CENTER LANE INTERVIEW SUMMARY - HU-1072/8404/63

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00788R001900570001-0
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 31
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 23, 1998
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: July 6, 1984
• Content Type: MFR

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IAGPA-F-SD 06 July 1984
MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD
SUBJECT: CENTER LANE Interview Summary - HU-1072/8404/63 (U)
1. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) On 290810 March 1984, source #63 was
interviewed by monitor #66 in an attempt to verify the suspected
location of an individual identified as William F. Buckley. The
project 8404 sponsor had provided an overhead photograph of the
suspected building, a map of the area, and a photograph of
Buckley (see Incl 1).
2. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) For this interview source was initially
shown the photograph of Buckley and asked to describe his
perceptions of Buckley's location. No other identifying data
was provided to source at the time of the interview. After the
interview, source was shown the overhead photograph. All other
intelligence information was withheld for use as feedback and
cuing for possible subsequent interviews.
3. (U) A transcript of the interview was prepared (see Incl 2).
4. (U) A DA Form 341 (Agent Report) was prepared for the
sponsor. This report related the salient points of the
interview. Attached to the report was a drawing provided by
source and an overhead photograph depicting the suspected
location of Buckley and an area of interest to source (see Incl
3).
Association with the below named individual and Military
Intelligence is CONFIDENTIAL.
3 Incl
as
SG1I
NOTE: Information of immediate operational value was provided to
sponsor immediately, or as soon as possible, after the interview.
CLASSIFIED BY: CDR, INSCOM
WARNING NOTICE! DECL: OADR
Cent et ~>ct+ er SPECIAL ACCESS PROGRAM
RESTRICT DISSEMINATION TO THOSE NOT RELEASABLE TO PO FEIGIT NATIONALS
WITH VERIFIED ACCESS
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HU-1072/8404/63
#66: This will be a CENTER LANE Interview 0810 hours 29
March 1984. I've provided you with a photograph of
an individual which you located yesterday. Today,
using this. photograph to focus your attention on
his location and describe his location to me.
#63: ...... Miss break .... A is flat, solid, man made, B
is, no B. Miss break ...... A is flat, solid, man
made, B is building. Stage 2---gray, block shaped,
large.
#66: Be careful of your structure, there (mumble)
dimensions.
#63: Um, um.
#66: Build in stage 2.
#63: Patterned, square pattern .......... A is rising, man
made, B is building, stage 2---square,....AI
break--I don't know what it was.
Stage 2---dimensional, AT, EI, T, I, AOL, AOL/SIG.
Dimensional---squarish, dimensional is large, AI
break---strange. ........ Sketch,....tangible---is
building, dimensional---is large, stage 2--is gray,
...........intangibles---confusion break, AOL
break--atrium.
#66: Describe, before you go on, describe to me what
atrium means to you.
#63: A hole in the middle of a building.
#66: All right.
#63: And again, as yesterday, it's a sort of a strange
thing, I don't know whether it's a hole from
looking down on it or from underneath of it.
#66: AOL break that reminds me of atrium concept?
#63: Um, um.
#66: Need to reacquire in stage 4, location of
individual in photograph.
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#63: ......Tangible---is room,.... tangible---is
partition, AOL break---like a counter, like when
you walk into the principal's office, they've
always got a big counter that you walk up to, to
talk to the secretaries and stuff, that sort of
thing.
#66: Something in this place where he is, is like that.
#63: Um, um.
#66: That's about all you know.
#63: Um, um. Sketch---.......
#66: (mumble) been able to sketch.
#63: Um, um. Okay. Tangible --is room,
#66: This becomes a sketch. of the room.
#63: Tangible---is petition, and I've labeled counter on
the sketch.
#66: This becomes the room within the building.
#63: Um, um.
#66: All right, fine. Working on a stage (mumble)
matrix of the room within the building.
#63: Stage 2---is patterned wall, square pattern.
#66: That would be stage 2, patterns, tangibles, wall?
#63: Um, um. (mumble) wall, gray, stage 2-- is gray,
stage 2--is blue, stage 2---is white. Sketch---AOL
break--piano, that's a sketch of this object here.
