CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY RETIREMENT ACT OF 1963 FOR CERTAIN EMPLOYEES

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 16
• Document Creation Date: December 27, 2016
• Document Release Date: July 5, 2013
• Sequence Number: 16
• Publication Date: October 30, 1963
• Content Type: OPEN SOURCE

Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
?!.
1963 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD - HOUSE
Naval radio station, Sugar Grove, W. Va.
The Senate restored $3,480,000 requested
by the Navy to permit the transfer of Navy
radio receiving facilities from Cheltenham,
Md., to Sugar Grove, W. Va. The Senate
conferees pointed out that due to continu-
ally rising high noise levels at the existing
installation, the receiving facilities at Chel-
tenham must be moved to another location.
Since the Sugar Grove site is ideally suited
for this purpose, advantage can be taken of
the existing investment of the Navy at this
present location. The House receded from
its position and accepted the Senate amend-
ment.
Classified naval installations
The Senate authorized four construction
projects for naval installations at Puerto
Rico in the amount of $8,437,000. These
items had previously been deleted by the
House. The House conferees insisted that
these projects could be properly deferred un-
til the fiscal year 1965 program. The Senate
conferees receded from their position and
accepted the House deletion.
The Senate deleted two projects for Rota,
Spain, and a communication facility at an-
other location in the total amount of $10,-
351,000. These items had previously been
approved by the House. The, Senate con-
ferees pointed out that these projects could
safely be deferred until the fiscal year 1965
program. The House conferees receded from
their position and accepted the Senate dele-
tions.
As a consequence of the foregoing changes,
the authorization to the Secretary of the
Navy for the development of classified naval
installations was reduced from $71,532,000
to a new figure of $63,095,000.
Randolph Air Force Base, San Antonio, Tex.
The Senate authorized $3,044,000 for con--
struction and related improvements at this
location. The House had previously author-
ized only $1,475,000. The major difference in
the House and Senate action was the refusal
of the House to provide $2,087,000 required
for alterations to the headquarters building
at Randolph to house all Air Force person-
nel management facilities at that location.
The Senate conferees were of the opinion
that the increased management efficiency
and economies that would result from the
centralization of personnel management fa-
cilities at Randolph would more than justify
the construction cost involved in this re-
location. The House conferees, therefore,
receded from their position and accepted the
Senate amendment.
Laredo Air Force Base, Laredo, Tex.
The House had provided authorization in
the amount of $3,134,000 to be accomplished
at an air training command facility to be
selected by the Department of Defense. The
House Committee on Armed Services in testi-
mony provided it by witnesses of the De-
partment of the Air Force was of the opinion
that this construction would be effected at
Laredo Air Force Base. This opinion was
subsequently confirmed by correspondence
received from the Department, Subsequent-
ly, the Senate in acting on this authorization
request, deleted the item, in its entirety.
The House conferees pointed out that a
serious deficit in the number of pilots in the
Air Force will exist throughout the foresee-
able future unless the production of new
pilots is increased. The House conferees also
pointed out that Laredo Air Force Base is
ideally suited for this purpose. However,
construction is required to insure appro-
priate training facilities for the pilot train-
ing which should occur at this base.
The Senate conferees were of the opinion
that this entire project could be deferred
another year. After considerable discussion,
the conferees agreed to provide the first in-
crement of construction authorization for
No, 174-13
Laredo Air Force Base amounting to $275,000.
This authorization would permit the elimina-
tion of a lighting deficiency on the runway
approach to the base.
The remaining line items for Laredo Air
Force Base which were deferred should be
resubmitted by the Department for recon-
sideration by the House in connection with
the Department's fiscal year 1965 construc-
tion authorization request. Thus, this item
will be given new consideration in the next
90 days.
Bolling Air Force Base, Washington, D.C.
As in the case of Fort Myer, Va., the
Senate believed that some provision must
be made to provide adequate quarters for
bachelor military personnel in the Wash-
ington area and, therefore, restored $4 mil-
lion of the amount requested for troop
housing at Bolling Air Force Base. The
original request made by the Department
and deleted by the House amounted to $6.9
million. The House receded from its posi-
tion and accepted the Senate amendment.
SUMMARY OF THE BILL
Differences in dollar authorization
As the bill passed the House, the total
authorities granted amounted to $1,636,-
828,000.
The corresponding authority granted in
the Senate version of the bill totaled $1,-
685,861,380, or $49,033,380 more than the
House version.
The total agreed to by the conferees is
$5,425,000 more than the House version and
$43,608,000 less than the Senate version.
Total authorization, fiscal year 1964, as ap-
proved by House-Senate conferees
New authorization:
Title I (Army)
Title II (Navy)
Title III (Air Force)
Title IV (Defense agencies) _
Title V (housing)
$199, 633, 000
202, 462, 000
488, 367,000
24, 403, 000
685, 312, 000
Subtotal 1, 600, 177,000
Deficiency authorization:
Title I (Army) 3, 209, 000
Title II (Navy) 87,000
Title III (Air Force) 166, 000
Total
Title VII (Reserve compo-
nents) :
Army National Guard
Army Reserve
Naval and Marine Corps
Reserve
Air National Guard
Air Force Reserve
Total
Deficiency authorizations:
Army National Guard
Army Reserve
3,462, 000
7, 500, 000
4, 700,000
5, 700, 000
15, 970, 380
4,600, 000
38, 470, 380
84, 000
60, 000
Total 144,000
Grand total of all au-
thorizations 1, 642, 253, 380
CARL VINSON,
L. MENDEL RIVERS,
PHILIP J. PHILBIN,
LESLIE C. ARENDS,
F. EDWARD HEBERT,
WALTER NORBLAD,
WILLIAM H. BATES,
Managers on the Part of the House.
CALL OF THE HOUSE
Mr. GROSS. Mr. Speaker, I make the
point of order that a quorum is not
present.
19587
The SPEAKER. Evidently a quorum
is not present.
Mr. ALBERT. Mr. Speaker, I move
a call of the House.
A call of the House was ordered.
The Clerk called the roll, and the fol-
lowing Members failed to answer to their
names:
Abernethy
Baring
Bolton,
Oliver P.
Bonner
Brock
Buckley
Burton
Caller
Davis, Tenn.
Dawson
Dent
Derwinski
Diggs
Dowdy
Feighan
Ford
Fraser
Fuqua
Grant
Green, Pa.
Harding
Harris
Harsha
[Roll No. 186)
Harvey, Ind. Pelly
Harvey, Mich. Pepper
Herlong Powell
Hoffman Purcell
Horan Randall
Jones, Ala. Reid, Ill.
Karth Riehlman
Kee
Kelly
Kilburn
Lankford
Long, La.
McMillan
Macdonald
Mailliard
Martin, Calif.
Mathias
May
Miller, N.Y.
Montoya
Morrison
Morton, Md.
Nedzi
O'Brien, Ill.
Roberts, Ala.
Roberts, Tex.
St. Onge
Scott
Shelley
Sickles
Skubitz
Springer
Stafford
Stinson
Taft
Taylor
Thompson, La.
Thompson, N.J.
Tollef son
Utt
White
The SPEAKER. On this rollcall 362
members have answered to their names,
a quorum.
By unanimous consent, further pro-
ceedings under the call were dispensed
with.
COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
Mr. MILLS. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan-
imous consent that the Committee on
Ways and Means have until midnight
Monday, November 4, 1963, to file a re-
port on H.R. 8969, along with any mi-
nority or supplemental views thereon.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
the request of the gentleman from Ar-
kansas?
There was no objection.
CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
RETIREMENT ACT OF 1963 FOR
CERTAIN EMPLOYEES
Mr. DELANEY. Mr. Speaker, by di-
rection of the Committee on Rules, I
call up House Resolution 543 and ask
for its immediate consideration.
The Clerk read as follows:
Resolved, That upon the adoption of this
resolution it shall be in order to move that
the House resolve itself into the Committee
of the Whole House on the State of the
Union for the consideration of the bill (HR.
8427) to provide for the establishment and
maintenance of a Central Intelligence Agency
Retirement and Disability System for a lim-
ited number of employees, and for other pur-
poses. After general debate, which shall be
confined to the bill and shall continue not
to exceed two hours, to be equally divided
and controlled by the chairman and ranking
minority member of the Committee on
Armed Services, the bill shall be read for
amendment under the five-minute rule. At
the conclusion of the consideration of the
bill for amendment, the Committee shall rise
and report the bill to the House with such
amendments as may have been adopted, and
the previous question shall be considered as
ordered on the bill and amendments thereto
to final passage without intervening motion
except one motion to'recommit.
