MR. STEVENS

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 6
• Document Creation Date: December 22, 2016
• Document Release Date: March 15, 2011
• Sequence Number: 11
• Publication Date: June 25, 1986
• Content Type: MISC

Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
114W -
diplomatic facilities.
preclude many firms, especi
nies who had been in business fo
equipments and installations are
evolving companies resulting from the
recent upsurge in worldwide terrorism.
The committee provision has the
effect of precluding many of these
newer companies from competing for
less competition, the taxpayer will end
by reducing the 5 year requirement to
2 years and striking the business
Mr. President, the fourth amend-
ment establishes a setaside for small
businesses. and now I quote from the
amendment, "to the extent practica-
The fact of the matter is that the
State Department has a history of pre-
ferring to deal with a small number of
ices. Small businesses around the
country who are not in favor find it
almost impossible to successfully bid
My amendment attempts to ad
implementatio,
pans
the smaller projects.
Accordingly. these four amendments
deal with enhancing the opportunities
for American firms to do the kind of
proposing to take
issions Act.
nt, & very brief explana-
committee bill is presently
believe that American com-
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENA'l
The assistant legislative clerk called
the roll.
Mr. SIMPSON: I announce that the
Senator from Oregon (Mr. PACxwooa]
is necessarily absent.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
PRLSSI.zR). Are there any other Sena-
tors in the Chamber desiring to vote?
The result was announced-yeas 99,
nays 0, as follows:
construction that we are talking about
in support of the diplomatic security
initiative that this Congress is going to
fund at a very high level this year.
These amendments will enhance the
opportunity of American companies,
both large and small, to do that work.
It is also the purpose of one of these
amendments to ensure that only
American companies will compete for
projects involving physical or techni-
cal security.
I believe that fairly describes the
amendments. which have been cleared
ness is the Diplomatic Security Pro-
tives the Foreign Relations Committee
had in drafting the amended version
of H.R. 4151 Was to see that American
support the amendment on our
side
Co
reconsider * vote by which the
man and ranking or)ty memoer of
the Foreign Relati Committee and
their staff working th us and work-
ing out these amen ents and allow-
ing us to present them t this time.
I am sure the small b iness commu-
nity of America does ap eciate that.
Mr. LUGAR. I thank Senator.
The PRESID ING O CER (Mr.
RuoaAn). Under the pre us order,
the hour of 2 p.m. having ved, the
vote will now occur on t Simon
The question is on agree to the
amendment of the Senator fr m Illi-
nois. On this question, the yand
nays have been ordered. and the clerk
will call the roil.
S8425
YEAS-99
Abdnor Glenn McConnell
Andrews Goldwater Meicher
Armstrong Clore Meuenhaum
Baucus Clorton Mitchell
Bentsen Gramm Moynihan
Biden Grassley Murkoaski
Bingaman Harkin Nickles
Boren Hart Nunn
Bosehwtts Hatch Pet)
Bradley Hatfield Pressler
Bumpers Hawkins Pro
Burdick Hecht Pry
Byrd Heflin Ile
Chafee Hems iegle
Chiles Helms Rockefeller
Cochran HoWngs Roth
Cohen Humph Rudman
Cranston Inou 8arbalm
D'Amato Jo n Sasser
DeConcini n Simpson
Denton Kennedy Specter
Dixon Kerry Stafford
Dodd Lautenbers Stennis
zasleton as Trible
East Lugar Wallop
Beam Mathias Warner
)titan Matsunaga Weicker
Ford Mattingly Wilson
Gan McClure Zorinsky
NOT VOTINO-1
O 1420
Mr. LUGAR. Mr. President. I move
to reconsider the vote by which the
amendm90 wA..d to. _
The motion to lay on the table was
agreed to.
Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President. I ask
unanimous consent that the pending
amendment be temporarily set aside.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out objection. it is so ordered.
AMLHDMLNT NO. 2154
(purpose: To provide for forfeiture of pro-
ceeds derived from espionage activities,
and for other purposes) ?
Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President, I send
an amendment to the desk.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
amendment will be stated.
The bill clerk read as follows:
The Senator from Alaska (Mr. 8- awls].
for himself. Mr. Dmaow, Mr. TavaMoss.
Mr. LZAET. Mr. MvRxovn NI. Mr. D'AMATo.
Mr. Boas.. Mr. LAxALT, Mr. Zosness:T. Mr.
McCoxxa.L. Mr. AslStaoxa. Mr. Dtntss-
ssaosR. Mr. MArrIx6LT, Mr. Lsvnr. Mr. AN-
nssws, and Mr. LccA* proposes an amend-
ment numbered 2184.
Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President. I ask
unanimous consent that the reading of
the amendment be dispensed with.
Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
 Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
W
June 25, 1986
S 8426 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With- "(!xi) The Attorney General of the Mr. STEVENS. This legislation. Mr.
ie
United States. at his discretion. is author- president, is not too complicated. It
ies
sp s
f
lowing: Section 79d of title 18, United States
Code. is amended by Inserting at the end
thereof the following:
'?(d)1) Any person convicted of a violation
of this section or of any other felony in vio-
lation of the provisions of this chapter shall
forfeit to the United Statom irrespective of
any provision of State law-
(A) any property constituting. or derived
from. any proceeds the person obtained. di-
rectly or indirectly. as the result of such %io-
lation: and
(B) any of the person's property used. or
intended to be used. in any manner or part.
to commit, or to facilitate the commission
of, such violation.
"(2) The court, in imposing sentence on a
defendant for a conviction of a violation of
this section or of any other felony in viola-
tion of this chapter. shall order that the de-
fendant forfeit to the United States all
property described in paragraph (1) of this
subsection.
(3) The provisions of subsection (b). (c)
and (e) through (o) of section 413 of the
Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and
Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 853 (b), (c).
and (e)-(0)) shall apply to-
?(A) property subject to forfeiture under
this subsection:
??(B) any seizure or disposition of such
property: and
??(C) any administrative or judicial pro-
.
sp
Iced to pay. an amount not to exceed addresses the problem o
$100.000 as a reward for information- who have been selling information
??(A) leading to the arrest or conviction of concerning the security of our country
any person for- and have been profiting from that
? (i) the commission of a felony in viola-
tion of this chapter or for a conspiracy or action.
attempt to commit such an offense: or it would deny spies the proceeds of
"(ii) an offense described in subsection the sale of the information. It would
(dX4) of this section. or for a conspiracy or deny spies any royalties from the sale
attempt to commit such an offense: or of any story pertaining to their activi-
(B) mitigt o the the effect of a iru felony ties, and it would allow rewards for
lion, tthis of the a
In violation n of this chapter r or o or or an offense those who turn in information which
described in subsection (dX4) of this section. leads to the apprehension of spies.
"(2) The Attorney General or the desig- By taking away the proceeds of espi-
neee of the Attorney General shall deter- onage and confiscating property used
mine whether an Individual furnishing ern- to commit espionage, we will not just
formation described in paragraph (1) is enti- be punishing those convicted of espio-
tied to a reward under this section and the
amount to be paid. except that the author- Wage: we will make them think twice
ity to pay a reward of $10.000 or more shall about entering into the career of
not be delegated to any person other than spying for profit.
the Deputy Attorney General. the Associate I believe that we can make it harder
Attorney General, or the Director of the for people to get their hands on infor.
Federal Bureau of Investigation. A determi nation of this type. We can try to ini-
nation made by the Attorney General or the prove detection methods and we will
take various steps to increase security.
subseectictioon f the shallb be e final l and General conclusiveunder. this
and d
sub
no court shall have jurisdiction or power to However, until we take away the mo-
review such determination." tivation which has been present, that
'?(3) No officer, employee. or member of is the financial aspects of spying, we
the Armed Forces of the United States or of will not be able to stop what has been
any governmental entity who. while in the going on.
performance of her official in u our real Job. I think. is to let every-pars- graph (1) shall be eligible for any monetary one know that no one in this country
reward under this subsection. except that a will be allowed to profit from espio-
if not inconsistent with this subsection. person who acts with official approval as an Wage.
over source or informant, when It is This legislation will allow the confls-
d
erc
(4) Upon motion of the United States at- un
torney made at any time after conviction of not s part of that person's normal official cation of any of the "prproeeeds of the
a person at a trial conducted under chapter duties to do so, may be eligible for such a sale of the spy story, that is of the spy
47 of title 10 with respect to convictions reward. himself or herself.
under sections 904 (article 104). 908 (article "(4) There are suthor)?nd to be approvri- The public, I think. has a fascination
108). 906a (article 106a), and for convictions aced such sums as are necessary for the pay-
under section 934 (article 134) that lncorpo- ment of rewards under this subsection with spies and espionage but infamy
rate provisoes of this chapter. a court of except that no funds may be appropriated should not be the foundation for a
competent jurisdiction shall, if the court de- for this purpose prior to fiscal year 1987. '- public career or for financ bd gucc ss.
termines that the interest of justice so re- Mr, STEVENS. Mr. President, the I really believe that it is time for us
quires, order such person to forfeit to the amendment I present to the Senate to act to prevent this type of situation
United States all property described in parr addresses what I consider to be a "sera- from developing in our corsatry
the ous problem that faces our Nation. the growing threat to otr naRioeal aecuri-
grapoh (1) upon this the motion subsection United
"States(exl) attorney made at any time after con- question and the problem surrounding ty.
