RUSSIAN LANGUAGE BROADCAST INTO AFGHANISTAN

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP86M00886R001300140023-1
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: S
• Document Page Count: 18
• Document Creation Date: December 21, 2016
• Document Release Date: December 10, 2008
• Sequence Number: 23
• Publication Date: April 27, 1984
• Content Type: MEMO

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National ineellioence Council
N I C #02227-84
10 April 1984
,%1EMORA DU 4 FOR: Director- of Central Intelligence
De=puty Director of Central Intelligence
THROUGH-:
FROM:
SUBJECT:
. 'Vice Chai man, National Intelligence Councyl
Chairman, National Intelligence Council-;
Fritz W. Emarth
National Intelligence Officer for USSR--EE
Portrait of Soviet POWs/Deserters in Afghanistan
1.. Attached is a particularly extensive and vivid interview done by
Radio Liberty with a Soviet deserter in Afghan hands. He describes
conditions faced by Soviet troops and their attitudes toward the war.
Particularly of note (page 7) is the belief, or wish to believe, that there
is "free Russian" unit fighting with the t4lujaheddin somewhere in
Afghani stan.
2. FYI: The "special section" or "specials" to which the soldier
refers on pages 11-14 are the :GB organs (osobiye otdel i _vrr9sponsi b-l e for
security throughout ;Soy' et ra ] s.
cc: NI0/MESA
DDO/C/NE Division
CL BY SIGNER
RVW 10 APR 90
DECL OADR
iOa4F IWENTIAL
,rC~ l eiirll Intelligence
`Vi-? axa, D .C . 20505
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RL 121/84
radio liberty research
March 19, 1984
A SOVIET SOLDIER OPTS OUT IN AFGHANISTAN*
Note: The following is a translation of one of
a series of interviews conducted by a Radio Liberty
correspondent with former Soviet servicemen who served
in Afghanistan. The original interview was broad-
cast by Radio Liberty on February 27 and 28, 1984.
Announcer: Radio Liberty correspondent Fatima Salkazanova has
returned-from the city of Peshawar in Pakistan on the border with
Afghanistan. She spent almost three weeks in Peshawar. During
her assignment she interviewed six former Soviet servicemen.
Five of them.crossedever voluntarily -to the side of the Afghan
,insurgents. The Bixth was taken prisoner. You will now hear
Fatima Salkazanova's interview with Vladislav Naumov.
Salkazanova: Vladislav Naumov answered all my questions in
.groat detail. The interview naturally began with questions about
himself: who he 'is,. where he studied, and what kind of educaion
did he manage to get 'before being drafted into the army.
Naumov: My name is Vladislav Naumov. I was born in the city of
Volgograd, the former Stalingrad. I am twenty-one years old. I
grew up and went to school in Volgograd. After secondary school,
which I completed in 1979, I enrolled at the Astrakhan Marine
College, from which :I graduated with a navigator-engineer's
certificate and with an assignment to the Volga-Gorky Shipping
Company. From there 1 was.drafted into the army on October 1,
1982. Although my qualifications were related directly to the
navy, I ended up serving in Afghanistan.
Salkazanova: Many Soviet soldiers whom I have met in'the border
region between Pakistan and Afghanistan had received no training
before being sent to Afghanistan. Vladislav Naumov was lucky; he
had, received basic military training.
Naumov: A lot of attention is paid to military training in the
Soviet Union. In all secondary schools, vocational-technical
schools, and technical institutes, Soviet young people are given
military instruction in accordance with the Communist claim that
the enemy never sleeps." It is a first priority of Soviet
education that schools, technical institutes, and universities
should graduate fanatical Communists. Those who do well in this
respect--that is, those who mature under the influence of
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Communist slogans--are encouraged and move ahead successfully in
their subsequent jobs. In the final analysis, however, the
preliminary military training does not provide any practical
military skills because young people are not at all interested in
war. Today's Soviet young people have their own more important
problems to face at every step in their lives. The preliminary
military-training is, I think, regarded more as ideological
training than as military practice.
Salkazzanova: I asked Vladislav Naumov what he had known about
Afghani-star before being drafted into the army and what he had
known about the war in that country before he arrived there.
