EXCLUSIVE VI MENN-INTERVIEW WITH CIA'S TOP CHIEF

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP99-00418R000100100027-2
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 15
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: November 21, 2012
• Sequence Number: 27
• Publication Date: July 10, 1975
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

STAT
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Exclusive VI MENN-interview with CIA's top chief0
-William Egan Colby- the man and the organization-
Clatell'szielma-f?1"-W-1111:17-13rEr1klj6)-
As the first and only foreign publication VI MINN was invited to interview the
director of America's secret intelligence organization- William Egan Colby. He
engaged VI FUN 's correspondent in a 5-hour long candid conversation.
The man who today heads up the much talked about and highly controversial CIA
tells- for the first time-about his role as a leader of sabotage-activities during
WW II against the Northern Norwegian Railroad in the Sasa: mountains. He also
comments on the worldwide activities of the secret intelligence organization, the
serious accusations which have been directed against CIA, and the necessity for
carrying on intelligence-activities in order to preserve peace in the world.
- " I would like to express my appreciation and admiration fit-the Norwegian
people. Once my destiny lay in your hands. At that time you stood by me through
thick and thin, you were always helpful and treated mei-: wonderful. I believe
that our two countries can look forward to a. great future in the spirit of co-
operation. I would also like at this time to send special greetings to all my
old friends over there".-
With this greeting to Norway the director of CIA, William E. Colby, ended his
interview with VI MINN April 15th 1975.
,
America's Cettral Intelligence Agency- CIA - is located in a huge
building complex nestled in a wooded area about 15 kilometers outside Washington
D.C. in the community' of Langley, Va. We turned off the main highway and drove in
on a side-road through the woods which ended at a gate to the grounds.
It's not easy to get in unless proper arrangements have been made be-
forehand, but this we had done. VI MENN had been - as the only foreign publica-
tion - invited for an exclusive interview with the director of America's secret
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intelligence service, William Egan Colby.
The guard at the gate looked at the invitation, called Mr. Colby's
assistant, Angus MacLean Thuermer, for confirmation and then exp3Ained to
MB how to drive in.
Ahother guard stopped me near the building, gave me instructions as to
where to park, and I finally got to the reception desk where my next problem
was waiting for me.
According to re tions all camera-equipment and electronic gear, in-
cluding tape recorders, have to be left at the reception desk. But another call
to Mr. Thuermer resolved that matter. An assistant came down and picked up
both me and the equipment. However, I did have to leave my camera in Mr.
Thuermer's office.
William Colby is an unassuming, pleasant and friendly man who looks
very youthful for his 54 years. If I had expected a James-Bond-type I would
have been disappointed. He is of medium height and looks like a conventional
businessman or lawyer, which he also happens to be in reality. let, while there
is nothing outwardly blustering about him, he nevertheless has led an adventuge-
some life.
Question): - You were the leader of the only american operation in Norway during WW II
Mfr. Colby. Cquid you tell the readers of VI NENN what it was that led to
this operation?
(Answer): - I graduated from Princeton University in 1940. When America entered the war
in 1941 I went into the service and was assigned to the Parachute Field
Artillery. In 1943 the OSS Intelligence Service( Office of Strategic
Services) was looking for french-speaking parachutists and I signed up.
After finishing training I was dropped into notthern France where I worked
with the resistance movement.
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kriswer): - In the meantime a special branch had been formed at the 99th Battalion. It con-
sisted of a group of Norwegian-Americans- many of them sailors who had been strand-
ed in the US because of the war- and who became american citizens by signing up
in the military. This group was trained by the OSS for possible drop into Norway.
In the fall of 1944, this group came to Scotland for the last phase of their train-
ing, and I joined thed in October of that year.
In March 1945 the Germans had begun to pull their troops back from northern
Norway in order to use them as reinforcements on other fronts in Europe. In an
effort to prevent this, it was decided that we were to blow up the Nordlands-
railroad to make it useless for troop transports.
