SENATOR FULBRIGHT APPEARS ON ' ISSUES AND ANSWERS'

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP75-00149R000200930059-7
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 6
• Document Creation Date: November 17, 2016
• Document Release Date: August 4, 2000
• Sequence Number: 59
• Publication Date: July 2, 1963
• Content Type: OPEN

11402 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD SENATE STATINTL July 2
Southeast Asia-f}gntlnued
Laotians in `4mbodia and
Laos______ 35,000
Koreans from th Korea____ 1,000,000
India? Tibetan xgees-------- *45, 000
Nepal, Tibetans - gees--------- *20, 000
Bhutan and Sikk, Tibetan ref-
ugees---------, ------------ *5, 000
Pakistan, refuge rom India-3, 000, 000
Africa : '
From Angola ix{ a Condo-___ *200, 000
From Ruanda i urundi, Con-
go, Tanganyi ------------- *160,000
In Togo from hana, Ivory
Coast------- ------------- *5, 000
Europe:
UNHCR manda u still in camp
(profiting fr camp clear-
ance progra *9,000
UNHCR mand out of camp
profiting fro resettlement
programs) __ `____-__---__ *70, 000
From East Ger y s--------- 4,000,000
Refugees in Eu e not bene-
fiting from nternational
programs, w -'may receive
help from v ntary agen-
cies --------- r --------- *150,000
Spanish Republ, n refugees in
France ------ ----------- *80,000
Europeans flee Algeria,
mostly in Fr e___________ 750,000
Jewish refugees" om Tunisia,
Morocco, Alge , and Egypt,
mostly in Fr ce (most of
these have itch nation-
ality) ------- ----------- 180,000
Algerian Mosle !n France___ 37,000
Ethnic Greeks__ --___________ *3,500
Cuban refugees Spain ------ 5,000
Belgian return from the
Congo ------- ----------- 5,000
Dutch from Ind sia -------- 60,000
Italians from E t and Tu-
nisia ________ 15,000
Middle East:
Palestinian AraJin Jordan,
Syria*, Leb n*, and
Gaza* ____-i ----------- 1, 100, 000
Russians in Turk _-_________ *1,800
Armenians and ropeans in
Lebanon------' ____*1,250
Turkic refugees i- ran_5, 000
Western Hemispher' .. Cuban ref-
ugees, of whom ore than
150,000 in the U12- - d States;
the remainder; scattered
throughout Latin ` erica..--- 195, 000
The others, although
e the protection of a
nationality.
1 Approximately
lion Algerians who
ing the civil war
refugees from East
West Berlin despite
trying.
have now-14% years
completely resettled,
n Government.
with mines.
y of the Berlin Wall
ed to be their
(By the Rt. Rev.
It is common kn
of his nonviolent me
disturbing the peace
is attacked by both
that he stands at a le
both sides can learn.
of his methods, and
down in history as a
First, it is inevita
nents in the South
glee for justice and
that charge leveled a
also the original o
movement.
If a man or group
opinion can change
unjust ways.
JUL 2 1963
are excellent, and
all ponder deeply.
There being no
was ordered to be
as follows:
clear to me that Dr
nonviolent methods,
some Negroes wrong
at a counter and a
salt and catsup on
gusted with the w
allowed to eat a ham
And the behavior of
or just, but contemp
pletely clear.
criminations begin.
trophe if the headl
Riot." Dr. King is
more moral power t
is poured on your h
And the methods use
destroy the end desir
a Nation in which we
and brotherhood. If
and unjust, and the
strained, let that be w
record.
2. Every general should use the proper
tactics for a battle, and the tactics are de-
racial strife. Only
opal bishop of be-
writing in the De-
equally forthright
of Martin Luther
ade by Dr. Emrich
insert Bishop Em-
ECORD.
G
edge that not only
also some Negroes are
work of Rev. Mar-
critical whites dislike
every man who strug-
new order always has
inst him. The Boston
Washington disturbed
s to them an unjust
King is wise enough
n do not voluntarily
er, but that only real
bund swell of public
not a pacifist, it is
King is 'right in his
nd his critics among
s keep the moral
and innocent people
d, then the issue be-
and the endless re-
t would be a catas-
s Killed in Alabama
ght. It requires far
egroes wise and re-
en on the national
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termined by the situation. The fact is that
the Negroes area minority in America (one-
tenth of the opulation), and that, while
they are risin.in position, the whites still
have in Alab a and elsewhere the eco-
nomic, politic: and police power in their
If the Negr resorted to violence, they
would not onl `onfuse the issue but head
for sure defeat. ome whites, therefore, hate
Dr. King, beta , as a good tactician, he is
using the only roper and effective plan of
battle. He is pealing to America's con-
science and to a Constitution. He is not
bucking the lin gainst impossible odds, but
pulling a wide d sweep where the opposi-
tion is most vul able-the conscience of the
Nation. Malcol X's opinions are as blind
and as stupid a hose of all men who hate;
and Dr. King, f owing the instructions of
his Lord, is as " e as a serpent and as in-
3. Dr. King kit s that if a man hates, he
destroys himself wardly, and that only the
method of love build the unified Na-
tion we desire. er a trip to India, where
he studied Gandh methods, he wrote: "The
aftermath of h ed and bitterness that
usually follows a lent campaign was found
nowhere in India nd a mutual friendship,
based on complet quality, existed between
the Indian and itish people within the
He knows with r ism that many hate him
and that the stru a is long, but he writes:
"The nonviolent a ` oath does something to
the hearts and sou of those committed to
it. It gives them W self-respect. It calls
up resources of s gth and courage they
did not know they d. Finally, it so stirs
the conscience of t opponent that recon-
ciliation becomes a lit y."
He has been in ja l2 times ("daddy, why
do you have to go jail so much?") ; his
house has been bo ed twice, and he has
been stabbed once. a could react bitterly,
but does not. He j keeps coming, saying
"I bear in my body e marks of the Lord
Jesus." There is no pping the Negroes if,
under his leadershi they continue their
extraordinary displa f moral power.
After all, their po ion is unanswerable.
