CENTER LANE INTERVIEW SUMMARY - HU-1041/8307/01

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00788R001600420001-9
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 18
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 18, 1998
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: October 18, 1983
• Content Type: REPORT

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18 October 1983
MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD
SUBJECT: CENTER LANE Interview Summary - HU-1041/8307/01 (U)
1. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) On 120900 October 1983, source #01 was
interviewed concerning Area "H", a building within a group of
buildings with which source was familiar. The project 8307
sponsor had provided geographic coordinates of the buildings,
a photograph of the buildings, and a map showing their
relative location (see Incl 1).
3. (U) A transcript of the interview was prepared including
a narritive explanation of Source's drawing (see Inca 2).
4. (U) A DA Form 341 (Agent Report) was prepared for the
sponsor. Attached to the report as EXHIBIT I was a copy of
Source's drawings. This report related the salient points of
the interview. (see Incl 3).
3 Incl
as
FREDERICK H. ATWATER
CPT, MI
OPS/TNG Officer
CLASSIFIED BY: CDR, INSCOM
DECL: OADR
IJOT IELEASADLE TO FOEEI_GN NZTIOINALS
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TRANSCRIPT
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HU-1041/8307/01
#66: This will be a CENTER LANE Interview for 0900 hours
12 October 1983. Relax and concentrate now. Relax
and focus your attention on the building you know
as area "H". Focus now on the upper floors of area
"H" and describe your perceptions to me.
#01: ...Get a vault...entry..large steel door ...inside is
another door with bars. ....See racks
of...multiple booklet packs... stacked on the
racks. ......... Sense that these are made there,
...tissue paper wrappings, polished wrapping paper,
waxed. Paper's sealed.. .on the edges of the
books. ..... Just surrounded by books,...small
...Sense nobody is here.
#66: Okay, examine one of the packets of books.
#01: ..... Very thin paper, then it's sealed with
paper,...hard cardboard exterior.
#66: Okay now, tell me about the packets themselves.
#01: I see...two tacks of six, three stacks of two in
each stack of six. Two stacks of six books, bound
with a...bound with a.... plastic of some kind,
...some kind of plastic.
#66: Now these, do I understand that the books are
packed in two's or in pairs of some kind?
#01: They're face to face, numbers showing on the edge,
identical numbers on the'edge.
#66: Okay. Are the booklets, these two things that are
packed face to face with numbers on the edge, are
the two books different in any way?
#01: Just a minute, I'll look. ........ See a double
column, gray and white with digits super imposed,
digits in gray columns are in the white column on
the other half, ...and vice-versa, ..but they're
the same,...equate to..a..numbers, ..two digit
numbers, 00 through 99,...represent digits or
design ahhh...symbols.
#66: Okay do I understand that these are the books
themselves, these two books with the same number,
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are they identical or are they different in some
way?
#01: ..Difference in their columns,.. numbers in first
book in gray column is in second book, white column.
#66: All right.
#01: They're the same numbers.
#66: All right. May I summarize then by saying that the
information is the same but formatted differently?
#01: ...Format's same,..just in different color.
#66: All right. Now I'd like to address another area
now.
#01: Okay.
#66: This area you're in seems to have a massive amount
of these booklets around you. I'm interested in
the process by which these may be sent someplace
else and in this process, how many of them are sent
at any one time out of this room and how often that
occurs?
#01: ..Just a minute. ...... See ah bundles in...metal
crates,... bundles of twelve being shipped on
a...everyday. See some kind of red characters
painted vertically on corner of box. ..Each bundle
has..got different characters ....... loaded into
a..all metal truck with guards, like armored car.
.. ....Just a minute. ....... NoI
get... impression of ...once ah...once a year these
are sent to each receiving point. Certain areas
are different months. They always go in
ah...silver and metal boxes with red paint on the
side, horizontal, always loaded with guards into
armored type van. See a...air transport
used,... receipt system, but only signing for metal
boxes. ...Always shipped one way, never returned.
#66: Okay, I have a question for clarification.
#01: Okay.
#66: You originally said something about daily, and then
you said that once a year these crates are shipped
to any particular designation. Can I assume that
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to mean that the activity of shipping at area "H"
is a daily activity but that one silver box goes to
any particular location only once a year?
#01: Just a minute. ...... That's correct in most
cases. ...See a..now and then seem to get
deviation.. for some reason. All seem to go in the
same direction, ...somewhere extreme north,
..mountains. ..... Just get input ...snow and ice
and mountains.
#66: Okay,return to area "H" now.