On Palm Sunday 1945 we left a base in Scotland with 8 planes, but it didn't
turn opt as well as we had hoped. One of the planes crashed on the Orkney islands,
one ran into a mountain top in Trgndelag, and one had to make a fvrced landing in
Sweden. Three had to turn back altogether. These three made three more attempts
to get there and one of them finally managed to land the crew. Later the men from
Sweden joined us too. I had gotten down in good shape together with the other
felbms from my plane. We also found the men who had been killed in the crash
in Trgndelag and buried them. But that was much later.
Lieutenant Herbert Helgesen from the Linge Company was the commanding offi-
cer for the borwegian troops. I was incharge of the dmericans.
We set up our headquarters at Jamsjg farm, near the landing strip in the
Snasa mountains, and from this base we proceeded to carry out two successful
missions dynamiting the railroad.
(Question): Did you get into any action with the Germans?
(Answer): Nothing other than the usual expected in such circumstances. One of our targets
was a railroad bridge which sommisc of course was guarded. During the battle for
the bridge I was sprayed in the face by mud front a bullet that struck close to
me where I was lying. But nothing more serious happened to our group at that
time.
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liestion): You did fight a German patrol that came across your base, didn't you?
(Answer): Yes, that's might. After our second dynamiting the Germans sent out some patrols
to find us. They knew they were dealing with americans because we had put american
flags at the site of the explosions. One of the patrols just happened to came
upon our base and they actually attacked us instead of calling for reinforte-
ments. The result was that the patrol was wiped out while only one mmf of our
menl-an American, was )'wounded.
(Question): Looking back one often recalls the amusing episodes
(Answer): Amusements take on rather modest proportions uider such circumstances- aside
from the comradeship- --but I do recall one episode very well. Some of our
guys were sitting around bragging about the OSS and what it could do- and there
were seemingly no limits to whht it could accomplish. The norwegians fellows
were somewhat dubious of all this bragging which prompted on of the Americans
to burst out: " ok, just tell us what you'd like to have, and we'll get it."-
"All right", one of the Norwegians answered, "I'd like to have a pineapple."
Later that night they came to ha with a request - naTit was really more of
a plea- to get hold of a pineapple. it that time all parachute drops had been
suspended for safety reasons, but we were still getting our supplies by sled-
transports from Sweden. I told the fellow he must be out of his mind, but in
my next dispatch to London I did include the request for pineapple. I figured
that headquarters would probably think that I too must be out of my mind, but
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that's the chande I had to take.
TWo weeks later, via the Embassy in Stockholm, three crates of pineapples
arrived. They were presented to our horwegian friends- and the slifimmeideammt
predicament was resolved.
( Question) :your unit was kept in a state of readiness for participation in liberating
Norway. Was there no need for military action?
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:Answer): No, fortunately there was no fighting. We stayed in the Snasta mountaing,un-
til the 13th or 14th of May. Then we contacted the German commando. We con-
tinued down to Steinkjer and then on to Trondhein. From there we were sent to
Namsos to disarm the German garrison. That was my last assignment in Norway.
I left the country in the middle of JuJe and returned to th0 where I short,
ly afterwards resigned from the OSS.
4uestion): Do you still have friends and contacts in Norway?
(Answer): Yes indeedi-I'm a member of the Linge club and I try to keep in tounch as much
as time permits-- X-mas cards and letters once in a while -- especially to peop-
le like Herbert Helgesen, Gunnar SOnstebye, Ole Halvorsen, Kjell Sg(rlie and
many others.
(Question): Have you been back to Norway mil= since the war?
(Answer): Yes, in 1948 I went back to attend the unveiling of memorial to our fallen
comrades who were killed in TrOdelag. On that occasion I was received by His
Majesty Klng Haakon who presented MB with the Order of St. Olaf. Besides, I
visited Norway on several short trips during the tine I was military attach 6 in
Stockholm, 1951-1953.
