QUESTIONS RELATED TO SECRET AND CONFIDENTIAL DOCUMENTS

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP91-00966R000800020007-6
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 44
• Document Creation Date: December 20, 2016
• Document Release Date: November 14, 2006
• Sequence Number: 7
• Publication Date: October 12, 1973
• Content Type: REPORT

Appendix 3
03n Cuxcr= SENATE ( REPORT
1st rye.?.sio ti -No. 93-466
QUESTION'S RELATED TO SECRET AND CONFIDENTIAL
DOCUMENTS
SPECIAT. COMMITTEE TO STUD V QUESTIONS RELATED TO SECRET
AND CONFIDENTIAL GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS
Itt accordance with the provisions of S. Res. 13, the Special Com-
mittee to Study Questions Related to Secret and Confidential Docu-
ments submits the following report and recommendations.
The Committee was aided in its wvorrk by the Legislative Reference
Service of the Library- of Congress and wishes to commend Mr.
Robert Lauck and \Ir. David Sale of . that service for their
contributions.
This report covers questions relating to (1) access to classified
information by Members of Congress, (2) legal rights of an individual
Senator with respect to classified documents in his possession, (3) legal
rights of a Senate Committee with respect to classified documents in
its possession, (4) legal rights of individual members with respect to
documents on information received from foreign emissaries, (5) the
declassification of documents in the possession of an individual
member, (6) pending bills and proposals for Congressional machinery
to oversee classified information natters and (7) recommendations by
the Committee.
1. ACCESS TO CLASSIFIED INFORMATION BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), Pub. L. S9-4S7, SO Stat.
250, 5 U.S.C. 552, amending the Administrative Procedure Act,
(5 U.S.C. 551, et seq.), enunciates a policy of public disclosure and
access to information generated by Federal agencies. ?
Beginning with the access problem in the context of the Freedom
of Information Act, the first two questions are: (1) What limitations
tire provided by the Act on public disclosure of classified information?
and, (2). do these limitations apply to Members and committees of
Congress?
 Approved For Release 2006/11/14: CIA-RDP91-0Q966R000800020007-6
that deci:'-on might have been." The Committee ~tlg~ests that the
rlachiner?: be set up for c11iestiorung in an orderly manner these
executive C?ciiions to classify for reasons of National security, and
we urge the Government Operaitions Committee to give priority con-
sideration to bills.now pending before it and discussed herein designed
to accomplish this objective. We make no detailed evaluation of these
bills, leaving that to the.judgment. of the substantive committee but
urge that a complete overhaul of the classification system be under-
Th
e --
I i.
lias c as-ified documents in his possession, prior to his disclosure of
those documents, wits discussed by- the Committee.
The Committee recommends that individual members who have
such documents and wish to disclose them, consult Frith the Senate
Ethics Committee prior to such disclosure.
The Committee wines to snake it clear that although it recom-
mends consultation with the Ethics Committee, any determination
by the Ethics Committee would not be binding onothe member. The
reason for the recommendation of consultation is to permit a member
the opportunity of getting the additional thinking and precedents
ayjil;~ble to him before making a final decision regarding disclosure.
io.-lc inc. the Senate the overall sums requested for each separate
intelligence agency. The release of such sums would provide members
with the rulnlmal int'orination they should have about our intelligence
operations. Such information would also end the practice of inflating
certain budget figures so as to hide intelligence costs, and would in-
sure that all members will know the true cost of each budget item
they must vote upon.
Accordingly, the Committee recommends that the Appropriations
Committee itemize in the Defense Department Appropriations bill
the total sums proposed to be appropriated for intelligence activities
by each of the following agencies: Central Intelligence Agency, De-
fense Intelligence agency, National Security Agency, National Re-
connaissauce Office and any separate intelligence units within the.
Army, Navy, and Air Force. The Committee does not request that any
line items be revealed.
The Committee also recommends that the committee reports indi-
cate the total number of personnel to be employed by each of the
above agencies. The Committee does not request any information
about their duties.
n
 ?
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 Approved For Releas 2006/11/14 :CIA-RDP91-0.09668000800020007-6
Appendix 5 94-
June ', 197 CONGR.ESS10NA1 sc)rtrv~ -,,,,may,,, y
If I rxn_ X23 Leal :. .
House conferees, even u it cla not Hui- -
we would be at least thi-tic, a full development of all the facts Diondare
the conf A erence,
ointin' soalethln? that needs to. b2 to give the Congress a choice among Abourezc Humphrey
?~ sk:e
o innhasized in this age, because alternatives, if it has altern aaves before BB.ath den Loa S Jackson- Mondale
day
one day we will have to convert from it,, is the best way to do- it. . -_ Brooke Magnusoa Nelson
hopefully. I hope we can Seep this bill a t;,;i.itary Church Mansfield - Pastore
The to peace. prat'-. Hdo we do , !a. k Mathias Pell
Gravel 2ScGovove~.. Rtb!coS
Do we just sit as I The big 4'=motion 3s. How do "w Well we and g t itlintol law as soon as we Lcan, rield McGovern. Ribicoiker
see' _t' -say,
will just wait and d see- :.car the Govern- and pave the way for appropriations. I Hughes Metcalf William
t if the authorization. col: mit- 21AYS-55
th
a
know
meat is going to do appal it"?
nce to- the Rhode island tees do not meet those time demands, 41ken pole I~Setzenbaum
Domentct
ide
f
d
. Allen
ere
as
With re
Baker Pearson
situation, we tried to go down and see our work is going to be brushe
ESTDLrG O:FIC ? The.time Dominick
ired Bartlett Eagletoa Percy Proxmire
the President .for a long time and ' we The PR h
Eastland
e c
Randolp
p
as
._ could not do it. ~~ e were told the day of the Senator Beall
before the order came out cutting Our -- Mr. STENNIS. I yield myself. 1 adds- Bennett Ervin ._:: - Randolph
Bentsen- Fannln_ Scott, Hugh
in tallation Scott,
ss. Only the day before did tional the atnnrooriations will be made Bible Fong
uble Goldwater NGi111an1L.
be 60 clu ;;-~o-
vin Laird. I tried to Snd out from Ad- and we will e pleas Harry F.. Jr. Hansen Stevens
nliral Zumwalt. I ivied to find out from about it. Byrd, Robert C. Haskell Stevenson...
+ol ?s what I. think we do render a service I am cannon helms Ta=t
t
- ., - -mnac Talmadge
e
h at
We never knew of it until the axe came a , - - - Cotton Wetcker
down and. chopped oft our economic So let us tkl,np ait what it is t ~n bill fort 9lcClellan o begin military Curtis McClure - Young -.
T1
without Federal help. But. the time has. - - r , i amen
come when we have to thin' about these far as. we are concerned oa this side, we Mr. - ~gOrD, I move to lay- that
- ,,: - +., ripiri lnaw : min time if the ..,,.+;.,,, nn flip ta_bie_ _
ld
stated. I realize. this is not the complete y1e _-a y tr`?ht Keaaedy Symington
answer..I realize it may not survive the Otherwise Lam willing to yield back the Hartke?. McGee - `.'-Tenney Har to express its -
conference. But surely the Senate ought ti The PRESIDING OFFICER
..T'he Sen- So Mr. McGovza::'s, amendment
It is not going g to (No,.
sentiment-, o-. affect aff 1347) was ect my. State a --ator from Mississippi has 1.2. minutes re- rejected-
~~ ST `TNIS. i fT. President, I move
great deal. It. may - affect-.one? or two maining The - ' Senator from South
reconsider the vote. by which the
plants. Perhaps we can reconvert them Dakota has 5 minutes. remaan- .
IDgtiTO,ip Mr President, so anent was rejected.
Mr. President, I.am very amenable to suing Year. Bellmore
Mr. OOa
.this amendment for the reasons I. have Mr. President,.I yield the floor. I will* Brock ton_ I uoudle'Lan- Pesch
n time an, Senator -wishes: Javits Sparkrnaa.
ire are not over the agony yet. hardware an _ Hathaway -;'atoss ?
and nave a slily V- - -
gram, without knowing what jobs they yield back the remainder of my time. ..- The PRESIDE G OFFICER (;%1r.._ .
are going to give these people after they The PRESIDING O CER All time :eouREZlc).Under. the- previous cyder,
that has having been yielded back, the question the-Senate will now proceed to the con-- -
t
i
ng
h
is is some
are trained Tn is on agreeing to the amendments num- f the
by the ae rdfrom No consin
done ~I would hope azicech a, proposal would bered. 1347 by the Senator from South S'deration
blcGovEF^r) ? The yeas and 1the Sena
- the clerk-will'.
T
which
Dakota (lair
0 -
.
-
r?
I can say
receive serious consideration. (f
.the nays. have been ordered, and the clerk ?
state
-
d on
d
.. ,
-
.
e
this as one; who has depen
Pentagon and the Defense. Department. will ~call the rollQ - -- - ca - --- : -. -?_' The assistant legislative clerk read-as--
---iv r1pr1z
follo
with. the.Senator- from South Dakota Mr. ROBERT C. -Byi'"C? I announce the appropriate place- is the bill. in-.At
from California (Mr.
'
t
or
iouows:
that the Sena
(Mr. tilcGovzRllr) with reference to some ew anew as- of the cuts he -wanted . to make: in de- - CRuursTOV) ,. the- Senator from Arkansas srt a ne .se aectitlobnefore ?.Sarch 1 etch year
...r HT~the Senator from . ?, . -,,,.+,,n, o Central Intelligence shall
.
1
' -3
Tfrua3to,ln) more than I have been on Ivlau12- C%rr. _X1AT W.%Y ' e
the side of the Senator from South Da- from Kentucky (Mr. HtiDDLESTO'N), the ; to the Congress pursuant to section 201 of
t f m IiaG"iii (Mr TsrouY), the the Budget and Accounttng Act of 1921.(31-,..
ca ro- -
a n
o
I
ator from Mississippi (M'Ir. STJ.Nh-LS) and
the Senator from South- Carolina (Mr. - Indiana-CMr. HAR=), the Senator from Congrere disclo g the total an ountt- o
th -Qenator funds requested in. the budget,.tranamitted
p
na
u-s.o. ii), for the national
Kota, but this proposal ought to be. given_ Sena.or r
r fn Senator from Massachusetts (Mr. K 7_T-
sm for the next succeeding fiscal year;-!
rEDY), the Senator iiuut- viyvu- o .-,
voteforit CER. The ti~rle-h
The PRESIDING OFFI
(Mr
from Utah
t
.
or
The PRESIDING OFFICER. R fig . ~icGEE) , the Sena
.. Moss): the Senator from Alabama (Mr: for debate on this amendment shall be
yields time?
Mr. STENNT_-S. Mr-'President,.I yield SPA AN), and the Senator from Cali- limited. to 3 hours, to be. equally divided.
myself 1 minute. forma. (Mr. TUNNEY) are necessarily ab- between and controlled by the mover of -
the amendment and
I appreciate very much the problem sent. the manager of the
Rhode Island had at a time when I was. ?. I also announce that the Senator from- bill, with 30 minutes on any amendment --
i ,Hain SYtit^rczo'r) Is absent be- in the second degree.
r
not active. I read about it in the news- bilssou - Mr. PROKi'tiiLz:E. fir. President, I ask
goer, and it ba my interest, and i Cause of i1-mess. -
p' M . v . I l3~ t the for the yc?S and nays.
rem--m r the vigor wi_ wh_ch the li_
Senator from Rhode ?stand and his col- Senator front Oklahoma (i._. BELL`..ION), The S??as and nays were o_de:-_d.
lea ue opposed It- They did ever,-thing the Senator from Tennessee (Mr. Bsoci ), Mr. PROZ'~II tr E. Mr. President, be-
anyone could do to try to alleviate that the Senator from New York (Mr.JAvFrs), fore I yield to the distinguished Senator
situation. But with all deference to my the Senator from Oregon (Mr. PACK- from-Mississippi- which I shall. do in. a
friends, I do not b lieve such an amend- ScooD), and the Senator from Delaware moment, I would like to call the atten-
xnent on this bill is a solution to the (Mr? Rorer) are necessarily absent. _ tion of the Senate, while some Senators
problem. I t i^-, legislative-wise, it The reslfltwas announced-yeas 27, ware hat this amendment does is provide a
?r,nrre, r1 Pnr RcI ieP 7flfifi/11114('IA-Rr)Pa1_maFERnrtn8OOn2nnn7_'e
 =..Approved .Eor Release 2006/11114,: CIA=RDPg1-00956Rb6dsto020?07=6.
-95-
9602 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD SENATE J2ane . , 1974
~ that the CIA is au-
ar` of what has been requested by Son- i^tel Bence Program effectively white Section 6 states
:tars ScoTT and :.>..r:sFI~D of Senator !,has been worth to us billions and billions thorized to transfer to and receive from
:_?CCLELLAI when they wrote him last sand billions of dollars in savings. But, if other Government agencies any money
November, and what. in rrly judgment, we are going to abandon the idea of approved by the Bureau of the Budget
Senator MCCLIMLAN maid t=en he would keeping these figures from being dis- authorized under the National-Security
to do if he can. I sham' just read that closed, then, in my humble opinion, we Act of 1947. -
;e ;er, and then lave the matter in the might- as well abolish the agency. It According to tae Of;iee of Mana>eme-t
bands of the Senator from. Mississippi. ywouid be like saying, in effect, that we and Budget; the transfer of funds to
This is the letter dated November 15, ,do not want this secret intelligence after CIA under section 6 of the CIA Act is
1373, signed by the majority and minor- Jall, that we do not need it, -and that we accomplished by the issuance of Treas-
i:y leaders: ;will abandon it. - ury documents -routinely used for the
As Co-chairmen of the Senate Select Com- We will pay an awful price for that. transfer of funds from one Government
mittee on Secret and Confidential Docu- I am familiar-with'the CIA budget. agency to another. The amount and
ments. we wish to caU your attention to one I can satisfy most any Senator in the timing of these -transfers are approved
of the major re--onuifendations which our cloakroom.- talking to him some about by OTB... - - -
Committee made with respect to the opera,- this, but I will publicly say that it is a -The funds approved for transfer to
:Sons of ? the various intelligence agencies, clean budget and they have justified CIA by OMB are. limited to. amounts
s?eciricauy. it w:v's, agreed that the Senate many times over the expenditure of the notified to Oh9B by the chai^Y en of the
should be provided with the over-ali''sum money. ". . Senate and House Appropriations Co.r..'i-
requested for each agency. We believe that t
t--e release or this limited information will Mr. -PRO1 =. Mr. President,-.I ..raittees. The specif;c appropriations ac-
b? useful to the Senate in maintaining the thank the distinguished Senator from counts from which the funds will be
necessary support for our intelligence open- Mississippi transferred are also-.determined by th:;
aeons. Mr.. President. how much does the process. "Obligations after -the transfer
We do wish to reiterate that the Commit United States spend each year on the are further controlled by Obffi through
t..e did not recommend the disclosure 'of any intelligence budget? Except for asmall -the apportionment process.
pgzticular intelligence activity or any other-
such handful of Senators and Congressmen, In other words, only two men in the
your J urissaic- nobody knows, at least in- this 'cou-rltz-g. entire Congress - of the United States
,-mein, detaiand led pedroperly matters, so, which under continue
My amendment would end this ignor- control the process by which the CIA is
eon , . ?.
I have talked with the majority leader ante and allow the Congress to reassert ' funded:.: -=.= - :?- _ o&_- to the_American peo- made the recommendation which is em-
-Of course, this detailed information is pie a great deal more than might. be con- bodied in the amendment I am, present-
valuable to the U.S.S 1 But long ago, a i'enient from the narrow intelligence point ing to the Senate today and on which- -
decision was made that in our open so- of view. we will vote a little later.
ciety it was better to know the facts and Mr. Colby`s two points should be kept I hope that the Members of the Senate
ride herd on the Defense". Department in mind. First, he left it up to Congress. will recognize that this is a matter that
than to accept. the intangible fear. of Second, he said we have to run our in- has been studied by the select com__.' it-
enemy knowledge. : telligence agencies in a democratic en- tee; that they did make this recom.
that the present Secretary
ti
n
d
;
a
o
vi.ronment. Both of these points argue men
In fact, many American . strategists.
.
^..._,.^, .. . .. of Defense, who was formerly Director;--.I
.. . .. tt_
TT t
......
e
his
e
the United States has these weapons.::::; Ing even the aggregate total of .the in, - releasing the total -figure. They could
-The - same -goes for the intelligence telligence community budget.- .: - live with that, provided there was no
budget. It is a form of deterrence for the During the confirmation, he said, breakdown of the components...
potential adversary to know that we will I would favor a gre-ater degree of exposure .-Mr. President, I reserve the remainder
continue. to spend sizeable funds for if l- of what we are doing {p. 18). .- of my time, and I yield the floor.
psychology of deference. 'lne enemy wiu. du in- anti after conlrma>ion hearings. age, if any, would be minimzi and that.
not be deterred unless he truly believes Now Mr. Colby argues against naiads- they saw strong arguments-in favor of
telligence..They -will be less. inclined to : Now he says he does not think At, wou,u ue
spring some surprise----., :. ? a good
Of course it should be-quickly said that Mr. Colby further explained why 'he
. the. only figure we.would be releasing is, opposes such, a course of action. Quoting.
the single number representing the com-_. from a February 22, letter, Mr. Colby
bind intelligence budget. -Not a break
down.: Just -the overall-figure.
. Now just what would this tell our ad-
versaries? They would not know if it all
went to the CIA, or DIA. Whether the
NSA spent most of the money,. or the Air
. How about yearly fluctuations? Say for
example, that the budget went up 10
percent in 1 year. What what they con-
elude? That manpower was more expen-.
sive? That the CIA .was spending more
for Laos? That- the DIA had bought a
new computer division? That NSA was
hiring more _people? - hey would know
nothing.
Listen to what former- CIA Director
James R. Schlesinger told Senator HARRY
F. BYRD, JR., during his confirmation
CoMbxr= oN APPROPSSIATrO_-;S '
Washington, D .,C, April 8, 1974.
Hon. RAY M. ASH,
Director, Office of Management and Budget,
.. - Wc.hingtor., D.C. - - ..
DEAR, pia. Ass: Under the authority of the -
1949 Central Intelligence Agency Act, the CIA
is authorized to transferfunds to and receive
funds from other Government agencies sub-
ject to the approval of your o.?1ce. This-au-
thority is granted without regard to other
provisions of law.
Would you please provide answers to the
following questions dealing with this prat
tice.- - - -
1. Is there any other authority for this
transfer or receint of funds other than in the
194-9 CIA-Act; Section 6? If so, where?
. 2. As Chairman of the iTtiD? Space, Science,
Veterans and Independent Agencies Subcom-
mittee of the Senate Appropriations Com-
mittee,I request you to make known to n:e
if any of the funds appropriated under my
jurisdiction have been transferred to or ex-
pended by or on behalf of the CIA? '
r, .z _
:. hearings for Secretary of Defense: - ---- person who says that the release of this 3. Will you please describe the process by
fi I think It (speaking of releasing selected total budget will -endanger national which funds are transferred from one appro-
Intelligence budget-data) might be an ac-.-- security. How -will it do so? Why did priation-account to use by the CIA?
grams. I wouia not persona iy aavocace ic, ouu desired of how such disclosure would LL... ?
.It may be an acceptable procedure ... There 5. What restrictions are paced on this
Is the' feeling that it might be Rise to give work against us. How is the total intel- transfer or expenditure of funds? -
the gross figure. I have come to share that - ligence budget figure different from the 6. Why cannot the CIA budget be funded
feeling at least in this time frame, but that total military budget? Is it more im- in a single appropriations bill?
does not say that is not a possibility. - portant - than a $100 billion defense I would appreciate an early answer to these
anti in
t' h aria are cu
s
inca a
". Senator Brar specifically asked:
says:
I am still concerned that public disclosure
lot total intelligence figures on -an _ annual
)basis would lead to pressures for further
0 public explanation of the programs for which
monies were appropriated..:'...: _ .:.. _ ... -
That is the real reason for not
,releasing the budget. It will allow Con-
gress to start doing its job. Questions
;will be asked. There will be pressure on
the oversight committees to very closely
review that budget and justify it thor-
oughly, so that they in turn could come
`back to Congress and say we are getting
;our money's worth. ?
There is-something very healthy.about
responding to public pressure-even for
the intelligence community. - -
The question must be asked of every
.
- y
g
budget? Are the Armed Services Com- ques togs s
mittees violating security by reviewing progress'
the Defense .budget in public? - Sincerely,
gyp,,,; , Pxxa,
These questions need answering by -U.S. Senator.
those that support continued secrecy of
Ity concerns are minimal..The component I hope answers are forthcoming. nscr, OFFICE OP MA_AO5.-T
figures, I would be more concerned about but :Mr. President, this amendment- is the AND sync`-T,
for the ross national iniel:':genee-nrogra-^t Wnt'u , D.C., A ` "9, 1974. -
g most restrained attempt to in troduce "~tOn
tigures I think we cou:d lire that on a. rascal in .,+z ri~ t-y to the i^tell- Bence corn- . Hon. 54z z+sr osx ,
security basis,.yes. Committee crl alryroarc: ors, L' 5a zate, .
It is mitten to take into con-
munitJ
.
Washt;tgton,D.C.
Remember that this was the Director sideration the possibility of security "-DEAR SENATOR I noxious: This responds to
telligence, he replied: operated in the dark too long, classified by the Director of Central Inteuh-
s_~
o
ac
executive bran pro ue e
When the same question was put to It is a long overdue step toward re- foreign intelligence operations In which the
WilL'alli E. Colby during his confirmation asserting the right of Congress to inquire CIA enga?es. With r pect to the budget, Sii-
Senate prorides. V security considerations. been taken by both the Congress and the
t t n 'titiv
e
t
t
of . Central Intelligence testifying, the problems. It only calls for the release-of your letter of April 8, 3974, in which you pose
man who then was the CIA Director. He the total figure. several questions regarding the- funding of
is now the Secretary of Defense. This is It is time we found out just how large the Central Intelligence Agency.
exactly what the amendment before the tl t budget is It will not i-npin e on As you know, extraordinary measures have
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -SENATE d wine 4, 1.7 1.4
S 9EQ-~ .
ice in order to assure that this sensitive The PRESIDING OFFICER is there Dulles, of the Central Intelligence Agen-
first
time? he might not ~? r-J3:e s-a"~:e to ob he C::aii'rears none, and it ~oi?country and my oe untiy c_You ould save
s ection.e T
ge
any foreigga government. never:^e:ess, the Oi- is so Ordered
See of i.ianagement and Budget exer-ses The clerk will call the ~i1 a lot-of money if we could get together."
second assistant legislative tier' Do Senators know what he meant by
its responsibility to review CIA fe^dt- u the
The
same detail a that it review the bud a get nc, proceeded to call the roil. - that? He meant by that that they are -
spy on. them.
nd
The eats specffic amounts of the anya mour esecnive bra.=Ch e President, a
appropriation request and the ~identi- unanimous consent that tthe order for the That can beaid publicly, y because that
quorum call be rescinded. is what this is all about. We have to know
Oration of the n annual a get,estimates in
the President's annuual B Budget, within which The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without what they are doing, so we can 'now
objection, it is so ordered. what we have to do in order to guarantee
these amounts are included, are formally
e,
provided by the Director of OMB to the. Who yields time? the security of our own country.
ons Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President, will the so we cannot come out here and tell
Chairmen of the Senate and House Appro-
Is i i d by tlue sie or of OMB to th
Director of Senator yield me 5 or 10 minutes? the whole world, "We spent $1 billion or Centa- the CIA budget, and OMB approval of the Mr; STENNIS. I yield 10 minutes to the $2 i yono for -thew fhat al
mean Intelli.-eanynce
-
ester of funds to CIA Is based upon this Senator.
-decision. -' NLr. PASTORE. Dlr. President, what I one eLe, except that perhaps some people
within the limits of this --arrangement lave to say will not take 10 minutes. think. they are spending too much. And
mane necessary by security reguuementis Z I must recognize the sincerity and the the minute the question is-asked where
wish to respond fully Lathe question raised . njbtive i I might :ay the noble motive. they are spending it we are-in serious
in your letter. on the part of the sponsors - of this trouble.
proves 1. The the transfer authority of under funds to which CIA OMB _ for its ns amendment and what they a- re trying to So what happens to your, children and dren
. Mr - hap-
approved budget USC . T Section 5 of the CIA Act -thacco ink a anyh tter has disturbeeddyMedmb not peens two you when you igo home tonight?
of f 1949 our knowledge. u
ed' who are charged with this responsibility What happens tomorrow? 'What hap--
other er authority thority is s now w or or ever has been n used
by ONIB for this purpose. As in the case of more than this matter;- with respect to pens to the security of ' our country?
other executive agencies, CIA receives other. the ramifications and the Complexities Can? we afford to tell them? Oh yes, I.
orny funds Act (3 USC curs provisions1 which the so-cpalled its the Etone that are involved in this kind of aitua- would like to tell the public everything it
purchase of s services one szgancy ikon is possible to tell them. I believe in that.
from ant aotthser when it Ls m mo o upplies re by one economical from another ito I would pray for the day* in this world I have been in public life continually for
do so. The magnitude of these transactions is when nations could live hasthPm- when mi l c to know. believe in the
certainly would
ac 2. Excep fun have been transferred to that we could live in pe-aut; i uu
, no the CIA from any of the agencies falling ity, and that we would not even need a you that. I would not tell you how-far
under the jurisdiction of the .HIID, Space, Central Intelligence Agency. our oulducle subs
tell you hare ow able can t I
Science, Veterans and Independent Agencies But the world is not made that way. not t and I would not tn detect t an.