Mr. DELANEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield
30 minutes to the gentlewoman from
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
19588 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE October 34`
New York [Mrs. ST. GEORGE] and, pend-
ing that, I yield myself such time as I
may consume.
Mr. Speaker, House Resolution 543
provides for consideration of H.R. 8427,
a bill to provide for the establishment
and maintenance of a Central Intelli-
gence Agency retirement and disability
system for a limited number of employ-
ees, and for other purposes. The resolu-
tion provides an open rule with 2 hours
of general debate.
At the present time all employees of
the Central Intelligence Agency are lim-
ited to the normal civil service retire-
ment benefits. On the other hand, more
liberal retirement benefits have been in
effect for many years for the Foreign
Service and for certain personnel en-
gaged in investigation and detection of
crime and apprehension of criminals.
Many CIA employees serve under condi-
tions which are at the least as difficult
and frequently more dangerous than the
conditions which led to improved retire-
ment benefits for the Foreign Service and
certain personnel of the FBI and other
agencies. CIA employees who will come
under the proposed system are obligated
to serve anywhere in the world according
to the needs of the Agency, as is the case
in the Foreign Service and the military,
and unlike the normal civil service em-
ployees. It seems only right that such
employess should receive benefits similar
to those benefits received by Foreign
Service personnel.
Mr. Speaker, I urge adoption of House
Resolution 543.
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, I
yield myself such time as I may con-
sume.
Mr. Speaker, this resolution, as has
already been stated, makes in order the
consideration of H.R. 8427 to provide for
the establishment and maintenance of a
Central Intelligence Agency retirement
and disability system for a limited num-
ber of employees, and for other pur-
poses.
Mr. Speaker, the Committee on Rules
held hearings on H.R. 8427 on October
9, 1963. The Armed Services Commit-
tee hearings and the report on H.R. 8427
stressed that only those employees en-
gaged in the conduct and support of in-
telligence activities, meaning hazardous
duty or service in foreign countries, will
be eligible for an improved retirement
and disability program. This, of course,
we all agree is right and proper and,
indeed, necessary.
Mr. Speaker, during the Rules Com-
mittee hearings it was brought out that
the bill itself did not contain the lan-
guage limiting the program to em-
ployees on such duty. However, in
the course of our deliberations it was
suggested that an amendment would be
offered by the committee. To this, I am
happy to say the Committee on Armed
Services and the subcommittee agreed
wholeheartedly.
Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding
that this amendment will be offered on
page 3, beginning at line 13 and going
through line 21. This would tighten up
the bill. It will write into the bill exact-
ly what the committee intended. It
will make a differential between people
Who are performing simply ordinary duty
in CIA and those who are indeed on
hazardous occupations.
Mr. Speaker, I think with this amend-
ment there is certainly no objection to
the bill and I urge the adoption of the
rule.
Mr. GROSS. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentlewoman yield?
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. I yield to my
friend, the gentleman from Iowa [Mr.
GROSS].
Mr. GROSS. Was any explanation
given to the Committee on Rules as to
why this bill went to the Committee on
Armed Services of the House of Rep-
resentatives rather than to the Com-
mittee on Post Offices and Civil Service
which handles other retirement legisla-
tion?
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Well, it was my
understanding, may I say to the gentle-
man from Iowa, that the CIA has usually
been under the Defense Department.
Therefore, it was considered proper that
this should go to the Committee on
Armed Services. I do not think there
was very much questioning on that par-
ticular subject, may I say to the gentle-
man from Iowa.
Mr. GROSS. Is the CIA subject to the
jurisdiction of the Secretary of De-
fense?
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. No one seems
to know to whom they are subject, I may
say to the gentleman. One cannot find
out how many people are employed in
the Agency and one cannot find out ex-
actly what their duties are. We heard
varying figures. It is a very hush-hush,
secret organization.
As long as the gentleman brings the
subject up, I think we might also say
that Americans are not very accustomed
to dealing with cloak-and-dagger or-
ganizations. This is one, perhaps, that
we are not too well fitted to discuss.
Mr. GROSS. I am sure we all had dif-
ficulty finding out what part the CIA
played in the Bay of Pigs fiasco.
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. I agree with the
gentleman. It is very difficult to find
these things out but, perhaps, that has
to be so in an organization of this kind.
Mr. RYAN of New York. Mr. Speaker,
will the gentlewoman yield?
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. I yield to the gen-
tleman from New York.
Mr. RYAN of New York. I was inter-
ested in the remarks of the gentlewoman
concerning the CIA and the cloak of se-
crecy surrounding it. I am reminded
that there are a number of bills pending
in the Congress. I am the author of one,
House Joint Resolution 145, which would
establish a special watchdog committee
over the CIA. Certainly recent events
in South Vietnam confirm the need for a
Joint Committee on Foreign Information
and Intelligence to oversee the CIA. I
hope the Rules Committee will report out
one these bills with as much expedition
as this bill has been reported out.
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. I am a very hum-
ble member of the Rules Committee, so I
can do very little in assisting the gentle-
man in his desires.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Speaker, will the gentlewoman yield?
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. I yield to the gen-
tleman from South Carolina.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Speaker, under - the Natikal Security
Act of 1947, the CIA was created and it
came under the National Security Act in
the Defense Department. We had juris-
diction over the National Security Act,
which is the reason we bring in this bill.
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. I knew it was
proper that the CIA should be under the
Committee on Armed Services. It always
has been.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Un-
der the law we have jurisdiction over
the National Security Act. The CIA
was created under the National Security
Act. It is as simple as that. Of course,
it is responsible to the President of the
United States.
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. It is an organiza-
tion that is primarily engaged in the
defense of our country, therefore it is
proper that it should be under the gen-
tleman's committee.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. The
gentlewoman is absolutely correct.
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, I
yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from
California [Mr. SMITH].
(Mr. SMITH of California asked and
was given permission to revise and ex-
tend his remarks.)
Mr. SMITH of California. Mr.
Speaker, as stated by the gentlewoman
from New York, there were questions in
the minds of members of the Rules Corn-
mittee as to whether the language in
this bill will do what the proponents
want it to do. Accordingly, certain
amendments were worked out. The
gentlewoman from New York [Mrs. ST.
GEORGE] showed them to me, and I sug-
gested that the language be further tied
together to make certain that we are re-
ferring to those employees abroad who
are also engaged in hazardous work.
The amendment does not do that. It
will include every employee working
abroad. At the time, I told the gentle-
woman from New . York [Mrs. ST.
GEORGE] that even if this amendment
were agreed to, that I personally would
not support the bill.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. SMITH of California. I yield to
the gentleman from South Carolina.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
assure the gentleman right now that is
not the intention, that is as the gentle-
man stated it.
Mr. SMITH of California. That is
the way your amendment reads.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
do not think so, and we do not consider
it as such. In my later discussion I
will cover the history of this legislation
so that there will be no question about
it.
Mr. SMITH of California. I think it
would be much better if we took sections
1 and 2 and placed them in this law so
that we know that, rather than making
legislative history, so that the two would
be tied together. I personally am not
in support of this particular bill.
Mr. Speaker, I am not refusing to sup-
port this measure because I do not be-
lieve that the employees are entitled to
it. My refusal is because I just do not
know whether or not they are entitled to
it. I know so little about the CIA and
their activities, that I do not wish to pass
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
?
iD63
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE 19589
further legislation which will further in-
crease my lack of knowledge. It seems
to me that Congress not only has the
right, but that it has the responsibility
to know more about the CIA.
I understand that senior members of
the House and Senate committees meet
from time to time with the CIA Director,
and that in 1956 a President's Board of
Consultants on Foreign Intelligence Ac-
tivities was established. But even so,
I do not know how thoroughly they
check the activities of the CIA.
As supervisor of espionage, sabotage,
plant protection, communism and inter-
nal security investigations in the Los
Angeles office of the FBI prior to and
during a portion of World Wax II, I am
aware that this work is sometimes haz-
ardous. There is no doubt that if the
CIA is doing its job in espionage and
counterespionage, that some of the em-
ployees are engaged in hazardous work.
But in many ways, it is probably no more
hazardous than that of the FBI, the
Secret Service, the Narcotics Bureau, or
for that matter, the daily work of many
policemen here in Washington, D.C.
