LETTER TO MR. RUSSEL A . SWANEY FROM(Sanitized)

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP88-01315R000200430001-8
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 45
• Document Creation Date: December 16, 2016
• Document Release Date: October 5, 2004
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: May 4, 1978
• Content Type: LETTER

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4 May 1978
Mr. Russel A. Swaney
President
The Economic Club of Detroit
920 Free Press Building
Detroit, Michigan 48226
Dear Mr. Swaney:
Enclosed please find the edited
transcript of Admiral Turner's remarks to
the Detroit Economic Club.
If there is anything else we can do
for you, please don't hesitate to ask.
Sincerely,
2 -/
Staff Assistant
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REMARKS
ADMIRAL STANSFIELD TURNER
DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE
DETROIT ECONOMIC CLUB
13 April 1978
Distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen. I am very pleased to
be here in Detroit, the city so symbolic of the industrial might of
our country. I am grateful that so many of you would take the time to
show this interest in the intelligence activities of our country.
Interestingly, one of the trends in those activities today is the
more symbiotic relationship which is developing between American
intelligence organizations and the American business community. In
intelligence we are moving more and more to the study and analysis of
international economic activities. It is a marked change in the
process of intelligence and a very significant one; one that I hope
will spill over to the benefit of the American business community.
If we look back thirty years to when a central intelligence
activity was first organized, the primary product of intelligence was
information about Soviet military affairs. That was perceived as the
principal threat to the country, so it became the principal concern of
all our intelligence agencies. Look how that has changed. Today our
country is interested and involved with many countries around the
world, much, I suppose, as many of your businesses. The Soviet Union
and its immediate satellites, while important, are but one of the
areas in which we are interested. We have intercourse with most of
the 150-some nations of the world, and that intercourse is related
much more to political and economic matters than it is to the military.
Accordingly, we have had to shift our focus from military concerns
exclusively to encompass these other spheres as well.
Let me not overstate the case to you. Our primary intelligence
concern must continue to be the military posture of the Soviet
Union because that continues to be our most serious threat. But
beyond that, the intelligence community has had to expand its horizons,
its capabilities, and its areas of technical expertise, to embrace the
problems of international drug trafficking, international terrorism,
energy concerns, and so on. It is a new and demanding challenge. It
is one where we are qualified to contribute significantly and, in my
opinion, are. It also relates directly to your concerns in the.
business world because this change in focus encourages a second trend
in American intelligence, a trend toward greater openness.
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As you would suspect, traditionally, intelligence services have
operated with maximum secrecy and minimum disclosure. That may have
been a good policy in the past; however, I do not think it is appropri-
ate for the United States today. The American public has a right to
know something of what we are doing and something of what we are
producing. They have a right to see some return on their investment
in intelligence activities. So, we are out speaking more, we are
responding to the media more, participating more in academic and other
symposia and conferences, and we are publishing more. Here, I think,
is where the American business community can benefit directly. Today
when we study some international aspect of our nation's policies, and
develop an estimate or evaluation, we look at it carefully and
ask ourselves how we might declassify it for public use. First we
remove clues that could identify our sources. If we revealed our
sources, we would vitate their future usefulness and perhaps endanger
them as well. Secondly, we remove information whose value to the
President or a principal policy maker derives primarily from its
exclusivety; that is, they know something and others do not. Once
we have removed these sensitive sections, if there is enough substance
left to support the study's conclusions, we publish it on an unclassi-
fied basis. We hope this will help the public identify important
national issues and improve the quality of debate on those issues.
Many of these studies will be of more interest to the business commu-
nity than to the general public. Let me cite a few examples from over
100 unclassified studies we published in 1977.
Just a year ago we published a study on the prospects for world
energy. We did not predict that the world will run out of oil, that
there will not be adequate reserves to carry us through the rest of
this century or further; we did predict that the slope of the curve of
demand for oil and all other forms of energy was rising more steeply
than could any possible curve of supply. That sometime in the next
eight to ten years, the world would want to consume more energy than
it could obtain, principally because we will not be able to remove it
from the ground rapidly enough to meet the demand. The basic conclu-
sion, of course, is that if these events come to pass there may well
be pressure on the price of energy.
Last summer we published a study on Soviet economic prospects.
In our view the Soviets have kept their economy growing for the last
several decades by a policy of increasing infusions of labor and
capital and, we believe, they are coming to the end of that line. If
you look at the Soviet Union's demography you will find that in the
1980s, their labor force's rate of growth will decline--not the size
of the labor force, but the rate of its growth. There were not enough
babies born in the 1960s, so there will not be enough young adults
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You would also be interested that we have published a study on
international terrorism. I wish I could report to you in a more
sanguine tone, but the conclusions of this study were not favorable.
We see no prospect for a decline in international terrorism. Instead,
over the last few years there has been a marked increase in the number
of international terrorist incidents involving United States citizens
and business interests outside this country. A disappointing conclu-
sion, but one that we have to face.
We hope that these and other studies that we are publishing will
be of value to you as citizens and to the American business community.
We are making them available on that basis. Again, I do not want to
overstate my case. We cannot open up completely. We cannot disclose
all the information we collect nor all that we study. So much of what
we do, so much of what we learn, is of value only if kept secret.
But it is my opinion that by publishing as much as we can, we improve
our ability to protect those few necessary secrets. Perhaps the
principal reason we have such a difficult time keeping secrets is
that we have too many of them. When you have too many secrets, people
do not respect them. So by narrowing the corpus of classified informa-
tion, I hope to engender greater respect for that which remains and at
the same time be able to protect it better.
The lack of respect for classified information is becoming a
serious problem and typified by the number of people who decide
unilaterally to release classified information. They write books,
they give interviews, and they say things that do more harm often than
they realize. They violate contracts they have signed with the
government promising not to reveal classified information. I think we
have come to the point in this country where the public should no
longer be quite so willing to welcome these disclosures, often made in
the guise of stopping those of us in the government from doing heinous
things, but more often made for self-serving purposes. If their
logic were taken to its extreme, each one of us 215 million Americans
would be empowered to decide what secrets the country should keep and
what secrets the country should release. And that would cause nothing
less than chaos. The time has come to put more trust in elected and
public officials or, at the very least, not presume a priori that
public officials are only out to obscure the truth or cover up mistakes-
I do not ask you to take us on faith or trust alone; a third trend
in American intelligence is toward more oversight of intelligence
activities.
When you consider that we must keep a great many secrets, it
should be obvious that we cannot have full public knowledge and
oversight of our activities. How then can the average citizen be
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assured that American intelligence agencies are only doing what they
are authorized to do? Out of the crucible of three years of intense
public criticism of intelligence, activities, a process of surrogate
oversight has been forged. This surrogate process relies on several
individuals and groups to be fully informed of what intelligence
agencies are doing and act in the public's stead. Let me describe a
couple of those surrogates to you.
The first are the President and the Vice President, who today
take a very active, intense interest in all intelligence activities.
I report to the President weekly. They are kept well abreast of
what we are doing and they give me complete and detailed guidance.
On top of that, two years ago an Intelligence Oversight Board
was established consisting of three distinguished Americans: former
Senator Gore from Tennessee, former Governor Scranton of Pennsylvania,
and Mr. Thomas Farmer, an attorney, of Washington, D.C. These three
gentlemen oversee the legality and the propriety of intelligence
activities. Anyone in the intelligence community, any citizen, may
communicate with them directly, calling problems, abuses, or wrong-
doing to their attention. They will investigate that complaint
and report what they think should be done directly to the President.
Beyond that, two committees have been created in the Congress to
oversee the intelligence process, one in the Senate, another in the
House of Representatives. These committees require me to testify
regularly. I am completely forthright with them and keep them well
informed. At the slightest indication of a problem, they ask us for
an explanation and we provide it to their satisfaction.
I think that these processes give much greater assurance than
was possible in the past that we are not doing things that the
American public would not support, or that are not in conformance with
American foreign policy. I think there are adequate mechanisms here to
which so-called whistle-blowers could go if they were sincere in
their desire to reform. I would respect their whistle-blowing much
more if they would try the authorized, established oversight procedures
first, before taking it upon themselves to release information that
could gravely damage this nation.
To be honest with you, there are risks in oversight. There is
the risk that the more people you tell, the greater the chance sensi-
tive information will be leaked. There is the risk that the more
people you must tell about intelligence operations, the more timid you
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may become and the less willing you will be to take some risks which
must be taken in the interest of our country. We must have enough
oversight to ensure control, but not so much that we grow timid or can
keep no secrets. We are working out a proper balance and ensuring
that citizens' rights and our nation's values are protected on the one
hand, and ensuring enough privacy of the intelligence process that it
can be effective on the other.
As a result of these several trends the intelligence process is
being dramatically reshaped into a new and unique model of intell-
igence, an American model of intelligence.