1945 there have been 65 pros.
viction of a defendant for a violation of this espionage. Since in violation of I
introduced
irres f 28 individ-. 1654 on September ecutions
ot
to attempt respond 1982 the FBI relating to
her t
f
ease described in 1? of last year
o
for an
this chapter or
s?bsection (dxd) of this section. and after to that problem and that bill was uajs for espionage, 18 haae been con-
mmit- d six cases use still pending.
n
C
d
_
shah. if the court determines that the inter-
est of rnaloe so requires. order such defend-
by that defendant. or by a transferee or . w well as that defendant. from a contract relating to the Judiciary Committee selves.
the depiction of such offense in a movie. Senators L58 T, M~w The lure of money Is testing people
boot, newspaper. Magazine. radio or televi- D'AIsMTO, Boars. Is-AL=. ZOOIISSZT, into espionage. It Is attracting too
anon prodm'tbrr6 or live entertainment or TEURMOsD. MCCosnas.? Lsvnr, As- many people and this Prkna motiva-
presentation of any kind. or from a contract Daxws. MArrxxmy. Ma==nna. and tion is sheer greed.
relating to an expression of the convicted DUanIWGI- Law enforcement off' efsls responsi-
person s thoughts. opinions. or emotions re- There are at least 41 cosponsors to ble for Investigating espions8! cases
garding such crime. the basic bill. Unfortunately I have the common denominator in
(2) An order issued under this subsection ize shall require teat the party with whom the been unable to contact all of them these cases has become the search for
defendant contracts pay to the Attorney before today so I ask unanimous con- profit. To quote Bill Baker. assistant
General say proceeds due the defendant sent the remainder of the list be print- director -of the FBI. "It says in the
under such a contract. ed in the RacoaD at this point. KGB manual. 'Americans can be
??(3) Proceeds paid to the Attorney Genes- There being no objection, the mate- bought."'
at under this subsection shall be paid into rlal was ordered to be printed in the We wean aware of the Walker
the general fund of the Treasury of the RZcoxv, as follows: family spy case. We an actually fortu-
"(4)As~used In this subsection. the term senators Domeaiel. Seines son' note that john and Michael Walker
'interested party' includes the defendant. Glenn. Nunn. Batch. 0111142- lest, Chaise. reached a plea bargainlag agreement.
any transferee of proceeds due the defend- Gorton. Hasitn. Rudman. Goldwater. Gate. This gives us the opportunity to
ant under the contract referred to in par. Bumpers, Byrd. Boschwits, Zson. Nickles, answer questions about just how sero-
sa=psh a), and the person with whom the Hgtamwylb S sons. Abdnot. a ey' cum the damage done by the Walkers
defendant has contracted.
.
so
a
behalf an
part of proceeds received or to be received worked very hard to get the bill out of think the figures speak for them
o
a
pending before theJudiciary victe
tee for some time. It is now before res. This 4-year total is the highest rate
fr- ' S for espio-
I offer this amendment on my for arrest and conv
who nags charges since World War II. I
Senator Dgbasou
l
d
Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
 Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
5 5
June 25, 1986 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENA. E
has been. The Walkers, however, are
not alone in their infamy-by any
stretch of the imagination. They have
been joined in the headlines recently
by Ronald Pelton and the Pollards.
There have been several serious
cases in the last few years. The prob-
lem of U.S. citizens selling off national
security information is best illustrated
by a few examples.
Joseph Helmich was arrested on
July 15. 1981. on charges of selling top
secret information about a crypto-
graphic system to Soviet agents. He
was awarded the honorary rank of
Colonel in the Soviet Army, and re-
ceived $131,000.
David Barnett, a former member of
the CIA's Directorate of Operations.
pleaded guilty on October 29. 1980. to
a charge of selling classified informa-
tion on CIA operations to the Soviet
Union. He admitted to receiving
$92,600 for this information. and may
have been paid an additional amount
to try and secure a staff position with
the Senate or House Intelligence Com-
mittees.
William Hell. a former employee of
Hughes Aircraft Corp.. was arrested
on June 28, 1981. He was charged with
espionage in connection with the sale
of documents to the Polish Intelli-
gence service, for which he received
approximately $110.000.
James D. Harper was arrested Octo-
ber 15. 1983. for selling missile data to
a Polish agent. Harper reportedly was
paid over $250,000. He pleaded guilty
to one count of espionage, and was
sentenced to life imprisonment on
May 14, 1984.
In this sampling-which is far from
exhaustive-there is a common factor
which dominates each case. Theme in-
dividuals were paid fairly large sums
for classified information. Each of
them exchanged a portion of our na-
tional security for their personal gain.