I repeat, Mr. Speaker, I am not oppos-
ing this measure because I do not think
CIA is deserving of it. It is because of
the fact that I know so little about their
activities. I am not criticizing the CIA
or commending them, because again I do
not know enough of their activities to
take either position. But I do have
some questions in my mind that I be-
lieve should be answered. And I believe
they can be answered without interfer-
ing with their activities. How many
employees are there in the CIA?-1,000,
5,000, 10,000, 15,000 or more. I am in-
clined to feel that there are probably
more than 15,000 but have nothing to
factually so state. How many employees
are there in London?
England has its own intelligence and
counterintelligence people. We are close
allies. If CIA is engaged in counter-
intelligence activities in London, they
certainly must be working directly with
appropriate English authorities. I
would like to know the answer to this.
Certainly if the English authorities had
any evidence of espionage in the United
States, or wished any information, they
could send one man to see Director
Hoover of the FBI, and appropriate in-
vestigation would be commenced within
the hour, throughout the United States
if necessary, and the English investi-
gator would be kept completely in-
formed. If there are 200 employees in
London, which I have heard, but cannot
state as a fact, what are they doing? I
think we are entitled to know something
about this, Mr. Speaker.
Testimony before Rules indicated that
this measure would apply to about 30
percent of the employees. I ask 30 per-
cent of how many. I also think we are
entitled to know something about what
their activities were prior to the Bay of
Pigs in Cuba. I have heard rumors that
their information was incorrect and that
the CIA was greatly responsible for this
horrible event. Should Members of Con-
gress not be entitled to know of these
activities and to in some way have at
least a little control over the CIA? Very
frankly, Mr. Speaker, I anticipate that
Khruslichev and even the Russian Em-
bassy here in Washington know more
about CIA than I do. Why is it so con-
fidential that the Members of Congress
do not know the annual cost of the CIA?
It would not surprise me if it were more
than a billion dollars annually.
I have great confidence in the Mem-
bers of Congress. Certainly no Member
would think of doing anything to harm
our security. So it seems to me that we
should have some select committee, or a
watchdog committee, or some small
group that could honestly and fairly
check upon and with the CIA so that the
rest of the Members would have some
idea as to what is going on, whether we
are doing our job so far as the CIA is
concerned, and whether or not legisla-
tion such as the pending bill is war-
ranted.
After the hearing in Rules and the
newspaper accounts, I received some
anonymous letters from persons stating
they were employees of the CIA. Some
of the comments were:
If CIA were bent on wrecking the morale
of its employees, it could not find a better
instrument than this vicious piece of leg-
islation which will result in attracting an
inferior group of employees.,
Another quote:
I personally would benefit from this bill,
but it is obvious just in my circle that the
bill will result in a lessening of the inter-
est and dedication of CIA employees. Al-
ready employees in their thirties are making
plans to get advanced degrees by going to
night school, thereby lessening the effective-
ness of their daily work, in order to get a
better position outside when their 50th birth-
day comes around. I suggest. that you con-
sult not the "chiefs" but some of the "In-
dians" in CIA to gain a true picture of what
is involved in this proposed personnel policy.
I repeat once again, Mr. Speaker, that
I have no intentions whatsoever of caus-
ing any harm to the CIA. I want to do
everything I can to help. But I just
cannot support legislation to further
compound a mystery, and thus I am op-
posed to this measure.
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, I
yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from
Kansas [Mr. AVERY].
Mr. AVERY. Mr. Speaker, I urge the
adoption of the rule. It has been so well
explained I cannot think of anything
further I could add. However, I notice
the presence on the floor of the major-
ity leader, and would appreciate his at-
tention. I notice the other body was ad-
vised yesterday as to how they might
proceed to plan for the weeks ahead.
It was helpful indeed to learn that their
Thanksgiving recess has already been
fixed. Their Christmas schedule has al-
ready become a matter of record. I won-
der if we could be privileged to have the
same information in this body.
Mr. ALBERT. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. AVERY. I would be delighted to
yield to the gentleman from Oklahoma.
Mr. ALBERT. First of all, this is a
matter that would be cleared on both
sides of the aisle, but I would like to
remind the gentleman that the Veterans'
Day vacation in the other body is from
November 8 to November 12. That
means Friday, Saturday, and Monday.
I would think that we could assume that
we might do that well.
Mr. AVERY. That we would have
Sunday off and possibly Monday as well?
Mr. ALBERT. I would think so, not
committing myself.
Mr. AVERY. Now could the gentle-
man proceed further?
Mr. ALBERT. Then for Thanksgiving,
as I understand it, there will be a recess
In the Senate on the 27, 28, and 29 of
November. I will, take upon my own
shoulders the complete responsibility to
assure the gentleman that he will have
that much time off for Thanksgiving,
that is, 3 days.
Mr. AVERY. Will the gentleman pro-
ceed from this point on?
Mr. ALBERT. I am not in a position
to make a commitment at this time.
Mr. HALLECK. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. AVERY. I yield to our distin-
guished minority leader.
Mr. HALLECK. I would just like to
say to the gentleman, and for all the
Members of the House, I have had the
greatest solicitude for the Members'
convenience, and I realize, of course, the
situation that confronts our colleagues,
and so far as my own personal situation
is concerned, I would like to know in
advance what we can figure on and de-
pend on as to the arrangements. I have
spoken to the majority leader and to the
distinguished Speaker of the House about
the whole situation, and as far as I am
concerned, I want to say to my friend,
the gentleman from Kansas, I shall do
all I can to try to work out some advance
arrangement for the balance of the year
because apparently, we are going to be
here until we start on the next session.
Mr. AVERY. Then is it reasonable,
Mr. Speaker, to summarize, if I may,
what I have heard from the distin-
guished majority leader and the dis-
tinguished minority leader, that the
statement in the other body that this
session is going to be "back-to-back"
with the next session?is this a reason-
able assumption that we probably will
continue in session to the Christmas
holidays? Would the gentleman from
Oklahoma care to respond to that?
Mr. ALBERT. I think the gentleman
has the same knowledge of the legisla-
tive program as the gentleman from
Oklahoma.
Mr. AVERY. The gentleman from
Oklahoma pays me a great tribute and
I am not sure it is deserved.
Mr. ALBERT. I am sure it is true.
I am sure all the Members of the House
know what legislation is still outstand-
ing which must be acted upon, and I
think the statement that the gentleman
refers to as having been made in the
other body could well be correct. But I
want to join the distinguished minority
leader in doing everything I can, and I
am sure that in saying this I speak for
our distinguished Speaker of the House
also, in trying to determine when and
how much time Members of the House
can have off consistent with the legisla-
tive responsibilities of the House of
Representatives.
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
19590 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
Mr. AVERY. May I say, Mr. Speaker,
I may appear to be facetious, but I did
not mean to be so. This is getting to be
a serious situation. We have all made
commitments considerably in advance
for this time of the year when we could
reasonably assume that we would be in
our districts, and it is embarrassing to
many of us to have to break our commit-
ments.
Mr. GROSS. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. AVERY. I yield to the gentleman
from Iowa.
Mr. GROSS. In any event I wonder
if, when this program is firmed up for
the remainder of this year, if it might
not be announced in the House rather
than through the newspapers and over
the radio.
Mr. ALBERT. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. AVERY. I yield to the gentleman.
Mr. ALBERT. I think that any an-
nouncement that the majority leader will
make, and I am sure I am speaking for
both sides on this matter, will be made
first to the House of Representatives and
not first to the press or to anyone else.
Mr. CEDERBERG. Mr. Speaker, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. AVERY. I yield to the gentle-
man.
Mr. CEDERBERG. Would the dis-
tinguished majority leader advise us if
it might not be possible rather than to
have a new session start on January 3 to
have it start later on in the month and
to request the President to bring in the
state of the Union message and the new
budget message late in January because
we will not be finished with the old
budget anyway until we get the new one.
If we can get that, maybe we can get a
couple of days vacation.
Mr. ALBERT. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. AVERY. I yield to the gentle-
man.
Mr. ALBERT. First of all, that would
have to be done by a joint resolution or
a concurrent resolution because the law
requires that the Congress convene on
January 3. I think here again it would
depend on the legislative situation. Cer-
tainly, it would be a convenience to the
Members individually, and to me per-
sonally, if we could do so. That is as far
as I can go at this time with respect to
that sort of arrangement.
Mr. COLLIER. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. AVERY. I yield to the gentleman.
Mr. COLLIER. In the light of the
urgency of the problems before the Con-
gress this year, is it possible that we
might run into this situation during the
two national conventions in 1964?