Last January, the President directed a modest reorganization of
intelligence activity. In many ways he went back to the spirit of the
original National Security Act of 1947, which established a Director
of Central Intelligence--separate from the Director of the Central
Intelligence Agency--to coordinate all of the intelligence activities
of our nation. The President's order modestly strengthened the
Director of Central Intelligence's authority over the budgets of all
national intelligence organizations, and over their tasking. As
Director of Central Intelligence, I am now empowered to direct the
collection efforts of all intelligence agencies to ensure that they
are being used to best advantage and as a team. We want neither to
let anything drop between the cracks, nor duplicate effort, nor waste
resources.
Also, I have been given additional authority to ensure that
the other half of intelligence--collection being only the first half
of the job, the second half is analyzing, studying, drawing conclu-
sions from the information which is collected is also well coordi-
nated. Here one point is important. While I can coordinate the
analysis of intelligence, I cannot direct people outside the Central
Intelligence Agency on how to do that analysis or what conclusions to
come to. Independent views must come forward from the Defense
Department, the State Department, the Treasury, and others. No
one is so smart as to be able to put all the pieces of the puzzle
together exactly right. Opinions as to what a piece of information
means will differ. You need those differing opinions coming forward
so the decision makers will be aware of the strengths and the weak-
nesses of an intelligence analysis.
Finally, the President directed something new and important in
establishing a committee of the National Security Council to oversee
the entire intelligence operation and determine the priorities of our
work. The point being that I should not establish priorities. I am
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not a consumer of intelligence. This committee, composed of the
Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Treasury,
the National Security Advisor to the President, know what we need and
can give me that overall guidance and direction.
I sincerely believe that these new trends and a few others I have
not had time to mention, are strengthening our capability. We are the
best intelligence service in the world. I assure you that I am dedicated
to maintaining us as the number one intelligence service in the world
and doing so in ways that will only support and defend our democratic
institutions.
Thank you very much.
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Q&A - DETROIT ECONOMIC CLUB
Q: What is the relationship between a free society and undercover
intelligence? How can we have a dependable intelligence system
under present conditions of mass media exposures, political
interference and disclosures, and threats of legal action against
agents?
A: There is an inherent contradiction between having an open and
free democratic society and having to maintain a certain number of
secrets in the process of conducting the international affairs
of that society. Most of the nations of the world are not blessed
with a society as open as ours. Because of that we need an
intelligence capability to know what is going on in all societies
whose actions have daily and direct impact on you and me, our
taxes, our national policies and programs. We balance the need for
secrecy by establishing the checks and counter-checks that I have
mentioned to you today, to be sure that on the one hand you can
maintain secrets, and on the other hand that no one abuses that
privilege. I believe we are establishing a good balance today.
I have also asked you today for a little understanding to permit
that balance to stabilize. Those people who run to the press
with national security information which should not be released
should not necessarily be immediately acclaimed as heroes. Some
of them are doing it out of patriotic motives; some of them are
self-serving. The point is that we have now established procedures
so they can voice their complaints within the system and with the
proper safeguards for classified information. These procedures
provide assurance to you that improper activities, if they exist,
can be brought to the attention of oversight bodies and acted upon
without compromising lives or expensive technical collection
systems.
Q: Are you satisfied that you still have the kind of authority and
organization that can do a good job of intelligence world-wide?
A: Yes, I definitely am. In part, because of the additions to
my authority that the President has recently given me. In part,
because in addition to the standard form of collecting intelli-
gence that goes back as far as history--the human intelligence
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agent, the spy--we have a pre-eminence in the world in what
we call technical means of collecting intelligence. These capa-
bilities have been burgeoning over recent years and providing us
with vastly increased quantities of data. They have not outmoded
the traditional human intelligence agent, they have in fact
increased his importance. From a technical system, you generally
learn what happened yesterday. When I produce that information to
a policy maker, he wants to know why that happened and what will
happen tomorrow. Finding out what people are thinking and what
their plans are is the role of the intelligence agent. Both human
and technical collection capabilities are indispensable. So today,
the challenge to us, and it is an exciting one, is to bring this
together in a complementary fashion to ensure that we will fill
the gaps by technical means that cannot be filled by human agents
and vice versa. It is a new form of production line for us and a
very, very demanding one.
Q: What is happening to covert action?
A: What has gotten us into the most trouble in the past is what
we call covert political action--interfering in the politics or
other activities of foreign nations. This is not an intelligence
activity. It is a political action. It has been assigned by the
government as an adjunct to the responsibilities of the Central
Intelligence Agency ever since it was founded in 1947. It is the
most controversial part of our activities and in recent years has
been placed under very strict control. Before we can act in any
other country, today we must gain approval of the National
Security Council, obtain the signature of the President of the
United States, and I must inform the appropriate committees of
Congress of what we are doing. So we have two branches of the
government involved in this as a check and a balance. There is
just no way, without violating the law, that I can go charging
off and direct interference in other countries' political activ-
ities. I can assure you I have no desire to go to jail.
Q: What is the internal attitude of the CIA concerning agents such
as James Agee and others who have exposed CIA operations upon
their leaving the Agency?
A: We are all very disappointed with people who have assumed the
responsibilities of working in intelligence agencies and then
act irresponsibly when they leave. Mr. Agee has done very severe
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damage to intelligence operations. He has destroyed careers of
innocent people. For example, an individual might have worked for
us for ten, fifteen, twenty years; worked at great personal
sacrifice by being under cover. By that I mean he does not
acknowledge, maybe to his family even, that he works for the
Central Intelligence Agency. I can assure you that this is not
done easily and is not done without sacrifice. For instance, this
man may have climbed up in our organization and have a position of
great responsibility, yet must pretend that he is working for
somebody else in a position of much lesser importance. What do
his children think of his stature? Why didn't father get promoted?
Why didn't he advance like others, and so on. Yet after all these
years of that sacrifice, Agee may have published this man's name
in a book and subsequently endangered his life or, at the least,
reduced his usefulness; hurt his career prospects, his ability to
serve his country, to progress within the Central Intelligence
Agency. I think it is most unfortunate.
Does, or did the United States have some CIA contraption high
in the mountains of Asia and if, in fact, there is a nuclear
monitoring device on Indian territory, is such an unauthorized
invasion of other countries' sovereignty considered justifiable
practice by our intelligence agencies?
A: One of the most difficult things about being in the intelligence
business with this combination of openness and secrecy, is
that often we cannot defend ourselves against accusations. If I
comment on this particular alleged activity, then I am in a spot
if I cannot comment on the next one. It just leaves one in a
very vulnerable position. So we have to take a policy of never
commenting on alleged or actual past or ongoing intelligence
operations. I wish I could do better for you.
Q: What is the CIA's position on the defection of the senior Soviet
UN executive?
A: This is a delicate diplomatic and political problem. It is
entirely in the hands of the Secretary of State and I am not
going to muck up the waters by commenting.
Do you have a group of paramilitary people trained to go to the
aid of Americans that might be held for.ransom abroad by a
terrorist group?
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A: No. But the President has directed the Secretary of Defense to
establish such a capability. It is in being and will be very
effective in due course.
Your opinion of Panama Canal Treaties as they affect our military
strength?
A: One of the principles of being an intelligence officer is that
you stay absolutely clear of policy. And that is really a very
important point. If I ever become associated with a pro-Panama
Canal Treaty or an anti-Panama Canal Treaty position, from then
on any intelligence I might produce on this subject would be
suspect. We must scrupulously keep ourselves clear of expressing
opinions on policy matters to preserve the objectivity which is
essential to 'good intelligence.
Q: Do you agree with the "punishment" given Richard Helms and would
you try to suppress the prosecution of CIA agents for illegal
activities as recently happened with the former FBI director?
A: The solution of the Helms case was one that worked out very well
from my point of view. On the other hand, had he been prosecuted,
it would have been necessary both for the prosecution and cer-
tainly for the defense to disclose a great quantity of highly
classified information. It would not have been fair not to have
done so as the prosecution proceeded. It would have hurt our
country's interest in many respects. On the other hand, the
process through which Mr. Helms went was a poignant reminder to
all of us in the government, and particularly in the intelligence
world, that none of us stands above the law. The law of the
United States of America is the governing factor in all of our
activities and we have no license, no excuse for violating it in
any respect. Nor do I have any intention of trying to exonerate
anybody in our organization who violates the law. They know
that and they have to live up to it.
Q: Is there much possibility that the terrorism plaguing Europe and
the Mideast could spread to the United States?
