrison's round-the-clock investigation
?was conducted in the living room of
the two-story home he shares with his
blonde wife and three young children in
s tree-lined residential neighborhood of
Jew Orleans. As the dog-tired district
ittorney stretched his long legs across a
:ouch, battered briar pipe (a political
!rademark) in one hand, a vodka Martini
'his favorite drink.) in the other, PLAYBOY
nterviewerVEric Norden began by asking
'dm to answer the most damaging charges
f his critics.
'LAYBOY: You have been accused?by
.he National Broadcasting Company,
Vewsweek, the New Orleans Metropoli-
.an Crime Commission and your own
ormer investigative aide William Gur-
vich?of attempts to intimidate witnesses,
3f engaging in criminal conspiracy and
af inciting to such felonies as perjury,
:Timinal defamation and public bribery.
[-low do you respond to these charges?
3ARRISON: I've stopped beating my
Nile. All the charges you enumerate
lave been made with one purpose in
nind?to place our office on the defen-
ive and make us waste valuable time
nswering allegations that have no basis
fact. Also involved is a psychological
Ty-product valuable to those who don't
sunt the truth about Kennedy's assassi-
aation to become known: The very repe-
.ition of a charge. lends it a certain
62 :redibility, SanftgedavAppromed
to believe that where there's smoke,
there's fire?although I find it difficult to
believe that the public will put much
credence in most of the dastardly deeds
I've been accused of in the past few
months. Just recently, for example, the
rumor went around that my staff was
peddling marijuana to high school stu-
dents and that one of our major witnesses
had just confessed that his testimony was
based on a dream induced by an overdose
of LSD. We've also been accused of
planning an attack on the local FBI
office with guns loaded with red pepper,
having stolen money from our own in-
vestigative files and having threatened to
shoot one witness in the derriere with an
exotic gun propelling truth-serum darts.
I just hope they never find out about my
involvement in the Boston Brinks rob-
bery. I must admit, however, that I'm
beginning to worry about the cumulative
effect of this propaganda blitzkrieg on
potential jurors for the trial of Clay
Shaw. I don't know how long they can
withstand the drumbeat obbligato of
charges exonerating the defendant and
convicting the prosecutor. For months
now, the establishment's artillery units
have been pounding away at the two
themes NBC focused on?that my office
uses "improper methods" with regard to
witnesses and that we don't really have a
case against Mr. Shaw and he should
never be brought to trial. I hope you'll
give me the chance to answer each of
these charges in detail; but first, let me
elaborate a bit on the methods we employ
in this or any other investigation. My
office has been one of the most scrupulous
in the country with regard to the protec-
tion of individual rights. I've been on
record for years in law journals and
books as championing the rights of the
individual against the oppressive power
of the state. My office moved in and
prevented police seizure from bookstores
of books arbitrarily labeled "obscene." I
intervened and managed to persuade the
Louisiana legislature to remove a pro-
vision from its new code of criminal pro-
cedure that would allow judges to reach
out from the bench and cite newsmen for
contempt if they penned anything em-
barrassing to. the judges. My office has
investigated cases where we had already
obtained convictions; and on discovering
new evidence indicating that the defend-----w
ant was not guilty, we've obtained a
reversal of the verdict. In over five years
of office, I have never had a single case
reversed because of the use of improper
methods?a record I'll match with any
other D. A. in the country. In this par-
ticular case, I've taken unusual steps to
protect the rights of the defendant and
assure him a fair trial. Before we intro-
duced the testimony of our witnesses,
we made them undergo independent veri-
fying tests, including polygraph exami-
nation, truth serum and hypnosis. Ng
EKE eleasedaGIAhriOn5a00
unprecedented step in jurisprudence; in-
stead, the press turned around and hinted
that we had drugged our witnesses or
given them posthypnotic suggestions to
testify falsely. After arresting Mr. Shaw,
we filed a motion for a preliminary hear-
ing?a proceeding that essentially oper-
ates in the defendant's favor. Such a
hearing is generally requested by the
defense, and it was virtually unheard of
that the motion be filed by the state,
which under the law has the right to
charge a defendant outright, without any
evaluation by a judge of the pending
charges. But I felt that because of the
enormity of this accusation, we should
lean over backward and give the defend-
ant every chance. A three-judge panel
heard our evidence against Mr. Shaw and
his attorneys' rebuttals and ordered him
indicted for conspiracy to assassinate the
President. And I might add here that it's
a matter of record that my relationship
with the judiciary of our fair city is not
a Damon-Pythias camaraderie. Once the
judges had handed down their decision,
we could have immediately filed a charge
against the defendant just by signing it
and depositing it with the city clerk?the
customary method of charging a defend-
ant. Nevertheless, out of concern for
Mr. Shaw's rights, we voluntarily pre-
sented the case to a blue-ribbon grand
jury. If this grand jury had failed to in-
dict Mr. Shaw, our case would have been
dead as a doornail. But the grand jury,
composed of 12 eminent New Orleans
citizens, heard our evidence and indicted
the defendant for participation in a con-
spiracy to assassinate John Kennedy. In a
further effort to protect the rights of the
defendant, and in the face of the endless-
ly reiterated accusation that we have no
case against him?despite the unanimous
verdict of the grand jury and the judges
at the preliminary hearing?I have studi-
ously refrained from making any public
statement critical of the defendant or pre-
judging his guilt. 01' course, this puts me
at a considerable disadvantage when the
press claims I have no case, against him,
because the only way I could convince
them of the strength of my case is to
throw open our files and let them exam-
ine the testimony of all our witnesses.
Apart from the injustice such an act
ould do Mr. Shaw, it could get OUT
whole case thrown out of court on the
grounds that we had prejudiced the de-
fendant's rights by pretrial publicity. So
I won't fall into that particular trap,
whatever the provocation. I only wish
the press would allow our case to stand
or fall on its merits in court. It appears
that certain elements of the mass media
have an active interest in preventing this
case from ever coming to trial at all and
find it necessary to employ against me
every smear device in thebook. To read
toucounovionci t iga tion?
a-lim a cross
'CPYRGHT
0
64
between AlSamptizetlAttft6P
xyriiwed
ruthlessly hounding innocent Ai 1, tram-
pling their legal rights, bribing and
threatening witnesses and in general vio-
lating every canon of legal ethics. My
God, anybody who employs the kind of
methods that elements of the news media
attribute to me should not only not be a
district attorney, he should be disbarred.
This case has taught mc the difference
between image and reality, and the
power of the mythmakers. But I know
I've done everything possible to conduct
this investigation with honesty and in-
tegrity and with full respect for the civil
rights of the defendant. But a blanket
denial of charges against me isn't going
to convince anyone, 'so why don't we
consider them one by one?
PLAYBOY: All right. The May 15th issue
of Newsweek charged that two of your
investigators offered David Ferrie's fOrmer
roommate, Alvin Beauboeuf, $3000 and
an airline job if he would help sub-
stantiate your charges against Clay Shaw.
How do you answer this accusation?
