INTERVIEW WITH TURNER AND KLINE

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90-00965R000807540043-4
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 3
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 12, 2012
• Sequence Number: 43
• Publication Date: September 30, 1987
• Content Type: REPORT

Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/01/12 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000807540043-4
RADIO N REPORTS, INC.
4701 WILLARD AVENUE, CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND 20815 [phone]
PUBLIC AFFAIRS STAFF
Good Morning America
WJLA TV
ABC Network.
September 30, 1987 7:00 AM CITY Washington, DC
SUBJECT Interview with Turner and Kline
KATHLEEN SULLIVA: Bob Woodward's book about William
Casey and the CIA has brought denials from the White House and
from Casey's immediate family, and it has also touched off some
very spirited debates about journalistic methods and the nature
of intelligence itself.
Joining us now from Washington are two senior veterans
of the CIA. Stansfield Turner was Director of the CIA from 1977
to '81 under President Carter. Ray Kline was the Deputy Director
from 1962 to '66, and he was later the Director of Intelligence
and Research at the State Department from '69 to '73.
Gentlemen, good morning.
STANSFIELD TURNER: Good morning.
RAY KLINE: Good morning to you.
SULLIVAN: Stansfield, what's your reaction? Apparently
you've read about half of the book?
TURNER: Yes. Two reactions. One, is I think Bob
Woodward did the country a lot of harm in this book by disclosing
techniques of collecting intelligence and by hurting relations
between the United States and other countries through the
exposures of things we did to those countries.
On the other hand, I think he did some good in the
book. He tells us very clearly that an unprincipled director of
the CIA can get this country into activities that it doesn't want
to get into. And that's a frightening thing.
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Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/01/12 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000807540043-4
 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/01/12 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000807540043-4
SULLIVAN: Well, let me ask you a couple of the speci-
fics in which you were thwarted (?). Do you feel that our agents
abroad are in danger this morning because of the book?
TURNER: Well, I hope that Bob Woodward had enough sense
not to put specifics in the book where an agent's life would be
in danger. That is, perhaps the agent is no longer alive, even,
for other reasons. But, yes, there are stories in there that if
the agents were still around, they could be endangered.
But more than that, I think it's basically his disclos-
ing some of the over-all techniques of collecting information,
because that lets any country we might possibly spy on, put up
its guard.
SULLIVAN: Ray, were you surprised at the amount of
illegal covert operations that apparently went on under Bill
Casey's tenure?
KLINE: No. I wasn't surprised. But my theory is that
the CIA was set up to conduct clandestine and covert operations
abroad and that Bill Casey was doing exactly that under the
directions of the President. I wish he -- I wish he were -- had
been more successful.
SULLIVAN: Well, what was your reaction to Bob Wood-
ward's book?
KLINE: I thought it was disgusting. I feel that he did
reveal, as Stan Turner said, a number of sensitive operational
details that are going to do damage to the CIA's work abroad.
SULLIVAN: Ray, can you be specific about what opera-
tional details?
KLINE: Well, the allegations, which I cannot confirm,
about the operations in Morocco and in Saudi Arabia and other
countries which he generalizes about suggest that we work against
our friends abroad. This kind of allegation is heard often and,
if he gives credibility to it, we will have fewer friends, fewer
sources, fewer cooperative agents abroad, and it will hurt the
whole intelligence effort and the whole decision-making apparatus
here in Washington. That's what I resent about the book.
But more than that, it seems to me a perfect example of
the investigative reporting technique that's become so popular
these last ten years in which you interview a lot of people then
you decide you will cite anonymous sources who cannot be brought
to account, so you have a complete unaccountability of the
writer. I'm a historian and I disapprove of that as a matter of
scholarship.
Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/01/12 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000807540043-4
 Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/01/12 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000807540043-4
SULLIVAN: Well, you know, Stansfield, a lot has been
made about this death-bed interview. And do you think it is
possible that he could have penetrated CIA security around Bill
Casey at Georgetown?
TURNER: Yes, I think it's possible. I happen to have
talked to Bob Woodward about this several months ago. He claims
the morning he arrived there, there just was nobody on the
corridor of the hospital and he walked down, got to Casey's room,
Casey waved him to come on in.
I don't know for a fact that the CIA was guarding Mr.
Casey around-the-clock. I don't think that ordinarily would be
necessary under those circumstances. If they were, it certainly
was a bad show.
SULLIVAN: Stansfield, are you one of the anonymous
sources quoted in the book?
TURNER: Well, I've talked with Bob Woodward but I don't
think I gave him anything that he shouldn't know or that isn't
public information, that is.
SULLIVAN: Well, what is?
KLINE: That's famous last words. And, as you know...
TURNER: Well, everybody...
KLINE: ...everybody thinks that.
I'm happy to say I was never interviewed by Bob Wood-
ward, I suspect because he thought I wouldn't tell him anything
useful to his book.
SULLIVAN: Well, what do you feel about -- you know,
here the two of you are on different sides. One of you talks to
the press, one doesn't. I mean, there are two completely
different methods of operation, intelligence versus covert
activities. Well, what do you think the direction of the CIA
should be?
KLINE: I want to say, very simply, something that is
part of the history of the agency. Clandestine operations to
collect information abroad, which are absolutely essential to our
security, are part of the process of getting involved with
foreigners which sometimes, under presidential direction, leads
to a special political covert relationship, and that's perfectly
correct.
SULLIVAN: Well gentlemen, thank you for joining us this
morning. I have a feeling this debate is only beginning.
Declassified and Approved For Release 2012/01/12 : CIA-RDP90-00965R000807540043-4