We all recognize that It Is time for
Congress to do something about what
has become a pervasive problem. This
is by no means the only response I
expect us to make to espionage. How-
ever. I believe this to be a major step
in the right direction. If we discourage
individuals from selling information
we remove the incentive to commit es-
pionage. I propose that we use the
profit motive against these perpetra-
tors. This legislation would confiscate
the proceeds of espionage activity, and
turn the tables on spies by paying
those who provide information on
their activities.
The tool we would create with this
legislation to fight espionage is very
similar to one available to drug en-
forcement agents. This is very appro.
priate. since the motivation to commit
espionage and to deal in drugs Is very
similar. In both cases, the perpetrator
cares little for the consequences of his
actions. The reason for being in the
business is to make money-at any
cost. no questions asked. It Is an em-
barrasarnent to our society.
It is now apparent that one of the
best ways to strike at drug dealers is
by taking away the profits of their
business. Even though spies are in-
spired by a similar desire. the amounts
of money we are talking about are de-
cidely smaller. At the same time. the
harm being done is much greater.
Drug use is a plague in this country,
but espionage threatens the nation's
survival.
Taken as a package, I believe this
proposal provides a fairly complete re-
sponse to the prime motivation of espi-
onage. it is carefully drafted so that It
affects only those convicted of espio-
nage felonies. The power to grant re-
wards is carefully limited to avoid
abuse and excess. This is a good piece
of legislation-one that demands
action now. To put it off any longer
could doom this proposal as time runs
short later this year.
In my judgment. it is time for Con-
gress to do something about this prob-
lem. I think the Senate knows that I
have other legislation pending which I
think is sort of old fashioned, but I be-
lieve spies just ought to be shot. As a
matter of fact. the Senator from Ari-
zona told me just now he thinks they
ought to be hung using a loose rope.
I do not think there to anything
about our system in the United States
today that infuriates me as much as
the increasing tendency of Americans
to spy on their own Government and
to do so because of the motivation of
profit.
It is time for us to take a major step
to discourage Individuals from selling
information. and If we do so. I think
we will take action to remove the in-
centive to commit the espionage in the
Ilrst place.
As I said, this amendment would'
bonfiscate the proceeds of espionage
activities and turn the table on those
who spy against their own country by
paying individuals who provide infor-
mation on the spying activities. The
tool we would create with this legisla-
tion to fight espionage is very similar
to that we are using in the drug en-
forcement area.
I think the Senate is well aware of
that.
Mr. ANDREWS. Will the Senator
yield?
Mr. STEVENS. I am happy to yield.
Mr. ANDREWS. I appreciate my col-
league yielding and I am proud to join
him in this effort because of all the
kinds of heinous acts against our
people. the selling-out of our.Nation's
secrets for profit is perhaps the worst.
You can talk about ideology, you can
talk about people who disagree with
what is going on within the Govern-
ment, you can talk about general
spying. They are all bad enough. But
spying for pay for those 40 pieces of
silver has absolutely no place. Mr.
President. In this society of ours.
Spying for profit, selling out your
friends. your family, your neighbors,
for a few dollars Is the worst. the most
S 8427
treasonable act anyone can engage in
against our people.
I would hope that we would be able
to put this kind of stiff regulation in
wherein we would confiscate any of
the profit, any of the profit from writ-
ing the books or taking part in a movie
later on. celebrating this great spy
case or whatever it might be. Not only
that, but I am totally inclined to go
along with my colleague when he
quotes our colleague from Arizona in
saying, "These are the kinds of people
who ought to be shot because there is
absolutely no justification for spying.
for espionage, for profit."
I applaud my colleague for introduc-
ing this amendment. We cosponsored
the legislation. It would be my hope
that the leaders of the debate of this
bill will accept this amendment be-
cause it Is long overdue.
Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President. I
thank the Senator from North
Dakota. He has been In the forefront
of those who have tried the assist to
work out this legislation. I think we
should mention Senator Dgnrotr. who
has worked very hard to see to It that
the legislation be brought to the floor.
There is no question about it that we
are now dealing with a different phe-
nomenon in our country with this in-
creased activity of espionage for
money.
I have introduced legislation to
make certain that that kind of activi-
ty, espionage for profit against our
own Government. is considered trea-
son.
0 1430
I consider it to be treason and I
think the country believes it Is trea-
son. This amendment has been care-
fully drafted It does not affect those
people who go out and study the ac-
tivities of a convicted spy and present
to the country the story of that type
of activity. What it does is prevent the
person who is convicted of espionage
from profiting from the act and forfeit
whatever that person received in con-
nection with the espionage activity.
There is no reason to allow them to
keep their ill-gotten gains and there is
no reason to allow them to sell for any
purpose the story of their actions.
Mr. President. I hope that the
Senate will adopt this amendment. It
is time for us to take this action. par-
ticularly in view of the number of
cases that are pending right now in
which substantial sums will be re-
tained by those who have been in-
volved if Congress does not act.
