KGB

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP90-00965R000201310003-5
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 15
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: February 10, 2012
• Sequence Number: 3
• Publication Date: June 28, 1985
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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RADIO TV REPORTS, IN~
4701 WILLARD AVENUE, CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND 20815 (301) 656-406
PROGRAM The Joel Spivak Show
DATE June 28, 1985 4:17 P.M. CITY San Francisco
JOEL SPIVAK: And now let me introduce you to Dr.
William R. Corson (?), who -- well, Dr. Corson is an ex-Marine.
He's been involved with intelligence matters for -- between he
and his colleague Robert Crowley, they have probably about 70
years experience in the intelligence business. And they wrote a
book, which is published by Morrow, called The New KGB: Engine
of Soviet Power. It's a very scholarly book, but it is full of
information.
I was sitting in my office today reading this book, and
right away the first thing that jumped out at me, Dr. Corson, was
the shooting of the Pope and what, if anything, the KGB had to do
with it.
First of all, do you believe that the KGB had something
to do with it?
WILLIAM CORSON: Oh, indeed. Yes, Joel. The facts are
pretty clear. What we did in the book was to insure to use a
parallel. And, you know, we're not going to come up with this
is the new piece of proof and there's this trial underway which
is part of a legal rain dance in Italian jurisprudence -- is the
fact that we think of His Holiness as a leader. And he is.
Twenty-two percent of the American public are Catholics. But
that's not the perception within the framework of the KGB. He's
a charismatic leader of Poland. And the history of relationships
between Poland and Russia, that go back 300 years, is that
periodically the Poles get angry and kick the living bejesus out
of the Russians. And they know that.
And we talked about Sikorski, the murder of General
Sikorski by the Soviet secret police, with the connivance of
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Philby. Now, Sikorski was the intellectual superior, as well as
moral and so forth superior, of Charles de Gaulle. He was also
-- he, Sikorski, was the President of the Republic of Poland, was
in England at the time. And Stalin had to kill Sikorski because
the notion of Sikorski coming in to Warsaw at the end of the war
with the victorious Polish Free Army led by General Anders, they
couldn't tolerate it. No more could they tolerate the fact of
His Holiness taking off his collar and returning to become a
leader in Poland, or Walesa. So you kill him.
And you say, "Well, he's the head of the Catholic
Church." The Bolsheviks don't accept that as being relevant.
The criteria is a potential charismatic leader that can cause
problems. That's why.
SPIVAK: Well, you know, I happen to agree with you. I
mean just -- I do. I really think that they're behind it. But
I'm not in the intelligence business. And yet I do not hear, I
do not hear a big outcry either in this country or any place
else, not even in Italy, about the possibility that Chernenko and
Andropov and all of those people could have ordered the murder of
the head of the Roman Catholic Church and gotten away with it.
Thank God he wasn't murdered. He was shot and he's okay. But I
mean the thought of it is so mind-boggling that I guess people
just can't even comprehend it.
CORSON: Well, because of their feelings towards His
Holiness. But I'm saying to you that that's not the relevant
consideration.
And Andropov, before he became Chairman, had the
responsibility, before he became Chairman, of establishing the
multinational nature of the KGB. And he took the various
surrogates -- or not surrogates, but the Warsaw Pact states and
the others, to include the Bulgarians, the Czechs, the Poles, the
Hungarians; and the best analogy, or the best analogy I can give
you, is that the KGB is a multinational organization. It is not
a combination FBI and CIA. That's a Soviet disinformation ploy.
It's a multinational organization with functional distribution
assigned.
Wet operations [foreign expression] are assigned to the
Bulgarians. Bulgarians like to kill people, and they're pretty
good at it. And so you give that assignment to Bulgarians.
The Czechs deal with high tech. The Poles deal with
high tech in industrial processes. And the East Germans deal
with high tech in the field of electronics.
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It's all very well organized. It's the IT&T, if you
will, of this operation.
SPIVAK: Are they that'good?
CORSON: They are that good. They are that good, Joel.
SPIVAK: Well, then explain to me why this guy Agca, the
Turk who the Italians arrested for shooting the Pope, is doing
this insane number in the courtroom. That looks to me like a
put-up job.
CORSON: Well, what it is, if you've ever observed a
criminal trial in Italy, this is part of a rain dance of plea
bargaining. And what Agca is saying, "Look, I am the
prosecution's star witness. Without me, you get nothing."