A: There is always that possibility. But I think the country has a
good record in anti-hijacking and anti-terrorism because of the
precautions we have taken at our airports and elsewhere; because
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of the attitude of our people in supporting the law enforcement
agencies in that type of activity; and because we, being a free
society where dissent can be voiced, do not have the same impetus
to this kind of activity. But it is a danger, and it is one to
which we all must be continually alert. We in the intelligence
world, as I briefly mentioned, are expending a great deal of
effort to keep track of international terrorist activities as
best we can through our resources, through our liaison with other
friendly intelligence agencies. I am proud to tell you that
in a number of instances it has been our information that has
thwarted some international terrorist plans--not in this country,
but elsewhere. We think that is a valuable service and we intend
to continue doing the best we can to help out here.
Q: Pearl Harbor and the Bay of Pigs were tremendous fiascos of the
intelligence collecting agencies. Can this happen again?
A: The honest answer is yes. The other answer is that we are doing
everything we can to prevent that. We are human. We are fallible.
However, we are trying to ensure, as I brought out in my remarks,
that differing views come forward on the trends or likely develop-
ments in different world situations. If you suppress the minority
view when it is well reasoned and set forth, you do a great
disservice and invite the possibility of overlooking signals
which could alert you to some potential problem such- as the Bay of
Pigs or Pearl Harbor. In short, one of the real challenges in
intelligence is constantly to question your hypotheses. Are you
making the same assumption over and over again? For example, the
Arabs will never increase the price of oil; the Arabs will never
attack Israel; or the Japanese will never attack Pearl Harbor.
However true an assumption may seem, you must constantly probe it.
I cannot guarantee we won't make a mistake again, but I will
guarantee we are trying our best to avoid it.
Q: Do you think there are any Soviet agents in the audience reporting
on you today?
A: Is there a Soviet Counsul General in Detroit? I frequently find
a Soviet representative at my talks. I mentioned the 100 or
so unclassified publications. Any one of you can write the
Library of Congress and subscribe to our annual product of
unclassified studies for $225.00. I would just let you know that
the Soviet Union is spending $450.00 in that department. I just
happened to look at the list the other day. But I am not giving
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away secrets today. I am trying to be as open and forthright
with you as I can and I am doing it sincerely in the interest of
keeping the American public informed and, in that process,
generating greater respect for what must be kept secret. I am
working very hard in both directions--openness on the one hand,
and tighter secrecy on the other. That which is secret must be
kept secret. All,that possibly can be made available will be made
available.
I am so grateful to you for being here and wanting to hear about
this today. It is your support that will determine the future of our
intelligence activities in this country. I sincerely believe they.
are more important to our country today in an era of near military
parity; in an era of political and economic interdependence with so
many other countries of the world, than they ever have been before
when we had great superiority in all these fields. You need the
leverage of good information to make right decisions, and we need
your support in that activity.
Thank you.
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The Economic Club of Detroit
RUSSEL A. SWANEY
PRESIDENT
The Honorable Stansfield Turner
Director
Central Intelligence Agency
Washington, D.C. 20505
Executive Registry
AREA CODE 313
TELEPHONE [phone]
April 18, 1978
First of all, we want to thank you for coming to Detroit
and making such an excellent speech before The Economic
Club of Detroit.
Also, in accordance with our conversation, we are attach-
ing transcript of your speech, together with the questions
and answers. We would appreciate your editing the entire
transcript and returning to us as soon as possible,so
that we can put this into print and mail copies to~our
entire membership. We are also sending Mr. Hudson a
copy of the transcript so that he can edit his intro-
duction and the questions.
You will be interested in the enclosed tear sheets from
our local papers concerning your speech.
Thanks, again, and we are very glad to know that the
Central Intelligence Agency is in such good hands.
Sincerely,
RAS:vc
Enc1s.
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(The meeting was opened by President Russel A. Swaney, who
presented Joseph L. Hudson, Jr., Chairman and Chief Executive
Officer, The J. L. Hudson Company, as Presiding Officer.)
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: Thank you, Russ. Distinguished guests,
ladies and gentlemen:
I am pleased to have this opportunity to participate in today's
Economic Club meeting. For those of us who spend our lives running
retail businesses or doing other kinds of work which focus entirely on
Detroit or the United States, the events which have been going on throughout
the rest of the world in recent years are sometimes bewildering and
confusing.
It is difficult to understand on one hand the introduction of Soviet
and Cuban troops and military supplies in Africa, while at the same time
we are told that detente is upon us and that Strategic Arms Limitation
Talks are moving forward.
We know that the oil resources of the Middle East are key to our
economy and yet many of us do not have the information to know what
the military and political factors are which might lead to a peaceful
Middle East environment which will protect local human rights as well as
the United States' strategic position.
Our speaker today must constantly deal with these complex issues
and we are very grateful to him for taking the time to be with us, to
address us, and to answer any questions that you may have after his
formal remarks.
Admiral Stansfield Turner was sworn in as Director of the Central
Intelligence Agency in March of 1977. In this position, he heads the foreign
intelligence activities of the United States.
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Admiral Turner is a native of Illinois who is a graduate of
the United States Naval Academy Class of 1947. He also studied philosophy,
politics and economics as a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford University.
Following Oxford, he held a variety of naval assignments, including
command of a mine sweeper, a destroyer, a guided missile frigate, the
Carrier Task Group of the Sixth Fleet, and the United States Second Fleet
and the NATO Atlantic Strike Fleet.
His shore assignments have included being the Executive Assistant
to the Secretary of the Navy, the Advanced Management Program at Harvard,
the presidency of the Naval War College and Director of the Systems
Analysis Division in the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations.
I am very pleased to introduce to you Admiral Stansfield Turner
who will speak to us on the topic, "New Directions in Intelligence."
Admiral Turner.
(Applause)
ADMIRAL STANSFIELD TURNER: Thank you very much, Joe.
Distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen:
I am really very pleased to be here in Detroit, this city so
symbolic of the industrial might of our country. I'm very grateful that
so many of you would take the time to show this interest in the intelligence
activities of our country.
Interestingly, one of the trends in those activities today, I believe,
is developing a more symbiotic relationship between the American intelligence
organizations and the American business community. That trend is that
we are moving more and more in intelligence to the study, the analysis
of international economic activities. It is a marked change in our process
of intelligence but a very impoktant and significant one, and one that I hope
will spill over to the benefit of the American business community.
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If I may look back 30 years to when we first in this country
organized a central intelligence activity, at that time the primary product
of intelligence was information about Soviet military activity. That was
the principal threat to the country. It was the principal concern of all
of our intelligence agencies. Look how in the last 30 years that has
changed, much, I assume, as your businesses have changed in their inter-
national concerns and aspects.
Today our country is of course quite interested, quite involved with
so many more countries than just the Soviet Union and its immediate
satellites. We have intercourse with most of the 150-some nations of this
world. And that intercourse is much more in political and economic matters
than it is in military. Accordingly, we have had to begin to shift our
focus from just military concerns to much more in these other spheres.
Now let me not overstate the case to you. Our primary, our
number one intelligence concern must continue to be the military posture of
the Soviet Union. That continues to be our number one threat. But on
top of that today we in the intelligence community have had to expand our
horizons, have had to expand our capabilities, our areas of technical
expertise, into these spheres of international economics, international politics,
the prevention of international drug traffic, the prevention of international
terrorism, and so on. It's an exciting, a new and a demanding challenge
to us. It's one that I believe is called for; is one that I think we are
doing an excellent job in.
It relates to you in the business world because of another trend
in American intelligence today and that's the trend toward greater openness.
As you would suspect, traditionally intelligence organizations have ope rated
under maximum secrecy and minimum disclosure. That may have been
a good policy in the past. I don't happen to think it's effective or appro-
priate in the United States today. The American public has a right to know
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something of what we are doing and something of what we are producing.
They have a right to see something of the return on their investment in
our intelligence activities.
And so today we are out speaking more, we are responding to
the media more, we are participating more in academic and other symposia an
conferences. And we are publishing more. And here, I think, is where there
is a direct benefit and spillover to the American business community.
Today when we develop an estimate, an evaluation, a study of
some international aspect of our nation's policies, we carefully look at
it and we say, "Does that label . . . " -- you know, we label it SECRET,
or TOP SECRET, or DESTROY BEFORE READING; whatever it may be --
"Does it really have to have that label on it, or, can we take out of it
two things: the first is information that would reveal how we obtained
the data in the study; what was our source -- because if we reveal that,
you can well expect that we won't be able to get anything from that source
again; or, secondly, take out of it material that is valuable to our President,
to our principal policymakers, because they have an exclusive on it.
They know it and other people do not." And if we take those things out
which would hurt the national interest to publish, is there enough of substance
left to be of value to the American public. And if there is, we publish it
on an unclassified basis.
We hope this is going to help the public interest and improve the
quality of public debate on important national issues. But we also think
sharing it with the business community will be of particular value because
many of these will be of more interest to people like yourselves than they
will be perhaps to the general public. Let me cite a few examples of the
over 100 unclassified studies we published in 1977.