Most of VI NEEN's readers know William Colby's name from the extensive series
about CIA in VI NENN 1974. But only a small group of people know Colby - the man.
This is as true in the US as here. Face to face with VI NENN Colby gave details
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about his life that are unknown to many people.
" -I was born 1920 in St. Paul, Minnesota, half Irish, part English and part Danish.
My father was an officer in the army, which meant that we moved a lot during the
years I grevi up. Among other places we resided in was Tientsin, China, where we
lived for three years. n
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After Colby's assignment in Norway he returned to university-life and graduated
in law from Columbia University in 1947, He started out as the junior partner
in a New York law firm.
The head of the firm was William J. Donovan, earlier chief of OSS. From
1949 to /951 he was a lawyer for a national labor union and then became military
attach6 in Stockholm.. 1953 he was . transferred to the Embassy in Rome where he
stayed uhtil 1958.
In 1959 he was appointed First Secretary at the amerioan Saigon Embassy,
but transferred in 1962 to CIA and became (thief of their Far Est office in
Washington. He stayed there until 1969 when he joined the American Al]) office
and went to Saigon to head up the so-called Pacification Program, and operation
led by CIA and the South Vietnamese Oovernment. He returned to the Home office
in 1971 and was appointed CIA irector in 1973. He is married and has four children
and earns about $ 45.000 a year( 225.000 NE).
(Question):Lately CIA has come under close scrutiny, sometimes intense criticism from
the medialpress and In books. Do you feel that the organization has lost prestige?
(Answer): No doubt about it. People at home and abroad appear to be afraid of CIA,- not the
organization itself - but they fear what might happen if they in one way or an-
other would be associated with CIA or suspected of dealing with us.
People tend to gdS all excited about anything that smacks of "secrecy", and CIA's
activities have always been viewed as extremely secret. An iAsignificant episode s
which normally would plass unnoticed, gets tremendous attention as soon as the
name CIA is printed- even overseas,.
- Particularly during the last couple of months, a situation has developed which
borders on endangering the entire amettean intelligence effort. In this country
it has developed into a mass-hysteria over any-and everything that deals with
CIA. This raises the question whether secret intelligence activities in the US
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can be carried out at all in the future.- A. number of intelligence organizations
which we work with overseas hav+xpressed strong reservations about the situation
and have begun to ask themselves whether their classified information is safe
in our hands. Colleagues, both abApad and at home, fear that their names will
appear in print and be subject to public scrutiney, placing both their careers
and lives in danger. .
?isome of./
:Zuestion): But havnttViour own employees been very much involted in sowing these doubts?
Marchetti's book was very revealing. VI WENN ran excerpts from it last August.
'Ammer): Unfortunately this is true, and because of the present law there is very little
do
we can do to prevent this form of information. We ment have a rather unique
situation here in America, when the Director for the Intelligence Service can
be dragged in front of the public to explains his actions. In principle I have
no objections to this, because we mow feel a great responsibilty tammix the
people. This is why we constantly inform the press about our activities.
But this has to be done only within the limits of what security allows.
- I would also like to add that a book such as the one you named cannot be
considered fully reliable. To a large extent it has to be based on surmise since
no agent or official in this organization knows all the operations, or knows all
the reasons behind specific secret operations.
We didn't have anything against the fact that Marchetti- or other agents
wrote such a book, but we didn't want him to reveal secrets which could be harm-
40
ful to the nation and reveal names of colleagues and covert operations,- which
is what he wanted to do. That is simply irresponsible.
(Question): Does CIA not have the authority to stop leaks of this kind?
(Answer): Unfortunately we don't. We have laws on the books that make it a crime to reveal
tax information from people's returns or their voting record, but not when it
comes to information revealing the name of an intelligence officer or national
security secrets unless it is given directly to a foreign power or damages
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Answer): Americls interests. But there should at least be a moral responsibility in
eases like that.
