INSCOM, GRILL FLAME PROJECT SESSION REPORT, SESSIONS C-51 AND C-57

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: STARGATE
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP96-00788R000100040001-7
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 55
• Document Creation Date: November 4, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 12, 1998
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: September 10, 1979
• Content Type: REPORT

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ORCON/NOFORN
INS COM
GRILL FLAME
PROJECT
SESSION REPORT
Approved For Release 2000/18
CLASSIFIED BY: Director, DIA
REVi5W ON: 30 Sep 99
EXTENDED BY: Director, DIA
REASON: 2-301-C (3) (6)
D P 9 6 kiRitt) E
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SECRET
SUMMARY ANALYSIS
REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSIONS C51 and C57
1. (S) This report provides documentation of two remote view-
ing sessions conducted at the request of the ADCSOPS-HUMINT,
SG1A INSCOM against a Further sessions
may be scheduled against this target. The mission was to locate,
identify and report the status of the target at the given geo-
graphic coordinate.
2. (S) Although the remote viewer was very cheerful and
relaxed for both sessions, it does not appear that he was able
to concentrate on the task given to him. Outjgde noise level,
for both sessions, was extremely high--including band playing and
17 gun salute. Target correlation factors do not appear to be
present and broad generalized data given by the remote viewer is
almost impossible to match to known terrain features.
3. (S) The protocol used for this session is detailed in the
document, GRILL FLAME Protocol, AMSAA Applied Remote Viewing
Protocol (S), undated.
4. (S) Following are transcripts of the viewer's impressions
during the remote viewing sessions. At TAB A are drawings made
by the viewer reference his impressions of the target site.
TAB B will contain analyst comments when completed.
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TAB
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TRANSCRIPT
REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION C 51
#6.5: This will be a remote viewing session (edited for
security).
SG1A
PAUSE
Okay #29, its now 10 o'clock and we have a target
here that we need to get some information on and
the target will be identified to you by geographic
coordinates. The coordinates are:
I want you to relax, concentrate on the task at
hand and project yourself to the location of the
coordinates and tell me what you see.
#29: Can I have the number?
#6.5: On the other side.
PAUSE
SG1A
It looks like we've got everybody on Fort Meade
joining us this morning, #29. Just try to relax
and work through that. Let me read you the
coordinate again.
Try to focus on that point. Move yourself there.
And describe the area to me.
PAUSE
+06 #29: Oval. Blue. Light blue. Circle seen in per-
spective, maybe.
PAUSE
+07 Something in motion. Up and down. Like a . .
strobe picture.
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#29: Part of it is a post angled from bottom left to
UP right. But the things moves up and down along
like a track.
PAUSE
+09 Hmmm. Glimpse of a tent with something . . good
size tent. Something next to it. Metallic. Shiney.
Large. Heavy. Cylindrical tank, maybe.
+11
PAUSE
Low hills but that's. . . impression.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: That damn thing in motion again.
PAUSE
Hmm. Something like a three bladed propeller.
Sitting at that angle. Large field. The area's
flat, not . . . Like a large bowl shaped area.
Very large. Order of magnitude miles. Not a
plain surrounded by hills, just a big. . . flat
area. Not flat. Bowled. You're conscious of the
hills surrounding. . like the Shenandoah Valley, but
not.
PAUSE
Roll of canvas like that. Vertical. Horizontal.
#6.5: Um hm.
PAUSE
+13 #29: I'm not sure whether this is the same roll. Two
shiney "V" projections from the left hand end of it.
Antenna. Antenni. People. Two or three. Standing
near that thing.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
#29: Doesn't seem finished. Seems like they're working
on it. Seems like they're putting it together.
PAUSE
Analytical.
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#29: I had the sense of working there. JI don't want
to carry that thought any further. I'd like to
back off and try something else.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
+16 #29: Peaks. Like saw teeth. A whole row of tents
put together. A saw tooth roof on a factory
building, but I don't think its that. It felt
light colored, white.
PAUSE
Curved segment pinned on two ends. Metallic.
Like a bridge. Like a bridge . . . play bridge.
PAUSE
I seem to be backing up . . I'm trying to back
up from the place where I saw the tents.
