MINUTES - TWO HUNDRED AND NINETIETH MEETING WEDNESDAY 15 JANUARY 1986, 1006-1155 HOURS ROOM 7D32, HEADQUARTERS BUILDING

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP89B00297R000400980008-8
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 9
• Document Creation Date: December 27, 2016
• Document Release Date: August 30, 2012
• Sequence Number: 8
• Publication Date: January 28, 1986
• Content Type: MISC

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S CRET/I
DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE
Security Committee
Minutes
Two Hundred and Ninetieth Meeting
Wednesday 15 January 1986, 1006-1155 Hours
Room 7D32, Headquarters Building
Chairman
Presiding
MEMBERS PRESENT
LTC George L. Alvarez, U.S. Marine Corps
Mr. Maynard C. Anderson, Office of the Secretary of Defense
Col. Anthony J. Gallo, Jr., Department of the Army
Mr. Vaughn Holcombe, Department of the Treasury
CAPT William C. Horn. Department of the Navy
Mr. Gary L. Stoops, Federal Bureau of Investigation
ALTERNATES PRESENT
Mr. Robert C. Allen, Department of the Navy
Mr. Stephen E. Bacher, Department of Energy
Mr. Thomas Blankenship, Department of Energy
Mr. Bernard Gattozzi, Department of Justice
Lt. Col. re eric Riccardi, Uffice ot the Secretary of the Air Force
Mr. Roger H. Robinson, Department of State*
Mr. Richard F. Williams, Office of the Secretary of Defense
ALSO PRESENT
Ms. Jamie M. Brigance, Department of the Air Force
Maj. Jack Brewer, Department of the Air Force
Mr. Michael N. Cassetta, Department of Commerce
Mr. Thomas W. Chace, Department of State
Mr. Frederick H. Bowen, SECOM Staff
Mr. Keith A. Mendenhall, SECOM Staff
Mr. Alan F. Petit, SECOM Staff
*Present for part of meeting.
SECOM-M-294
28 January 1986
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Briefing on the 4C System
The Chairman advised that he wanted to put this briefing on early. He
introduced Chief, Special Security Center, CIA, to give the
briefing requested by Messrs. Rubino and Anderson at the SECOM seminar. F1
began by providing statistics on the status of the system.
As of January 1986, there were 170 terminals linked to the 4C main frame
computer, compared to 122 in October 1984. The numbers of records (one record
per person) in the system are:
October 1984 January 1986
Active (current accesses) 175,632 213,108
Archival (debriefed persons) 20,513 44,470
5 _257-.5n
Monthly transactions with the system have grown substantially: 44,042 in
December 1983; 70,514 in March 1984; and 82,342 in December 1985. Data on how
many records departments and agencies have entered into the system are:
Army 11,709
Air Force 96-292
CIA
DIA
Defense Mapping Agency
Department of Justice
FBI
Department of Energy
Department of State
Treasury Department
Secret Service
Navy
PME-106
SAFSP
NSA
747
5,629
650
3,657
965
4,944
282
1,590
2,390
3,545
7,753
* (the CIA total includes non-NFIB agencies and CIA contractors)
said 655 different "accesses" are recorded in 4C. The bulk of
them are "B' studies. This total also includes cryptographic accesses, Q
clearances and internal agency "bigot" list projects.
advised that when NSA and DIA enter their accesses into
the system, 4C Phase I will be completed. He stated that we should plan to
move into Phase II soon in view of potential budget problems arising from
Gramm-Rudman cuts and possible communications links difficulties. He reported
that there will be no cost to users in Phase II for terminals, encryption
devices (KG-84) or lines. He noted that archival data will be kept
indefinitely for security audit purposes. In response to a question, Mr.
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said the system cannot yet provide printouts at terminals. Printouts
are now done at CIA headquarters and sent to requesters by courier. Mr.
Anderson asked when the planning meeting for Phase II would be held.
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said as soon as he can convene
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aske i there were any comments on the utility of the system. Maj. Brewer
said the timeliness of the system will remain a problem until it has a
capability to provide "batch" outputs on a real-time basis.
Preliminary Comments
The Chairman:
A. Invited introductions.
(1) Mr. Anderson introduced Mr. Williams, his deputy for
information security and special programs, as the new alternate member from
OSD.
(2)I taff officer on
SECOM matters to replace lavishly
complimented or a consistently high quality and cooperative
nature of her suppor ommunity security and SECOM.
B. Advised that he had appointed of NSA to chair
the Facility Protection Subcommittee. expressed pleasure
with the qualifications of the nominees from NSA and State for this position.