Naumov I would like to answer this question by citing one
example. In 1981, I met a chap in the "Ostrava" restaurant in
'Volgograd. He was very drunk and, as a result, was not in
control of hi:ns?ef. In his rage, he burst out with imprecations
agora ra t..:.:Sov.i:et..cif f ices s . Sitting --on the steps of the r esta: ir,an.t
building,, he tad -4me that Russian' lads, eighteen to 'twenty yeai: s
old, were dying in Afghanistan, and that the. whole war was a
senseless waste of time. He had a lot of bad things to say about
the insurgents too, but he did not spare the Soviet government as
the cause of all. this madness. I learned from this conversation
that the life of our soldiers in Afghanistan was no picnic, and
later I found out at first hand that the whole burden of the war
falls on the enlisted men, who are fobbed off with medals and
decorations--as if this could substitute for the deaths of' their`
comrades and innocent Afghan people. As regards the press, the
first article. .1 read was in Komsomol'skaya Pravda. That
-article :immediately provoked debates about the tasks of our
soldiers in Afghanistan. The press, of course, writes very
little about Afghanistan. Even now, with the war at its height
and the situation of our lads becoming more and more difficult
with-every day that passes, the Soviet people thinkthatthings
are 't:etturning to normal in Afghanistan and that our 'contingent is
serving under the same conditions as it would in one of the
people's democracies. People learn virtually nothing about the
unjust war from newspapers and magazines. The Soviet people have
become so indifferent to the 'international situation that they
are not in the least interested in what is going on in the world.
Young people, for instance, do not read newspapers, because they
are uninteresting. The ground for this cold indifference is
prepared by the propaganda of red stars, slogans, and posters
hanging everywhere. As a result, the war is only known to those
people who have-been directly affected by the Afghan problem--the
soldiers themselves and the mothers who are the recipients of the
white zinc coffins.
Salkazanova: Please tell us how you were drafted into the army,
.how and from whom you learned that you were being sent to
Afghanistan, and what kind of punishment would have awaited you
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if you had refused to participate in this war. In answer to my
question, Vladislav Naumov replied:
Naumov: After :I received the summons from the military regis-
tration office-which I had to sign for on the doorstep so that I
could not delay :reporting for duty--I was called in to the draft
off office for a tzLlk, together with my relatives. At the draft
office, those ofs who were draftees were told that we would be
doing "our servi:r-e at the front. In other words, they gave us to
-underst.aand that we would be sent to Afghanistan but, at the same
erne, avoided any d:i.r-ect mention of,: the war. The conditions at
the .ecru it in-g :center were terrible. The so-called medical,
commission rubber-stamped the words. Of it for travel" without any
chec ups. or questions.. P-inally, towards evening, the whole crowd
of dza.f:t ees was loaded to the gills. There was a great commotion
at the -recruiti.ng center, with much cursing and fist fights. In
order to cope wit this wild. behavior, the people in charge of
the recruiting center had-to call. in mounted police. The
draftees then realized that the police constituted no great
.
obstacle to them and pelted them with empty bottles and curse-s.
Towards- nnightfaall, , everyone collapsed exhausted,. and at. Y-xdu
point we were -collected without resistance and taken to buses
that drove us to th-c railroad station, where a train had been
readied bef or :hand..
I e,a r, .-d' aho-u~t:: ,going abroad only after being told the
nu ber of may. .navel orders. All those who received orders with
the r 's c;er 280 were being sent abroad, to the peop.e .s:
democracies or to - the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. Later,
the -off officers of ten tried to scare us by mentioning Afghanistan .
The soldiers who accompanied our troop train kept on telling us:
"Hang yourselves.;' We did-not know who had made the decisions
about us, but, I can definitely say that my name was one of the
.first on the list at the recruiting center. I think that they
had been watching me even. before I was drafted, that an eye had
been kept :.:on ?mme ever since sch.ool.. At school I had practiced
shooting and immediately gained a third-class rating.., I also
practiced karate, so I was already becoming what our" warriors
wanted me to be.