+18 #6.5: Okay. It seems, #29, that you're, you know, maybe
seeing a lot of stuff from ground level. Let's go
up about 1500 feet and describe the area looking
down.
PAUSE
+19 #29: Sense of low hills, trees, forested. Large valley.
Hmm.
PAUSE
In that elevation I was trying for some kind of a
manmade pattern.
Roads. Thatshape. Y, broken off one side.
PAUSE
Comes up the valley.
PAUSE
Looks like a giant match stick. Large size.
Sticking straight up to the air. Big round end
on it. Just one. More than one??
PAUSE
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#29: That band is awfully hard to ignore. (Referring
to band playing outside viewing room.)
+22 #6.5: I don't know, I've been keeping time to it pretty
well.
You know, we've been already running for twenty
some odd minutes #29, why don't you just try to
sketch out what you've. . . . been talking about.
+25 #6.5: Yeah. Remember now, we're going to be going back
again in the next session or another session so
. . . Now, your first impressions were of the
blue, light blue, oval. And then you had this up
and down motion.
#6.5: Okay, what was really good though was that you
didn't try to analyze that initially, you know.
PAUSE
PAUSE
PAUSE
#29: I'm working on that . . . Nope. There's a sense
of a structure here that I was trying to get but I
can't. There's something down there. Something in
this area.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Okay, take me back through it would you?
#29: Oh, that thing drove me crazy.
#6.5: Um hm. All right.
#29: Light blue oval. If this is the area, there was a
. . . very round oval. . . Pardon me. Um. . ? ?
The . . a reservoir. Water inside it. Open water.
Just like a pool or a fountain but I had the ? ?
you know, good size to it.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Very round though. Regular. And had an edge. . .
Its much . . Its bigger than a fountain. Order
of magnitude: 150 feet. Maybe. That's
a guess, I don't know. But I'm trying to judge
based on the scale of a . . the . . wavelets in the
water.
Okay, 2.
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#29: I'm trying #6.5.
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#6.5: I know, I know. Then we were talking about this
up and down motion, you know.
#29: Okay.
#6.5: You got that a couple of times.
#29: There's a . . It drove me nuts. There's a track
like thing. Something maybe shaped, top view like
a barn door track. I had the feeling that there
was this track thing.
PAUSE
That is that. And that there is something irregular
in shape. . .
PAUSE
It has the appearance of being spherical, but its
not, its like a cloth. . . made out of metal that
rises and falls. Now, I can't tell whether its
my time sense . . this distorted about it. But it
seems to move . . . you get this sensation. When
Hagen had that strobe light on at the dance, the
promotion party, things are frozen.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: And things jerk up and down. So you get this routine.
That's what that's about. I don't know.
#6.5: Um hm.
PAUSE
Okay, then you saw some, you know, a big tent, you
know. . and then later on you saw a series of tents.
#29: Okay.
#6.5: Were they related to one another?
#29: No. No. Big tent. . . . Well, years ago, some
years ago, I had occasion to work on what they were
using for missiles ready tent - Now that's not right!
PAUSE
Somehow there's a ridge. Yeah, that's better.
And I had the feeling that this went on for a while.
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#29: I want to say that its a missile ready tent, but
something on the order of magnitude of that and I
had the feeling it was white canvas. Light colored
canvas.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: And then, out here was the object I think was it
not that I was describing as a cylindrical object?
#6.5: Um hm. Like a match?
#29: Hmm?
#6.5: Like a match?
#29: No. That was much later. This one was the one. .
#6.5: When you started talking about the tents, you then
saw some of the surrounding area, road, hills and
so forth.
#29: Yeah, I know this. . . Wait a minute, let me finish
this one.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: You back up the tape, you'll find that outside of
this first tent that I saw there is something
cylindrical and shiney like that and its very strange
because it sits in a cradle like this. Now, that I
think about it . . . one of them uses a locks trans-
porter that is like that but it has a wheels under-
neath it somewhere, I don't remember where. Like
that. Very shiney.
+31 What the hell!!! (Referring to 17 gun salute
outside viewing room).
They decided to shoot the band.
#6.5: Ha ha ha ha
#29: What are we doing?