I feel - and I believe my opinion is shared by many - that everyone who
is employed by us must make a pledge not to reveal internal secrets - and
Marchetti also did this. But this is the only security assurance we have.
When we reminded Marchetti about this he refused to keep this pledge and
claimed that it was unconstitutional and thus not binding. This is the reetson
we took legal action against him , in order once and for all to get clarifica-
tion of this matter.
It can be extremely dangerous to be suspected of being a CIA agent. I can
cite the ease of Dan Mitrioni who was murdered by the Tupamaro guerillas in
Uruguay. He was working down there for the American Peace Corps when some-
body started the rumour about his being a CIA agent. It ended with fatal
results for Mitrioni.
(Question): But it was never denied that CIA was operating in Chile- was it? What are
the determinatts for CIA to become actively engaged in a friendly country?
Answer): The decision to undertake an intelligence mission is made after 4 questions
have been aswered:
Is the intelligence information we seek sufficiently important to our nation?
What are the risks 2of exposure?
What are the consequences of such an exposure?
-And- how much wifi the operation cost?
In most "open" societies there is no need to resort to secret in-
telligence activities for obtaining the information we need. Thus it would
be completely irresponsible and stupid to carry on such activities. nrther,
it's obvious that such covert activities in a friendly country could have very
embarassing consequences if they were revealed. -However, history again and again
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( Answer): has shown that a friendly disposed country today may be the ennemy tomorrow.
cont.
That is why we in a few countries have to carry on careful/ telligence
activities, minimizing the risks involved, but with the objective of an
obtaining information which could become exceedingly important to us.
- In regard to CIA's work in Chile it was necessary for the US to decide on
specific actions which would be most useful to us as well as to thhse elements
in Chile friendly toward us.
(Question): Does that mean that CIA didn't overthrow Allende?
( Answer): I don't believe anyone has seriously claimed that. Of course I cant go into
any details about our work there,- I can only reiterate what ISve indicated
earlier to the Senate's Investigation Committee, and that is that we didn't
have anything at all to do with the military coup in 1973. We had hoped that
a more democratic government dould come into power, but did not expect this to
happen until the normal elections in 1976 and then hmesama through activities
carried out by the country's awn democratic political forces.
: Question): Let's go back for a moment.- Who decides that CIA operations - such as the
one in Chile- are to be carried out?
Answer): It is our responsibility to find out what intelligence is needed for the future
security of the USA,. The planning of haw this can best be done is our responsi-
.;.-
tdlitY. The National Security Council has placed this task on CIA and into the
hands of those who head up this organization.
Differprit congressional committees are appointed to judge whether
the planned operations should be carried out. We don't go into any details
hit if there is a request to do? so we act to satisfy the query. The final
decision is made by a special committee ibitthe National Security Council,....
the so-called ? Fourty Committee.
(Question): Obviously CIA keeps a watchful eye on what its competitors are up to in
other countries as well. Can you tell us how many-KGB-agents are operat-
ing in ELrway?
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Answer): Not right off-- and I'm sure I wouldn't be able to give you the precise number.
But if you'd like I could ask my people to give you a total - as said though,
it wouldn't be precise0 as a matter of fact I'm sure that in this case the
Norwegian authorities are better informed.
(Question): How about KGB-agents in the US?
(Answer): That's not our territory- that belongs to the FBI. Of course we do cooperate
in this field. We keep an eye on foreign agents before they come into the
country. As soon as they arrive here though we give all necessary informal.
tion to the FBI; after that it's their business to watch and possibly -take
action.
(Question): According to the FBI director there are so many Russian spies in America
today that they have a hard time keeping them under surveillance. How
do they get in?