At Ter.mez. we built models of Afghan villages. Before every
combat exercise, -Major Makarov would constantly repeat: "Look in
the direction of the village; there are the 'dushmans.'* For-
ward! Kill them: They kill completely innocent people.". And
then the truly punitive operations would start. To begin. with,
we were-armed to the teeth;.some even rolled up the sleeves of
their camouflage cloaks. Then we would attach the bayonets and
*This is the Persian word for enemy. It is what is used in
the Soviet press to refer to Afghan freedom fighters.
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March 19, 1984
silencers to our sharpshooter rifles and join the line. Under
the cover of the infantry's combat vehicles we would raze the
village to the ground.. Then, working under the scorching sun, we
would rebuild the model, all over again. We had training during
the nights also. Without a sound we would capture house after
house, fortress after fortress, we had bayonets and silencers
attached to our rifles, and we learned to use them pretty skill-
fully': The major often repeated Suvorov's words: "The bullet is
a fool, the bayonet--a stalwart. Hit with the bayonet and try .o
turn it around in the body-" At Termez, they did not hide from
us that we wer"e being trained for Afghanistan. On the contrary,
during these exercises we used combat arms--the same as we had in
Afghanistan. Before the oath I could still have avoided service
in Afghanistan, but after having been sworn in, I would have
risked prison or a disciplinary battalion. The soldiers believe
that it is better to spend a year in prison or a camp than serve
one month in the disciplinary battalion. One can draw the.conclu
siren from this just what a disciplinary battalion is like.
Saikaz-anova: While sending soldiers to war, the Soviet mili-
tary chiefs don''t even consider it necessary to tell them where,
they are being sent. Listen to the story of the young Soviet
serviceman Vladislav Naumov's flight to Afghanistan.
Naumov: From the city of Ashkhabad, I was shipped to Afghan-
ist,ar aboard a plane. Although everyone knew where we were being
taken to, Captain Knyaev, who was accompanying, us repeatedly
talked of Poland .for some reason. Knowing -a little 'of what was
going on in Poland,,none of us had practically any doubt about
our actual destination, but there was no firm opinion about it.
The pilot would come out and say: "We're flying over the Alps."
He was joking, but there was nothing improbable about this. Then
he said: "We're flying over Poland," and, finally, when we were
nearing the end of our flight, he came out of the pilot's cabin
and informed us that we had landed in Warsaw. Only later did we
learn that we were in Kabul, and this was because we met a group
of soldiers, decorated with medals and orders, who were being
discharged. There were several wounded among them.
Salkazanova: Former Soviet soldier Vladislav Naumov is telling
us about his service in Afghanistan, about relations between
veterans and rookies, between soldiers and officers.
Naumov: In Afghanistan, I was sent to serve in the city of
Jal.alabad and was assigned to the large 66th Brigade. Jalalabad
is considered to be a hot spot--there is hardly any difference
between Jalalabad and Kandahar. The soldiers used to recite this
verse: "If you want a bullet in your butt, then take a trip to
Jalalabad." The first thing that we faced in Jalalabad was the
freedom of action on the part of the insurgents. For Soviet
soldiers the territory in Afghanistan is too limited. Only 18
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percent of the territory is under occupation. On Hay Day, the
insurgents opened mortar fire. Shells fell next to the tents
occupied by soldiers. There were dead and wounded. The number
of dead and wounded was concealed from us. It is very difficult
to estimate. the number of casualties in Afghanistan, as in
Jalalabad alone two or three and maybe even more persons are
killed every. week. The estimate provided by Western experts--
twenty to twenty-five -thousand--is just a fraction of the
casualties.. What can western theoreticians say without leaving
their offices? I`,_.would better advise them to set up an.
organization for rescuing the servicemen and providing. material
aid. This would be more effective.