#6.5: Seventeen gun salute.
#29: For who?
#6.5: Well I'm sure they are practicing for the . . this
is the odd time of month. I think they're practic-
ing for General Smith's retirement. It shouldn't
bother your concentration. Ha ha ha
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#29: I have put up with people fighting with the candy
machine. I have put up with a band. (Not audible)
up and down the thing. Now we get a 21 gun salute!
I want to go home!!
All right.
#6.5: Ha ha ha You won't know (not audible) if its quiet.
PAUSE
#29: Okay. Next. I had the feeling. . . okay. Oh, this
next thing. . .
#6.5: Well you had this thing that was a three-bladed
type thing.
#29: No, that came later.
#6.5: No it was just about then.
#29: No, 'cause I had the thing where I made the first
sketch. First. This is a metal support and I had
the feeling that around this one. . . there were
. . . a cluster of figures. . . who were working on
this thing and that's the order of magnitude of it.
These two posts were shiney. That formed the V and
that this thing here somehow was canvas shrowded.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: And its just something that was being assembled.
I had the feeling that there were more pieces that
went on it. Where they went I don't know. This
gets to be Number 4. Yeah. This is a canvas roll.
Just a loosely draped canvas roll. Its rolled back
off of part,metallic part there.
#6.5: Um hm.
PAUSE
#29: Okay. Next. Five. Was that when I gave you the
bowl?
#6.5: Well, I .
#29: Or I gave you the tent first?
#6.5: No, you . . you'd given me the large tent that we
talked about, then we talked about the three-bladed
propeller. (Not audible)
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#29: Okay. I had the feeling that there was something
up here. All right. Analytical comment the old
P38, but I could see something shaped like the cowl
. . I didn't see what would be the rest of the air-
craft.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: But I got this . . metallic. . tri-form. All right.
What's important is that the angle of the thing. .
the center line is tipped down toward the ground like
the old fashioned aircraft that used to have a tail
skin.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Is there any requirement to stand up if you're in
the middle of a remote viewing session when the band
is playing under your window place, this time, the
Star Spangled Banner.
#6.5: As long as you're indoors, no.
#29: I mean, really.
#6.5: Ha ha ha
#29: I have put up with a lot of nonsense but this is
getting out of hand.
#6.5: Well, it lends to the patriotic nature of your
mission too don't forget.
#29: Okay, I haven't drawn a three-bladed propeller
in a while.
#6.5: Ha ha ha
#29: That's the nature of the propeller. And it was
sitting shining in the sun. Very flat area. I
got the feeling a couple of times, that it was a
large flat concrete area but that was an analytical
kind of a comment because, you know, you get an
aircraft and you get a runway.
#6.5: Sure.
#29: But I have the feeling that there was a large, flat
concrete place that didn't seem to be shaped like a
runway.
#6.5: Okay.
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#29: All right. Now I'm going to give you the tents
whether they come next or not. There was a whole
row of looked like . . .personnel kind of tents.
All just drawn up neat.
At least. . . Oh. . . six or eight of these wall
type tents. These old pyramid style things.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: And in front of them was a large flat area. Again,
you know, I'm tempted to say parade ground. But,
I don't know about that. And there's. . a good
size flat area and then over here. . . is this curved
shape, like that, like that and its got a railing on
one side of it. That's when I said its something like
a fake bridge, toy bridge.
#6.5: Um hm.
PAUSE
#29: Like some brick painting company commander would
have built for cutsey and the . . Army.
These things are really closely packed.
PAUSE
About this time you asked me to back off to 15,000
feet.
#6.5: 1500.
#29: 1500.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: One of the problems that I have is I have no sense
of scale at 1500 feet.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: And so I don't know how high that was. But I went
up a while and looked down at it and . .
I get the . . feeling. . Oh, this isn't going
to draw for stones.
PAUSE
Range of hills over there. Just very gentle rolling
kind of hills with this large flat area. Now, the
. . . the . . hills are treed. They have a soft and
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furry feel to them. Like this. And . . .
the sense of scale on this was terrible. But I
had the feeling that its like you have all of this
nonsense surrounding a big open. .