? Mr. MURKOWSKI. Mr. President,
as a member of the Senate Select
Committee on Intelligence I am acute-
ly aware of the problem of espionage
against the United States. Soviet bloc
intelligence services spare no effort or
expense in a relentless effort to steal
scientific, technical, and defense se-
crets from the West. A single technical
document can save Moscow years and
hundreds of millions of dollars In re-
Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
 Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
S 8428 0 _JNGRESSIONAL RECORD - SET,. E
June 25, 1986
search and development. Super-sophis- ' United States in certain defense-relat? recognize that others could be reward.
ticated U.S. intelligence systems, upon ed areas has been seriously eroded by ed for providing information that
which our security depends, can be the foreign success in obtaining classi- leads to their arrest.
compromised in a few minutes by a fied scientific and technical informa- I want to congratulate Senator Srt-
traitor with special knowledge. Any tion. In addition, spying has cost our vzxs for his initiative, and Senator
reader of the newspaper in recent country billings of dollars in stolen DzrroN, chairman of the Subcommit-
weeks knows these are not hypotheti- technology and military cal possibilities. they are case histo- verse the trend, we usstere o eothe worked Sclosely an td hTem o the who
ries. financial incentive for those persons Denton/Leahy substitute which
We have seen the emergence of a who would assist these foreign spies b
nea? hrpnA of ..... .._------ ?--------- -- -? - - -
y
illi
ns to sell out their country This amendment will remove the fi-
for cash. Spying has become a lucra- nancial incentive and will aid in the
Live business. Men like Walker and battle against espionage. The amend-
Whitworth apparently received hun. ment contains three separate provi-
dreds of thousands of dollars for the sions.
information they provided. Walker, First, it requires that convicted spies
now that he has been caught, has em- forfeit all proceeds from their espio-
barked on a new money-making nage activities by incorporating by ref-
scheme to sell his story to a publisher. erence the forfeiture provisions con-
The more notorious the author, the tamped in the Comprehensive Drug
fatter the royalties. Abuse Prevention and Control Act of
Why should espionage pay? It 1970, (21 U.S.C. section 853).
should not, and passage of the amend- Second, It requires that any proceeds
ment will make sure it does not. It is from publication or television rights to
time to make it abundantly clear that the story on, or interviews of, convict-
there will be no opportunity for the ed spies be forfeited (Mirroring the
Walkers and their ilk to keep their ill Son-of-Sam provisions contained in 18
gotten gains. Espionage is not fun and U.S.C. section 3671);
games. Anyone contemplating spying Third, It establishes a new fund to
against this country must know that reward those whose information leads
there will be no pot of gold at the end to the arrest or conviction of spies
of the rainbow-only a very inns st.o
the Senator yield for a question?. - ...
Mr. STEVENS. I yield for a question
to the Senator from Maryland.
Mr. MATHIAS. My question arises
from the so-called Son of Sam provi.
sion of this amendment, which would
prevent persons convicted of certain
espionage offenses from profiting by
writing about their crimes. It is surely
a repulsive spectacle when an Individ-
ual profits from the commercial ex-
ploitation of his crimes against the
United States, and I am in complete
sympathy with the Senator's effort to
divert that profit stream. Nonetheless,
I am also concerned about the degree
to which any "Son of Sam" provision
burdens the exercise of first amend-
ment rights. Am I correct in my under-
standing that this amendment is rmod-
wines in the Rewards for Information ?"a` ` uugre enacted in the Compre-
Mr. President, the amendment of. Concerning Terrorism Act, 18 U.S.C. hensive Crime Control Act of, 1984,
fered by Senator SrxvrNS is right on section 3071). and that now is codified at 18 U.S.C
point. It prevents spies from taking ad- Mr. President, I am pleased that section 3671?
vantage of their illegal activities, and Senator Srzvaifs has accepted, at my Mr. am offers The Senator is so
STEVENS. says that spies cannot profit by receiv. suggestion, language which will make rect. I am offering this legislation
Ing financial rewards from book royal. the provisions of the amendment w that the forfeiture remedies that were
re
ties, movie rights, and similar arrange- plicable to members of the Armed m
the ade available to the Government in
ments. Clearly, Mr. President, the Forces convicted of espionage pursu- of Comprehensive Crime crimes o Control Act
Senate must say loud and clear that ant to the Uniform Code of Military le 1984 with respect to crimes of vio-
spies cannot become "media stars" Justide, as well as those individuals lence can be used
from their illegal activities. I urge my convicted under title 18 of the United
a utes. against inn ape
are violating cepiona of
colleagues to support this Important States Code. filed espionage statutes. Mr. MA.