The question of relations among soldiers--between the so-
called old men and the young ones--is the principal scourge as
far as "the limited contingent" is concerned. In this connec
tion, one may accord the first place to nationality relations
between officers and men. Commanding officers often take
advantage. of this to n, ai:ntain order and discipline. One officer,
for example, told me that he prefers to staff his company with
Georgians.. Here it may be noted.that soldiers are recruited into
companies so as to form national majorities and in order of their
being drafted. For example, the company's commanding officer
would take only Russians first, but second time around he would
take young Turkmen soldiers. And here national tensions would
begin. Finally, the'first Russian recruits are discharged and the
Turkmen, who by this time had-been trained by slaps from the
Russians, become "old men," and the commanding officer then
gets a new complement consisting exclusively of Russian soldiers
this time. And a new round of humiliations begins. From-this,,
one can drar~, the conclusion that officers are interested in
maintaining such a state of affairs, they are the real
instigators of antagonisms, and this is why there is no unity
among soldiers and why they cannot present their suggestions and
complaints en masse., as a body. in the Soviet army, soldiers
prefer to be each for himself and not one for all. As'far as the
officers are concerned, the soldiers simply hate them; only in
exceptional cases are they respected or appreciated-
Salkazanova: It is being said that Soviet soldiers are the
neediest soldiers in the world and that the system of "self-
supply" is very popular in the Soviet army--even in Afghanistan.
Is this true?
Naumov: Yes, soldiers try in any possible way to procure what
.is necessary. Mainly it is watches, jeans, and various trinkets
that fill the Afghan. shops to overflow. Many buy mumnyo,* ciga-
*This is a kind of dried mushroom that is reputed to be a
remedy for a number of illnesses-
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rettes, drugs, vodka., "Diplomat" briefcases. Where do the
soldiers get Afghan cu'rr-ency? During punitive expeditions, they
engage not only in extermination but also in plunder. A country-
man. of mine--an officer who had been on a first-name basis with
me--used to tell me that his soldiers had a lot of money. 'They
plunder, but I do not put a stop to them." The second method--
the most popular one---consists of selling things. I have already
mentioned that everything is for sale by everybody. The command-
ing off icer of__.a tank battalion took a whole fortune home with
hire. He used to deal in diesel oil.. To judge by everything,
the system of "self-suppl'does not apply here. It is rather a
system. of plundering., profiteering and fraud.
Salkazanova: Former Soviet serviceman.Vladislav Naumov,' who
has defected to the side of.--the--Afghan resistance fighters, is
telling. us about the morale -of'.Sov.iet soldiers in Afghanistan and
the way they spend their free time..
Naumov: In the evenings we usually congregated around our com-
bat vehicle; played the guitar and sang songs about our home, our
town; exchanged memories about-the girls we loved, our relatives,
and our friends. We also sang about Afghanistan. Here, for
example, I will recite one quatrain:
I'm going away, said the young lad through tears,
I 'llm going away, but 1`11 be back in two years.
The soldier's gone, not having seen the first spring..
He returned in a soldier's coffin made of zinc.
In a. general sense;, the songs that are sung now by soldiers
in Afghanistan resemble each othe3.': they ::ell of fallen friends,
of tough battles, of the living conditions encountered in
Afghanistan. What can one add to this? The officers, of
course, confiscate songbooks and notebooks, which are 'so
cherished by the soldiers., but even the officers sing these songs
secretly, away from the soldiers- I know of one junior officer
who has made a ,point of collecting songs about Afghanistan. I
often shared .guard duty with him and involuntarily I heard all
the songs that he had been able to collect. It is the same songs
as-sung by soldier's. .All that I have told you is just a small..
fraction--3.e.,, only an aspect--of the life of the Soviet
contingent DRA (Democratic Republic of Afghanistan).
The mood of the Soviet soldier? The first thing that
strikes one is total indifference. This indifference can be no-
ticed in combat, in one's treatment of military technology. Of
course, the soldiers are unhappy with the war and with Afghan-
istan on the whole. I believe that if this continues'much longer,
the results will'be very costly for those who have cooked up this
mess. It seems to me that the soldiers need only some officer
leaders to turn their arms in the other direction. It is now
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time to pay attention to Afghanistan What is needed is only a
beginning and then, - I think, the soldiers themselves will start
joining the insurgents. Of course, this depends not only on the
soldiers but on the officers as well. And, first and foremost,
this depends on the West_ One should counter propaganda. It is
the Communist regime's only base. This is * its root. And if you
cut the roots, something unprecedented may happen. Thus one
could liberate not only the Afghan people but Russia itself.