GARRISON: Mr. Beauboeuf was one of
the two men who accompanied David
Ferric on a mysterious trip from New
Orleans to Texas on the day of the assas-
sination, so naturally we were interested
in him from the very start of our investi-
gation. At first he showed every willing-
ness to cooperate with our office; but after
Ferries death, somebody gave him a free
trip to Washington. From that moment
on, a change came over Bcauboeuf; he
refused to cooperate with us any further
and he made the charges against my
investigators to which you refer. Fortu-
nately, Beauboeuf had signed an affidavit
on April 12th?well after the alleged
bribe offer was supposed to have been
made?affirming that "no representative
of the New Orleans Parish district attor-
ney's office has ever asked me to do any-
thing but to tell the truth. Any inference
or statement by anyone to the contrary
has no basis in fact." As soon as his
attorney began broadcasting his charges,
we asked the New Orleans police de-
partment to thoroughly investigate the
matter. And on June 12th, the police
department?which is not, believe me,
in the pocket of the district attorney's
office?released a report concluding that
exhaustive investigation by the police in-
telligence branch had cleared my staff of
any attempt to bribe or threaten Beau-
boeuf into giving untrue testimony. There
was no mention of this report, predicta-
bly enough, in Newsweek. Let me make
one thing clear, though: Like every po-
lice department and district attorney's
office across the country, we have sums
set aside to pay informers for valuable
information?but we would never suborn
perjury. This isn't because we're saints?
short cuts like that could be awfully
tempting in a frustrating case?but be-
cause we're realistic enough to know that
any witness who can be bought by us can
forbR6166S6Y: 01,AiRpftitr55ootzt9FkofoitytOpi?EfOr4V1 prior to
it's rather naive, apart rom eing ethi- their testimony c ore tie grand jury. In
cally objectionable, to assume that our
investigators travel around the country
with bags of money trying to bribe wit-
nesses to lie on the witness stand. We just
don't operate that way.
PLAYBOY: On an NBC television special,
"The J.F.K. Conspiracy: The Case of Jim
Garrison," a former Turkish-bathhouse
operator in New Orleans, Fred Leemans,
claimed that one of your aides offered
him money to testify that Clay Shaw had
frequented his establishment with Lee
Harvey Oswald. Do you also deny this
charge?
GARRISON: Yes; and it's a perfect illus-
tration of the point I was just making
about how easy it is for the other side
to buy witnesses and then charge us
with its own misconduct. Mr. Leemans
'came to us in early May, volunteering
testimony to the effect that he had often
seen a man named Clay Bertrand in his
bathhouse, sometimes accompanied by
men he described as "Latins." In a sworn
affidavit, Leemans said he had also seen
a young man called Lee with Bertrand
on four or five occasions?a man who fits
the description of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Leemans also identified the Clay Ber-
trand who had frequented his establish-
ment as Clay Shaw. Now, this was
important testimony, and initially we
were favorably impressed with Mr. Lee-
mans. But then we started receiving calls
from him demanding money. Well, I've
told you our policy on this, and the an-
swer was a flat no. He was quiet for a
while and then he called and asked if we
would approve if he sold his story to a
magazine, since he badly needed money.
We refused to give him such approval.
Apparently, the National Broadcasting
Company was able to establish a warmer
relationship with Mr. Leemans. In any
case, he now says that he didn't really lie
to us; he just "told us what he thought
we wanted to hear." I'm sure he was
equally cooperative with NBC?although
he's beginning to spread his favors
around. When a reporter asked him
for more information after the broadcast,
Leemans refused, explaining that he was
saving himself for the Associated Press,
"since I want to make something out of
this." I would like: to make one personal
remark about Mr. Leemans. I don't
know if he was lying to us initially or not
?though I suspect from other evidence
in my possession that his statement as he
first gave it was accurate?but anybody,
no matter what his financial straits, who
tries to make a fast buck off the assassi-
nation of John Kennedy is several rungs
below the anthropoid ape on the evolu-
tionary scale.
PLAYBOY: On this same NBC show,
newsman Frank McGee claimed that
NBC investigators had discovered that
your two key witnesses against Clay
Shaw?Perry Russo and Vernon Bundy
the case of Russo, who claimed to have
attended a meeting at David Ferrie's
apartment where 4,haw, Oswald and
Ferric plotted the ' assassination, NBC
said that "Russo's answers to a series of
questions indicate, in the :language of
the polygraph operator, 'deception cri-
teria.' He was asked if he knew Clay
Shaw. He was asked if he knew Lee
Harvey Oswald. His 'yes' answer to both
of these questions indicated 'deception
criteria.' " Did Bundy and Russo fail
their lie-detector tests?
GARRISON: No, and NBC's allegations in
this area are about as credible' as its
other charges. The men who adminis-
tered both polygraph tests flatly deny
that Russo and Bundy failed the test.
I'll offer right now to make Russo's and
Bundy's polygraph tests accessible to any
reputable investigator or reporter the day
Clay Shaw's trial begins; I can't do it
before that, because I'm restrained from
releasing material pertaining to Shaw's
guilt or innocence. Just for your informa-
tion, though, the veracity of Bundy and
Russo has been affirmed not only through
polygraph tests but through hypnosis and
the administration of sodium. amytal?
truth serum. I want to make a proposi-
tion to the president of NBC: If this
charge is true, then I will resign as
district attorney of New Orleans. If it's
untrue, however, then the president of
NBC should resign. Just in case he thinks
I'm kidding, I'm ready to meet with him
at any time to select a mutually accept-
able committee to determine once and
for all the truth or falsehood of this
charge. In all fairness, however, I must
add that the fact Bundy and Russo passed
their polygraph tests is not, in and of it-
self, irrefutable proof that they were tell-
ing the truth; that's why we administered
the other tests. The lie detector isn't a
foolproof technique. A man well re-
hearsed and in complete control of him-
self can master those reactions that
would register on the polygraph as de-
ception criteria and get away with
blatant lies, while someone who is ex-
tremely nervous and anxiety-ridden could
tell the truth and have it register as a lie.
Much also depends on who administers
the test, since it can easily be rigged. For
example, Jack Ruby took a lie-detector
test for the Warren Commission and told
lie after outright lie?even little lies that
could be easily checked?and yet the
Warren Commission concluded that he
passed the test. So the polygraph is only
one weapon in the arsenal we use to
verify a witness' testimony, and we have
never considered it conclusive; we have
abundant documentation to corroborate
their stories.
PLAYBOY: Two convicts, Miguel Torres
Sanitized - Approved For Release : CIA-RDP75-00149R000300040043-1
66
CPYRG
Igpti7efk-e%pprped
and Joint an,,e ir, to B twa v ernvon
Bundy admitted having lied in his testi-
mony linking Clay Shaw to Lee Oswald.
Do you dismiss this as just another NBC
fabrication?
GARRISON: Messrs. Cancler and Torres
were both convicted by my office, as were
almost half the men in the state peni-
tentiary, and I'm sure the great majority
of them have little love for die man who
sent them up. I don't know if they
fabricated their stories in collusion with
NBC or on their own for motives of
revenge, but I'm convinced from what
I know of Vernon Bundy that his
testimony was truthful. NBC manipu-
lated the statements of Gander and
Torres to give the impression to the
viewer that he was watching a trial on
television?my trial?and that these "ob-
jective" witnesses were saying exactly
what they would say in a court of law.
Actually?and NBC scrupulously avoided
revealing this to its audience?their "tes-
timony" was not under oath, there was no
opportunity for cross-examination or the
presentation of rebuttal witnesses, and the
statements of Cancler, Torres and all the
rest of NBC's road company were edited
so that the public would hear only those
elements of their story that would dam-
age our case. The rules of evidence and
adversary procedure, I might add, have
been developed over many years precisely
to prevent this kind of phony side show.