#01: Just a minute. ...... Okay.
#66: Okay, are any of these booklets used here in area
"H" or the immediate vicinity?
#01: Um, no. Get a strong service... feeling, provides
service ..elsewhere.
#66: Okay. Go to a location where these booklets are
used.
#01: .....Okay, very low echelon.
#66: Freeing in time, watch the use of a booklet and
describe.
#01: .....See a ....special kind of writing ..... hand
moving rapidly over paper circling specific
symbols,..equivelant number of-the symbol is
written from circled area. .... Ah..numbers are
punched on a tape,..papers, ..fed into a reader of
some kind, ..other side copies what it gets.
#66: Break out "other side copies what it gets."
#01: Just see hand over circles,.. circling numbers.
#66: Okay, move back through your procedure here and
walk me through step by step how this individual,
you know, f rom the time he picks up one of these
things and what he actually physically does, just
the taw data what you see him physically do.
#01: ....Opens the book, ahh, checks 6 digit number in
upper right corner, ...bottom left corner... reads
from paper, characters, circles characters, copies
numbers, equating. ....Puts numbers in machine
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that makes a tape of paper. Puts tape of paper in
m, machine which. .a...reads it very fast. That's
all, then it's gone.
#66: All right. Return now to present time area "H".
#01: Okay.
#66: All right, looking now at these booklets
surrounding you in area "H", ask yourself the
question, "where are these books printed?"
#01: ..See separate building, low, same area. Get a
feeling significant difference between this
separate building and function of production and
overall feeling of building where books are
stored. ...Gone to long, I forgot your question.
#66: All right. Describe the area where the books are
printed.
#01: ....See a ...special kind of machine with starter
numbers. I don't know what that means, but it's
like a master row of numbers that can be changed.
Each book is altered (mumble) the master numbers.
Each pair of books that is. See more than just few
of these machines, big rolls of tissue paper, .
large stamp type machines ..that can drive staples
and that cut through thick-paper stacks.
#66: All right. Where is this area in relationship with
area "H"?
#01: ........ Get an impression it's ..on line with
....current area "H" and ..a ah..formation of trees
of some kind, trees or stantions or something ...
inside 1500 meters---
#66: All right.
#01: ---separate fenced area.
#66: Okay, return to area "H" and the booklets again.
#01: Okay.
#66: Okay. Let's take it more of a physical
description. Return to the place what you observed
earlier where an individual actually used a booklet
and looked at the pages and circled some things on
the ages.
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#01: ....What I see ah ....... see application of water,
desolves paper.
#66: Okay. Return to area "H" and booklets.
#01: Okay.
#66: I have no further questions concerning area "H" and
the booklets. I'd like now to explore on your own
beyond the confines of my questions, remembering
that which you perceive so that you may draw it for
me later.
#01: ......That's all I got.
#66: All right.
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DRAWING EXPLANATION
#01: Okay, Page #1, figure A is a representation of how
the twelve double packs of books are stacked prior
to being shipped. The twelve.packets representing
an annual packet that's delivered on a one time
shot, even though they are delivering these
packages year round are each different particular
target area that's being delivered books or being
delivered books on an annual basis. They're in
stack of three doubles, six doubles to a side and
twelve doubles square. It's not perfectly square
either. The double books are identical except for
the color change in the columns.
#01: Figure B is representation of a silver metal case
with a snap on cover and it's wrapped in metal
bands and it's got a red seal in the center and
red letters are stenciled vertically on the end of
the box. That's how it's actually shipped and
that's load into a armored type vehicle with
enclosed vehicle.
#66: You said there was a receipt type system where
ever this box went there was a receipt type system?
#01: Yeah, and it's the box and the seal that's worried
about, not so much what's inside, as far, as the
receipting system goes.
#66: Okay, Im have another question that's really off
the wall.
#01: Okay.
#66: Do the people that handle this through the receipt
systems of sending this out, do they know what's
in the boxes?
#01: No, they don't have any idea, they just "go do it
boys", you know.
#66: Okay.
#01: Page #2 is a representation of one of the books
with the cover opened. They seem to be bound in
hard cardboard covers and what I had before is the
silver wrapping or a foil type wrapping,now
appears to be more of a plastic type finish, sort
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of like a Milar, I guess. the book is always
circled from upright corner to bottom left corner,
going down the page and across to the left from
the right side. I give an example of the numbers
and symbols. Only difference in the books of a
double pair is the color of the columns and that
changes from one book to the other. I'm also not
sure about the characterizations of the numbers,
you know, these are just remote viewing
representations of numbers. These are numbers but
there also seems to be some symbology there as
well.