amendment.. This amendment represents a neces- THIAS Am I also correct
?. Mr. DENTON. Mr. President, I rise sary tool in our fight against espio- that it is not the Senator's intent to
in support of the amendment offered nage: I urge my colleagues to support inhibit In
by my distinguished colleague from it.* any way the right of a third
Alaska (Mr. Siavzxs) which ioco o- person c write or an
publish viaccount
rates the substance of S. 1654. The pleased to Mr. LEAHY. Mr. President, I am of the crimes that a convcted spy
rates t bill, which was unanimously this amendment. origin al cosppon~aof committed against the United States?
approved by the Judiciary Committee apply existing Federal procedures for Mr STEVEq ore frtt Senator's a r pt rt n of 1984 on June 12. 1986, will amend title 18 forfeiture of criminal proceeds, and re- the rect. Let me "Son n
U.S.C. to a provide for criminal title IS
wards for informants. espionage the Judiciary of Samto legisla` n,I
use of prov derived from es to-
p cases. confident that it ile
help clarify
nage activities and rewards for infor- We have all been shocked by the the scope of the forfeiture provision
orations providing Information leading wave of espionage cases that have oc- that I am offering:
to arrests in espionage cases. I com. curred in the Defense Department, ? ? ? the t I amendment refers to money
mend Senator STavzNs for his leader. among Defense contractors, and even payable to the defendant's "transferee." to
ship in this area and I am only too In the Intelligence agencies. Perhaps rather than ? any other party." This to
happy to Join as an original cosnnnrn. -I,_ .~_..--
? U. ainenament.
Mr. President, recent events sur-
rounding the Walker and other espio.
nage cases have made it abundantly
clear that the threat of espionage is
real and pervasive. The Soviet Union,
Its client-states, and other hostile
countries have a massive effort under.
way in this country to amass large
amounts of material about our mill.
T he secrets
foreign intelligence gathering In
the United States has caused untold
damage to our national security. The
technological lead enjoyed by the
vealed in the Walker case. Whatever
other factors may have motivated
John Walker to betray his country's
defense secrets to the Soviet Union,
his cynical attention appeared.to focus
primarily on the money he stood to
make from his activities.
This amendment squarely addresses
the Ill-gotten gains from espionage
and the incentive to turn in those sus-
pected of this crime. It will be a useful
contribution in our effort to see to it
that espionage will never be seen to
pay, and that those actually or con.
templating spying for foreign powers
Truman Capote, the author of "In Cold
Blood." or other authors who have not par.
ticipated in criminal conduct and who wish
to depict the defendant's crime, are not af-
fected by the proposed rule change.
(8. Rep. No. 98-497 at A.)
The "In Cold Blood" example is in-
structive here, since the corresponding
provision in this legislation is not in-
tended to reach an Innocent third
party who was not convicted of espio-
nage when that third party writes or
publishes an account of the events sur-
rounding the espionage offense. It
would apply to any proceeds due to
the convicted spy or any part of the
Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
 June .25, 1986
,
s
Mr. MATHIAS. I thank the Senator
from Alaska those of us in our profession under- Lion today with all the drug cases we
Mr. STEVENS. Let me amplify the stand that full well. We are not seek- see. with tremendous funds being re-
comments I have just had with Sena- Ing to change that. ceived by those peddling drugs. When
for MArxres to emphasize again that Mr. STEVENS. I say to my friend we do apprehend them. we regain
this is not any attempt to invade the from Ohio. I understand what he is some of that money. We find that the
other areas of the Federal Code. Nor Is saying. I have no intention of Chang- defendant has received money and
rmAl treatment of attorney- conviction
there are existing
Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
W w
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE S 8429
convicted spy's share that he has di-
verted to some third person.
Mr. MATHIAS. I thank the Senator
from Alaska for that clarification. I
have one additional question. One of
the statutes covered by this amend-
ment is 18 U.S.C. 793. As the Senator
knows, an important case under that
statute was recently concluded in my
home State of Maryland. In that case.
the jury convicted Samuel Morison of
providing certain classified photo-
graphs to Jane's Defense Weekly.
I raise this point because the pros-
ecution of Mr. Morison under section
793 is unprecedented, has wide-rang-
ing first amendment implications, and
is currently on appeal. In other words,
the law in this area may be in a state
of flux. Would the Senator's amend-
ment have any effect an the substan-
tive reach of section 793?
Mr. STEVENS. It is not my intent to
affect in any way the definition of the
underlying offenses to which this leg-
islation would apply. Thus, this legis-
lation should have no impact on the
Iudicial interpretation of
would simply provide thet Govern-
ment with the opportunity to seek an
additional remedy against someone fi-
nally convicted under that statute.
.