Of course, these two convicts have been
used against my office in a variety of re-
spects. Miguel Torres also claims I offered
him a full pardon, a vacation in Florida
and an ounce of heroin if he would testi-
fy that Clay Shaw had made homosexual
overtures to him on the street. What on
earth that would have established rele-
vant to this case I still don't know, but
that's his story. I think it was actually
rather cheap of me to offer Torres only
an ounce of heroin; that wouldn't have
lasted out his vacation. A kilo would be
more like it. After all, I'm not stingy.
Torres' friend John Cancler, a burglar,
has also charged that one of my investi-
gators tried to induce him to burglarize
Clay Shaw's house and plant false evi-
dence there, but he refused because he
would not have such a heinous sin on his
conscience. I suppose that's why Cancler's
prison nickname is "John the Baptist." I
can assure you, if we ever wanted to bur-
glarize Shaw's home?which we never did
?John the Baptist would be the last man
on earth we'd pick for the job. By the way,
Mr. Cancler was called before the grand
jury and asked if he had told the truth
to NBC. He replied: "I refuse to answer
on the grounds that my answer might
incriminate me"?and was promptly
sentenced to six months in prison and
a $500 fine for contempt of court.
Sanitized - Approved
For RPIry clik-Rp7-opzignoo3000anoiti3-1
PLAYBOY: BC specialalso c anne for years and have been seen frequently
to have discovered that "Clay, or Clem, in each other's company. Andrews has
Bertrand does exist. Clem Bertrand is lied so often and about so many aspects
not his real name. It is a pseudonym of this case that the New Orleans Parish
used by a homosexual in New Orleans. grand jury has indicted him for perjury.
For his protection, we will not disclose I feel sorry for him, since he's afraid of
the real name of the man known as getting a bullet in his head, but he's
Clem Bertrand. His real name has been going to have to go to trial for perjury.
given to the Department of Justice. He is [Andrews has since been convicted.]
not Clay Shaw." Doesn't this undermine PLAYBOY: You expressed your reaction to
your entire case against Shaw? die NBC show in concrete terms on July
GARRISON: Your faith in NBC's veracity seventh, when you formally charged Wal-
is touching and indicates that the Age ter Sheridan, the network's special hives-
of Innocence is not yet over. NBC does tigator for the broadcast, with attempting
not have the real Clay Bertrand; the to bribe your witness Perry Russo. Do
man whose name NBC so melodrama ti- you really have a case against Sheridan,
cally turned over to the Justice De- or is this just a form of harassment?
partrnent is that of Eugene Davis, a New GARRISON: The reason we haven't lost a
Orleans bar owner, who has firmly de- major case in over five years in office is
nied under oath that he has ever used that we do not charge a man unless we
the name Clay, or Clem, Bertrand. We can make it stick in court. And I'm not
know from incontrovertible evidence in in the business of harassing anybody.
our possession who the real Clay Bertrand Sheridan was charged because evidence
is?and we will prove it in court. But to was brought to us indicating that he
make this whole thing a little clearer, let attempted to bribe Perry Russo by offer-
me tell you the genesis of the whole ing him free transportation to California,
"Clay Bertrand" story. A New Orleans free lodgings and a job once there, pay-
lawyer, Dean Andrews, told the Warren ment of all legal fees in any extradition
Commission that a few months before the proceedings and immunity from my
assassination of President Kennedy, Lee office. Mr. Russo has stated that Sheri-
Harvey Oswald and a group of "gay dan asked his help "to wreck the Garri-
Illexicanos" came to his office and re- son investigation" and "offered to set me
quested Andrews' aid in having Oswald's up in California, protect my job and
Marine Corps undesirable discharge guarantee that Garrison would never
changed to an honorable discharge; Os- get me extradited." According to Russo,
wald subsequently returned alone with Sheridan added that both NBC and the
other legal problems. Andrews further CIA were out to scuttle my case.
I think it's significant that the chief in-
testified that the day after President
Kennedy was assassinated, he received a vestigator for this ostensibly objective
call from Clay Bertrand, who asked broadcast starts telling people the day he
him to rush to Dallas to represent Os- arrives in town that he is going to "de-
wald. Andrews claims he subsequently saw stroy Garrison"?this at the same time
Bertrand in a New Orleans bar, but he is unctuously assuring me that NBC
Bertrand fled when Andrews approached wanted only the truth and he had an en-
him. This was intriguing testimony, al- tirely open mind on my case. Let me tell
though the Warren _Commission dis- you something about Walter Sheridan's
missed it out of hand; and in 1964, background, and maybe you'll understand
Mark Lane traveled to New Orleans his true role in all this. Sheridan was one
to speak to Andrews. He found him of the bright, hard young investigators
visibly frightened. "I'll take you to din- who entered the Justice Department un-
ner," Andrews told Lane, "but I can't der Bobby Kennedy. He was assigned to
talk about the case. I called Washington nail Jimmy Hoffa. Sheridan employed a
and they told me that if I said anything, wide variety of highly questionable tac-
I might get a bullet in the head." For the tics in the Justice Department's relentless
same reason, he has refused to cooper- drive against Hoffa; he was recently sub-
ate with my office in this investigation. poenaed to testify in connection with
The New York Times reported on Feb- charges that he wire-tapped the offices
ruary 26th that "Mr. Andrews said he of Hoffa's associates and then played
had not talked to Mr. Garrison because back incriminating tapes to them, warn-
ing that unless they testified for the Gov-
such talk might be dangerous, but
added that he believed he was being ernment, they would be destroyed along
'tailed.' " Andrews told our grand jury with Hoffa. A few years ago, Sheridan left
that he could not say Clay Shaw was the Justice Department?officially, at least
?and went to work for NBC. No honest
Clay Bertrand and he could not say he
wasn't. But the day after NBC's special, reporter out for a story would have so
Andrews broke his silence and said, yes, completely prejudged the situation and
Clay Shaw is not Clem Bertrand and been willing to employ such tactics. I
identified the real Clay Bertrand as think it's likely that in his zeal to destroy
Eugene Davis. The only trouble is, An- my case, he exceeded the authority
crewrs tt iDeaavii eh arerAwik 0 fr4?tftldiiio 5bijeabtotel es in New
68
'CPYRGHT
York. I get t AM A& di MIJIJI UV
at
majori-
ty of NBC executives probably thought
Sheridan's team came down here in an
uncompromising search for the truth.
When Sheridan overstepped himself and
it became obvious that the broadcast was,
to say the least, not objective, NBC real-
ized it was in a touchy position. Cooler
heads prevailed and I was allowed to pre-
sent our case to the American people. For
that, at least, I'm singularly grateful to
Walter Sheridan.
PLAYBOY: How do you respond to the
charge of your critics?including NBC
?that you launched this probe for politi-
cal reasons, hoping the attendant pub-
licity would be a springboard top. Senate
scat or to the governorship?