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Just a year ago we published one on the prospects for the world
energy situation. We were not predicting that the world was going to run
out of oil, that there wouldn't be enough reserves to carry us through the
rest of this century or further on. We were simply predicting that the
slope of the curve of demand for oil and all other forms of energy was
rising more steeply, in our opinion, than could any possible curve of
supply of energy, and that sometime in the next eight to ten years the
world as a whole was going to want to consume more energy than it was
going to be possible to obtain, principally because we couldn't get it out
of the ground in the form of oil in this time frame -_ not in the indefinite
future, but in the next eight to ten years -- as rapidly as we would need to,
to meet this demand. The basic conclusion is, of course, that there may
well be an increase or a pressure on the price of energy if these events
do succeed in this way.
Shortly after that, last summer we published another study about
the Soviet economic prospects and we said that in our view the Soviets
have kept their. economy growing for the last several decades by a policy
of increasing infusions of labor and capital, and that we believe they are
coming to the end of that line. If you look at the Soviet Union's demography
today, you'll find that in the 1980's there's no question about it, the rate
of growth of their labor force is going to decline. Not the size of the labor
force, the rate of growth. There just weren't those babies born in the
1960's so they cannot continue to infuse increasing quantities of labor.
And as they look around for more capital to infuse, they're having
to reach further and further into places like Siberia. And we happen to
think, they also are going to have a particular problem with their oil supply.
We believe in the next three or four years they will peak out for production
and decline sharply. Again, this is not a longterm forecast, this is be-
cause p Srove Jigve
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to reach a point where they'll hit diminishing returns before they can bring
vast new quantities that are available to them in reserves onto the
production line.
So the combination of these factors means that, not having ready
access to more labor or to inexpensive capital, they're going to have
some very difficult economic decisions to face. Now they may overcome
some of these problems one way or another. They can reduce their
emphasis on the military and take manpower out of that. They could do
a number of other things. They can stop selling as much oil as they do
to the Eastern European countries, and so on. But we feel that those will
be difficult decisions; we don't know how they will manage them. Some
of the solutions would make them go contrary to their basic economic
philosophy and some of those difficult economic decisions may just happen
to confront them at a time of an important change of their leadership,
which appears as likely to happen sometime in the next few years.
So it may be a difficult time to take these tough decisions.
You might also be interested that we've published a study on inter-
national terrorism and I wish I could report in a more sanguine tone to
you. But the conclusions of this study were not favorable. They saw no
prospect for the decline of international terrorism. And they saw over
the last few years a marked increase in the number of international
terrorist incidents that involved United States citizens or business interests
outside this country. A disappointing conclusion but one that we have
to face up to.
Now we hope that these and other studies that we are publishing
will be of value to you as citizens and of value to the American business
community and we're making them available on that basis. At the same
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time again, I do not want to overstate the case. We cannot in any way
disclose all that we study, all that we collect in the way of intelligence,
so much of what we do, so much of what we learn simply must 'be kept
secret in the national interest.
But it is my opinion that we are helping to protect those necessary
secrets about how we collect information and about information that is of
unique value to our decision makers by publishing as much as we can in
an unclassified form.
Perhaps the principal problem we have today with keeping secrets
is that we have too many of them. And when you have too many, people
do not respect them. So by narrowing the corpus of classified information
I hope to engender greater respect for that which remains and protect it
much better.
The lack of respect today is typified for instance by the number
of people who have decided to take it upon themselves unilaterally to
release what could well be classified secretive information. They write
stories, they write books, they give interviews, they say things they should
not say, often violating contracts with us to be sure that they don't release
information of a classified nature.
I think we have come to the point in this country where the public
should no longer be quite so willing to welcome these disclosures which
are often made in the guise or in the name of stopping those of us in
the government from doing heinous things that we are accused of doing.
I think that if we carry this trend to its logical extreme, you have to say
that each one of the 215 million Americans in this country is empowered
to decide what secrets the country should have and what secrets the
country should release. And that could be nothing but chaos in the long run.
The time has come to put some more faith and trust in the elected public
officials and not start at least from the presumption that we're only out
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to obscure things and cover up our mistakes,
Now I'm not really going to ask you just to take us on faith or trust
because a third trend in American intelligence today protects the citizen
of this country in many ways. It's a trend toward greater oversight. Now
when you consider that I've pointed out that we must keep a great many
secrets, it's clear that we cannot have full public oversight of our activities.
Instead, out of the crucible of three years of intense public criticism of some
past abuses in the intelligence world, we have today forged a process
of surrogate public oversight of our intelligence mechanism.
Let me describe a couple of those surrogates for you. The first
is the President and the Vice President, who today take a very active,
intense interest in our intelligence activities. I report to the President
weekly. He is well abreast of what we are doing and gives me complete
guidance.
But on top of that, two years ago we established an Intelligence
Oversight Board -- three distinguished Americans: former Senator Gore
from your near-neighboring state of Tennessee; former Governor Scranton
of Pennsylvania; and a Mr. Tom Farmer of Washington, D. C. These
three gentlemen report only to the President of the United States. Their
only function is to oversee the legality, the propriety of our intelligence
activities. Anyone in the intelligence community, any public citizen may
communicate with them and say, "Look, I think something's going wrong.''
Or, "I think some information ought to be published that isn't being published. "
They will consider that complaint and report to the President what they
think should be done about it. It's a good release valve.
But on top of that, in the Congress we have created two committees--
one in the Senate, one in the House of Representatives -- also to oversee the
intelligence process. These committees do a superb job of that. They
have me up there regularl We're ver forthright with them. We keep
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them well informed. But at the slightest indication of some problem, some
question as to what we're doing, they ask us for a report and we come
up and explain it.
I think that these processes today give much greater assurance
than existed in the past that we are not off running things on our own,
doing things in the intelligence world that the American public would not
support, or that are not in conformance with American foreign policy.
I think here are mechanisms to which those people called whistle
blowers have an opportunity to go, and I would respect their whistle-blowing
much more if they would try the authorized, the established oversight
procedures first before they take t/upon themselves to release information
that should be kept private.
Out of this oversight process, I want to be honest with you, we
are encountering risks. There is the risk that as you tell more and more
people about your intelligence process, there will be more and more leaks.
There is the risk that as you recognize that you're going to have to tell
people about things, you may get timid and not undertake risks that you
should take in the interest of our country. We must be careful that we
don't have so much oversight that we have intelligence by timidity, and lack
of intelligence by virtue of too many leaks.
I think we are working out a proper balance between this, in
protecting the citizens of this country on the one hand through good
oversight in insuring that our intelligence activities are in consonance with
our national objectives and aims, and on the other hand, preserving enough
privacy of the intelligence process that it can go on in an effective manner
as is so necessary for our country's security.
As a result of these several trends that I've mentioned to you ?.~
which I believe are dramatically reshaping the intelligence process in this
countAri rovetsPo?WAease1Q06b4ff'170 IC _RDP _6'13qgRUUU700 d0 1?-Sel of intelligence,
a new and unique model of intelligence -- last January the President of the
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United States directed a modest reorganization of our intelligence activities.
And he did so by trying to go back in many ways to the original Intelligence
Act of 1947 which established a Director of Central Intelligence to coordi-
nate all of the intelligence activities of our nation.
I hold this position. Its a separate position from my role as
Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. And in January the President
modestly strengthened the authorities of the Director of Central Intelligence,
giving him authority over the budgets of all of our national intelligence
organizations; giving him authority to do what I call tasking -- directing
the agencies of intelligence that collect information to be sure that we
are using them to best advantage and we are using them in a teamwork
fashion; not helter skelter; not letting things drop between the cracks;
not duplicating and spending additional or unnecessary resources; arid,
finally, additional authority to insure that the other half of intelligence
besides collecting information
-- the half which is analyzing it, studying it,
drawing conclusions from it -- is also well coordinated.
But here I'd like to make one point. While I can coordinate the
intelligence analysis, I cannot direct people outside of the Central Intelligence
Agency on how to do that analysis. We want independent views coming
forward from the Defense Department, the State Department, the Treasury
and others, because no one is so anart in intelligence as to be able to put
all the pieces of the puzzle together exactly right. And you need different
opinions coming forward so the decision makers will be able to judge
what the strengths and the weaknesses of an intelligence analysis are.
And, finally, the President directed something new and important
in establishing a committee of the National Security Council which oversees
the entire intelligence operation and gives me my marching orders as to
what the priorities are by which we should be working ..< the point being
that IApprove door Releasel70~4h]1 Rflt6Ti4-4BP8>I3' 3 ` 0B0i '453'6'~b91 8 of intelligence;
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and this committee is composed of the Secretary of State, the Secretary
of Defense, the Secretary of the Treasury, the National Security Council
Adviser to the President -- the people who know what we need and can
tell me and give me that overall guidance and direction.