Answer): The come in as diplomats, business people, for study trips and things like
that. This is to some degree the result of our so=called " Detente"-
our peaceful coexistence with the Soviet Union. There has been a tremen-
dous upsurge in visits from the Soviet Union during this period- many times
more the number we had even only ten years ago. But let's take a look at
how intelligence-work is actually carried out. There are three ways in
which information can be obtained:
QVERT INTELLIGENCE:
P
4-
This type is undertaken by EMbassy- and business-poeple
who collect information wherever they can without actually breaking any
laws. Often therd are also attempts to employ agents among the residents
in a country who then in tarn can continue to provide information. During
the last ten years more then 440 Americans have been contacted for this
pUrpOSeo
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Question):
Answer):
COVERT INTELLIGENCE:
This is the secret intelligence arm. The Russians have
training facilities where their man is thoroughly trained in espionage and
gets a complete introduction to the American way of life. After ending this
training he is sent off to a thitd country,- let's say Norway as an example-
and then he arrives. in America mdaiim.under a completely new identity. A
fellow like that won't have any dealings whatsoever with the Embassy. He
works entirely on his own. A good example of a man like that was Colonel
Abel, who lived in Norway before he came to the US. As you recall, it was
him we traded for the U-2 pilot Gary Powers.
caaimasT PARTIES:
- Particularly those in democratic countries which
very frequently cooperate with the EGB.
Hasn't "d6tente-or the socalled friendly development agreements-made
costly/espionage operations duperfluous?
I wish that were the case. The logical thought on which "friendly cooper-
ation " is based was precisely to create an understanding with the Soviet
Union founded on mutual respect for each other's strength. Thus it would
only be natural to assume that the Russians would become more open and
willing to exchange information. But this has not happened.
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Today a Russian EMbassy official can go to any little news-stand
in this country and buy technical magazines which give detailed descriptions
of the latest developments in technology, defense and space-research. In
this way all foreign powers can get an endless amount of information about
our weapons systems. In order to gel similar information from - for example-
the Soviet Union, we have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars for
secret intelligence.
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( Question): CIA. is constantly accused of having overthrown other nations' g4rnments
and of meddling in their affairs. If this is true, why are such activities
undertaken at all?
(Answer): There is a lot less of this type operation today than there used to he,
Probably operations of this category were quite common in the 1950's when
Zuestion):
Answer):
the western world was confronted by pcSerfUl communist pressures to achieve
world dominance. Some of this also went on in the 1960's when the Soviet
Union took over control in a number of free nations. However, today such
y4operations have been reduce 0 an infinitely small percent of our work.
This is not to say that there may not still be situations where
" a helping hand" could influence the atmosphere or circumstances in a
manner that would help avoid a serious future crisis.
Do you feel that even so-called friendly nations also have their intelli-
gence-people stationed in the US?
Is, absolutely- we've identified many of them through the years. But it
should be made clear that this is nothing unusual in anyway. I believe
there exists a kind of international understanding in a world- such as
the one we live in today- that we we'll all keep an eye on each other
without anybody getting up tight about it. After all, this kind of
,..
activity has been going on in the world ever since Moses sent a man
from each of the tribes to spy in the land of Canaan.
(Question): Haw does thejOra compare with CIA in size and efficiency?
tAnswer): - I believe that the Soviet Union's intelligence system is in the process
of undergoing considerable change:- and a chsnge for the better. It used
to be that their main objective seemed to be to steal secrets. Now they've
adopted a more scientific approach. They've established institutions for
studying the USA with the help of modern methods. They've found out that
it's easy to obtain reliable data from us without resorting to covert
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(Answer): operations and to analyze and computerize these. They then form a picture
cont..
of what we have in the way of weapons and supplies. The KGB's main problem
now is to try to analyze what our future plans are.
Don't interpret this to mean however that they no longer are making use of
spies. They still have a very far-reaching world-wide network of secret
agents. Each Soviet mission overseas- such as delegations to international
organizations - has a quota of KGB-or GRgpeople - that latter being the
military intelligence branch.
(Question): Lately CIA has been accused- and severly criticized- for spying on Americans,
mitimmnsx It's claimed that CIA has thousands of american names in its
files- is that true?