GARRISON: I'd have to be a terribly cyni-
cal and corrupt man to place another
human being on trial for conspiracy to
murder the President of the United
States just to gratify my political ambi-
tion. But I guess there are a lot of people
around the country, especially after
NBC's attack, who think that's just the
kind of man I am. That rather saddens
me. I'm no Albert Schweitzer, but I
could never do a thing like that. I derive
no pleasure from prosecuting a man,
even though I know he's guilty; do you
think I could sleep at night or look at
myself in the mirror in the morning if I
hounded an innocent man? You know, I
always received much more satisfaction
as a defense attorney in obtaining an ac-
quittal for a client than I ever have as a
D. A. in obtaining a conviction. All my
interests and sympathies tend to be on
the side of the individual as opposed to
the state. So this is really the worst
charge that anyone could make against
me?that in order to get my name in the
paper, or to advance politically, I would
destroy another human being. This kind
of charge reveals a good deal about the
personality of the people who make it; to
impute such motives to another man is to
imply you're harboring them yourself.
But to look at a different aspect of your
question, I'm inclined to challenge the
whole premise that launching an investi-
gation like this holds any political advan-
tages for me. A politically ambitious man
would hardly be likely to Challenge the
massed power of the Federal Govern-
ment and criticize so many honorable
figures and distinguished agencies. Actu-
ally, this charge is an argument in favor
of my investigation: Would such a slimy
type, eager to profiteer on the assassina-
tion, jeopardize his political ambitions if
he didn't have an ironclad case? If I were
really the ambitious monster they paint
me, why would I climb out on such a
limb and then saw it off? Unless he had
the facts, it would be the last thing a
politically ambitious man would do. I
was perfectly aware that I might have
signed my political death warrant the
moment I saffitpiettfl
Allpittved
couYdn rY %Vas lo cnse
some light on John Kennedy's assassina-
tion. As a matter of fact, after this last
murderous year, I find myself thinking
more and more about returning to private
life and having time to read again, to
get out in die sun and hit a golf ball.
But before I do that, I'm going to break
this case and let the public know the
truth. I won't quit before that day. I
wouldn't give the bastards the satisfaction.
PLAYBOY: According to your own former
chief investigator, William Gurvich, the
truth about the assassination has al-
ready been published in the Warren Re-
port. After leaving your staff last June,
he announced, "If there is any truth
to any of Garrison's charges about there
being a conspiracy, I haven't been able
to find it." When members of your own
staff have no faith in your case, how, do
you expect the public to be impressed?
GARRISON: First of all, I won't deny for
a minute that for at least three months I
trusted Bill Gurvich implicitly. He was
never my "chief investigator"?that's his
own terminology?because there was no
such position on my staff while he worked
for me. But two days before Christmas
1966, Gurvich, who operates a private
detective agency, visited my office and told
me he'd heard of my investigation and
thought I was doing a wonderful job. He
presented me with a beautiful color-TV
set and asked if he could be of use in any
capacity. Well, right then and there, I
should have sat back and asked myself a
few searching questions?like how he had
heard of my probe in the first place, since
only the people we were questioning and
a few of my staff, as far as I knew, were
aware of what was going on at that time.
We had been under way for only five
weeks, remember. And I should also
have recalled the old adage about
Greeks bearing gifts. But I was desper-
ately understaffed?I had only six aides
available to work on the assassination
inquiry full time?and here comes a
trained private investigator offering his
services free of charge. It was like a gift
from the gods. So I set Gurvich to work;
and for the next couple of months, he
did an adequate job of talking to wit-
nesses, taking photographs, etc. But then,
around March, I learned that he had
been seeing Walter Sheridan of NBC.
Well, this didn't bother me at first, be-
cause I didn't know then the role Sheri-
dan was playing in this whole affair. But
after word got back to me from my wit-
nesses about Sheridan's threats and har-
assment, I began keeping a closer eye on
Bill. I still didn't really think he was any
kind of a double agent, but I couldn't
help wondering why he was rubbing
elbows with people like that. Now, don't
forget that Gurvich claims he became
totally disgusted with our investigation
at the time of Clay Shaw's arrest?
PQAPPROWslout every
aspect of our case, and I have a dozen
witnesses who will testify to that effect.
I guess this was something that should
have tipped me off about Bill: He was
always enthusiastic, never doubtful or
cautionary, even when I or one of my
staff threw out a hypothesis that on
reflection we realized was wrong. And I
began to notice how lie would pick my
mind for every scrap of fact pertaining to
the case. So I grew ;suspicious and took
him oft the sensitivc.areas of the investi-
gation 'and relegated him to chauffeuring
and routine clerical duties. ,This seemed
to really bother him, and -every day he
would come into my office and pump me
for information, complaining that he
wasn't being told enough about the case.
I sill had nothing concrete against him
and I didn't want to be unjust, but I
guess my manner must have cooled
perceptibly, because one day about two
months before he surfaced in Washing-
ton, Bill just vanished from our. sight.
And with him, I'm sorry to confess, van-
ished a copy of our master file. How do
you explain such behavior? It's possible
that Bill joined us initially for reasons
of opportunism, seeing a chance to get
in at the beginning of an earth-shaking
case, and subsequently chickened out
when he saw the implacable determina-
tion of some powerful agencies to destroy
our investigation and discredit everyone
associated with it. But I really don't be-
lieve Bill is that much of a coward. It's
also possible that those who want to
prevent an investigation learned early
what we were doing and made a decision
to plant somebody on the inside of the
investigation. Let me stress that I have no
secret documents or monitored telephone
calls to support this hypothesis; it just
seems to me the most logical explanation
for Bill's behavior. Let me put it this
way: If you were in charge of the CIA
and willing to spend scores of millions of
dollars on such relatively penny-ante
projects as infiltrating the National Stu-
dents Association, wouldn't you make an
effort to infiltrate an investigation that
could seriously damage the prestige of
your agency?
PLAYBOY: How could your probe dam-
age the prestige of the CIA and cause
them to take countermeasures against
GyAoI?
RTRISON: For the simple reason that a
number of the men who killed the Presi-
dent were former employees of the CIA
involved in its anti-Castro underground
activities in and around New Orleans.
The CIA knows their identity. So do l?
and our investigation has established this
without the shadow of a doubt. Let me
stress one thing, however: We have no
evidence that any official of the CIA was
involved with the conspiracy that led to
the President's death.
PLAYBOY: Do you lend no credence, then,
FoiaReireisen:fictivREPT5Qoolt491Rotemob4cielt3-fIA agent,
70
'CPYRGUT
conspiracy
Kennedy?
GARRISON: I've become familiar with the
asc of Gary Underhill, and I've been
tble to ascertain that he was not the
type of man to make wild or unsub-
stantiated charges. Underhill was an in-
telligence agent in World War Two and
an expert on military affairs whom the
Pentagon considered one of the country's
op authorities on limited warfare. He
was on good personal terms with the top
brass in the Defense Department and
he ranking officials in the CIA. He
wasn't a full-time CIA agent, but he
occasionally performed "special assign-
ments" for the Agency. Several days
after the President's assassination, Under-
hill at the home of friends in
New Jersey, apparently badly shaken,
and charged that Kennedy was killed by
a small group within the CIA. He told
friends he believed his own life was in
'anger. We can't learn any more from
Underhill, I'm afraid, because shortly
afterward, he was found shot to death in
his Washington apartment. The coroner
ruled suicide, but he had been shot be-
hind the left car and the pistol was found
under his left side?and Underhill was
right-handed.
PLAYBOY: Do you believe Underhill was
murdered to silence him?
