MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: Library of Congress
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): LOC-HAK-280-9-13-7
• Release Decision: RIPLIM
• Original Classification: C
• Document Page Count: 2
• Document Creation Date: January 11, 2017
• Document Release Date: February 1, 2010
• Sequence Number: 13
• Publication Date: December 13, 1974
• Content Type: MEMO

No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01 : LOC-HAK-280-9-13-7
MEMORANDUM
CONFIDENTIAL /SENSITIVE
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS: President Ford
Senator Barry Goldwater
Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant
to the President for National Security Affairs
DATE AND TIME: Friday, December 13, 1974
PLACE: The Oval Office
The White House
ON-FILE NSC RELEASE INSTRUCTIONS
APPLY
The President: I wanted to talk to you about the Vladivostok agreement.
Interesting Scoop is becoming a dove on the issue. The complaints are
coming from those who say we should have gone lower with the ceilings.
Our proposal stemmed from three NSC meetings and was basically the,
JCS wish for equal aggregates.
25X1
What have we given up, and what have they? Our program is under
2,400. We can get up there by keeping our B-52s or we can add the
Trident and B-1. The Soviet Union has about 2, 550 now, so they will
have to cut back. They have no MIRVs yet but they are already testing
now. Their program as estimated is substantial, so this is for
them a cutback. We got them to drop FBS and the British and French
missile forces. So it seems to us, the JCS, and Schlesinger that this
is a -good program and required more concessions by them than by us.
Goldwater: When I made my comments I hadn't heard the details.
I basically am not concerned about the nuclear field; I am basically
concerned about the conventional. The Soviet Union is passing us.
I have the same feeling I had in the '30's. I see trouble in the Middle
East, not only over Israel. I hope we stay out of it. I don't want to
see you not being able to react to a conventional threat.
CONFIDENTIAL/SENSITIVE
No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01 : LOC-HAK-280-9-13-7
 No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01 : LOC-HAK-280-9-13-7
CONFIDENTIAL /SENSITIVE
The President: Secretary Kissinger says the same thing.
Goldwater: Five out of six in the new Congress want to cut the
military. It's just like the 1930's.
The President: We're having a meeting tomorrow on the DOD
budget. I am leaning to the higher figures.
I heard that Scoop.would submit a re solution that we should renego
tiate the Vladivostok agreement. I would hope for an amendment
that would force them to vote for $3-5 billion more a year if we
don't get it. The Navy is in bad shape. ,
Goldwater; The Navy also has obsolete thinking.'
The President: We also need to keep up R&D.
Goldwater: Schlesinger is one of the best we have come across. If
you can come up with a better one, okay, but he tells it straight.
The President: I have no present intention to do so.
Goldwate r: We don't need the FB -11 I if we have the B-1. And
we need the A-7 like tits on a bull. The Soviets have never scrapped
the Badger. I don't want us to get into a war like the 1930's.
The President; It will be over my dead body.
Goldwater: The big thing is to build up the Navy. We have too many
missiles. We need only a couple of standard types. We are thinking of
a committee on procurement in the Congress. It is terrible. The
Pentagon is fifty percent over-staffed. Every office has a PIO [Public
Information Officer]. It is over-staffed and over-organized. I would
tell Schlesinger to get to work--cut the size, reorganize, and move
people out. The PACAF closure was a good move.
The President: We didn't get much flak from the base closings.
Goldwater: I'm sorry to see Saxbe go, but I knew he wants to be an
Ambassador more than Jesus Christ. Just don't put Goodell in.
The President: I have no intention of doing that.
CONFIDENTIAL /SENSITIVE
No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/02/01 LOC-HAK-280-9-13-7