#66: The object in the room not labeled in the building?
#63: Yes. Stage 2, Dimensional, AT, EI, T, I, AOL,
AOL/SIG. Sketch ----- AOL break---row of
drawers,.... sketch---........ AI break--strange
piece of equipment.
#66: Okay, if I understanding that AOL break now, my
understanding that sketches on page 4 represent
objects and things in the room?
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#63: Yes, this is still that object behind the counter
and I will label that object. And this is the room
where I place him.
#66: Okay, something strange, like you've drawn there is
in the room.
#63: Um, um
#66: Okay.
#63: A console or desk of some kind, AOL break---console
or desk of some kind.
#66: Seems ornate or having unusual curves or patterns
(mumbles) on this thing.
#63: It's modern, intangible--is modern, stage 2---is
gray, brown, stage 2--is flat,
dimensional--tangibles--is top, dimensional is
raised, tangible--is top, ...... tangible--is knobs,
S2, D, AI,EI, T, I, AOL, AOL/SIG. Dimensional--is
large hallways, tangibles--hallways,
..intangibles--classroom type environment,....
dimensional---is large, stage 2---squarish,
tangible--building.
#66: Okay.
#63: Dimensional--it's surrounded,... tangible --- are
trees, ...... intangible---is park like environment.
#66: Okay.
#63: Dimensional---is multi floors, dimensional---multi,
tangible--is floors, ..... AOL break---He's not on
the ground floor. It's an AOL because it's not on
the ground floor, as opposed to saying what floor
he is on.
#66: Um, um. Okay, I want to hold on to the break for a
minute, because I have a question.
#63: Okay.
#66: Looking at, spread your sheets out here, is this
multi story building the same as you have sketched
on page 2 with atrium like view?
#63: Um, um.
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#66: You feel like you're in the same place?
#63: Um, um.
#66: You haven't changed, okay, good. Now at this
point, holding on the break, I would like you to
summarize the building as you see it now.
#63: All right.
#66: Poor choice of words, as you know it now.
#63: ..... Largsquare shaped, atrium of some sort.
#66: Okay, in a summary, the AOL concepts would go with
conditional words, right?
#63: Um, um
#66: Fine. So you might say like an atrium, or remind
me of an atrium, you wouldn't want that in a
written summary the AOL gets written in terms of--
#63: --Something an analyst would understand.
#66: Right, conditional (mumble). What else--
#63: We put in () maybe a covered atrium, maybe that's
why it's so confusing to me.
#66: Okay.
#63: Gray, (dark gray) in color, surrounded by a park
like environment, trees, roads. Intangibles--is
official. Building is official feeling.
#66: A school like feeling or was that (mumble)---
#63: Um, um, no that's inside.
#66: That's intangible?
#63: Yeah.
#66: Okay.
#63: Building is official feeling and has a classroom
type feeling inside.
#66: Let's see if we can describe the inside a little
bit more, describe the patterned walls, the colors
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in the patterned walls. Look back at your sheet,
(mumble) access in your mind.
#63: Okay, let's see. Inside, large hallway, steps in
hallways.
#66: Do we still have the open in the center feeling
here, when we talk about the inside?
#66: Okay.
#63: I'm inside and ---
#66: Fine, I understand. You're kind of too narrow
focussed in hallway to wonder what else is around
you. Okay.
#63: Okay. Inside the room has a square patterned wall,
like this.
#66: Do you associate any colors?
#63: Hm?
#66: Do you associate any colors with the patterns?
Look back up here.
#63: Yeah, I got, went up to the (mumble) square
patterned wall like acoustic tile sort of.
#66: Is that a conditional AOL? It seems to me you've
listed a lot of colors for those patterns.
#63: Yeah, well, the, from about half way up is acoustic
tile like substance, white in color. And then from
half way down the wall is blue, gray or blue or
gray. This room has a partition like a counter top
as you enter the room. Behind this is the desk or
console like object.
#66: Okay. Now, have we got our pages numbered so we
know where we are.
#66: Okay. Okay, let's move to a clean sheet of, paper
now, where we are 1,2,3,4.5,6.
#63: 6.