Why should not any merican be permitted
to vote, or eat a ham rger where he wishes,
or enjoy any of the er privileges of a free
nation? So, he dist s the peace, and ap-
peals to the conscie e of the Nation. He
will not be quiet, and e will not bate.
If yo}~ wish to know ore about this great
manjtom the inside, read his "Strength To
SENATOR FULBRIGHT APPEARS ON
SWERS"
Mr. ENGLE. Madam President, Sun-
day before last I had the pleasure of
listening to the distinguished Senator
from Arkansas, Senator FULBRIGHT, on
ABC's "Issues and Answers" program.
The program dealt with the President's
trip to Europe, the Atlantic Alliance, and
the cold war. It was a stimulating ex-
perience to listen to Senator FULBRIGHT's
straightforward answers to the questions
raised. He handled the program with
his usual clarity and good sense..
I was surprised when the two leading
daily newspapers in Washington editor-
ialized regarding Senator FULBRICHT'S
remarks. One of them called him an
amateur psychiatrist because he un-
dertook to explain why, in his opinion,
France has been so hard to get along
with.
I thought his statements were sensible
and fair. He referred to General de
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1963 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -SENATE
11401
gerian refugees have received over 150,000 Korea. Through donations and "gifts-in- arisen or where there are refugees who must
tons of food via Food for Peace shipments. kind," CARE provided $324,380 worth of be fed.
Recent world wide events have demon- self-help equipment, school supplies, agri- Shipments of multipurpose food to 15 ma--
stratrd the continuing part that refugees cultural tools, vocational kits, clothing, or areas in 1961-62 total 60,621 pounds.
and escapees play in political upheavals. medical supplies and livestock to refugees in Polish American Immigration and Relief
The construction of the wall in Berlin, the several countries. Areas of concentration ?.,
from Red China into Hong Kong in May 1962, India, Korea and Vietnam. PAIRC'a continuing program for Polish
point up problems of immense interest and post-war refugees in 'Western Europe and
P i Catholic Relief Services (CRS) newly arrived escapes (now averaging 350
signiJcance to the United States and the As of July :1, 1962 CRS handed over the per year) including irrunigration and inte-
whol,A Free World. In addition to the Cuban implementation of its refugee projects in
refugees in the United States and in Latin Europe and doumhelp entaal of cases of "old" the Government has responded to Catholic charitable organizations national
con- gees under special for new r escapees, atios "em" r registration developing refugees situations in Laos, t
to North Africa C indigenous
S and on the te con- sa of sponsorships immigration for migratio regular chemes, ara-
In
in the Congo and elsewhere-either directly with . the In various
United th Nations High CRS cooperated
r needy ref-
Commissioner r Lion cases, vision
or in cooperation with international organs- with d Nations financial assistance to needy refu-
ortin cooperation funds, International
food and other for Refugees in the repatriation of Algerian gees and assistance in implementing regu-
refugees from Tunisia and Morocco. In the lar UNHCR integration programs.
supplies, as appropriate. Far East assistance provided to refugees in
Spanish Refugee Aid, Inc.
5 WORK OF THE VOLUNTARY AGENCIES Hong Kong, Macao, Korea and North Viet- ..,_.., -_ ,? -- _ _ _ _
Casals was opened in Montauban, France.
largely summarized from reports to USCR by tribution, vocational training courses, hou ur- It is now providing 181 Individual Spanish
the voluntary agencies concerned.) ing projects, provision of emergency sup- Republican refugees 60
American Council for Emigres in the Profes- plies, conducting of agricultural and work over Sears old with
stoics ACEP projects, schools and dispensaries. Of Cuban a community center in addition. to food pack-
( ) refugees, as of mid-February, 1963, 108,204 ages, clothing and a special cash Christmas
During the year 1961-62 1,719 academically were registered with Catholic Relief Serv- gift. Spanish Refugee Aid also continued
trained refugees registered with ACEP for ices in Miami. CRS has found homes and to provide financial aid, food packages and
vocat.:,onal counselling and job placement. jobs for 31,908 throughout the United States, clothing. In the past year ii; has assisted
About; three-quarters, or 1,168, were Cuban. 1,441 cases.
During the year ACEP made 304 direct fob Church World Service (CWS) _ - .?
and 300 Interim placements. able by CWS to purchase supplies for re- The Tolstoy-Foundation continued to help
Amen can Council Gently arrived Chinese refugees in Hong find employment, solve housing problems,
for Nationalities Service Kong. Clothing, shoes and blankets are be- provide supplementary food and clothing and
~~=+a arru u,e uiernuer agencies nave oe- petted there. A steady flow of blankets, 10,000 Russian and other refugees registered
come increasingly Involved in the Cuban clothing and vitamins continues to go to with them in Europe.
resettlement program throughout the United Algeria. In the Congo, where CWS works United 1'hIAS
Stater. In cities where Cubans have been through the Congo Protestant Relief Agency, United BIAS continued to assist Jewish
resett~ed the local agency, or International Angolan refugees have received food, cloth- Instit: ate, has helped. At present the agen- ing and medicine. refugees and migrants :from Europe, Egypt,
cies most heavily involved are those in Cuba, and North Africa to resettle in the
Chico;o, Ill.; Milwaukee, Wis.; Philadelphia, Direct Relief Foundation United States, Latin America, Canada, and
Pa.; Lowell and Lawrence, Mass. Direct Relief Foundation has reduced or Australia. During 1961 the total number of
American Fund for Czechoslovak discontinued help to refugees in Europe in refugees helped to resettle was 7,156. Of
In.c (AFCR) Refugees, order to expand its activities in Hong Kong this total, 3,733 came to the United States,
-5 '- =u u' ?==a==y, r,uc+rux euu uIrrer cases in Greece. Help is also being given United Lithuanian Relief Fund of America
F,urop pan countries. Its program. is largely refugees from Honduras in Nicaragua. About 9,500 Lithuanian refugees concerned with resettlement, local integra-
tion. and special assistance. International Rescue Committee (IRC) Germany receive aid from the nited Lihu-
During 1961 about 1,025 refugees arrived anian Relief Fund. During the past fiscal
American Korean Foundation In the United States under IRC auspices. year a few of this group came to the United
Officially the 4 million North Koreans who Included In this group were Indonesian refu- States. This was balanced out, however, by
fled to South Korea have been integrated. gees from the Netherlands, Iron Curtain ref- new arrivals.