I sincerely believe that these new trends that I've described to you,
and a few others I haven't had time for, and these new orders of the
President, are strengthening our capabilities in the intelligence field,
and I do believe we are the best intelligence service in the world. And
at the same time, they are also strengthening the assurances to this country
that we are performing our functions in ways that will protect the rights
of individuals and the values of American society.
I assure you that I am dedicated to maintaining us as the number
one intelligence service in the world and doing so in ways that will only
support and defend our wonderful democratic institutions. Thank you
very much.
(Applause)
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: Thank you, Admiral Turner, for that
exposition on our intelligence activities. As laymen it certainly impresses
upon us the enormity of the task; but I think, more importantly, the
sensitivity of the Administration through this effort.
We have a number of questions and I'll try to group a .few which
I think fall under similar headings. The first is:
(Reading Question) "WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A
FREE SOCIETY AND UNDERCOVER INTELLIGENCE?
And related to that:
(Reading Question) "HOW CAN WE HAVE A DEPENDABLE INTELLI-
GENCE SYSTEM UNDER PRESENT CONDITIONS OF MASS MEDIA
EXPOSURES, POLITICAL INTERFERENCE AND DISCLOSURES AND THREATS
OF LK6f-4ACJR4/gG6W'88-01315R000200430001-8
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ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: There is an inherent contradiction
between having an open and free democratic society and having to maintain
a certain number of secrets in the process of conducting the international
affairs of that society
there's no question about it.
The world is such today that most of the nations of the world are
not blessed by the wonderful openness of our society, and we must be able
to maintain an intelligence capability to know what's going on in some of those
other societies whose actions have such daily and direct import on you and
me, our taxes, our national policies and programs.
You reconcile the need for secrecy in a democratic society by
establishing the checks and counter checks that I've mentioned to you today,
to be sure that on the one hand you can maintain the secrets, and on the
other hand that no one abuses that privilege. We have to have them, but we
have to have enough oversight, enough checks to be sure that it is not
abused. I believe we are achieving that balance today.
I believe what I've asked you for today is also a little understanding;
that people who run to the press with things that should not be released
should not necessarily be acclaimed as heroes right off the bat. Some
of them are doing it out of great patriotism and motives; some of them are
doing it in a self-serving way. But we have now established procedures
for them to voice their complaints, to release their information, which
gives the people of this country some check, some assurance that it's not
being done to the detriment of our national interests. I hope they will
use that and that we will all encourage them to use that.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: (Reading Question) "ARE YOU SATIS-
FIED THAT YOU STILL HAVE THE KIND OF AUTHORITY AND
ORGANIZATION THAT CAN DO A GOOD JOB OF INTELLIGENCE
WORLDWIDE? "
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ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: Yes, I definitely am; in part because
the additions to my authority that the President has recently given me;
in part because in addition to the standard form of collecting intelligence
that goes back as far as history -- the human intelligence agents, the
spies -?> we have a preeminence in the world in what we call technical
means of collecting intelligence.
And these have been burgeoning over recent years and providing
for us just vastly increasing quantities of data. They have not outmoded
the old traditional human intelligence agents; they have, in fact, accented
their importance because from a technical system of collecting intelligence
you generally learn what happened yesterday, and then when I produce
that information to a policymaker, he says: "But why did that happen
and what's going to happen tomorrow?" And finding out what people are
thinking and what their plans are is the role of the intelligence agent.
So today the challenge to us -- and it's an exciting one .- is
to bring this together in a complementary fashion, to insure that we fill
the gaps that can't be filled by human agents, by technical means; and
that with human agents we fill the gaps that can't be filled with technical
means. It's a new form of production line for us and a very, very
demanding one.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: (Reading Question) "CAN YOU HAVE
YOUR AGENTS INTERFERE IN POLITICS IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES?"
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: The question that gets us or has
got us into the most trouble in the past is what we call political action --
interfering in the politics or other activities of foreign nations. This
is not an intelligence activity. It is a political action. It has been
assigned by this government as an adjunct to the responsibilities of the
Central Intelligence Agency ever since it was founded in 1947. It is
theA9R6WC[9R(PAWgi !0fIa1~bf c$?FAl?4 ROQ, 04 3 e t years these
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activities have been placed under very strict controls. Before we can
interfere in the politics or other activities of any other country, we
must today gain approval of the National Security Council, the signature
of the President of the United States, and I must inform the appropriate
committees of the Congress of what we are doing. So we have two
branches of the government involved in this as a check and a balance,
and there's just no way, without violating the law, that I can go charging
off and direct any interference in other countries' political activities.
And, I can assure you, I have no desire to go to jail.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: (Reading Question) "WHAT IS THE
INTERNAL ATTITUDE OF THE C.I.A. CONCERNING AGENTS SUCH AS
JAMES AGEE AND OTHERS WHO HAVE EXPOSED C. I. A. OPERATIONS
UPON THEIR LEAVING THE AGENCY?"
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: We're all very disappointed that people
who have assumed the responsibilities of working in our intelligence
agencies would be as irresponsible as this when they leave. Mr. Agee
has done very severe damage to our intelligence operations. He has taken,
for instance, an individual who has worked for us for 10, 15, 20 years --
worked at great personal sacrifice to himself by being undercover; he
does not acknowledge, maybe to his family even, that he works for the
Central Intelligence Agency. And, I can assure you, that is not done
easily and is not done without sacrifice. For instance, this man may
have climbed up in our organization and have a position of great responsi-
bility and have to pretend that he's working for somebody else in a position
of much lesser importance. And what do his children think of his stature?
Why didn't father get promoted? Why didn't he advance like others, and
so on. And yet after all these years of that sacrifice, Agee will publish
this man's name in a book and in many ways reduce his usefulness to us;
hurtAAi*oe d'ForRRtt,%is /11101 :a Q4RpRa8-9tat RQQQ20d 43QO -;8 to progress
within the Central Intelligence Agency because of some irresponsible
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individual like this. I think it's most unfortunate.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: (Reading Question) "DOES OR. DID THE
UNITED STATES HAVE SOME C.I.A. CONTRAPTION HIGH IN THE
MOUNTAINS OF ASIA? AND IF, IN FACT, T HERE IS A NUCLEAR
MONITORING DEVICE ON INDIAN TERRITORY, IS SUCH AN UNAUTHORI-
ZED INVASION OF ANOTHER COUNTRY'S SOVEREIGNTY CONSIDERED
JUSTIFIABLE PRACTICE BY OUR INTELLIGENCE AGENCY?"
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: One of the most difficult things about
being in the intelligence business with this combination of openness and
secrecy is that often we can't defend ourselves against false accusations
because if I comment on this particular alleged activity, then I 'm in
a spot if I don't comment on the next one. And it just leaves you in a
very vulnerable condition, so we have to take a policy of never commenting
on alleged or actual past or ongoing intelligence operations.
I wish I could do better for you. But Joe pointed out to me at
lunch, it's like somebody asking him: "Are you really trying to take
over Marshall Fields with a merger or something like that? " (Laughter)
You know, you just can't, in his position either, comment sometimes
on that because if you say no to one, then you're in a spot if the
next one has a true answer of yes. You can't say no when you need to,
to keep things private. So I'm afraid I can't answer that question, Joe.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: Nor can I the other one. (Laughter)
(Reading Question) "WHAT IS THE C. I. A. IS POSITION ON THE
DEFECTION OF THE SENIOR SOVIET UN-[TED NATIONS EXECUTIVE?"
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: The CIA's position is that this is
one of the most delicate of diplomatic and political problems and that it
is entirely in the hands of the Secretary of State, and I'm not going to
muck up the waters by commenting on his problems. (Laughter)
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JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: (Reading Question ) "DO YOU HAVE
A GROUP OF PARAMILITARY PEOPLE TRAINED TO GO TO THE AID
OF AMERICANS THAT MIGHT BE HELD FOR RANSOM ABROAD BY A
TERRORIST GROUP?"
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: The answer is no, but the answer
is that the President has directed the Secretary of Defense to establish
such a capability. It is in being and will be very effective in due course.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: (Reading Question) "WHAT IS YOUR
OPINION OF THE PANAMA CANAL TREATIES AS THEY AFFECT OUR
MILITARY STRENGTH? "
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: One of the principles of being an
intelligence officer is, you stay absolutely clear of policy. And that's
really a very important point because if I ever become associated with
a pro-Panama Canal Treaty, or an anti-Panama Canal Treaty, position,
from then on any intelligence I produce on that kind of a subject is
suspect. And we must scrupulously keep ourselves clear of expressing
opinions on policy matters in order to preserve the objectivity which
is essential to good intelligence.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: (Reading Question) "DO YOU AGREE
WITH THE 'PUNISHMENT' GIVEN RICHARD HELMS, AND WOULD YOU
TRY TO SUPPRESS THE PROSECUTION OF C. I. A. AGENTS FOR ILLEGAL
ACTIVITIES, AS RECENTLY FIAPPENED WITH THE FORMER F.B.I.