Subcommittee of the Senate Appropriations The history within my lifetime has enemy sub;
Committee. - - - - proved pretty much that unless a nation they might detect ours. I would not tell
3. The transfer of funds to CIA under is on its guard; as we had to be in 1952 you that. Why would I not tell you that?
Section 5 of the CIA Act is accomplished by at the time of the. Cuban crisis, it could I would not tell- you that because the
the issuance of Treasury documents roll-
finely used for, lose its birthright. minute I told you that I would jeopardi
the transfer of funds from
one government agency to another. The Now, what are we talking about here? the future of your children. -talking
not
connectted this ad hoc committee 1 res II h_appen Lto be-
y on &uant amount and timing pprove by OMB. pur- We - gence eA ency. I have Central
4. I to that Act, are e app g
4. Information concerning the transfer- of with the Joint Committee on Atomic on it. We sit there for hours and hoir-s.
these funds to CIA is available to members of Energy almost as long as I have been in day in and day out. It is not a pleasant
the senate and House Armed Services and the Senate. Day in and day out we sit be- job, but it is a job that was assigned to
with CIA is matters. Subcomn'itrees concerned hind closed -doors in a room that has me -and I have to do -it. If anyone wants
with CI been debugged because of what is told, my job on that particular committe-
approved 5. Under by S established procerures, ? funds what is given to the committee, and what I will give it to him tomorrow. But it
rads to CIA are
limited toamaunt amounts notified no ttified to OMB by. the is listened to. Only the members of that. has been assigned to me and I have_
-1-p privy .to what on, ex do I repeat again that I realize the mo-
Chairmen of the Senate and House Appro- committee
priation accouaw_+- ..... - ~.
be transferred are also determined by this hers of congress if they make a request
Obligations by CIA, subsequent to that they need to know. The same goes
s
.
proces
the transfer, are further controlled by ONiB for the Central Intelligence Agency. I
through the apportionment ' daresay if any Senator really wants to
le
i
'
ng
a s
6. The funding of CIA throughrough
publicly identifiable appropriation could re- know how much we spend for intel i-
sult in the disclosure of information detri- Igence, he could find out. But then they
mental to the agency's sensitive foreign in- 3would have to reveal what they spend it
telliggence operations. as I understand the 1for. They might not be able to publish the
--, --L.. _L-OA +ho.,7 \xrhq?
to members of the Congress ou ~ Y-- - iwould it accompusn-r not and must not burn dot n the ba-a:
casions.
I trust that the above iiformatton is re- I do not know the men and women up we came out here and say. "This is
:re 'y;n
sponsice tn'pot.r . rds in that Pre-'s Gallery. For all I know, the arno;:_n+ of money we are
"
Sincerely, there may be a newspaperman these from
Roy I,. Asia, Moscow. We live in a free society, and Very well: after it has been i- t d, i n~n
Director. what we say on the floor of the Senate what? Someone else says; "You are
The PRESIDING OFFICER.. Who goes-all over the world- It is a public spending too much." In order to per.-e
yields time. e record- That is the way we live. We are that too-much is not being spent, sl f--
1,;r, 'I'F=.iO'_r-D. I~fr. 'P-esident, I an open society. if we tell the Russians ments have to be made as to where it is
spent, what we are doing. The big
suggest the absence of a quorum. what they have to know, will UT ey tell being question is, Can we afford to tell them
The PRESIDING OrFICER..On whose us what they have? I will eat Fmy anyone's what we are doing?
time? - hat on the Capitol steps if that happens.
1%1r. THIIRMOtiD. The time to be Do Senators know what Krlshchev I have been in many committee meet-
said when he came here and met with Mr. ings--the Joint Committee on Marlin
equally divided between both sides. . ,_
Ar+r+rnuari r Pnlnaca 0t1fR/11114 - (:IA-Rf1PQ'I-ffl P(IofRffl02ff07-6
Live vein-uu ,,- -- - some
people are a little distu-rbed over
things that CIA has done. That needs to
be investigated, and that is our job, and
we are doing it every day. -
But as the Senator from Minnesota
has said on this floor a hundred timer:
Please do not throw out the baby witha-
the bath water. That is the point. In o' r
 Energy, the Committee on Appropria- ' charge to do its job. But in the name of Presently we are on a binge in this
tions, and on t* e ad hoc committee to truth, in the name of protecting this country about every aspect of govern-
which I refe-red--where they show us Nation against an assault, in the name of merit. Everything is suspect. Well, Mr.
the evidence they have. But they do not protecting the American people and their President, you have got to call a halt to
disclose how they spend money to Pro- future, let us rely on the special corn- something. You cannot just start to dis-
vide this inform ation. Once the Russians, mittees that do their job, and if any mantle the structure because of the
or even the Chinese Communists Sind out Member of the Senate really wants to transgressions, or alleged transgressions,
our national security cars be damaged. find out what the total amount is, I think of a few.
t ld . - ? I think that the Senator from Rhode -
b
T y n : r,- CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -SENATE
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98
emotional rebellion that is jiffs i led on
the grounds that an agency has made
some mistakes. Can we throw away the
security of the country? That is what it
means to me.
I have sat down with the Senator from
Wisconsin (Mr. PROxsIIRE), the Senator
from California (Mr. CRANSTON). to find
a solution, and I have sat do.:-n with Mr.
Colby, who is a great American. He said,
."Please -do not do this. If you, want to
make.my job easier, please do not -do
this." I cannot sit-there after that ad-
. around and say, "Mr. Colby,. I do not
.believe what you have to say." If I be-
lieved that for 1 minute, I_ would .say,
"You ought to give up your job."
I know the CIA got mixed up in Viet-
e o
in private ne shoudu
Mr. HUMPN.REY. Mr. President, will Island stated it so succinctly and so ef-
the Senator yield? fectively that all I can do is just add my
Mr. PASTOR E. I yield. - amen to it; but I had the privilege of
Mr. HU MP:REY. Mr. President, I - serving on the National Security Council,
rise to commend the Senator from Rhode and 17, ant to tell my colleagues that the
Island and to associate-myself fully with Central Intelligence Agency was the most .
his comments. The senator pointed out accurate and effective instrument of
very. properly that the Central Intelli- Government for that council. Its reports.
gence Agency has in the past engaged in were most accurate, and had we followed
activities that have been looked upon by the advice of the Central Intelligence
certain-Members-of the Congress as un- Agency in many areas, we would have,
desirable; but I want to make it clear been better off, but at least it was there.:
that every one of those activities had - I know the Senator from Wisconsin is -
been ordered by a President.- The Cen- going to say he is not going -to interfere
tral Intelligence Agency does not, just with them, and that is true, but the
engage in activities for the love of work. figure will be out there,?and right away
I know that the Central Intelligence there will be some of my political per-
Agency, during the Kennedy years and suasion, who are labeled "liberals." who
the Johnson years: was engaged in ac- are going to say, 'Weil, look at how much.
t
L
i
:
oo
ng.
money they are spending on spy
at how much money they are spending
-on gathering information which is un-
necessary. Look at what they are going
to do on counterfore activities or clan-
destine military activities.'
If the Congress does not want It to
engage in clandestine activities, all it has
to do is legislate it-they will obey the
law. But the trouble around here is that
we like to put the blame on a lot of other
people when we do not have the guts to -
legislate what we ought to be legislating.
Mr. PASTORE. Mr. President,. will the
Senator yield?
Mr. HUMPHREY. I yield
Mr. PASTORE.' Talking about the
amendment, it sounds so harmless to say,
"All we want is the overall figure."
When we discussed this with Mr. Colby
.and asked hiai, "What is wrong with the
overall figure?" he told us, "There is a lot
wrong with it, because if you choose- to
cut the figure down at some time, pri-
vately . and secretly, and I have to live
with it, nobody knows what is done, but
if you do it publicly, then the Russians
and the Chinese Communist will know
nam. Many got mixed. up in Vietnam. \ tivities in Laos----
I condemned it. The PRESIDING Or FICER. The time
Do not forget, I was Governor of my -of the Senator from Rhode .Island has
State when the bomb fell on Hiroshima -expired. -
on August 6, 1945. A few days after that Mr- THURMMOND. Mr. President, I
a second atomic bomb fell on Nagasaki. yield such time as the Senator may re-
Frankly, Ihave not slept so well since quire.
then thinking about the horror that can Mr. PASTORE. Five more minutes. -
be visited upon -mankind if tits thing Mr. HUMPIH?EY. There were Mem-
.ever lets go. I would hope that the CIA bers of Congress who knew full well what
is not a provocative agency but a pro- we were doing, but at the time we
ht thing
th
ri
.
g
e
tective agency; that it is there to pro- -thought we were doing
tect American security and the.Ameri- Hindsight is so marvelous, is it not? We
can people. The minute. we disbelieve see so much better after the fact.
that we should do away with it entirely. Mr. President, the Central Intelligence
. I repeat again that as long as we live Agency is possibly the most important
In this kind of a world, where tomorrow agency in this Government. By and large,
we do not know where we will be, where -it is made up of people who are corn-
the Russians now are trying to achieve petent, able, and who have served this
parity with us; where we have been told -comitry well and faithfully.. To be sure,
categorically, without any question of there are times when it has engaged in
doubt, that what they are doing is be- 'activities, as we have said, . that are
.cause they do not want to stiff er the hu- looked upon with suspicion; but I think
miliation of Cuba again-that is what it would be folly for. us to publicize all of
this Is all about, and that is why they .its activities, to publicize the amounts-it
are coming along, hell bent for election, receives, particularly when there are
augmenting their military strength. ways and means within this body and
. Look at the deal we made on SALT I. within the other body of Congress to
They can have over 60 missile firing
nuclear subs; we have only a little more
than 40 of this type of submarine. They
have about 1,700 land-based missiles; we
have slightly over 1,000. .
When anyone stands up* and says to
me, "Oh, they are not . going so fast,"
that person is not going to the briefings.
One does not find that information on
+ ,. f?nn.. of 4:,,, Cen-,{n I.:c, h-
fn .Tn fn
supervise it and to keep a check rein we are doing less, and that might let
upon it.. - them become more audacious. They
The Soviet Union does not tell us what. might think we are letting our guard
they spend in intelligence, or even in down. It will have repercussions"
subversion, and they are not-about ready This came from the lips of an expert
to. The only way we have any chance of . in the area, and it makes sense.
knowing what they are doing is through . If I thought giving the overall fib re it
agencies like the Central Intelligence .would be the answer-Ao our problems, I ;
Agency-not alone, but that agency is, -would go along with it, because, after all,
without a doubt, the prime instrument it could be argued, "Well, we are not
the secret briefings. There one sees the' 01 tnis u-overnmenr .or Ule 9ULUCi 1119 u1 giving rue aeLn.lls, uUL,, r- tilt: Cni c
statistics, the facts. I can tell Senators intelligence. said, if we give the overall figure, what.
that after `hey have clone so they "rill I v:as visiting earlier he with our roes it mean.? If an.'oec: t we are t
io
be frightened as to what could happen distinguished f end and colleague from sipendin?g -.)o muc he rill Gar t to
S
to this world if one act of madness lets Washington-and I know this to be a where we are spending it. if F: e are
this thing go off. fact, of course-and discussed the fact spending too little, he will want to lmo::
And so I say to my distinguished col- that there is only one person in the Brit- what we are doing. These are not mat-
league from Wsconsin, and all those who ish Government who knows who the di- ters.that we can discuss before the pub-
agree with hi , 'I sympathize with his rector of intelligence is and to whom that lic for the public. .
realize the fact that the CIA director reports-just one, and that is It does not make any difference to me
feeling. I'
has done some things wrong-perhaps the Prime Minster. In most countries personally. I am interested in my famnil'.
too many things wrong-but let us cor- that is the case. In the Republic of I am interested in my grandchildren. I
rest It. Let us put the brakes on. Let us France and in the Federal Republic of want them to live in a safe country. I do
-admonish the committee that is in Germany it is the case. not want them to live in an unsafe coun-
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c acne CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -SENATE . June', 4, 1974
way.-- not think it would.serve the public in-
Mr. HUMPHREY. It is a .no-.win prop- ought to know,the overall figures.
osition. - - ? -?.. =: Nu'. PASTORE. Does the Senator mean forest for all of that information to have
Mr. JACKSON. I commend the Sen- Russia should know?. been laid out It'-would have destroyed
?? 'ator from Minnesota and the Senator ` IVfr. PRO IRE. Right. our intelligence gathering completely.
from Rhode Island..-. Mr. PASTORE. My goodness, I quit: . I wonder how many Senators realize
Mr. PROXMIRE.. Mr. President, -as Mr. HUMPHREY. Would-the Senator the- unbelievable torture that a number
long as the Senator from Rhode. Island say that it would have been in our na- of our Central Intelligence - agents go
and. the Senator from Minnesota have tional interest in World War II if Frank- through in order to get information that
the floor, I would like to ask them some lin Delano Roosevelt had published how is vital to the Nation's national security.
questions. - -- - . - _; . - much money was invested in the atomic It is because I feel this strongly that I
Mr. PASTORE. I yield. bomb? make this statement, although it runs
Mr. PROXMMIR.E. I ask the Senator if ? Mr. PROXaHRE. Of course not. My counter to much of my so-called ideolog
it Is not true that the amendment does amendment would not require it. 'ical philosophy. One advantage I have
not require the revealing of information Mr. HUMPHREY. I realize whenever had-and I am not going to oe a parti=
or any figure about the CIA, ,but simply we get into any element that is called - san around the Senate when it comes to
the total national intelligence overall secrecy here it is suspect. We are deal- -national security-is to sit on the other
hicluding the CIA the DIA- the ing with national security, and one-has end of the line. I am here to tell the Sen-
h^t if start tot -,l. r with the
t
of the figures without that sticking out _ P. ~?
like a sore thumb. It out privately, but he does not want to building its nuclear subs and the hind
Mr. PASTORE. You cannot win. . ' find it out privately. He wants to. tell the of nuclear subs they were. I saw that ma-
Mr. JACKSON. You cannot win either world about it. - terial in 196 --how far they were along,
Mr PROviIRE I think the world what their scientific prowess was. I' do'
o
an
d
s
now that they were not engaged in in the from Rho e an e-amp
past. We could not allow the publication know about it._ . tog i wheation? for 'et U II^ne, years
o where the Soviet ,was
PASTOR''` The Senator can find ago as -to
i
Mr. PASTORE. I yield. veal it. I can ask about it.
Mr. JACKSON. And what if the fol- Mr. PASTORE. What am I supposed to ought to have a release of the figure.
lowing year the CIA found it necessary do? I cannot tell the Senator; so the Sen- next year it will be whither it is too big
to ask for more money? Then we would ator goes out and says, "Senator Pasxoae or too little, and then it will be what is.
have the same problem. They would would not tell me." - -in it. Then when we start to say what is l
want to know what they. are engaged in Mr. PROF'. No. But the Senator -in it, we are going to have to expose ex-
ther Senators `actly what we have been doing in order
d d
Z
l
nows.
a
e
Mr. JACKSON. Mr. President, will the veal w
Senator yield? Mr. PROX iI.R.E. I do not have to re- But just as surely as we are in this
bodv today debating whether or not we,
try. Other than that, I do not relish the would not get upon the moor of tha 'en- mittees. But there is a point where we
job; I am not trying to keep this away ate and ask how much h-1-her or lower have to stop, at least in m-v judgment.
from the Ame can people. I am con- '.-.e figures are for t is year as compared I know the Senator can make a b.-2-
cerned and interested because that is the to last year? Knowing the Senator from liana argument and a mo:.^_g, emotional
only way we can behave in a c:az world,. Wisconsin, he would be the sst in the argument, that we ought to have all these
and It is a craz', world. Senate to do so. figures right out in the open, and if ri e
Mr. HU-,1PHREY. And It is going to Mr. PROCURE. Would that not be can have a:suraance that is all we are go-
continue that way for some time, regret- good? What would be wrong with that? - lag to do, that is all it would lead to.
tably. Mr. PASTORE. The Senator can re- 'Even that would be a risk, but perhaps
one that we could take
t h
k
h
Army and Navy Intelligence, all together. ate, a we
got to trust somebody. We have a way at intelligence services of this country, we
nd
bit
tl
h
t
li
, a
e
a
t
It Is not an anti-CIA amendment. w
least-of checking here a
- do it at our peril. -
this amendment would do is tell us that check is with the ad hoc committee. -- -. Mr. PRO= P,.E.'-N.r. President, will
whether. we.are spending $1 billion, $5 If that committee does not meet often the Senator yield? -
billion, $10 billion. It would give us some -enough, I suggest we submit an amend- ~.h. HUMPHREY Yes, I yield.
notion of how important this is in terms ment requiring the committee to meet Mr. PRO.XIIIPE: Could not the same I
of resources and would mean we could monthly or to meet quarterly for what- argu .lent the Senator is making be made j
have some attention given to these agen- ever time is-necessary. That is what we with much more force with respect to our
The fact.is, as the Senator frim Mis- I happen to believe that we- need a of _ the r-
:,~. e Senate, we have open public hear--:
tional Security in
n N
i
a
ttee o
ings, we publish a great deal about our
v?I -? -sou.i (Mr. SYMIGTOV) said, that in 1970 Joint Comm
the CIA oversight committee of the Sen- Congress, that is going to have general. missiles, about our submarines, about our
- ate Armed Services Committee met supervision of the CIA, consisting of the most advanced and complex planes. This
twice. In 1971 there were no meetings; top people of Congress, just as we have does give great information to the Soviet
In 1972 It met once. When it does meet, a National Security Council. Union. I am not asking about. anything
'what does it accomplish? It does not I proposed it repeatedly. I proposed a of that nature with respect to intelli-
keep a record. No staff is present. Only Joint Committee on National Security, gence. This would not even reveal how
Senators are present. We know that in which the Members of the Senate and --much we provide for the CIA.
without a staff or a transcript, a hear- the House of Representatives would have . All I am saying is that the taxpayer is
Ing like that cannot be very useful. particular responsibility in the field of entitled to know how much of the bi1-
When we have some knowledge of national secuuty, lions of dollars he contributes in taxes
what this amount is, whether it Is $6- . But my point is, and I think the Sena- goes for intelligence operations overall.
billion, $7 billion, or $10 billion,-we have tor from Rhode Island is so right, the Then he can, through his Pepresenta-
some interest or pressure on this. Not be- minute we publicize all these intelligence fives, determine to some extent whet-her
in.- on the oversight committee, one' figures, the inevitable followthrough Is a - we spend any kind of effort and interest
would be entitled to ask about it, so one debate In this body as. to what It is for, - and concern with whether or not that
would be inclined to be better informed. it will be in every journal and every money is ;,Osely spent.-That is all the
It seems to me we will fu ction far bet- tabloid.-It will be all over. It will not amendment does.
ter. That is all the amendment is in- serve the public interest. tl[ M21-11R.EY. I thhnk: -nr-',erstand
tended to do. If we could get the Soviet Union and 'fully the Senator's honorable, legitimate
-Mr. PASTOR. When the Senator says the Chinese to walk to the altar with the purpose. I really am not opposed to that
there is no record kept, that is true, but rest of us, confess our sins, live a pure ' legitimate purpose. The problem is it is
there is an obvious reason for that.. The life, and pledge ourselves to -peace and sort of like loose string on a ball of twine,
staff is there. The Senators are there. We love, then I would -let them know every- so to speak, that starts to unravel. Now,
sit there for hours, listening, and we have thing about what was going on. But, indeed, we tell the whole world about
a very minute scrutiny of the Items that' frankly, they will not do it. - practically everything we are doing. As
are presented. ? I believe in detente. No Senator has Gunnar Myrdal, the great Swedish rocl-
Is the Senator telling me that if the worked harder for arms control; no ologist, once said about the Un?te.d
entire figure is revealed, at some time he Senator has worked for more open com- States:
dr,r,rrt, ri Gnr RGIGnCP ~nnFr~~i~a r.IA-RnPg1-nngEnRnnnsnnn nnn7-6
 Approved For Release 2006/11/14: CIA-RDP91-00966ROQ0800020
if you really Want to. End out what is cconsin, beca se it. gives L's a chance
wrong. in America, ;roll don't have to do re- really explore what we are doing
'June 4, 1974' CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE
? search: jus: ask anybody and he will give PRO:L'Z'. Mr.
y President. I yield
,you a full hour's disser..azloa
the Senator from Iowa such time as-he.
ness is our strength. I think a society has opposition have 54 minutes remaining.
to have that openness. But I think there Mr. STENNIS. Fifty-four minutes;
are some things in family life that are what about the proponents?
private, that do not aid a good family if The PRESIDLNG OFFICER. The pro-
ARr. PRO?~ffr "e 12.ve a pretty may require. - -
good system. Mr. STENNIS. Before' he does that,
Mr. HUMPHREY. Do. not mis,:n der- will the Senator yield tome to ask how
stand me. ".: much time we have remaining; those in
Mr. PRO -MIRE. It works well It is opposition to the amendment?
open and free. Mr. PRO IRE.Iyield. -
Mr. HUMPHREY. I think this open- The PRESIDING OFFICER. Those in
one starts exposing it all. '
. I think there are some things, may I.
say, in public life called national security,
particularly when it comes to intelli-
gence gathering.. It is a nasty business,
and the Senator knows it and I know it,
and, of course, it makes good headlines,
it makes good stories; it makes good fic-
tion; it makes good TV. But there is a
point, I think, where we have to ask our-
selves, "Do I dare go this far," and that
is all the Senator from Minnesota is do-
ing. -
I really do.-not. intend to, get so in-
owe it to this body to at least tell what
rmZy experience has been, even though I
had no direct responsibility. I only served
as Vice President, but I' happen to be-
lieve that this agency is so important
that we ought to make -sure within the
confines of Congress that we know what
it is doing, and set up the instruments
and men we can trust.
We trust one another in this body on
the basis of -censorship of each other.
One thing I plead for in the Senate is
-more trust rather than our.running to
get the headlines. More love, more affec-
tion in this body; that is what this coun-
try really needs today.:. .
. What I worry -about is that somehow
or other we feel we cannot trust-each
other here. I happen to think-and I
use one Senator, the Senator from Rhode
Island-who is as : much interested in
cutting the defense budget as the Sena-
tor from Minnesota..I want to see that
budget reasonable, and.I want to see it
trimrned. By the way, the committee did
cut It. It cut it so much that some of us
who thought we were going to cut it feel
that they beat us to it.
It is my judgment that we have got to
trust somebody. I think what we are
doing here is trusting somebody.
Mr. McCLELLAN. I might say that at
the same time we cut the defense budg-
et. we also cut this budget more than we
did the defense budget. I will just say
that much for the record.
Mr: H IPH ?EY. There we are. I be-
lieve we have to have :;o.ne p?. ce in this
body where there are some of most-deli-
cate things involved. where we can put
our trust: When we find that trust has
been violated, we can rerno'i'e people
from-those positions.
I do not believe I have any more to
'add and be redundant. I have partic-
ipated In this debate because I feel we
have got to be very, very careful. I wel-
come the initiative of the Senator from
ministration. including the President. of
the United States, who knows precisely
and exactly what the CIA is doing in
every incident. .
'We do know they are involved, as the
Senator from Minnesota has said, in a
nasty busi.-iess. They are involved in a
nasty business in a lot of areas of the
world, and that nasty business is sup-
posedly directed at protecting the free-
dom of the people of this country and
our friends in the free world. But no one
has the certainty to know precisely what
everyone is doing, or even where they are
doing it from time to' time. .
ponents of the amendment have 72 min--" But that is not what we are asking for* utes remaining- - . - -.%-. - today. Not at all. All of this debate that
Mr. PROXIIIPE. Mr. President, I yield I have been listening to, though relevant'.
the.Senator from Iowa-such time as he to the overall intelligence community,
may require. which is certainly involved in the security
Mr." HUGHES. I thank. the distin-- and freedom of the people of the free
guished Senator from Wisconsin. world, not just in our country but that of
Mr. President, the distinguished Sea- the people of -other countries, has no re-
atgr from Minnesota has six guests wait- lationship to the risk involved in giving
ing in the dining room. He has assured the people of this country a glimpse of
me he is not walking out on my dis.er-
tation here today. I assure him that he
is free to go. I value his friendship and
integrity beyond anything he could pos-
sibly know.
The debate I have listened to so far
seems to carry an implication that this
amendment is a threat to the internal
workings of the CIA and the intelligence
gathering community of America around
the world, and thereby a threat to the
security of the-United States of America.
The amendment is very simple, Mr.
President. It would list publicly the ceil-
ing or the total amounts of money spent
in the intelligence gathering community:
One- of the greatest- threats to any
-1country, and particularly a country that
has great military strength, is not from
the outside or from its foreign enemies,
lit is from the inside, from secrecy and
,interior ' deterioration.: The greatest
Ithreat of all is when we begin to lose
icontrol and not know-what is happening,
land when we begin to give large sums of
tlmoney to mechanization and machines
:that have no bureaucratic control over.
ethem.
The Senator says, trust. Yes, we trust
and we love. But we know from reading
history that governments have destroyed
themselves when they no longer had
knowledge of what was happening, and
when the interior started breaking down.
I am not half' as concerned, in today's
world, about the future of America based
on exterior threat as I am about what is
happening inside this country and what
can happen inside this country unless we
are completely open, with every ounce
of communications we can have with the
people of this country. If thereby there
is some little risk to the world, with
the risks we are alread; living ; .i.h,' I
say it is not too high a price to pay.
What is the role of the CIA? As far as-
I know, I !mow nothing. I am a member
light in telling them what the total cost
is involved in the intelligence activities - -
of this country throughout the world. We
doo not know that amount, -but we' do
know it is in the billions of dollars.
I listened to the chairman of the'Sen
ate Appropriations Committee say did--
not even want to know, because he was
afraid he might talk in his sleep some- -
time and thereby disclose it to someone.
He made that statement on the floor of
the Senate.
Mr. President, we are asking just for
a thread of light into what may be not
only our greatest source of security, but
has the potential to be our greatest
threat, without the observation and light
and without the security that we our-
selves as publicly elected officials can
place upon those who have the capacity
together with the restrai.-it-and if there
is any evidence that we have applied, as
elected officials, the responsibility of re
straint I am unaware of it. I am not say-
ing there are misdeeds or there are
wrongs..I am saying none of us know
whether we are right or-wrong. If we
know, I would like to know it is and how
much he lniows, even an individual Sen-
ator, if he is asked far enough ahead, to
know what groundwork is being laid for
the capacity to draw the threads of the
armaments of this country into entangle-
ments. ? -
We have wrestled for years with the
problem of the CIA. We do not know.
We are uninformed. The oversight that
is done apparently is not carried out
either mechanically or intelligently. We
have not had the capacity or responsi-
bility to know even when we were given
information whether it was -right or
wrong, or what was happening.
Mr. President, one= of the great
Senators. of our time has been th,.e dis-
tinguished Senator from `._inneseta. He
is, as he-called himself, a Liberal, who
has said, "Let us show the public every-
of the Armed Services Committee, and I . thing, let us give them all the informa-
know nothing. I could get such info-,ma- tion."
tion, as the Senator from Minnesota has I respect his debate today in saying
said, given to me privately. It would ' the public should not have this Infor-
be given. But as far as I know, there is mation, that .it is a threat to our se-
no member of the Senate, no Member of curity. But, Mr. President, I leave this
Congress, and no member of the ad- ? -t.hought with the Members of the Sell-
 Approved For Rele.ase_2006111L14, CIA-RDP91-00966RO00800020007-6:
ate: The greatest threat to the security but reducing them, and I believe I heard Senate Select Committee on S cret anii:
Of this Nation is the secrecy that we our- tCX ay from the c ai ni n of the CO-- Con?ldential Documents, that +. he Senate
selves place on these events. IL will be mittee on Ap'arorrt: tions that the funds cihrjiri hP inrn-1r7ort i h ~'tt rr rt :-r -
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE June Z.