GARRISON: I don't believe it and I don't
lisbelieve it. All I know is that witnesses
with vital evidence in this case are cer-
tainly bad insurance risks. In the absence
f further and much more conclusive evi-
dence to the contrary, however, we must
assume that the plotters were acting on
heir own rather than on CIA orders
when they killed the President. As far as
we have been able to determine, they
were not in the pay of the CIA at the time
of the assassination?and this is one of
he reasons the President was murdered;
'11 explain later what I mean by that. But
he CIA could not face up to the Ameri-
can people and admit that its former em-
ployees had conspired to assassinate the
President; so from the moment Kenne-
dy's heart stopped beating, the Agency
it tempted to sweep the whole conspir-
cy under the rug. The CIA has spared
wither time nor the taxpayers' money
n its efforts to hide the truth about the
ssassination from the American people.
In this respect, it has become an accessory
fter the fact in the assassination.
PLAYBOY: Do you have any conclusive
evidence to support these accusations?
GARRISON: I've never revealed this be-
ore, but for at least six months, my office
nd home telephones?and those of every
member of my staff?have been moni-
ored. If there is as little substance to this
investigation as the press and the Govern-
ment allege, why would anyone go to all
that trouble? I leave it to your judgment . Garrett
h1
9-
.t
z, pprovcdF9rfFIflj
Ririftstliarnilrelm
71k-? ?4911119139b1 ichq9 PRP
exvlanation
within the CIA to assassinate ance Union or the New Orleans Chamber or identification in the 26 volumes of the
Warren Report. There's a significant story
behind Exhibit number 237. Throughout
the late summer and fall of 1963, Lee
Oswald was shepherded in Dallas and
New Orleans by a CIA "baby sitter" who
watched over Oswald's activities and
stayed with him. My office knows who he
is and what he looks like.
PLAYBOY: Are you implying that Oswald
was working for the CIA?
GARRISON: Let me finish and you can
decide for yourself. When Oswald went
to Mexico City in an effort to obtain a
visa for travel to Cuba, this CIA agent
accompanied him. Now, at this partic-
ular time, Mexico was the only Latin-
American nation maintaining diplomatic
tics with Cuba, and leftists and Commu-
nists from all over the hemisphere traveled
to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City for
visas to Cuba. The CIA, quite properly,
had placed a hidden movie camera in a
building across the street from the em-
bassy and filmed everyone coming and
going. The Warren Commission, knowing
this, had an assistant legal counsel ask the
FBI for a picture of Oswald and his com-
panion on the steps of the embassy, and
the FBI, in turn, filed an affidavit saying
they had obtained the photo in question
from the CIA. The only trouble is that
the CIA supplied the Warren Commission
with a phony photograph. The photo-
graph of an "unidentified man" pub-
lished in the 26 volumes is not the man
who was filmed with Oswald on the steps
of the Cuban Embassy, as alleged by the
CIA. It's perfectly clear that the actual
picture of Oswald and his companion
was suppressed and a fake photo sub-
stituted because ? the second man in the
picture was working for the CIA in
1963, and his identification as a CIA
agent would have opened up a whole
can of worms about Oswald's ties with
the Agency. To prevent this, the CIA
presented the Warren Commission with
fraudulent evidence?a pattern that re-
peats itself whenever the CIA submits
evidence relating to Oswald's possible
connection with any U. S. intelligence
agency. The CIA lied to the Commission
right clown the line; and since the War-
ren Commission had no investigative
staff of its own but had to rely on
the FBI, the Secret Service and the CIA
for its evidence, it's understandable why
the Commission concluded that Oswald
had no ties with American intelligence
agencies.
PLAYBOY: What was the nature of these
ties?
GARRISON: That's not altogether clear,
at least insofar as his specific assign-
ments are concerned; but we do have
by the
of Commerce.
PLAYBOY: That's
deuce.
GARRISON: I'd need a book to list all the
indications. But let's start with the fact
that most of the attorneys for the hostile
witnesses and defendants were hired by
the CIA?through one or another of its
covers. For example, a New Orleans
lawyer representing Alvin Beauboeuf,
who has charged me with every kind of
unethical practice except child molesting
?I expect that allegation to come shortly
before Shaw's trial?flew with Beauboeuf
to Washington immediately after my
office subpoenaed him, where Beauboeuf
was questioned by a "retired" intelligence
officer in the offices? of the Justice De-
partment. This trip was paid for, as are
the lawyer's legal fees, by the CIA?in
) other words, with our tax dollars. Another
lawyer, Stephen Plotkin, who represents
Gordon Novel [another of Garrison's key
witnesses], has admitted he is paid by the
CIA?and has also admitted his client
I is a CIA agent; you may have seen that
story on page 96 of The New York
Times, next to ship departures. Plotkin,
incidentally, sued me for $10,000,000
for defaming his client and sued a group
of New Orleans businessmen financing
my investigation fo'r $50,000,000?which
meant, in effect, that the CIA was suing
us. As if they need the money. But my
attorney filed a motion for a deposition
to be taken from Novel, which meant that
he would have to return to my juris-
diction to file his suit and thus be liable
for questioning in the conspiracy case.
Rather than come down to New Orleans
and face the music, Newel dropped his
suit and sacrificed a possible $60,000,000
judgment. Now, there's a man of prin-
ciple; he knows there are some things
more important than money.
PLAYBOY: Do you also believe Clay Shaw's
lawyers are being paid by the CIA?
GARRISON: I can't comment directly on
that, since it relates to Shaw's trial. But
I think the clincher, as far as Washing-
ton's obstruction of our probe goes, is the
consistent refusal of the Federal Govern-
ment to make accessible to us any in-
formation about the roles of the CIA,
anti-Castro Cuban exiles and the para-
military right in the assassination. There
is, without doubt, a conspiracy by ele-
ments of the Federal Government to keep
the facts of this case from ever becoming
known?a conspiracy that is the logical
extension of the initial conspiracy by the
CIA to conceal vital evidence from the
Warren Commission.
PLAYBOY: What "vital evidence" did the
CIA withhold from the Warren Com-
mission?
GARRISON: A good example is Commis-
sion Exhibit number 237. This is a
hardly conclusive evi-
f the monigkigiftze o th
ut phones is e photograph of a stocky bald
- Approve cr For Release : CIA kbiBiqe--0011
(6416b Aw61616
CPYRG
o was mysteriously schooled in Russian
and allowed to subscribe to Pravda. And
shortly before his trip to the Soviet
04 Union, we have learned, Oswald was
trained as an intelligence agent at the
CIA installation at Japan's Atsugi Air
Force Base?which may explain why no
01 disciplinary action was taken against him
when he returned to the U.S. from
the Soviet Union, even though he had
supposedly defected with top-secret in-
formation about our radar networks.
The money he used to return to the U.S.,
incidentally, was advanced to him by the
State Department.
PLAYBOY: In an article for Ramparts,
ex?FBI agent William Turner indicated
that White Russian refugee George De
Mohrenschildt may have been Oswald's
CIA "baby sitter" in Dallas. Have you
found any links between the CIA and
De Mohrenschildt?