However, approximately 1 million of these ugees from Europe, Cuban refugees from Unitarian Service Committee, Inc.
refugees are still unemployed, live in shacks Spain. and Jamaica, Dominican refugees During 1961, 5,874 Spanish Republican
made of cardboard and tin cans. The foun- from Curacao and Brazil and Chinese refu- refugees received help from t:he Unitarian
dation has been assisting housing develop- gees from Hong Kong. IRC has continued its Service Committee, which maintains a cen-
ments in refugee settlements, ongoing program of resettlement, financial
aid, ter in Toulouse, France.
American National Red Cross job placement, medical care, clothing, ,r,,,?.,a r,,,=.,,,....+.. ~,__..,__ .,.......
Cross, working through the League of Red to Cuban refugees in Miami and Chinese The Hong Kong Chinese refugee student
Cross i worki and/or the International Red refugees in Hong Kong. program, begun with the 1959--60 academic
year, Committee has participated in refugee International Social Service (ISS) of , State earmarked administered with funds. ]II tially, five
relief actions for Algerian refugees in At the request of the United States Gov- Chinese refugee ugee students were awarded five
re award WUS
'Punisf ~, and Morocco, refugees in Togo, ernme:nt for aid in the Hong Kong crisis, scholarships to supplement awards made to
e to
Tibetan refugees in Nepal and displaced per- ISS brought a special airlift of 48 orphans them by U.S. colleges and universities. The
Ions i:i Laos. Food, clothing and medical from Hong Kong to the United States in college staff training fellowship program,
care have been provided. The :Red Cross June 1962. - offering graduate fellowships to Chinese
continues its relief operation for Algerian Lutheran Immigration Service Committee refugees who are members of the teaching
refugees during repatriation and resettle- (LIS) staffs of post-secondary colleges in Hong
meat. Medical teams checked the health Kong, was begun in the 1961-62 academic
of returning refugees at crossing points. The Lutheran Immigration Service Com- year.
Food was provided for the return journey, mittee, an agency of the National Lutheran
tents were made available for temporary Council and the Lutheran Church-Missouri 6. THE WORLD'S REFUGEES
shelter. In Togo, farming tools and seed Synod., In cooperation with the Lutheran (NOTE.-This table has been compiled from
were provided refugees resettled on farm World Federation continued its program of the best available sources. Inev:.tably, where
land, The Red Cross has helped establish help and assistance to refugees. Areas of accurate census taking is not feasible, esti-
handcraft and work centers and schools in special activity include assistance to indi- mates of refugee populations vary.)
Nepal. vidual. refugees remaining in Europe, par- Hong Kong and Macao, from
CARE, Inc. titularly in the reuniting of families, die- mainland China --------------- *1, 270, 000
C2+R.:3's expenditures for assistance to flcult-to-resettle cases. Mainland China, Europeans still
refugees for the fiscal year 1961-62 approxi- Meals for Millions Foundation awaiting Immigration ---------- *2, 500
Southeast Asia:
mated $1,098,420. The larger portion of this Meals for Millions Foundati
i
on, ded
cated
:Lid (about $774,040) went in the form of to the relief and prevention of star io Chinese, 50.000 in North R?r..
N a on, rehabilitation or resettlement ing shipments of multipurpose food to areas Vietnamese ----------------- _? 900,10 0
centers In West Berlin, Hong Kong and where disaster has struck, emergencies have Footnote at end of table.
No. 100-4
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE 11403
Gaulle as a "great patriot." He referred
to France as a "great nation." He said
that France had "suffered a greater
shock to her national pride than any
other country." But he told the truth.
The other editorial brought up the
chicken problem. The President has
written two letters to Chancellor Aden-
auer about chickens and Secretary Rusk
has discussed the matter with leaders In
West Germany on several occasions.
The point is that chickens just happened
to be an example of the very major
problem we face in getting our agricul-
tural imports into the Common Market
area. These imports today amount to
over $1 billion. Our current dollar
deficit-because of expenditures in the
European area-is $2.7 billion. If the
offset of our agricultural exports is can-
celed out instead'of having a net loss
of $1.7 billion, we will have a net loss
of $2..7 billion.
Everyone who has studied the problem
knows that the question of agriculture in
the Common Market is the stickiest we
have. Senator FULBRIGHT just put his
finger on one illustration.
I think his remarks were broad enough
to make it plain the he was talking about
the whole panorama of our problems that
could result from the loss of our agricul-
tural exports to the Common Market.
I commend the entire transcript to my
colleagues who may have missed the
broadcast and I wish to say again that
I think Senator FULBRIGHT answered the
questions raised with truth, fairness, and
moderation. I believe that few Mem-
bers of this body would disagree with
my view that we are fortunate indeed to
have a man of Senator FULBRIGHT'S in-
telligence, experience, ability, and de-
tachment handling the crucial area of
foreign relations for the U.S. Senate.
Madam President, I ask unanimous
consent that the program "Issues and
Answers" of June 23, 1963, be printed in
the RECORD.
? There being no objection, the program
was ordered to be printed in the RECORD,
as follows:
"ISSUES AND ANSWERS," SUNDAY, JUNE 23, 1963
Guest: Senator J. WT
I
Democrat, of Arkans u n erv ew"S liy:.
John Rolfson, ABC Capitol Hill correspond-
ent, and John Scali, ABC "State Department
correspondent.
The ANNOUNCER. From Washington, the
American Broadcasting Co. brings you "Issues
and Answers,"
Senator J. WILLIAM FULBRIGHT, chairman
of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee,
here are the issues: Will. the President's trip
do any good What can we do about Gen-
eral de Gaulle? Is the time right for an end
to the cold war? You have heard the issues.