1974
We talk about the n znbers of TM?;,s:les, reduced.
believed that the release of of this limited
we talk about the numbers of warheads, I happen to believe that we have the information could two u
ef
--
l t
s
u
o
k
b
i
v. au
m -
k-a
n ion ress to set. Up whatever ate in maintaining the necessary support
tines, we talk about the numbers of air- kind of method or supervisory system for intelligence operations. AU I do is
planes, and all of these things; but when we need so that we do not let the execit-- provide the r erall e , , n
fine tnreat wiu come Irom losing con- Iaitii in the President. I know that this -.HATFIELD, Guax-Ey, and Ccoa. Their re-
trol on the inside. If maintaining that- is a difficult time to discuss that, because port recommended this procedure. That
control requires an ounce of risk, then i of the events of recent .months, but I is an_ It certainly does not go so far as
think we should be prepared to take that do say to you, M'Lr. President, that we breaking it down as to what the CIA and
ounce of risk fin at least letting us see have a man in that high ofce, the the DIA-spend. The leaders "concluded
publicly and the people see publicly President of the United States, who has - that if we get this overall information,
-whether we are spending $3 billion. S7 - the prime responsibility for these re- T:>;,, i- ; ~ tu--_ ..,.,.:.._ ._
iemeiltS of intel'g 1 i noos- t :t-
r on, or $90 billion, and how.- we are oui gene and national charge our duties and res'ponsib'ilities to
1 concealing it and hiding it, and if we are security and if we do not have the right the people.
protecting ourselves from the inside. as man there, then it our fault,. because we" Mr. President, I reserve the remainder'
well as from the outside, elected him.. of my time and I yield the floor..
I think that ounce of risk, if It exists, - We can- establish all kinds of systems, - Mr. STENTNIS. Mr. President, I yield '.
1 " - is worth taking, and I thank the -dis elections, and campaign reform, and-say 8 minutes to the Senator from Arkansas
tinguished Senator from Wisconsin. for that we do a better job, but I happen to (Mr. T.cCL> z LAt ).
- yielding. --believe that - we should proceed with The PPESIDD G OFFICEP (kMr. HAS
- Mr. -HrUMPHREY. Mr.-President, will.". great caution when it comes to this burl-- XZLL) ? The Senator-from Arkansas is
the Senator yield? -: ` - -- news of, really, oohing up and n
expos'
recognized for 8 minutes.,..
Mr . flUGHES.I yield. because I think of what would be the R4r. McCL=AN. M?. Pre ident, I am
Mr. HUMPHREY, Mr. President, I re-- inevitable result of our intelligence o
p_ reluctant to speak on this issue,-because
{ .. --:"spect this good man the Senator from, erations: : =? - - ~ of the position I occupy as chairman of
Iowa, who Is one of the great men of the Mr. President, I regret to have to say the Appropriations Subcommittee on Ln-
Senate, a great spirit and a great in- this, because I would like, very much telligence Operations. By reason of that
. spiration to me, and I really regret that fram my own political point of view to position as chairman of that subcommit-
{ ~.. - -. on occasions like this one has to dis- say to the contrary, but from the point of - tee, I have the duty of oversight over the
r- - - agree with a friend so dear and precious, view of my conscience, I speak as did the ~ . -
but I want to say to the Senator that Senator from Iowa. Is it not a F onderful I am reluctant to speak on these mat-
i while this argument is moving and I thing in this body that two of us can be {ere pause-I do not relish nor do I
think
think filled with much truth, we can lieve so differently and can be as sincere cherish nor do I take pride in the fact-
any possibility, of secrecy or of in our point of view? that I may have access to information
coverup by establishing within the in- I greatly respect the Senator from that I cannot share with my colleagues.
struments of the-Congress the necessary Iowa, and if his point of view prevails, -I would wish it were practical. I wish it
machinery -for the supervision of the I think it will prevail in large measure, were a proper thing to do-to disclose
Central Intelligence Agency. because of our great respect for him. every bit of information that I-have been
f + " We have executive sessions in .this ? Mr. HUGHES. I thank the distin- able to obtain from-time to time respect-
1 -? Congress. We have them in the Foreign- guished Senator from Minnesota. I am ing the a ctivities of the CIA, what it does,
` Relations Committee and we have them ready, willing, and I hope able to join its methods of procuring -information,
In.the Armed Services Committee, and him, and I hope the chairman of all of how It spends its money, and the results
we do not permit those executive ses- the committees, to find out what they that- it achieves. I- would prefer to do
.sions to become public. Maybe that is are doing. This would be the appropriate that. The subcommittees who have this
a mistake. But I, over long years of serv- moment, the time, and the day to find - responsibility are ad hoc committees of
ice here, have felt that some of these out. Let us make sure, instead of an ad - the Appropriations Committee and the
sessions are. necessary. . hoc oversight or a minimum oversight, Armed Services Committee of both the -
71 feel there is a tendency to try to that there is. some sort of bearing n r
and Senate and House. We a.e lost umentali-
make too much secret and too much ex- adequate. responsibility on that oversight ties of the Senate, of the Congress, and
ecutive. This is why I have proposed that and in carrying it out. Although we do so created where we are serving as your
we have a -joint committee on national not. have enough time, I agree that an agent, as your tool, to achieve the super- -
security of the House of Representatives occasional session here is useful so that vision that is possible and necessary. We
and the Senate. We have an ad hoc com- the youngest and the newest Members are charged with the responsibility to see
mittee on this matter of the intelligence can get available information in relation that this work is carried on, and to rec-
operations of our Government, and on . to these activities so that, they -would ommend the proper appropriations
that ad hoc commute serve some of the - know something about them. therefor.
finest Members of this body. I know - - Again, I say that this is no risk com- If these subcommittees-and there are _
.i - what good men they are. I am confident pared to the risk of darkness. A little bit 22 members on them. Ten are from the
that they are . as concerned about the of light at this moment might help us Senate-five are from the Appropriations
security of this country inside and out- all in the years to follow. - Committee and five are from the Armed
side as any of us. I find them philo- - Mr. PROXMIRE. I want to commend Services Committee, who are privy to this
sophically the kind of "Senators who - the distinguished Senator -from Iowa information that is withheld for security
would be able to cross-examine anyone, (Mr. Huci as). He has hit the target reasons from the public. The committee
And while I cannot :help b ,-,t a`g`ee with exacly on this issue. The 1 eatest danger --members are:
the Senator from Ia i that one of our ?e face is from within, I a- ee. We have u`-L---? SL3coai3't^'r?s
great threats is from within, particularly " seen what has happened to the i*!telli- Senate Appropriations: McClellan, Stennis,
from the moral erosion that is taking gence community. Eut I want to tell the Pastore, Young, and Erusoa
place in our society, not only now but Senator from Iowa that I tried to get the Senate Armed Services: Stersts, Sym!ng-
over the years, I do not-underestimate most practical and limiting amendment. ton? Jackson, Thurmond, and Dominick.
the threat from Rithout, that I could get. I discussed the amend- Mr. President, there are 12 members
Furthermore, -good intelligence p-rmits meat recommended by the majority and of the Armed Services Committee and
is to do a better job in terms of our minority leaders, written to the chair- - the Appropriations Committee of the
national security e%-penditures and op- man of the Appropriations Committee, House of Representatives. The House
erations, not necessarily increasing them and it was agreed, after a study by the Committee members a-re:
A r%rnrnnrcrJ Pnr Palanca 78(1(/1 1 /14 C;IA-RDP 1-00 66R000800020007-6 . ? -
 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD SENATE 5 =102
June 4, 1.9 741
House Appropriations: Mahon, Whitten... Mr. STE?v" IS I yield the Senator 1 right for me to do that. But I wish it
Sikes. Niisha.i, and Cederberg. additional minute. were possible and, consistent with the
House Armed Services: l:edzi, riebert, Price, Mr. MCCI r= --N. Mr. President, this best interests of our country to disclose
? Fisher, Bray; Ar ends, and Bob Wilson. has been a burden to me. I have had these figures-on the front pag.x of the
Mr. President, as I have pointed out, Senators in good conscience, in good press, on television and radio, so that
we are servants of this body and of the faith-dedicated, loyal, patriotic Amen- everybody would know. I believe, howv-
House. If it is desired that this matter be cans-come to me and seek this informa- ? ever, that the Senator agrees with me
not handled this way, the Senate should tion. I would like to give it to thet'n. But that that would be a bad mistake. I think
-recommend a change in the law and a I am torn between the personal desire It is a mistake to start the public dis-
joint supervisory committee be created- I to make them. acquainted with every- closing of these matters. If you do not
will support it. I will vielcome it.I do not thing I know-everything I have seen like the setup, change the setup, but we
care. and heard in these hearings-and the must protect our national security.
Mr PPO:'' -[ RE I say to the Senator
intend to put the camel's nose under the
tent. That is the beginning. That is the has ben more than adequate supervision Mr. McC"LEL AN. Mr. President, will
with respect to expenditures; I can say the Senator yield?
wedge. You say you do not want to know that. It has been on the conservative - Mr. PROXIMR.E. I yield. -- -
all the details on how the money is spent: side, I may say to the Senator, without 'Mr. McCLELLAly. We had Mr. Colby
But if you get the overall figures of $1 any reservation whatever. - - in and discussed this matter. I asked Mr.
billion or half e. billion ow dollars you $g in- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-. Colby to come down, and I . asked thew tolion, or know, h how ver, can Sthou then how are evaluate, you how can n a ator's additional time has. expired. - - Senator from Wisconsin and the Senator
w can A STENA'IS I yield the Senator 1 from California to come in and intero-
-All right. How much is ignorance? ment:.
want to I think I can go this far. For the past - serve the interests of the country to dis-
First, the total amount. You c ..e.,, - I-- h,aiti eytansive hearings close this information at the present -
ec
to have a security intelligence agency, we. natlonr" secure V. s J
cannot have it with national publicity effective and can be useful and can serve agree that the Senator is absolutely right
on what it does, how it does it, and how to protect the welfare of our country. to come and ask for the Senate's decision
much it spends here, or how much it I have to make that choice. - on this.
spends there. Mr. PROX 1P..-E. Mr. President, will As I understand the Senator's re-
I was intrigued by the statement of the Senator yield? sponse,- at one time he thought that he
the Senator from Wisconsin when he Mr. McCLELL.AN. I will yield, but first.. could release this if the Senate would.-
said, "Let us end this ignorance." I should like to make one other com-. approve; buthe has had second thoughts
on it and now he feels that it might not
But, let us bear in mind that if we are duty to help maintain and preserve our
urit that will be from Arkansas that I wholeheaztedlY
t 1
you judge or make an intelligent judg-
additional minute. gate him and visit with him about these
went on whether that is too much or too M MCCLELLAN. We cut the national things. I have done everything I possibly'
little, whether it is being expended wise- defense budget. We cut this more per- can to try to find an answer to this prob-
ly or unwisely, except when you can get centagewise. lem..But I do not know the answer. We
the details? The issue can simply be stated. Do we either have to do it or not do it.
How? You cannot know. And if you want to publicly disclose these figures? Mr. PROXMIRE. I thank the Senator.
receive these figures and if you end this Or do we want some other change, some Mr. President, I should like to make
ignorance as to the total amount, next, other committee to try to perform these one other statement.
YOU will want to end the ignorance as functions? I am willing to abide by the The Senator from Arkansas has ar-
to the different agencies and how it is decision of the Senate. gued, as do other Senators, that the re-
t spent, and through whom it Is spent. Mr PROXMIRE. Mr. President, will lease of this information, the overall t
Next, you will want to end the ignorance the Senator yield on my tithe? total information, is going to be of some
on what it is s spent. for. Next, you want Mr. McCLELLAN. I yield. value to the Soviet Union, but of no 1
to end the ignorance of how that Intel- M. PROXINMIP.E. I yield myself 2 min- value to us. That does not make any sense n
ligence is procured: There is no end to utes, Mr. President, to ask the distin- at all to me. It may or may not be of any
it. We take a choice. If you vote this, miisharl Senator from Arkansas a dues- -value to the Soviet Union.. Frankly, I
It is no embarrassment to. me or to any
other member of this committee. If this
is the way the Senate wants to no it, tnat
is its responsibility. - - -- - ' -
The siational security of this country
also is the Senate's responsibility. If this
is the way the Senate wants to do it, very
well. But let me say this: By ending the
ignorance that the Senator speaks of,
that can be pursued logically to the-point
that this will not be the end of-it. It will
go on from here. - '
"Ignorance" is a harsh word. We have
to be ignorant of many things In Gov-
ernment. If Government is going to
function in the area of national security,
we cannot be informed at all times about
everything that is going on. We often in-
form our enemies of too much-and they
can take advantage of:it. -
If youare going to end all their alleged
Ignorance. you are going to end national
security. Where do we stop? If you do not
like the ad hoc committees, do what the
distinguished Senator from Minnesota
has suggested: Create another commit-
tee in which you will have confidence.
Create another com ittee; name the
people you will trust to oversee.
The PRESIDLti G OFFICER. The
Senator's a minutes have expired.
On November 15, the majority and the Soviet Union can interpret whether
minority leaders wrote the Senator from our overall figure indicates what we -are
Arkansas, asking that he release all over- doing within our intelligence committee.
all intelligence information of the kind Suppose we decrease the amount we are
called for in the amendment. The re- spending. That may mean that our satel-
spouse of the distinguished Senator from lites are more effective. That may mean
Arkansas, on November 20, is as follows: we have found methods that are more
I have your letter of November 15 and efficient in gathering intelligence than
want you to know that I intend to comply, relying on manpower. If we increase the
as fully as possible, with the recommendation amount we are spending, it may mean the
of the Senate Select Committee on Secret reverse. It may not mean that we are
and Confidential Documents to provide the
Senate with the over-all sums requested for making a greater intelligence effort.
each of the various intelligence agencies. - What this does is to alert the Senate I
- What was the intention of the Senator of the United States-it alerts Members
from Arkansas? Is his intention the same - of Congress-sot that they, in turn, can
now, or has he changed his mind? get the information they should have if
bir. McCLL.L.AN. It was my intention they feel that a disproportionate amount
and it would be my intention now, to is being devoted to the intelligence con.- 4
release those figures if it would not munity-as to whether they feel it is too
jeopardize our national security. I do much or too little.
not scant to withhold them. I would 11".e As the letter fro-Ti Senator H ;->. Scor;
.
to give the Senator everything I know. and Senator MAtis-i n po e :t,
But this is not my responsibility. I am purpose of this is to maintain the nec-
not the committee. I would have no right essary support for our intelligence opera-
to come here and spread these matters tions, not to tear them down. Not to
on the floor of the Senate without the diminish our effort, but so that we can
approval of the committee. reinforce. it and do so wisely and intelil-.
'Mr. PRO Wt.E. The Senator Is abso- gently.
lutely right. One more point: With all the debato
Mr. McCT.ET.T.AN. It would not be we have heard-and I challenge the dis-
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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -=SENATE
tinguished Senators -who have yet to
speak in opposition to the amendment--
I have not heard one, single, solitary, real,-
hypothetical, or imagiinary example of
how any damage is going to be done to the
United States of America. How is this in-
formation going to be used a_ainst us? I
heard generalizations as to what might
happen if we were to release informa-
tion not called for by this amendment.
That does not make any sense. Because
we provide the overall total figure for in-
telligence does not mean we are going to
tell anything about the CIA.
My point is that if this amendment is
wrong, the burden of proof certainly is on
those who would say it is wrong; because
what we are doing is simply providing
the taxpayer what they-are entitled to
know, information on where their money
goes. If we are not going to disclose this,
the burden of proof certainly should be. That is what makes it necessary for us to
on the side of those who- say we should have such a vast intelligence-gathering
3 insist on secrecy. and not. provide dis-. activity which is worldwide. We have to
closure. - carry a great deal of the load, the major-
So I say that proof has been-lacking ity of the load for the free world. I rpm
age this could-do.-.---
not have anything -to -start with. Tie
Mr. President, I reserve-the remainder . Soviets have everything, almost:`
of my time. It they are. given this new info_^.nation
:_ Itfr. ' STENNIS. " Mr. President, how then _ certain deductions could- be made
amendment? for. these different activities and the fist
--The PRESIDING OFFICER. The op-' things we know. calculations are made
-The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator from Mississippi is recognized.
Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, I have
said in this Chamber before and I repeat
now that it is not fun being on this com-
mittee that looks into the money that -
goes into intelligence. I say that after
years of -service on the Committee on
Armed Services and the last 5 years as
chairman of?that committee.--
- This idea of not having had any slur
veillance and Congress having failed to _
go into it, those statements are just un-
founded because they are made on facts
that have been told to some Senators that
are not correct.
=.I,do not-like to go into this matter but
in the formative days men like former
Senator Russell of Georgia, former Sen-
ator Ellender of Louisiana, and former
Senator Smith of Maine were Members
of this body, and they were some of the
personalities involved. I have served with
them, as has the Senator from North
Dakota.(Mr. YOUNG),who is still serving.
Also the Senator from Arkansas (Mr,
. MCCL?LLAN) Is here. He already has
-.spoken.
It is a mistake to say that the Corn-
mittee on Armed Services in the year
1970-71 held no meetings on this mat-
te,. Every hem in the CIA budget in
thr,se yearn; was -one over by member;;
of the committee and the capable staff -
to the. matters c e have talked about
b
mem
ers, and -checked in and checked
out.
I remember that In January of 1973
::e had a full briefing before the full
_~committee by the CIA, and the budget
committee on the CIA had meetings, and
we have had meetings this year, in 1974,
that went over the budge; and we had
briefings by the CIA direct to our full
committee. "
But going back-over the years, e.,ery
year this matter has been scrupulously
gone into because of the sp ecial nature
and because we had this extraordinary
responsibility. I remember asking Dep-
uty Secretaryof Defense Packard when
he was here 3 years ago to look into this
matter from his viewpoint, and he did
that. -
. Now, we are talking about a good many
different groups that are connected with
the intelligence effort. The Senator from
Wisconsin asked for something specific.
-103-
June I, x974
This argument today is not prompted
by the CLA. I have not mentioned this
matter to the CLaL-Z do mot have one
scintilla of line about them., or a tele-
phone call, a meeting, or anything else.
Those of us who have been in-touch with
the problem have a feeling about it. As
the Senator from Arkansas said, we are
not speaking for a committee, or a de-
partment, a director, an employee, or
anything else. This is a problem concern-
ing our national security . that -has
jammed us right to the question of na-
tional. survival. That is why- we stand
here year after- year standing -firm on
To start with, the Soviets know almost this position. -It may sound apologetic,
everything-. about everything we are but it is not apologetic:It goes as far
doing by merely going to the bookstore -- as it can to explain to the membership-
or-to the newsstand. They get all of that " and to the-American people the problem
laid out before them, almost everything; we are up against, and how this problem
and we get nothing. Wo do not know any- is handled; and, as much as we can,-the.
and they come pretty close to being cor-
rect as to how much is spent by the mili-
tary, how much is spent in the- civilian
area how much is spent on satellites, and
how much is spent by the CIA itself and
where. Following a series of deductions
and inferences based on all the informa-
tion they already have from us, from the
newspapers, and from the newsstands,
they will be able to make fairly good cal-
culations.
Specifically I wish to point out- one
matter. "Senators remember the incident
of the U-2 having been shot down. Re-
member that landing that was made. We
later had that gentleman before our.
committee. President -Eisenhower was
President then. He said,:
I am to - blame if any blame - is to.! be.
attached.
That U-2 venture saed our Treasury
billions and billions of' dollars, in my
judgment, and I am familiar-with the
facts. If we had not been carrying on
an activity such as that we would have
been totally in the dark with respect to
what we knew about the extensive missile
work, the silos that they had, and a great
many other things that could be named.
There is a specific illustration.. - . .
Some might say, "Go on and develop
what Is happening now." I cannot do
that; I cannot go on. That is one of the
things that can be brought out. I have
talked to Senators in the cloakroom and
,
with respect to these programs and this
money, and how we hold back. the actual
dollar amounts for reasons I have already
given, and other reasons that could be
given. I know this has been a good debate
and I have never seen a debate where I
was so certain no single -speaker was
speaking for any agency.
same time-showing the proper respect
for every-Member of this body and for
the taxpayer who contributes as .much
as one thin dime-to the cause involved.
Now, what about the CIA itself. The
Senator-from Wisconsin`.has offered a
.'valuable amendment with respect to the
basic CIA law, and it has been accepted.
I commend him. highly for the amend-
ment: We had a bill I had introduced in
my committee.. We have.not yet had a
chance- to have hearings on that bill.
There are some - of its provisions that I
am delighted to see added as a part of
this bill. They are relevant and will be
helpful.
-
For many years-1, along with other
Senators, have gone over every single
major item in the CIA budget. . .
- On my responsibility to my colleagues,
they _ in-CIA beep a clean house. They
have had a conservative operation dollar-
wise and have accounted for the money
in a splendid way.. That has been true
without exception. There has been no
great spillage of money or great extrava-
gances, and not one bit of scandal or
odor of any kind.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ator's 10 minutes have expired.
Mr. STENNIS. I yield myself 2 more
minutes....
In connection with the expenditure of
that intelligence money. There are other
agencies involved, as we all know. The
military services have already been men-
tioned. The Defense Department Itself
has a certain intelligence agency at-
tached to it. -
So when I say these matters have been
gone over, I mean all of it, but our Armed
Sen-ices Committee is the so-called par-
ent committee of this direct CIA looney.
I am not here to praise anyone, but I
tell you,. Mr. President, that money-wise
for years and years the CLA has been
conservatively operated and has had a
firm hand and a clean hous' a_ C. a plean
record will reference to the handling of
the taxpayers' money. ?
I hope that in a moment of -frustra-
tion-and I do not blame any Senator
for being frustrated about this-this sys-
tem is not overturned here on the foor
of the Senate-on an amendment which,
if it becomes law and Is carried out,
would, as its practical effect, tjitually
destroy 80 to 90 percent of the efective-
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 would give our adversary, now and it the
future, the working tools, a blueprint, to
a degree, of our activities that have al-
ready proved to be so valuable and are
proving themselves more valuable, in a
way, as each year conies and goes. -
So I hope the Senate will not only de-
feat this- amendment but, with all due
deference to my friend, do so by a large
vote. I will be glad to be relieved of my
responsibilities in this field if the Senate
wants-to adopt a new system..
- I yield to the Senator from South Caro -
0966R0008000200Q7-6
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE
ness of much of our most important work ties of the agency des!gnated to perform familiar. and of which it had been fully sp-
in the field of intelligence. its foreign intelligence mission. In the pi=ed during this and previous sessions.
The PRESIDING OFrFIC ;R . The Sen- process of working out legislation for - -
ator's 2 minutes have expired. CI_9, it was necessary to somewhat The appropriation and the activity had
Mr. STEN:NIS. I yield myself 1 minute change the procedures followed in the been approved and recommended by the
Bureau of the Budget and, like all multa.ry
more. case of the more no --al federal agency. _e
expenditures and operaiioas, was wader the
I oppose the amendment because it This was particularly true in connection aeg s of the Commander .in chief of the
Approved For Release- .2O06ti-'1114: cIA-RDP91-
Jzt ne , 1974
Mr. President, how many minutes do Mr. President. I ask unanimous con-
we have left? = -. - --- -- '- .. sent that section 6 of that act be printed
The PRESIDING . OFFICER. The at this point in my remarks.
zation and appropriation of funds. all members of the subcommittee have t%e
Public revelation in these areas would highest regard and in whose military capacity
alert potential adversaries to programs, they have the utmost confidence.
needs, and accomplishments. This l:.^.owl- The question immediately arses as to the
edge could be used against our Nation's authority of the subcommittee to recommend
a
mmi
interest to offset the value of intelligence especially the failure t efail for such Purpose--. and
collected or to neutralize the sources and especially of the th beirtee to
divulge to the House and the co coununtry the
methods used. justi5catioas warranting the expenditure and
The 1949 CIA Act permits the alloca- all details connected with the item at the
tion of sums for the CIA to carry out time it was under consideration on the floor.
its activities without publicly revealing - The answer of the subcommittee is-ab-
the secret purpose-to which such funds solute and unavoidable military necessity,
fundamental nationlal defense..: .
was ordered to be printed.in the RECORD, who have since died, was the same commit-
as follows: tee which for something like 3 years pro-
Sec. 6. In the interests of the security of tided in the annual app opristion bills a sum
the foreign intelligence activities of the which finally totaled more than $2. billion
United States and In order further to imple- for the original atomic bomb. Session after
meat the proviso of section 403(d) (3) of, session the money was provided, and the sub-
this title that the Director of Central Intel- committee visited Oak Ridge where the wurk
ligence shall be responsible for protecting Was in proms ess without any `.iember of the
intelligence sources and methods from un- House with the exception of the Speaker
authorized disclosure, the Agency shall be
exempted from the provisions of section 654
of Title 5, and the provisions of. any other
law which require the publication or dis-
closure of the organization, functions, names,
official titles, salaries, ot? numbers of per-
sonnel employed by the Agency: -Provided,
That in furtherance of this section, the Di-
rector of the Bureau of the Budget shall
make no reports to the Congress in connec-
tion with the Agency under section 947(b)
of Title 5. .
Mr. THURMOND. Mr. President, as a
matter of fact, the arrangements worked
out are completely responsive to the ma-
jor elements of the Federal budgetary
systems. Changes from the norm are de-
signed to provide a reasonably controlled
environment so as to protect and preserve
the sources and methods which neces-
sarily must be resorted to in collecting
foreign intelligence.
As a matter of fact, I know that the
;budget of CIA is scrutinized with great
'care.
Similar procedures have been used
over the years to fund other governmen-
tal activities of an extremely sensitive
,nature when the public interest w ould not
be served through the use of more com-
mon explicit procedures. Examples of this
include the Manhattan project for the
'development of the atomic bomb and the
,development of the U-2 airplane.
On May 10, 1960, following the loss of
the U-2 over the Soviet Union, the chair-
tional 1d _ listrative nutno- t; for d? man of the House Appropriations Corn-
and provided for its funding. Tile fund- mit.tee, Clarence Cannon, e - pla'_ned that:
ing of CIA was-particularly important The plane was on an espionage mission
from the point of view of Congress since authorized and supported by phoney provided
it establishes the second of the two prin- under an appropriation recommended by the
House Committee on Appropriations and
cipal relationships between an executive a sed by the Congress.
branch agency and the Cono ess-Iegis- p
ration and appropriations. Although the Members of the House have
not generally been informed on-the subject.
