THE RISE AND DECLINE OF THE CIA

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90-00965R000605390004-8
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 7
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: May 2, 2012
• Sequence Number: 4
• Publication Date: June 16, 1986
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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RADIO N REPORTS, 1~
4701 WILLARD AVENUE, CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND 20815 (301) 656-4d
PUBLIC AFFAIRS STAFF
June 16, 1986 12:00 Noon
"The Rise and Decline of the CIA"
STATION WTTG-TV
Washington, D.C.
ROSS CRYSTAL: A lot of spy cases concerning the CIA
lately, and it's been in the news more and more. But it seems
many people do not understand the workings of the Central
Intelligence Agency. So our next guest delved right into that
organization.
Here is John Ranelagh, author of "The Agency: The Rise
and Decline of the CIA, from Wild Bill Donovan to William Casey."
John also a producer a producer at Channel Four Televison in
England and author of two books on the history of Ireland.
This had to be a very difficult project for you.
Where'd you begin?
JOHN RANELAGH: Well, I began in London.and got into
things and ended over here, as you see me. So I'm here today in
Washington, having come to the end of a four-year trek, in fact,
through the intricacies of the CIA.
CRYSTAL: We were just talking a moment ago about the
problems of doing an unauthorized biography. But you try to do
something.on the CIA. What do they say to you?
RANELAGH: Well, I didn't actually ever approach the CIA
directly. I spoke to people who had dealings with the agency and
who had been in the -- I mean ex-officials of the CIA.
I had a very pleasant evening with Bill Casey, but that
was as close as I came to having a direct contact, really.
CRYSTAL: Why did you do this?
OFFICES IN: WASHINGTON D.C. ? NEW YORK ? LOS ANGELES ? CHICAGO ? DETROIT S AND OTHER PRINCIPAL CITIES
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RANELAGH: Well, the most extraordinary thing was that
nobody had put together a book on the agency as a whole. There
are lots of memoirs, biographies, autobiographies, books on the
Bay of Pigs or the U-2, a particular instance. But nobody had
put the agency into its context in the history of America's rise
to globalism and in the context of U.S. foreign policy-making,
and in particular the analysis. Everybody concentrates on the
James Bondery -- exploding toothpaste tubes, exploding cigars,
what have you -- where in fact the most important thing about the
CIA is its thinking, is its analytical capability.
CRYSTAL: It began back in the late '40s?
RANELAGH: Yes, 1947. It was the successor of the OSS,
which was. the wartime intelligence service of the United States.
But the CIA was the first peacetime intelligence service. And
there were enormous debates and fights and struggles about it
starting because many Americans, and I think many Americans to
the present day, did not think, and do not think, that the United
States should have a spy service or an intelligence service.
CRYSTAL: How much of that intriguing side is true?
RENELAGH: A great deal of it is true. The point is
that in context, it's about that much. It takes all the
publicity.
CRYSTAL: As opposed...
RANELAGH:. It takes, you know, 90 percent of the
publicity, but in fact it's only that much of the activity.
CRYSTAL: So, then, how come we have grown so in awe of
the C -- you drive down the G.W. Parkway and you -- the McLean
Headquarters of the CIA. Any visitor to this town says, "The
CIA!"
RANELAGH: Absolutely.
CRYSTAL: "Don't even go near that building."
It's not that way, is it?
RANELAGH: It isn't that way at all. No. I mean you
can go near that building. They used to have guided tours of it,
but Casey stopped that. You can fly over. I mean...
CRYSTAL: You see. You see. They stopped that.
RANELAGH: Well, I think he stopped it probably because
they were building a new extension and there was a lot of
activity going on, and they didn't want people running around.
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CRYSTAL: There was an intelligence slump that we fell
into. When did that occur, and what happened?
RANELAGH: Well, that really occurred during the 1970s,
when there was a very decided move towards technological
intelligence and away from human intelligence. It was thought
that satellites and planes and the technology of intelligence
should replace human agents. The argument being that it's much
safer to have a satellite telling us what Gorbachev is saying in
the Kremlin.than to risk the life of the spy inside the walls.
The problem was, though, that the satellites could never
tell you the tone of voice that Gorbachev was speaking in, or
whomever it might be. So if Gorbachev was saying, "Well, we've
got to rub out Ronald Reagan," and the satellites might pick that
up; it comes down in cold black and white. You- can't tell from
that if he was making a joke or if he was serious.
That's the difference.
CRYSTAL: Where do we stand today with the CIA? How
effective are they now?
RANELAGH: They're very effective. I mean it is
CRYSTAL: In what way?
RANELAGH: Well, in defending United States national
security interests; and, indeed, in propelling American foreign
policy interests.