Now, what does Agca want? He knows he isn't going to
get a pardon, and he's not going to get executive clemency. "But
I do want my own little cell, TV, writing paper, maybe a conjugal
visit or something thrown in from time to time. And above all, I
want protection. Now, unless you proisise that, I'm going to get
up there make some of these statements."
I've sat in Italian courtrooms on some of the so-called
espionage cases in Naples, as in Turin, and you're saying, "Wait
a minute. This guy can't remember his name," literally. And
that's what this is all about. And it's part of, "All right.
Let's break and we'll talk it over. Do you want a queen-sized or
a king-sized bed." I mean that's what they're diddling around
with.
SPIVAK: All right. But there's no doubt in your mind
that they KGB ordered the shooting of the Pope.
CORSON: None whatsoever. I mean the aspect -- not
proof by analogy, but the Sikorski case. And you say, "How
important was Sikorski?"
SPIVAK: Look, Sikorski was a long time ago. This is
now. And just by making that utterance, I say to you that you
and Claire Sterling and Marvin Kalb and a lot of others who went
out on a limb on this one before there were any charges brought
against the Russians were immediately labeled as wackos.
CORSON: That's right.
SPIVAK: For even intimating that the Russians might
have had anything to do with that.
CORSON: I am hopeful. There's been a defection within
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the last week in Athens of a KGB guy, and his name has still not
been released. If this case isn't badly handled, we may have our
assertive witness from within the organs to say, "Yes, it was
done, because I was back there at headquarters when this decision
was made."
SPIVAK: Really?
CORSON: Yeah. We think so. We think so.
SPIVAK: Boy, that would be a bombshell, wouldn't it?
CORSON: It would be. And, you know, I think it will
still much of this view.
But I recall when Claire Sterling was going off on this.
And you see, Claire hitherto had been considered to be something
of a left -- not a left-winger, but she was liberal. And what
was happening, with her critical faculties, she could not ignore
the evidence that she was collecting. And she did, I think, a
first-class job in laying it out.
SPIVAK: This book I got sitting right here has all
kinds of wondrous tales to tell about the KGB, not the least of
which is a little anecdote here about Dr. Edward Teller, who is
right across the bay here in Berkeley. Dr. Teller has been
depicted over the years as being a rather right-wing fellow. And
Dr. Teller is one of the inventors of the H-bomb and has been
very outspoken in his opposition to the Soviets, and things like
that. And you made a rather startling assertion in this book
about Dr. Teller. I got the impression that you and Mr. Crowley
think that the reason Dr. Teller's been depicted that way is
because he is anti-Soviet.
CORSON: That's right. It works. I mean you label him
as being a little bit extreme -- see, not too long ago, Joel, I
spoke to a high school class up in Gaithersburg, a senior high
school group. A youngster asked me, said, "Colonel, should we be
afraid of the KGB?"
And I said, "No. We should be informed." Because if
you're informed of what they're doing, how they're doing it, why
they're doing it, then you can support coherent methods to
contain this.
Apropos of things in this area, not too long ago I did a
television program for CNN and there was a man in the Soviet
Embassy by the name of Vladimir Bersitzyn (?).
SPIVAK: The Soviet Embasssy in Washington.
CORSON: Yes, in Washington -- who heard about this book
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and had to get ahold of a copy of the galleys, and was very --
you know, "We've got to have it," and, you know, "these
anti-Soviet tirades," etcetera, etcetera.
So we did a 180 on Vladimir and we found that he had
spent the preceding four years here at Berkeley studying nuclear
science and advanced electronic theory. He is now the third man
in the Public Information Office in the Soviet Union.
Well, we put him on camera, hidden camera, body mike.
And he's had a little bit of difficulty in explaining to Androsov
-- I have a picture in there of Androsov. And Stanislav can't
figure how I got that picture of him. We've fuzzed it up. He's
the resident.
But Vladimir, after four years studying at that level,
one of the better schools in the United States, has come back
there. And his job, I believe -- and I'm getting a few converts
in the Bureau who say, "Well, you may be right, Willie" -- is
there to coordinate the scientific and technical intellgience
collection on SDI research.
Because, as you may know, probably more than half...