I believe that our Nation is unique in the mission was one of a series and part of
the attention Its legislature has riven to an established program with which the sub-
specifying and circumscribing the activi- committee in charge of the appropriation was
Senator has 30 minutes left: .
Mr. STE NNIS. I yield 12 minutes to the
. -
Senator from South Carolina: Ca r o l i n a . --
Mr. THURMOND. Mr. President, I rise
in opposition to the amendment by the.
.senior Senator from Wisconsin. The pro-
posal has the lure of simplicity, but con-
sequences that run deep, and against our
Nation's fundamental interests. it con-
tains the promise of informing the public
while preserving the essential security of
our foreign intelligence capabilities. In
fact, I believe it would serve both inter-
ests poorly.
A constant in the needs of sovereign
nations is to possess intelligence about
the intentions and capabilities of adver-
saries. General Washington wrote. one
of his intelligence. chiefs, Col. Elias
Dayton:
The - necessity of procuring good Intelli-
gence is apparent and need not be further
urged-all that remains for me to add, is,
that you keep the whole matter as secret as
possible. For upon Secrecy, Success depends
in most Enterprizes of the kind, and for-want
of it, they are generally defeated, however
well planned and promising a favorable issue.
That was the statement of our first
Commander in Chief, the first President.
The tragic experience of Pearl Harbor
taught us a number of painful lessons.
In the 1947 National Security Act the
Congress took a giant step toward as-
suring that executive action or inaction
in the international field would be based
upon the best information available. In-
sofar as it is possible for the Congress to
direct the executive branch in-the con-
duct of essentially an executive responsi-
bility, the National Security Act of 1947
provided the authority needed for an
effective foreign intelligence establish-
ment.
The CIA Act of 1949 nrm;ided addi-
A
--This appropriation, and Its purpose, I. jus-
tided by honored and established precedent.
of the House being aware of this tremendous
project or the expenditure of the money. Ac-
cording to the testimony 13f all military au
thorities that bomb ended the war and saved
the lives of not less than half a million men
who would have had to be sacrificed in the-
conquest of Japan. No one has ever said
that the subcommittee was not justified in
expending an amount that eventually aggre-
gated more than the assessed valuation of
some of the States of the Union for that pur-
pose. And now the most gratifying feature of the
entire incident. .
The world has always recognized the re-
markable success of our form of government.
It has been the wonder and admiration of
mankind. But they have said that it was at a
great disadvantage in a war with an authori-
tarian dictatorship. -
We have There demonstrated conclusively
that free men confronted by the most ruth-
less and criminal despotism can under the
Constitution of the United States protect this
Nation and preserve world civilization-
The CIA is held tightly accountable
within the executive and legislative
bodies. There may be disagreement as to
whom the Members should be or more
particularly what committee they should
be from in the Congress, but I think such
disagreements can only be resolved-on
the basis of giving priority to the special
constitutional roles of the Congre s-the
appropriation of funds-tile enactment
of legislation-and the oversight of leg-
islation already enacted. It is diucult to
ip rceive how enlargin a wnh? s i:a s m a_
group into a so.newha: iarge group ?r ould
assure that these congressional respon-
sibilities are being fulfilled. Clearly in-
formation on the activities of the CIA
should not be displayed in a public arena.
To do so would defeat our national
interest.
Mr. President, I simply want to say
that four committees of Congress now re-
ceive this information-the A zned Serv-
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 \-pproved: For Release 2006/11 /14 : CIA-RDP91-0:0966.R0008000200*07-6
S 9612 .CONGRESSIONAL RECORD' SENATE June 4, 1974
ices Committee of the Senate, the Appro- statemenL I want. to t ve some of the Mr. CANNON. I thank the chairman
plations Con r -ttee of the Se -ate, the rest of it. for yielding to me. -
Armed Ser ices Committee of the House, The PRES!DD G O r IC .. The Sen- I must say'that I am in complete cc-
the Appropriations Co^ i ,,see of the ator's time has ex L-ed cord with the statement just n e by
These are his Senator GOLDWAT`a. I Cannot think of
It is 3%"fr
T s ,rZMOND
=1 n hidden
Is
th
S
.
.
,
ere
>
o
House.
disclosed. It just not disclosed to any- words. anything more unwise or a ythinc that
body." If any particular Senator wants Mr. STENN'IS. President, I am could possibly be more ha iul to our
this information, he can get it from. these virtually out of time, but I yield 1 min- Government than to let this amendment
be agreed to, providing for full and free
committees on a classified basis. ute to the Senator from South Carolina
It should be ciasaified_ This ir.icrmation Mr. THURMO;\D. Dr. Schlesinger information to people from whom v,e
should not be made public. Those who stated: would like to keep that information
passed a law of Congress in 1949, I-think, I would lean against it. But I think the. It I certainly m in favor of full dis-
were very far-sighted when they pro- could be. done. The problem that you get - closure on matters that ought to be of
vided -that such information would not Into, you see, as you well Imo's'. Se is public interest and ought to be disclosed
be made public. that It would be just a free Hosting to the public. I have supported that con-
I do not know of any objection that unsupported and unsupportable in public, cept continuously over -the.years. But I
has been made to the way these four with nobody except the members o the think that disclosure of the intelligence
committees have handled this inform.a- Armed Services Oversight Armed Committee committees tm and embers dppro.oprlathe- budget would, over the years, by virtue of -
tion. So far as I know, the four commit- tion Committees who would know the de- the trends that were discovered-and
...tees in Congress have done a good job tails. Those are circumstances which under which that would disclose, would Cer=
handling this information certain conditions would elicit the stoag t,ainly provide valuable ass Stance to our
..If we reveal this information to the:. tendency for a flat 10 percent, 20 percent, 50 adversaries.
public generally, it will simply aid our percent, 100 percent, cut in intelligence ac I think that if we were to provide -
enemiesWe cannot get around that. ticities because there is an !dent able tar- ., that type of ,information, then we might
There is no doubt about it. It will reveal get with no brosd understanding of what just as well discontinue the type bf ac-
the components are and 1. Is that-aspect'
the 'size of our. activities that the CIA that I -think. concerns me, tivities that ,e are trying to continue to
It will reveal not only the keep this country informed of for the-
n
a
ed in
i
g
.
s e
g
size. but also the trends, because some The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen- - benefit of the people -who reside here.
year it may go up, some year it may go ator's time has expired -I hope that the Senate will defeat this
down. Then that- will indicate to our Mr.T-h-URMON.D. I.,may-say in cloy amendment overwhelmingly. .
enemies what we are doing. It will indi- sing that we do have an open society. ? - I .thank-the distinguished Senator for
cate whether -we are increasing our in--- -Mr. STENNIS. I yield one-half minute: yielding: --
-
-- -, . Mr. STENNIS. Mn. President, I yield-4
telligence activities- whether we are re- to the Senator to conclude. - :. ?
ducing our intelligence activities. Then- -- =Ns'-r. THQRMONID. We do have an open minutes to the Senator from Washing--
the effort will be made to know where, in society, but there are. some things that - toll
what country. _ have to be.kept secret, and 'this is one -Mn JACKSON. Mr. President, I do not
,t L 11112GC4 ive iter. Ate,. STENNIS. Mr. President,I yield to_ national interest. it is true that a for-
nations s this could be a sensitive matter.
t
i
f
nu
or 2 m
es. - eign intelligence service like the--CIA
Our relations could be affected because it the Senator from Arizona
we make this information available then AJr GOLDWATEF . I thank the Sena- . must operate more openly in our society
there is going to be -the desire on the part tor. than any other similar service in any
of somebody to know how much of it is I want to express my deep concern other democracy in the world. Let us look
being spent in this country how much about this amendment. I think it is ex-. at the facts: - -
Is being spent in that country: This is a tremely dangerous, and it should be lie - Last-year the new Director of Central
sensitive question that might bring about fe^ated.' Intelligence, -William Colby, appeared
It Is dangerous because it starts a _ before the Senate Armed Services Com-
some 111 will in our foreign relations
.
No country in the world reveals this precedent..It is a precedent that I do not mittee and gave extensive testimony in
Information to the public. Why should we s-now exists any place else in the world, - public. I know- of no -other democratic
do It in the United States? Why should and I do not know that it even exists in society in which this would occur.
we tell our enemies the size of our ex- this country. It has been mentioned here earlier, Mr.'
penditures iris collecting information if this amendment Is "voted on fav- President, that the head of N11-6, which
h Intelli
B
iti
nce
is lnl
wn
nl
t
i
r
ge
,
o
y
s
s
o
o
which we need to preserve this form of orably today, we can rest assured that
government and protect the people of within a year or two, the demand will_ the Prime Minister of Great Britain.
the United States.: be made to break the figures -down so That is how close they keep that in-
This would be' an opening wedge for that we will know where every c-e_^.t is formation.,
intelligence - details. Once the total going The functions and responsibilities of
amount is revealed there will be the In military operations there is noth- the Central Intelligence Agency are fully
strenuous effort to collect the details. Ing that approaches intelligence. The prescribed in statute- I know of no other
There will be a strenuous effort to col estimate of the situation that is made by - - democratic society in which this has been
information the every man in any battle he has ever en- done. .-
lest the sources -of
i
ti
f
ll
th
A
.
na
y,
e appropria
ons
or CI
are
methods of collecting information, who gaged in is headed by intelligence of the F
is engaged in this, and how they go about enemy forces. If the enemy knows what - subject to a process which intimately In-
sit. we know about their forces, then this in- Wolves four committees of the Congress
telligence becomes tialueless. 'Who are aware of and -aplirove the de-
-I know of no clamor from the tails of its rogr
Further
s
- -
,
.
.
public. If the Senator from 'Wisconsin Mr. President, I.see no need for this The proposal before us is designed tai
knows of any clamor from the public to amendment. Any Senator can attend contribute to a more informed public.'
divulge figures here that will hurt our !briefings by the CIA if he is cleared for But how can the public be read;; in
7- --country and help the enemy, I do not top secret. Any Senator can get the fig-formed unless the details of CIA's pro-3t
lures that we are talking about by ask-
:I
bL`c grams are also spelled out: Yet, if we d ,,
know about it. 2;
ll ti
If
^
ie_n p.i
we M3
,?, for te
i.
=:ro- i.
Mr. President. I may gay, further, that r so, Z can lal :.n :.~ we w'y be
It has been referred to here that Dr. I IhL_'ti we are rs' z g for trouble. viding wh t is n essary or our pr tenti i
Schlesinger does not seem to object to We have had imposed on us an almost - adversaries to' neutralize the methods
the amendment, and that Mr. Colby does impossible task of espionage with respect which we must use in order to obtain not object to it. I believe the Senator to the Soviet Union, while they have a information about closed societies.
from Wisconsin made some such state- very easy time of it in the United St tea . The paradox of the situation is re-
ment. At any rate, during the course of I do not want to make that any easier. fleeted in the fact that recently some
the hearing on his nomination to be Sec- I hope that the Senate will say "no" journalists were jailed in Sweden-cer
retary of Defense, Dr. Schlesinger did to this very ill-advised.amend_ment, tainly not a closed society-for merely
make the statement, but the Senator Mr. STENNIS. Mr. President, I.yield 3 mentioning that Sweden has an inteLi-
from Wisconsin did not give the entire- minutes to the Senator from Nevada. gence sen-ice.
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-106-
.
June Y?- 1974 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE S96111
roblem with the removing of the Dir. President; I am prepared to yield
Our
lli
n
l i
t
p
ge
n
e
ce
our fore
In shTnhinarv, ? ervice arises out of an act of Con,- Congress Russia missiles from Cuba posed a real back the remainder of my time, if the
and all of its acts iti?s are close"y scru- critical situation- V,-hat was not gen- opposition is prepared to yield back its
tinized by a number- of representative erall y known et that tune was that a time.
members of both the Senate and the high ranking Russian G.R.U. intethger ;e Mr. STE~iNIS. Mr. President, I am
House of Representatives. This how agent named Oieg Fenkovsky had turned glad to yield back the remainder of my
we have resolved the balance between against the Communists. and he was time.
the needs of an open society and the supplying information, quite accurate as .. Mr. PROM=.E. -I yield back the re-
needs for a secret foreign intelligence it turned out, as to how far the Russians mainder of my time. -
service. I certainly do not think that would go, If anyone Wants to read some- The PRESIDING OFFICER - (Mfr"
this is the time to unbalance the situa- thing interestng on intelligence opera- HASaELL). All remaining time having
tidn as I am confident enactment of the tions. The Penkovsky Papers is the most been yielded back, the -question is on
proposed amendment would do. interesting book on the subject I have agreeing to the amendment (No. 1359) -
Mr. STENti'IS. Dir. President, I thank ever react of the Senator from Wisconsin (Mr.
the Senator. I am sorry I do not have - I know there is great interest in the PaoxanaE). :: - - ' -
more time, but I am glad to yield a min- public knowing everything possible, but .--On this question, the yeas and nays
ute to the Senator from Virginia. I think there are some things that should have been ordered,. and the clerk will
call the roll.
Mr. WILLIAM L. SCOTT. Mr. Presi- be kept secret for our own security.
dent, I merely want to join with my col- Mr. STE NNIS. That is a. fine state- The assistant legislative- clerk called
leagues on the Armed Services Commit- meat. ?. the roll
tee in opposing this amendment. We are Mr. PROXMIRE. Mr. President,. since Mr. ROBERT C. BYRD. I- announce -
all proud of the open society of which we this is my amendment, I prefer that the that the Senator from California (Mr.,
are a part, but there. is a time when we opposition make whatever statements CRANSTON), the Senator from Arkansas
-must keep some of our intelligence se- they want to make. I intend to speak only (Mr? Ftn.sRTG-*_T). the . -Senator from
cret, and I would urge my colleagues, in another minute or so, and then I shall - Indiana (Mr- HASITcs); the Senator from
the interest of the country, to defeat this yield back the remainder of my time, Kentucky .(Mr. HUDOLESTON), -the Sea-
amendment. -7 ? . which is 54 minutes. ator. from Hawaii (air. biou-yE),- the
The. PRESIDING., OFFICER. Who . Dir. STENNIS. Air. President, if the Senator. from Massachusetts (Mr. K.Ei:-
yields time? Senator will conclude in 1 minute, I will NEDY), the. Senator from 'Utah (Mr.
Mr. STENTNIS. Mr. President, how yield back the restof my time right now, Moss), the Senator from Alabama (Mr. much time does the opposition have and that will conclude the debate. SPAP.icarAN), and the Senator from Cali-
remaining? I might have misunderstood Mr. PROXIvnR.F" Mr, President, with fornia (Mr. Tun x') are necessarily.
the Chair. alf deference to my colleagues, I think absent. -
? The PRESIDING.OFTZCEP The op- this amendment has been very badly nits- I also announce that the Senator from
position has 9 minutes. The proponents interpreted. It would not give away any Missouri (Mr. SYMI.NGTO ) is absent be
secrets or expose any of the secret work- cause of illness.
have 54, Mr.. STENNIS. Mr. President, I yield ings of the CIA. All it would do is provide Mr. GRI FIN. I announce that the
is 3 minutes to the Senator from North one overall figure, of what our intelli- - Senator from Oklahoma (DL. BrLT.:am:) -
gence operations in total cost, and the Senator from Oregon (Mr. -
Dakota: Mr. YOUNG. Mr. President, I rise to There has been not one example -dur- . PACxR OOD) are necessarily absent.
oppose the amendment, ing the debate of how this figure could The result was announced-yeas 33.
I see no objection to every Member of do us any damage; not one. How it would nays 55, as follows:
the.Senate knowing exactly how much help the Russians is beyond me. If they ?_ {No" 224 Leg.] - -
moneys spent for intelligence, and Sen- inquire as to what the figure means, ob- YEAS-33 .
ators can get that information now if viously they get no answer. But Mem- Abourezk Hatfield 2,?uskie
they want it. It cannot be -made public begs of the Senate or the House of Rep- Baker Hathaway . Nelson
though.. But as -one who has served for resentatives, on the basis of this figure, Bayh ? Hughes Pelt
many years on this five-member Sub- could inquire if the total is increasing or Case Javits - Proxmtre
Magnuson Randolph
eh` ch
e whether they
committee on Intelligence Appropria.- decreasing, or determin clank ?SsnstieId Ribicoff
tions and Oversight I can see great dan- think it is too big or too small. I point out cook Mathtas Schweiker
ger in having to publicize the amount of that it might very well be too small. E. gletoa McGovern - - Staeo-d
Gravel Metcalf
be spent for-intelligence Finally, Mr. President, this proposal Kart 1\ietz?nnbaum Weica-er s ecker
money that can
~Ci H
'
_
ams
Monda:e
purposes. Is not based on something that came Haskell
Let me give a good example. During from my mind, by any means. This is NAYS-55 - -
World War II, President Roosevelt spent based on the recommendation of a bi- Atken ? Dole McClure
some $4.5 billion, as nearly as I am able partisan committee of Democrats and Allen Domenlci McGee
to ascertain, to develop the atomic-bomb. Republicans, headed by the niaiority Bartlett - Dominica nicmntyre
vMontoya,
Beall Eastland
1~uu
was probably the best kept secret leatier and the minority leader, who rec- Bennett Ervin Nuun
this country ever had, It was a good thine ommended that the release of this lim-. Bentsen - _ annin Pastore
it was, because the Germans had the kited information will be useful to the Bible Fong Pearson
know-how, and if they had known we 1Senate In maintaining the necessary Brost: Brock Goldwater Percy
G-ii~.n Roth
support of our intelligence operations. Brooke Gurney - Scott, Hugh
' an atomic bomb the
velo
in
w
d
g
ere
e
p
y
, 5 - could probably have developed one be- I just cannot understand how Mem- Burdicick k Heltns Hansen SSiScott,utam L
B3 rd. Hollings Stennis
fore us. I understand only five or six ]bens of the Senate could be afraid of a Burd
Members of Congress knew of that de- ! little knowledge of a little information on Harry F., Jr. HrustS Stevens
velopment. Even Vice President Truman the basis of which inquiry could priv- Byrd, Robert C. T:u nphrey Taft
Cannon Jackson Talmxdze
? did not know it until he became Presi- , ately be made, so we could see whether Chiles Johnston . Thurmond
dent. if the bomb had not worked, Presi- or not these enormous sums are being cotton Tc T^-ere-
de [e-mail]:;?h` have s bjrc speriC!~vjy?'_Now edoI:ot?no:v 11c't:h CL~a
to impeachment for spending so much er it is $1 billion, $5 billion, $10 billion, NOT VOTING--12
money without being authorized to do l or chat it is. We do not know whether Bellcnon? Buddleston . Packwood
c
&:k=an
-
inou
e
the amount is 90!n-. up or down. It has Cranston
Falbright Kennedy 6Tming;oa
f th
h
i
rman o
a
e T-I' artl:e Dios T1:anC,.-
Also, during World War II, a German been indicated by the c
named Richard Sorge became a Russian 4 Appropriations Committee that the
Communist py:- He found out from amount has been fairly stable, and per- So Mr. PRoxsnaE's amendment- (No.
,q 1 Japan that they had no intention of haps has declined in the last year or 1369) was rejected.
attacking Russia, but were going to move . so-This is very useful to know. It seems DST. STENNIS. Mr. President, I move
t 11 , rht to l- to re"onsider the vote by which the
no
-
a
-
,Y
- -
I
Russians were to me ta we
south, and as a result, the
able to remove their crack troops from how much is involved and a duty to amendment was rejected.
the Far East and win the war against know, and a duty to act on the infor- - Mr. McIN"IYRE. I move to lay that
Germany. oration. motion on hte table.
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/14- C'IA-R BP91-009668000800020007-6
S'9614
- CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -SENATE -
The motion to lay on tae table was
?agred to.
? 5ZNDME'S No.
13:8
. ne PRESIDING OFFICER. Under the
previous order, the Senate will now pro-
ceed to the consideration of amendment
No. 1378, by the listing.: sled Senator
from Minnesota. (Mr. Ham:?aREY), which
the clerk will report.
'The second assistant legislative clerk
proceeded to read the amendment. -
unanimous consent that further reading
of the amendment be dispensed with-
. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, it is so ordered; and, without
objection, the amendment will be printed
in the REcoan. .
-The amendment is as follows:
On page 17, between lines 20 and 21. Insert
a new section as follows:
Sm'. 703. Notwithstanding any other pro-
vision of law, no funds appropriated pursuant
to this or any other Act may be used for the
purpose of carrying out research, testing,
and/or evaluation of poisonous gases;-
radio-active materials; poisonous chemicals. blo-
logical, or chemical-warfare agents upon dogs.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Time for
debate on this. amendment shall be lim-
?ited to 30 minutes, to be equally divided
between and controlled by the mover of
the amendment and the manager. of
the bill. -
Mr. HUMPHREY. I yield myself such
time as I may need.
? The PRESIDING OFT'ICER. The Sen-
ate will be in order. Senators will take
hir seats or retire to the cloakroom for
.air conversations. The Senator will not
proceed until the Senate is in order.
Mr. HLTMPHREY..Mr. President, I
discussed this amendment yesterday. I
want to be sure that the Department of
Defense and its related departments or
agencies do not engage in the use of dogs
for carrying out research, testing,. and
evaluation of poisonous gases, radioac-
tive materials, poisonous chemicals, bio-
logical or chemical warfare agents. That
Is the whole purpose of this amendment.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Sen-
ate is not in order. The Senator from
Minnesota is entitled. to be heard- The
Chair--asks the indulgence of Senators.
. Mr. HUMPHREY. Mr. President, be-
cause I want to make sure that this
amendment is specific and is directed to-
ward the Department of Defense, as it
relates to the use of dogs in the testing
of poisonous gases, radioactive materials,
poisonous chemicals,, and biological or
germ-warfare agents. I want to change
my amendment very simply, by making
sure that it applies directly to this act.
Therefore, on line 2 I would say.
' No funds appropriated pursuant to this Act
may be used for the purpose of carrying out
research, testing .: .
I so modify the amendment.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
Chair ad vies the Senator that inasmuch
? as the yeas and nays have been ordered,
-anialous consent is required. -
,fir. HUMPHREY. I astk unanimous
vvnsent.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there
objection? The Chair hears none, and it
is so ordered.
The modified amendment is as follows:
On page 17, between lines 20 and 21, inert
a ne w section as follows: '
5cc. 703. Notwithstanding any 'other pro-
v:5ion of law, no funds approp meted p?_.rs:::~t
to this Act =3y be used for the p1:_-pcee of
ca. -g out research, testing, and/or eva:ua.-
tion of poisonous gases, radioactive mate nn:."
poisonous chemicals, bioicgicsl; or chenlhcal
warfare agents upon dogs.
Mr. HUNIPHREY.- Mr. President, the
purpose of that is for clarity. We are
not trying in this proposal to move in
on the National Science Foundation; in
its normal research work, or the Depart-
ment of Health, Education, and Welfare..
- I wonder what the arguments are
against this particular proposal. The ar-
guments are, of course, that if the Hum-
phrey amendment, known as the beagle
amendment, passes, it will- restrict re-
search, and it will complicate the prob-
lems of the Department of- Defense on
ascertaining how much, for example, an
individual or man can take in a sub-
marine; how much bad air;. how. much
polluted air.
Mr. President, I say all of that is not
-relevant because. if the Department of
Defense wants to make tests as to the
effect of poisonous gases, radioactive ma-
terials,, poisonous -chemicals, . biological,
or germ warfare agents, there are plenty
of other animals they could use such as
rates and mice. -
I do not believe any Member of this
body wants to see the Department of
Defense advertise,- as it has recently, for
450 beagle' puppies for the. purpose of
testing poisonous gases, radioactive ma-
terials, poisonous chemicals, biological
or germ warfare agents.
I, for one, am trying to save the De-
partment of. Defense from a.little more
bad publicity. I hope they were mistaken
in. that original advertisement. This
amendment really is the result of con-
versations.I have had with the distin-
guished Senator from Washington (Mr.
MACNUSON), who long has been interested
in this kind of legislation. The Senator
from Washington was not on the floor
yesterday when I proposed this amend-
ment, so I ask unanimous-consent that
.his name be added as a principal co-
sponsor of the amendment, along with
the Senator from Kansas (Mr. Doan),
and the Senator from West Virginia (Mr.
RANDOLPH). '
. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without
objection, it is so ordered. -
Mr. HUNIPHREY. These Senators all
have given seriou' consideration to this
proposal. -
Mr. President, the amendment before
us addresses the question of the cruel
testing by the Department: of Defense
of poisonous gases, germ warfare agents,
nerve gas, biological warfare agents,
poisonous chemicals, and radioactive ma-
terials on dogs- '
As I pointed out to n y colleagues late
yesterday afternoon upon introduction of
this amendment, the military branches
,have been insensitive to the hue and
cry in this country against their con-
tinued use of dogs in test gas programs.
The DOD has used dogs extensively and
currently is using dogs In the evaluation
of the toxicity and disabling nature of
poisonous gas. The DOD needs some di-
rection in its use of dogs in an expe-'i-
June !., 1974
mentat on provr^cm _My email ~,ent
gives It that direction. It proe-'bi:s the
use of dogs in all such deadly and cruel
experimen t.ation.
Mr. President, I find. the poison gas
experiments by the DOD on dogs-on
man's best friend-reprehens! ble.
.It is one thing to do legitimate medi-
cal research on rats and remits, but It
is quite another thing to use dogs, to
use beagle puppies, in the testing of
poisonous nerve gas and radioactive ma-
teriai and other deadly agents of war-
fare. .
I want to remind my colleagues in the
Senate of the moving words of Senator
George G. Vest, who served in the Sen-
ate in the late 1800's to 1903:
The one absolutely :lnsei^"sh fiend that
Man can have in the selysh world, the one
that never deserts him, the one that never
proves ungrateful or treacherous, is his
dog ... Ne will kiss the hand that has no
food to offer. When all other friends
desert, he re!nains - -
--.I? Introduce this amendment not only
to protect our dogs, which are so close
to our hearts, but also with earnest con-
cern for the -provisions of the Geneva
Protocol of 1925 .-which prohibits the
use of asphyxiating, poisonous, or other
gases, in was, and the use of bacteriolog-
ical methods of warfare. -
I am the author of Senate Resolution
48 which calls for the Senate to support
a broad interpretation of the Geneva
protocol. In so doing my resolution rec-
ommends that the United States be will-
ing, on the basis of reciprocity, to re-
frain from the use in war of all toxic
chemical - weapons whether directed
against man, animals, or plants.