He noted that presided over a subcommittee meeting on 14
January, and that subcommittee members invited former Chairman to
join them for lunch afterwards and presentation of acertificate of
appreciation to for his services.
C. Informed members of his reminder to subcommittee chairmen of the
standi submit annual reports to him by 1 February of each
year. stressed the need for thorough reporting for use in
compiling a conso i a e summary of SECOM activity and plans for the year. He
noted that such a report will help satisfy the Air Force member's desire for a
compendium of SECOM activities.
D. Noted that several members expressed a desire for periodic status
listings of issues being addressed by SECOM. said the
monthly report he provides the DDCI on SECOM activities is not a suitable
vehicle for this. He advised that the staff is preparing a list of all
pending SECON actions, and will try to format this into the type of listing
E. Said our seminar discussions included comments on the need for more
and better supervisory report non security matters and for better security
awareness programs. reminded members that they had been
asked to provide him by 15 January any suggestions they had for improvement.
Mr. Anderson said DoD began a large effort in this field as a result of the
Stilwell report. The reorganization of the Defense Security Institute
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set of recommendations on this subject to SECOM.
share the results of its security awareness efforts.
supports this effort. CAPT Horn said there is a need for a central
coordinating point to bring together information on department and agency
security awareness programs. He suggested a full-time staff member of SECOM
to do this. said the staff can't be expanded because of
Congressional limitations on the size of the IC Staff. He suggested that a
Community agency desiring a SECOM effort in this area provide a qualified
person on a nonreimbursable detail. Col. Gallo advised that the chairman of
the Security Awareness and Education Subcommittee (SAES) had just delivered a
suggested review of Mr. Passarelli's recommendations, and aske to
schedule Mr. Passarelli for a presentation at the next SECOM meeting.
ACTION: The Executive Secretary will schedule the Chairman, SAES, for
a presentation on security awareness proposals for the
February 1986 SECOM meeting.
said that good security awareness rograms pay off only when
strongly supported by top management.
F. Noted that another seminar suggestion was that periodic videotapes
be prepared on TSCM finds for use in general, non-technical briefings of
management and staff on the technical security threat and measures to guard
against it. stressed that the staffs of SECOM and its
Technical Surveillance Countermeasures Subcommittee are not adequate to plan
and accomplish the work involved. No members offered to accomplish the task.
G. Advised of developments concerning the su lemental
appropriation for technical security overseas. said the
apportioned funds had been reduced pursuant to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Bill,
with DIA's polygraph program funding being eliminated and the
State-r-program to protect plain text processing equipment being reduced by
the funds are being obligated. highlighted the quarterly
reporting requirements on CIA. a e an for data on actual and
planned use of these funds.
He noted IC Staff management concern about the slowness with which
observed that implementation of NSDD-196 polygraph provisions will be a
gradual process. F__1
accesses in the department, which may not necessarily be SCI.
polygraph capability left over for other requirements. (said
he thought the objective is to get a commitment from persons with sensitive
access to take a polygraph examination if requested to do so. This provides
flexibility in the use of limited polygraph resources. Mr. Anderson stated
that Defense will use the polygraph in connection with the most sensitive
issue to date. Mr. Anderson stated that DoD cannot provide polygraph
examinations for all departmental personnel with SCI access and have an
H. Reported that the NSDD-196 Task Force met three times, most-recently
on 9 January to discuss implementation of polygraph policy.
said he was concerned that the Community has not really come to grips with the
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I. Informed members that he thought we needed a means for regular
review of the appendix to DCID 1/20 to ensure that rapidly changing world
events are properly reflected in the listing of countries of security concern
from a travel and assignment perspective. Maj. Brewer said he would relay Mr.
concerns to Col. Cody. Mr. Stoops advised that the FBI would
uisuiuuue-a--s-~milar list in implementation of NSDD-197. Members discussed
the need for classification of the list. explained that the
classification was based on foreign relations consi erations.
ACTION: The Chairman, SECOM Compartmentation Subcommittee, is
requested to ensure regular review of the appendix to
DCID 1/20.
J. Noted that the DCI signed a request in November,1985 to the
Community seeking greater instructor support for the ITC.
said several good responses were received. State is recruiting for an
instructor to be assigned this summer. Army now provides two staff
personnel. Army has been asked to extend the tour of one of them. Air Force
is negotiating a manpower authorization to provide an additional instructor.