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#66: On page 7, using the photograph as cuing, give me a
stage 3 sketch of the building in the-center of the
page.
#63: Doesn't make much sense, but that's what keeps
coming back.
#66: All right, fine. Now on----okay, fine, picture the
idea here, sketch an idea, that's good. Now, at
the top of page 7, put N for north. Now you have a
feeling then for North is kind of to your upper
left.
#63: Um, um.
#66: Okay, that's fine. So go ahead and label the
pages, objectify on the page, North is that way,
south is that way, and east and west.
#63: Okay.
#66: Just put little letters. Okay, now page 8. And
you can work your from stage 1 on. We'll go first
north of the building, your cuing is north of the
building.
#63: Okay, just a second. There's a big road up here.
#66: Big road north of building.
#63: And another road's running down here, smaller road.
#66: Smaller road--
#63: East of building.
#66: --east of building.
#63: West of building. Sorry.
#66: A smaller road west of building, all right.
#63: A "w" sideways looks like an E.
#66: All right.
#63: Underline it so it doesn't it get confused there.
#66: Okay, are we ready to move in another direction,
you're are declared with that way or do you want to
to on.
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#63: Yeah, let's go ahead and leave with that.
#66: All right.
#63: Let's say we go to east now.
#66: All right.
#63: Sketch---to the building, east of our building.
It's lower area, (mumble) low ground. There's
several buildings, seem to build on one another.
There are trees here too.
#66: Okay.
#63: So now we need to go south.
#66: go south.
#63: .....Wooded area ...... flat wooded area .... This is
our building, label it site and south is this way
and you got a flat wooded area here, and there's
something long .......... I'm unsure what that is.
#66: Square object?
#63: Yeah, it could be a road or a ...long building.
#66: Some squarish type object?
#63: Um, um.
#66: Not sure what it is, okay. That's the other side
of the forest?
#63: Um, um.
#66: All right. We will have one more task then.
#63: All right.
#66: We'll go on to page 9 where cuing. Now using the
photograph I've shown you of this individual and
you've now described his physical location, the
building and this room, now describe to me other
people in and around the person in the photograph.
#63: Okay.
#66: And we can just call that significant others.
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#63: Okay. ......People.......official person, AOL
break--I'm almost ashamed to declare this.--like COL
Klink in Hogan's Heros.
#66: You're reminded of a COL Klink type person in the
military or something.
#63: Whatever his name was, Klinger or something.
#66: Klink (mumble). Okay, I suggest you put your stage
4 matrix across your paper so that you have some
structure in which you may work.
#63: Okay. S2, D, AI, EI, T, I, AOL, AOL/SIG.
#66: Looking for significant others at that location of
interest.
#63: Our guy's anxious ..... butterflies in the stomach
type anxious ...... (gurgle in #63's stomach said
"come up", jean's note) .........Tangible---people,
stage 2---is in dark color, clothes.
#66: Clothes is a tangible?
#63: Tangible, right. In the same room, tangible---is
in the room, dimensional --- is near door, .....
dimensional---is many people, tangible---is people,
.....dimensional---10 to 12 people, ....coming and
going ....... tangible---is clothes, stage 2---is
similar, dark,..... intangible---is foreign, ...
Stage 2---is fair complected. Stage 2---is dark,
tangible---is hair, dimensional---is short hair,
tangible --- is hair. ........... (mumble) um..
confusion break---okay, I feel like he, our man, is
on north side of building,.....
#66:
Declare the confusion.
#63:
Uh?
#66:
Declare the confusion.
#63:
Yes, I'm doing, well, the confusion
is,
really not
where to put it and why it came in
now,
other than
EI --- are very people related and if
he
were going
to try to talk to me and tell me where he was, I
think it would come through on the EIs and that's
what I was prompting for at the time I got the and
I feel like he's on the north side of the building,
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not on the ground floor, like 2nd floor maybe.
Okay, this is north face of building, like he's
right about there (x).
#66: Okay.
#66: We'll worry about that later. Your north versus
compass north is not relevant, as long as north is
separate from (mumble)
#63: Yeah. Okay, I have an AOL break---of German, World
War II uniforms.