T'he amendment which we are consid-
ering today is in the context of my con-
cern that we prohibit the development
and use of all chemical and biological
weapons whether directed against man
or man's best friend-
' The DOD currently"is testing poisonous
gases on beagles and it will continue to
do so unless we prohibit such a heartless
practice. - - -
Senators have been calling the Depart-
ment of Defense, editors have bin writ-
ing editorials, doctors have been pro-
testing,.but the Department of Defense
just goes willy-rally on its way with its
deadly research on dogs.
As I indicated earlier, -the U.S. Army's
Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland currently
Is advertising for 450 i e gie puppies to
be used to test poisonous chemicals and
gases. We must stop the appalling suf-
fering which the dogs must experience
in these DOD experiments. _
If my colleagues were able to. read
the scientific description of some of these
experiments from the American Hygiene
Jom-sial, which ap e-a ed 'i the flee osn
yesterda,, t_ am see they will to
Stop these devastatingly cruel e:?: e -
ments by supporting my amendment. I
Urge its adoption.
Mr. President, before anything further
Is said about it, there is not one bit of
necessary research that would be In-
hibited by this amendment Not one bit
of research has to be done on do_,s In
connection with poisonous gases, radio-
active . materials, poisonous chemicals,
 Approved For Release`2006111/14 : CIA-RDP91.0O966R000800020007-6
Appendix,6
On September 2S; at a closed meeting of -To see the classified intelligence hearings .
the powerful House Appropriations and budgets, a Congressman had to sign
Committee, members voted 30 to 19 not to for the material and refrain from taking
receive C-U? ardother intelligenceagency notes. He also had to agree to disclose it
.budget figures. As a result, the full com- :only to "authorized people: .
mittee accepted.. without discussion. a On October--1; Giaimo sponsored an
subcommittee recommendation: for a cut amendment orithe House floor that would
of $263.2 million in intelligence activities have led to-public disclosure of the CIA
next year 'without k owing -.what the budget: It lost 147 to 267. The.-large vote-
overall spending of CIA aed other agencies ' , against disclosure was attributed to
would be or what operations, would be ?Mahon's offer. to individual members to
curtailed by the cuts. Jock at the figure.
Rep. Robert. Giaimo (D-Conn), a However, -f=ew members had walked
.member of -the Defense. Appropriations -. from the House chamber across the hall to
-subcommitt.ee:thafiooked.i;.tointelligence the Appropriations com,.mittee offices to
reviewthe-material. For some who did not
go it was the secrecy pledge rather than a
)Ir. Pincus is. on the national staff disinclination to- know the facts.
of The1Wcshingtoa Pcnt: 7 'Giaimo concedes: a slow move toward
>:. -.greater disclosure-and perhaps in-
creased Congressional oversight-is
agency spending, wanted the full com- taking place. This was the first year the
mittee irr its closed sessions to discuss the defense appropriations subcommittee, on -
:CIA budget. According to Giaimo, which he serves,. ever held hearings on
Appropriations Committee Chairman intelligence spending. The directors of
George Mahon (D-Texas) told him at the CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency and
September25session hecould notmention National Security Agency, plus other of
11 f? 't f 11 t facials were estioned In -t ears onl
t
a
mte igence rgures to e ow comma
ee 1i" . p
y y Y-
members, "We then had a long discussion Mahon and a few ranking committee ""
in secret;".Giaimo said Monday, "with members reviewed intelligence budgets..
(Chairman).'. Mahon blocking from.. This year, also for the first time, a detailed
discussion:`_tbe - secret budgets of in- written understanding between- the sub
telligence agencies:" , '.committee and' the intelligence com--?
Rep. - David Obey (D-WVis.) finally- -' munity was drafted on the use of the ap-
requested a.- vote by the committee -proved funds.
ould - : ` Mahon also has set- up a task force;
members on whether the CIA budget could--':'
be disclosed then and there at the closed chaired by Rep. Neal Smith (D-Iowa)
?
Mahon. first made the offer to his own .: telligenceoversigrt.
they had been made available by Mahon- of its- members are interested in -in--=
andother intelligence agency budgets once today the House leadership and a majority
secret subcommittee testimony-on CIA .Committee, remain skeptical that as'of;=
members are uninterested in the details of .: other -leaders In the intelligence- iit-- ..
inteiii ;e."ce? is that "not tcx) ma;vv" of his. ''ie,tigat nn includi-'g.Chaicma9 tl:i,
hearing. It lost. For Giaimo, the com -..work out new rules governing distribution
mittee's action was indicative that, despite in the future of CIA and other classified.
recent public disclosures, "these guys in intelligence material. and . testimony
.the House just don't want to know" about ? _ presented to-, the appropriations com
intelligence activities. - mittee. Giaimo is on that task force:
Another- sign to Giaimo -that House With -these steps, however, Giaimo and
committee-members at the September 25 -:t,! As- one of the advocates of investigation
floor f ive days later during the first day of House ever assume its responsibilities
-108-
 -109-
.- C.^~'. O U h ...?
O T r O U ~s -.. O- O' C
C) " ^ :G u u O 5
. ^ .n -?`.,.
r- -4 - L
C
v L Ov ).. ?'O U u U O O Q O O J ?)U N~ro~ Ce)
u c u
U O u u n u> ~^ >'n ~~ > r
7 U ._ y U
I11 ~~ TUB rl G-' _ c3 O ~: c.? O
V U u .. O .-. U _ rC O
C U O
C) GCS C: 3 - ^_ U^ C) " 7 a 7 t - 1~ l
>.. O .. 9
-
y U c3
U J
-
-'~
^
_
-
a
_)
U O "
v> -. V v
C) o
0 CJ
E E:
"r =D > [D N ?~ r?D `"~' J :n L ??y O .`y _ L J U > U O _
C, 1:3 6A,
U .-7" J -']r 7 ~7 V~?j J _C> "3 > y?C -
c
V l U O _ --7`u -O c ?O C .? O L ., C ,O-. u O >' n?
0 C,
t..~ O"'- ~_' o ?~ `c~,p t: >.. N O u -- > C O eD O C "' O
u u :J gnu U >.-L J
c U ^_ -. U c7 j = CL_-_, C v J- C U _ z- -U.+ G c3 U
~; < c a G ~ ~ c) ?- >
0 0
cs ^ r y u O
~-~ C,?J->~+~U~L`)?:s .,.sJ..?y ~,~. a wife on some payroll or have subs`?an-
There was no objection:. . . flay outside income, What they are really my intention to offer the arencimen't to
The Clerk read as follows: - doing is beating. the?r home State out of the foreign]-add authorization b31L
amenem nt ofertd by pie: Gysso- Under. several hundred dollars in. State income closing, Mr. Chairman. the ale.^,d-
i
l
h
;
aps an unus,2a
s per
ore ,u
-Other fter "-ement,Air FO.-ca.' on Ymge 39, taxes and taking- a cheap shot of pub- ment be
line 17 after "Septa bef 30. 1973. , st am the licity which costs them very little. Thelr way to get to the heart of the question-.
period and insert in LOU thereof: ": ~rial50 , . constituents should want to know how we in. the Congress face as to the open-
se on
"
- T'h3t none ofthe-funds In this a by the
--
ness of our Government.
'.s7,ail.be s,-mllabla for eraendt:t.5e.by the Cen-- mac s' it peaty 'cost them for` tin's P We certainly believe that the CIA
t
gentleman yield? the issue to debate, we have brought for-
the be sure to contribute at least the proper
T,rr vATFS- I. 7leld_-to the gentleman.:- n,. ,~ - ward this amendment to determine the
as' to be a vital part of our national.'
strikes the last word, wt'o claims he making a 52.125' con-
i -- _ span, fir- Rat slnnly 2s a move to eat
Qrak Ia'e212v ace Agency. '_. id_ty S
ttSI2 . o+-i3h1tt . to be t.it21r'- -rnn-hde.
vP f , I especially
-
Ohio was allowed those out?of order) . the Cler'k's otSce : the . Committee on of . -11 i? e era gencb budgets-
ion al
orde
i
istr
d
H
. ...a..
-.
n
+
m
ouse- A
..2zo ss zo covaa~:~rs~x sz 'Amu-, ~' ?'t Clerk to o ve it tai ay. person who -dolly: -or:.a billion. dollars. or two or
t
the
o
le
th
pe
p
s,
,
ose arvoun
sae 1-NCR??54 it. threernes
. IIAYS - of Obio. ~L^.. Chairman, I 'Wants Mn i-_? the taxpayers, have a right to lmow.
-.+LSr. MADDABBO.Mn C`Li,.._azt, I move
have solve- important information for to strike the- reruisite number of words, And if .the Russians would then also
'
1em s 1ffer, Sop disclosure will
those: Members. who, have said that they - and I rise in support of the amendment olmow; nly let L
do not want, to take the proposed salary only Chairman, I rise in support of inc show that our inte-lite^ce agencies 1,
increase and- that they are going to.turn. ? can do as good a job as tl2ei , c - .do-
nrr+anrimant offered by the
that Part-oLtceiz.Saiil:y L"".' -- - r ,. GLI o) . - -- -
iTC-M CJn_ec,c"I (N"-. nd.=en'-
.-.. Oa r^3 - - - -- i ...~ yOL'r 511p7grt i0i
? -floor to include .fe nnra _,< < oms= _.~ u
c ._ ear, I oia to
"~',`' -li pint IIICL23~8.?..I fill ec, :C: :v :1? t^.:S `,-
others iu. the-,ceu.-o Lr_ HOC Mr_ r~
_':-?. _ -- __-- al;- to cxtens17el.7 cruestio7-the
CIA ag th, r,~i c1Fp-~iir-,hernfand.
:crease may snake a ion ~ibu-ion to the ~.-
1_1..,.+:ti11- sand-1d, forthright and to the Poi:-it,, m-?;s?on to re? e and extend li3 re
,, in-- neater `.Iest of us on the sc>rcom'n:*. tee ~Vh I first c.2r_ia to Con ass in 1969, , en ' i_ arm Sure they -would deg to have t 5,,. +, e ~~r. dtmav 7 hr?leVP 1Cro_mn.Y. frf+'orrt n I received an to Ji-
t .be dotn xd.1n--order to re~ ce do a better leb e= m
,
to t e gen- e r~
.!ati7 si'Tt-?ri GiQCCa^ juzS s2zms
^b' \~3~g i =-t~.~~sl sm abl? to Qu `IO t~ ~~ t -
t
in
:-e.'Se2~ L- r of the S07.2t~i^1on
~5^_Cilcll+i _ t Ui_ =re cper3 :C -r Tanto) have done L.l .
=_-, uemau'IS.CC+:cs..`..?i..-+.---..-..-- 1G, Or. aar-oLner' COt::.i.rj. ~.:w-+ .......J.. - --. -
ment?omthj2m accu_ac7 o;'.~e ~~?cres? o tabu ac;- to es~l at his. a. oust not a member of the deice sub-
... mine-221. L.. ~ - _ s_-.a _- on Fh ?("'I_~.'. a7.I' _.__ .._ ~V.nt
.= it to me--vn cz shows a breakda " oa h an; oocj I ca an sag do, no
tt1om,?,`have s fairly l decentest'n to of whatt..e about the CZ r' tknow.~--
th? f-TA,-tOtaliL V~ ~??;o c tredoi gaSF2I1_ __ _ _ ~7 t7 inv cns It because I .ow
and
i
.
- P as out
are ixanj v?~,.-
otherpublic3tiOr_I ?" bL'_0 sWbolizethatw are going to dea..,
easy-
r .ec aIIIeae.-tz,..Tn-ago,-then saturda '-'-.- 't `+h c i s s u e .in a manner which I a: is the bill we have- very-
_ vnrTx- or -FTo d3 Mr. - Chair-
s -
e in p Sits
s
.. iV _. -
f'.? either.exceot that iwouid snoees
h ~len^vn from Wisconsin h=se`cp L Lions I had before the full com.-ni:-
Committee `
-
e:
tee. I touched' cn ththem lit br:E~ ; yes- -
biemhe:s ttL3t:thz3 Do to t_ ..? on:lPP
rooms andcomparethe _:? owttno^fmous consent Nine. Oases was
_
terday- afternoon about what t`:e- end
+ :res no it aIIowed by aLoed to proceed Ion 2 additional , .in to
3tiors fi
th
n
wit
rued.
e
g
S
- 'ures a E; exlmmitt and drag. thei o- -- con _:_ 71t ) .OB 'Y. Mr_ Cna;rm , I thins we : result is going to be as fa ,re
sons of this amendment a- concerned.
ecticut
clusions(Mr??
- _:: -': ;; The gentleman from _Conn
L would aisasaT that the:breaadown o!'. vine cT b t doing & little bit more to con- Gz fo) told us yesterday in his test,-
^.ncs our constituent; that we ar.. ~-~ that t:~*is was a hecl=cuitcusHouse.--
route of
the-d!,sClcsur~ of-then CI~buEgzt . ~vouId Mouse about th
Mickey am
ene SS no:- G': to any" Pcssibl~ ng u''18t 3IIv mony that erpM of the ~ni Ua1te,states_Ith - even:-.'Whole a little a 'less ~ ST s v eeled, but firrst. netting t e will of tilwoutd like to o what: his end
'
e?
t
Z
w
w
s
. ' =o tthbyaeoo'_esinthe that--6
o no to be nraatile eventu -
been - .
that is. not ti e'reai reason they y do. not:-- we are asking that this 'u-e be is .
i have-: rESiilt l-
bud~Et so that each of us n'iI-
to accompl sa_ I 4cnow ttis: I kno v
th
t
e
~ ~
T a 2- J eno e prod to exe cis? our o:v_ r? r- wan
s
wantto-disc c theu.5udb figilrthat year seeT~is ton be the year to
t
disc es9 - '
t t
o
t wan
real reams,hey-da no g;c1 around tn? CL~ It ms that- e, erg
tl:e ffe u.??e is we ht her-_ in the Con sonal responsibility i_ ove* seF ng tn~ ~'
gyve Fic~ on somebod __=s y ne~v':'
.
' s of the C7 ;~'
t:vitie
ee the
Year
~~ fey know that once -we s
Sut- at there is SOMe- value. in
I would not come to th_Ya8oor and tr
$ we to able to flues Wwti1 from' controcctt to tthe statement made by the
SL2 _-St to t? r COIle1~ T2S tior e-n CYO .
evrill be able to anal alyze i will not- h ,mer.can
was totally -clean and had-never- done'
havL- the- -,
d to.
re are actuations
would I ' co e:
tl
and t
c
i
Nor
w that
,
they ve.had in not-:-publi
no thinnQ W7 0n,-. same free response. _ r any
7'y eaz toyami
in the intelli~?nc bud~et.of t to cotz i ?,
h Mr. tB?respond at all. - this floor and say that Members of Con?
had' Haver-'
;tiSr OBEY: _ Chairman;3.thank the- bECaus2 that ho prod them+ beeto-ask ques--: ors, were totally clean mid
bons which should have ve been asked for d wT?on- . %
Aunt anvtaina
Mr-
would just- i! e- to mare- &: Iew i~--.._- L:_ EV ti5 of Colorado: fir: C 'air _ ? .. __
marks r.am sure all of us have heard_.13 the gentleman yield? the Members as sincerely- as I can: ice
wi+ Mr OBEY:.I yield to-the gentlemn the Government di of- the-
3o0 doeOne just cati e-
the old Political maim from t m
..way.... .__. - _.__
a Egg tna ge re than
c'[a a initiated
~ buv it stops short h., + already'
d in good Iax've:me a ofa this: is=. imp I e- t
making is>-.eent,-
get it-out?o?: any ille-al-?-
hear
Ltlsia t h St thiz=~ Ica c n. do Is con e i1n mind
our rnetoncon_this saihiect...We-are- .not. L?reareooin? to?havE?s.hidden Chairzna*c, I= are interested tru
burly-Pub~ the budget- for the CIA.= we?-haze-to ;~ nether the sporsorsOf this amendment
takin gsg_ 'e.,.-step, forwazd.
.: _. ,_.....:,. ,Ah the... -. -'_ _-- ~'r:'L_.,..d r?r;'-SP-nllF It?= TAaIIv- - merely'?= C~-..'nt--. this- Ll 1endme^`.
this f;ure in.tnz , all
states b:il Publish=eo : th `= something ese is b ecause _- - 1 na' .L
C?-I :dd and subt,'-act'' bens barn se7eral years-when the' d ea,.
budget_ s.the' gentleman's amendT~ient
_TE'a.:.stEas:'.',.. o:r.ec .when?we-are tuc?Sjlg issue :?as Inc Pentagon. Papers. We ~F-1i1
_Zzla
-a
l h the sronsors un o
=hs: oLSZr J t se ocrs nnur ~i:- Cr `!r- Clair "ere
Q
r~~~aZ I; r .: . _, i.0 ~_'" ^.~ p^
~%L7iiC21ij 5. 2.^~- ~wC A' :::L
?
'
.-i, r ?'- , ~
~
r
3~L
~` i~a:. ~
-4?'r"n;,4^mcae v',v ~`3~:LJ t-o'.re- "'.tea J '
Mr: C'3' IC
_ - - - -- -. -. _: --1,- of tRP-T-:O _5e. 2.nd-.S?? ata--,-4 .^_O?-
' .. __-
aboi:t zz a sub it a l r--i_ figur_ l z as Pan
_:,r =~..comtitreat~ :Jcir.~ P te the" P vow apers were- rr-ade__
'j1, ~~"~.. nO~.G^9.`..t?""1'_"i,~.."i~i~ _.1S `_t0 rCC:_mE'a:iCilIIj-Ot.1eT'mem-' fLf }
 for : 3f0) in response to his earl er'question:
auaLsble to, thls-Eoeise, desoltethe?...any-'?: except. a little, subcommittee- wor's
- - outc:ieit, Imo. ``h1' U^-F a * ls-of . ` a. f1-st time. cf Fr at the C? i dam. or I will tell the gentlemen it is tr e at
;:our+Cailea~zc 'went down to that of-2ce -weak-the-budget is. T'~s is not sa?. Try as-a member of the. Committee on Ap-
not we are god to open up the CIA far .- ice" te.?p:etation, I would like to hear fr . Services, which has eve sight jursdic an
--the world to see, tas_' image Sul be him-h3s the opportn,.inity, .hen the CIA of the CIA. If Lhat is not the place to
;done, the issue w ill be over. and Wen We is being heard by the Subcommittee on learn about the CLA, I do not know
:+hat
Bence-gathering - aad~;covert' .- activities tleman has expired. ' -?' to yield again to the gentleman from -
that must be engaged in to pe_Korm that (On request, of Mr. CoNrr;- and by Connecticut
duty is a dirty, jog,: and . anybody, who- unanimous consent, Mir. Yot,:rq of Flarlds . DIr. GLA MO. Mr. Chairman, I would-
on carries- that. jots is. going to soil his ..was allowed to-proceed for 2. additional like to ask the chairman of the commI
.'-.hands. That is justs fact of life-that all.-minutes) tee when be changed the rule allowing
- the debate in tae world r-Lnnot change. Min- CON'TE. `.Ir. Chairman,_. will the members of the full committee to sit in
-Mr. GLAIMO: Mr. Chairmen will the- -gentleman yield further? . ti .: on subcommittee hearings involving the
gentleman yield? -: :- . ..- - _.?:. ; lit. YOUNG of Florida: I4w1T yield to-'- CIA- _. _ ... , .. _
' - Mr. YOUNG of. Florida. I yield.to the the gentleman-.. -- - .- ldr. MAEO f. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman Mr. CONTE: Mn Chairman, that rule'- gentleman yield?-
Dir. OIAIALO::I.thank the gentleman. came about maybe 2 years ago, that any - Mr. YOUNG of Florida. I yield .to the-
for yielding. Member can sit in any other subcommit distinguished chair"rnan .of- the commit
Does the gentleman personally know ? tee and 16t-en to the evidence. tee. -
about anything.. of those dirty jobs the. So as far as I am concerned, under the . Mr. M AEON. Mr. Chairman, tradition -
CIA has donelegalt7, illegally, or- other- new rule any Member of the Congress - ally, for the last. 28 years, the Commit
wise? now has a right to go over here across the tee on App opriatioas has undertaken
Mr. YOUNG of Florida. The gentleeman- hall to the Committee on Appropriations to maintain the -secrecy of the Central
- knows that during our committee- dis- and that Member can get the budget or Intelligence Agency and of certain other
cussiors. last -week I offered an amend- can get anything else over there; is that highly classified, top secret matters. C-en-.1
ment that would allow hint to tell me true? ?- erally. we have not encouraged members .?
that- .Mr. YOUNG of Florida. To my knowl-- of-the Committee on Appropriations to j
Mr. GIAIMO. If the gentleman will edge, that is true. - attend hearing; of a subcoa mittee of
yield further, the gentleman is not an- (BY unanimous consent,. Mr. Yocwc of which they ,ere not a member when -
swering my qt scion Floc da was allowed to proceed for 2 classified and top secret information was ,j
Ir. YOUNG of Florida. The gentleman additional minutes.) . - . being presented. .
1 me -he knows of some things -that Mr. CONTE. Mr. Chairman, will the ' That has generally been the proce-
ere very, very bad, and I asked the. gentleman yield further? dare which we have followed.
gentleman in that committee-to tell me, -Mr. YOUNG of Florida. Yes, I yield - Mr. GLAJMO. And I would Ike to know
and he did not. - :'-. to the gentleman from Massachusetts. ? from the chairman of the committee,.
Dtr. GIAlMO. - Does the --gentleman - Mr; Chairman; I will ask when char was changed?
Mow anything about-. these dirty -jobs the chairman of the committee, is that - DIA30N
LIr
Chai
a
l
.
.
rm
n,
et ma
that the gentleman is, clamming that our true? Do we have these rights and these continue. .
Government gave the CIA to do? Does ..privileges? Do I have a right to go over a,__ _?___ _? ~._ _ _
Mr. YOUNG of Florida. The gentleman . sit In on those hearings? w ? eau W. c uuuIL. wuusu 5em touy .
IA
- -- ------- -- - ._ .- not to consider having ? -,I- th t -
ou
a
,moo meth ^n ,t the e t}errian frnrn Florida will ei pernit all members of the committee i
..D rX ,5.^"..... 3l?C:.~__ CL-"- .. n .. ., .. ... Si, 1t is mho a nra.i to ornnri ?r,o-i.,e...
f
o
these ac- priatlotis that members of the ccnimi subcommittee wires they are consider-
man. knows very. =t, '.IQ
*:- grass to know what is going on., because committee for a number of years. .we can submit these issues to the Con-
.o~ ~....??.......?~-ions r..- e.._1__._
'r - - - - - - -?Y._ ~.r?.-r...~ _e T-'_..'.- L--- ~'?`-- .-__.. ...itte
e
;:. Mr.- YOUNG of rlorida. I yield to the-. gentleman from Florida will yield,: I .. desire to be autocratic, as the gentle-
gentleman Irom.MSassacnttset s..:`. would like to know when the chairman man well knows. I want to work with the
Mr. CO,-=,. I than's the gentleman for Of the committee changed tail rule. members of the committee in determin-. =
. - - . ._
I' refuse to yie~i any further, to this matter.
-__11,Lr.. Chat+-maa.:: the ?entlz;xnan. from = err r_r~r~,:n
- -: DL. Chairman .let me set the record GL IO,a. 11r. Chs.irman .will the for the ultimate step :niter this first baby
te
. `?------ ------ _ .. - .~w}+.- rrueie- ,r~..a eiiu- xcnu :.~: wi::~ 15
raigzt, . am not. c.3pny a.>o,la-sae U_I.
d - the .gentleman .from Connectiont :. Mr?..YOU:NG-of Florida, Not at this . the end result of the gentleman's edorts
.open about this sit motion :!"ae big a u---:? DIr Chairman . If I r a; use time, tilt. GILTZIO. Div. Chairman, if t` e
 - _. ~.:e? _._ _ ~_.. - ~- - - r __-~-.-.wrr~~~~Y.T n~rnizn--.Z-7C1TiC~~ - : _ _. _ ~v=s..
. LJIiLV V:/{ _ 1~ '~ _ _ .. -. is ..._...- = .. -...?_.. _ - - _..
Cdr: ?O Held to e-:-comm:t..e but not: a-' memce. of. t e~ - 1L^. MOSS: NLr= GtlairmsaZmove to
tt cn't'~~ense; as?d -`~: she the requisite number of words; and
'II`3G of Flan d3. Z
ti= ~~.. S~beo ee T -nn,nr` al the aWend.^ent.
ld-: GL~iO.:sr_ Chas. -3n z_;e budget- I was Test- (ZI-.'.iOSS asked ,_ d ,;as.given Per---
':wtot4 rouL.C, 1 - ? r + dens " wit t ~_~L^?O ?IlM Cn3L 1 CDii1Q UV __
h mueman from a+r^ia :-_'~L: -.-- -,----- 3'----- - - . -'.. =T'-.
with the prelimt^?a~ (On request of L-_ _l s o~: and b?