CORSON: ...Star Wars, or the Strategic Defense
Initiative, research will take place within the Beltway. And you
got to have somebody there that knows the difference between a
kilocycle and a megacycle and a pedacycle.
SPIVAK: See, I have a feeling that people who are
listening to this are thinking to themselves, "Oh, come on. So
what?"
You know, in this country, it's still true, the CIA is
probably people think -- you know, hate the CIA more than they do
the KGB. And you know, it was a great revelation to me when I
went to Washington and got to know a few people in the
intelligence community and came to find out that the KGB operates
in Washington, the capital of the Free World, with such impunity
that they openly attend congressional hearings, they go get
documents anytime they want from our government. They are even
waved at by members of Congress and members of the Senate in the
hearing rooms.
I mean it's hard for me to imagine that our intelligence
people in the Soviet Union, or anywhere else in the world, are
treated that way.
CORSON: One thing we did, what we did in this film, and
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I said, you know, it's time to attempt to let people know what's
going on.
You know where 1500 Massachusetts Avenue is, and that's
Thomas Circle. There's an apartment building that's located
there, and the Canadian Embassy is on...
[Technical difficulties]
CORSON: ...assigned to the embassy, which was right
around the corner and down the street. There are nine Russians
living in 1500.
Now, what is their job? What do they do? Master Bowes,
tell me what they do.
SPIVAK: What do they do?
CORSON: They are the night crawlers. They come out
after dark -- and they're very good tenants. They pay their
bills on time and they're very quiet and they pay in cash. And
they come out at night every night and they cruise the gay bars
and the singles bars in Washington looking for young people who
are vulnerable, might have a drug problem, might have a problem
that they like cats and dogs rather than boys and girls. "But
whatever you want, we'll get it for you."
SPIVAK: Well, you know what amazes me? Here you are
telling me that this is a well-known fact in Washington, that the
KGB is doing this right in the capital of the Free World. Why
don't we throw them out? Why don't we just tell those guys to
get lost?
CORSON: Well, I use this metaphor. In 1972, I'm
convinced that Mr. Nixon and Dr. Kissinger saw Yul Brynner in
"The King and I" once too many times. And they believed that
getting to know you and getting to know all about you, and they
promoted detente.
You have right now in this Bay Area 750 Soviet espionage
officers, right now. Since '72 the number of Soviet legal
espionage people have increased by two factors of magnitude. In
real terms, the number of FBI agents committed to
counterintelligence have declined.
SPIVAK: Yeah. All right. Stop right there.
We'll get right back to this with Dr. William Corson
here in just a few moments.
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SPIVAK: Our guest is Dr. William R. Corson, or Colonel
Corson, whichever he prefers. He and his partner Robert Crowley
have written a very scholarly book about the KGB.
Now, he just started to tell me something about the
numbers of KGB operatives here in San Francisco. And the number
-- what figure did you have there?
CORSON: It's better than 700; 7, 750, in that general
SPIVAK: How do you know?
CORSON: We track those kind of things, and our friends
in the Bureau that we try to help provide us with confirmation.
Although this might sound really way off the boards, Joel, it
isn't. A reasonably conservative estimate of the Soviets that
are -- and these are ones that we're pretty sure of --
nationwide, is 14,000.
CORSON: Well, just as you know in the CIA you have
somebody's a contract guy, I'm talking about the multinationals,
the Poles and the Bulgarians and the Hungarians, and so forth.
And you find just this recent case down in Los Angeles, the
Ogarodnikovs. Well, who do they belong to? Well, actually they
belong to the KGB.
Well, let's assume that there are 700 KGB operatives in
this area, including people working out of the consulate here on
Green Street and everybody else. Most of their attention,
obviously, is going to be directed at the Silicon Valley, isn't
it?
CORSON: That's precisely what they're after. And they
want to get vulnerable engineers or people that are having
trouble meeting their payroll. And how do they find this out?
Well, one mechanic, one method that they used before -- and I'm
sure that they have an alternative -- was with the Walker case.
Walker had a man inside the police department in Norfolk, which
enabled him to plug into the FBI's rap, get all the police
department information, plug into the credit card system, so you
know whether a guy's got the full disaster, he's overdrawn at the
bank, whether he's got a sweetie on the side. These things are
there.
SPIVAK: Whether he's doing drugs, stuff like that?
CORSON: Whatever. Whatever you've got, they can get it
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for you.