Secret Service can't provide a person from their limited staff, but offers
monetary support if their budget permits. NSA has informally offered guest
speakers. In addition to instructors, the ITC needs a good bench technician
to maintain and repair training equipment. thanked those
agencies and departments which have helped support the ITC over the years.
K. Invited attention to copies at members' places of H.R. 3626, a bill
to establish a national commission on classified information and security
clearance procedures. noted that the objectives of the bill
seem to be generally consistent with security objectives. He said he wanted
members to be aware of this initiative. Mr. Anderson stated that Senator
Durenberger had objected to this bill some months ago. He said Defense agrees
with the Senator that it is not a desirable approach.
L. Advised that the SECOM staff had received calls less than an hour
before the start of the meeting concerning prospective attendees. Mr.
asked members to ensure that his staff is informed not later than
the close of business the Friday before SECOM meetings of the particulars of
persons planning to attend. In case of an emergency requiring last minute
changes, members should call him or to discuss the situation. F-
ITEM 1 Approval of Minutes
In the absence of requests for change, the minutes of the 23 October
1985 meeting were approved as written.
The Chairman advised that Messrs. Anderson and Stoops had requested
minor changes to the minutes of the November seminar. No other changes being
requested, those minutes were approved subject to the changes requested.
(Editorial changes will be annoted on the SECOM file copy; substantive ones
will be reflected in corrected pages.) n
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ITEM 2 Briefing on the 4C System
(given at the beginning of the meeting.)
ITEM 3 Revision of DCID 1/14
The Chairman noted dissemination to members on 26 December of a new
draft revision of this directive with a request for concurrences or comments
not later than this meeting. said CIA, NSA and OSD objected
to inclusion of the qualifiers "immoral" and "notorious" in the sexual conduct
portion of Annex A of the DCID. The CIA Office of General Counsel advised
that such language has been litigated in a federal employment context and
largely discredited as a legitimate subject of federal inquiry.
said Mr. Mulholland, Treasury member of the NFIB, had
provided a number of useful editorial suggestions. NSA had done so as well.
They were used in the draft sent to members. advised that
the draft does not include a new definition of which he he ieved should be
adopted to avoid the circular non-definition used heretofore. He read his
proposed version, and asked to send it to members promptly for
ACTION: The Executive Secretary will prepare correspondence to SECOM
members providing the text of the proposed new definition of
SCI. F-~
advised that OSD, FBI, DIA and CIA had concurred in the
draft revision. Army concurred, but requested that Annex C to the DCID
include only a bare reference to outside activities. said
the draft language for Annex C is needed to cover issues not dealt with
elsewhere in the proposed revision. Col. Gallo acknowledged that his comment
was not a strong position and that he could accept the draft as written. CAPT
Horn said the requirement in the draft Annex C for annual notices doesn't
provide flexibility. Mr. Anderson suggested that the notice could be included
in the required annual security briefing. Maj. Brewer noted that the Air
Force has an annual conflict of interest reporting requirement. He suggested
the notice could be provided with that re ort or comparable ones used by other
departments and agencies. observed that members seemed to be
in agreement on the draft revision. He no ed that SECOM has made significant
progress on DCID 1/14 in the last few years. In response to a question on
whether there have been any legal challenges to the DCID, Mr. Anderson said
case law is such that judges will not look behind an agency's rules so long as
they are applied uniformly. F--]
ITEM 4 Requests for OCID 1/7 Waivers
The Chairman noted that DIA had two requests before SECOM for waivers to
permit NO CONTRACT information to be released to specific contractors for
specific purposes. advised that the waiver to permit release
to contractors working on the SAFE Project was granted when agreed
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for DIA to the condons of access proposed by SECOM members at the October
1985 meeting.
reported that CIA has a specific security concern about
the waiver requested to permit release to a unit of the Rand Corporatio
Under our rules SECOM cannot concur in the waiver if a member objects.
briefed members on another DIA waiver request. SECOM
members approved at the 8 February 1985 meeting a DCID 1/7 waiver to permit a
small group of contractor personnel to work in DIA spaces under DIA
supervision to automate a counterintelligence data base. The contractors hold
SCI access based on investigations meeting DCID 1/14 standards. The 1985
waiver was for a limited period. An engineering modification to the contract
extended the period of performance to 15 October 1986. DIA requests extension
of the waiver to that date to permit completion ork. Members had no
objections to the extension, which was granted.
said SECOM needs to address again the classification of
DCID 1/7. At the 29 May 1985 meeting he and the CIA and NSA members supported
classification at the Confidential level while other members had some concerns
about doing so. advised that the DCI wrote the Director of
ISOO in 1985 stating that DCID 117 would be revised and remain Confidential.