Now for the answers from Senator J. WILLIAM
FULBRIGHT, Democrat, of Arkansas, chairman
of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Here to interview Senator FULBRIGHT, ABC
Capitol Hill correspondent, John Rolfson, and
with the first question, ABC State Depart-
ment correspondent, John Scali.
Mr. SCALY. Senator, welcome to "Issues and
Answers."
Senator FULBRIGHT. I am glad to be here
again.
Mr. SCALI. President Kennedy's trip seems
off to a fairly good start with hundreds of
thousands of Germans cheering him at every
stop.. Yet there are those who say that
cheers and applause are about all the Presi=
dent will get during this trip.
Do you agree?'
Senator FULBRIGHT. No; I don't agree with
these criticisms that it is riot a timely trip.
I think it may be very well-you have some
changes going on, you have a new, although
a caretaker government that is set in Italy,
you have the prospects of a new government
in England and in .Germany. I think an
examination, getting acquainted with these
situations and the forces that are at work
may be very timely.
Mr. SCALI. Well, do you get anything more
than except a psychological showing of the
American flag at a time such as this?
Senator FULBRIGHT. Well, these great turn-
outs of people-I didn't mean that, that that
is particularly significant, but he will un-
doubtedly have serious talks with the in-
coming people and those that are already
prospects in the next go-round in these vari-
ous governments and I think he ought to feel
his way and to get acquainted with them and
to make known to all of them our serious
concern about the recent developments in
the so-called Atlantic Alliance and the seri-
ousness of the effect of General de Gaulle's
actions in January.
Mr. ROLFSON. Senator FULBRIGHT, do you
think a trip of this kind can do any good as
a counterattack on the De Gaulle policies,
for example?
Senator FULBRIGHT. I certainly do. I don't
like to put it in military terms as a coun-
terattack and so on. This is a matter of I
think the most delicate diplomacy and I
think our objective is to bring back into
focus the importance of the Atlantic Alli-
ance, or the Atlantic partnership, if you like,.
I have not abandoned that yet, although
if Mr. de Gaulle or General de Gaulle has his
way I think It will be a very serious matter
and he himself I think may be able to
change his mind if he is given the proper
opportunity with proper face-saving mech-
anisms built in.
I don't quite think that General de Gaulle
wishes to return completely to the 18th
century.
Mr. RoLFSON. Senator, what kind of a
policy would it take, what do you think we
should do specifically to encourage General
de Gaulle to change his mind?
Senator FULBRIGHT. I think we ought to
persuade all of the other countries of the
importance of it, the Italians, the Germans,
the Dutch, the Belgians. I think they are
Interested in building a much greater unity
and cooperation among the Atlantic Com-
munity or all the members of the free world.
This is the hope. It has been the basic
theme of our policy for years and I think
General de Gaulle's action has very severely
shaken the confidence that all these nations
can wgFk closely together.
I think that is the greatest damage he has
done. He has at least temporarily shaken
the confidence that we can do it and I
think the President may well restore this.
These are intangible things. I don't expect
him to have a great treaty or to solve any of
these problems on this trip, but I think he
is a very astute political animal and I think
he undesrtands many of these issues and I
hope he can do some good.
I don't think there Is anything wrong
with the timing of this trip.
Mr. ScALI. Isn't what you are saying, Sen-
ator, adding up to a policy on our part of
seeking to isolate and outflank General de
Gaulle at the moment?
Senator FULBRIGHT. I . don't like to 'put It
in such brutal terms. However, if you
choose, I would say that is one way to put
it, but I don't wish to mount quite as
bluntly this kind of a contest. The general
is a great patriot. I think France suffered
a greater shock to their national pride than
any other country. The performance of
France as we all know in the Second. World
War was not very creditable. It deeply
wounded their pride and she" is a great nation
and I think this Is a kind of a reaction to
that and I think you have to handle people
who have been severely wounded in this
way with kid gloves, so to speak. Although
I think there is a limit to what we can do, we
certainly have done a lot for France.
Mr. SCALY. Do you think perhaps the gen-
eral is trying to compensate then for a. bad
performance in World War II?
Senator FULBRIGHT. I think he is over-
compensating, I think he is overcompensat-
ing and I think he have to make some al-
lowances for this and have some patience.
I don't want to understate how serious I
think what he has done is. I think it Is very
serious and I don't know that we can-I am
still hopeful that we can overcome this and
bring back into, as I say, focus, all of these
countries working closely together.
Mr. ROLFSON. Well, Senator, do you think
this is purely De Gaulle or is this the atti-
tude of France which will outlast De Gaulle?
Senator FULBRIGHT. I think the latter, if I
may say so. I don't think it is purely De
Gaulle, because it wasn't just De Gaulle who
was wounded by this performance. In fact,
he, performed better than France did durin.g
that period. But I think-the whole. French
people were and they had a great history and
It is not only the way they acted then
during the war, but their failure to operate
a self-governing democracy throughout the
period until De Gaulle-that is, operate" it
satisfactorily, with this constant changing
of governments.
It was a reflection of this restlessness and
internal dissension. They could not gen-
erate any consensus within their country.
These are signs of this same thing and I do
think it goes beyond just De Gaulle.
Mr. ROLFSON. Of course, one of the justifi-
cations for the De Gaulle policy is that the
United States is not necessarily permanently
committed to Europe, to staying there, and
one reaction in this country has been, one
part of the resentment at De Gaulle has been
the demand that we do pull out of Europe
and let De Gaulle and France and the Euro-
peans stew in their own juice.
Doesn't this sort of justify the De Gaulle
policy, their attitude in this country? '
Senator FULBRIGHT. Well, De Gaulle does
things such as in the trade area, and the way
he speaks about us and so on, that tends to
bring about his own prophesy. In other
words, he creates conditions that may make
it impossible for us to stay, in force. For
example, if they insist upon this policy of ex-
eluding our agriculture, if they treat all of
agriculture as they have treated poultry, then
it makes it impossible for us to sustain an
Army in Europe at the cost of $1 billion be-
cause we already have a deficit in our bal-
ance of payments. And it is possible for
him, if he has his way, and all of Europe co-
operates with him, to make it impossible for
us to stay, which will make come true. his
prophesy, but he will be the architect of
that.