Mr. AVERY. That question should
certainly be more properly addressed to
one in a position more able to respond
than the gentleman now in the well.
May I express my appreciation to the
gentleman from Oklahoma, and I am
sure I speak for all Members present, for
the enlightenment we have received to-
day.
I yield back the balance of my time.
Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, I
have no further requests for time.
Mr. DELANEY. Mr. Speaker, I move
the previous question.
The previous question was ordered.
The resolution was agreed to.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the
table.
ELECTION TO COMMITTEE
Mr. HALLECK. Mr. Speaker, I offer
a privileged resolution and ask for its
immediate consideration.
The Clerk read as follows:
Resolved, That MARK ANDREWS, of North
Dakota, be, and he is hereby elected a mem-
ber of the standing committee of the House
of Representatives on Interior and Insular
Affairs.
The resolution (H. Res. 561) was
agreed to.
A motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
RETIREMENT ACT OF 1963 FOR
CERTAIN EMPLOYEES
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Speaker, I move that the House resolve
itself into the Committee of the Whole
House on the State of the Union for the
consideration of the bill (H.R. 8427) to
provide for the establishment and main-
tenance of a Central Intelligence Agency
Retirement and Disability System for a
limited number of employees, and for
other purposes.
The motion was agreed to; accord-
ingly, the House resolved itself into the
Committee of the Whole House on the
State of the Union for the consideration
of the bill H.R. 8427 with Mr. THOMAS
in the Chair.
IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
By unanimous consent, the first read-
ing of the bill was dispensed with.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman
from South Carolina [Mr. RIVERS] will
be recognized for 1 hour and the gentle-
man from Massachusetts [Mr. BATES]
will be recognized for 1 hour.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, I yield myself such time as I
may require.
Mr. Chairman, H.R. 8427 is a bill to
give the Central Intelligence Agency a
better retirement system for a limited
number of its employees.
At the present time, all regular em-
ployees of the Agency are covered by the
normal civil service retirement system.
Many positions in the CIA do not war-
rant special retirement treatment of
course, but about 30 percent of the total
employees work under conditions which
clearly require an improved retirement
and disability system.
I would like to point out that this leg-
islation establishes no precedent since it
was determined that the Agency retire-
ment system should be patterned after
that now applicable to the Foreign Serv-
ice.
Careful examination indicated that
the Foreign Service system had sufficient
flexibility and other improvements to
meet CIA's requirements. The CIA pre-
sented convincing proof that those em-
October fo
ployees to be covered serve under condi-
tions which are at least comparable with
the Foreign Service and in many cases
more dangerous and at great personal
sacrifice to the employees.
As a member of the CIA Subcommittee
of the House Armed Services Committee,
I had previously learned a great deal
about the activities of the Agency and
the sacrifices called for on the part of its
employees. During the course of 4 days'
extensive hearings on H.R. 8427 before
the House Armed Services Committee,
Agency witnesses were candid and fully
cooperative in presenting their need for
this improved retirement system. For
reasons of security I am unable to pre-
sent the specific situations which dem-
onstrate the need for this new system.
It is pertinent to point out, however,
that, with respect to this group of em-
ployees, all are Considered to be on 24-
hour duty, 7 days a week, and are obli-
gated in writing to serve anywhere in the
world that Agency needs would require.
Upon my initial assignment to the CIA
subcommittee, it came as a surprise to
me to learn that all Agency employees
received only the normal civil service re-
tirement benefits. I had assumed there
was a program to afford earlier retire-
ment, such as that available to the For-
eign Service or the benefits offered to
agents of the Federal Bureau of Investi-
gation, which enables the agent to re-
tire voluntarily at age 50 upon comple-
tion of 20 years of service.
The CIA's need to have a young and
virile group of career people manning
their oversea posts needs no elabora-
tion. I became personally convinced of
the need for this type of program as a
result of months of briefings presented
to the CIA Subcommittte of the House
Armed Services Committee. The hear-
ings on H.R. 8427 convinced me that this
legislation is the appropriate means to
put into effect an improved retirement
system.
Now, as to the legislation.
One of the key features is the right of
the employee to apply for voluntary re-
tirement upon reaching age 50 if he has
a minimum of 20 years of service. Such
retirement, however, must be with the
consent of the Director, and in special
cases where a man's services are still
needed he will be required to serve until
the Agency's requirements have been
met.
Another important feature of this bill
is the authority of the Agency to retire
people when it is determined that this is
the best course of action. In this situa-
tion, where the employee is in a grade
of GS-14 and above he will, upon being
retired, receive an immediate annuity
regardless of age. The amount of this
annuity in the case of a man with 20
years of service would be 40 percent of
the highest average annual salary for
any 5 consecutive years. The commit-
tee examined this provision most care-
fully and the bill H.R. 8427 reflects a
change we made that in order to qualify
for this immediate annuity the individ-
ual must have had at least 5 years of
what is termed "qualifying service,"
which means service of a nature which
would fit him to be covered by the system.
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
'963 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
In addition, he must have had at least
10 years of total service with the Agency.
The committee did not believe that
transferees from other agencies should
be eligible to qualify for this type of an-
nuity without substantial periods of both
qualifying service and general service
with CIA. Where the person involun-
tarily retired is in grade GS-13 or below
he may elect, if he has at least 5 years
of service with the Agency, to leave his
contributions in the fund and draw a
deferred annuity at age 60, or he may
simply draw out his contributions. In
addition he would be granted separation
pay based on a month's salary for each
year of service, but in no event to exceed
a total of 1 year's salary. The commit-
tee believes this provision is generally
in line with separation compensation
available in military service and is not
unreasonable where a man has joined the
Agency with the expectation of a career
and because of shifts in requirements
is unable to be retained by the Agency.
This separation compensation will per-
mit him a period of readjustment, pos-
sibly taking necessary training to equip
himself for a position in industry or in
another branch of Government.
I believe this new system will be an
extremely valuable tool in the manage-
ment of the Agency and will materially
assist in attracting and retaining the
extremely high caliber men and women
the Agency needs for its demanding pro-
grams. As indicated by the published
hearings and the report, the Armed Serv-
ices Committee has looked painstakingly
at this proposal and has examined
Agency witnesses most carefully. Where
necessary, the committee made changes
from the original proposal, which you
will find in the report.
The cost is reasonable, leveling off at
about $580,000 per year.
Let us turn for a moment to the re-
cent press criticism of the Central In-
telligence Agency. Obviously such criti-
cism is not the proper basis to form a
judgment on this bill?indeed it is not
a proper basis on which to form a judg-
ment of the Agency itself. The scope
and ferocity of these press attacks
brought a response?not from the Agen-
cy which very properly should not and
does not respond to press criticism?the
response was from the President. He
was asked about a recent story on CIA
in his press conference on October 9. I
quote his answer:
I must say I think the reports are wholly
untrue. The fact of the matter is that Mr.
McCone (CIA Director) sits in the National
Security Council * * * we have worked very
closely together in the National Security
Council in the last 2 months attempting to
meet the problems we faced in South Viet-
nam. I can find nothing, and I have looked
through tip record very carefully over the
last 9 months, and I could go back further,
to indicate that the CIA has done anything
but support policy. It does not create pol-
icy; it attempts to execute it in those areas
where it has competence and responsibility.
I know that the transfer of Mr. John Rich-
ardson, who is a very dedicated public serv-
ant, has led to surmises, but I can just as-
sure you flatly that the CIA has not carried
out independent activities but has operated
Under close control of the Director of Central
Intelligence, operating with the cooperation
of the National Security Council and under
my instructions * * " I think they have done
a good job.
As a member of the CIA Subcommittee
of the House Armed Services Committee,
I believe I am also in a position to make
a judgment on the Agency. In my opin-
ion, I believe the Agency is doing a bril-
liant job under most trying circum-
stances.
.For those who contend that the Con-
gress fails to exercise supervision over
CIA, I would like to state the facts. The
Armed Services Committee has legisla-
tive jurisdiction over CIA and for many
years, the gentleman from Georgia [Mr.
VmsoN] has appointed a subcommittee
whose sole function is to review Agency
activities. This subcommittee present-
ly has as its chairman, the gentleman
from Georgia, Mr. CARL VINSON, and I am
proud to serve under him on this sub-
committee. The other Members are: F.