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Oval area. Plain.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: Then we get to this one. I'm not sure about this
road here. All of a sudden when I looked at it now
I just got. . it snapped back and I'm wondering if
it doesn't go in this direction. In any case, if
the hills . . . are like this. . . . and like this
. . . then that would be a road pattern inside the
valley.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Like that and like this. That's the general relation-
ship of things.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: Then, I got the match stick. Which was the thing
which you were interested in. Finally got to it!
Now, .
PAUSE
#6.5: Now, let me caution you again now. You've made
the judgment that I was interested in that. . .
compared to some other things.
#29: No, I was teasing you #6.5.
#6.5: So don't try to . .
#29: The way I saw it . .
#6.5: I hate to disillusion you but I didn't even write
it down on my notes.
#29: Should I go home now or?? The way I saw it was
really interesting because it was extremely for-
shortened and jutting up at me.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Like this. Like that.
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PAUSE
#29: Very dynamic thing. Like the . .
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
#29: Nothing big enough for a hydrosphere or anything
like that. I had the feeling when I was trying
to look at it that there was some kind of striations
around it.
And then as I looked down, this was the thing I
was trying to describe. In this area at the base,
there's something.
Some kind of a structure.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Not sure of the shape of the thing. Not sure of
perspective of the thing either because that's
(not audible).
PAUSE
So, just arbitrarily we will put in a little box.
PAUSE
That's why. .
PAUSE
The shape isn't right, #6.5!
PAUSE
I've tried everything I can think of to get this
stupid thing to come out right and it won't.
There's something down there and I'm just going to
put a block blob down there and say that there is
some kind of a structure down there and I aint gonna
fool with it.
#6.5: Well, that's probably sufficient for now. Okay,
don't worry about it.
PAUSE
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#6.5: And then some how or other you feel its connected
to . .
#29: Yeah, its related. Its part of the. .
#6.5: Yeah. Okay. That's all that's important right
now. Okay.
#29: Um hm.
#6.5: Does this road patten that you here on Drawing
Number 7 lead into this area here?
#29: No.
#6.5: No.
#29: That's an analytical I want to say that
we were right in here.
#6.5: Okay. All I'm trying to do is get a perspective
of where all the little segments that you have sort
of fit together. You know you've got a series of
tent like objects and stuff like that. And you've
got the valley and this road patten runs through the
valley and
#29: How do they connect.
#6.5: Well maybe . . .
#29: Well what we're talking about is an aera inside this
valley. All of the things that I've drawn would fit
in that tiny little square. Big valley.
#6.5: Yeah. Okay. All right. Well.
#29: Take your cassance and . .
#6.5: Maybe with that note we just as well stop for now
then.
#29: I think that's all.
#6.5: Let the analyst do their job and then we'll come
back.
#29: Okay.
#6.5: Sounds good. End of session. And the music continues.
We can march right along with them.
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570
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a_
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TRANSCRIPT
REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION C57
#6.5: This is a remote viewing session (edited for
security).
PAUSE
Okay, #29, its now 10 o'clock and what we want
to do today is go back to the same target that
we were working on. Focus on that area. Concen-
trate on the area and describe the area to me.
Now, the coordinate that I want you to go to
Focus on that particular spot and describe the
area.
PAUSE
#29: I need to have the numbers written out. Sir,
I can't hold that string in my head.
Thank you.
PAUSE
+05 Something like a large spring. Conical spring.
Not a conic; parabolic spring.
PAUSE
That may be what I was looking at last week that
I was interpreting as motion.
PAUSE
Analytical comment, maybe, I don't know. Might be.
Like concertina wire going in and out of a corner.
PAUSE
+07 Large, dark horizontal object. . . in the middle
distance. Maybe. . . I can't hold it. Maybe ? ?
a mile distant.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: From where I am.
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#29: Could be a flat lake. . standing on the ground.
#6.5: Could be a what?
#29: Large flat lake.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Pond. Very dark. Looking.
#6.5: Okay.
+08 #29: Saw a flash of some kind of metal in the foreground.
PAUSE
Construction parts. Unbuilt tower.
Power transmission tower that's apart.
PAUSE
Hmm. I seem to . . . up in the air, looking down.
There's something like. . . curved radar screen.