GARRISON: I can't comment directly on
that, but George De Mohrenschildt is cer-
tainly an enigmatic and intriguing char-
acter. Here you have a wealthy, cultured
White Russian emigrd who travels in
the highest social circles?he was a per-
sonal friend of Mrs. Hugh Auchindoss,
Jackie Kennedy's mother?suddenly de-
veloping an intimate relationship with
an impoverished ex-Marine like Lee Os-
wald. What did they discuss?last year's
season at Biarritz, or how to beat the bank
at Monte Carlo? And Mr. De Mohren-
schildt has a penchant for popping up in
the most interesting places at the most
interesting times?for example, in Haiti
just before a joint Cuban exile?CIA ven-
ture to topple Duvalier and use the island
as a springboard for an invasion of Cuba;
and in Guatemala, another CIA training
ground, the day before the Bay of Pigs
invasion. We have a good deal more in-
formation about Oswald's CIA contacts
in Dallas and New Orleans?most of
which we discovered by sheer chance?
but there are still whole areas of inquiry
blocked from us by the CIA's refusal to
cooperate with our investigation. For
public consumption, the CIA claims-not
to have been concerned with Oswald
prior to the assassination. But one thing
is certain: Despite these pious protesta-
tions, the CIA was very much aware
of Oswald's activities well before the
President's murder. In a notarized affi-
davit, State Department officer James D.
Crowley states, "The first time I re-
member learning of Oswald's existence
was when I received copies of a tele-
graphic message from the Central In-
telligence Agency dated October 10, 1963,
which contained information pertaining
to his current activities." It would cer-
tainly be interesting to know what the
CIA knew about Oswald six weeks be-
fore the assassination, but the contents
of this particular message never reached
the Warren Commission and remain a
72 complete mystery. There are also 51 on Oswald's activities in Russia that had faith in thP opnrt 2,9?,,jed
Sanitized - Approved For Release : CIA-RDP75-00149R000300040043-1
c ?as
the National Archives pertaining to Lee
Oswald and Jack Ruby. Technically, the
members of the Commission had access
to them; but in practice, any document
the CIA wanted classified was shunted
into the Archives without examination
by the sleeping beauties on the Commis-
sion. Twenty-nine of these files are of
particular interest, because their titles
alone indicate that the CIA had exten-
sive information on Oswald and Ruby
before the assassination. A few of these
documents arc: CD 347, "Activity of Os-
wald in Mexico City"; CD 1054, "Infor-
mation on Jack Ruby and Associates";
CD 692, "Reproduction of Official CIA,
Dossier on Oswald"; CD 1551, "Conver-
sations Between Cuban President and
Ambassador"; CD 698, "Reports of Trav-
el and Activities of Oswald"; CD 943,
"Allegations of Pfc. Eugene Dinkin re
Assassination Plot"; and CD 971, "Tele-
phone Calls to U. S. Embassy, Canberra,
Australia, re Planned Assassination."
The titles of these documents are all we
have to go on, but they're certainly intri-
guing. For example, the public has heard
nothing about phone calls to the U. S.
Embassy is Canberra, warning in ad-
vance of the assassination, nor have we
been told anything about a Pfc. Dinkin
who claims to have knowledge of an as-
sassination plot. One of the top-secret
files that most intrigues me is CD 931,
which is entitled "Oswald's Access to In-
formation About the U-2." I have 24 years
of military experience behind me, on ac-
tive duty and in the reserves, and I've
never had any access to the U-2; in fact,
I've .never seen one. But apparently this
"self-proclaimed Marxist," Lee Harvey
Oswald, who we're assured had no ties to
any Government agency, had access to in-
formation about the nation's most secret
high-altitude reconnaissance plane. Of
course, it may be that none of these CIA
files reveals anything sinister about Lee
Harvey Oswald or hints in any way that
he was employed by our Government.
But then, why are the 51 CIA documents
classified top secret in the Archives and
inaccessible to the public for 75 years? I'm
45, so there's no hope for me, but I'm al-
ready training my eight-year-old son to
keep himself physically fit so that on one
glorious September morn in 2038 he can
walk into the National Archives in
Washington and find out what the CIA
knew about Lee Harvey Oswald. If
there's a further extension of the top-
secret classification, this may become a
generational affair, with questions passed
down from father to son in the manner
of the ancient runic bards. But some-
day, perhaps, we'll find out what Oswald
was doing messing around with the U-2.
Of course, there are some CIA documents
we'll never see. When the Warren Com-
mission asked to see a secret CIA memo
epartment
letter on Oswald's Russian stay, word
came back that the Agency was terribly
sorry, but the secret memo had been de-
stroyed while being photocopied. This
unfortunate accident took place on No-
vember 23, 1963, a day on which there
must have occurred a great deal of spo'n-
taneous combustion around Washington.
PLAYBOY: John A. McCone, former di-
rector of the Central Intelligence Agen-
cy, has said of Oswald: "The Agency
never contacted him, interviewed him,
talked with him or received or solicited
any reports or information from him or
communicated with him in any manner.
Lee Harvey Oswald was never asso-.
dated or connected directly or indirectly,
in any way whatsoever, with the Agency."
Why do you refuse to accept McCone's
word?
GARRISON: The head of the CIA, it seems
to me, would think long and hard before
he admitted that former employees of his
had been involved in the murder of the
President of the United States?even if
they weren't acting on behalf of the
Agency when they did it. In any case,
the CIA's past record hardly induces
faith in the Agency's veracity. CIA
officials lied about their role in the over-
throw of the Arbenz Guzman regime in
Guatemala; they lied about their role in
the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran;
they lied about their role in the abortive
/ military revolt against Sukarno in 1958;
they lied about the U-2 incident; and
they certainly lied about the Bay of Pigs.
If the CIA is ready to lie even about its
successes?as in Guatemala and Iran?
do you seriously believe its director
would tell the truth in a case as explosive
as this? Of course, CIA officials grow so
used to lying, so steeped in deceit, that
after a while I think they really become
incapable of distinguishing truth and
falsehood. Or, in an Orwellian sense,
perhaps they come to believe that truth
is what contributes to national security,
and falsehood is anything detrimental to
national security. John McCone would
swear he's a Croatian dwarf if he
thought it would advance the interests of
the CIA?which he automatically equates
with the national interest.
PLAYBOY: Let's get down to the facts of
the assassination, as you see them. When
?and why?did you begin to doubt the
conclusions of the Warren Report?
GARRISON: Until as recently as Novem-
ber of 1966, I had complete faith in the
Warren Report. As a matter of fact, I
viewed its most vocal critics with the
same skepticism that much of the press
now views me?which is why I can't con-
demn the mass media too harshly for their
cynical approach, except in the handful
of cases where newsmen seem to be in
active collusion with Washington to tor-
pedo our investigation. Of course, my
74
CPYRr44----ouTnitized - Approved For Release : CIA-RDP75-00149R000300040043-1
ignorance, since I had never read it; as
Mark Lane says, "The only way you can
believe the Report is not to have read it."
But then, in November, I visited New
York City with Senator Russell Long;
and when the subject of the assassination
came up, he expressed grave doubts about
the Warren Commission's conclusion that
Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin.
Now, this disturbed me, because here was
the Majority Whip of the U. S. Senate
speaking, not some publicity hound with
an ideological ax to grind; and if at this
late juncture he still entertained serious
reservations about the Commission's de-
terminations, maybe there was more to
the assassination than met the eye. So I
began reading every book and magazine
article on the assassination I could get my
hands on?my tombstone may be in-
scribed "CURIOSITY KILLED THE D. A."-
and I found my own doubts growing.
Finally, I put aside all other business
and started to wade through the Warren
Commission's own 26 volumes of sup-
portive evidence and testimony. That
was the clincher. It's impossible for any-
one possessed of reasonable objectivity
and a fair degree of intelligence to read
those 26 volumes and not reach the
conclusion that the Warren Commission
was wrong in every one of its major con-
clusions pertaining to the assassination.