Mr. SCALI. Well, do you think then that we
should consider withdrawing the troops even
as a threat to force De Gaulle to change his
policy?
Senator FULBRIGHT. I don't like to use
threats of that kind. .1 think we have al-
ready stated-I have, at least-I say "we."
I don't know that the President has, I am
a little freer agent than he is-it is quite
obvious we will have to cut down our troops
if they persist in the trade policies that they
have started in.
I think that is just a matter of financial
necessity.
Mr. SCALI. Senator, you mentioned the
Common Market. Congressman REUSS,
among others, has written that In backing
the Common Market, the U.S. Government is
primarily, or at least partially to blame be-
cause what we have done is encourage forma-
tion of what is a Frankenstein monster, an
organization which it now develops is In-
ward-looking, which discriminates against
American tariffs, whereas our focus should
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 Approved
broader grouping of free world countries.
Do you subscribe to that?
Senator FULBRIGHT. Well, I think there is
something to that. I don't know that we
could have controlled It. I don't wish to
always bring it up and say "I told you so,"
but it is a fact that when the Marshall plan
was first introduced, I and some of my col-
leagues attempted to have incorporated in
that as a policy, the unification of Europe
at that time as a part of the Marshall plan,
on a broader scale than just the Six, and I
think this would have been preferable, and
I think it would have been a very wise thing
to do.
The Secretary of State at that time, Dean
Acheson, was opposed to this policy. I think
this is a question of timing. He thought It
was too much to ask of them at that time
in 1948 to make great political changes as
well as economic adjustments and therefore
our Government didn't support it.
I think it was a mistake and I agree with
you that it should have been done that way.
Nevertheless, I think that in view of the fact
that the two last World Wars were generated
by the frictions among these very countries,
that some kind of cooperative unification of
Europe was called for.
Now the fact that it is presently Inward,-
looking is too bad. Our job is to try to
make it outward-looking, but I wouldn't
regret the fact that they are moving to-
ward unity in Europe.
Mr. ROLFSON. I think perhaps this idea
goes a little beyond that, though. That in
the past and possibly still now, what we
should have done and should be doing Is
not only encouraging a united Europe, in-
dependent of us, but making a greater com-
mitment ourselves in this organization, eco-
nomically-
Senator FULBRIGHT. I didn't get that point.
I agree with that. Yes, we should. But
there is a great resistance here in our coun-
try to do it, but I would favor that and I
think we ought to do it.
Mr. RoLFSos. What would you do? How
would you start?
Senator FULBRIGHT. What I recently sug-
gested was a very minor thing, the creation
of what we call an Atlantic Consultative As-
sembly, to make the step of bringing their
people and ours together in a regular in-
stitutionalized manner, the representatives
of all of these countries, going beyond the
six, including Scandinavia.
Mr. ROLF60N. For law-making purposes?
Senator FULBRIGHT. No, I say consultative
assembly. I think that is the first step. I
don't think you could get that step. You
know, as Erick Hoffer puts it, the ordeal of
change is a very serious matter and to get
anyone to adjust to a new idea is a major
undertaking and I just think you would
fail.
I think they would allow perhaps a con-
sultative assembly which has been recom-
mended, as a result of the meeting, as you
will remember, that Herter and Will Clay-
ton sponsored, or were our principal repres-
entatives. I think this is a step in that di-
rection. It is consistent with the OECD.
The OECD is demanding a parliamentarians'
conference and if we could merge that in a
way with the NATO parliamentarians' con-
ference, maybe we can get a conference In-
cluding more than the Six and then we could
move toward consultative bodies and then
later perhaps something stronger. We can-
not foresee how it would develop but that
is one thing we could do.
Mr. SCAT,. Senator, if we can turn to the
broader East-West picture for a moment,
do you see any real opportunity in the days
ahead of an accommodation between the
United States and Russia which might flow
out of the speech that the President made
June 10 where he called for a re-examina-
tion of the cold war concept?
RECORD - SENATE
Senator FULBRIGHT. Well, I approve of the
speech. I don't think there Is going to be
any great sudden change in this business.
I favor the gradual change as being the only
realistic one.
I do think there are various circum-
stances that are moving now in a direction
which might make it possible to alleviate
the tensions of the cold war. The Chinese-
Russian discussion is one of them. The
vast cost of these armaments programs,
which must affect Russia as it affects us,
and the, I think, general settling down of
their activities. I notice they are curbing
their foreign aid program. I think they
are disillusioned with their experience in
Iraq, Indonesia, and other places. I think
the prospects that we are going to do it for
different reasons than theirs, but some of
the same reasons. I think there is a pos-
sibility here. They haven't been too offensive
about Berlin lately, and so on.
Therefore I think it is timely and I think
an expression by the President of this kind
leads to a discussion. I would hope such
discussions can take place and small, tenta-
tive agreements made. Tentative in the
sense that they don't so'i~e the problem,
but honestly I think when you examine the
great problems that we are having internally
and that they are having with China, it
creates further matters which we have in
common.
Mr. RoLFsoN. You listed the Russian-
Chinese conference as one of the things that
might alleviate it. Does that mean you see
out of this conference coming a softer Chi-
nese line rather than a harder Russian line?
Senator FULBRIGHT. No; I would hope it
would confirm In the Russian's mind that
they have more in common with the Western
peoples, the Europeans as well as ourselves,
than they do with the Chinese, because the
Chinese, if I interpret what they are saying,
it Is that they do not accept the concept
of coexistence; they demand the continua-
tion of violence, the violent revolution
wherever it can be had and promoted and
I think the Russians recognize the dangers
themselves if we have a nuclear war.
The Russians are more conscious of the
destruction of a possible nuclear. war. They
have more to lose in another sense, having
accomplished a good deal in the rebuilding
of their country. There are many reasons
of this nature which I think might lead the
Russians to take a different view from the
Chinese. The Chinese give every evidence
of having very little fear of a nuclear war.