Big. Twenty feet wide, 25-30 feet high. Looking
down on it.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Maybe bigger than that guess.
PAUSE
Remind me perspective phenomena.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
#29: Flat area. No. . . What's that?
PAUSE
+10 Shining hoop, next. Bright. Shining thing.
PAUSE
There's that large dark horizontal again. Maybe
a marsh, not a . . not a true lake.
#6.5: Um hm.
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#29: Wet. Very dark.
PAUSE
#6.5: From what angle are you viewing these #29?
PAUSE
#29: Up in the air a couple of hundred feet.
#6.5: Okay, good. While you're up in the air I want
you to go a little higher and I want you to look
around the whole countryside and describe some
of the features you can see off in a distance
on a 360 degree turn.
+13 #29: Flash of two hills and its . . its strange.
Got to, to remember this.
#6.5: Okay, sure.
#29: Like knuckles.
Well . . . yeah.
No.
PAUSE
PAUSE
PAUSE
Like I'm looking down on a thin skin . .
crescent.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Circular. . . Things are coming out tilted.
Circular object.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Sistern. . . . Water. 100 foot to 200 foot diameter.
Down close there.
#6.5: Okay, I want you to look off into the distance
and describe what you see.
PAUSE
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+15 #29: Depression between . . two more hills.
PAUSE
Something irregular on the skyline there.
Roofs. And a round. . dome thing.
PAUSE
Medeval city with a dome on a cathedral. Like.
PAUSE
+17 About. . . 120 to . . . 150 degrees from the hills
that look like knuckles.
PAUSE
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
#29: Two towers. Tall.
PAUSE
Tilted. More angled. Or I'm looking crooked.
PAUSE
+19 I get the sense of large water in that direction.
Just can't . . . it feels wet out there somewhere.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Miles. . . . Not that way, not that way, but that
way. Let's see.
PAUSE
Four to 15 miles guess.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
#29: Okay. Two towers, a gap, one tower and its bigger
than the other two.
#6.5: Um hm.
PAUSE
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#29: Its probably that (not audible).
PAUSE
There's a hill over there. Nondescript.
PAUSE
+22 Something dark comes down that valley. Could
be a road. Probably.
And back.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
PAUSE
#29: Shining rectangles. Shining. Brightly. Straight
below me. Light reflecting off of something. Very
shiney.
PAUSE
Could be a metal roof. I can't . . . Its very,
very bright.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
#29, tell me what part of the world you're in.
PAUSE
#29: I'll have to guess.
PAUSE
Its an analytical guess, China.
PAUSE
I don't know what China feels like. I can't tell
you what the ground feels like. So, I am . . what
I'm looking at. . . but I don't know what it feels
like to tell you that. . or I don't know what it
looks like to tell you that it looks like either
Russia or China or someplace in Southeast Asia or
something like that. I just don't know.
#6.5: Um hm.
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#29: They're no labels on the ground that say, you know,
China, whatever.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
#29: But I think of China as being flatter than Russia
and this area is flat with low rolling hills.
River basin kind of an area.
PAUSE
+25 And all of that was pure analysis.
#6.5: Uh huh. Okay. Look we've been running almost
25 minutes now. Would you like to draw some of
these things now? I think we should do that.
PAUSE
#29: Can you read me?
#6.5: Sure. Yeah. First started talking about a large
spring like and. .
#29: Okay.
Nope.
PAUSE
PAUSE
Very large. But. . . tilted somehow. I don't
remember which way it was tilted. It was tilted
at an angle.
#6.5: You had that feeling of being tilted throughout
the session.
#29: I know. It bothered me.
PAUSE
Okay.
#6.5: Okay, you know, and then you described and you
never came back to it. I don't know how important
the concertina wire thing. ? ?
#29: Okay.
#6.5: Are they related?
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#29: This may have been an analytical thing, but if you
Ise have the top of a chainlink fence. .
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Like this. . . with the Y support like that. . .
and you have concertina stretched on top of it.
PAUSE
Then in perspective it sort of does the same sort
of the thing as I was seeing there as it goes into
and out of the corner.
#6.5: Um hm. Sure.
PAUSE
#29: That's what I was trying to .