#01: Page #3 is a flow chart, Al and A2 is a selection
of a page from the book and data, just some
general data. B is where the page in the book is
circled a certain way and then a list of numbers
that's produced and then those numbers are put on
to a spool type and then the type's mounted into
some kind of machine. I wrote "passed
electrically" but I'm not sure about that, there's
something about speed there or time or something
that's screwed up and I'm not sure why they would
transpose it to a reel tape. But anyway--. F is
the list, of numbers that come from the reel and
produce circles or numbers and symbols on the
page. I just get a production of data out of that
and the pages are dissolved in water.
#66: Okay, from F on it seems like sort of like a
mirror image of what's above there.
#01: Yeah, (mumble) right.
#66: Okay.
#01: But B and E are really confusing to me. I can't
handle what those are.
#66: Okay. Anything else?
#01: No, that's all.
#66: Okay.
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GWT ME PORT
On 12 October 1983, Source Z6-01 was interviewed
concerning activities and material on the upper floors of the
building known to him as Area H. Source stated substantially
as follows:
This was a vault area with a large steel entry door and
another door with bars. Inside the vault area were multiple
booklet packs stacked on racks. The booklets were made of
very thin paper with a hard cardboard exterior and sealed with
polished or waxed wrapping paper. The booklets were packed in
pairs face to face with numbers (not further identified) on
the edge. The booklets in the pairs were different only in
the colors of the columns, white/gray vice gray/white, inside
the booklets. The two digit numbers 00 through 99 (not
further identified) and symbols (not further identified) in
the booklets were the same.
These booklets were printed in a building approximately
1500 meters from Area H in a separate fenced area. In this
building was a special kind of machine (not further
identified) with starter numbers (not further identified)
This "master row of numbers" was changeable and each pair of
booklets was altered (not further identified) by and/or with
"the master numbers." The building contained many of these
machines, rolls of tissue paper, and large stamp type machines
which looked like they could drive staples and cut. through
thick paper stacks.
Metal boxes or crates containing twelve pairs of booklets
(see drawing 1) were shipped from Area H to "very low echelon"
(not further identified) locations on an annual basis. "Now
WARNING NOTICE: SENSITIVE CLASSIFIED BY: CDR, INSCOM
INTELLIGENCE SOURCES AND DECL: OADR
METHODS INVOLVED
NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN
NATIONALS
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For loose of this form, see FM 30-17(C); AR 381-20; the proponent agency is the Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff for intaiLigenee.
i. M,4Mf OF SUUIECT O4i THE OF INCIDENT J 2. DATE 54;tFMCTTED
SG1A
TAU-1041/0307/01
4. WFORT Of rMW*5
and. then" there were deviations (not further identified) from
this annual procedure. Some of the booklets were shipped to
an area of mountains covered with snow and ice in the extreme
north (not further identified). Shipment of the metal boxes
involved the use of guards, a receipt system, and ground and
air transport. Shipment of the booklets was always one way;
they were not returned to Area H ,
"very low echelon" personnel who used the booklets
followed a prescribed procedure (see drawings 2 and 3). First
they checked a "six digit number in the upper right
corner/bottom left corner" (not further identified) of a page
in a booklet. Second, they read characters from a paper. (not
further identified); third, they circled characters (not
further' identified, but presumably characters from the
unidentified paper) on the page in the booklet:; fourth, they
copied character equivalant numbers (not further identified)
on a piece of paper; fifth, they placed these numbers into a
-rachine "that makes a tape of paper" (not: further
identified). In the final step, they placed this "tape of
paper" in a machine which "reads it very fast" (not further
i
dent:ified) Thhi
. .is macne may have been an electronic
further identified, but possibly the other side of a
ordered procedure (see F, G and I-I of drawing-3)1.+ After pages
in the
b
. - h e' in i n
water
Source provided no further amplifyin
f
gn
ormation
i concerning SUBJECT during this interview.
Attached hereto as EXh IB31'T? I are drawings provided by
Source
*U.S. Government PrFnttne 2?ftlgie: S9I2-3e eeJes3?
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US ARMY
I TE .LI E CE AND SECURITY
COMMAND
EXHIBIT
COVER SHEET
SUBJECT:
FILE NUMBER: ,u-1041/8307/01
PREPARING UNIT:
AGENT REPORT DATED:
DESCRIPTION:
DRAWINGS
4 j ' $ u r'~tiL :O F01?EIGN NATIONAL
EECRET
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