EDWARD HEBERT, MELVIN PRICE, CHARLES
E. BENNETT, GEORGE HIIDDLESTON, JR.,
LESLIE C. ARENDS, WILLIAM G. BRAY, BOB
WILSON, and FRANK C. OSMERS, JR.
As a matter of policy, the subcommit-
tee has endeavored to meet with the Di-
rector and other Agency officials at least
once a month to conduct an examina-
tion of its activities on a worldwide basis.
In the course of these hearings we re-
ceive substantive intelligence briefings
to keep us up to date on happenings
throughout the world. It is the purpose
of the subcommittee to fully inform it-
self on all aspects of Agency operations
including its organizational structure
and personnel practices. The Director
of Central Intelligence has explored with
the subcommittee the 'most sensitive of
Agency operations in order that the
members be fully informed. ?
At time I, as a member, am concerned
with the sensitivity of this information
and its serious nature for fear that I
might inadvertently endanger someone's
life or a highly successful operation.
The Director of Central Intelligence
has been most candid with the subcom-
mittee in discussing plans for future ac-
tivities and we have witnessed a num-
ber of significant improvements in the
Agency since the current Director has
been in office. On occasion the subcom-
mittee has deemed it necessary to con-
duct thorough reviews of the Agency to
assure itself that all possible steps were
being taken by CIA and the intelligence
community as a whole to insure that
adequate intelligence is available to those
who must make the policy decisions?
further, to insure that policymakers
have the benefit of as full information
as possible including skilled evaluation
of the raw information utilizing thor-
oughly professional analysis and re-
search.
As to CIA conducting independent op-
eration in pursuance of its own policy,
the subcommittee has examined very
closely the machinery by which the
Agency is in fact responsible to the pol-
icymakers. Under the existing proced-
ural machinery, the Agency simply can-
not operate independently nor does it in
fact operate as a policymaking organ of
Government. The Director is directly
responsible to the President and estab-
19591
lished procedures insure that the opera-
tions of the Agency are in fact coordi-
nated with and responsive to the policies
of the Government. I might add that
this is true not only at the national level
but it is also true at the embassy level
in foreign countries where the para-
mount role of the Ambassador is ac-
cepted by all agencies.
However, let us return to H.R. 8427
which is the issue today.
The committee has unanimously sup-
ported this legislation, and I urge the
Members of the House to judge it on its
merits. I am sure most of you will view
It favorably.
Before I conclude, I would like to ad-
vise the House that I propose to offer an
amendment to HR. 8427 to clarify the
kind of duty that must be performed
before the Director can designate the
individuals who will be permitted to par-
ticipate in this liberalized retirement
, system.
I discussed this matter with members
of the Rules Committee and members of
my committee, and I propose to offer
an amendment to section 203 of the bill.
Under this section, as it is now written,
the Director may designate the officers
and employees who will be entitled to
the benefits of the system. The amend-
ment I will offer would change the lan-
guage to read as follows:
On page 3, lines 13 to 16, strike out
the first sentence of section 203, and sub-
stitute in lieu thereof the following lan-
guage:
The Director may designate from time to
time such Agency officers and employees
whose duties are determined by the Director
to be (1) in support of Agency activities
abroad hazardous to life Or health or (ii) so
specialized because of security requirements
as to be clearly distinguishable from normal
Government employment, hereafter referred
to as participants, who shall be entitled to
the benefits of the system.
Mr. WAGGONNER. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I am
constrained to yield to my friend, the
gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. WAG-
GONNER] .
Mr. WAGGONNER. I have been ad-
vised that in this proposed legislation
there are the usual prohibitions against
drawing retirement pay in cases involv-
ing personnel who are reemployed by the
Government by some other agency; is
that correct?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. That
is right. The gentleman is right.
Now that is the bill. Let me sum-
marize it for you again:
First. Retirement at the age of 50
with a total of 20 years of service, 5 years
of which must have been with the
Agency. The employee must apply for
the retirement and receive the permis-
sion of the Director.
Second. The Director may involun-
tarily retire individuals and where they
are in the grade of GS-14 and above,
they will be entitled to receive an imme-
diate annuity regardless of age pro-
vided, however, they have 5 years of
qualifying service and a total of 10 years
service with the Agency, and
Third. The Director may retire em-
ployees in the grades of GS-13 and be-
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
19592 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
low, and in such case they will receive
at age of 60 a deferred annuity if other-
wise eligible.
In addition, they will be entitled to
receive separation compensation in the
amount of 1 month's salary for each
year not to exceed a total of 1 year.
That is the bill, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
yield to the gentleman.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. I would like to
compliment the gentleman from South
Carolina and his subcommittee; the
chairman and members of the full com-
mittee, for bringing this bill out. As I
understand it, this covers a personnel
area which has not been covered hereto-
fore; it affords retirement privileges
identical to those in the Foreign Service;
is that correct? The grades under grade
GS-14 are already covered by the normal
civil service retirement regulations.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. The
gentleman referred to grades under
GS-14?
Mr. HOLIFIELD. Yes, under grade
GS-14.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Not
all qualified employees?normally em-
ployees are covered by the civil service
system. Let us call them agents.
Agents without the qualifying service are
not covered.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. In other words,
agents who do not have the qualifying
service under civil service are the ones
who are not covered; is that correct?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. That
is correct.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. But under this bill
they will be covered and the benefits they
will draw will be similar or the same as
those of people in the Foreign Service.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. That
is correct.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. You spoke of the
right of the Director to retire agents
under certain conditions. Does this give
the Director any additional power to fire
or hire people besides the power he has
already?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. No,
but the Director must have this au-
thority.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. Yes, he must have
this authority. Your reference to them
is to see that they get certain annuities
in case they are relieved of their duties?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. That
is right?to give them security. You
must remember these agents sign a let-
ter before they go on duty that they
will serve anywhere on earth, 7 days a
week, 24 hours a day. It is a very ?de-
manding service.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. That is correct.
Many of these people being covered by
this bill have served in places where it
was dangerous for them. They have
assumed duties in espionage which have
endangered their lives and, in fact, some
of them have lost their lives as a result
of this service; is this not true?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I am
delighted that the gentleman asked that
question. The gentleman has asked a
question?if some of these agents are
serving in dangerous places and have lost
their lives and are in danger of losing
their lives. I wish I could tell this com-
mittee the areas where these people are
languishing in jails and where they have
faced firing squads all over the world. It
Is a terrifying thing. If you knew what
I know, you would say to me that there
are a lot better ways of making a living
than working for the CIA.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. I am glad the gen-
tleman brought this point out because,
as a member of the Joint Committee on
Atomic Energy, we have had close rela-
tionships with the CIA. We know what
the gentleman from South Carolina says
is true, that there are people who have
served in this organization who are in
jail and some have lost their lives. Fur-
thermore, they are also in a situation
where they cannot be protected or they
cannot be claimed as a member of the
CIA in the event they are captured and
jailed in a foreign country.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. If I
should tell you how many of these agents
we have or if I should give you some sort
of a number of the agents that we have,
the Soviets could merely by a matter of
arithmetic figure them out and ferret
them out.
For instance, when the Director de-
cides to separate a man he cannot go into
court with his case under this bill, be-
cause if he did, any espionage person
could figure out exactly who these peo-
ple are, how many they are, and what
they do. We cannot permit this. This
espionage business is a dangerous busi-
ness; it is not one that I would be in. We
have never been in it before. But, has it
ever occurred to you and to the other
members of the committee as to the vast
system of the Soviets? They have thou-
sands upon thousands upon thousands of
agents in this world. We must have this
agency and we must give them this
benefit.
Let me say this to the gentleman: we
permit the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion employees to retire at an earlier age
than other people. Do you know why?
It is because they are under such a ter-
rible strain all the time. They must be
given this right; otherwise they will
shake themselves to pieces. They have
to have it, and this organization here
must have this.
Mr. HOLIFIELD. I think the gentle-
man has done a good thing in bringing
out this bill. I want to express my sup-
port for it. I believe every Member, who
knows the workings of this organization,
who knows the dedication of these people
and has had the privilege of meeting
many of these people in the course of
their congressional duties, can certainly
subscribe to this. I hope this bill will
pass unanimously.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
thank the gentleman.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
yield to the gentleman from Missouri.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man, one thing the speaker has not
brought out is the wage differential that
exists between persons employed in the
Central Intelligence Agency as compared
with those employed in other agencies of
?-?