One of the testaments to its success is the fact that,
under Casey, the budget of the agency has increased well above
inflation, about 10 percent, on average, above inflation,
year-on-year. Which tells us that although we don't know
everything it's doing, by any means, it is certainly doing
something right because the President of the United-States is
quite happy, in an anti-inflation Administration, in a
budget-cutting Administration, is very happy to increase the
budget of this agency.
.Director?
RANELAGH: The CIA is only as effective as the President
of the United States. It is a presidential arm, ultimately,
rather than a congressional one. It's a presidential arm.
CRYSTAL: How does the. Director affect its workings? Is
he a figurehead?
CRYSTAL: Is the CIA only as effective as its current
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RANELAGH: No. Bill Casey certainly isn't a figurehead.
Bill Casey has done a remarkable amount of work in improving
morale. But the importance of the Director lies in his
relationship with the President. If the Director is close to the
President, then the agency is, by inference, closer to the
President than the State Department, shall we say.
CRYSTAL: Let me try something here for a second with
just a few Directors. Just your instant reaction when I run some
of these people down.
James Schlesinger.
RANELAGH: The first political director. He was brought
in as Nixon's man to kick ass in the agency.
CRYSTAL: Okay., Bill Colby.
RANELAGH: A very misunderstood Director, and a vey
great one. He is the man who probably saved the agency.
CRYSTAL: George Bush.
States,
RANELAGH: Potenti,ally the next President of the United
CRYSTAL: And which means what to the Central
Intelligence Agency?
RANELAGH: Which -- I think it means nothing. I mean in
the same way that when Dwight Eisenhower became President, it
didn't mean anything to the Army. And in fact, Dwight Eisenhower
made that famous farewell speech warning against the Military-
Industrial Complex.
But George Bush was a very good Director. He was the
right man at the right time, and he did a marvelous job.
CRYSTAL: Admiral Stansfield Turner.,
RANELAGH: An admiral who had a limited concept of
intelligence and, like Jimmy Carter, confused American idealism
with American interests.
CRYSTAL: Now, here is a man, Turner, that shows up on a
lot of broadcasts explaining things. How nervous does the CIA
get when you've got somebody who knows the inner workings of the
organization and is now on the air all over the country, all over
the world?
RANELAGH: Well, I think Stan Turner is without doubt a
patriot. And there may be great disagreement with his views on
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intelligence in the agency, but he's not somebody who's going to
give away secrets. So they don't worry about that.
CRYSTAL: Yeah.
RANELAGH: You know, a lot of it's hype.
CRYSTAL: In this freedom-of-information society we live
in, what kinds of problems does the CIA run into?
RANELAGH: Well, this is, of course, what Bill Casey is
talking about a great deal now. In the wake of the Pelton case,
he's worried about newspapers reporting information revealed in
the trial. He's worried about leaks from committees in the
Congress.
We do have a very great problem about secrecy in our
democracy. But I think the fact of the matter is that Americans
generally accept that there is a very important and needed place
for secrecy and that the question is simply in trying to find how
far it goes. And that's what we're looking at at the moment.
That's what we're witnessing today.
CRYSTAL: Did you ever get a call, a.letter, some type
of communication: we don't want something in this book?
RANELAGH: No, I didn't. I did come across information
which I decided I did not think it was appropriate to put in. I
came across detailed specifications of satellite and tracking
devices and spying devices and some documentation which I really
shouldn't have been given. It was a leak. I received various
leaks. And this one leak was not, I think, in the interests of
the United States or, indeed, of the West as a whole. And so I
simply didn't use it.
But I never had an instruction, or even a formal
request, not to..
CRYSTAL: Hindsight, if you had, if there was something
that you thought was pertinent -- gosh, this has been in the news
lately, where, you know, a network says, "Hey, we think it's
pertinent. We're going with it." Would you go with that? Where
does your mind take you on that?
`RANELAGH: Well, I think that, you know, the job of a
journalist, or any investigator, 'is to pursue the story, however
far it goes. The job of the legislators is to determine how far
that person should be allowed to go. But it isn't -- I mean
there is a formality about it.
But the real point is that the specifics in each case
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pale against the big picture. And the big picture of the agency
is that it really is intricately involved in the foreign policy
of the United States.
CRYSTAL: The comparable organization of the CIA in
England is?
RANELAGH: It is the British Secret Intelligence
Service, which is two arms: M-15, which is domestic and compares
to the FBI; and M-16, which compares to the CIA and operates
overseas.
CRYSTAL: But this is the most effective, would you say?
RANELAGH: This is the most effective. It's the
biggest, 18 thousand -- billion-dollar budget, approxiately. I
mean you don't tangle with the CIA.
CRYSTAL: The next time you drive down the G-W Parkway,
remember that. Don't tangle with the CIA.
The book is called "The Agency: The Rise and Decline of
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