MEMO FOR RECORD. SUBJECT: TELEPHONE CONVERSATION WITH (Sanitized)

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00791R000200310001-2
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: U
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: April 25, 2000
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: August 28, 1995
• Content Type: MFR

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Approved For Releas
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S~G1 I Internet: mat DOGKMASTER.NGSC.MIL -'~~= ~~ ~'
To:
Date:
August 28, 1995
SubJect: User interview
Pages:
3
Fax No.: 527-6139
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as I noted on the phone, I was unable to contact this AM as he has
retired from the Customs Service and the do not know his location or phone number.
The MFR I prepared after speaking with last week is presented below.
Dave SG 1 I
MEMO FOR THE RECORD
25 August 1995 SG11
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Subject: Telephone conversation with
called about 0930 and noted that I wished to speak to him about a
program that he was involved in as a user when Jack Vorona was the principal sponsor.
After we "fenced" around abit to identifiy the program of interest, he recalled the program
and his involvement with it, noting that he had not spoken to Jack in many years. Mr.
was responsible fior Coast Guard intelligence at a west coast location and
recalled that he utilized the paranormal RV services several years ago, he thought 3 or
4. The function of his organization was to intercept merchant ships and search those
that were believed to be transporting drugs or ofiher illegal materials. He used the RV's
both at his location in conjunction with his people and also tasked them for inputs at the
Program Office location. He indicated that the RV's he used were government
employees (vice a contractor). SG1 I
In the initial portions of our conversation, I asked if he had ever used the RV Inputs
as a basis to task other resources and/or had he ever confirmed RV information based
upon other data after the fact. His initial comments were enthusiastic and positive, e.g. ,
"yes they had taken action based upon the RV inputs". For example his crew would
board incoming merchant ships and look for materials of types and locations defined by
the RV's. However, when asked if they ever had any success, he noted that this was
open to personal interpretation; but probably not. He quoted one instance where the
RV's indicated a specific white powder in a specific ship, and when they boarded the
ship they found that it was full of exotic animals and same type of powder, but not a
drug. He thought his group had reported their evaluations of the RV Inputs back to the
program office and that their comments should be in the Program Office files.
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He noted that their "success" with the RV's was much better when they were at his
location than when they were tasked at their home office, noting further that the RV's
then had a better idea of what his people were looking for and how they operated.
He stated his belief that there is really "something valid" about the phenomenon but that
It needs more research so it is better understood and so the user can be given more
assurance about what to expect. He noted that he didn't think we really know how to
use the phenomenon to the advantage of organizations such as his.
At about this point he seemed to hesitate and his enthusiasm for the activity seemed to
wane somewhat. I asked him if he thought the utility was sufficiently positive that, as a
government user, he would be willing to for pay the RV services from a private
contractor. He stated that "the probability of success is very low, but I think there is
something there, if only we had a better understanding of the phenomenon and how to
use it". He said that paying for the service would be a problem because of the "bosses"
attitude. I asked him to explain this and he said that the boss was initially interested in
the use of the service probably because It was so highly classified which gave the
program an aura of mystery and legitimacy, i.e., it must be good if it's so highly
classified. However, this support died after a while due to the lack of success.
told him that tf he was going to be in the DC area we would be pleased to talk further.
He noted that he gets up here occasionally, but didn't think he'd be up here before the
end of September (I told him we had a hard schedule commitment). He reiterated his
belief that there was "something" to this phenomenon but more research was required.
He noted one case where an RV provided him with information on a ship that described
it so precisely that when he saw it, e.g., shape, color, he was convinced that the
phenomenon existed. But, he said, it simply is not understood well enough as yet to be
relied upon for applications.
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We completed the conversation about 0950. ~ never asked me for any Identification
nor even for the spelling of my name. He was very open a forthright in his comments,
his demeanor was most cordial and gracious and his comments were made (n a most
convincing tone of voice. He responded to my questions without any apparent
hesitancy in spite of his initial cautionary attitude regarding the sensitivity of the
program. Considering his intelligence background, the nature of this protect and the
facts that he didn't know me and claimed to not have spoken to Vorona, I was very
surprised at his openness and direct responses to my questions. I noted that we
thought the program was going to be declassif(ed and he thought that was good, but
even without that prompt, he hardly hesitate to respond to anything I asked him once we
started discussing his involvement.
came away with the belief that he was trying to support continuation of the program
(especially the R&D) but was not a great supporter of its use for operational
applications at the present time. His stated belief In the validity of the phenomenon
could account for this, although I found his support a little strange given that he is retired
and no longer engaged in Coast Guard activities. On the other hand, this could be
Please call immediately If there are preblems with this transmission Pale 2
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interpreted as support for an old friend's request. While he was most convincing over
the phone regarding his lack of recent communication with Vorona, he Is a retired
intelligence officer and may be accustomed to portraying things differently that they are.
Please cal! Immediately li' there are problems with this transmission Page 3
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 ~J~,:,:rTved F; r Relea~ ~nnninQi~ n ? r_in_Rnpa~_nm9,1 Rnnn2nn31 ~^_~1-2~
Fax Cover Sheet
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To:
From:
Company:
Date: Mon, Aug 28, 1995 Time: 10: d9 AM
No. of pages (not including cover) : 2
Comments:
-for some reason the connection breaks after the first page. Let me try sending it with this
cover sheet and see if it goes thorough.
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