SUBSTITUTING FOR TED KOPPEL AND REPORTING FROM WASHINGTON, SANDER VANOCUR

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP88-01070R000301510008-2
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 4
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 8, 2010
• Sequence Number: 8
• Publication Date: December 27, 1984
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

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ABC NIGHTLINE
27 December 1984
..ubstituting for Ted Koppel and reporting from Washington, Sander Vanocur
!'ANOCUR: The United States has been sending covert aid to the Afghan
guerrillas
in their fight against the Soviets. Weapons and supplies are being funneled
through neighboring Pakistan. But, as Bill Redeker discovered there, much of
that aid is not getting to its ultimate destination.
REDEKER: They are training for the Jihad, the holy war, Afghan insurgents
called Mujahadeen, who will soon take their place in the five-year battle with
the Soviets. Their camp near the Afghan border is financed in part by the
American government. Reportedly, the CIA has spent $625 million backing the
resistance since 1980, money for arms and ammunition, secretly sent to the
Muiahadeen through neighboring Pakistan.,. But not all-of the weapons go
directly.
to the Afghan resistance fighters. Some of them wind up here in a black market
gun bizarre in Pakistan, where Afghans must buy what the American government
has
already paid for. Pakistani arms merchant *Haji Basgol will only admit...
HAJI BASGOL: Business is very good.
.REDEKER: But some Afghan resistance leaders say privately Pakistani officials
are selling Basgol and other gun dealers weapons meant for the Mujahadeen. The
United States buys arms for the Afghans, usually Chinese and Soviet models, in
Israel and. Egypt and then secretly ships them to the port of Karachi. There
they are handed over to the Pakistan government for distribution to the rebel
groups headquartered in border towns like Peshawar. But a visit to a secret
arms warehouse with the-Mujahadeen leader reveals the guerrillas have received
far -less than what they want. UNIDENTIFIED-MUJAHADEEN: This is all we have.'
We have no more guns, no more guns in the, in the warehouse.
REDEKER: They also claim some of what they get is not what was originally sent
and is of inferior quality. UNIDENTIFIED MUJAHADEEN: We believe that this is
all probably' swapped by,the, by the authorities.
REDEKER: Because of the secret.nature of U.S. aid, it's impossible to know how
much is lost to corruption by Pakistani officials or by the resistance groups
themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED ---~?
MUJAHADEEN 2: We are not getting ahead, and One reason is because we don't
have
the sophisticated weapons to fight the Russians in the air with.
UNIDENTIFIED MUJAHADEEN 3 (speaking foreign language) (voice of translator):
In
person-to-person fight, we don't worry about, they can't damage us at all. But
we're, the, ah... The superpower air power. is devastating.
(footage of Soviet helicopters)
Contitltd
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REDEKER: This is what the Mujahadeen fear most, the Russian MI-24 helicopter
gunship. Equipped with machine guns and rockets, it has proved devastating
against the resistance. The Mujahadeen have a few surface-to-air missiles'like
this Soviet-made SAM-7, but they're often ineffective against the MI-24s. The
United States has refused to send its own sophisticated missiles in order to
avoid confrontation with the Soviets, all of which makes Mujahadeen leaders in
Pakistan argue that America doesn't understand what's at stake.
SIBGHATULLAH MOJADDEDI (Afghanistan resistance): We are, we are not the aim
and
goal. The goal is Pakistan. The goal is water of Indian Ocean. The goal is
to
surround the Middle East aisle. Then we, they are only passing through
Afghanistan. It was a good luck for. Pakistan that we could resist for five,'
six
years. Otherwise, now. Pakistan was occupied by Russians (sic).
REDEKER: As a result of the Soviet air power campaign, more than 3 million
civilians have fled their homeland since 1979. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (leaving
Afghanistan with his family): We don't like the Russian government. And they
always attack on all of us.
REDEKER: Today, one out of every five Afghans lives in'Pakistan, -the largest
refugee population in the world: That exodus has made it difficult for the
guerrillas to operate inside Afghanistan, depriving them of food and other
support. In all, as many as 500,000 Afghans have been killed in the five-year
war, compared to about 8,000 Soviet soldiers and airmen. Military analysts say
the Soviets have intensified their attacks this year. As for help from the
West,'a Senate Foreign Relations Committee report finds that signs of Western
aid are scarce. QUDRATULLAH MOJADIDI (Afghanistan resistance): It probably is
adequate for us to keep our fight gain' on and fight and get killed for it but
not enough to fight and, defend ourself. If the, the Free World is, is able or
willing to help us, then I think they have to help us adequately so we can
defend ourself.
REDEKER: At this camp in Pakistan, 2,000 fighters have been waiting for more
than a year. UNIDENTIFIED MUJAHADEEN: (speaking foreign language) (voice of
translator): We're just waiting for arms so we-can send'our fighters back.
REDEKER: While they wait, training continues. Recruits practice with
Chinese-made weapons. They learn to assemble an AK-147 in the dark. They don't
fire because they have no ammunition.' One Mujahadeen, one holy warrior sings a
poem. UNIDENTIFIED MUJAHADEEN (singing) (voice of translator): Death to you,
all Russia. You are the enemy of our Koran, the enemy of our religion. You
are
trying to conquer Afghanistan, but.remember, the people will die to protect
thei r country ? ..