There are rumors circulating among soldiers about a free Russian
unit. in Afghanistan. Vadim Plotnikov, for example, left, his de-
tachment in order to find this unit. Maybe it does not exist,
but the soldiers want it-to be. Many claim to have seen it.
According to rumors, this-unit was formed by soldiers from our
Jalalabad brigade.
Saikazanova: Dc; the Soviet soldiers believe that they are
f iyhLing in Afghanistan against former mercenaries?
Naumov: The, myth about mercenaries has been shattered, as the
saying goes. The soldiers know that at present there are no for-
eign forces.in Afghanistan, with the exception of the. Soviet
ones. The officers allege that .Afghanistan is swarmed with for-
eign forces. During one operation, the officer cried to us:
"Look, the mercenaries." I looked through my rifle's telescopic
sight. People in uniform were moving in my direction, and their
actions bore no resemblance to those of ordinary insurgents. One
could see that the soldiers had completed military-training.
Several other snipers--friends of mine--were sitting next to me._
The junior officer-asked us to be more attentive and to hit the
bull's eye, as they say. I fired a shot, and a so-called mercen
ary fell to the ground. When we reached the body, we saw that it.
was an Afghan in a liberation uniform. The officer, who had
alleged that this was a mercenary, fell silent.
Salkazanova: And what do the Soviet soldiers tell about their
combat "deeds," about their ".heroic" actions in Afghanistan?
Naumov: Those soldiers who have been in combat talk about
their adventures mainly.to young and inexperienced troops. One
will not hear such talk among themselves--i.e., among the
veterans. Of course, some soldiers want to avenge the death of
.their comrades by striking at the insurgents, but let's not hurry
with conclusions_ For they also know whose fault it really is,
but one can understand them- And as for deeds...What kind of
deeds are possible in this war? Maybe just that. we tried to
rescue each other's life. But.in combat one has no choice. They
shoot at you, and you shoot back in order to survive.
Salkazanova: Everyone knows what punitive operations are all.
about. These are the operations undertaken by the Soviet army
in reprisal for every operation undertaken by the Mujahiden, the
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gun." ? The off icex climbed into the turret. The soldiers hung
the Afghan. on the gun barrel by wrapping his tied hands around
it. "Load!"---came-the order.. The gun's bolt clicked. "`Move
aside!"--ho_liared the :officer. "Disperse!" The order again:
"Fire! " The gun -oared. , A cloud of smoke and dust hung over. the
combat vehicle. There was silence. When the smoke. died away,
there was no one-hanging on the gun barrel. The shell had blown
as ay tha main's whole body. y^ie. all dispersed. There.was a. dog
running around puss that,. was obviously mad with hunger. It. was
growling and whining I went to the mess hall in the hope of
getting sore food socn._ My hope came true and, having filled'
half of my mess kit with porridge, if you can call it that, I
trudged along to get some tea and stood. in line waiting. While
wai Ling, I ate half my porridge. Next to me there stood a
bespectacled sergeant. And suddenly this sergeant cried: "Hey,.
hey., go away, you dirty beastt-" - I didn't quite get what
happened. There in front of me stood the dog.with a chunk - of - -
meat in its teeth- I looked closer and saw that it had brought
the head of the manr that -had been shot. Just a glance at this
hand was. enough to 4nake me choke, on my food- In rage I' threw my
mess kit aside and werit away, but the others continued eating as
if nothing had happened.
Salkazanova: Is. it true that there are many drug addicts among
the. Soviet soldiers? Is it true that more Soviet soldiers are
dying from disease . than from the bullets -of the Afghan insur-
cents?
Naumov: Little notice is paid to breaches of army discipline
in the 'Fortieth Army- For beating a-young soldier half to death
a regular Tray c)rrly be cautioned by an officer. Drugs? Nobody
can deal with them, because a great deal of drugs are being used.
There are these tablets.. For the most part they smoke hashish
and cocaine.. There are also those who shoot. There are not .many
of -them, of course, but there are some. The soldiers g:et hold. of
drugs by means .bf sale and exchange. They sell literally every-
thing possib.ie: -tat, butter, canned goods, soap, hardware, and
arms and ammunition.
