MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD FROM JOE MCMONEAGLE, SUBJECT: CONTACT WITH PRESS (SCHNABEL)

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00791R000200190069-2
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 9
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: May 19, 2000
• Sequence Number: 69
• Content Type: MFR

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PURPOSE: To detail the facts as I understand them, regarding he
production of a program for British Television, on the history of
Remote Viewing (RV); to include association with the military
(specifically -the Ft. Meade Project), and its use (specific
applications) during the cold war.
STATEMENT
Over the past eight months, a writer by the name of, James
Schnabel, approached me at least six or seven times via phone in
an attempt to interview me for a book he was writing on remote
viewing and its history.
Initially he insisted that he was only interested in the
science side of the subject, the developmental program at SRI-
International, as well as current work being done at Science
Applications International Corporation (SAIC).
In the case of each contact, I recommended he call either of
the companies direct, since I was only a sub-contractor working
for them. I told him that the work I performed was proprietary.
When he asked for a specific name to reference, I stated that I
couldn't give him one, since in both cases, I understood that the
laboratories doing the work had since been shut down.
On May the 17th, I was stopped in the driveway of The Monroe
Institute by F_ I
He asked if I knew that Jim Schnabel was
going to be attending a Gateway seminar the following week; and
did I know who he was. I told him that I knew who he was and had
seen his name on the list of participants.
then told me that Schnabel wanted to interview me for a
film production he was doing on the history of remote viewing for
a British broadcasting firm; and asked if I would be interested.
I told him no, because my understanding was the broadcast
would have sensational and political overtones, and was going to
specifically address the old project at Ft. Meade. Therefore,
was very reluctant to speak with him again. I also informed
that Schnabel had contacted me by phone on a number of occasions
and I believed that he wasn't entirely open and honest with me
durin those conversations.
I I assured me that Schnabel was very pro-remote
viewing, that it was his intention to do only the right thing
with regard towards the broadcast, and he wasn't interested in
anything that would do remote viewing reputational damage.
I asked Ohow he justified speaking with Schnabel at
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the old office, and he stated that he felt those restrictions
were pertinent only to specific operations, and of course he
wasn't discussing any of these with Schnabel. I told II
that my understanding was that we were to neither confirm nor
deny any allegation or information pertinent to the old office,
so I was reluctant to talk with Schnabel at all. pressed
me. 8o, I agreed that if I was called, I would once again speak
with Schnabel, but added that it would only be after the end of
the seminar, and then, only to hear what he had to say. I didn't
want to start a war with Schnabel prior to my evening talk on
remote viewing at the Institute.
On May the 20th, I received another call from Mr. Schnabel,
stating that he was going to be attending a seminar at the
institute, would I meet with him there.
I told him that I would meet with him.sometime during his
visit, but because of my schedule, I didn't know when that would
be. That seemed to make him happy.
I gave my formal presentation on remote viewing to the
Gateway seminar group on the evening of the 22nd of May. The
subject of the talk was remote viewing in general, my history as
pertinent to my near death experience, the contents of my book,
and this included some examples of remote viewing accomplished at
the institute during 1983. Mr. Schnabel asked no leading
questions during the evening.
On the evening of the 25th of May, I received another call
from Mr. Schnabel asking if I still intended to speak with him.
I told him that I would have breakfast with the group on Friday
(the next morning), and would talk with him before he left the
Institute. During that meeting and subsequent conversation he
related the following information:
The Production is being undertaken in the United States on
behalf of British TV Channel 4. The Producer's name he didn't
share with me. He told me the camera team was probably going to
be headed up by someone with the first name of Astro, a cameraman
for Discovery Channel. He said the writer of record was himself
(James Schnabel, of 6000 Kennedy Drive, Chevy Chase, MD 20815,
[phone]).
He outlined the gist of the program as two fold. The first
part was how the special project started - CIA SCANATE effort,
etc., and the full history of the Army's involvement in remote
viewing, to include details about the Ft. Meade project, how it
was/had been used in the cold war effort, to include the
specifics of some of the live missions, which agencies had used
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 it, some of the specific s ccra ekeesea?eS~
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are/were. Part tw , would cover the science side of the effort,
both at SRI-International and SAIC, would also include other-
applications, what the current state of the art is considered to
be, and who the best viewers are, and major players.
He also stated that they wanted to present a live remote
viewing and that was why he wanted my participation in the
program.