(Answer): We have no police-authority and have nothing to do with internal security
matters. But obviously our files with contain thousands of amArican names.
This does not mean 2 however, that they are under surveillance. Let ma kive
a few examples:
We hire thousands of teople for our offices, and thousands
of others have applied or are in the process of applying for jobd with us.
Of course we have to investigate these people, among others. After all,
we do have to know yho is working for us. These names can all be found
in our files.
Everyone who works for us on a part-time basis- such as elec-
tricians, plumbe;s, carpenters etc. - are also registered in our files. But
of course they are not under any kind of surveillance. From 'time to time
we go through these files and destroy the materials which are no longer
relevant. Maybe this should be done more often, but this is a question of
having the time and the qualified personneIkist that can do /this work.
There are probably also names of individual Americans of another category
in our files. These are people who we think might have contact with foreign
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(Answer) :
cont.,
Question):
Answer):
agents. These are not so few as one might think. But as I mentioned before
-the surveillance of these individuals comes under the jurisdiction of the FBI.
Mr, Colby, - is it really necessary for the US to maintain a large secret
intelligence organization?
In my view it is absolutely essential to do so. Not only for the sake of our
military
problems
that can
security, but as a safety-precaution towards a whole range of other
confronting us todey. This means Terrorism or the type of problems
arise in any place but which in the last analysis affect the US.
It is CIA's responsibility to keep track of what necessary steps might be
needed. Unless we recognize such dangers we might find ourselves in some very
embaras sing situations.
Frequently it is the intelligence-effort that provides the base for
our ability to come together with other great powers and to sit down at the
conference table. One example of this is SALT( Strategic Arms Limitation Talks)
conference with the Soviet Union. Without the thorough knowledge of Soviet
military strength -mimmegx provided by CIA's intelligence effort it would liot
have been possible for us to enter into negotiations.
We have another important task - the US peace-keeping role in the world.
Time after time there is proof that our information enables our government to
step in before lthe situation reaches a critical point. It is easier to
bring two opponents together at the conference-table than to stop a war.
Question): - Operation enix 1968 in Vietnam was such an effort to achieve a settle-
ment between the South-Vietnamese government and the Viet Cong by removing
the ultra-radical elements. CIA- and you personally- have been accused of
killing more than 20.000 Vietnamese in that operation. Is that true?
(Answer): I gave a complete testimony on this matter to the Congress in 1971, and you're
welcome to a copy of it. This is the basis for the above assertions. However,
there were individual sentences taken out of context with the result that the
version became completely twisted. What I really said at that time was that
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Amswer): 20.587 guertillas who opposed the plan were killed. But I also said that of
cont.'
these 87% were killed in military action. 12% fell in encounters with the
police who later tried to capture them- and only a very few died in some
other way.
I have admitted that terrorist activities took place, but I maintain
towards VI MENN - and others- that these were unusual and only a few in number
which were at variance with our directives.
(Question): Do you know anything about the claims of Soviet experiments with " remote
control" of the human brain? In other words a telepathic way of influenc-
ing people on the other side of the earth?
( Answer): I do know that there have been experiments with this in several places in//
the world, but I dontt believe that anyone yet has achieved any important
results in this field to speak of.
[ Question): One last question before we conclude- Mr. Colby.- What is the truth about
the " Glomar Explorer" which raised the russian atomic submarine that had
been shipwrecked in the Pacific outside Hawaii? ( See VI MENN nt. 24)
Answer): "That Unfortunately is a matter which I cannot discuss at the moment",
William Colby answers with a smile.
?????? ??????????????????????????
He ask us to convey his personal greetings to all his old comrades in
0
arms and to his peronal friends in Norway.
???????????.... =Pm ele.
Declassified in Part - Sanitized Copy Approved for Release 2012/11/21 : CIA-RDP99-00418R000100100027-2