Furthermore, the Chinese are much closer to
the Russians than they are to us. We get
excited about Cuba. Well, what if you had
600 million people right on your border,
as the Russians have, why wouldn't you be
excited about that? We have only 6 million
down bore, 90 miles from our coast.
All of these things go together. I think
it is worth examining, anyway. I thought
his statement there was worthwhile.
Mr. ScALI. Senator, you mentioned the
possibility of some tentative agreements in
limited areas. Do you think that these
should be explored and pursued at the diplo-
matic working level or perhaps elevated
to the point of a summit conference?
Senator FULBRIGHT. No, I think the first.
That is where they should be explored, at
the lower level, diplomatic and at most a
ministerial before you get-I am not an advo-
cate of summit meetings before you get
anywhere.
Mr. ScALI. In that connection, as you
know, Averell Harriman is flying to Mos-
cow in mid-July. ?"
Senator FULBRIGHT. Yes.
Mr. SeALI. Do you see this as perhaps one
of the wedges that could open this whole
area?
Senator FULBRIGHT. Well, this is the sort of
thing that ought to be going on all the time,
to discuss these matters. Now they have
Jul 2
apparently agreed on the so-called hot lin--^.
I wouldn't overemphasize its significan~x,
but it is something.
I think they are still hopeful that maybe
something in the test ban area might be de-
veloped. Nothing concrete has yet come out.
I don't know that it will, but I think we
ought to keep plugging on these matters.
After all, you are still faced with the alterna-
tive of this finally escalating into a nuclear
war if we don't do something.
Mr. RoLFSOwv. Senator, the Republican
leadership in Congress was extremely scorn-
ful of this whole American University speech,
the nuclear test and all the rest, and the
idea that our policy should try to encour-
age the Russians toward a more enlightened
policy and so forth.
Senator FULB:axmHT. Yes.
Mr. ROLFSON. They have complained that
the President was shooting from the hip
without consulting with them. Do you
think there is some big error here in .he
administration in not bringing the Republi-
cans in more at the beginning of such poli-
cies as these?
Senator FULBRIGHT. Well, I rather think
it would be wise to consult more with them,
although I am not personally aware of just
how little he has consulted. Naturally
he consults with them, I don't always know
it, and I am not always there. I think on
the other hand everybody is beginning, I
think prematurely, to become interested in
the 1964 election and I think that colors
this a little bit.
There is a tremendous ad in this morn-
ing's paper, a whole full-page ad, with a
great national rally for Mr. GOLDWATER, al-
ready within a Week or two.
I think it is going to make it a long cam-
paign, but I do think that it is wise to consult
the opposition, any government that is in
power.
Mr. ScALI. Of course, the opponents of thin
new Presidential approach characterize it as
a sign that the accoramodators have taken
over the direction of our foreign policy. They
don't answer when they say "Well, do you
mean appeasers?" They say "No, we will let
the word 'accommodator' stand."
Senator FULBRIGHT. I guess there is a re-
vival. This is what they emphasized in the
early fifties under McCarthy and they have
always thought this was pay dirt, that this
was, politically profitable. I think they have
overworked Cuba for this same reason, seek-
ing to say that the Democrats are soft on com-
munism. I think it is too bad. This is a
very bad thing to restrict the freedom of
action of our Government, whatever govern-
ment it is, whether it i.s the Republicans un-
der Eisenhower or under Kennedy, he ought
to be free in this area. to try to do what he
can to avoid a nuclear war. I think this is
dangerous politics, but it Is not new. It is a
continuation of it. We have had it in Cuba
and I regret it.
Mr. RoLFSON. Let me ask about Cuba.
Premier Castro has come back from Russia
feeling very confident about his position and
powers. Do you think: we are going to have
to live with him for a long time in,,Quba?
Senator FULBRIGHT. I rather think so, un-
less he does something very foolish. I think
there was a time, of course, when we might
have invaded, at the time when we had a
real excuse back last October. We didn't.
We chose another route. At the time I think
that was generally applauded, but anyway I
see no excuse now to mount an offensive.
Mr. RoLFSON. How about the Russians?
Do we have to live with them too, in Cuba?
Their troops?
Senator FULBRIGHT. I think so, unless you
wish to take-unless you wish to mount ail
invasion and go to war about it. I. don't
think it is sufficiently important to warrant
a full-'scale invasion and this is what I think
you are talking about. What I object to of
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 ."- - Approved For Release 2000/08/27 : CIA-RDP75-00149R000200930059-7
SENATE 11405
963
Next week. at this time our guest will be
the former Director, of .the_ U,5,. _Qenti'ai:.In-
teiligence Agency, Mr. Allen W. Dulles. We
GRESSIONAL RECORD
those who criticize it so vigorously is they #N ion of my toile
go right up to the point and you say "Do you ing recent Federal
advocate an invasion," and they say "No." in New York in
But everything said prior to that would lead Rochelle school
to no other conclusion. which was the pilot
Now I think either you invade or you don't.
Ithink what they are doing is everything desegregation in th
nection, allied with Cuba, and it is this de- ernmental structur QAipea veloping situation i11,.Bxlt , A- who * of the State of Ne'
Now Mrs Jagan d are. whom as you
made a statement thanking Fidel Castro for throughout the cou
his assistance when they were stuck, mean- I ask unanimous
ing they have received food, rice and other important and lea
and I hope the British do not pursue this was ordered to be p
policy of withdrawal and'independence under as follows:
these conditions. I know it is out of char- (U.S. District Court fo
think these conditions warrant us at least LESLIE TAYLOR AND
doing what we can to persuade the British WILBERT TAYLOR
not to give up their control. BY , r~ n BERT mA ~r
tecting the unloading of these Cuban sup-
plies and the loading of the,Russian ship
and I would not like to see an` elddnsion,
another Communist country in Latin Amer-
ica, on the mainland.
Mr. SCALI. If the British feel because of
various things that they have to withdraw
and Premier Jagan sets up a full-fledged
Communist government there, do you think
there is anything the United States could
and should do?