October 30
the Government. I have been informed
from what I think is a good source that
in the lower echelons of people who are
performing clerical and just routine
work they are geting salaries above what
people doing similar or exactly the same
work in other agencies of the Govern-
ment are getting. They are getting what
would be comparable to two grades high-
er pay for that. Do you have any com-
ment to make on this? .
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I do
not have a bit of comment to make on it,
and I do not believe in it.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. I have this
from a source that I think is reliable. I
appreciate the fact that this whole
Agency has to operate under an aura of
great secrecy.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Why,
certainly.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. And some-
times they are inclined to carry it to the
ridiculous. For instance, I had an ex-
perience, and I am going to relate it in
order to emphasize the point I am trying
to make. At the time of the U-2 incident
I was concerned about what had hap-
pened there. I think our Government
suffered great damage because of state-
ments that went out at that time which
were not true. So, I made an appoint-
ment with Mr. Dulles to talk to him
about this thing. He tried to explain it
to me, but I did not get much informa-
tion. In his old headquarters they had
a picture of the new CIA building. Just
out of idle curiosity more than anything
else, I said, "Mr. Dulles, how many peo-
ple will be employed in this new build-
ing?" He said, "Oh, we cannot tell you
that. That is secret." To me that was an
asinine reply to a question, because I
think anyone knows that there was no
secrecy with regard to the number of
people to be employed in that new build-
ing out at the Central Intelligence Agen-
cy, because anybody who knows any-
thing about trying to estimate the num-
ber of employees in a building could have
gotten it very well; or for that matter
one could count the employees entering
and leaving by public highway.
The thing that disturbs me about this
bill is the fact that it has been the prac-
tice throughout many years for these
people to take advantage of their sensi-
tive position and to use it for privileged
treatment which is not justified.
I am in sympathy with the people who
risk their lives and do things like that.
I am not asking you what the salary of
those people is, but I have reason to be-
lieve that it is a pretty good salary which
takes care of some of the hazards and
the risks that are involved. I think those
things have to be considered here, too.
I think your committee should have and
should be able to tell me to what heights
or depths we are going to go to deter-
mine who is included, because unless I
am badly mistaken and Unless I am badly
mistaken in my estimate of the opera-
tion of this department in the past, they
are going to start reaching down, down,
and down to get people up. I have had
the experience of observing people quit,
other departments of the Government to
join the Central Intelligence Agency.
They have told me, "I can go there and
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
'1963
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
do exactly the same work that I have
been doing," let us say, in the Depart-
ment of Agriculture "and I will get a
much higher salary, because I get the
coverage under the CIA." Yet that per-
son stays in this same community and
does the same work with no greater re-
sponsibility, and he gets higher pay. I
do not think that type of employee is en-
titled to any special consideration just
because he is associated with an agency
that has a small percentage of its peo-
ple who are put in these positions of high
sensitivity and who are subjected to great
risk and, in many instances, have given
their lives. I do not think you have
given us enough information about these
people at the lower levels, who consti-
tute a great majority. I would want
some assurance that those people are
not going to get further preferred treat-
ment under this bill. I would like to have
the gentleman comment on that.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. The
gentleman has made a pretty good
speech. I do not know where to start
to answer his question. I allowed him to
talk for 5 minutes. What question does
he want me to answer?
Mr. JONES of Missouri. I asked the
gentleman first if he knew of the dif-
ferential in salary between the people
employed doing clerical, filing, and typ-
ing work, who were getting paid more
than those people in the departments?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I do
not know that.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. I think the
gentleman should know it. I think his
committee should know it. I think the
House is entitled to that information.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. The
bill clearly points out who would be
covered.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. I respect-
fully point out that it does not.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
must be stupid, because I have tried to
explain that to the gentleman.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. I do not
think the gentleman is stupid. I think
sometimes the committee is overawed by
the great secrecy under which this
agency operates and some of the people
have taken advantage of their position
to keep secret some things that the Con-
gress and the gentleman's committee
particularly are entitled to know.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
will tell the committee what I will do.
The gentleman may go back and ask
the counsel of our committee to answer
any of those questions; and he can an-
swer them a thousand times better than
I can.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. Does the
gentleman mean that these things are
so secret that we cannot put them on
record?
Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
yield to the gentleman from Virginia.
Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, as a
member of the subcommittee I may be
able to shed a little bit of light on the
point that the gentleman from Missouri
has raised. As far as I can recall from
the testimony the employees who are
covered under the normal civil service
regulations are paid on exactly the same
basis as employees in other agencies per-
forming the same duties. We are not
talking about those employees in this
bill. This bill covers only the employees
who are engaged in special types of work.
With respect to other kinds of em-
ployees?the average kind?let me say
to the gentleman that a few years ago
I employed as a staff member of my
subcommittee, an attorney who was then
on the legal staff of CIA. I paid him a
little bit more money than he was mak-
ing down there. I am sure that he had
been getting at CIA exactly the same
pay he would have received for similar
work in any other Federal agency. I
hope that will help the gentleman on
the point that he was making.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. May
I say this to the gentleman: The people
who do similar work are covered by the
regulations of the civil service.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man, I do not agree with that for this
reason, because I have had specific in-
stances and have known people who
have quit jobs in one department in or-
der to go to work for the CIA. They
have told me that they were doing exact-
ly the same type of work and getting
paid at a higher grade than they were
in the department that they quit.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I am
surprised to hear that.
Mr. MAcGREGOR. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I am
pleased to yield to the gentleman.
Mr. IVIAcGREGOR. Mr. Chairman, I
was particularly pleased by the com-
ments of the gentleman from South
Carolina with respect to the nature of his
committee's knowledge of the work of the
Central Intelligence Agency. This is
particularly so because from time to time
over the past 3 years we have heard com-
plaints in this body and in the other body
about the need for the establishment of a
watchdog committee which, in my opin-
ion, is not indicated from my knowledge
of the existing committees of the Con-
gress. I should like to call the gentle-
man's attention to a response given by
President Kennedy to a question at a
press conference earlier this month when
he said the following:
There is a congressional committee in the
House and one in the Senate composed of
members of the Appropriations Committee
and the Armed Services Committee, and they
meet frequently with Mr. McCone, and he
also testifies before the Foreign Relations
Committees of House and Senate and the
general Armed Services Committees. And I
think that Congress through that organiza-
tion has the means of keeping a liaison with
him.
I should like to ask the gentleman
from South Carolina [Mr. RavERs]
whether he agrees that the committee
on which the gentleman serves and other
committees mentioned by the President
do maintain effective liaison over the
work of the Central Intelligence
Agency?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. We
do it all the time. The gentleman from
Georgia [Mr. \Timm] is chairman of
that subcommittee and its members meet
all the time. We get all the information
19593
they have. We get a brieffing on the
world situation. They are totally frank.
They present some very, very brilliant
information before our subcommittee.
They know how to figure out intelligence.
It is quite an impressive thing.
Mr. MAcGREGOR. I thank the
gentleman for his response.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man, will the gentleman yield further?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
yield to the gentleman from Missouri.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. Will the
gentleman from South Carolina answer
one question for me? I want to know if
the gentleman thinks that this was
justified as a matter of secrecy as to the
number of employees that are working
in this CIA building here in Washing-
ton?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
think so.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. The gentle-
man thinks that should be secret?
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I
think so.
Mr. ASHBROOK. Mr. Chairman, I
make the point of order that a quorum
is not present.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will
count. One hundred and nine Members
are present, a quorum.
Mr. BATES. Mr. Chairman, I yield
myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, H.R. 8427 is a bill
unanimously reported by the Armed
Services Committee. Its purpose is to
establish an improved retirement system
for those employees of the-Central Intel-
ligence Agency who are concerned with
the conduct and support of intelligence
activities abroad.
The Congress has long countenanced
the policy of providing early retirement
for certain classes of Government em-
ployees. This policy is not one of fa-
voritism, but one of realism. It takes
account of the fact that some jobs are
more hazardous and more trying, than
others. An appreciation of the risks
assumed by special agents of the FBI
and other Government employees en-
gaged in the apprehension and detention
of criminals, led to the Congress pro-
viding early retirement for them. The
arduous conditions?climatic and other-
wise?under which Foreign Service offi-
cers labor, dictated the enactment of
similar early retirement provisions. In
the case of those CIA officers and em-
ployees engaged in the conduct and sup-
port of intelligence activities abroad,
both criteria--hazardous and onerous
working conditions?obtain. This is ob-
viously a young man's business and for
the sake of consistency and justice, pro-
vision must be made to accord to this
limited number of CIA employees the -
realistic treatment which presently gov-
erns the early retirement of FBI agents
and Foreign Service officers. The volun-
tary retirment features of the bill meet
this objective by providing that an em-
ployee who is at least 50 years of age
and has rendered 20 years of service may,
with the consent of the Agency, be re-
tired on an immediate annuity.