I told him that I couldn't participate in anything like what
he was describing for a number of reasons. My background was
primarily in the Science, Research and Development of Remote
Viewing as a subject, and I could not therefore participate in
any effort which had the appearance of a political agenda.
Secondly, I wouldn't want to be associated to what appeared to be
an expose', especially one that didn't seem to be very accurate.
Third, I had spent too many years establishing a good reputation,
and didn't want to see it damaged in any way.
He assured me that his historical facts were accurate and
that they had been cross checked and verified. I asked him by
who and he related the following names;
(Retired Project member)
(Retired Project member)
(Retired Project member)
(Retired Project member)
(Active duty - past Project
member)
and also specified four others, but stated that he was
not at liberty to provide me with those names. Again, I made no
comment.
I asked him why he was so set on having my involvement in
the film project, where there obviously were so many other
important people already giving him what he wanted.
He stated that the others felt I had been one of the best
remote viewers in the Ft. Meade project, and he just wanted the
live effort on camera to succeed. I told him the recommendations
were unfounded.
SG1J He then asked me what I knew about the capabilities of other
remote viewers over the years. These he also specified b name
as; I
perceived this to be an attempt to display the dept of is
knowledge regarding past personnel, so I didn't respond.
He asked me if I would share with him what I knew about; Dr.
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Stubblebine, Busby, and a number of others I
can't recall. Could I verify their roles and the specifics of
their involvement? I told him there was nothing I could do to
help him.
He seemed to back off somewhat from that approach and
offered that he would or could design the presentation so as to
completely -separate me from the initial portion, which wouldn't
show any connection between me and the military aspects of the
project, if I would only talk with him off the record. He stated
that he really needed me to do the live remote viewing for the
wrap up of part two. I told him that I couldn't help him.
He stated that there were a number of others that were
cooperating, that he had given them like guarantees. He said he
had made promises to others, to protect them from any
repercussions, and he specifically named Hal Puthoff as one of
these others. He then said that he had even spoken to Keith
Harary, who, he stated, was agreeable to providing some
information. I told him that was nice, but there was nothing I
could do to help him.
He then informed me, that he already had sufficient
information regarding me, he didn't need anything else from me,
except the actual live remote viewing. If I did that viewing,
how it was done and edited, could make quite a difference to my
reputation. If I didn't do it, then he couldn't guarantee
anything with regard towards editing. At this point I told him
there was nothing I could do to help him.
He asked me not to make a firm decision that moment. He
asked me to think about it, and told me that he would call
sometime Memorial Day.
I received a call from Mr. Schnabel on the 28th of May. He
said that he wanted to tell me one other thing, before I made up
my mind. He said he talked with the producer and they would
guarantee in writing, not to connect me in any way to the
military or the cold war issues; they would let me advertise both
my business and book in my portion of the film clip, as long as I
participated as the remote viewer in the live demonstration. I
thanked him for the information.
I received another call from Mr. Schnable on the 30th of
May. He asked if I had made a decision. I told him that under
the circumstances, I couldn't help him. As long as he was intent
on producing a political statement with his program, or pursue
the sensational, I would feel compelled to refuse. I told him
that if the format for his program had been modeled on the ABC
effort, perhaps focused on the science of it, or focused on some
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 other aspect, I woulWPOVO r RA94'eDZU d)?6 aCY!e-KM0641'l 14000200190069-2
was unable to shed any light on the history beyond that. as
very disappointed with the decision, which I believe will be
reflected in the program as it is produced and edited.
I found out two other items of interest on the morning of
the 30th of May.
One -
has been telling people within The Monroe
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Institute (management) that he and I were collaborating with Mr.
Schnabel on a film production.
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Two - 0 had forwarded a film to Schnabel, of three
remote viewings that I had done experimentally at the institute
in 1983. Schnabel told me this when he had called, saying that
he had the film, and intended to use it in his production.
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I have since written a formal letter to
(attached), requesting that he stop telling, people we are working
together, as well as demanding that he retrieve the film clip.
What could be particularly damaging about the film clip is
that its contents were produced while Mr. Robert Monroe was under
contract from the old office at Ft. Meade. We paid him for
experiments performed in his lab in support of the Ft. Meade
effort. Use of the film out of context would not be particularly
meaningful, however, if it were presented within the original
context, it could be very revealing and only add to the
sensationalism of the show Mr. Schnabel is attempting to produce.
I I and I know of the
Since Mr. Monroe is now dead, only
circumstances surrounding the film clip. I suspect that
has filled Schnabel in.