PAUSE
Yeah.
#6.5: Okay, you then described the . . large dark horizontal
object about a mile away, maybe the lake.
#29: Yeah. This is hard to draw. If we say down here
is the target area, then off in the distance is
just. . .
PAUSE
And some how, and I don't understand how, the
darkness goes up in the air. . like a tail. And
that doesn't make any sense to me.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: At all. But, . . . like that. And its not regular,
its sort of irregular along the shoreline. And the
order of magnitude of this thing is I have
a bad sense of distance. But this distance is like
. . . And this distance from there to there, is
No, that's too big. No, its irregular.
(Not audible).
PAUSE
#6.5: Well, I really wouldn't worry about it, you know,
distance is a problem anyways and, you know, in
remote viewing.
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#29: I had the feeling that the shoreline or the edge
? ? ?
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Was kind of reedy. You know what I mean, reedy?
#6.5: Um um.
#29: Like marshy with reeds.
#6.5: Oh, okay, yeah.
#29: There's not a hard lake edge, but . and not a
defined thing.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Where you had a lot of soft, soft, wet.
Warm.
#.65: Okay.
#29: Yeah?
#6.5: I just wouldn't worry about the distance that much.
#29: Okay.
#6.5: Ah, you talked about the . . these towers, one un-
built tower. .
#29: Oh. Okay. That was right down below me.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: There were . . . sections of angles. . that were
in part prefabricated like this.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: And it looks like the same sort of stuff and
there was much of this stuff in various angles
and directions. It looks like the stuff that they
build power towers out of or radio towers or some-
thing like that. And (not audible).
PAUSE
Just a pile of parts.
#6.5: Um hm.
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#29: They haven't got around to building. Or they're
building whatever they're building.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
#29: I didn't see any people fooling with this stuff.
Its like a . . a . . yard full of . . pieces wait-
ing to be used.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: And metal parts.
Dull gray.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: Galvanized.
PAUSE
PAUSE
Had a very metallic feel to it. Sort of shimmery,
Ayr but not shiney bright. Like galvanized.
MOW
PAUSE
#6.5: Okay.
#29: I had something that came in and I presume that
this is a leftover, but I want to put it down anyway
just in case it is of some value.
PAUSE
This large shiney arch is what I take to be . . .
what might have been the shadow of it. I can't. .
I just got it a couple of times. It wouldn't go
away. I think its a leftover from. . . the . . .
remote viewing session that I did on the gateway
arch in St. Louis.
#6.5: Hmm.
#29: I think that's what it is, but I got it so I put
it down.
#6.5: Okay. Well, you know, it was about this time I
said let's go up and look over the whole general
area and describe that, you know, you talked about
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#29: Yeah.
#6.5: Medeval City.
#29: Yeah. Do them in order.
#6.5: What I'd like you to see if you could do is draw
a sketch of the area and put all these different
things in there. Never mind the . . you know,
the distance, but see if you . . .
#29: (Not audible.) I didn't mean to cut you off, Sir.
#6.5: That's all right.
#29: Oh.
#6.5: Ha ha ha.
PAUSE
#29: Okay. Distance. All right.
#6.5: We're gonna run out of tape here pretty soon.
#29: Okay. That's an administrative problem.
#6.5: Yeah, you can continue drawing if we run out of
tape. If you got anything more important to say,
say it. Ha ha
#29: You got another side on that tape don't you?
#6.5: No, got the other side of you on there.
#29: Okay, sock them real fast. There's a hill and a
hill and a arch. Passageway inbetween. There's
the large dark that comes in from this direction,
road maybe. Could also be a river but I think of
it in terms of the large dark road.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Looking in this direction. . . out . . . . there
No, its further out, about there. . . over in this
direction is where I got the sense out in this
direction.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Damn it! Water. About. . here were the two towers
and in this . . larger, larger tower.
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#6.5: Um hm.
#29: And then. . . you know there's a sort of a non-
descript hill over in this region. And then,
coming back and that's,when I picked up that large
dark road.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: And I got the feeling that the marsh. . . I
put the marsh in in that place and shut up.
PAUSE
In the back of the hills.
#6.5: Where was the city?