DIRECTOR? "
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: The solution of the Helms case was
one that worked out very well from my point of view. On the one hand,
had he been prosecuted it would have been necessary -- both for the
prosecution and certainly for the defense -- to disclose a great quantity
of highly classified information. It would not have been fair not to
have done so had the prosecution proceeded. It would have hurt our
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country's interests in many respects.
On the other hand, the process through which Mr. Helms went was
a poignant reminder to all of us in the government, and particularly
in the intelligence world, that none of us stand above the law. The
law of the United States of America is the governing factor in all of our
activities and we have no license, no excuse for violating it in any
respect, nor do I have any intention of trying to exonerate or in any way
get off the charges of the law anybody in our organization who violates
it. They know that. They have to live up to it.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: (Reading Question) "IS THERE MUCH
POSSIBILITY THAT THE TERRORISM PLAGUING EUROPE AND THE
MID-EAST COULD SPREAD TO THE UNITED STATES?"
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: There's always that possibility.
But I think the country has a good record in highjacking and terrorism
because of the precautions we have taken at our airports and elsewhere;
because of the attitude of our people in supporting the law enforcement
agencies in that type of activity; and because we, being a free society
where dissent can be voiced, don't have the same impetus to this kind
of activity. But it is a danger and one to which we all must be. continually
alert.
And I would say that we in the intelligence world, as I briefly
mentioned, are spending a great deal of effort in keeping track, as best we
can through our sources, through our liaison with other friendly intelligence
agencies, of international terrorist activity. And I'm proud to tell you
that in a number of instances it has been our information that has thwarted
some international terrorist plans that have been maturing -< not in this
country but elsewhere
and we think that that's a valuable service and
we intend to continue doing the best we can to help out here.
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JOSEPH L. HUDSON, JR.: (Reading Question) "PEARL HARBOR
AND THE BAY OF PIGS WERE TREMENDOUS FIASCOES OF THE
INTELLIGENCE-COLLECTING AGENCIES, CAN THIS HAPPEN AGAIN?',
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: The honest answer is yes. The
other answer is that we are doing everything we can to prevent that.
We're human, , were fallible. We're trying to insure, as I brought out
in some of my remarks, that differing views on what the trends or likely
developments in different world sitations are do come forward. If you
suppress the minority view when it's reasonably well reasoned and set
forth, you're doing a great disservice and you're inviting the possibility
of overlooking some potential problem such as the Bay of Pigs or Pearl
Harbor.
In short, one of the real challenges in the intelligence world is
constantly to question your hypotheses. Are you making the same
assumption over and over again? You know, the Arabs will never increase
the price of oil. Or, the Arabs will never attack Israel. Or, the
Japanese will never attack Pearl Harbor. Or, whatever the assumption
may be that seems so true. You've got to constantly probe and ask that.
I can't guarantee you we won't make a mistake again, but I will guarantee
you we're trying our darnedest to avoid it.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON,, JR.: This is the last question.
(Reading Question) "DO YOU THINK THERE ARE ANY SOVIET
AGENTS IN THE AUDIENCE REPORTING ON YOU TODAY?" (Laughter)
ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER: Is there a Soviet Consul General
in Detroit? I frequently find the Soviet representatives when I talk.
I mentioned the 100-and--some unclassified publications. Anyone of
you~an write the Library of Congress and subscribe to our annual product
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 Approved For Release 2004/11/01: CrA-WbP88-01315R000200430001-8
of unclassified studies for $225. And I would just let you know that
the Soviet Union is spending $450 in that department. (Laughter)
I jts t happened to look at the list the other day.
But I'm not giving away secrets today. I'm trying to be as open,
as forthright with you as I can. And I'm doing it sincerely in the
interest of keeping the American public informed, and in that process
generating this greater respect for what must be kept secretive.
And I'm working very hard in both directions >- openness on the one hand
and tighter secrecy on the other. That which must remain secret must
be kept secret. All that can possibly be made available must be made
available.
I'm so grateful to you for being here and wanting to hear about
this today. It's your support that will determine the future of our
intelligence activities in this country, and I sincerely believe they are more
important to our country today -- in an era of near military parity;
in an era of political and economic interdependence with so many other
countries of the world ..- than they ever have been before when we had
great superiority in all of these fields. You need the insights, the leverage
of good information in order to make right decisions. And we need your
support in that activity. Thank you.
'(Applause)
ADJOURNMENT
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 Approved For Release 2004/11/01: CIA-RDP88-6
28 April 1978
Mr. Russel A. Swaney
The ECOno,ic Club of Detroit
920 Free Press Building
Detroit, Michigan 48226
Dear Mr. Swaney:
Admiral Turner has asked me to thank you
for your letter of April. 18th. We are working
to edit the speech and will be returning it
to you in a few days. We also very much
appreciate the tear sheets from the Detroit
newspapers.
The Admiral is very grateful for the warm
reception he received and for your hospitality.
Many thanks.
Sincerely,
Herbert E. Hetu
be
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 ARTICLE APPZARrEi3.
ON PAGE proved For ReleTaide 2D04WS '!D'cI: i$ 9W f3' 5R00020430Q01}$1
27 April 1978
CIA.ma extend
its services
to businessmen
Detroit
CIA director Stanfield Turner says his
agency is ready to expand intelligence activi-
ties to nonmilitary areas, providing its services
to business and giving taxpayers "a better re-
turn on their investment."
Prior to speaking recently to the Economic
Club of Detroit, Mr. Turner told reporters the
CIA is increasing its collection of. economic
and political data that could be of value to
businessmen and other nongovernmental
groups.
"We want to share what information we col-
lect when it can be unclassified," he told a
news conference. "For example, there is eco-
nomic and political information that we can
collect that would be of value to American
businessmen.
"The CIA can be open in only one direction
sharing information. The more you release,
the less you have to protect. And it gives the
taxpayers a better return on their in-
vestment."
Mr. Turner said the Soviet Union, while con-
centrating heavily on maintaining an extensive
spy network, has fallen seriously behind the
United States in the technical aspects of in-
telligence.
He said satellites and other devices have en-
hanced the agency's ability to gather informa-
.tion worldwide, but have not reduced the CIA's
need for personnel.
"We now have an increased demand for the
human element; ' he said. "We use the tech-
nology to collect information, but we.need the
traditional human agent to know what some-
one's plans and intentions are."
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 Approved For Release 2004/11/01: CIA-RDP88-01315R00010d446b'1- 7 r
20 April 1978
&S_ t-+c- dom.... j ~3 zv
By SHIRLEE IDEN
There's a "gone with the wind" sy 1
drome at work in the United States
that Frank Snepp doesn't like at all.
"When it comes to Vietnam, we'd
like to think it happened 100 years
ago," he said.
"The problem with that is, if we do
forget, we might do it again. We
almost did in Angola and I believe
we'd be deeply involved there today if
it weren't for the lessons of Vietnam."
For Snepp, an ex-CIA agent, the
author of a book on the American
evacuation of Saigon called "Decent
Interval" and the subject of a long
interview in the May edition of Pen-
thouse magazine, his own experience
there and subsequent events have
made it impossible to forget.
A trim, youthful man, neatly dressed
in a dark brown suit and striped shirt,
Snepp told how he served almost five;
years in Vietnam as an officer of the;
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). He;
was the. agency's chief strategic ana-
lyst in the Saigon section. Following
his two tours there, the CIA gave him
their Medal of Merit for his perform-I
ance.
He was born in Charlotte, N.C., som
of a former Marine who is now a supe
rior court judge.. He worked in radio
and on newspapers and graduated
from Columbia University. He earned.
a master's degree in . internationa
relations there.
"WHEN I was about to graduate in
1968, one of my professors recruited
me for the CIA," he said. "I hadn't!
known he was an agent but he'd been!
watching me. One of the reasons hel
gave. for joining was to avoid the.
draft." ,
Snepp thus-joined the CIA to avor
going to Vietnam andended by serving
almost five years theme. He was in Sai-
gon when the end came on April 29,
1975 and he was one of the last Ameri-
"I was hauled owplwved lbitl
embassy onto a helicopter and shot at
all the way up," he recalled.