REDEKER: The United States plans to double its covert aid to the Mujahadeen
this year. But will it help them win or merely condemn them to fight and die?
Bill Redeker for Nightline in northwest Pakistan..
VANOCUR: When we come back-, we'll. be joined by Andrew.Eiva, an American who.
once helped train Afghan rebels and now believes they can't win without more
American aid, and Michael Armacost, U.S. deputy undersecretary 'of State.
Continued
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VANOCUR:. Joining us now herein our Washington bureau is Andrew Eiva,
executive
director of the Federation for American Afghan Action, a lobbying group that
wants more aid'sent to the guerrillas fighting in Afghanistan, and
Michael Armacost, U.S. deputy sec, undersecretary of State for political
affairs. Mr. Armacost, what is U.S. policy in Afghanistan, to give the
guerrillas enough aid to preoccupy the Russians but not enough aid for them to
deal the Russians grievous blows? ARMACOST: No,-Sandy, our policy is to
promote a negotiated settlement of the situation, which would prompt the
withdrawal.of all Soviet forces from Afghanistan. As a matter of policy, I'm
not gonna comment on the manner in which the Mujahadeen get their weapons. I
would say simply that we are doing what we consider appropriate and necessary,:
given the situation on the ground and given the sensitivities of governments in
the area. But as a practical matter, it would seem to me the test of whether
or. :. ..
not the Mujahadeed are doing well'and getting the equipment they need.is a
very,
a very practical one and an empirical one. And the test is this, that a
country
of some 15 or 16 million people have (sic) fought to?a standoff the great power
that happens to be a neighbor, unfortunately for the Afghans. They have sent
115,000 troops in. They have done their five years, which is longer than the
Soviets fought in World War II. They've brought to bear on the Mujahadeen the
most advanced military equipment, and yet today the situation of the insurgents
and the Mujahadeen on the ground is, I believe, they're stronger militarily
than
they've been in the past. They hold sway over two-thirds of the country.
They're active in the rest of the country. Attacks on the cities have been
growing, and they appear to be better equipped and better trained than they've
been at any time in the past five years.
VANOCUR: Mr. Eiva,"do you agree with that assessment? ANDREW EIVA (Federation
for American Afghan Action): No, I certainly do not. The implementation of
the .
policy'speaks for itself. When one sees'the types of air defense weapons that
the Afghans get, one .sees a policy that appears to be condemning the Afghan
lives.to be spent very cheaply. Most of the ammunition being delivered for the
heavy machine guns is the type, nonarmor-piercing, unfit for taking on
helicopter gunships. The SAM-7 missiles that the CIA's director of operations
is delivering to the Afghan resistance had a track record of 100 percent
failure :...
in the.CIA's last secret war in Angola, and'that's the missile they've been
sending to the Afghans for four years, despite anguished reports of its
ineffectiveness from the field.. And there-are certain problems with the
implementation of U.S. policy. If it's U.S. policy to produce a negotiated
settlement, why have we spent 500,000 Afghan lives so cheaply?
VANOCUR: Mr. Armacost, you're.being rather coy. What's wrong with aiding the
Afghan rebels?_ I mean,-it's a fact of life, of international life. ARMACOST:
Well, as I say, we're doing what we consider appropriate and necessary, but
what :. .,
any country does in the way,. of supplying equipment is an.intelligence matter on
which I'm not going to comment.'
Cwtinued
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VANOCUR: But you did, you did bring up other nations. I take it that would be
Pakistan, and it leads to. the question... ARMACOST: I'm not gonna comment on
any particular nations, Sandy. I'm simply. going to say that the assertions.
that
the Mujahadeen are not getting equipment, it would seem to me, is a question
that can be tested in the field, and all I'm saying is that after five years,
.
an
incredible struggle, it seems to me we ought to be paving tribute-to the
fortitude and-the resolutio and the ingenuity and. the skill with which the'
Mujahadeen have fought to a standoff a very powerful neighbor bringing to bear
on them heavy equipment. It's, it's quite an incredible saga, it seems to'me,
.and it's quite in keeping...
VANOCTJR: Mr. Eiva, does that suggest to you that-after all the denunciations
by
the Carter administration, what President Reagan said today, that in terms of* !.
geopolitics, the Afghan struggle is really small beer to this country. EIVA:
That's the way some of our officials are treating it. It's a real, problem.
Every... There are two versions about the effectiveness of aid, and that's
oart
of the problem that has stymied Congress for several years in coming up with
.effective action on behalf of the resistance. For example, John *McMahon, the
CIA's deputy director of central intelligence, runs around Capitol Bill
briefing
congressmen and other key administration officials what a wonderful job the
CIA.'s director of operations is doing in the field, while what the Afghans are
receiving out in the field actually, according to every independent observer,
is
condemning.them to a slow death. The, ah, ah.'.. Congress was frust...
Congress, in its frustration with the inadequacy of the State Department's and
the administration's no-win policy, has allocated more money than the
administration even asked for for the covert operation, and yet still we have
this type of stonewalling, that we're looking for a negotiated settlement, that
we're not really gonna-get, ah, give these people serious aid, hiding behind a
covert smokescreen what is, in effect, a no-win policy that is writing off this
courageous and noble country, which has 'achieved miracles in the field. This
sort of action is really, well, immoral and unworthy of a great power.
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