#66: Just about ready to end now, so I would like you to
kind of open yourself up to the signal line and see
what comes in here as we rap this up.
#63: That's about it, I've drawn a little sketch here
again trying to show where I keep feeling where he
is.
#66: Within in the building?
#63: Um, um.
#66: Okay.
#63: You got that?
#66: Okay, we'll do an end there. At this time, I'm
going to show you some overhead imagery of a
general location. I'd like to now get your opinion
and discussion and your feelings about this
overhead imagery.
#63: All right.
#66: Now, I have to caution you that there are some
arrows and things on this which may or may not
apply, so I don't want you to be prejudged by the
arrows on the map. Because they have the words
"suspected building" on here, but as we learned
late yesterday, this is more like a suspected
neighborhood or area versus any one particular
building.
#63: That feels good.
#66: Right, I have the exact (mumble)
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#63: Wooded area and a strange building with things
jutting out from it like that, the funny pointed
roof on that.
#66: Let the tape reflect that the source indicated,
without orienting now, has indicated the area of
interest yesterday, which I don't feel at liberty
to say what it is now, but it's the area of
interest yesterday with the, what he described as
the Washington Monument like tower next to it which
you didn't happen to mention today. Now,
yesterday, the photograph you were shown did not
show this, it was like that.
#63: Um, um.
#66: All right. Source has indicated his feeling about
the square shaped with the open center. Okay,
let's, I'll let you look through the rest of these
and we have some different angles here, you can see
we're in the same neighborhood.
#63: And it's also open from underneath.
#66: Okay. source also notes that the square shaped
thing is opened from underneath as he sees from
this different angle here.
#63: Is that a cemetery or something?
#66: Yes. Now, we're going to look at another angle
here which is about the same.
#63: That doesn't look, the straight(mumble) it doesn't
look like place they could hold anybody though, it
looks like a big open walkway area or something.
#66: Okay. I know what it is, so don't worry about it.
Now, at this time, using these photographs, let's
take your stage 3 sketch and see if we can't orient
anything with your stage 3 sketch. The first thing
thing we'll do is orient your north with map north.
#63: Okay.
#66: Okay, now let's orient the word "big road" with big
road. Okay, where we orient "big road" we get the
big road here and the smaller road to the left,
that seems to orient. Now, opposite labeled big
road would be the south area, and what do we have
in south declaration?
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#63: Wooded, flat wooded area.
#66: Okay, let me see, where's your piece here.
#63: Let's see, number 8.
#66: Page 8.
#63: There it is.
#66: Page 8, south we should see wooded area and then--
#63: --It comes to an abrupt halt down here on something.
#66: ---Unsure road or long building. Okay, if we look
to the opposite we see a wooded area, followed by a
cemetery here and I can't tell from this
photograph, let's look back at something here,
....All we can see is a wooded area and the flat
cemetery here and we can't tell what your strange
object is. Now all these things are
headstones,..is this funny thing, funny squarish
things is headstones.
#63: I would tend to believe it's something like this, I
had the feeling of something long and that it ended
the wooded area.
#66: Oh, so the wooded area was bounded by something,
ay.
#63: Um, um
#66: Maybe road, maybe something long, okay. And the
woods and this.
#63: The fenced in area, here.
#66: Right.
#63: It's long or something.
#66: It definitely has a deliberate stop to it though?
#63: Yes.
#66:
Okay, now, so if we, we're going back now to the
map orientation, big road matches, small road
matches, wooded area matches, let's see what we can
find opposite small road, what was supposed to be
there?
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#63: East on mine,, well we should be south on the actual
map, I said there was a tall building that has
protrusions jutting out from it and it's got sort
of a peaked roof on it.
#66: We do have a funny shaped building with a very
strange roof on it and little strange things on the
side and of course we're not concerned with
distance, because you're not addressing yourself to
distance.
#63: Um, um.
#66: So we do have what looks like maybe a match in
terms of orientation, if we match big road, we get
little road, and we get forest and we get funny
building with striations, this one here. Let's
look at some different angles and see if we can't
get size. I can't see from the angles we have how
many floors that might be. Now our angles just
don't show it.