011
Snepp said the government, particu- Six months after he returned to this
larly Henry -Kissinger, had "impec- country, in January 1976, Snepp;
cable intelligence" that the commun-, resigned from the CIA. He had decided;
ists would move into Saigon in force to become a whistle blower.
and there would be no negotiated set The writing and emergence of
tlement. -"Decent Interval" (published in
_ 1
"Yet Kissinger and the government; November 1977) was as secretive as
turned their backs on that intelligence' any CIA undertaking. The publisher
and it was tragic. They forgot to plan, (Random House) went to great efforts
for the evacuation of our friends andi to- insure no leaks.- there was no
ultimately, the leave-taking became a advance publicity and book reviewers
free-for-all," he said. got their copies about the same time
Snepp estimates that 30,000 Vietnam- the CIA bought its copies.
ese had been trained by U.S. agencies
including the CIA and they were just SNEPP'S publisher moved secretly
cut off and massacred by the incoming! with the book because of being burned }
communist armies. before. They dealt with the CIA when.,
"Some young embassy officers and! publishing Victor Marchetti's book,
others mounted their own evacuations "The CIA and the Cult of
Ming cargo planes and they got-thou- Intelligence." The agency managed to:
sands of people out," he said. "130,000 delay its publication for more than two
were finally evacuated but the years and imposed their right to alter;
embassy was' only responsible for the text. Legal costs alone were nearly
about half of those saved. The U.S. $150,000 to-Random House.
government never admits this." The secrecy surrounding the evolu-1
lion of Snepp's book is the only secret,
MANY OF those who were not saved thing about it, he says.
were people Snepp knew well. And "I didn't reveal any classified infor-i
even today he explains: "Over 100,000 mation and I haven't been accused of I
boat people are afloat on the ocean this," he said.
trying to find a country to take them in Nevertheless, he is accused of
or crammed into hellholes called 'refu- breach of contract with the Justice
gee camps' in Thailand.. Congress Department, which has filed suit .
should liberalize the immigration against him. Random House has been
restrictions." subpoenaed.
__R acrid_thA inistration has just, Snepp is accused of having breached
made a statement which he endorses the secrecy agreement that every which will admit 25,000 boat people agent signs on joining the CIA.
and other refugees into this country "When I resolved to write my book, i
each. year. I decided not to dear it with the
"We owe them this and they should agency..I felt the CIA had forefeited
be helped." their right to' review it,,, he said.
The anguish of the evacuation and: "There aren't any secrets in it and I }
its tragic overtones moved Snepp to ! went through channels while still a
write . "Decent Interval," but other member of the CIA. I wanted to do an
incidents following compelled him to after-action report, but it was
write it. squelched." .
In his opinion, these incidents added Snepp said the most ominous part of
up to a concerted, calculated cover-up the legal moves against him is that the
of the true facts of the evacuation. He ! government wants to charge him with
said he saw top ranking CIA officials ; a breach of fiduciary obligation.
leas"404616i6'theiZl4 f Of3",,0002 3000~14mmdn law concept of
pullout. the obligation of a servant to his mas.
ter," he said- -
 Approved For Release 200411/ I~l 88-01315R00020~A4,D60< -8`' z~.
Whether vie like it or'not, a democracy cannot
survive without a good intelligence service. People
who gather secret information are the eyes of
those who make decisions. A President deprived of
secretly-gathered foreign intelligence would be a
blind man in the conduct of foreign affairs.
In his speech to the Economic Club of Detroit,
Adm. Stansfield Turner, director of the CIA, made
a conscious - and credible - effort-,a gef that
point across.
The admiral and his people are trying to win
back the U.S. public support for the agency which
has been in such bad odor in recent years.
..The public was turned off by disclosures of CIA
conduct, some of it clearly illegal, during the
Watergate period. The functions of the agency
were abused by people in power.
.In that time of national recrimination, some peo-
ple went to the extreme of suggesting the agency
be disbanded and that the country-get out of the
shady spy business altogether.
Thus, "clandestine" Lecaine a dirty word.
The admiral, in his Detroit speech, said the CIA
has developed technological spying to its highest
degree ever and most military information is now
gathered by satellites capable of taking incredibly
detailed photographs on a regular basis.
But, said the admiral, a satellite cannot tell the
agency what people are thinking in Moscow or
Peking or elsewhere. There remains a need for
agents who gather information to enable U.S. ex
perts to suggest answers to such questions.
The admiral concedes that there is a conflict in
a society as open as this one over the public de-
mand for disclosure and the intelligence need for
secrecy. But, Turner argues, the country still has
to have secret information to survive.
The CIA has always been efficient at gathering
economic information overseas. Much of this is
now being offered to the public and it is useful to
businessmen and scholars.
The agency is therefore offering a visible benefit
to the public, something tangible for the money
spent on the agency. This kind of service will help
rebuild public confidence in the CIA. .
But, important as this is, the reports published
openly by the CIA do not satisfy the agency's most
critical function, which is to find out ,what is likely
to hit the country, militarily,-before the blow is
struck.
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 (V7
DETROIT NEWS C' l4 S? 'S
Approved For Release 200411'r lpl4 J l P88-01315R000200430001-8
f eA/- ~ T
G f Ca I ~, rU ' . c. t
J
(a t ~ ?-
.In defense of intelli. n- ce'
nether we like it or not, a democracy cannot gathered by satellites capable of taking incredibly
survive without a good intelligence service. People detailed photographs on a regular basis. ?
who gather secret information are the eyes of But, said the admiral, a satellite cannot tell the
those who make decisions. A President deprived of agency what people are thinking in Moscow or
secretly-gathered foreign intelligence would be a Peking or elsewhere. There- remains: a need for
blind man in the conduct of foreign affairs. agents who gather information to enable U.S. ex-
In his speech to the Economic Club of Detroit,
S f ld Turner director of the CIA made
t
d
,. perts to suggest answers to such questions.
The admiral concedes that there is a conflict in
ans ie , -
A
m.
a conscious - and credible =effort to get that;: a society as open as this one over the public de
point across. wand for disclosure and the intelligence need for'
The admiral andhis people are to secrecy. But, Turner argues, the country still has
tryuig tivin:=? "; -- ..
back the U.S. public support for the agency which = to have secret information to survive. ;,.. ,
Th CIA h 1 b ffi ' -
t
t
th
has been in such bad odor in recent years.
The public was turned off by disclosures of CIA
conduct, some of it clearly illegal, during the
Watergate period. The functions of the. agency
were abused by people in power.:".
In that time of national recrimination, some peo-
ple went to the extreme of suggesting the- agency
be disbanded and that the country get out of the
shady spy business altogether...
Thus, "clandestine" became a dirty word.
The admiral; in his Detroit speech, said the CIA
has developed technological spying to its highest
degree ever and most military information is now
as a ways een a den
ga
erusg
a
economic information overseas.. Much of this is
now being offered to the public and it is useful to
businessmen and scholars.:
The agency is therefore offering a visible benefit
to the public, something tangible for the money
spent on the agency. This kind of service will help
rebuild public confidence in the CIA.
But, important as,this is, the reports published
openly by the CIA do not satisfy the agency's most ;
critical function, which is to find out what is likely
to hit the country, militarily, before the blow is
struck. , . . .....
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 Approved For Release 2Oa4/[1WI' I IR1-RM:CB8 OIS15R000200430b0 I+8 ,
15 April 1978
C I.
nare Ris JFa ie
CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
Director Stansfield Turner gave further evi-
dence of his agency's new and more open look
when he told Detroit's Economic Club the
other day that the CIA wants to share its
intelligence information with the public.
"There is economic and political informa-
tion that we can collect that would be of value
to American businessmen," he said, and added
that the CIA is prepared to expand its
intelligence activities into non-military areas i
that might give taxpayers "a better return on I
.their investment."
Later, in Columbus, he said the old modus
operandi of keeping CIA work secret "is no
longer the policy because the public wants to
know. We will be speaking more, answering
_the media more completely and publishing
more." ?
And in an address at Ohio State University,
he said: "We hope the academic community
can gain from intelligence. We need the
relations with the academic community be-
cause the lifeblood of intelligence is the annual
infusion of a few good, high-quality persons
from the campus."
GItANTED TJJAT much of what Turner
states may be attributed to rhetorical image-
building on behalf of his embattled agency.
Still, the promise to share intelligence gains
with those in this country outside the military
and governmental community who might
benefit from it, is constructive and overdue.
No other organization in the United States
has the formidable facilities for sheer collec-
tion of information that the CIA does with its
electronic devices, its high-flying planes, infra-
red cameras and assorted language and politi-
cal experts and grey eminences..
TURNER NOTED THAT through the use
of satellites there is a good, deal of data
available about possible oil and energy re-
serves, crop, projections and industrial poten-
tial and that the CIA, as a public-funded
agency, should share such information on a
lar er scal
C, (A
c-C)( 1 ~/t
I`/GC
v29 t al Sqz._; 6
.
p
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This hind of talk rve are hpp to sa
doesn't sound like the sinister cloak-and-dagge
 Approved For Release 2004/11/01 : CIA-RDP88-01315 ff00.02Q04 000T&.
1
0t-v",4
OAKLAND TR 3UN
U (C c, n
14 April 1978
v---~
G
C.--1.-
DETROIT. (UPI) - CIA Di-
rector Stansfield Turner- said
yesterday his agency is ready to,.-.
expand intelligence activities- to
nonmilitary areas to provide its
services to business and give
taxpayers "a better return-. on
their investment."