Exploration shows that it will be difficult to support classification
adequately. In a recent conversation with the Chairman, IS00 Director
Garfinkel stated that classification of the directive is quite questionable
since the earlier unclassified version, which is substantially identical to
the current one, was widely disseminated and can't feasibly be retrieved for
purposes of reclassification. asked for member comments.
Mr. Anderson said he agreed with Mr. Garfinkel. Col. Gallo observed that Mr.
Garfinkel was consistent on this issue. Lt. Col. Riccardi stated that the
mosaic effect of declassification should be addressed.
invited Col. Gallo to discuss his request for SECOM
endorsement of the Army ACSI's position that the mail and distribution center
at Ft. Huachuca not be considered for contractor operation. Col. Gallo said
the Army Senior Intelligence Officer is trying to hold out against contracting
operation of the mail center. He stated that recent events (e.g.,
Gramm/Rudman/Hollings) will intensify pressures to contract government
functions. He invited members' attention to copies at their places of his
17 December 1985 memorandum on this subject. Col. Gallo summarized its
contents, and stressed the potential for broad contractor access to DCID 1/7
controlled material if the mail room function is privatized. He noted that
the Army Comptroller's office seems to have difficulty in balancing the
security and the cost factors involved in this case. He asked members to
endorse his position opposing contracting operation of the Army Intelligence
Center and School. Mr. Anderson said that the precedent for this was set by
the Acting DCI in the case of the Department of Energy's proposal to contract
operation of its all-source communications center. He suggested that we
similarly oppose contracting of the Army facility. asked if
we need to explore the philosophic aspect of this issue. He asked members to
reflect on how and why we should determine that contractors who meet DCID 1/14
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standards are less trustworthy than US Government personnel. Mr. Anderson
said we should make the case on a contract basis, not security. He stated
that we need to guard against one contractor providing controlled information
to another. agreed. Mr. Anderson noted that DoD has similar
concerns with a a exc ange agreements with regard to unclassified information
that specific contractors provide subject to restrictions on its use. He
asked if DCID 1/7 language on use of the NO CONTRACT control needs to be
revised to reflect a better approach to the issue. Mr. Blankenship asked if
espionage cases show contractors to be a greater risk than government
personnel. eplied that that would be difficult to affirm or
rebut. no e e potential for contractors to change based on
cost and performance factors. Mr. Anderson said he thought Army has a good
case in this instance. In response to Col. Gallo's request, all members
indicated their support for the Army position against contracting operation of
the Ft. Huachuca facility mail room. noted his recent
conversation with the Executive Assistant to the DDCI, who advised that Mr.
McMahon still holds to the position he took in the Energy communications
center case. Mr. Anderson asked that discussion of DCID 1/7 be on the agenda
for a future SECOM meeting.
ACTION: The Executive Secretary will schedule discussion of DCID 1/7
issues for a future meeting of the SECOM.
asked if any members had further comments on the
classification of 1/7. said we should not dismiss the
desirability of classifying security directives, but added that he is prepared
to yield on 1/7 if we can't make a case for classification. greed
with that position.
ITEM 5 New Business
A. The Chairman asked members if they had an comments on the
usefulness of the November SECOM seminar, said the highlight for
him was the exchanges with our guest speakers. ded that the other
discussions were useful. said he would explore the
possibility of getting Congressional Oversight Committee staff members to
speak with us again. He asked members if they had a preference fie
location ofl such discussions. Members indicated that they wante for this
B. Maj. Brewer urged members to ask their legislative liaison personnel
to help ensure that their Congressional contacts apply proper markings on SCI
documents. Mr. Anderson observed that Congress is in the process of learning
how to do this properly. He noted a Stilwell report recommendation that
Congressional leadership be alerted to security. commented
that CIA has security cognizance for Congress as a non-NFIB agency, and noted
that this is an area where the DCI needs to be active. He asked members to be
attentive to security issues involving the Congress, and to help ensure that
Congressional contacts get the help they need to do the job right and that DCI
assistance be requested in cases involving SCI.
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C. for the quality of the seminar
minutes. ne awrseu to L ne sent ne minutes to his managers for their
information.
D. Mr. Gattozzi advised that Gramm/Rudman/Hollings cuts were having an
impact a artment of Justice. A one-for-three hiring freeze is in
effect. tbe- Oe~
ITEM 6 Next Meeting
The Chairman scheduled the next regular meeting for 10:0
Wednesday, 12 February 1986, in room 7D32, CIA Headquarters.
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