SPIVAK: So what do they do? They send these guys down
to Silicon Valley, down around Sunnyvale and stuff, and they hang
out in bars and stuff like that?
CORSON: Yeah. They'll go and they'll listen to
somebody. And they'll have a trade representation. Maybe I'm
with the POLAMC0, the Polish-American Company, and I'll look at
your factory. And it goes on.
Well, we'd love to have you back in Washington, but I
can understand your moving to this area. But there are 20 Soviet
trade representatives in Washington. And you say, "Twenty trade
representatives? What are they buying?" Because all the
Russians buy from us is $50 million worth of Scotch tape.
Everything else is government-to-government. There isn't any
trade.
These 20 guys work -- and I'm not sure where they live.
I am -- but they work at 2001 Connecticut Avenue. That's the old
Lathrop mansion. You've driven by it many times, one of the most
beautiful buildings in Washington, right above the Hilton Hotel,
where the President was shot by Hinckley, or shot at by Hinckley.
There are 20 of them that are in there. And what do they do to
earn their bread and cheese? They listen to Bill Corson's
telephone calls. This is where they intercept and monitor the
long-distance phone calls. And they've got line of sight right
down to the White House, and they get 456, the White House
exchange, and then the Old Executive Office Building, 395, and
they pick all this stuff up.
Now, here it comes -- I'll give you the mechanics of it.
And then at 4:32 in the afternoon Eastern Standard Time, the
Soviet spy satellite goes over Washington. And they press the
button and it goes putt, and it goes up to the spy satellite.
The spy satellite goes over Moscow. They press the other button,
it goes putt, down to the center, Lyubianka or the out center.
All right. Now we've got all this is on tape. Now we
got to figure out which of all these thousands and millions of
long-distance phone calls we want to listen to. So we have a CAT
scanner, very similar to the one in your Cadillac or your
Mercedes, where you press it and it searches out till it finds
the radio station. This particular scanner device is programmed
to listen to a conversation that comes up and I say, "Pentagon,
CIA, KC, Dumbo, Doder," or, "Standstill burner," and, bingo, it
stops on that word. And then, okay, that particular...
CORSON: Yeah. Now, where did they get the equipment?
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SPIVAK: From the Silicon Valley?
CORSON: They got it from Johnny Walker Red Label, who
made sure that the appropriate guys got it to him.
See, this is our technology.
SPIVAK: Johnny Walker Red Label, meaning they went out
and got somebody drunk and...
CORSON: No. That's my shorthand -- I'm sorry. I
didn't mean to speak jargon. I thought you were still back in
Washington. This is John Walker, who is currently charged
with...
SPIVAK: Oh, that John Walker. Oh, yeah, sure. This is
the guy who was -- okay. When you say Johnny Walker Red Label...
CORSON: How can you keep all these guys -- yeah, I have
trouble keeping all these guys straight.
SPIVAK: The spy. Yeah.
Well, no, but come back here. Because I'm absolutely
fascinated that our intelligence community, the FBI, the CIA,
everybody knows that over here on Green Street they've got all
these guys working the Silicon Valley and all the big think tanks
around here, and it just goes on.
CORSON: Well, I'd say this to you. The number of
full-time FBI agents that are committed to trying to look at this
horde -- don't say it on the air -- that's all.
SPIVAK: Wait a minute.
CORSON: But you know, those who go...
SPIVAK: Are you kidding me?
CORSON: I might tease you, but I wouldn't kid you. You
saved my life in Washington by keeping me from driving my car
into a ditch. No.
SPIVAK: Are you kidding me? I am not going to -- you
know, you asked me not to say how many agents, so I won't. You
know that to be true?
CORSON: Yeah. That's the size of this field office, of
the people in this field office that are committed to that
exercise.
people?
SPIVAK: You're talking about counterintelligence
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CORSON: Yeah.
Joel, remember the movie "Graduate"?
SPIVAK: Yeah.
CORSON: There's a big line -- it's one word. You know,
it'll live forever. Dustin Hoffman comes to a guy, says to
him...
SPIVAK: "Plastics."
CORSON: "Plastics."
SPIVAK: Yeah.
CORSON: And the FBI, you come out and you're a
hard-charging guy, you come out of the academy. You know, the
first word is "organized crime." That's where the promotions are
and that's where the rewards are, and you better go there.