-
discuss with my colleague from I am not trying to make ou
Alaska. That has to do with the ques- for any particular individual. but my rect in the sense that we. of course,
tion of the right of a defendant to colleague and I are both lawyers. I are not trying to require that-but if
have legal counsel and the concern think we would both agree that a the court, following thenormalproce-
that has been expressed that assumes lawyer would not be held responsible dures, would find that the attorney
the individual did engage in espionage or should not be called upon to make a had knowledge of the source of the urt or it was alleged that he did and then judicial determination as to whether mone forfeiture eiof the ved. the coeys Ico he
he hires counsel. As I understand it, his client is or is not guilty. orde under this provision, those funds that I think it is reasonable to assume hands of the attorney in whole or in
would have been paid to counsel could that the lawyer taking the individual's part, depending on what the court de-on the bas be forfeited as well. As a consequence, case is taking it up is t in a is the not cid s under t Comprehensihe Drug es. But it Abuse and
the individual might not be in a posi- assuming Is going to tion to be represented by a lawyer. He guilty" plea-that he in his mind feels Prevention and Control Act that has
is not guilty until he is found guilty. that there is a chance of having the been the guide and it does. as I said,
it an attempt to in any way Errc~caa~ . -- -
third party from engaging in the busi- client relationship nor the right of the
or television reason to bto be elieve that the money he
ness of forr for g the h air for
medimedia the stories of those who have receives is part of the proceeds of the
been involved in these kinds of activi- crime. we do not affect Istatus.
p ate
ties.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With- ~~comment I ~~ it of the goes most of the way
out objection. It is so ordered.
Mr. STEVENS. I am pleased to to the thing about which I have con-
answer any questions my colleagues cern. But let us assume for the
may have. moment that the attorney were to
Mr. METZENBAUM. Mr. President, know where the proceeds came from
I do not think any of us would speak but that for a host of other reasons,
in opposition to the amendment of the he was convinced that the defendant
Senator from Alaska with respect to was not guilty. The man might have
the forfeiture of funds gained from es- the money but he might not be guilty
pionage or from writing relative to for any one of a number of reasons, in-
that or removing pictures. I think we cluding the conceivable reason of stat-
all support that concept. This lan- ute of limitations, that it was out of
guage is, I think, identical with lan- the jurisdiction of the court. that
guage that has been in the Judiciary there was some violation of his rights
Committee for several weeks. as to how the information was ob-
We have been wrestling with one tained, that there was an unlawful
aspect of the problem I would like to search and seizure. t
case
Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
I wonder whether or not it is the defendant found not guilty. All I want
intent of the author of the amend- to do is let the individual, whoever he
ment to preclude the right of the de- may be-whether he is accused of the
fendant to have legal counsel, even most heinous crime, and certainly es-
though it very well might be that pionage has to be included in that cat-
some portion of those funds would be egory-to let that individual have legal
expended for legal counsel. Some counsel. Some have suggested that the
thought has been given to giving the courts could appoint counsel. but I
Judiciary. the Judge handling the case. think we would agree that if the indi-
some discretionary authority in con- vidual had, funds. and certainly sub-
nection with this subject. Would the stantial funds, it would not be reasons-
Senator from Alaska care to indicate ble to expect that the court would ap-
his thoughts on that subject? point counsel.
Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President, we I have that one reservation concern-
have no intention of changing the ing the Senator's response. which indi-
normal treatment of attorneys' fees in cated that if he knew the man was
such circumstances. If an attorney has guilty or where the money came from.
reason to know that his client is I think he has practiced law long
paying him the proceeds that he has enough and I have practiced law long
obtained by committing a crime, then enough to know that nobody is guilty
the money in the hand of the attorney until the court has found the individ-
is forfeitable. If he does not have ual guilty and that every person has
reason to suspect that, then it is an- the right to have his day in court.
other matter. Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President. we
It is my understanding that this has have been in the practice of law for a
been handled this way in other cir- long time, and I was the Government
cumstances. it does not come up just attorney in my State for 3 years, and I
in connection with this case. If a know some of these issues come up in
person robs a bank and is on trial and a hard way.
the lawyer who is defending that
r say to the Senator from Ohio that
th
e mentvin any more difficult circum-
received is pan of the loot from
he cannot keep that. I think
tances than they do in a drug situa-
bank
,
upon
statutes which allow for forfeiture. As
a matter of fact, this bill. as the Sena-
tor knows, is patterned after the drug
statute that requires the forfeiture of
the money received by the defendant
who has been convicted of violating
the law relating to drugs-
I say to my friend that this amend-
ment before us does not require a for-
feiture until conviction and it puts in
the hands of the court that imposes
the sentence the duty to order the for-
feiture to the United States of the
property we have listed as being sub-
ject to forfeiture. It is similar, as I
said, to the drug statute.