- -- - _ -- _a ~r~.\trxc mac al-? _
Mo
s w
s
e t, .
s
I could have: corye: here- Du=n -; lo~eC to procn 4 _
..o. t^a m3a from Texas_
. _ ~,
-
g
-
e
.-
.v. >.u. L~u,? ---?-
ar.
and offeriae that as. aline i.em. ~n --
to use this circilitor:s route-to preser'ie'gentleman from Montana (Mr. B?tCCnS)-
is correct gentleman y'eld for a brief questio ?
the
t
entler air
=
-
o
g
-
ent
of the amend, tegrity :,L. ,.TOSS. Z yield
the In
in egr: I move to We have.tried- and tried and t;?Ied to-
Chairman
i
f
Te:x as
- --
r
ro
T. . a
S
' strike the reclulsitz-number of words. hold the secrecy of Lhase matte's as
I dis- Mr. man. 2-yesrs
. -
Mr. Chairman- I would-like-to a.Sk a -closely as we could. It Is true that
a?o I emehas': ed the f:e on of a1-
ed attendance at such" meet
- coura
nd tcz'
-
tt
th
t
_
e
e
o a
ee
thhirman of
g
--further question. ofe ca the questicn- and asked thegentlaman from :~dcnta:.a-- members of the committ
committee toes follow up (Mr 'R.ncrrs) not to undertake to at-; hearings of all subcommittees_ I did not-.
the
f
b
y
tend the meerfn-. fae rules o
you.. icyfor the- ;ears
li
. tate r~; that has been the Po
c (
Zbelieve that : -._.
cut ut (tilt. e that 2 years ^- ago -- a"~ new new role s data_ : '_~Lcharts. coandmmifilestteeshall hearLbegs, kept reccsepa-- that I have been the ch =irma^ of the'-'1'
a .~__ eAo xz~r Airs not fnl=--
I have never suppord the idea--
on. any other subcommittee even though record au of the
ing th records
l orLS ect that members of the House Con mittee-
t: a -ember of that subcorn- ti
a
he was no
d
ncmutes is that right? Committees' on Intelligence, Perhaps-- - on Appropriations should not be able to
_ Mr. lL3HON. liar. Chairman- will the ..such. records shall be the property" of attend the day-by-day and ordinary
gentleman yield? : the abuse, and all Members of the House hearings of the subcommittee:
1Ar. CONTli Let us get at this Piece shall have access to them-' ,I,- MOSS.: L. Chairman, I do not - -
by to the gentleman from Texas, With respect to my conversation pith rent. to kicic the CLL. I am convinced
I yield the gentleman from Montana (Mr. BALI-- that this Nation needs a strong and ef- '
the chairman of. tape c correct cusY, and in view of possible implications iective intelligence agency. I am equally -
~dr. M.4HON_ It Is correct to saT that
at some past time, maybe it was 2 years of this tale, the complexion of the whole - convinced that the amendment offered
situation has changed. - - by :.the - gentleman from- Connecticut
mit -
Lepro members of the Com- a
mittee on ea Appropriations to spend d as What I say now, on more mature con- l'.lr. G**_inao> will in no way dimir?un
much time as they wished and could in-- sideratlon of the whole matter, is that I the effectiveness of the Central Intel!i-
learning. about. the whole spectrum: of. would liks- to present-this to the full. gence Agency. On contrary, if the House
Committee on Appropriations to deter-- and the other body had acted some 31
d with a large
Lhe
- meetings of all subcomittzes. mine how we want to handle th s in the years- ago- when I ;o le
me in
ask this further future Probably it will be deg ded that group of Members in ^t oduc ng aegis a-
aPMr. C Of all ll Let and-
question: At that time the CIA budget ' all ,,!embers - may attend the CIA tics to create a Join t Co=mitt t o othe
Central Intelligence Agency,
was considered-only by yourself and the heari GL 3O. Mr. Chairman, will the not today be in. the mess it now fiords
gentleman from Pdic'nioan t'Ir. C~?a . gentleman yield? itself in.
BERG) Mr. CONTr. Yes, I yield to the gentle I think that the disclosure of this line
;Lfr. ~d by a g up no, no. It was con man from Connecticut. ' -- item is the min um that the American
Subcod by a group of members of the. NM r. Did the gentlemana have taxpayer has a right to :now. The Amer-
Subcommittee on Appropriations. ,loan taxpayers need to mow about their =
:. Mr.: COhI : This year the procedure _a question.
'.L. COIN-r-. I just- want ton get this :Government It is. not going to impair
effe:tviznesa of thin
th
'
_
e
oco>n-?
nd=the Su
vas. finally-Changed a straight:.. .. in any.-way
encys oper'zio~--and I am not ma-
acts on the CIA
`from A
e not+r
f
n
t'
:
g
ers
e
The gen
?mittee on
s
Mr GIAIMO.-_ Mass5tOL2`ASf'ZT:i2 SLC.n..1disc, t::iiean }t r^po C_zed" and I__Crie:'a'~ed t,+, P- inteali_ ~....,.~-la.i. - iiUiVe reiramnea So Jar frVrn
-
rl in this I se??ved
1cei o1nT i.o- CC3t and ay p~?rtiC'-7
for ti-r1"- If
-i-
--
'Is, a
~tsoes.Of the-CIA: t:.3trare ilndect-by La.s t~- e time .c.:-'..ere orff7e:i oy
~.~o..,.-~,~??.r1 T
amount and which. should not be made from. Connecticut- Is- approved. . are w'ill' been apprehensive that coy Pa--wy-ipat!aa
y: Der := not have- a moderation or a temporising n->_ight seem self-serving i ,-t
some so. o
:
oL nee activat es
My- LONG of M
ill' h
is
C
th
:
: we w
a.ry
rc
zr
a z e an eii n- . e
e same
retrospective wey. However; I fi coW-
snswer beg wen that is given so far, that.:_ iaatian: a- termi.ai ion of them- Polled now-- to- emphasize one poi nt
b
. -. Th
e
14
.
,w,'- 1-"'- rot fT +_ rtar cos- +h
m
ern
er
ere
- -._ ,.rf?:-.r.~-?ia~'?-._"~.?`~'S _w T...;`=..F~yis`- .w~..1."/-:-~.K.~.;Vi:~,..lei;.~.`-.~;Vy:..:~:[` r ~r3r eazr;2
its' ce or 'tt?7-c'-s -P_."`an''=C-' . c~- - _ c.n I ink.a rci:.t : a~ well r3: e lt.`s not Just a Mater o:-putt._g a `-s
telligence services x.1- .oppose _? w Any
inforratia whatever:about the opposi-
tioaseries isinli,ahla I fo*-n a`inn S ' h
as.budaet trends and hudget.compo -nts..
It is a.rb'arnrtezist c?of intelligence work
that ca-,rli?cions anti.esHzi-aLas -are .hallt
pp jUy.mncairs,out.of.manty bits of in-
Son ice`{ ..which....v when :put :to.-4h1-_-
lorm a patte n and perb2,p&a.rzyea11ne
plcttiz:e.
The .reason fox auc s ? t ~4_, vet S e i Tar ,,,e ., ~.:.s v a ~.._ ..a .... _. _.,.
clear, b: C421Se amp, g :tee .ma.lc .t^a w 3 cared that it would rot he any - rte it figure Lathe fi.ture. If is also a.mat te= of
that f -titre n'h~
a
e
about this a.mendraent if.it.were the sole.
objective -of -the gentleman from Con-
necticut -(Mr- -GL.'.nao.) to .make budget
infoenaa:ion-avai-able to-the Members of
this body.benau.se.I feeistrongiy that the
-Congres3 should -: exercise an effective
oversight function-over the-CL and .tae
rest of the intelligence community:
However; the beneficiaries *:of this
amendment will not be the -Membem of
Congress, because. the :budget in.form a-
tion in question -s already -available to
them if they want to tale the trouble to
go and look at it.. The beneficiaries of
this amendmer_L be the public at
large, and this includes the intelligence-
services of the world. ?
A vote for this amendment will be a
- r
p p
windfall inc .the -n-OB. o Lim E-maz "_ ow a_ c
Pit to have Lta.absolute dollar .fto e for. figures in I. fixture years, and it also s
the CL revealed. However,- the trends. matter of when we then move to other . -
of Cie, dollar figure, and the 5L,,e and Intelligence operations and put-thcse g
trends of the components and as they ures.in the budget. -
relate to the total. if --.they-- were re- Where .do we fiery step in an.cpen
ve!21-_c, would be very damaging, to. the - ganezal debate on the subject of our 'a-
Agency. telligence activities in the years to come?_ .. -
-The money. after all, is for Intelligence . This is the problem twat-1 see. We can --
ope_r Lions; and the fig es would let talk about all the past years of secrecy in
them mow what we are doing.., - this Government and how there is.prece--
Ir_ ROIISS =T. What :the gentle- dent for what we are doing. We can talk -
man is saying is t :at when the dollar about all the legal reasnas by which we
figure would be debated on the floor and can justify what we are doing, but that
if the House were oven minute data is really not what we are here to talk
that ncen action on the floor -could in- about today. What we are talking about
fact hinder the. intelligence-gait erng today Is whether we, in fact, are going to
capability. -In answer to the question open up, not for our c'---?s and our col-
that the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. leagues and our voters, but for the ene-
EowArns) raised yesterday if someone mies of this Nation to see. What we ate
wanted to reduce the CrM budget .5 or doing in the intelligence field. That Js the
20 percent and somebody on the sub- - only issue before us today.
corcm!ttee who had knowledge of the Mr. Choir=an, I happy tobelie: e that
purpose for which these dollars would the goad folks of this country do have a
be used, such a member of the corrvmit- basic faith in the people in this Congress
tee: in his efforts to try- to prevent such and in our committee to tr to do what is
cuts, could, In fact, cause detrimental right as far as the intelli,ence.ac tivites
problems for our U.S. intelligence-gat - ' of this Nation are concerned..
er'ng operations_ Is that correct? ? It is line to talk about the fact t: at we
``. r. ROBERT W. DA-MIEL, JR. The have a un.ique and open society, as the
gentleman is entirely correct. gentleman from California did. I ant
own intelligence community.-.1 could pre- gentleman. yield? It is fine to talk about credibility in Gov-
dlct pith confidence that this would only 'ir. ROBET W. DT NiEL, JR. Yes, s er*:ment,-and I thin!, credibility
-fuel further demands for more public y:z.d to the ?entlema.. from Ne v York. in Government. 'However, I think we d.
revelations about_ou: intelligence opera- - Mr.Lam. Without trying sound st. oy the credibility of this very Govern-
-- bons.- d_ra.ma ic, I think it is also important to - ment when we start.handing out, for the
thing we -are doing in
recognize that there wre people's lives at world to see, e-;---r-
A minute-ago we were talking about
On3 l ans of the security of this country. and at and somehow be able to meet h n an
'_ "' a r_t
year n promising technical e Os. q....?... -....:..a SO ?r...__ -...- ..
...rt
1"-1- if
th
e
you
in
eon: - somebody . would e the .:I there Is a project under way. enemy -- I cwt to commend the g?n_ t,e.man
question: Z,VTIy? There would then! f follow 4
q a, ,lardize lives. and the success of- their nniis-, from Connecticut (Mr. GLureo) , not for
debste?-about the.intelltgence collecwon
farhn+mw C4ni 'i mn r.nt. +hon },o rli,n4rn ;sion.I think it would be a V",stmist.ake.to offering the amendment because I wish
- number of words , and1_rse in opposi eo n right, eves; bod,- knows it is in "Other.. .
Support this :a=endrrem, :nnd I very
Mr. :Chairaan, I cannot'and-4a-nd :C wheat ~.~.-a .
how any Member of this body--taho places n_ FD ARDS of Alabama..:r:r. money is in the bnget Th refore, now,
the interests of this cc-'--- firs` czn - chair- -=, I.move to strike the requisite if the gentleman from Connecticut is
the -gentleman yield? ana was given per- 1&mon to reuse and o~u w u~ve-a.pro er tir_.ei-
- l..i_ .. -.__ . ,i~-ennn r~m,+? r,,. ?.-r Fn r..n.?!- Fnw'fhu.l,o..~-
,rf... y e -
--title . S. . Cheri.= era, r a rem _: ii_hC_
has had experience in t:;'_; A: z=cy:ar:d.. m a-ny-ways there are in which I cant.:.tic Mr.. GL MO. `.L-. Chairman, the-gm- -
specific f.^_tell:~eneQ ex^, er:ice I th 'r _ out discs er is 5 L^. mutes. This is what - tieman from A:abama a; s Whe e co u~i
;It.caabe helpful to man'-af = -who can -I feel -;would be-- t1ae result of this, go. from here? -Tae r-hc'e t -nst of this
far ? the g?-r'~le as to :sz-,e..k, :bet ak* he I am gET eatly concornecl- I wonder how the gentleman from Connecticut-
debate by those who oppose the aW end-
"y vantages of-t Q Giaizio amendment :. The gentlemail- from Connecticut (Lc _ meat is that anytiing Which Lye do or say
 ~19Ja3 Ca~iCi JIUNt~s:tL.Vi'Cil-r1vv.~i
- ..= the ?, neit. a fr. >en`.?^'an iron l CLC Cell u~ t- a w y. _ - -~
y +3` 3 can - m2 on w-_5 available to you We i -
- or* di~uigel Is. gobaz-.Lo use .aid . to
O
..: - ':. - nor th.e-
it once it stn: ~_ b-St s what c you. We thought you would pro r t c 1r
stop
is why' I interests. We did not need to :.:.o the
ez enIrad is COcorr reC rect 'Iha pen 3 t ha.
9f Alani, ce:~ me so eatLy a_ ,..
3': dme nt at
? _ 'r =Lthis
Mi . GLILIMO. Obvious' , if wz are go- we List defeat I do not thing many people outside of
it S v
ing to loo's solely on what we do he.-e as : this i 7- e.
-recta a Pcssinie enemy en we ?ould _Mfr: GL-~T IO: We are nom ^ her, Cc^ ems have eve. zd me how mu
it ch. 17,
? _he hen.-
do absolutely nothing. and we. would.- much-we are not divulging.a= a by money is in the defense bill for t
AM ~,S~ rs
this amendment, we are. not i-al Intelligence. Agency..
]mow absolutely nochLth about t'n eop ng y P n-tim b which they
eopar ' `^? return?, so why must we now have the meshy y "
agencies. That-would be the Safest course. j
Bur- there is another course, as the gen- follow the same old concealment route?- can get this i'iformat. on. .
tleman lmo:s, and I'a .o the gentlemaa It is time tb.is conc ^ ?nent be stopped' In So I rise in opposition to the azrnend-
- . rec-ent -as we have- seen the- ment witich has been proposed by- my
is troubled by it< and that is to restore a which cconceaiment in big-S ve_rnment good friend. the gentlemaa_ from Con-
balance necticut. i ae subcommittee agogi Led.
The balance:.being the danger from causes to our_ Vat:on_
external: enemies-mad the. danger from Mr- EDZTTARDSof Alao3a~a I suppose. over this issue. and it appeared to me
secret internal-enemies" or their-agents. ? F might ag e--with the gentleman from that by about 10 to 2 they were opresed
There are dangers. from possible. secret Connecticut- if I. thought it would stop to ranking public the in orm?' ;on. The
b'.g governments. -: This concerns- the here, but it isnot going' to:stop here. '.. . vote in the full committee w??..s 33 a-4ain-st ' . _
American people, particularly today when I reiterate what I said a moment ago ma'-'ng the information known and IA-
we are reading'. that some of these very that with all the best intentions- of the- in- favor. So that gives the views of the
agencies are violating the laws, spying gentler from Connecticut and all the- Committee on Appropriations. The CIA-
best i entions of the gentleman from " budget should not be rn^-de public-
on the President of the 'United States,
reading his mail, breaking the law in Alabama, once we set this chain of events - I also hc.ve, a concern that this a=end i we-
reao the mail, of Senators and Con- in motion there is no way we can get on. went is only the opening wed,-e. Wna gressmen. We may say, well, they are not top of it. That is the concern that I have are really debating is the ultimate release ?
sacrosanct, but we live in a real world- I u oe the `Members to vote down this of l?Q `oof our ould Gove
prov? eeL my this
just imagi e. what an agency that does amendment.
not hesitate to spy on the President of 'Mr. :..tAHON. Mr. Chairman. I move to The inevitable result would be a serious
the United States would not hesitate to strike the last requisite number of words. breach of national security if we start-
do with the average citizen. This con- (Mir. ?J 'TO~f asked and was given down this road. -
cerrs me. I want to restore the balance.. permission to revise and extend his re- Ish. o T Qg Faas~~? ere not f ool-
I do not think that we are going very mark-S.)
far in doing something to restore the Mr_ M.AHON. ',1r. Chairman. I never President :sk?Vd for certain secret funds -
balance. Certainly, we do not want to did think I would see_ the day in the "to facilitate the use of informal agents."
tives when we would They kept this secret information in
t
a
se of Represen
give evidence of our intelligence opera- ' Hou bting whether or not to reveal cer- George_Washin-ton's time in as separate
Pions to any-possible-enemies of our coon- bede a
al in the r
m `-I, agree tail heretofore important secret in_for- journeasurJ and I do.net.-
an
try. the gentle .__ knows tha~
vith him on that But I think our people oration to the Soviet Union and the Com think such gocd endorsement as the one we
would rest more securely if they felt that munist conspiracy.
we' in the Congress were really concern- I do not rise in defense of the CLV The have before us. .
itted Commonsense also dictates that we
lveswith what these agencies CL', has made mstass and comr
ough, committees
th
S
e s
ng oiuse
. are doing. illegal actions. So has the FEZ So has should not upstage
The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gen- every other agency in the Government. of the House and the Senate that are
I rise in defense of none of them. I de- studying intelligence. Why not let the in-.I expired. tleman has
nrntnce all of thin who have 'violated formation be made available to them a _d :i
._
n b
to
ea - -
a
y
ft e and
-_
unanimous consent. ]dr. Enw.>abs or Ala- . the laws o
bama. was allowed to proceed for 2 addi-- body else. -I think we ought to do every- us before we decide what aci:o:s c? w
should take with respect to this- matter?
t
it
eg
ldr. GIAIMO..: L"think the Amer can .merit of In
--- The r ongress has not In the pmt nib- - First. It.1s unwise to begin the unveil- -
_ ..
they
that we -the Congress.' were looking
Into what these-agencies are.doing_ The - Agency- Those who have had oversight- ernment and become the only nation on
Cent-,?.,t Intelligence Agency Earth-it is incredibly-to thus ieepard-.
it
_ Ise U1 U Lug ..>g
_ ----- ears as we have in the eurrens Dili; to S ond
we have made great t progress iii the last . Ye ec The precedents o y
-: year, as the gentleman- well knows, but impress our will upon the Central In since the days of George tiTi as- . year-,,
t?llige ce Aoanev and upon t re G-ove'n nc ion the validity of thenosiCOn those
Mr. I uwclru:5 of ti L u e-:Lu- .,.'Union knows the amount_ of the CIA
the -
soect, I think it Is. fair to say that there Third. We hallot justify u-staging
The Soviet Union no doubt has
of the House and nd S en
et
bud
itt
g
ees
. elect corn ^
might have been. a better way to handle
ve- bge a the pas'. Z.don't fault some informat on, of course, but are we ~ that are working no:~ with respect
s- bud - i:
the CLha
those who have been responsible fore_to document and authenticate all of this to this matter. budget in have-bee .But I- do think_.ve_ Information and give - them more and
The
a tremendous.* step. this year- in -more sod more in. addition to what ,.Ley e should give consi.dsion sn--a-s - to .-
have air ady received? I say no.
-bringing the budget to-the f s co he IInde;.our rates we donot now propose forn:atlon regarding.th,-C We ar e giv-a
The thing I am :, nS to say"is let us .ciSc need to ,-ow. at is m the exec -
tive branch. In the House every Member TI e CH omaTe Terc.- ia limn of _ t~e '_
1-t that system wars. _ -. gentleman fromas has err-ed. =
L, entitled to top secret info oration un-
I do not agree for a. minute Mat Me ; fy^
from Connecticut is in:erest'd der certain cirCu-^istances it he feels that (By unanimous conzet,. fir. oar
gentleman
?
he.needs to !MO:". vms allowed to proceed for 3 add
t
then'
a
but I do a` 3t t+:e import Of whams ---- lV-'en.I"v::o: e
the centlemA is s:a t:ng.io do-will lead somebody to meet me on the street -in d - Zeir. 1i~ON. bin. Chairman, Z. r;,. 1'3
'
--- ---_ -- .- i- r,, +, + anri 7 --patty -believe th,
 -.,:SApprojr~d~:~or=Rel:e~s~'7~1.Q6~'`I.~I'~~ =:~lA-f~pP9.fi-~b~,F~OQ.O$
October 1 '975' CONNGRESSIOti',~L:-RECORD=HOLSE:. _ :9359--121:=
-*~ will - nvest tror.s, and ever? other function- cur national security. -Perhaps the dam-
14Sr C~'3wRG. mfr. Chai.....9p 'I '
the., ..-.. 'or'`-`e Bureau. There u no line item+:or - ass will riot be aooarent today, but the
.ieman e1c2.
Nir. ?L-EON. Z yield to the?gentlem9n . any ot= er indication in budget 'hs; damage'to ou.* successors will be loo ..
zn M1chi a- - - 'siden_W?ies-the amount 'h e Bureau spends' too soon to-the regret of our grandc- - ; J
Ar. C B G: 3d-. C~air"_ s . I of inaeiligence-or coun-2rintz;?13ence ae-_ dren
associat2 myself with the remarks of t~^e -i~TitieS. - - - - - - - - e i itial step 'cf an-nounCmv tag ?. -
gentleman from Tenons. I just m not be-- Mr? C ER3r'~G. Mr. Cha-_man, w 2 -- pace in our budget where the CLk buc>- - -
ld? et is contained is valuable to our a^ zs
i
e
lieve this House-will support this amend- a gentleman y
ment. It strikes at the very vital secu_" i:y M,L. MAHON. I yield to the gentleman - T?+h_is gives them valuable information, it
interests of the Trotted States.: . from Michigan. ? - - gives them a "base line" from which tiney -
mnents that the Mr.- CrD 3 G. I know about the can deduce useful information. it enab es
d th
h
e srg
ear
I have
oppeaition l;mows LY.e?i:;'.ire:and so forth... PP31 budget and I can say there is within then_2 +o watch and track trends. it ers--
isbill- bles t em to d scortinue they eear^h
i
h
ng respotL
er
That is not-the?poi.nt at -all. The point that Intelligence gat
t is dedicated to ties in the FBI budget that are not line for this useful information Ln' -o+ther
t1,
a
Is mere is an agcy
gathering intelligence, a very-di mutt as- ' items and are used for the specific pur- places, it enables them to corifrm other
to gatl`:er it pose of gathering intelligence. ? information from clandestine sources. it
t, -ands"ft' is ,tryt_
' ~ sig
_- - - _ ~._ MAHO T M
~? I -e_~" npena the foorigates of opening -al r"a . .
Chai
e
r
r
e
th
b
lr, 42C l3".?J- 4111 KiCJW Vi we vu........ -
.:. so we- /mow-what-is going on around tihe un~mous consent that all debate on activities to the scrutiny by our enemiies.
this amendment and all amendments . We need intelligence to -survive. We
world. For us to-take a fi st step which ~n
-___._ _ _--._ -._.. ..- - APOl7-,o mith.rlna PA hna`i'~> cur;.H_
,
r
to me that would be most disastrous. Texas? a em~ri oss .sa vin age A us _..d:
I would certainly hope the Members Ms. HOLTZ IAN. Mr. Chairman, I ob--* an advantage-to our enemies. We shot2d
d old give ve*y very sn'^ous ject. - not knowingly impose- such disadva-n-
i thi^ b
other steps which will involve revelation . a l ~ulw.ua.. ., Laacic i , w -- _- _. ________
of certain things then as we-move-along, -.the request--of , the- gentleman from open access to our defense forces. 'This -
P d d; d ~_
i
t
o
consideration as 20 -the actions we are The CrZALR2LAN. Objection Is heard Cages upon ourselves and give such-ad-
going to be asked to take today:- Mr. 'MAHON. Mr. Chairman. I rs vantages to our ene-hies.
._ a .._.~ r ..1, aeti..,ts .?, l.:vPT?'J 1.SPT1'1PT of `nA t7n~+.~e ,.-~n nlr~i..
y iiavc LiCC,i Ma Wa I-aac -
matter of the intelligence for some time. this amendment and all amendme^.ts all- of the information concering- the
I think we have tried to do what was in thereto close in 20 minutes. CIA very si-npl_y. This ought to -satisfy
the long terra best interests of this coup- The CHAIRMANN. Is there objection every Member's curiosity about the CLA
tr7. Some information has been made to the request of the gentleman from without allowing the Lnfor: Iaticn to be- -
available to us which certainly if it got Texas? come Down to our enemies.
out would be seriously damaging to the. CIS. HOLT7% N. Mr. Chairman. I ob It does absolutely no good to claim
"
strong
capability of the United States to know ject, that one wants to mair_ta=.n a
what is going on. as we do know now. I . The CH..4 RMA.N. Objection is heard. inteligence facility" and do ore tai lg
_ would hope-very seriously that the House Ir. MAHON. b?~. Chairman. I ask after anot:per to deg*ade it and to ;eop?
would not accept this amendment. unanimous consent that all debate on ardize our security. _
Mr. ZIr1HON. Tne gentleman is .cor- this amendment and all amendments. No-other nation discloses its intent
act. The-persons on the Appropriations thereto close in 30 minutes, e nes and security activities, no a=ide
commitees of the House and the Senate T-he CHAI_RM ANN. Is there objection ?-democracy, ever. Their wisdom .should
t b
- from New Yort - `-? -'' LLB v?) -": operations and . the costs, I will tr, to --
itr, enn~~un: M? r},~tr-,~? t; rt (By. unanimous consent, Messrs.. An- deal with lam or her without disclosing
:gentleaz_+3n yield? :; _ _ (By 'unanimous consent, lira Joie I,. : not satisfy our enemies. If .any con- -
oL the- people- feel- It- would- be -wise for The CMA.IR AN. The Chair. will state . -Bug some secrecy .s absolu eiy necesvary
us to spill :our. Innermost secrets of the - that:. all Members standing at the time in Intelligence gathe-ing. I believe it Is
be different.-But-:F do- not think many- The motion was agreed to. -t want as little secrecy as posstale.
r
=?Red China and everyone- else? It is be- -The CHAINMAN. The question is oa advantages to our' ere hies. Why do
___1 _ _ Tr .,. e~ . , ..roos s-1 4 i the mntfn t offered by the gentle nsan something that helps our enemies and
we e 1 stitilent .
ou.-seives what"the situation- is. why- do all amendments thereto close in 40 min ,. _
n
be available to be- seen:- So I do think' - Mr. tiLAF1ON. i`ir. Chairman, I move azn a forma ion awmiaole tv
I-, a-- far' enounh if we lmow that all debate on this amendment and satisfy any inquiry by any loyal con-
e ignored.
have been looking at this budget and the to the -request -of the gentleman from no
details of this budget for years and try- Texas? V hat help or advantage does -the
Ing to do a. creditable job. Under the new till. HOLTZ:,L~iN. Mr. Chairman, I ob- American citizen. derive from exposing
procedures everyone will be advised of ject. - the CLa budget to public and enemy si:-u-
the dollar amounts and the hearing will _ . The CHAIRMAN. Objection is heard.' tiny? I can see none. any Member can ob-
t ? 11 the i
' t'
-
?v O_ asp a..d was ~pn_op__~~on o. e i hrr!o
e
age to Lheir ability because they area (1L. H1RI
line item in that budget?_ - given perci_sion to re ise and e_xtend.his says that if his amendment prevails he
r:: ering bureau and there has been no dam-. Y3=:x(i , ieiu .tl lU.~ VLiU LV LILU. 11L_aL.C.) (IeieaLeC. li -ir. passes, -Lnere will 'o? -no
d rt,i: f th ~--A _Arr Cr
?T
'GT ti '
111)1. t:VLl Ca.Y - WLaY La. WSC i.1L UC-Y..-.u.,..