#63: But, (mumble) 2 inches along the side here, I mean
it's very definitely like that.
#66: Okay. Yesterday,. of note is yesterday when I told
you to go to the place, I think you wound up here,
if you remember yesterday, you're drawings look a
lot like that too, maybe you don't remember
yesterday's drawings. And when I asked you to look
across the way or across the street, you started
talking about the Washington Monument building,
which is not more than 50 feet away. I thought I
was asking you to do this, but you insisted on
talking about this. Now notice when you said
surrounded, not only did it have forest surrounding
it but it has very deliberate wall around it here.
#63: Um, um
#66: This whole thing can be considered one unit, I know
what this is and this is one function, like Ft
Meade is one function, this is one functional
entity here.
#63: Let's see...now this is what I had as north.
#66: North means road to us?
#63:
Um, um, okay so, north should be big road, right,
so the location I have him in is here.
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#66: Um, um. The question is that he might be over in
this one too. Being this is a singular unit
through the day time, you may go all through this
area.
#63: Um, um.
#66: So, I guess we can say, we can end by saying then
that you find him on the big road side of the
building somehow. The room in which he's located
is on the big road side of the building.
#63: Let me think, okay.
#66: All right.
#63: Okay. ........... (mumble) here, there .... yes big
road side.
#66: Okay, big road side of the building. Now, let's
rap it up then. Thank you very much.
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 1. NAME OF SUBJECT OR TITLE OF INCIDENT
Approved For R se 200
For use of this form, see FM 30.17(C) AR 381-20; the proponent agency 7. *W. Office of the deck,tont Chi of of Staff for Intelligence.
PROJECT FRANCIS
4. REPORT OF FRJDINGS
On 29 March 1984, Source IS-63 was interviewed in an
attempt to verify the suspected location of SUBJECT. Source
stated substantially as follows:
Source was unable to verify the suspected location of
SUBJECT. SUBJECT was.in a large square atrium like building
.(see-EXHIBIT I). The building was dark gray in color and was
surrounded by..a.park like environment with trees and roads.
The building had an official/classroom (not further
identified) type appearance inside. Inside'-the building were
large. hallways with steps in the hallways. At the conclusion
of the interview Source was shown an overhead photograph of
the suspected location. Source indicated SUBJECT was most
likely located in an area similar to the mosque shown in the
upper left of the overhead photograph (see EXHIBIT II) near
the suspect building.
Source provided no further amplifying information on the
location of SUBJECT during this interview.
Attached hereto as EXHIBIT I is a drawing provided by
Source. EXHIBIT II is an overhead photograph depicting the
suspected location of SUBJECT and an area of interest to
Source.
WARNING NOTICE: SENSITIVE CLASSIFIED BY:
INTELLIGENCE SOURCES AND DECL:. OADR
METHODS INVOLVED
NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN
NATIONALS
5. TYPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT
FORM REPLACES WD AGO FO `~ 1 JU j -1P~, 1 fQlf 4 g eiri~i .D. *U.S. etawrnmgnt Printing Offices 1982-261-1a186t9228
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ARMY
IN EL LWG E CE AND SECURITY
COMMAND
EXHIBIT
COVER SHEET
SUBJECT:
FILE NUMBER: `1u-1O72-/84a4/63
PREPARING UNIT:
AGENT REPORT DATED:
DESCRIPTION: Drawings
PFGRADED UN'CLA'SSIFIED
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IA Label 1 ..',;ro iUCLOSURES
1 Tan 78)
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Approved For Release 2000/08
IA-RDP96-00788R OO1 00570001-0
 Approved For Release 2000/08108 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001900570001-0
US ARMY
INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY
COMMAND
EXHIBIT
COVER SHEET
SUBJECT:PROJECT FRANCIS
FILE NUMBER: Hu-1o72/6404/63
PREPARING UNIT:
AGENT REPORT BATED:
DESCRIPTION: Overhead photograph
Approved For Release 2000/08/08: (SIB P96-00788R00190057d I;
TA Label 1 ~.4
1 Jan 78
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Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788RO01 900570001 -0
Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788RO01 900570001 -0