#29: Its right here.
#6.5: Okay, I just wanted to make sure you got that.
#29: Yeah.
#6.5: Okay.
Now a large dark object that. . . you don't want
to label up there. No, the other, up above it.
Right above it, yeah.
#29: Yeah. This?
#6.5: Yeah. Okay. Could you tell where that went?
#29: It just comes down this valley.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: And goes through it.
#6.5: Okay. It does not connect up with the city?
PAUSE
#29: Right now I don't know. I'm trying to find an
answer.
#6.5: I understand.
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Now #29: My perception is that it doesn't. But that
doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
NNW
#6.5: Well, don't worry about that.
#29: My perception is that it does not. I've tried
to bend it down and it won't go down. I have a
sense of . . Okay, being. . this is me. I have
the sense of being up in this area. Up. . Up.
above this point here.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: And looking at this thing as it comes in.
#6.5: Yeah.
#29: Now, in order to come in in this direction, and
then wind up down there it would have to swing
around or bend. .
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: . and it doesn't, it goes straight through. And
these aren't big enough.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
That's fine. You know, you don't have to try to
make it bend. Could you tell which direction you
were facing or which is North on that?
PAUSE
#29: Analytical guess.
#6.5: I don't want you to guess.
#29: Well, its going to be a guess. I have the feeling
that . . . I have a very strong up feeing in this
direction.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: When you said go up in the air and start swinging
around, I started at North and went around West.
So I feel that North is . . . somewheres. . between
those two quadrons. Somewheres in that general
direction.
#6.5: Okay.
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#29: It feels up.
#6.5: Okay. And the target area itself. . . that . .
is right there so the. . I'm just getting a feel
for the relationship . .and so the city would
have been to the Southwest of the target.
#29: Yes sir.
#6.5: Uh huh. And the two towels, towers would have
been sort of directly. . .
#29: South.
46.5: South. And . .
#29: Second tower further over to the South.
#6.5: Where were these two hills that looked like
knuckles?
#29: Almost due North.
#6.5: Okay, good.
#29: At least to the North.
#6.5: And the marsh was over to the Northeast, huh?
#29: Ahh. . .
#6.5: Or almost East.
#29: Yeah.
#6.5: Yeah. Okay. I think you can see what I'm trying
to get at here so we have a overlay of the whole
area. Okay, that looks good.
#29: Okay I'm going to try, whether I can or whether
can't I (not audible).
#6.5: You're gonna anyways. Ha ha ha
#29: It bothers me; those hills are peculiar. Looked
like looking at a pair of knuckles. Are we out
of tape yet?
#6.5: I don't think so. The analyst is listening on
the other side, he'll probably bring me a tape
in a short second anyways.
PAUSE
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#6.5: There should be a lot of scurrying right about
now. Ha ha ha
#29: But the door's locked there. But we'll know.
I had the feeling that there's sort of a twin hill.
All right, if you look at two knuckles like this
and then you have a finger projecting out from
them, see how you get the line of knuckles across
here and you've got the one projecting out towards
you. That's what I'm trying to draw.
#6.5: Okay.
PAUSE
Ha ha ha ha.
#66: At least we know (not audible).
#6.5: Ha ha ha ha ha Thank you #66. Geez.
Very good, huh. Well anyways, we're still on the
other tape.
NEXT TAPE
#29: This is Drawing Number 7. Which is looking at,
call it 9 o'clock from where I started out and its
of two hills but there. . . these dumb hills aren't
very big. But I had this nice beautifully curved
valley that comes straight on in and the thing that
was . . . you know, its just the most gentle
cylindrical valley coming down. One thing that
didn't get drawn or didn't get mentioned . . . and
I just realized it, was that. . . Well, all right,
we'll come back and do the radar screen. I don't
want to lose that, it was good. Good sharp image.,
Working my way around.
I got the neatest. . I'm not drawing it neat. The
neatest dome.
PAUSE
Round dome. And then, a whole bunch of the usual
big (not audible) roofs. . that you'd get in a
city scape.
#6.5: Um hm.
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#29: But the dome, order of magnitude, it was quite
large. I tried to make it into something else
but couldn't do it.