.One could :talk forever about the living conditions of the
Soviet soldier in-the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. I will
not touch on all the problems; I am writing a book about this. I
would like tc?' read some excerpts :from my drafts.
"In July it was terribly hot. The thermometer crept. over 60
degrees. We -gook refugefrom this hell either in the river or in
a smoking area where a camouflage net had been spread out. We
quickly became weak and dried out in the heat. At that time the
sick bays were not in a position to accept people with. heat
stroke. I know of nine cases of heat stroke that proved fatal.
.How many soldiers altogether have died in Afghanistan not from
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bullets but from disease and the negligence of their commander:?
More-than half, I am sure. The diagnoses were: first, heat
stroke--every one of us had that: vomiting, severe giddine:;s,
high temperature, stomach pains, all the symptoms of dysentery;
the doctors took heat stroke for dysentery and packed the sick
off to the infectious: section. Second, pneumonia--it's not con-
sidered a disease in Afghanistan. To this day I have no idea
whether it is an infectious disease or not. I lay in the infec-
tions section with pneumonia. They discharged me on the fourth
day when my temperature fell. The doctor I -ended up with in re-
ception could not even establish a diagnosis. 'All the symptoms
of typhus,' he said. 'My lung hurts,' I corrected him. He.
listened to me and wrote pneumonia in my case history.
"On one operation we sat in the mountains for seven. hours
without water -in 65-degree heat under the open sky. Sat, or
rather stood, because it was impossible to sit, in the proper
sense of the word, on the rock.- It was red-hot like a stove.-but
our commander, of course,.. had water and food., and they provided
him with shelter from the heat with a shroud tent. I repeat,
we sat there seven hours, and then a signal came: 'Operation
canceled, all back to base.' Down below there was a small
mountain rivulet. The soldiers went leaping down from the moun-
tains to the water. We avidly _ dr_ank our fill of water, and the
sweat poured off us. Our clothing got soaked and then dried. out
and became white from the crystals of salt that dried on it..Some
jumped straight into the water with their clothes on in order to
wash off the sweat and dirt. They either had a cardiac arrest or
brain hemorrhage from the abrupt fall in temperature. Many lost
consciousness. "Those who had not gone into the water grabbed
them and dragged them out just so they would survive. Another
diagnosis is no less dangerous and serious. That is Botkin's
disease, jaundice, or hepatitis in Latin. In Afghanistan almost
everybody caught hepatitis--some two or three times. -A person
who has contracted ;hepatitis remains a cripple for life. This
disease is highly infectious. It is enough for one to catch. it,
and you have a whole epidemic that is impossible to stop. The
doctors are faced with the problem of what to do. Two or three
wounded, and during an operation maybe ten or fifteen, but the
rest, even in the surgical section, are down with hepatitis.. Some
soldiers have whole bunches of diseases. Andrei Gui.kov, for
instance, had a broken rib, jaundice, and malaria. You have
typhus and jaundice, dysentery and pneumonia, and so on. In some
areas of Afghanistan oriental boils are rampant. The bites of
Leishmanian.rnidges leave deep sores, and there are lice all. year -
round. Lice are the scourge of the Soviet army." Well, perhaps
that's enough of excerpts.
Salkazanova: Do the Soviet soldiers know about the fate of
defectors?
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March 19, 1984
-Naurnov: Many talk about defectors and think that the insur-
gents take revenge on them right away. Officers often cited ex-
amples of such actions by the partisans. So those who defect are
those in quite a hopeless situation. To me it was all the same
whether they killed me.or not. The soldiers know nothing of pris-
oners of war. Can there really be. prisoners? They kill them
all. This is also the influence of political studies. So it is
very difficult to get taken prisoner in battle. What question
can there be? Some soldiers leave the last bullet for them-
selves.
Salkazanova:,, I asked Vladisiav Naumov to describe what methods
and what weapons the Soviet forces use to fight the soldiers of
the Afghan liberation movement..