For me, that was the end of innocence.
PLAYBOY: Do you mean to imply that the
Warren Commission deliberately con-
cealed or falsified the facts of the
assassination?
GARRISON: No, you don't need any ex-
planation more sinister than incompe-
tence to account for the Warren Report.
Though I didn't know it at the time,
the Commission simply didn't have all
the facts, and many of those they had
were fraudulent, as I've pointed out?
thanks to the evidence withheld and man-
ufactured by the CIA. If you add to this
the fact that most of the Commission
members had already presumed Oswald's'
guilt and were merely looking for facts to
confirm it?and in the process tranquilize
the American public?you'll realize why
the Commission was such a dismal failure.
But in the final analysis, it doesn't make
a damn bit of difference whether the
Commission members were sincere pa-
triots or mountebanks; the question is
whether Lee Oswald killed the President
alone and unaided; if the evidence
doesn't support that conclusion?and it
doesn't?a thousand honorable men sit-
ting shoulder to shoulder along the banks
of the Potomac won't change the facts.
PLAYBOY: So you began your investiga-
tion of the President's assassination on
nothing stronger than your own doubts
and the theories of the Commission's
critics?
GARRISON: No, please don't put words
in my mouth. The works of the critics?
particula4a ridtized EpApp raved For EteleasteFze 7sEd-00149R000300Q40/04 in page 156)
Weisberg and Mark Lane?sparked my
general doubts about the assassination;
but more importantly, they led me into
specific areas of inquiry. After I realized
that something was seriously wrong, I
had no alternative but to face the fact
that Oswald had arrived in Dallas only a
short time before the assassination and
that prior to that time he had lived in
New Orleans for over six months. I be-
came curious about what this alleged
assassin was doing while under my juris-
diction, and my staff began an investiga-
tion of Oswald's activities and contacts
in the New Orleans area. We inter-
viewed people the 'Warren Commission
had never questioned, and a whole new
world began opening up. As I studied
Oswald's movements in Dallas, my mind
turned back to the aftermath of the as-
sassination in 1963, when my office ques-
tioned three men?David Ferric, Alvin
Beauboeuf and Melvin Coffey?on sus-
picion of being involved in the assassi-
nation. I began to wonder if we hadn't
dismissed these three men too lightly,
and we reopened our investigation into
their activities.
PLAYBOY: Why did you become interested
in Ferric and his associates in November
1963?
GARRISON: To explain that, I'll havec6
tell you something about the operation
of our office. I believe we have one of
the best district attorney's offices in the
country. We have no political appoint-
ments and, as a result, there's a tremen-
dous amount of esprit among our staff
and an enthusiasm for looking into unan-
swered questions. That's why we got
together the day after the assassination
and began examining our files and
checking out every political extremist,
religious fanatic ilnd kook who had ever
come to our attention. And one of the
names that sprang into prominence was
that of David Ferric. When we checked
him out, as we were doing with innu-
merable other suspicious characters, we
discovered that on November 22nd he
had traveled to Texas to go "duck hunt-
ing" and "ice skating." Well, naturally,
this sparked our interest. We staked out
his house and we questioned his friends,
and when he came back?the first thing
he did on his return, incidentally, was to
contact a lawyer and then hide out for
the night at a friend's room in another
town?we pulled him and his two com-
panions in for questioning. The story of
Ferric's activities that emerged was rather
curious. He drove nine hours through a
furious thunderstorm to Texas, then ap-
parently gave up his plans to go duck
hunting and instead went to an ice-
skating rink in Houston and stood wait-
ing beside a pay telephone for two hours;
he never put the skates on. We felt his
movements were suspicious enough to
justify his arrest and that of his friends,
terest and asked us to turn the three men
over to them for questioning. We did,
but Ferric was released soon afterward
and most of its report on him was clas-
sified top secret and secreted in the Na-
tional Archives, where it will remain
inaccessible to the public until Septem-
be 2038 A. D. No one, including me, can
see those pages.
PLAYBOY: Why do you believe the FBI
report on Ferrie is classified?
GARRISON: For the same reason the Presi-
dent's autopsy X rays and photos and
other vital evidence in this case are clas-
sified?because they would indicate the
existence of a conspiracy, involving
former employees of the CIA, to kill the
President.
PLAYBOY: When you resumed your in-
vestigation of Ferric three years later,
did you discover any new evidence?
GARRISON: We discovered a whole mare's-
nest of underground activity involving
the CIA, elements of the paramilitary
right and militant anti-Castro exile
groups. We discovered links between
David Ferrie, Lee Oswald and Jack
Ruby. We discovered, in short, what
I had hoped not to find, despite my
doubts about the Warren Commission?
the existence of a well-organized con-
spiracy to assassinate John Kennedy, a
conspiracy that came to fruition in Dal-
las on November 22, 1963, and in which
David Ferric played a vital role.
PLAYBOY: Accepting for a moment your
contention that there was a conspiracy to
assassinate President Kennedy, have you
been able to discover who was involved
?in addition to Ferric?how it was
done and why?
GARRISON: Yes, 4have. President Ken-
nedy was killed for one reason: because
he was working for a reconciliation with
the U.S.S.R. and Castio's Cuba. His
assassins were a group of fanatic anti-
Communists with a fusion of interests
in preventing Kennedy from achieving
peaceful relations with the Commu-
nist world. On the operative level of the
conspiracy, you find anti-Castro Cuban
exiles who never forgave Kennedy for
failing to send in U. S. air cover at the
Bay of Pigs and who feared. that the
thaw following the Missile Crisis in Octo-
ber 1962 augured the total frustration of
their plans to liberate Cuba. They be-
lieved sincerely that Kennedy had sold
them out to the Communists. On a high-
er, control level, you find a number of
people of ultra-right-wing persuasion?
not simply conservatives, mind you, but
people who could be described as neo-
Nazi, including a small clique that had
defected from the Minutemen because
it considered the group "too liberal."
These elements had their canteens ready
and their guns loaded; they lacked only
a target. After Kennedy's domestic
and we took them into custod . When moves toward racial intertion and his
PLAYBOY INTERVIEW
CPYRGHT (continued from page 7-1)
ttempts to forge a peaceful foreign poll-
as exemplified by his signing of the
Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, they found that
t trget. So both of these groups had a vital
sake in changing U.S. foreign policy?
i lcological on the part of the pant-
rilitary rightists and both ideological
nd personal with the anti-Castro exiles,
tally of whom felt they would never see
heir homes again if Kennedy's policy of
t!dtente was allowed to succeed. The
-IA was involved with both of these
groups. In the New Orleans area, where
he conspiracy was hatched, the CIA
was training a mixed bag of Minutemen,
'Alban exiles and other anti-Castro ad-
-enturcrs north of Lake Pontchartrain
or a foray into Cuba and an assassina-
ion attempt on Fidel Castro. David Fer-
-ie, who operated on the "command'
evel of the ultra-rightists, was deepl)
nvolved in this effort. The CIA itself
.Ipparently did not take the detente
no seriously until the late summer of
963, because it maintained its financing
ind training of anti-Castro adventurers.