Okay. If you can make it, you get in there, because,
you know, the competition's pretty severe.
The second category is drugs. Boy, Mr. Hoover was wise
enough to keep people from going off there because it takes so
many people. It's labor-extensive. And the temptations. It's
not five grand from a crooked bank examiner, it's 50 million.
SPIVAK: Well, where on the priority list is the KGB?
CORSON: Now -- now let's come down the line. The next
priority is go into counterterrorism, because no one can define
it. It's like detente: I'll know it when I see it. And so, as
you know, today there's a cottage industry, and let's get a grant
and study counterterrorism.
The fourth priority is counterintelligence. Now, why
would anybody ask to go into counterintelligence?
Sometimes -- and there are cases that Bob and I had
worked at. Not to go into a specific case -- sometimes these
cases take eight years. And your supervisor is saying,
"Crowley," or Corson, "when the hell are you going to bring these
guys in?"
"Well, we've got to get the goods. You know, we just
don't want to arrest him and have him walk out the door."
SPIVAK: So, in the meantime, they're stealing us blind.
CORSON: That's right. And the commitment of the
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people -- and as I say, the absolute numbers, it overwhelms.
I had an individual that I -- I suggested to this
individual, who works on classified material and had a hand put
on his knee by the Soviets. This individual had won a two-week
all-paid vacation trip to come to the Soviet Union because he was
a subscriber to Soviet Life. And he went in and reported this
fact. And the Bureau -- this is not putting the Bureau down.
The Bureau said, "Wait a minute. No crime has taken place.
There's nothing overt that's involved. And we've got a lot of
other things on our mind."
Here's a sensitive American. Maybe you can make him
into an agent for you. Maybe he can go and do something for
you. But the guys are overwhelmed.
We fingered this guy Bersitzyn, who's now coordinating
this other thing, was here for four years at Berkeley. Who else
did he recruit while he was here? And then we fingered in this
-- when we were making this film, just by accident, two Soviets
with the SX license plate. They got out and they dropped a piece
of paper out their pocket, they were in a hurry. And it was a
personnel action report for the Secret Service. It was not a
classified document that you could nail them on the espionage
statute, but it had names on it that identified people who you'd
never find out if you walked in -- walked in the Secret Service
headquarters in Los Angeles.
SPIVAK: All right. Stop right there.
Well, Dr. Corson obviously feels rather strongly about
this. This book, incidentally, is called The New KGB, by
William Corson and Robert Crowley, and it's published by Morrow.
And we'll continue in a moment.
SPIVAK: We're visiting here with Dr. William R. Corson,
who along with his colleague Robert Crowley wrote, I think, a
very scholarly book about the KGB called The New KGB: Engine of
Soviet Power.
I was a little surprised at the title. I mean why "the
New KGB"? Is it so much different from the old KGB?
CORSON: Yeah.
SPIVAK: It is?
CORSON: What we had to do, the history is the connec-
tive tissue, Joel. And you might say that this is taking the DNA
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chain, and how did it come to the form that it's in? If you
don't understand what happened yesterday, you don't really
understand today's news.
SPIVAK: Well, you take it from the beginning.
CORSON: You have to, because the principles and the
concepts evolve.
As I mentioned about Andropov running the multinational,
getting that. Then when he became Chairman, he realized -- he
was 67 -- he realized that the party was so corrupt -- and they
were corrupt to the point -- and corruption is endemic in Russian
society. But they were unlike -- no analogies intended,
pejorative -- Mayor Daley in Chicago, where I grew up, the city
that works. It's all right to be corrupt, but you've got to make
the trains run on time. And they weren't doing it. The party
wasn't doing that.
So what he did, Andropov was an ascetic and an idealist,
believing in the Dzershinsky principles. So he began to select
people, and he selected Mikhail Gorbachev: You are going to take
over as the General Secretary. And Viktor Chebrikov, and he will
become the head of the KGB. And Viktor had been -- he had been
Andropov's deputy in Hungary when they pulled off one of the
greatest intelligence coups of all time, infiltrating into the
United States hundreds and hundreds of agents. And then Vitaly
Fedorchuk, who becomes the head of the NVD. And Andropov
accomplished in seven months what took Stalin seven years to do.
And Lagachov (?). And these are the new eagles.