Mr. MEIZENBAUM. I know it
cannot cause a forfeiture of attorneys'
fees as such. That is not indicated by
implication or otherwise. Am I correct
in my understanding? 41
0 1440
STEVENS. The Senator is cor-
Mr
 deal with the forfeiture of such funds
that have been received and gives the
authority to the court to order such
other disposition of the property as it
saps fir
what the Senator from Ohio says is to a v
right, that until conviction the attor-
ney is not in any way in a position of
facing a forfeiture of moneys that
have come into his hands as a result of
his relationship with the defendant.
But if he has knowledge and it can be
shown and the court decides the attor-
ney had knowledge the money the de-
fendant delivered to him was received
from proceeds of espionage or the pro-
ceeds of selling drugs, they are treated
the same. It is up to the court to deter-
mine what should be forfeited under
this statute.
Mr. ME17ENBAUM. Is it my under-
standing that the amendment of the
Senator from Alaska is intended to be
interpreted in the same manner the
courts have Interpreted the drug-relat-
ed cases?
Mr. STEVENS. That is correct.
Mr. METL>E.:NBAUM. I have no fur-
ther questions, Mr. President.
Mr. LUGAR. Mr. President, as a co-
sponsor of the amendment. I certainly
commend the distinguished Senator
from Alaska for a very important
amendment On our side, we are pre-
pared to accept the amendment.
Mr. PELL Mr. President. the collo-
quy between the Senator from Alaska
and the Senator from Ohio cleared up
one of the problems that might have
been with us in approving this amend-
ment. We think it Is a good amend-
ment and. as far as I know on my side.
there is no objection to it. I recom-
mend we go forward.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is
there further debate? If not the ques-
tion is on agreeing to the amendment
The amendment (No. 2184) was
agreed to.
Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President. I
move to reconsider the vote by which
the amendment was agreed to.
Mr. LUGAR. I move to lay that
motion on the table.
The motion to lay on the table was
agreed to.
Mr. STEVENS. Mr. President. I
thank the Senator from Indiana and
the Senator from Rhode Island. I ap-
preciate the contribution the Senator
from Ohio has made to the legislative
history on this amendment.
Mr. LUGAR. I thank the Senator.
Mr. President I suggest the absence
of a quorum.
The assistant legislative clerk pro-
ceeded to call the rolL
01460
Mr. LUOAR. Mr. President I ask
unanimous cooaent that tbo order f
the quorum call be rescinded.
The PRzSMINO OFFICER. With-
out oblectio4 It If ao ordered.
Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - SENATE
to that
volved wt
Bend and
support in his
sizable city, a
in which indepe
their lot with peo
Mr. President.
of intelligence. Ve
work in behalf of
State of Indians? he
qualities which have
support in our State
support from many
been. I have noticed,
paign- of persons who
date the nature of the
Is being made. In short.
courts and for Issues
that
consider.
persuaded that persons are sit
conservative or too liberal but.
are talking about specific op
that have been written. We are
about specific activities as part
illative and administrative abiliti
that those who are attempting
? matter of fact. Dan Manion Is a v
competent human being, a very c
petent public servant. a person, I
lieve, of extraordinary force as he
presented conservative ideas in
-
State legislature---some of them ado
ed. Some of them not. Clearly, he
acquitted himself well. I know of
.
one In Hoosier politics who ev
well in public life and with public
issues.
demonstrated
to very strong
ma around
on.
e there has
Lionel cam-
not so well
Cq0n. I appre-
ent that
persons
that Dan
some be-~
for the
be might
MANION
take a moment to express the lss
a Hoosier, which means a real- this high
June 25, 1986
and that Is basic fairness to a
ee. a nominee for a very impor-
believe that Mr. Manion
that legal scholars have
through the years to try
for the particu-
Republicans or
fairness. They
at the man or
ee: the Presi-
nomination;
nomination.
will prevail
ng vote
Dan Manion as our constituen look
forward to making a strong caft on
the merits for this nominee. the n i-
^ 1500
Mr. President. I suggest the absence
of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will call the rolL
The legislative clerk proceeded to
call the roll.
^ 1510
Mr. MATHIAS. Mr. President, I ask
unanimous consent that the order for
the quorum call be rescinded.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr.
McCoimzu.). Without objection. It is
so ordered.
AamfD T No. 2186
Mr. MATHIAS. Mr. President. I send
an amendment to the desk and ask for
its immediate consideration.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
clerk will report.
The legislative clerk read as follows:
The Senator from Maryland (Mr. MA-
TmAS] Proposes an amendment numbered
2185.
W. MATHIAS. Mr. President. I ask
unanimous consent that further read-
Ing of the amendment be dispensed
with.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. With-
out Objection, It is so ordered.
The amendment reads as follows:
At the appropriate place Insert the follow-
ins:
Approved For Release 2011/03/15: CIA-RDP87B00858R000300420011-5