-Naumov_ Many people are talking about scorched earth tactics
all over the-woLld. This war is very much like the war against
the Basmachi--only technology is employed, of course, in all. its
applications. The main weapon, obviously, is the airforce. Mi-8
and -24 helicopters operate very effectively. The BM-23 rocket
launchers, code-named ".Grad," are used. The rocket warheads are
filled with napalm. Napalm is widely used in Afghanistan. The
artillery shells are for the most part all fragmentation mortar
shells. Aerial cluster bombs are also used. Thirty or fifty
small charges--ten-kilogram bombs--separate from one bomb, and
these destroy one square kilometer of terrain- An operation
begins with an artillery and "Grad" rocket barrage, then the
helicopters are-used; they bomb one specific area. Behind ..
them, under cover of armored vehicles, come the infantry and
assault troops that carry out the bloody reprisals in Afghan
villages.
Salkazanova: When, how, and why did you get the desire to go .
over to the side of the Afghan insurgents, and how did you,real-
ize.this desire?
Naumov: On one occasion an Afghan came to me and asked if I
couldn't steal some ammuntion and arms for him. I refused, but I
thought that he could still be of use to me, so I didn't report
him. Then all this story with the food started. The partisans
cut the road that linked us with Kabul. There began to be inter-
ruptions in the supply of foodstuffs. In the dining hall they
gave us porridge teeming with insects and a revolting puree made
of rotten maggoty potatoes. I suggested to the lads that we
refuse to eat it. That daynobody did eat it. Then I was called
to the special section. An officer threatened me. I had
developed a downright hatred of our commanders. They ate decent
food, they and their toadies. I helped the Afghans with arms and
ammunition. Of course, I never took money from them for it,.
but then the KGB discovered me all the same. I couldn't stand
the nervous strain and ran. They caught me after three days..
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Already by then I had firmly resolved to escape when any suitable
chance offered itself. They ,caught me and put me in the brigade
prison. There I was sever'ly beaten and made a monkey of_ 1
spent a month in solitary,, in a cell two meters by one. The
specials wanted to finish me off. In all this time I ate two
loaves of black bread and drank .sixty mugs of water. After that
diet I lost nearly forty kilograms. In the cell it was dark.
sizing the day it was very hot.and stuffy from the evaporation of
water heavily charged with chlorine that they continually poured
over me. Outside it was terribly hot,. and the water evaporated
on one's eyes and the chlorine bit into one's.eyes. My whole
body itched from the lice, and my hands were permanently tied.
Stuck in all this filth,, enduring the nightmare of night attacks,
seeing what the officers ate and what they fed us with, the fear
of death, the disgust at the orders we were given, at the mur-
ders, at the bombing of villages--how, after all that, could one
believe that the USSR is the finest, the most just, the greatest
country in. the world.
.I was born in Russia and escaped from it. I simply could not
..take' all this horr'o'r. I had a little longer to sit in that cell
and then my path would lead to Kabul, to the central army prison.
Finally, one fine day,,. the door was thrown open and an escort
ordered "Out!" I went .out. I was taken through a long corridor
to the. street. At. the gates stood a GAZ-24. "Get in!" ordered a
l.e=atenant. I got in. Two soldiers sat down on the sides. The
car started.. The lieutenant asked me, "Have you any complaints?"
"No," I replied; I was sitting on the back seat and sweat
poured off me in streams. The car stopped at the special
section. "Out!" I got out and they took me to an office. There
'gas nobody in the office.. I sat there alone. There was water
standing on the table. I had a great desire to drink, an
overpowering desire to drink. A major opened the door. He carne
in and sat down opposite me behind a large writing desk. The
major began the conversation gently and calmly; he even. pretended
that he sympathized with me. "Come on now,. let's introduce
ourselves. I'm Major Miroshnik, an investigator of the special
section." "Viadislav Naumov." "Fine, now we know each other.