? budget there is- aline Ite - on the FBI 'ro:vTyieided't'eir time too Mr. GLxrmo.) enema i " F
Mr_- MAHO'L The budget -of the FBI remarks.) will otter another amendr-i '- to di close
-
dent's TECHe5 t-is included Lim the I pre Cllr. .I-"t-.J l 1 -: 1CU i UU Rrs "1Vel1 Live is inerea Ur-,: Shirt L. .
serted by the Justice State. Ccrnn_rce . perilssic ' to rev'se.and' extend .his re- . Unintentionally or not, tr's .1=end- -
Subcomrnittee of:the Co:n :tutee oa yp- marks) rnent is detrimental to our intelligence
UILJ{.._LCLi a---:c. ..cam... c.,~o ...,..mac,, i_..I C. .Ly-.~.vv~_,.1 :1_~:.. _~5ec~ _~tr,
-
i:~a. l~ submitted ..o tad Con.' L-S3 ev?rr. f om : L^ .. i . _.^ 1.. v' AIL 3 oe 1 : er i- rt.e ;ie~ as m,.C~:i - Y~
every ac'ivity of the F3?- c ia_..Leve we have Glade a serious z; . take tonal secu,:ty wit:i i:o e bsrce.- Ent to
pursui ;' of r ede_-ai fuggitives,. ci rl :rights Ln - capability, and tr:ereiore jeopa l:notiv. _
 ~roy~d Fcsr Fase~~~-~fi114 Ct~?~?P3'1~ Ofl~RODO_~t~f3Q2~OQ,~Z ~;- -'~.~_. ; ~Nr ::
- - - ~,t~rs-. an i.:c.-??=e in~f~..nds fo' our m;.~=:~~=~~ ??--~ , *: - orobiem anal do not e_Ye:r
-_ Some~~.we~ Pro'':da our a -, avert o.he_ - abou,. riffs :. ;
? -- ,.._...., .,,,, ~hiC~ is of no?. ,a*=-=r", ::ou..d ~~~ .,~ it in ~'^_a fu~::re. teat-tc~ .s-prob..b'3
-
-
~`"-~---'- --
- -:. ._
'_ Ot-''~..'~. laC-r?' c: L:?L Gir-1 C~:vc;.~. ~.c~-. _.... ~_
-' sit _ such an amendment:._.
sem;eS_ -.. - - ~ - ... ..~;. _ .. r~.; wcuid bz .:.:,; o;.m rescncn,
- - In+,euigence info;..aten ~ ore e~,.,.cae: '.~'~=-:?? is ?t,.eir sages. O^_ '~a-other ??,?^,.'. 'I''._is county has not approved of the--
:.bud~'ta-'y~~~. ^rich is ~"3W3 ,-' n.r,~,', nay t e Ccn~ -ess has Pe-^~-"-'iced. abu_~s -
. .a2uable to- ou;: eaem:es, than to our-.: and a3a:r. LC I ~-?re :a a Cz~.o 3 by our iatellience- agen~::as. Tama :-ate
- - _ ,- pwicion Sor a potznua- adve:sa.-3 ~ eve hsd aathori`y Lo ove:~e~ th?,r. -
citizens. ~. - '~L'. Dar ~-would'ee my reaccon-an ^.~aouyc~...eat .
(z3y unan:meus~oon~-=w ~ ~; agzncies have been remiss in uae;: dui.:...
- D.+`nn- Yielded ,his time Lo dir. S;~.ix-- Burgos u ~:-ould z ?im:a-?cintei,9,o~~r in eYercia~g oversight, . in ezz,-c~s~:..-
' recng- PretFd as a reduction in e?'ort to main- Seti~'=~=Y ana authority over theme ~.?~.i--- -.:
ti Tae moast_-asides waica hsve bees. ' -
To~?) ~ h
u
eS
a
_
The CI~'~..7?-J3.4,~I_ The C
a body. of lino:.?ed?e~sur3c.z^: to
.. nines -.the gentleaz.'in Irom. -Wisconsin -.. committed could- not- have- occ',n-*_?ed ?if `---- :: _-
- _ mare rational defense d~cisiors:, ~ Con,r?sshad been on the ai?rt. ?- -.. -. .~>:. - -_ "_ i
(.tiir.Os~>: -"_ ~- all I Can _~Verave-only: to lcoi at.t:,e?Period -. - _ --
- ,4Yr. OBL'Y:.~Lr..Chai~aa, If tae waoie F?ouse is not ?oi.^_g io have:- .
? ? saY is t'Y t0 iPhasi2e tlle?-point.I tried..Lr'~ed=atziy Fr?c~dino ~TTOrid. tiVar II to-~ _ _
mow that_morecadegi:atz inteL'iSence- the prero~ati.e of ess.?-uni^_v the cor:-- - .
to emphasize before. We are revealing. ,~ ~,o ~; duct ar.d the items of e:tpenditure~oL?-`_
nothing whiciL-is- Hat obtainable. frorn? - ; at:Zer':n' * gold have ale_,,ed t--.. r1Les? = ti;ese iLteliigence a~enc:es, teen it'-e com--- . - -
. ~ other sources in rougiilY e io have to do so is a'-~. - _ _
less silly ~ in? . a': oided..:but it milt ha': e been snort- ~--- g
this Confess-loo'r a L?t~le ? ;: as-t=--t F'i! ==~isfy the county t:~at-
Lhe process of considerins3 ho?a we man- encd, and loss of lives and human su,:=- the Public :nieres~ is bein? pro%zctad. I:.
atheriag budget of L''-o ms=i=-"~. I ~'ouid hope ~e have
.age. the inteiL3ence-g c r~Le that if we adopt th1; amp^_dm2rt
? the Cinit2d States_ Virtually every Hoge-:. learnzcl scme.hin? since our tl?n-*-ire' ~z Coup? r_ct: on tae Pocr, do more t..*+.sa?
tir?e argument. Z have heard, save two,-- ta:y cf Stute declared thst "?encl_mea. deal v^ta tae whole ngure_ ~d that if trek do ~
-lir. D:L'Q D3I3Ir.L. i~Ir_ Chairman, I Tae gat'r:erin~ of Ltiorms~:on on -or- not do the job the House and Senate v,^:ll # _
-rise in opposition to this a-mendment. .?,. eign governments ~..^.d the nrov~ic-:~, of -have to ur_de?-ta~e it even at tne~ rind of
Basic to the compact that exists, be--? funds for this- Purpose is as old, as our: chat map be.serious in;ury to the na- 3
- green the. pecPie of the T,nited States Nation. The matter was debated in Con-' tionai interest. ?:= ... - ~~- ... .: -' =- : -- :
. and the govern.^'ient, is the P?oPle's tight stitutior.31 Conventicrs, and secret. fu.~..s .I?TSe CIL9L2l~L1~~i. T'n2 Chair recogti~es~- _ :
.. $o lmow.-Ours has by-and larva. been, an wise employed by Presidents ~yashington... the oentl?woman: from New -Yore .(yLS:. _
open government,. Puffins: its t-ust in - ~ and .rladison. - .. -: ?,. -- = -- ~? ;;T_ -HoL~::c~*r) . _ , - _ - ... : :__,.-. -- -.,: ~ ~: - -
. the collective ;.good. judgment.-. of _, the, It is tliarefore not an issuz: recta...., . - (~~: HOLTZ1~i:1I3 asked and was ~: en ? _
? electorate.- :,;-.' '_ ~ . ? `. risen. Z submit; ~Ir:. Cha~~~^_ that, we- ermission.to- revise and-est2nd: her re=~? -
Also basic;.ar_dit is stated.in the Fro-- ~,re taL'?;?:n?a3outsz-crecY,when-weshould_ mar'.;s.) _: ~ .. -._ - - .- ~_ __'-.,.'
amble.: to our = ConsLtut:on, e.YPanded - be taming about discrerion_ In our ante-- ..Is. i?OLTZtitA,v. l~Ir. Cnauznan, I r'se:
? upon irl Article::I; is Prov'-sago for fthe. cou.?~e: ~1ioe zli~e-- is?nzCessary tu~adt in strong sLPPo~ of teas ame ndme^i _-
common defense: I believe if- ode de.eaG pow.^t.al , ceica wiL:.require dl;closur~-_ of the
- ~ this amendment;, the will. still meet both __c?~ oth2rebody ron-".rms to DP ?c~o*- amount of. the CL~ budget: becaus? is -
~. 01 these basics:-: ;:- -. raises issues not Orly aoout kcal respon-'
-.This amendment is do.~-nright da-n?er' : o:. the CL?~, and one; sfter conside!-able= sibill.`y- of the Congress, no.? only abou~ -- .
.,.,?
pus and it is'not-4uite,so simple-in its .i^vestigation as to- r~is-b~,c~`~round and the balance of power_bet}reen Congress ---
Q'1a11F1Cat:oIIS, and as t0 - his character. - _
_ application: is it may appear at:.Srst.. ~, and the E'resident, but also about wan.---= -
i ~ blush: It~. would be meaninSiess .~ the -- T~~Y-one~ of -our - num..er >;now 'fie --the Corstitutiorr requires of us_ . ?,-?- -:: ?. _
{ conte?a of. budget oversight to publish.a sPeciScs of thinapproprlaiaon: : I' recently re^d a. thotrgntiul artie'.e- ~.--
~ total figure for CLa ooe:-at:ons and it can. Pn_or . ~ esc:sses have- been = Prey= w'~ich Z placed. in ta> CO:iG~~.SSiOYAL. ' -
-anteed-that anoL`ier thomug'r.ly_ `esplorec., so -tnat? these
{ ~ virtually b?' ~_ ~. - ? ,.;-. oversight ate now alerted. 1'~co~ la;t July. that was pubiish2d by
~ : - 3 esr wit see a demand Sor =rreste: d..,,ail. ee..r.~:n3 ,, a committee of t.'~e Bar :'i:.seciat,on of _
{ For ;v?iLh: o^ay a Hat doter figurs as- to any Foizntsal abuse. Let'us ~o~z ~o;vn the City of New York. T:.is ~: a.~o-: - -
:_..,^t
'~ ??;^.?d Via. C~~'3C`:7'_t' tL: ago therefore, ur;e .that we reservs jud Went
Second. t..aFCon;ti.~~on i?-~uL-~ trsc Z eror~~d m~se:r bo~'t pubL'c?y a~ nerd reserre decision and Zrote down t_'Z:s
"1 reguL~r sta,.ament snd u?oemt o '? z pri:ateiy in favor o; :-,z,~o public r e amendment.
receipts and e?tpendi~:.*?es of zs pu :ic total buc}~;et of the C-L~ I did so in the The CFi~..T w~.L-~~7. Z'he Ch3i.* r?co3-.
money; shall-be pu~ishe~ fmm ~.e to -belief that our foremost adversary had sizes the,entleulan iron California (3,1:, -
time:" F_ere a3al~, we do not meet t.:e a pretty Clr?~r ;r?aa ~; r? -~h~r r:,.,+ ~,. "~ -____-?
come to this count:p from abidi,^.; by rite ~--- v _.y ?.,,'~., ?,~j - ""~ ~cv~:uru. m3rbs.) _ - - .` ; -
On flier ? o~*~er hsnd, the .ar,~u.^ie.^_ts l~L. LWGG^I"I'. tiL-^. Chai:-tran, I rsa --
- - co>.~titut3onaLrequlr?men: that at iea.~t ag"~t the reveallno o: the total bud~t in support of the amendment. -
era put in the?bill Lha lump suzn.ot the ? were not entirely :-iLhout- merit, .and . I thiLlli it-is time that t a su:shina.
:?,CZ4 appropriation. I would just live to them did not seem to be any overriding ~ R-ere allo;ved to- come in a IitLe hit_ This-- ,.
~- :point out that.the-Atomic Energ Corn- plti,i)r ul:erest in- masino. tr_is figure- is not a question of sec;-ery or ro secr2c- : `
_ n has had its lump stun appro?rid- knoc+n. - _. - -.. I
" ' lion published, and it has beer a matter..- gut I ~ ~ LVe have a boo's here t;^_e committee-
- " of public record fora lop, -tilde.. That ._m oL*lo to vote agalrst this" report of appal 1,000 secrets of the Da-
amendment. because I heL'eve, 2;. has partment of Defense in :hick they tai
-- publication has-not Ied to the disclosure. bin-mer_t;oned by some_ of our col-- about the money for fire SA3~I-D. But
~an~ ~ ~~rets and it -has not en- : 123~,~ ; r~3t this gl;est;OII Oi mss:ng the -yet do c-e ~o:v hor.~ the 5:~E-D wor'$.s? -
t? of th...a country. I ~n.ns. total bt:dget public is a mat`,,er which T"ne a^_swer is: No.
? -that is an. important. ea:..mpi.-,. -? should be carsidered is a calm and red- ~ We Nave the del;;is of the mane. -
., ;ti*r. [^,a;rrr,~, Z-would suggest to t,`re. ? ~ 1, +? Y for
so_ed ~~osp.,ere in both ,.rre Haase snd Tliailaad, and it :s s?eiied out. Bttt do ^.e
:blemhers that triers- has been no real -the Senste Select Committees oa Intel- i-?~ow wisat t`ne Wpney is actuail;~- used -
. .proof-just. bland unsupported a..~er- ligence and should be included in the-' for? No?
.lion-that -publication of the total.. ~~ p3cka~e of recommendations. o
smount o ven the CIA would in any way ,. bve can a tYnvugh the FBI bud^st.
lLir. Chest-reran, I kno:~ that when I Dc~s th^t. tell is whst they are doing?
erdanoer tr..is country. [~Te ought to adopt yot~j for otu? select coctmittze, I as- . The ans;ser is? :70.
. tree amendment orlered by the gentleman curled that this was goir?g to be'one o1 - I have sat on, the Defense Co^lmittee
from Connect:cut.(R.ir. C-L~uo), the ~13tters tr_at they were ;Dino to con- fo
Th
I2
C'ri
-
~i
.
r
_
e
or 13 yes:
.
s, and I have heard the
IR..tiL9~Y. T:ie Chair recog- Sider ye1^T, very seriously. This matter of C;.;1 co^le in and tzl:~ to ti,, and Z i:ave
sizes the gentleman from Illinois (?~Ir. ma',sn~ ~~ CZ~ bud,?t public is not a heard the o*.her intelL~~~ce agencies
t1~-nslsso~) ? ~ Here cuestion. It 'r_2.s been around for
(1Ir.:~~iDz ON o! Illinois armed and ~ come iz ^n?1 give us L-.~orL?aiion. They -.
number of ?ears and i; one of those code in and brei us in secret sessions.
? was given pe_--+~i^=;on to revsa and ex- Gnawing things about v,-hich there ass But I rr11 tell *i:e _l*e ~ ,_
snd his remarks.)..: -.~ mbels tila~ the bul.~
1?Tr. ANDERSON o? Illinois.'vlr. Glair-. been alt ?;finds of debate; ~ nd taatlde- of what they ~_ii us iu just about what
bate, it seem; to me, silou_d tame p.sce- we read in the newspapers, It just so
. mss. I thing' we have an illus~ztia.a in . ~ ~e:?1?ct cor..z~-litte-~ ?~,helro they 1'L ve happen; that *r-le ir_fa:3-:atiorl preser_ted
the debate this afternoon of the fact that the advantage of c~iag !;pen witnesses to comrrlittees in secret session i; very
. the most difficult decisions that confront from both sides . - . mandated-. a coolpie..e investigation of- orders shout kee?ing poisons. ?
'pOrtaLlt: prinCipl.. - ' .the lnt?1ti2anC9 ~i onrv TY,o ..,..,..+..... ..c
,._~,ulc ~uc~sure; or Lne necessity-for se-.dative lane a~ "_ __~ ..... T-,,..,.~ ~.., ,_~,- ?;,a~.gs; and tiLS is a succt in. flint a.i-
Crecy in the carryina?out o~ the- inteili-- 1 e cou.d mare them nerd, _ .rection: _ _
_: aanrafnnn+:....-. _ ~ .- ,- aCCOrdL*1g13, it~seems t0 mP ;11-a.rt.icw,' ?--_. a.f?? na..:~__ - --..
::made some progre~ in' confiding r --- - ""au:.irr? ~ _ ..~, `': to taker one stzp toward o:eaier con~t-es- '
e_~ami-- ~~- C1,.airmaII,? we seers to be ope_r=? ?.sioral scrutiny and oversight of i*ltelli- .
_-
nation of the- CIA.~budJet to.'lhe entire .rating for the-momerttin an
t
h
~
a
~osp
ere
_nenc?activities: TI?eiramenr.,ment?ottld
suxouLmittee;. and in: permittin, access of-'"confron+.ation and.. accordingly. T 'bar the use of the ftl^_ds Pl'ovided by the .
to such nz3terisl to?everr .demaer of tl,~s tllir_~ we should r~.serve judgment anal `- appropriations bill before us for th
bocLp.'I shall: avail myself, of that access
e CL~.._
the atmasphere is calmer snd the com- ~ .Their pur?ose?is obviotsly not to prevent
. this afternoon.- .-:,: =: .. :. mittees have renor'u~d_ - .._ ._ - .
=; I. thiut we will further have thP=ri~hr.~ ,...___~-_ _~,_ .. _ _ __ ?~ . aPPropriations of ilmctc fn-' fho ~,..,___
. r~aency seemingly under attack f: pal sev_ House to f~ - --- _~? .,_. ~.~~,~ ~: `'~~-
- - ~. the recorlme_^_dat:ous of our own select- eral di:ectrons, it night Le well i_f ~-e do' whether they =vast t P ov=,-ai~uestion of .
-- =: coc~ittee; to them decide this very. v?~ not oven. u 1 b~ ~ .
.-. _ lm nn r+ont~ },o~,.. .,,.,:... -----`-- -.. P y??-t anOt~er Ernst ?nr r?,a +,,..,. a.._ ~__ .._. - -- .ld~?a ..
'~''_L.~c::i~a--and.Z~in+rthez^ -~/.~, :. y,: 1s soe;ecair_~, to be ::aid :.~r .o ,,paci^.; _ ~riatio ~slY,.-?. ????`u the 1lzpZbers of ~ 4
flee-domestic s:oyi^_~ here or `u'^e Cr._'??...a - _ lesrn one very imoortan > t.~_~_r?.,-the. -
- this ''oLSa tJ 'IOt.'_ dories tip Gi~._:.'^_o.:.t
.e _^stoi t':e.~nr'd just d.~-s n^; cca:-- --
~
' .:racLGy. a.oroac!_ ~.:d :?-" r^lv;.. ir.JU::' t:.a~. mar: Lr^ w: - - - ie- ur_der : he sa_n~: :^.:rs '.^..;t a> ~_',~ --...-.-:.-
e:ct.-sv3gantf P=o~=`~s ii3~ - L`:a- Giomer- .`.,r,~e C: ~'~~?L.~.`+. Tha C:zair r?cod~~zP.a ,.: ~ ri%ht be- mor?= incl:r_zd taws rd r?- . - -
r,.4plores are made to tompzte eu''zctivel~ -- -_
'against other:rlairn~nts on the public the- gentleman-. from- Indiana-_,(4L*. vealirg the bud,et of tine CI3-i; t^c?- -_'
purse. - ;~" : ~: ~ _ ~---: -. .:_ i~h*-ins) .. .. _ , .- -. Russians Would reveal tire b~sda?t o: toe __
spit g-
S of Indiana as'sed ^^d was ?KGB, but they do not and are ~t
~I ~'E:P
(~L~
-
.
.
~.ir. Chair^:_-an,Z:!.3e n.;7 coIIe~t:es Vo ~ ,zn ermission to-revise and extend his- to.- - - .. - -- _ ' -- :-. ' .-
suDport~the?propcszd-~?ndxerzt as a". ~~~ P _ ,l m
small-but useFul strP in. the d?*~ectzon. oT.. remar~J ._ , -- -. -. ._ - ;.:-.~ - . I also have the f..P ino. ai~oup~-Z des : -
-~. ,.~ _ ,-r. ~[~'~??~.S oL In~.'.az!a.1.L. C'nairsian.. not kr_ow that t,`ris is true, that sue IiGE -
~ L^.teili3ente. - ,.. _ t ru.i, ~~. u............_ ~._._...._ _ ~~_ __ --. _ _ - ---- - _ _ - :._
 Yom- ~__.!.. ..' _ L. - - -. .~' _ - s _ - '-
_ _'~?_ ._~.,,.. - - /^f1+`:f_T?FCCT(lti.l.T'R~('C)RT7-Tr~C~LISE` .. HJJ13 - ;..,r
~-: ge~ce ope-aeons have a la`. more money ~~:? C1L-.=-_?-OTJSS~'?IYi :~`~ed- a^d ~..s doubt t~.t ou_~ esent;sl secu.-i~ requi:n-.
.. T ~.- Q??on ..d.--.,~;~;nn r? -o~~~e ~d eY;,Ld h~ men's mould t:e harmed if t.`~._'~.~ in_or.~.a-
' fete ;moaledgs becat~e ' en, tyeT-:: ~ asp. rvuv:..:.v~. _,~. L..~.:'.,-., - -----?---- ---- ----- -- -- --- - ---~ -
f ~. =`~ot~'.d Il}? 'o d'^ec: a G_~-on :a rye :o!z. Fo: tftls ~iz.?-tber it s a. ? ess7 corz -
are1"n3
'
h
t
nez
~?
e
ld mow w
/hi~^.d !.n sti'aat Z th:,,?C s a verp irwDor-, ma'se- of `~~ aWendm?~:. t.~e ~oJ;i.L an_d it has gotten easier end easier ^.s ~e
Cant area. Za spite of deten.z, t ^for- ^~ f>"'om Co~ ^.ec:lcu. ll~L-. G:.~co). ~ have disctssed t.'te ram~scations of whet
iuaate>y world corlrronta`~:on sr'2 es:s`s it t =z o^?^`~rmaa'3 intzn"=on o~ `? h3?:e "'tea a-~endW?n: r.-ould do. becat:se oce .
with the better part of ~.he world. t..e fig =e for the CLa c~ :~v?sied a.~ a sig^?~`~cant ar~.~ent has not been
Mr.. Chairman. " it~ just see-^-S LO me '''e hers. or is it the gentleman's i^.tea- refuted. T'rat is the argent that this
rigs addi~onallp t:i reduce that ?noun:? is the first step is the direcCon of tot~_.,?--
th
b
f
e
`
e
ore
e
cart
.~r.g th
that we are put
noise. I do not condone actin!'+~ of tl?2 Is ~` ~ ;eat!emaa Batts:led as s member revealing the budo?: of the inte~erce
~~ CIA or the F ~I, which have rioLted the . of t:a? comm!tte2 w':Lh the floure that nova commu2i~.
rigat~ of American citizens ul,duly in , exists? - ?~Sl,r.cil;ne should be allowed in," it was
the past. HoweverrI submit, air. Chair- l`~Ir. GL-1;~f0. `7ill tine gentleman said. I: the full Lght of dap of pubLc dam-.-= -
-man. that this-is completely irrelevant S'-e!d? Yom, I?am satLs: ed with the pies- c'.wure is alo:ved to fall on the CLa, it .
insofar as getting to those abuses is con- ent fl~^.u-?. ~i e .do not in}.end to reduce will dest:-o3 that a~sencp. 13o we want
-- ~cerned. The amount ?of money involved the budget appropriation for t,~re CZrI. that? - ~
`. is beside file point. ~ - - - " air. ROIISS~.OT. :11 right. So the tVe must defeat this nutendmeat.
_ - I Lhtns that the investieatfon o: such. gentl?man Ls satisaed evidently zvlth the The C:L~L~.ZL3ti..The Cliai.- recog-
_ alleged abuses is the resporsibiL"ty of - Pr-rseat figure, whatever it may be. sizes the gentleman from Connecticut -
_ the Select Committee on the CLa. I Y_o:~ _ X77-?r?fore, T do not unde~st;:ad the neces- (;~-~bie, can :ve then reduce t`le F?e do.:s to st~:-e for sn o-de-ty. 7~~s : s.:.d
does, however, is rot s2c'et to tltcsa who. ~~ of raisjud~entr of error- in our Peacernl wo:td_ In t*1., e~~.t more cnsn fat
, ~ e'/aiuat:ans. rT2.zC:o'v"L.~ it~*:1.s from the ~~p o. ers tt h13n order o.t selEess~e~v. of
rivet Lnow in order to sc`~ L-i the :iaflon's realm o: con;ec~~re wad puttinP than dedte3.t:na oL devorloa. u asYed o! msa s.yd
best iat.e_~t-charged. *Fith that respon- wo~ea. Tha cc~a;n5a 1cn of tE ~ cem~ ~:
sibility by Constitution and st.3tutz_ 'fie ~~ i:ta'~own facts ~iegor3 is the c,.n- in fear. crasaiy not to reva:ds of sa:s.-y: ?
President oL tine Z3nited States and the _ ~~ >'ale of L*:t~liioerce. and it :s vital to but to `_ a rew~-d of the s:::e ~o~teags tom:
riat;onal Security-. Council ~-~tow what. Prorz.=tin; a '-se_saeiety in a world where they have ,~at9 a con:.-lbut:nn to _*:e2aoa's
file fgencies are doi_^a. The Congress--- nations ~^e d.?dicated to a des~sction of cause.
through t.*te four spedflc subcommittees cur ~vay of life. These facts are the ~ to ;.he legal bass for Ghe soec3al -
? charged by the Co~..?sv whit the respon- fount`'-liens far m:~ino t'^.e right deci- funding authorities in furt.'le:ance of tie
sibisit~ for oversight of iateliigance Tune- s'-oz;=,='not ,jt'st in tile' of w'''r but CLq minion ~~nd :urctdans. Z rhirii ire -
tions--~tow9 shat the sgenc3e;r are ra;.:.er is t`ne canti^.rriao Process of 'rove Pr;.t t.'zirg r:tlic:^. m~.:s: be sari is tit .
~ to pl-eserve *i'te pace and avoid war. the secret is ?unding is a concomit~t
doing. Tye StlbcomY,tit..e?s on Defense oY y _
n?- ..nlir-^,,~L-a^c mn~~ not ?]e t3SP11 -- -------- -- ---- --.-- --- -- ---.e.
