MONTHLY EXCHANGE OF IDEAS, TECHNICAL ADVANCES AND FUTURE PLANS: AMSAA AND INSCOM GRILL FLAME PERSONNEL

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00788R002000240032-0
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 3
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 29, 1998
• Sequence Number: 32
• Publication Date: June 7, 1979
• Content Type: MFR

grgprl -
- Approved For Release 200 - 0788R002000240032-0
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
US ARMY INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY COMMAND
FORT GEORGE G. MEADE, MARYLAND 20755
7 June 1979
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
SUBJECT: Monthly Exchange of Ideas, Technical Advances, and
Future Plans: AMSAA and INSCOM GRILL FLAME Personnel
(U)
1. (U) On 6 June 1979, the monthly meeting between AMSAA
and INSCOM GRILL FLAME personnel took place at AMSAA HQS,
Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Maryland. The following personnel
were in attendance:
MAJ Watt, Project Manager, INSCOM
1LT Atwater, Assistant Project Manager, INSCOM
Lynne Taylor, Project Manager, AMSAA
Two other members of AMSAA GRILL FLAME Staff
2. (S) We updated AMSAA personnel on the status of our
training program, including preliminary report concerning train-
ing taking place at SRI. We discussed in some detail the"train-
ing sessions" being conducted involving Dr. LaBerge to include
problems encountered and how to handle said problems. Everyone
concurs that sessions with Dr. LaBerge can be meaningful; however,
we have to insure that Dr. LaBerge and others from DA fully
understand the problems encountered in Remote Viewing (RV) and
the role that the "beacon" plays during RV sessions.
3. (S) In early May 1979, AMSAA had distributed several draft
proposals concerning various aspects of their projected in-house
program. All DOD representatives to the GRILL FLAME Committee
were asked to provide comments/recommendations to AMSAA concern-
ing the proposals. We used a portion of the day's meeting to
discuss our comments. Major points discussed are. covered below:
a. GRILL FLAME Classification Guide: No discussion on
this subject since we had already provided a response via message
and AMSAA had no questions concerning our input.
Approved For Release 2001/
CLASSIFIED BY: Director, DIA
DECLASSIFY ON: 7 June 99
EXTENDED BY: Director, DIA
REASON: 2-301-C (3) (6)
 Approved For Release 2001 -FIDP96-00788R002000240032-0
IAFM-OPS-HUP 7 June 1979
SUBJECT: Monthly Exchange of Ideas, Technical Advances, and
Future Plans: AMSAA and INSCOM GRILL FLAME Personnel
(U)
b. We felt that even though the concept of target beacon
is relatively cumbersome and is manpower intensive compared
with coordinate RV that the technique is still necessary to
develop and is easier to initially accept. John Kramar, AMSAA,
does not agree with our viewpoint.
c. AMSAA felt (John Kramar) that the general nature of
targets in the Aberdeen Area do not lend themselves to being
good targets for incontroversial RV demonstration. We proposed
that perhaps the cause might be the process used to select the
targets rather than the targets themselves. Mr. Kramar seems
to be of the view that, at all costs, the targets must be
isolated and free from any possibility that the RVers had any
target knowledge beforehand. NOTE: This means that the target
cannot have been contaminated by prior exposure to the RVer even
if that exposure took place weeks, months, etc. ago.
d. We recommended that the target package they proposed
to provide to the RVers for feedback include more data than
just a photograph. Package should include all written data
known about the target, to include, if appropriate, intelligence
from other intelligence sources, i.e. HUMINT, SIGINT. We
commented that photo feedback only provides the RVer with
visual perspective and neglects the other senses.
e. We felt that several of the proposals concerning
target selection would create an artificial situation and lead
to some type of funneling regarding target selection. We
discussed, in some detail, these points and AMSAA will examine
each of them.
f. We pointed out that after all was said and done, their
proposals still did not define what they meant by "success" as
regards a remote viewing session. Lynne Taylor agreed and
stated that such a statement would be included when they rewrite
their proposals.
4. (U) AMSAA will be rewriting their proposals and hopefully
they will receive input from other DOD Agencies prior to doing
additional work. Hopefully, our comments will help them over-
come some problem areas.
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 Approved For Release 2001/ MtGUV`A=RDP96-00788R002000240032-0
IAFM-OPS-HUP 7 June 1979
SUBJECT: Monthly Exchange of Ideas, Technical Advances, and
Future Plans: AMSAA and iNSCOM GRILL FLAME Personnel
(U)
5. (U) I did have the opportunity to meet with John Kramar,
AMSAA Project Officer on GRILL FLAME, later in the afternoon.
As mentioned previously, he did not agree with all our proposals
but appreciated the fact that we had studied their material.
6. (S) An interesting aspect of AMSAA's future plans is that
in order to establish the existence or non-existence of a form
of psychic phenomena known as Remote Viewing they will only
use a technique of RV that involves the use of Grid Coordinates.
NOTE: This concerns me because I'm not sure they have personnel
trained in such a technique and, more importantly, they are
ignoring the beacon technique which seems to be easier to
accomplish and yet still would establish the stated objective.
7. (U) No time was set for the next meeting, but it will be
after the next DOD GRILL FLAME Committee meeting which is
scheduled for 12 July 1979.
MURRAY B . \ WATT
Major, MI
INSCOM GRILL FLAME
Project Manager
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