In my discussion with Schnabel, it was obvious, that a great
deal of information has leaked regarding the old office at Ft.
Meade. The extent of this information leak was implied by the
content of Schnabel's conversation and overall knowledgeability,
especially while referencing individuals by name. The following
indicates what I believe has been implied by my conversation with
Schnabel:
I I- Has been having quite open conversations
with Schnabel, in which he has provided substantial historical
data. has specifically stated he has not provided any
mission related data - which may be the case, but it is obvious
that he has provided many of the names, inter-connections,
meaningful historical ties, etc., between all or most players at
all levels. I believe that he may have engineered the entire
series of contacts between Sschnabel and others.
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about six or seven years at Ft. Meade) - Has had quite open
conversations with Schnabel, in which he provided substantial
historical data, but only with the understanding that he not be
asked about specific military mission related RV, that many of
his comments be taken off the record, and that he be protected as
a source.
- (Formerly a remote viewer and training NCO for a
period of about three years at the beginning of the project at
Ft. Meade) - Has participated in many open conversations with
Schnabel. The extent of information provided is unknown, but
believed to be minimal, since he only participated for a
relative) short time in the old project.
I - (Formerly a member of the group at Ft. Meade just
or to MG Stubblebine's departure (early retirement)) - D
laims to have been one of the best remote viewers, which
he isn't; claims a training qualification, which he doesn't
possess; has probably had numerous open conversations regarding
the history of the Ft. Meade Office, as well as some information
regarding specific mission related efforts, and his accuracies
with regard towards these specific targets. May have assisted
I uin engineering the original contacts with Schnabel.
(Formerly a member of the group at Ft.
Meade, did some remote viewing. Currently active duty with the
I I- Believe he has had at
least some off the record discussions with Schnabel in reference
to some of the history of the Ft. Meade Office; and has made
numerous recommendations on who else to speak with. I spoke with
after an initial conversation with Schnabel wherein he
stated that he had talked with denied having spoken
with Schnabel. But information Schnabel possessed could only
have come from
F - (Formerly an advisor to MG Burt Stubblebine
at Headquarters COM.
Has had numerous open
conversations with Schnabel regarding much of INSCOM's
involvement in the paranormal area. Is a close friend to Jim
Schnabel, as related in a recent conversation with me at my home.
Has probably shared private information relating to the higher
echelon inter-actions regarding the project at Ft. Meade, at
least as related to him by MG Stubblebine (Commander, INSCOM).
Dr. Harold Puthoff - (Formerly in charge of the Scientific
effort at SRI-International, until the mid 1980's) - Has had some
scientific discussions about remote viewing with Schnabel; but
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 Schnabel advised mAp t8ti 4H4)e6 2C1%bi 6tOC6~'-- ?6 tgy9pR000200190069-2
the military aspects.
I was assured by Schnabel that I and my information would
handled in a like manner (as with Puthoff), and any request not
to be associated with or connected to the military portion of the
show, would be honored.
My primary concern is that I will be reflected as having
either shared information with Schnabel, or someone else will
make such an assertion, in order to involve me directly with the
production of the film. has already done this
locally and I have taken steps (see attached letter) to stop this
from happening. I have no reason to believe it won't be done
again at a different level.
Joseph W. McMoneagle
Executive Director, IIA, Inc.
May 30, 1995
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May 30, 1995
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s is a communication which I hope will help to clarify many of
things that have been brought to my attention over the past
iple of days.
yen we talked in front of the TMI lab last week in reference to
. Jim Schnabel, I informed you that I had every intention of
raking with him towards the end of his program. I believe I
ntioned that he had called me on numerous occasions, asking
it I participate in either a book or film effort directed
yards the history of Remote Viewing. You stated that you felt
was sincere in his efforts to present RV in a favorable light.
that time, we also discussed my reservations, and why I have
gym.
lave since been informed of the following:
That you have told various personnel within TMI that I have
reed to work with you and Jim Schnabel on the Remote Viewing
)duction.
And, it has also come to my attention that you have agreed
release the RV Tape which is used during Gateway presentations
him, and in fact have already done so.
e first statement is not true. You and I have no agreement
:h regard to the production or Jim Schnabel. I spoke with him
the end of his seminar at which time he presented me a
)posal. I told him that I would consider it very seriously and
'e him a response no later than Memorial Day. I did not take
proposal lightly. In fact I gave it very serious
nsideration. My decision and response was to not participate
any way. I feel that he understands my reluctance at this
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