Since the Civil Service Retirement
Act continues to be appropriate for the
great majority of CIA employees, this
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7.
19594
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE October 30
bill will apply only to those actively en-
gaged in intelligence work overseas. For
security reasons, the various position ti-
tles of those to be covered have not been
spelled out in the bill itself, but the re-
stricted coverage has been made explicit
In the very title of the bill and in its
statement of purpose.
The types of specialities needed by the
Central Intelligence Agency vary, not
only with the sophistication of intelli-
gence collection techniques, but with
changes in world conditions generally.
The advent of the U-2 and the con-
comitant need for highly trained photo-
interpreters, is a clear example. But
with the progress of science and the
imaginative technological advances in
this area some specialized skills used by
CIA officers in the field may become ob-
solete. Such men often find themselves
involved in the Agency's necessary pro-
grams of managed attrition. Authority
was therefore granted to provide such
individuals who are involuntarily retired
either separation pay or immediate an-
nuities. Immediate annuities are avail-
able only to GS-14's and above who have
at least 10 years' service with the Agen-
cy, 5 of those years in a career primar-
ily oriented toward the conduct and sup-
port of intelligence activities abroad.
Those involuntarily retired who are not
eligible for immediate annuities will be
provided with separation pay which, like
the annuity, is proportioned to length of
service rendered.
Though the retirement provisions of
this bill represent new coverage for some
CIA employees, they are not novel to the
Congress. Identical provisions obtain
for Foreign Service officers". Neverthe-
less, each section of this bill was care-
fully analyzed to confirm that it was ap-
propriate and necessary. In the course
of 4 days intensive hearings the com-
mittee found that a number of changes
were warranted. These changes have
been made, and as a result we have be-
fore us now an excellent bill which I am
proud to support?a bill which deserves
your consideration. One change in par-
ticular was occasioned by security con-
siderations. Because of the sensitivity of
information pertaining to the mission of
the CIA abroad, a section was added to
give finality to determinations made by
the Director under this act. Similar pro-
vision exists in the Atomic Energy Act
and is designed to protect highly classi-
fied information from disclosure in the
course of an open trial or hearing.
Other changes were made which
tightened the bill and which reflected
the years of experience which the For-
eign Service has had in administering an
identical system.
I believe that H.R. 8427 is in line with
consistent congressional policy and that
it represents an equitable retirement sys-
tem for those involved in this arduous
work. In addition, it provides to the
Central Intelligence Agency a method
for keeping its service young and up to
date; and the enactment of this bill will
demonstrate to those whose thankless
task it is to be in the front lines of our
inteligence-collection service that their
work and their welfare are not unheeded
by the Congress of the United States.
Mr. HARDY. 'Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield to me at this point?
Mr. BATES. I would be pleased to
yield to the gentleman from Virginia.
Mr. HARDY. In connection with the
question raised by the gentleman from
Missouri a moment ago with respect to
the extent to which the subcommittee
went into this matter, would the gen-
tleman agree that in hearings with the
CIA the subcommittee went very deeply
into this matter of the limited number
of employees to be covered under this
bill?
Mr. BATES. That is correct.
Mr. HARDY. And I think the point
that the gentleman from Missouri raised
is a very important point. But I think
it is also important that the Members of
the Congress know that the subcom-
mittee did receive assurances to the ef-
fect that only persons in very special
kinds of assignments would be covered.
Mr. BATES. With reference to this
particular bill.
Mr. HARDY. That is correct. I
thank the gentleman.
Mr. JONAS. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. BATES. I yield to the gentle-
man from North Carolina.
Mr. JONAS. I wish the gentleman
would tell me where I can find that in
the bill.
Mr. BATES. What is that?
Mr. JONAS. The limitation of cover-
age to hazardous foreign service. It may
be in the bill, but I cannot find it.
Mr. BATES. I may say that an
amendment will be offered on this point.
The members of the subcommittee after
we considered this particular aspect at
considerable length in the committee
were satisfied in our minds as to what
the CIA intended. When we went be-
fore the Rules Committee they raised the
same question that the gentleman from
North Carolina now poses. We wrote an
amendment which we offered to the sub-
committee, and we also cleared it with
the Rules Committee. With the excep-
tion of the gentleman from California
[Mr. Smrril] they are presently in ac-
cord with what I have previously stated.
This will be discussed when we get un-
der the 5-minute rule.
Mr. JONAS. Can the gentleman tell
me where I might find a copy of the
amendment?
Mr. BATES. I will lend the gentle-
man my copy of the amendment.
Mr. LINDSAY. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. BATES. I yield to the gentleman
from New York.
Mr. LINDSAY. For how long do they
have to serve overseas?
Mr. BATES. In order to obtain this
annuity an individual must have 5 years
in this particular group. If he has-10
years' total he could retire on the basis
of 2 percent per year.
Mr. LINDSAY. Five years of oversea
assignment?
Mr. BATES. He must be in that work
for at least 5 years.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, I yield the balance of the
time remaining to the gentleman from
Florida [Mr. BENNETT].
(Mr. BENNETT of Florida asked and
was given permission to revise and ex-
tend his remarks.)
Mr. BENNETT of Florida. Mr. Chair-
man, as a member of the Armed Services
Committee and as a member of the CIA
Subcommittee, I rise in support of H.R.
8427.
This bill for CIA is in fact long over-
due. The bill will improve the retire-
ment system for those employees of the
Agency who are actively engaged in the
conduct and support of intelligence ac-
tivities abroad. It is estimated that less
than 30 percent of the Agency employees
will be brought in under this new system.
Today, all employees of the Agency are
under the normal civil service retirement
plan and the majority of the employees
will remain under that system. A serv-
ice which is continuously rotating its
people abroad requires fundamentally a
younger group of people than is nor-
mally found in a Washington headquar-
ters.
Foreign Service early recognized the
need for a retirement system designed
to meet the needs of an oversea service,
and beginning in 1924 the Congress rec-
ognized the validity of these special
needs.
CIA is not asking for something spe-
cial or unique in this bill. The possibil-
ity of improving the retirement system
was studied intensively and it was de-
termined that the system developed by
the Congress for the Foreign Service
over the last 30 years would meet Agency
objectives. Consequently, this bill gives
to a fraction of the total Agency person-
nel a retirement system substantively
identical to the Foreign Service.
During 4 days of hearings all aspects
of this bill were examined intensively by
the committee. A review of these hear-
ings and the report indicates clearly that
most careful thought was given to each
aspect of the bill. A number of amend-
ments were made which strengthen and
tighten the bill. The bill was unani-
mously reported and it is to the merits
of this bill which the Members should
address themselves.
My membership on the CIA Subcom-
mittee has given me considerable insight
into the personnel problems and the
management aspects of the intelligence
business. It may well be that the
Agency has made some mistakes, but we
all make mistakes. On the other hand,
the Agency has been tremendously suc-
cessful in providing advance informa-
tion on many aspects of world events.
I am convinced that our policymakers
are getting good intelligence from CIA
and the entire intelligence community.
I have listened with great interest to
the problems of CIA operators collecting
intelligence in the field. These men and
women I have found to be truly dedicated
to their tasks, and the Nation should be
grateful for their efforts. This bill is
essential to maintain the high quality of
the service of which these people are a
part. We must give the Agency the tools
it needs to accomplish the extremely dif-
ficult mission which it is assigned.
I call upon you to vote for this bill
which is recommended to you by all
members of the Armed Services Com-
mittee and not to vote for irresponsible
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
1963
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
headlines appearing In portions of our
press.
Mr. Chairman, in concluding my re-
marks I would like to say there have
been from time to time in the press and
among individual Members of the House
and others comments with regard to the
necessity or the validity of adding an-
other CIA committee. I think this is
primarily because most Members of the
Congress, or at least most members of
the press and the public generally do not
realize there are committees of this type
in the House and Senate at the present
time. So I would think, if questions are
in the minds of Members of Congress, it
might be an appropriate thing for these
Members of the Congress to treat the
Committee on Armed Services and its
CIA subcommittee just as they treat
every other committee of the Congress
and address to them the questions they
have with regard to employment policies
or with regard to any other policies they
may have, and in this way perhaps some
of this unnecessary secrecy can be re-
moved. There is a degree of secrecy nec-
essary in the CIA, but there is also a large
area where there is no real necessity for
secrecy.