?propriations and the Subcorn:"'littees "~' ~"`~"~'?- ?"""'.""."""""". """_"',; In nar_a. tv:yrtou~ secrecy is iunaing
. Intellige_^.ce of the House and Senate ous flow o, accuraie information to t..e there s ro chance that the secrecy of
Coni.mittaes on Armed Serrices know Policyma~ers. Informed j:rdg*rtent helps t:te Program; themselves can be m3`~-=
tradl- tzs marteuter frore e~activeiy ir; foreig'*_t ~~~
Iiao.ri.-t3 the directian and t?s
i
I
d
i
-
.
ng.
n a
o
es a!
e
what the agenc
lion begun dozing the Conwnental Con- Polley, and :..n awaren~ on the other yotu::te of money flow ritrin the Lntpii-
^r-ess, these committees are charged with- s:de th t t:e do in fsct have complerz gs~e cot~munity ca.n be eve.-y bit ~.
and ~~~ n'-`o;-nt'tian ~et~s-lseep
?
revealirt> as knowing Lae corazti~e~;:
the respousibiLty of acting in behalf of
them?honest and reduces then m~zuev-
tYle whole House and the whole Senate,. - of manpower or hardw?re to a partic~~r
because to have t`te whole bodies wori~ln4 ~rn;? Ther-? is simply r_o substitute for program, for profit 2u.^.dintr--moth in
with this information simply runs a very havt^.g t~orotrgh intelligence gathering; its overall sizir~ and apPOrtior'nea6--
t disclosure of iz:- and Pr..sident after President--the in- ~s a t-ather direct and accura~z me?...a'71:'?
h rsiS of insdverter
hi
_
g
formation which could render our activ-? strtl~-*tenL of Govei-r_ment charged by the? of allocation of resoirr-es at any given
_ _ C.nnctitiitioa Fritts the resnortsibilit7 for _---, -- ,.~- .~.,_- ---,.,, -- ~-.-- _?
1nerE Sre UI.L1Cr vvera: ;u~ ~;s:cg uaa ua rii~etj rI'114. - ..,~.~,...... .. ... ........... ...... .. .........~ ~`. ... +
as to t~.e agency's activities -also. the ~ either the ma>-nitude of the zr~~ of ~`~. -- -
v-~o~i.9Ant Tnrrnan cal}ari the .CZA . S .. .. .. . _
.. tionai Security Council. a^to sicni3caat """"`,' ""_"""".`., ".-`" ---~" -~~~ ~ the legislat?ve brn~es have careft~''y
the role of intelligence as a com_mard;ag
foreign: Program .of say- ld.-td is uad~Y- Preserved sad faintly con*aoiled t:aro1.e`1-'
:: ~ taken without the pttior approval of any ~ro eras as _peu as P.~sldent, stated is out the :;.geacy's.hstor,*. _ - ?. - _
_ ~ ,matt ? - - - - -.. - . -_ .. _..- -
.on _ _ ~ ,. _ - -
ew
o
a
i i c:tt:om.-eso2:rces, . ree,~5re~en's, and asst-- tla:e to tt~e: _ - ~ ? : - ~, _
. Bence activiCes to the-Pres..dent's Fore.~l tunes orevaltln2 tn, tae word. ';3ey and chelr.. ~ ~' -
. .T22 additio~z.:. the Sg.?L'Cy~repOF?S In d@-.~ thc.~e !3^-=a- Zn pescetl~e L*t neces.~:y fx!s Accoun, of th_> _.eceipts a^_ct Esxadl:i;r~s~-~ -
}eran e of foe?i~n inte22t- ate of atl~e:ent t;sttie.2'Ee7 d-~.1 vetch con- of all pubue Money sna!1 be.g~tial~cLi:ezcs~.
r
il th
t
- .terry Of .State, , and? the Secretarg O~ steno ~ c:iscostt!nna, wad tntent!an_y o: hL; u-'y. but in Consequence oL aoprc~pr!at.~s
Defense. _: - _ _ .. :_ ooponeat, and 'the proper ~terp:etattoa of rasde by I.s~ and a re_ filar S:.atzmeat a:~3
- - .. r o
';i32i o-oveT*_nteut, indts~y. education, and te-~ ra;:gnat securtcp and l;e,t 4^terest:~. .- CI.3 budget clearly_lneer; t'~:s test. 'I1re
. ; QA tae o1 `~{~ ..:.:.. .. _. :..:._. Ia the worms of In'at:t~nce. heroes sr- ~- _ at the ve-y moate^t obtrtin on a cl~.ssfi-- -
F - .. -: .~ - decara:zd cL.d unsua~ oi:~n- evaa :..monk fl?d b?-Sin eClCtly what titOSe 1?tr~aII:a
? T'2,e Na-tonal ~C11rity dCt O~ 1947 f01~. t::etr o:ri f:a:.eailty. TEe1r LrspL^at!ca 1~
:tlds the CL~ to ::^.ave ? :y pollee. suboans rooted in osc:!oc:snr-tt,~t: re~:;a:d cvn ba are and ~::1=?_re they are is the biL'
_ __ ._.- ....,.."......_.-_,.~..~. _...a .~,_ ~.._ ..~.- ___--. .__ _,.__,_..,... .,. ,.. .,.._ .. _,.inw iic F'nrt.hQrmnrr t}tPSn annma+as-
fir' _ _ - _ _ _ _- t~
 _ - ._ .._ _.. pi~~lr,~ve~# ~b~.~Js~-:~QQ~~'~~~1=4'=~~AE:.f~L~'9'1--~t~~~~~00~0~~0~-030-~~' . ;' :,`_ ~ ~~ ..' _ -~ 1 ';~s
stz:.z_:.en~~ ?and~-aecotr:t'or :-~c>~ts a_d"a~7'4-'st bsb~s`zp izz an issue of tars _ ter. c;aau-m:~.u. ~ u.:~~ ~:s~ ~:r:Yl:.~u- - .. ----~
~
~;a a reason- bw-s ?:oz down this amendment.by a ze-
~
'
-
:
a
~s
'sz~:~:e ~Csre t:n_
ezP~ndi~-*~ in-corapl:acce :i~,.a a ~`c:a
I, sect:oa 9, cLat:se ? of tre Cc:sh~-ven_-. ably ids c; :sc~*e i~ spr:sor a_r2 de- - sou_ ding rote of no_ ..
~s to the statutor7:=a._^_.e..c'x, s?c~on. te~:Yed r..0lesd is :1:_:.3z3? - - Tae C:i~~,.:.I:~:~F. The question s on : E
? 13(d) (3Y ai the:iariar_al Scc^= ~ S-cc oS .~~- Ca3i.^aa. I ;:='d ~~e gala: ce o: - =,~e a.:^endment oiered b3 th> g?.~tie ~a -- . .- _ F
_ 2947, as amended and as ccd~~= as 54--7 =~' to-`We-~~=a~~ ~?`=`l"~a ' f:nrs Co~ecticut (~?r: L'rLUaio).
- L'i.S.C. 403(d)(3), prov':ds Lha: -~~ Di-?.iromTe~a.s \IOa3!ey : Neacer~ . ..
ciaa iScsLlon. o2-th:s budget item by w~ : that ii is too high or too iocv-for the Cep- ~~2= `.:o~z:- ~ - ^.."TMale~ --
Con3ress and thz people we represent.: _ ? tra.l InteLioence Age^cy. The .author of - rlorto - ~ ' ~ iSOOrhesa, Pa. -wt:son, Tez. ? ~ -;
- _ ? - Ford, Bich.. Sloshes .- ' wi_-th -._ .__
my time' to tht? gentleman fzom.-Tee'"suaz' is correct. So, we have done a.good= Gibboas_'.~ loco - -Yates -::-..:
of the amendment Green ?Naccher. iourl~;Ga;~="
the distinguished eiiair- -
The author
b there
u~oQ)?
IVI
I
,
jo
.
;
.
.
.
r.
(
man of the- APo='opriations Committee.:??p~oipatecl in the drafti^g of the le?-- - NOES-?2a7 - -- -
-`~
Iianietsoa _.-' -
The C:L',L? y~`I. ~-The Chair'-r?cog- _ _, abanor. Broy~at : `.
?-..nines. the? S~-d~~ from -F'lorida? (yam: -- .. But, there'rave been iLTegaht;es. and -' ~a~oII ~. Bureaus de is Gc~z,- ~-
. _ -.-. .
Yo ~G)YOIINCr'of Florida as'~ed and was . we cannot condone ;hem. Eow are- we And:ecrs; BiLYe. Bass. Detauey -
o ven Permission_ to'. revise-anct extend being to prevent ill~_lity In the esecu- rr. Day- Bari:son, Teo Dane
+~ , . ? Annuazlo .' Burtisoa, Sig. Derrica .
lLS remar~S.)--'-,:_ ' ~ ". ; . .. .. ..- - t1Ve~brai?Cil OI the G07ernmen,.. It .S o0-- archer -~ Butler .. Der~ias`si-~_'-_ '
inb to be uP?to tree Pros:dent, up t0 tile- Ara;t:ong 3yba .' De-iine '
;yIr. YOLNG~ of Florida: ].Lr. Chair-- head of t`he Central inte'!ieeslce ~lgencv,. sl~hbrook Carte: nic~inson
may be tine: e tnrougYr the ,ears, 3sh:ey - cas?y- - Downing, Va.
lrl his argument earlier today in -
.,~
man
~
'
~
.
never
. Duncsa, O:
eg..
suP~rt of this amendment the gentle-' T_3a:a]s Cederbe;g
-man' from ~Ca'.iforaia (iVlr:- :.loss) said to try to Set good administration and Barett.. chapoe3l..'. Ihiacan,Teaa:
very pe~-suasiveL7 that the tinned States -Prevent instances of errors and wren,- - aaunzaa c!sncy ~ ac:?ono
o- E-~a:d, Tenn. C'iausez. Edgar ~, :ua. --
doin3. T?nere is no way in which Con,.ess E~~l Don H. " E:ibar; -
r~ S+O`X3?~=*>9i. 33d h3.i^31i.~C.?ill~d. i`.S. - .. ~ ..,yet: ~ Ci~-a5on.n?. = y.i".r ~. _
j _
~'" p7?r5L3'ttle 1CuVlCd3 Oi e:er- One Of ~ ,~ -..
C
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-.
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-
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;J~'a:- liC'
' .-=,-n.,$~_3,y-. L.: OC~'1 .. ,SOi:'_~t'7. - `.;'?'. -'1:~~. - :.. .. C:~v-l a.:d. -- :: _s3
' ~.(-a?l,.~.J:1'S1iL2. '_S :.`2:~i, C?.-,---.. ." :CCS. O: 2;_^_~i0 %?i-~i- i:l ^:~ Z.:- ir.?i.t' .
- - iailed to say,::. ecutive vi2['_ch. , : - - -__:.' 3ta_:,~i -.--= ? cocnnn ----' ' ~ ! enrrh-R-
'ing the Lime-our great Nation was ~-._.. ~~?g- -"'' -: Conan ~ ?: ?~cn ? .
ii-~i- So; ii seems to me that since we have . na,ana cols=n~. Teo. `'shie~9~ .
i
'
c ac
? coming o eat and strong, spec
ties of ou.r intzlli3ence agencies were.not _ tYie information t.ilica -the '~IeLnbers Bowen Con3bie c:.saa, iad_
have done a good job in Breaux Con!sn Evtns,Tean.~ '-_
i
r_ce we
- - _ - _ne~; s
III3de Public: ::;.~?-. .~- .; .- ~. ~ ,. ~. :._ F,rectiazid8e ~ Conte .. Fenwict, :..~^- ,-
. ~,~. C~irnah, z~ost of otlr. debate to-~ rec'?uc~zg the req':est, these :s r_o use in srin~~cy cou~hlta .. Ft=a
t::e wnols tride worl3 jLZ,t
t
hi
n
? .? .-
.
o
ng
,
i:roo IIetd ` Drtimou:s ; Flocxi
-day has-?beea-clirectad _L7 tale- specyc~ ptlbls
ameadment,;:oftzn reier?_d to a; tae what we are?doirw. 'This i, not a, favor :3ro~n ca:!r_ . Dsa:ei, pan' Fio?.vers
~t rr--, -, t to t'!+. P ri -: i S ?~- - .. ,. n., ., ?~ F. CtT. F' ^n
"f1I5t t190yi Ste P?:- :liL. 1.:::L::a:au,~ u.._. ...------ -- - -- -
_ Conaa?ress'ha5 an.obL?gation to be ?~rY of -and t.`le Cosmunist COS15p11'aC~.-;_ . _ Bm~ra.Ohio -'-Danie's, NJ. 'Fclay-_l
,. r .._ - - - - - -- - - - - -
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.~
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 pcto'oeT. 1; ~19r; _- ' CO_VG~51Uw~.l.-tcst.'J~-rwu~_-. "_ -- ~ ~ ~~~ ,_ ~I.29-
porn.Tea.~i. . = Lott. _ --- - PaDL~oa ._...?- -COIISeht tint }-he7 ^.-3Y !`e~rsiderad en:- point z3gu:e is the Pro_oer Enure and. Lat .
ronT'.ha "Lu`sn - ?-~;'r,' bloc.: - , . the 13-ooiat Eo re u tha one Ghich uu~ .
roun:.a,n- ...- ad^_Gto-T P~arT :.- .. o~.
" ~--_~ :.icciasiy P~je -- ` Tae Cler3 read s follow: A accoi::: t:.e trial program on t: a
r tilcCoi!:orer P.:~xrsn-+v~ : ~en3~enca a?e-ed h. ~i-_ Gjwa~~~.:.ea 'r-1-1 ~.cl~d~v R. 8: D. -
,~ ~fcCor~acY. ~"T~z-'o: pa3a 31. t'~.e 10. st:'_se ou: "3::,i=o.;.~~7~0' T'IIZ gL2Stlon 3rla~. Ler2 ho'x L~S`.iCll -
dos McDsCe. ~ Ru.: ~ai3 - - and insert tz iteu the: ^o: :La fo::ox'.=3= ca abuty can Fe b~ f:nca t~ morszn:
G~~an - :i~.ona:d p`,;~ - "03,093,1~J ACA^: - - _
Gutd-aa:ez- 3t::_~en~ ~ _ cam? HoFr much capabiLty can_~e buy
Gonza;rs 3ScP-sii S>.-sjia _. 3sd oa ~a,'? 31:1i~e 14. ~ -!'c9 rn.: ^3?nt.= A.om this mciwzs`L or.? In tha-F-1-1 pro-
Gooa-iii tiic3~T. 53::.er';d 419.000" a^d i~:t:ta 1'wII LSr-?oi t:a ia1-
scsae.~oeii lowin "3rsa.il3.000". ~~ ~'e have- aireao;~ sp~L the P_ 3t Ll.-.
? Gra:i~on ~.Sacl;sSSa -. 3: - - - That is behind tl.s.
G:zastaT ua~on sari w. The C~~'SL~Y? Ls there object+on to The F-14 is in producaon_ The F-13 - -
Gu7sr i.fattn- - - -
Ea~cra. Slart~ S~`-~ the reques~ of the pen4~-:;an from is strictl,; a paces P:-ogr3:n_ 'I'ris cha.~
II''i~' ~ ~'~' , .. shustrr - Flor}da? as. we se? it now rolls i^ to it the fatal . _ ' . -
- HZtI ~ ~SatSLLSaJ? .. 5': wen ~ .
? Esr~ar- Sitchet-' - - szsbt~ ? - There was no objection_ - _ cost of tine F-14. 1"*ais obviou~`3 is in- -_
- schmldt lcil~OCd ~' -:-? Stacz - idr. SZr 3TTOii. i.Ir. Chai^.n.~. I correct since all R.D.T. & E-:s bzhlnd us-
- Ean1aY 31>11bt.G~.~ Stu.h.ZOwa - reserve a poinC? OI Order 3?~:3.I".St. t~ with file F-14. BUt even if we taaa. the ~ -- .
Fannin _- SfiI1~ S~l:h,xeiar.
$~,k,,, . .: - *Stn!sh . _ - - snydet- ame_*Sdmz..t. . - ' : ' Nav, s figures on t..i: and add irta it tha.
H3+t:a3s Li:tche:t, x.Y.. silence - The Ci~~LZ`.L~r. ye gentleman Lrori .,,~1,T component and that was oinittzd is . - -
EaY~?ohio. ssouon3n . Sca3gera ~ ,;ew YorX (1(" Srsar_'nx) reserres- a ttis cVart. the two li^2srepresenting 'che =- \-
. Eacz:ar.]iz3s. 1toa,.~ciarT Scancon. '
Heins - ,lSoore J. wtllisa- - gointoi order. ... respective costs of the altzrnative pro-
Eendarsoa - jdoorhewd...:_ Steed (By tl,^_3nistOl'3 cOPSZnt. fir: G`-??L ?W*.z. teams never cress iz ~~e appllcaola ti_ma ?.
-- Aiczs catit?.- Scee:msa - was allowed to proceed for 5 additional iraWe. That factor is the cent of tae i~-~--
-. Fto`Tt07tP2_. ~o~yz ; ~ stetger, IY`3. tninutesJ vestment of the F-18. Zziny file Nagy left
E'_llLy _' Jiu.-p`ST.nl?- -Stephens. -.
Eiayhavr- '.iu::ha Scr~t:on. ._ iSI'. C~~~P~?.T.T? 1.Lr. Chi _, W 3n, the it Ollt Z d0 noC kIIOR.
Houaaa :17e~.Inrt.-~:, sucker .~ is ' a verp simple. ' r_orcontroversial The Navy has posed two al:e-natives..
' Eott _Jiyers,?a. .. .- sui:lva~. zmendm2r_t which I have proposed to and t`teYshowtheseF~ ices: ~
Bubba-d .:feat ~ _ 53--,~.a
~,~,~, ;.ie3~. .' . Tatcoct the apo:rop;:ations bill. I ^ant to sap at Alte~ate 1 cats for 7~~ r-1~ a!`craft
Buuasyon tiic:ots - .. Taylor-Sin - the boo nnirg I do not boa where tae ? and 450 3-7 airc:..ft_ ?1ter^.a;e 2 calls
? . Ryda ,;u .-. Taylor, x.0. - r^-13 was conceived-whether is vas on for ?21 F-1-1?s, 303 A 7's, a^d SCo r-1S's.
Ichord '-`~o\'+a~ ~O''a a :vild-Hoare hunt or rot--buL I do feel ~ ~ , -
Jst'tnsn. O'Sres Thornton 3?ep in mind These are file progra.'lls
Je?ocds , o'veui .Traen - the presently proposed F-13 pm~*n w`.li },o he compared- Zti'hen we roll into t:ae
Senretta Ot:inger - IIitmaa ~ formula tha cost of t.e investm_n. man-
. Tohason. Cai't_ Pas~as- Van Deertia pug us on s :wild-geese chase: ti Q ~
Johnson. Coro. Pattnan, Teo vigortra T'.ze amend-"'Seat to the bill which we . ey, as 1s required by Lhe L`epartment of
JoLinwn. Pa. Patten. NJ. wa~onnec propose he_-e simply strises from the ail- Dofon-ie 3,S;ci by tha Ns;r3 itself. vie fz^d
Jones, r11s. Peppnr wash . ~ prooriatio~ bill S~8.2 miiL?on. IL leaves tile.lines on t;?l:se ~.ao Pr6grams ?.r11 not - -
Jones,x.C. Petcta ~ti''pl~ - in the'bi'? the S64? ~S!en For eno:ne a do ~
Jones, O'r s- ~' Pcyser ~~--ita CrOSS until w.-.Y out beyocd t..., year ..O10,
Janes,Tean_ Pickle P~hitehurst development. I emphasize that there is ZVhst dues this mean to us? IL ^:es s
8=stea - pos39 'vihictea ro intent by.illis amer_d^Si=:it to stop the i"i we tale the sa.-ne base. the same cwt
ai.aa Pressler vri~,ir3 ;1av Loht Lghter'prog:-am. Zt is ir_tended
be117 Price ~vilsoa, C.B. ~ periods, the same nuin~r o. airer3.ft
m~ Prtcctssrd Sj/ina t0 1:2ep the engine d2velop.~.ent go?_ng, prad~.:ced on file sa, e schedule, we can .
. :chum Quia wrioht if this should be adopted. This is in no-- btu more F-1.?'s and A-?'s Cnaa we can
~. .adness ~ .. C.luitlen - ~Vydler ~,,-(se intended to kill tl:s light:veiht, ~_
La-calca ~ P_ausba:-k ~+Jytie. the sz~ie force of ~ 18's. The principal
Lr?omarsiao Randall Patron f~hter program. Z Lzel, :..i a number of reason th?y do not cress i; that the sav-
Land.^um Rees Young, ats;za ot'rers feel, however, that :ve have not Ir,,. cost on_. the F-18 exceeds tilt cost
La:w Re3i.ci-~ . YO1~~? r?Sa, explored all of file alternatives that ~? a
Lent Rhodes Young. Taz. of investment money re4:-.~red_ -T: at is
- Levltas Rlnsldo- ' Zab!ocki ought to be corsiderad before we embark the. diiierence bet^.~een the cost of the
Llcpd, Tenn-. R!seahoosar Zeleractl . ~ On the lillld 0I a program. two Pmg: ams ti.-1'..il they i1n..lly meeC Ou:
Loag,La. -Robe:cs The Members are asked bp?this ail- sometimeinthefuture. - _
NO'T voz-LYG-1g _ "- - prepriation to provide ths2 ~ moneys, ~lr? BL~?.LISON of ?t'?lssouri. tiL~._
9uCotn Ginn stsk which are going to amount to some S=?3 Lhairn-tan, will Lae oertleman yield? _
Brademas- ~? H@baR Staiger,Aria. billion in new programing between now 11L
C~PP~ L. I yield to the gentle-
_
-Bu:ka,Yta_ aiacaonatd Tesgue s}nd 1981--~4.3 billion in new pragiam- -~~fromtilissot~Yi. -
- Dtg~ hiizva VanderJsgL
r
Dingell tiiurphT,x.Y.? Wilson,Bob inn. ~ bir. B>'iR~ZSON Cf ;:
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icy o: else-
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9cer or em-
>_s except Sn
.:or work."
substituted
+ caragraph
:~! ?d States
the Lnited
,lted States
l fire trans-
iiicer or eIn-
~o?.vered the
:~ additional
~~ the four-
- folio :-
. ~ t2hScie of
t continuous
P_laska and
ilia, for such
?-men subset.
t zilo~-ances
oa,1131 (1).
gars. (1) (D)
~
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a
arrendment
n by Pub. L.
)'7, art out as
:fin RelatSOns
i94, provided:
:Y.y Bested Sn
:cease Agency
Lzv~ 110, 81st
o' the IInited
aeulattons:
:or of Central
e:ttral Intelli-
:hall conform
?v of State in
ibed by hSm
~f ibe Forelgll
sober 22, 1948,
such regu's-
' o; eictes with
~ applicab:e, the
1 coafo.~Itr, so
~ trds and rates
? e Secretary of
.. ..eC25.i"~ LO
i
z -:oa
>? th[s
?ncy.
s, the Central
-131-.
.rr~?r _-~ an-ix'::i,: A2ti'D 15iTIO~I:iL 17~'~-.,'`SE ~ ? d03h
I;r;-ECrtvr? DATE of rye ttira:,i.u.~.~..?.
) Transfer LO af:d receive from other C _ ~. ;,a'~'x 'ei~ii'~~?~~c~:~fl~r,~'~:'r`715._..~;`F#~~a''~s1~~[1~.G1~.~~fla~?:~:~_~-?~.:-_,.,._~ ~....~.,~..e:;
 Approved For Release 2006L11114 :CIA-RDP91-00966800080002000;7-C
i
Appendix
"J i
Cjr, " 5 ! y ~
`.OJ~_ ~
< r_,.,part:.^.~:tt u:: I)ri?-ts~ 'ncT't'e t;;c?ttF yea: e:)?.iir.~
:Irtkiu~ app:up:intiotl~ .o; '- __
? Jude ;t l,~i:).:,. a::?.! for ~itn-r !~'.t`P. ~ 1 h~ fi,:/!,rf?' ,;1!(1. FL,,/.;~~ nr t',':p/?~.;-nvit;?.?r.r ui eha
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aad tOI' Oi aPC
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IIC~(,.ilt3, rratllliic'S, t)BCi l;ta?Ttt. Ciltlil~%e. O: `t.!:irll ii'a?'Pl ~121?'li:iti?::{ ::tl
l tll c`C(?Of .IO (!r'rJ i:..:SilOilal '?i?~)\'`'i:1 ('lli3~, all( ?2\iJ'?ILri Of .
CS )8n3t3 - ,
t t. I'ill;tli ilL (. ilC :tails C: , -[,,;' ~: e!!li:C)
Plr.nura.rc u!:.,~ trn~el 4,ri?,cr?1 r '"
li~ - .~I:i.~
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Oi ti!B :`l'i(!~ Clt 1(;ti~B Cttii~ %_`\Cr.'~)`L ,LCt~(j q` :'CSt'.I'~C
:(,t"iiSZ`.6'llrCt? ~ 4t.t~ll??ri;i,(;l7iF.
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i
~I[F.[~AP.Y YEF:;tI\,XEL, 1 :?~- .
~. j' pI' 1)Fl%', al!o\v;trc(?.,, i2luivttt~.la1 CiOthiF.tr ..%Il-i~i~t2l?C'8? 1??tc?2.2~% Oil ~ .
t t luul?r? of ~.:~'on ,ravel (1!tclutiiu,
ctcl)osit,, -~~ratuit.ies, i,erl!!:lat`2: c ~ (
all (::c :tt~~reuf for or; ,uzatu;ital t::u~.:r.? 'a.-), uttil etir>z;?-r~ )i
tC;11t,OL':L I": ta1C~: tC.L Vt'1 i,Ct?.t?"C.n 1)c',Cnt,t ^'.i'.li C?t:: :'?S;.l t.lml3, fOt' Tne;tl;;tt?'??
pE t!li` ~a': ': Oil nCt1C? (lllt. :' (eXl'. 4)~ Il?P1il OP.!S i)i ail(' ~i?~t'r1': i)('O\Itttal
POr C1~0\VilCl'C}) ;t1 i(1311iT):!:eil,122(l aVliti!O?! C:'.:"~~~ Y~>;l'I~l;'~)1-")'l~lF.
~CILIT.\ItY ~'F.RSi,>i\EL; 1a~-~': 1909, 19:1
(I,iruiil:Ltioil of IJi?fiCie?eCira)
I' ot? :tn a(ltl;tion:ll :Lmonnc fnr `~l[ilih!..y- persoSUlcl. \ac~': fot? fll:a?
~'1ci`.;, ? ~ .:); i.~ulll: tali; ~;al ` ~?a.r i'F ~ i. ~:;:,: ht))l}(}: fc,t? il(l~tid:ltit)n
ct`;lr i. ?? .
(it GJI::',aCa)tl~ 1nCitC'~"(1 ::^.nLL i:!ta,['~Yai)l8 ih ii:C?:? aCC(lltilt3: .~'~/'D,-t(%t'/%.~ .
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