(Not audible)
(Not audible)
PAUSE
PAUSE
#6.5: Now its important for me to (not audible). Are
you at the target area now or are you . . .
#29: Drawing from my memory of the . . impression that
I got from the target area.
#6.5: Okay, 'cause you know, since we moved around quite
a bit, I want to make sure that we know that this
is in the general area of the target, okay?
#29: Whatever that means.
#6.5: Yeah.
#29: I don't think it was any bigger of an area than
this.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: I may have that dome too large also.
The thing that it made me think of is Vermontez
Dome on the cathedral in Florence.
PAUSE
The way that dome dominates the horizon.
PAUSE
#29: (Not audible).
#6.5: I had saved that because I have an asterisk beside
it. When you talked about it, you said it reminded
you of the perspective phenomena that you have, okay?
#29: Um hm. Okay. First, I'd like to try and recapture
that.
PAUSE
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#29: 'Cause its not a standard, what I regard as a
standard radar screen construction.
I got these shapes like this.
PAUSE
I'm not sure of the number. . . Now, I'm not sure
of the number of vertical ribs.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Okay. Need to discuss with you later, about the
drawings. Okay?
#6.5: Sure.
PAUSE
This is one of those things that it would have been
better if you had done it at the time.
#29: Unfortunately. Because I can't remember how many
vertical ribs it has now.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: Now, when you draw perspectives of something like
this . . . this is drawn as if its curving away
from you in that direction.
#6.5: Okay.
#29: But one of the problems with perspectives of a radar
screen that we always have as illustrators, is that
they have a tendency to snap from that direction to
this direction. And you see how it is now curving
towards you? No? What I .
#6.5: I don't get that yet.
#29: Okay, when I was looking at this thing. . . all right.
It . .
#6.5: Well, its like looking at a cube of some kind.
At the perspective (not audible) okay, dimensional.
#29: The point that I'm driving at. . and there is a
point, is when I was looking at this thing it snapped
on me. Now, it is possible that what happened was
that I had this perspective, you know, that I was
looking at. . .
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Where I'm looking at the back and then just got
this (not audible). That there are two of these
things. Because I got this second impression was
one that was facing in the other direction.
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: That's why I know there's perspective phenomena
rather than trying to get into the analytical thing
of. . . facing in two directions.
PAUSE
This one I'm sure of. This one I'm not. But the
order of magnitude is that its quite large.
At least 25 feet and this type (not audible).
Twenty, twenty feet.
#6.5: Hmm.
#29: Its some kind of a supported, large, supported
black structure (not audible).
And this is shiney and I had the feeling it was
gold color.
PAUSE
Okay.
Now, there was one other. ? ?
(Not audible)
May have been part of the same phenomena.
PAUSE
#6.5: Very good.
#29: Now when I looked at the two towers that I told
you about. ? ?
#6.5: Um hm.
#29: Things are really coming up screwy today.
(Not audible) What I got was that and . . . this.
Like that. Two separate distinct towers. But
what it . . . Its possible that what I was seeing
was two four square towers that are shaped like this.
You know, like . . . tower sub station, kind of
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transmission towers.
PAUSE
And I got the near support of this one and the
far support of that one.
(Not audible).
PAUSE
Then I got these two lattice support towers.
(Not audible) Tall. No idea (not audible).
And then. . . the third tower was larger than
the other two. (Not audible)
This again, may be left over from last week.
Cause I did go looking for it as I looking around.
#6.5: That's the match top type thing. Yeah.
Well. . . I wasn't trying to rush you, I just
don't want you to worry about trying to put a
label to everything. Let the analyst worry about
that and then come back with some more guidance
for us, okay? That's my only concern. Okay.
You've mentioned all of these things, okay.
#29: (Not audible)
. . . that I feel for getting everything down so
that I can get it out of my mind. (Not audible).
#6.5: Okay. All right.
Well. . Okay, you got anything else you want to
add #29?
Okay, we'll just cut this off.
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TAB
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NNW
'gage
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(0 0
*timie
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(00
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0
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( 12- D
i
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TAB
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MISSION ANALYST COMMENTS
Reference session reports #C60 and 4C68. TAB B of C68
contains analyst comments for all four sessions.
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