Prior to speaking to the- Ec"o--
nomic Club of Detroit, Turner
told reporters the CIA is in-
creasing , ??
its- collection of " eco-
nomic and political information
that could be of value. to busi-
nessmen and other nongovern-
mental groups.
"We want to share what infor-
mation we collect when it can
be unclassified,"'-Turner told; a
news conference.. "For example,
there is economic--and.?political
information- that we can collect
that would be of value to,Amer-
can businessmen. -
"The CIA -can be opeq in only
one direction -sharing infor-
mation, The more you release,
the less you have to protect. And
it gives: the taxpayers-'?a better
return-on- their investment."
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 rS'i,E .PP JAR wASHjT.~GTCN CTAP. (GREEN LINE)
C (,4 (_6 I T /'J c~_,
p +, PAGE proved For Releas2Q94/M/019 PA-RDP88-01315R00020@WOI0~1-8~',.-,,,,,,,,,,
o S L, .
Give Taxpayers 'Better Return'
Tu-Mer Wan-'is CIA to
n te' icze n ce
' United Preis Internatiom! . ;
In a clear departure from the tight-
lipped approach of his. predecessors.
CIA Director Stanfield Turner has
expressed a desire to share intelli-
gence information with the public.
He also promised that the CIA will be
talking more.
"We want to. share what informa-
tion we collect when it can be unclas-
sified," Turner told groups in Colum-
bus., Ohio, and Detroit yesterday-
"For example, there is economic
and political information that we can
collect that would be of value to
American businessmen." he told the
Economic Club of Detroit.
He said the CIA is ready to expand
its intelligence activities to non-mili-
tary areas that could give taxpayers
"a better return on their invest-
ment."
IN COLUMBUS last night, Turner
said the tradition of keeping CIA
work secret "is no longer the policy
because the public wants to know.
We will be speaking more, answering
the media more completely, and pub-
lishing more."
Turner said the Soviet Union, while
concentrating heavily on maintaining
an extensive spy network, has fallen
seriously behind the United States in
the technical aspects of intelligence.
He said satellites and other devices
have enhanced the CIA's ability to
gather information on a global scale,
but have not reduced the need. for
personnel.
"We now have an increased de-
mand for the human element,"
Turner said. "We use the technology
to collect information, but we need
the traditional human agent to know
what someone's plans and intentions
are."
"WE HOPE THE academic com-
munity munity can gain from intelligence,'.
Turner said in an address at Ohio
State University. "We need the rela-
tions with the academic community
because the lifeblood of intelligence
is the annual infusion of a few good
high quality persons from the cam- t
pus," he said. "It's a demanding and
exciting profession."
He said he is confident that out of
the new trends, "we are building a
strong intelligence community, the
best in the world."
Turner has testified before con-
gressional committees that the CIA
now is accumulating so much infor-
mation through modern technical
means it shouid be shared with the
nation's industrialists, academics,
economists and businessmen.
He said that through satellites
there are great amounts of informa-
tion about potential oil and energy re-
serves, crop perspectives and indus-
trial expansion, and that the CIA, as
a public-funded agency, should share
such information on a wider scale.
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 DETROi.T FREE PRESS f. +~
1~4 ~ 78
Approved For Release. 2004/11/6 : 6fA- ~ 8-01315R00020U43681v -8'
By E-t;C SHARP
Free Press Staff Writer
Looking more like a friendly college professor than Amer-
ica's head spy, Adm. Stansfield Turner, director of the CIA,
smilingly sidestepped all the juicy stuff Thursday.
Did the CIA really lose a nuclear spying device up in the
Himalaya :Mountains 13 years ago and avoid telling the Indian
government about it?
No comment, Turner replied.
Did the CIA have any involvement with Russia's top United
Nations employe, Arkady Schevchenko, who left his job last
week over differences with his government and is in seclusion
in New York?
"I am not confirming or denying what you say," Turner
answered.
What does the CIA think of President Carter's decision
against deploying the neutron bomb in the near future?
That's another area we can't go into, Turner said.
TURNER WAS IN DETROIT to address a meeting of the
Economic Ciub at Cobo Hail. At a pre-luncheon press confer-
ence, a question-and-answer session with a group of college
students and his after-lunch address, he ran into the major
problem for all intelligence officials: You can't talk about a lot
of your work until it has evolved from current events to
history.
Outside magazine recently published a report that CIA
expedition to India lost the nuclear-powered device, intended
to monitor atom tests in China. Turner said comment might
compromise the identities of people involved or jeopardize
covert agreements between nations.
He said he Schevchenko case Is one of the most delicate
diplomatic situations" the State Deaprtment faces and "I am
not about to muddy the waters."
TURNER STRESSED repeatedly that he believed the United
States had the world's best intelligence network and is far
ahead of the Soviets in the technical inteiligenceiield, ranging
from computers to spy satellites.
He noted that the CIA has come through three years of
scathing criticism and outside examination and he feels the
agency has been strengthened by that experience.
"I think that sometimes in the past we in the intelligence -
community got a little remote from the attitudes and standards
of the country," Turner said. . - ? - -
He said the CIA is now subject to "surrogate"s nspection by
the president, Congress and an intelligence watchdog board,
who insure for the public that the agency does not exceed the
bounds of law.
Turner said that covert political meddling In the Internal
affairs of other nations was now under the strictcontrol of the
president and that assassination as a tool of foreign policy had
been outlawed absolutely.
JOSEPH L. HUDSON 311, presiding officerattheEconomic
Club luncheon, expressed the confusion many Americans teel
about their country's foreign policy by saying itis "difficult to
understand the introduction of Soviet troops in Ethiopia and
Angola and at the same time be told that detente is upon as and ,
the SALT talks are moving along well." - -
"So much of what we do, so much of what welearn must be
kept secret in the national interest," Turner said.He added that
the public "should not be too quick to make hereos of" former i
CIA agents who have wri ten accounts of their:r:tivities
G i j .Z CC :] N O ''rU.+_c ~1 b
S e u 1
cIL4
Km~Y
C' I' 4- -r- n+Qi&
Turner In Detroit
sometlmea In the peat we'
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dkV 1,
smote..." :, _
 Approved For Release 2004/11/01 : CIA-RDP88-01315R00020Q430O1-8v
DETROIT NEWS
14 April 1978 C~?< i-v I ~r ~r~FYu.
its limits
1 ST P1'EN ~CA94
~39ws Staff 1Vrit+r
Adm. Stanfield Turner, director of the
CIA, was in Detroit yesterday to drum up
support for the agency and its new gospel
of openness. .
But he ended up illustrating the limits
of candor by refusing to comment on the
nuclear-powered monitoring device his
predecessors allegedly left on an Indian
mountaintop.
"Often,. we can't defend ourselves
against false accusations . Turner replied
yesterday when asked about a magazifa
report that CIA agents lost a device con-
taining highly radioactive plutonium 233
in the Himalayan Mountains 13 years ago.
"If I comment, I am'vulnerable when
?gsr ~.'Yrme y.ac w~
NEWS F'I-7C1TC-+!AFCt.D P.C87Na4W
VA 3 i1E MG FOR DETROIT-A EA TEENS - Three high school students, guests of the Economic Club for
Adm. Stansfield Turner's appearance yesterday, chat with the CIA director. The students (from left) are Kathy
Monarch, of Lincoln High School; Robert Rockwell, of Mott Senior High School, and Kathy's sister, Andrea. The
-=Economic Club regularly invites high school students to its speaking luncheons.
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 INESd 'ORE' rr.T
Cl:. t: G
- d For Release 200 1 i C '- Pgg-trW1315R000~OgggOQ9-p 6I(1
A4-Qvp- 1/p
Detroit (UPI) - CIA Director
Stansfield Turner said yesterday that
his agency is ready to expand intelli-
gence activities to nonmilitary areas,
providing its services to business and
giving taxpayers "a b.,ter return on
their investment."
Prior to soeal:ing to the Economic
Club of Detroit, Turner told reporters
that the CIA is increasing its collection
of economic and political information
that could be of value to businessmen
and other nongovernmental groups.
"We want to share what information
we collect when it can be unclassified,"
Turner told reporters.
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 Approved For Release 2004/11/01: CIA-RDP88-01315R000200430001-8
Mr . -Dwight,, ek ermann
522 Fifth Avenue
New York 36, New York
,'J
Thank you so very much for your nice note. It
is indeed pleasant to hoar a little favorable tone in
some of our press recently, but I think the opportunity
you gave me to speak at the Economic Club was one of
the factors which begins to build a better understanding
of what intelligence is really all about in our country.
Thank you so very much for your thoughtfulness in
sending me this note.
Best regards.
Sincerely,
W. E. Colby
Director
WEC : lm (30 Apr 75)
Distribution:
Orig - Addressee
1 - DCI
-I-- A/DCI
1 - ER
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