There was, in fact, a triangulation of
:3A-supported anti-Castro activity be-
ween Dallas?where Jack Ruby was
nvolved in collecting guns and am-
nunition for the underground?and Mi.
tmi and New Orleans, where most of the
training was going on. But then, Kenne-
Jy, who had signed a secret agreement
vith Khruslichev after the Missile Crisis
pledging not to invade Cuba if Russit
would soft-pedal Castro's subversive ac-
tivities in the Americas, began to crad
:town on CIA operations against Cuba
As a result, on July 31, 1963, the FBI
raided the headquarters of the group o
Cuban exiles and Alinutemen training
north of Lake Pontchartrain and con
fiscated all their guns and ammunitiol
?despite the fact that the operation hac
the sanction of the CIA. This action ma)
have sealed Kennedy's fate. By the earl)
fall of 1963, Kennedy's plan for a de
tente with Cuba was in high gear
Ambassador William Atwood, a close
personal friend of the late President
recounts that a thaw in U.S.-Cuban refit
tions was definitely in the works at tin;
time and "the President more than the.
State Department was interested in ex-
ploring the [Cuban] overture." One o
the intermediaries between Castro and
Kennedy was the late television comr
mentator Lisa Howard, who met secretl
with Ernesto Che Guevara to prepare
peace terms between the U. S. and Cap-
tro. Miss Howard was arranging a con-
ference between Bobby Kennedy :am_
Guevara when the President was shot iu
Dallas. In a United Nations speech ou
October 7, 1963, Adlai Stevenson se.
forth thigossibilit of :a termination
5- NIA
OCL40043AntrieF,
15
CPYRGHT
Sanitized - Approved For Release : CIA-RDP75-00149R000300040043-1
aware of what awaits them if convicted,
will be so effectively deterred that the
crime of rape will be reduced almost to
extinction.
(Name withheld by request)
New York, New York
Psychiatrists reject this proposal be-
cause rape is the act of a sadist, not of a
nmmal man ?Vial an excess of sexual
energy. What needs to be changed is his
mental attitude, not his ability to have all
erection: the average rapist is a man who
will walk past a house of prostitution, or
leave a loving wife at home, to force
himself on a frightened and unwilling
victim. because the creation of terror and
the use of violence are the real gratifica-
tions that he seeks.
Clinical evidence shows that castra-
tion is 100-percent effective in reducing
erectile potency only if performed before
puberty. ll'hen the operation is per-
formed on adults, their ability to have an
erection frequently will not wane for
some time, often not for years. Whether
or not the castrated rapist retains his
potency, the desired results are seldom
achieved: If he is made impotent, he
often shifts to nonsexual and therefore
more bizarre forms of assault; if he re-
mains potent, he becomes more vicious
out of a desire for revenge against so-
ciety. These conclusions have emerged
from several attempts in various nations
to employ this dubious "remedy," begin-
ning as early as 1889.
To assume, finally, that castration
would serve as a deterrent is to assume
that the rapist has a rational mind. Many
rapists act in what psychiatrists call a.
fugue state?scarcely aware of what
they are doing, much less of what the
consequences of their behavior will be.
Cruel and unUSZIO1 punishments will 770
71/ OIC stop them than will eloqztent
preachments. "Rape will be reduced al-
most to extinction" only when a truly
rational society is evolved, in which
children's sexual attitudes are not dis-
torted. Meanwhile, the only 11117171177C way
society can protect itself from the rapist
is to con fine him, and the only humane
cure society has devised for the rapist?
in perfect as it may be?is psychotherapy.
"The Playboy Forum" offers the oppor-
tunity for an extended dialog between
readers and editors of this publication
on subjects and issues raised in Hugh
M. Hefner's continuing editorial series,
"The Playboy Philosophy." Four booklet
reprints of "The Playboy Philosophy,"
including installments 1-7, 8-12, 13-18
and 19-22, are available at 50? per book-
let. Address all correspondence on both
"Philosophy" and "Forum" to: The
Playboy Forum, Playboy Building, 919 N.
Michigan Ave., Chicago, Illinois 60611.
El
f1c/k.e...5
oftl",
drhasfily
cjadts
filayde,
)7Jontrn
"Wonderful news, Peter! There's going
Sanitizem bApprpmeldrEcantRelease : CIA-RDP7
.1.
nf
IS
.1-
1C
It
-is
ia
c-
?a.
of
ig
11-
)11
;id
ay
tr.
DSC
It,
La-
he
of
nd
.111-
tly
;ire
nd
ill
gm-
oil
set
of
-ics,
Sanitized - Approved For Release : CIA-RDP75-00149R000300040043-1
CPYRGHT
intt On ;November 19th, Presidential aide
McGeorge Bundy, who was acting as an
intermediary in the secret discussions,
told Ambassador Attwood that the Presi-
dent wanted to discuss his plans for a
Cuban-American (1(1 ('tile in depth with
him right after "a brief trip to Dallas."
The rest is history. One of the two heads
of state involved in negotiating that dr:-
!role is now dead, but the survivor, Fi-
del Castro, said on November 23rd that
the assassination was the work of "de-
ments in the U.S. opposed to peace,"
and the Cuban Foreign Ministry official-
ly charged that "the Kennedy assassina-
tion was a provocation against world
peace perfectly and minutely prepared
by the most reactionary sectors of the
United States." Most Americans at the
time, myself included, thought this was
just Communist propaganda. But Castro
knew what he was talking about. A few
weeks after the assassination, the Cuban
ambassador to the UN, Dr. Carlos Le-
chuga, was instructed by Castro to
begin "formal discussions" in the hope
that Kennedy's peace plan would be car-
ried on by his successor. Ambassador
:.Attwood writes that "I informed Bundy
and later was told that the Cuban exer-
cise would be put on ice for a while?
which it was and where it has been ever
since." The assassins had achieved their
aim.
PLAYBOY: This is interesting speculation,
but isn't that all it is?speculation?
GARRISON: No, because we know enough
about the key individuals involved in the
conspiracy?Latins and Americans alike
?to know that this. was their motive for
the murder of John Kennedy. First of all,
you have to understand the mentality of
these people. Take the Cuban exiles in-
volved; here are men, some of whom sur-
vived the Bay of Pigs, who for years had
been whipped up by the CIA into a
frenzy of anti-Castro hatred and who had
been solemnly assured by American in-
telligence agencies that they were going
to liberate their homeland with American
support. They had one disappointment
after another?the Bay of Pigs debacle,
the failure to invade Cuba during the
Missile Crisis, the effective crushing of
their underground in Cuba by Castro's
secret. police. But they kept on hoping,
and the CIA kept fanning their hopes.
Then they listened to Kennedy's famous
speech at American University on June
10, 1963, where he really kicked off the
new drive for a detente, and they heard
the President of the country in which
they'd placed all their hope saying we
must make peace with the Communists,
since "we both breathe the same air."
Well, this worries them, but the CIA con-
tinues financing and training their under-
ground cadres, so there is still hope. And
then suddenly, in the late summer of
1963, the CIASabitited P-nAtlyptclIv
pressure to withdraw all funds and
vv.
d an
A well played round? Now you deserve something special?
and you've got it. A mild tasting A&C cigar. In light or
dark wrappers, A&C's unique blend of fine imported and
choice domestic tobaccos gives you real flavor?and
flavor's the reason A&C sales are really soaring these days.
Get behind an A&C Grenadier (shown actual size),
or choose a Panetela, or any one of A&C's nine other
sizes and shapes. Pack or box, you're ahead behind an A&C.
Antonio y Cleopatra
the cigar that's going places
nP15,171111.49R0003001340043-1i
Product