Think carefully and try to remember everything that the man you
passed the arms to asked you about." I suddenly, had the bright
idea that I need not hurry because I had Kabul waiting for me. I
said that he had asked me some details but I had told him
nothing. I realized that the major was a chekist, that he was
not in the least interested in the arms; he did not ask me even
once.how many and what I had passed on. The major adopted a very
restrained and tactical stance. "So, Vladislav, you must help us;
we must catch your friend. You see, this matter is rather more
complicated than you think. This man may have been recruited by
the Pakistani or some other intelligence service. We must
catch him." "Yes, I understand." "So you must meet with him,
understand? You definitely must meet with him, but there's the
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,1_a es tion how.. ' don't have time now but tomorrow we will try to
think something u,p." They drove me back again to the prison.
the
With these :conversations I had missed dinner and supper,
whole day I had had nothing to eat. I asked the escort for. some
bread, my ration- In reply I got one in the.liver . "Had
enough?" "Yes;, thanks." The following day the car came at the
same time.. They took me to the. same place, into the same office.
The major met-me with a smile. "Come over to me!" He chatted
to me, as to a friend or someone even closer.. I sat down on the
cha- r. The mayor moved, his desk closer to me, spread out a
newspaper and .brought out from somewhere a can of stew and a
piece of white bread, an onion, and salt. I set about opening
the:c.an, and the major came to help me. "Eat up, eat up, and
when you have had a bit to eat, lie down and sleep, rest, we have
much to do -today." I-had something to eat, wrapped up the remains
in the newspaper., lay down on a big couch, and fell asleep there.
I was roused by the major, who had a hunting knife in his hands.
"This is fox you. Take it with you whatever happens. After,
all, he may not come alone and he may be armed. If you notice he
has a weapon, don't be afraid, stick it in. boldly, but not to
kill. I need him.." The major's eyes flashed with the excitement
oi: a hunter.. "Now., don't hesitate. If youcatch him, I'll put in
a word for-you. After all, he's guilty too, and,why.should you
---take all the responsibility alone?" Miroshnik took me for a
., he thought I would sell out Aktunat to get a lesser term
child
.for myself'. But inthis case it was the gallows. We reached the
place. Miroshnik posted guards and then kept me covered.. I.. saw
all this and did not dare to make any unnecessary movement.
Announcer: This is Radio Liberty.' You are listening to an
interview with former Soviet serviceman Vladislav Naumov, who in
the fall of last year went over to the side of the Afghan insur-
gents. 'We .continue the broadcast.
Naumov: I had prepared my flight carefully.- In the cslit had
thought out every detail, counted the steps, the minutes, the
seconds. Fox safety's sake I had decided to postpone my flight
until evening. It got dark quickly and that would help me.
Miroshnik":s car pulled up, I was. brought out of the cell, and we
set-Off.- The.major ordered the car to stop a hundred meters from
the place. I got out of. the car and went over to my former tank,
sat.-down on the turret, and waited for darkness. Beside me,
leaning on the machine gun, sat a friend of mine, from the same
part of the country, a fine chap. I am very.fond of him. He
brought me a can of water and a packet of sugar. "Eat, eat,
while nobody is -here. -If anyone comes, I'll let you know. Ah,
Vladya, what is to become of yowl If you can, run! The lads
won't shoot at you. My advice to you," he repeated, "is run!
Run, you'll be alive, and there you'll see." My heart ached at
the idea had covered each otherlin fbattle, btogether ewe . hado t parting from fedt e
once
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Marc
h, l 1984
ment! What would you like to broadcast to your relatives in.the
Soviet Union and what would you like to say to young Soviet
draftees?
Naumov: We would like to address ourselves to those people who.-,.
know us well. Don't worry about us, there is no need to be over-
sentimental; we have not betrayed you,. and we will, never forget
you: It may happen that we have to die or go away to a distant
foreign country. .Don't think badly of us. As long as we live,
we are with _you body and soul. My dear young friends,,. if you
have, to come--to Afghanistan, don't forget one- thing--that is is
impossible to make war on an entire people. These are not my
words, they are the words of a soldier, prisoner of war. I am not
calling on you to go over to the side of the insurgents or to go
the the Free World. The only thing I do beg of you is to refuse
to commit. crimes. I would also like to address the mothers whose
sons have fallen or are missing in the mountains of a foreign
land. I am not going to try to reassure you: raise your heads,
say your say, tell as much as you can about the unjust war, say
just. that your children died in Afghanistan.
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