AN INTERVIEW WITH ADMIRAL TURNER

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP99-00498R000200150007-0
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 20, 2016
• Document Release Date: March 22, 2007
• Sequence Number: 7
• Publication Date: August 10, 1977
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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PUBLIC AFFAIRS STAFF
The Today Show STATION WRC TV
NBC Network
August 10, 1977 7:00 AM
Washington,
An interview With Admiral Turner
I
JANE PAULEY: Admiral Stansfield Turner, President
Carter's personal choice to head the Central Intelligence Agency,
Is in our Washington News Center this morning with Ford Rowan
to talk about the agency's past and his plans for reform.
Good morning, gentlemen.
FORD ROWAN: Good morning, Jane. And good morning,
Admiral Turner.
ADMIRAL STANSFIELD TURNER: Good morning, Ford.
ROWAN: The CIA cannot seem to get out from the burden
of Its past. The latest disclosures had to do with drug experi-
mentation. Some of these tests were In connection with Army
tests. And a couple of years ago, the Surgeon General of the
Army said that these tests on unwitting subjects who didn't know
they were being tested violated the Nuremberg war crimes code.
Do you think that any of the people that were Involved
In these experiments, any of the CIA people, should be prosecuted?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Well, that's a matter for the'Justice
Department to decide. This is so far in the past, twelve to
twenty-four years that the CIA had. any participation In'-adminis-
tering drugs to unwitting people, that we have simply turned over
the records to the Justice Department for them to see If there is
any legal implications.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, we've all read spy novels where
the other- side tries to lure our agents to defect by catching them
in compromising positions. But now we've heard of the program called
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midnight climax, In which, apparently, American men were lured from
bars In San Francisco and New York Into CIA safe houses, apartments
with two-way mirrors, and fed LSD by prostitutes.
Can you assure us that that kind of thing was stopped
and won't ever s+art again?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Absolutely. That's totally beyond the
pale of our considerations today. I'm not here to condemn nor to
condone,or apologize for the past. But we Just feel that In this
day and age, that kind of thing Is unconscionable.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, most of the disclosures have
dealt with a program called Ultra, which was the drug testing
program. There was also a program called Delta, which was the
operational use of drugs; not only drugs, but hypnosis and radia-
tion and harassment techniques. And did the CIA actually go out
and use these kind of things on foreigners or Americans; not tests,
but operational use?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Not to my knowledge. I haven't dug Into
a l l of that past history. What we're trying to do is study the
past enough to make sure that any errors in It do not recur. Beyond
that, I'm concentrating my efforts for It on building an intelligence
community for the future of this country.
ROWAN: Well, let me ask you about some of these changes
for the future. For example, are you cutting back on the number
of clandestine operatives that the CIA has overseas?
ADMIRAL TURNER: No, not really. What we're cutting back
on is excess overhead +hat has accumulated over the years. As
you know, there was a major reduction In the CIA after our with-
drawal from Vietnam. And we just didn't cut back quite enough.
And we've got more fat; we've got more overhead than we can afford.
And I want to be sure that every employee out there is fully chal-
lenged and has a really demanding job, and that's what- we're getting
down 'to: lean and mean.
ROWAN: Has the amount of covert action -- has, that amount
gone down I n recent years, and do you foresee less of these kind of
operations overseas?
ADMIRAL TURNER: The amount of covert action has reduced
very remarkably over the past dozen years or so. And my feeling
Is that this Is an exceptional circumstance that we would use co-
vert action In. But I feel very strongly at the same time that
we must maintain that capability for the kind of unusual circum-
stance that may arise and In which the country would find us wanting
if*we did not have It.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, there's been some criticism In the
 pa'st of the CIA's analytical product, the analysis that It comes
?" up with from the electronic surveillance and the human fntelIIgence
that comes In.
Are you pleased with the wor.k product of the CFA?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Yes, I am. Now, one never can rest on
his laurels or be satisfied that your analysis Is as good as I+
could be. So we're constantly trying to improve that.. Find ?
think we have some of the best analysts In the country oust
there at the Central Intelligence Agency. And I'm very pleased
with their overall product.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, Vice President Mondaie said
recently that he thinks that all wiretapping or eavesdrapping
by radio by agencies of the government, and I guess that tt:ciodes
the National Security Agency, should be subject to court warrant
and +hat the warrants should be Issued, in his belief, Oct suspicion
of a crime.
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Do you agree with that?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Well, we have strongly supported the
bill that Is before the Congress today, which will require a
court warrant for any kind of a wiretapping operation inside
the United States. This, we think, Is a protection to fhe
American people. I+'s an assurance that what Is done in this
country In the way of wiretapping is done In prescribed pro-
cedures that protect their rights.
ROWAN: Well, Senator [sic] Mondale went beyond that
bill In suggesting it might -- Vice President Mondale, in sug-
gesting it might be amended to require that the warrants only
issue In case of suspicion for a crime. Would you go that far?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Well, that's not part of the bill as it
is presented right now. And I think the Vice Presiden*trs position
may well be adopted by the Congress, and that's a fine. -- a fine
thing if that's what they want to do.
ROWAN: Would It hurt your effort or the effort of the
NSA to listen In on conversations?
ADMIRAL TURNER: To have to go to the criminal standard?
It could. It could reduce it some. But In each of these. instances,
we're balancing the protection of the people versus the ability to
collect intelligence. And I think that the bill, as a whole, Is
a very good compromise in that direction.
ROWAN: Admiral Turner, there's been Increasing concern
that the Soviets are listening to our telephone conversations here
in the United States. A study done for +he White House said that
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it's rather easy to intercept telephone conversations which
are relayed by this microwave towers across the country.
How serious is that problem in your view?
ADMIRAL TURNER: Well, It's a much broader problem
than what has been discussed about the Soviet Intercept of these
communications. The country, as a whole, has become so dependent
on high speed, high volume electronic transmissions that all kinds
of people or organizations could be Intercepting these, be they
unscrupulous citizens, gangsters. Could they be industrial spies,
as well'as espionage agents of many countries?
And we are working very diligently to find an overall
solution that will try to protect the American citizen, whether
it's against his fellow citizens or foreign espionage agents.
it's a difficult technical problem, however.
ROWAN: Well, some people are worried that our government,
the National Security Agency,,for example, does the kind of eaves-
dropping that we're talking about and does It on Americans. Can
you give any assurances in that regard?
ADMIRAL TURNER: The intelligence community of your
country does not operate against Americans In the United States.
ROWAN: Well it has In the past, hasn't It?
ADMIRAL TURNER: That is the kind of abuse that we are
dedicated to preventing re-occurring today. It's why we've gone
to the Congress with the wiretap bill that you have must mentioned.
And any wiretapping Is In the name of foreign Intelligence.
ROWAN: Thank you very much.
We're talking with Admiral Turner. And now back to.
Jane In New York.
PAULEY: Thank you, Ford. And time for a-statlon break.