Senator FULBRIGHT. Well, I would certainly
try to think of something I could do. I be-
lieve there are things we could do. But I
would hope the British wouldn't. They are
in there legally and the conditions are not
of their creation. I think there is every Jus-
tification for them delaying at least their
withdrawal.
Mr. ROLFSON, I am sorry, Senator, I am
going to have to interrupt. Our time is up.
Thank you very much, Senator FULBRIaIrr, Appearances: Paul
for being with us on "Issues and Answers." plaintiffs; Murray C.
Senator FULBRICHT. Thank you for inviting board of education; R
The ANNOUNCER. This concludes this David R. Hyde.
week's "Issues and Answers" with Senator J. Irving R. Kaufman,
as Dr. David G. Salte
schools, who addressed
ing.
sweeping the Nation at this time is quite in which the Nation wil
the public and government
the particular area is dedic
JORIE WILLIAMS, TH
FRIENDS, AND CHER
MINOR, BY ULA WIL,
NEXT FRIEND, AND L
BY THOMAS GARLAND
FRIEND, AND BENJAM
MICHELEE HALL AND
CLISH, AS SUPERINTE
THE CITY SWOOL DI
NEW ROCHELLE, DEF
in all parts for. all. I want publicl
ons. I have tempo of that revolution is
ues'a most interest-
strict court decision
North. This deci-
le Irving R. Kauf-
andmark of good-
will be repeated
N TAYLOR, MINORS,
NEXT FRIENDS, AND
D ROSLYN WILLIAMS,
PARENTS AND NEXT
ANN WILLIAMS, A
ER FATHER AND NEXT
HALL, LONNIE HALL,
MURPHY, A MINOR,
D WILLENE MURPHY,
T FRIENDS, AND FOR
OOL DISTRICT OF THE
LE, AND HERBERT C.
uber, attorney for
uerst, attorney for
J. (delivered from
n pleased to hear
o, chairman of the
superintendent of
e court this morn-
tonal opportunity
to thank Messrs.
counsel for the
rformed a great
Nation as well.
legal and social
relations. The
ver quickening
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noted that the problem of equal opportunity
regardless of race is~ sot a sectional prob.
,.
lem-it is nationwide
The truth Of this tement is confirmed
by the case history o New Rochelle's Lin-
coln School integratio litigation, the Judi-
cial phases of which hopefully, drawing
to a close. In order, hat the application
now before this tour ay be set In con-
text, a brief statemen 'of that history will
be undertaken.
New Rochelle, a sub` b of New York City
of the City of New
ed as one of the
on, the plaintiffs
and maintained
segregated school
1930, had gerry-
hich the Lincoln
that a large por-
board assured the
chool as a Negro
the status quo or
racial imbalance
ch it had caused
Rochelle, which was
defendants. In this
tral New Rochelle, then
of approximately 94 p
by the board as a racial
in violation of the 14th
Federal Constitution.
that the school board,
mandered the district I
Webster and Mayflower
the 4 years following, t
further transfers were f
board did nothing to all
in the Lincoln School
to be brought about.
constrained to find that
to maintain the Linco
amendment as interpr
Court in Brown v. Boar
guaranteed to them by
ment," 191 F. Supp. at
In order to cure this
court directed the board
to remedy the illegality.
modification, was adopts
the court, in May 1961,
optional transfer plan; but,
vided that the board was u
tree." This court, then, is 'till seized of
jurisdiction over this case "` nd over, the
administration of the terms" f the decree.
I now have before me an
the present school board-v
tion is substantially differen
the board at the time of the o
seeking certain amendments
tions of that decree.
e deliberate efforts
School as a seg-
itution worked a
protection of the
Education, supra.
"The conduct of
has operated to
opportunities for
ial illness, this
present a plan
S F. Supp. 231
the decree pro-
e decree pro-
er no obliga-
of the decree.
provision that
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11406 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE
It is clear that this application has been
precipitated by the changing circumstances
in New Rochelle which have followed upon
the board's efforts to comply with this
court's order. On the date of the commence-
ment M this litigation, Lincoln School had
an enrdtlment of 483 students, of whom 454,
or 94 percent, were Negro. As a result of
the tran:g'er of Lincoln students to the city's
11 other 'elementary schools, the percentage
of Negro 'students dropped immediately to
approxima'ely 89 percent. A year and a
half later, Va April 1963, the entire student
population Lincoln School was less than
half what its when this court entered its
decree; only 2% pupils had chosen to remain
enrolled at tt s antiquated school, con-
structed 65 yearlt ago.
The economic Raid social Impact of this
mass exodus has Awn perceptively analyzed
and extrapolated the present forward-
looking school boarThe operation of Lin-
coln School has becdne economically Un-
feasible due to the gr*tly diminished size
of the student body; as April of this year,
although the average anital per capita cost
of education in all the I *w Rochelle ele-
mentary schools was approx ately $877 per
student, the cost of educate a student at
Lincoln was somewhat more tlt&n $1,057. As
the student body will continu decrease
the cost per Lincoln School stu t will in-
crease. It has become obvious to a present
board that the Lincoln School must(je closed
and permanently shut down.
But more at the heart of this eroding
is the school board's fear-grounded-%P. a
sincere desire to conform not only with'9 the
letter but with the spirit of this con's Thus, in the instant case, the New Ro-
decree-a fear that the continuation of 1;Yk# chelle School Board hag" taken the initiative
plan of free optional transfer, pursuant td$_pad ff.- and suit +
e" "` place t ofe students living within the
being closed down, will pose a serious threat Lincoln` st "t, the board proposes to pro-
of de facto racial segregation in those con- vide bus nsportation to these students
tiguous schools, if the remaining students on a basis ' tical to that provided through-
at Lincoln are permitted to exercise a free out New, oc lie--that is, transportation to
choice of school to be attended. any school d ination within 11/2 and 10
The school board and its enlightened su- miles ,cif the st nt's home. As the school
perintendent of schools, Dr. David G. Salten, board;' has stated its report on its pro-
a nationally recognized educator-after hold- poseh plan to the zens of New Rochelle:
ing two public hearings in May of this year, "T hnsportation will a key factor in our
at which 1,300 and 900 citizens, respectively, g arts to maintain an nic balance in our
were in attendance and 98 speakers heard; ;elementary schools and revent the emer-
after attending many meetings of P-I'A ,gence of segregated soh This report
groups, and civic and neighborhood associa-.- further states: "Any solutio ?for the prob-
tions; and after consulting with experts lit lens at Lincoln must be r ved on the
the field and with those representing the basis of what is good for the 0f system
interests of the Negro population of ,he and the community as a whole. ing the
Lincoln district-therefore asks this oitrt school and transporting its studen out-
to amend and modify the letter of the:decree lying areas fulfills this criterion bee se it
in order that its spirit may best be perpetu- avoids tipping contiguous schools an n-
In my original opinion in this ;- tigation, central schools to attend an integrate
I expressed my sincere belief in tie proposi- school."