SPIVAK: These are names that, frankly -- I know
Andropov and I know Chernenko and I know the current man,
Gorbachev. But -- you know, these other names.
CORSON: They're there. We describe them and what
they've done.
CORSON: Now, what was done, Andropov knew that he was
ill, and they realized that they needed time to take care of one
very important function, and that was to clean up their overseas
act, their missions overseas, because the corruption was not
producing the results. So -- and they couldn't throw Anatoly
Dobrynin out overnight. They had to move with care.
So they put Chernenko on the throne and they said,
"Konstantine, you stand there and you can smoke your cigarettes.
But shut up. And here is what we're going to say in order to
keep you shut-up."
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Published in Pravda, this full-page bill of particulars
of the graft in Moldavia. And all you had to do was plug
Konstaine in there and you go to jail. You go right to the Gulag
and don't pass Go.
All right. During that period of time they started to
replace the worst of the worst among their foreign service group.
SPIVAK: I think what I hear you telling me is that the
KGB is running the Soviet government.
CORSON: They are the Soviet government. There was no
way that these men could be advanced to the full Politburo
status. It just happened.
Now, to give you a -- to make it precise, the Ambassador
to Greece, the Soviet Ambassador to Greece was replaced by Igor
Andropov, Yuri's son. And then they brought in first team, and
they have a definite mission. Greece is part of the Soviet
design. Greece is going to be out of NATO, probably within two
years. And they are moving there, and it's designed, and
whatever causes trouble and what facilitates making sure that
Papandreou stays with that particular commitment.
One should realize, if you've flown out of the Athens
airport...
SPIVAK: I don't want to fly out of the Athens airport,
not after what happened.
CORSON: The U.S. Air Force station is contiguous to the
Athens airport. And one of the things that you'll find, you'll
say, "Wait a minute. What is the KGB doing in Greece?" And
that's a very precise question.
SPIVAK: What are they doing?
CORSON: Well, they're suborning U.S. military presence.
And the story -- this occurred in March. There was a bar in
Athens that was frequented by the men who manned one of our most
sensitive listening posts, and it was a farewell party for a
young man who was going home to the States. Some of the most
highly qualified U.S. communications intelligence technicians.
And the KGB blew up the bar and killed 23 Americans. It was
barely a tag-line story in the U.S.
SPIVAK: Well, you're telling me something I didn't
know, because I don't even remember hearing about it.
CORSON: There was some footage, and let's go back to
the Rolaids ad.
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SPIVAK: That was it, huh?
SPIVAK: Well, if you want to learn about these people,
I suppose you can read this book. I'll tell you, it absolutely
fascinates me.
What really fascinates me, frankly, Dr. Corson, is how
little people in this country really care.
CORSON: I had a high school kid say to me, "Should I be
And I said, "No. Be informed."
And one of the reasons -- I don't do windows anymore.
This going on a book tour and traveling from here to there and
everywhere. I believe, Joel, seriously, that the American public
is two light-years ahead of every elected representative and
every appointed official on this issue. They're ready to support
a coherent policy. And their sense of betrayal and outrage
vis-a-vis the Walker case, they're not overreacting. They I re
saying, "Wait a minute. We better understand this. We better
not just think that this is Father Flanagan, you know, "There is
no such thing as a bad boy." We've got a serious problem.
I mentioned to you about 1500 Mass. One of the most
notorious gay bars in Washington is the Chesapeake bar. It's
across from the convention center. That's where Yeoman Madsen
was recruited by the Soviets. Yeoman Madsen would come out of
the Pentagon, he would have classified documents inside his
uniform, he would go to an apartment house, he would take off his
uniform and be properly serviced by whoever -- whatever was
required. The documents were photocopied. Satisfied, Madsen
returned to the Pentagon, put the originals back in the files.
And we went along, fat, dumb and happy, thinking that
these pieces of material were still secure and safe.
SPIVAK: Okay. On that note, let me just commend this
book to you. This is called The New KGB, written by William R.
Corson and Robert T. Crowley. And like I say, it's a very
scholarly work.
Well, thank you, Dr. Corson, for coming in here and
visiting with us. I don't know, I'm uncomfortable with the idea
of 700 of those guys operating around here. There's not much I
can do about it, though, is there?
CORSON: They might take you to lunch.
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SPIVAK: Wonderful.
CORSON: An agent of influence.
SPIVAK: I'll look forward to that.
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