tion that the desegregation prQQ'blem in the I have been advised that the additional
Lincoln district could be solved' by "men of cost to each of the residents of New Rochelle
good will, wisdom and inge}fuity," 191 F. once the benefits of bus transportation are
Supp. at 193. It is gratifyiAg that, among extended to the students in question will be
the membership of the present school board, insignificant. It must also be noted that,
New Rochelle has found `such men. It is pursuant to State law, 90 percent of the
obvious that these are $nen of heart and transportation costs incurred in the city of
of broad vision. They:have taken a most New Rochelle will be borne by New York
commendable and faf ighted step in pro- State in the 1963-64 and successive school
jecting the philosop,fy which underlay the years, and only 10 percent by the city. In
original decree-and by their action will short, the burdens resulting from the imple-
minimize or perlAps avoid the problem, mentation of the proposed transportation
plaguing so man33other communities, of ra- plan are infinitesimal when compared to its
cial Imbalance lit their system of education, benefits.
This reaf irmatIbn of respect for man and I am convinced that the closing of Lin-
law is gratifyj:hg and timely, for it is an coin School, conjoined with free bus trans-
antidote to g hose familiar ii}stances where portation for former pupils there to other
Federal cou> decrees have been flaunted by schools within the city will have a salutary
high ofHcifs sworn to uphold the law. influence in securing true equality of edu-
Obstrup'tion. delay, and unrest have char- cational opportunity for all parties before
acterizet much of our national struggle this court. This proposed modification,
against' educational and racial inequality. Which would eliminate paragraph 7 of the
But this small northern community-- original order decreeing that Lincoln trans-
whose population, composed of various
races and religions, might represent our Na-
tion in microcism-has provided this Na-
tion with an example and a model of sound
public leadership.
Indeed, the immediate and energetic ef-
forts of the school board to comply with
this court's mandate might well be viewed
as a precursor of the widely acclaimed posi-
tion taken only last week by James E. Allen,
Jr., Commissioner of Education for the State
of New York.
The President of the United States, a few
short days ago, registered it plea for an end
to racial strife, mass picketing and protest
meetings which almost inevitably trigger
violence. He urged that the forum for solv-
ing the racial question be shifted from the
streets to the courts. Certainly, that is the
first step. But, as I noted in my original
opinion: "Litigation is an unsatisfactory
July 2
ferees were to provide their own transporta-
tion, is therefore adopted by this cOUrt.
The more fundamental modification of the
decree proposed by the school board is the
deletion of paragraphs 1 and .4-which deal
with the optional transfer plan and the sub-
stitution therefor of a provi$ion designed to
permit the board to xssigq,btudents residing
within the Lincoln district where necessary
to secure or maintain ms cial balance within
the elementary scho CIA system. Such a pro-
vision would :reposed In the board discretion
in the assigninent of pupils in order best to
effectuate the principles announced in the
original opinion of this court. Viewing this
proposed modification in light of the school
board's demonstrated genuine support for
those principles, this court has decided to
so modify its decree. Compliance therewith
will , be insured, if ever necessary, by this
court's continued retention of jurisdiction
way to resolve issues such as have been pre- over "the case, in pursuance to the final para-
sented here. It is costly, time consuming- graph of the decree and to the general princi-
causing further delays in the implementa- 4ples of equity,
can only go so far in inculcating mar ty.
Today, in light of the school board' ap-
pearance before this court, I feel eve more
is ill-equipped to control day-td-day prob-
lems of educational policy, bl$t by private
citizens, men of good will, }epared to act
affirmatively in pursuance our basic law
and with a devotion to community better-
the amended decree entered this day.
And so, as the board in its "Comprehen-
sive Plan for :Educational Excellence-A Re-
port to All Citizens of New Rochelle," dated
May 14, 1963, stated: "The eyes of the entire
Nation are fixed upon our community and
received national attention." The Nation
Our special difficulties have received national
will now observe how men of compassion and
foresight havef aced up to the racial problem
of their community and withc enrage un-
dertaken the task of solving it.
IRVING R. KAUFMAN,
U.S. Circuit Judge.
SHIPWORK CHEAPER IN PRIVATE
YARDS
Mr. BREWSTER. Madam President,
I ask unanimous consent to insert in the
RECORD an article which appeared in the
Boston Globe, June 9, 1963, and which
was entitled "Shipwork Cheaper in Pri-
vate Yards."
The author, Allen M. Smythe, is a rep-
utable financial writer. His article ex-
plains the efforts made to change the
congressional mandate requiring that
private shipbuilding firms handle 35 Per-
cent of naval vessel repairs and thus
save 20 to 30 percent in cost to the tax-
payers.
Madam President, the private ship-
building industry of this Nation is in a
slump; yet our defense officials, rather
than aid our hard-pressed private yards,
prefer to have all work done in naval
shipyards operated by the Government.
I hope that my colleagues will examine
is problem carefully and give thought
as follows:
SHIPWORK C
The survey, made under a-$197,000 Navy
contract issued to Arthur Anderson & Co., a
New York auditing flxm, was expected to fur-
nish cost data to influence congressional leg-
islation. The Navy wants Congress to elim-
inate a proviso: in the appropriation bill that
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