I think Members of Congress are
mostly interested in seeing to it that the
books are properly handled and things
of this type. Things of this type can be
brought to the Central Intelligence
Agency subcommitee and can be prop-
erly handled. I hope in the future Mem-
bers of Congress when they hear about
a subject dealing with the Central Intel-
ligence Agency and have a question about
it will address their question to the staff
of the committee or to the committee as a
whole and to the gentleman from
Georgia, Chairman VINSON, chairman of
the subcommittee and of the whole Com-
mittee on Armed Services. I think you
will get intelligent answers then to the
questions you ask. Perhaps by eliminat-
ing this frustration we may not only
serve the CIA but, more importantly,
may serve to strengthen our own coun-
try.
Mr. ARENDS. Mr. Chairman, I yield
myself such time as I may desire.
Mr. Chairman, our Committee on
Armed Services has had a subcommittee
on the Central Intelligence Agency for
many years. As a member of that sub-
committee since its inception I have be-
come somewhat familiar with the na-
ture of the Agency's organization and
its manifold activities. Our subcom-
mittee has regularly inquired into the
CIA's operations and from time to time
have made specific inquiry into some
specific aspect of its activities. When-
ever a question would arise as to what
the CIA had been doing in some partic-
ular area, our subcommittee would
quietly but thoroughly look into it.
Naturally, all our subcommittee in-
quiries, investigations, and briefings were
in executive session. Naturally, no re-
ports have been issued as to our findings
and recommendations. To do so would
destroy the effectiveness of the Agency,
and the importance of this Agency's
work to our country's security cannot be
too strongly emphasized.
No. 174-14
This is not to say that the Agency
has been without any congressional su-
pervision. Not only has our subcom-
mittee been scrutinizing its operations,
it has likewise been scrutinized by the
Appropriations Subcommittee, as well
as the subcommittees of the Senate.
I am confident that every member of
the subcommittees that has dealt with
the CIA will agree that Director John
McCone and his deputies have at all
times been responsive to the questions
we have raised. They have not hesi-
tated to give us details and to take us
Into complete confidence. Nor have they
hesitated to admit to possible error and
their eagerness to improve upon their
methods of obtaining information and
evaluating it. Anyone familiar with
the simplest type of detective work
readily recognizes how readily errors oc-
cur in ferreting out the facts. The gath-
ering of factual information on a world-
wide scale, and being certain that the
information is factual and not just con-
jectural, presents problems beyond de-
scription.
For my part, I believe that in the CIA
we have one of the finest intelligence
agencies in the world. I should also like
to say that I do not believe anywhere
will be found people more dedicated to
the service of our country than Director
McCone and the people who serve under
him.
There is one thing more I should like
to emphasize with respect to the CIA.
Contrary to what we read and hear from
time to time, the CIA does not pursue an
independent foreign policy. The agency
does not make policy. It simply gathers
the facts upon which policy may be
based. It simply carries out orders dic-
tated by those who make policy. If
there is an inconsistency, or a seeming
inconsistency, between policy and what
the CIA may be doing, it arises not be-
cause of the CIA acting independently.
Our subcommittee has not only re-
viewed the operations of the CIA, but we
have also looked carefully into the ma-
chinery by which the CIA activities are
coordinated within and between other
departments of Government.
While all this is not directly related
to the bill before us, I felt at least some-
thing should be said concerning the
operations of the CIA generally by those
of us who have had opportunity to regu-
larly study its activities.
As has been pointed out, the bill be-
fore us was reported unanimously by our
committee. What we are proposing
here is not new. We are in effect sim-
ply extending to some of the employees
of the CIA the same type of retirement
system as we have had for the Foreign
Service.
We established a special retirement
system for the FBI and for the Foreign
Service in recognition of the extraordi-
nary hazardous nature of the work and
the uniqueness of the service itself.
Assignments overseas are not at best
the most desirable, particularly for any
extended period of time. And many of
these assignments are necessarily in un-
healthy climates and in places where
19595
living conditions are no more than tol-
erable.
In addition, there are all the danger-
ous aspects involved in connection with
intelligence operations abroad. One is
frequently under great pressure and
certainly not able to live a normal life.
It requires a certain type of people to
undertake intelligence assignments in re-
mote places and sometimes unfriendly
areas.
The purpose of this legislation, to pro-
vide for the voluntary retirement of
some employees at the age of 50 with 20
years service, is not solely to help those
already in the service but to encourage
others to dedicate themselves to this
type of work. By this legislation we
seek to insure a continuing virility in
one of the most important agencies of
Government.
I urge the enactment of this bill.
Mr. MAcGREGOR. Mr. Chairman,
will the gentleman yield?
Mr. ARENDS. I am pleased to yield
to the gentleman.
Mr. MAcGREGOR. Mr. Chairman,
it is frequently said that there needs to
be a watchdog committee established by
the Congress to oversee the activities of
the Central Intelligence Agency. It is
said, for example, that such a group is
needed, consisting of House and Senate
Members of long seniority and demon-
strated responsibility. I should like to
ask the distinguished gentleman from
Illinois whether or not there is not al-
ready in existence in the Congress a com-
mittee, or committees, consisting of
Members of long seniority and demon-
strated responsibility to oversee the ac-
tivities of the Central Intelligence
Agency.
Mr. ARENDS. The answer to that is
"Yes." As I said in my talk a moment
. ago, a subcommitte of the Armed Serv-
ices Committees of the House and Senate
and the subcommittee of appropriations,
go into all matters concerning the CIA,
and it is my opinion that these commit-
tees do as good a job as we possibly can.
If our present committees were to be en-
larged into a so-called watchdog commit-
tee composed of Members of the House
and Senate, I think it would soon get
out of hand with the real possibility that
information of the most secret nature
might soon become public information
and no longer be a secret matter. I would
prefer our present practice. I think we
do a thorough job. I must say, in com-
mendation of the CIA that when they
appear before us, they are very frank,
honest, and sincere and at all times ready
to reply in detail to any inquiry of any
kind whenever we request it.
Mr. MAcGREGOR. Secondly, it is
said by some of little knowledge of the
existence of the Armed Services Com-
mittee and the Appropriations Subcom-
mittee, that a watchdog committee is
needed so that Members of Congress
would be kept informed of the general
activities of the CIA. You are informed
at the present time, are you not?
Mr. ARENDS. We certainly are in-
formed. Our chairman, the gentleman
from Georgia [Mr. VINSON] , whenever
something comes up, frequently requests
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
19596
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD RECORD ? HOUSE October 30
the CIA to come before us in closed ses-
sion and the matter is thoroughly dis-
cussed and analyzed.
Mr. MAcGREGOR. It is further al-
leged that such a watchdog committee
is needed to oversee the policies of the
CIA, the implication being that the CIA
is a policymaking body. It is not, is it?
Mr. ARENDS. Such an impression is
erroneous, indeed. I pinpointed that just
a moment ago. The CIA is not a policy-
making body. It is simply an implement-
ing and factfinding group. Policy is
made by those who are in authority to
make policy.
Mr. MAcGREGOR. Mr. Chairman, I
thank the gentleman from Illinois for
his elucidation.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, I have no further requests
for time.
Mr. BATES. Mr. Chairman, I yield
such time as he may consume to the
gentleman from Iowa [Mr. GRossl
(Mr. GROSS asked and was given per-
mission to revise and extend his re-
marks.)
Mr. GROSS. Mr. Chairman, if I may
have the attention of the gentleman from
Illinois [Mr. ARENDS] I would like to
compliment the House Armed Services
Committee on being able to get any and
every type of information which they
wanted from the Central Intelligence
Agency. That has not been the experi-
ence of some other committees of
Congress.
Mr. Chairman, I would have appreci-
ated it had the gentleman went on today
and told us who in the Cuban Bay of
Pigs fiasco fell flat on their collective or
individual faces. I would have appreci-
ated hearing an account of why the
CIA's man, Richardson, was removed
from Vietnam if the CIA is not dealing in
policy in that country.
Mr. Chairman, it was my understand-
ing that Mr. Richardson was brought
back from Vietnam because he was try-
ing to establish some kind of a policy.
I hope that some day, when we do not
have anything else to do in the House,
that members of the Armed Services
Committee will tell us of some of the
things that we common garden variety
Members of Congress have been totally
unable to learn about the operations of
this Agency of Government.
Mr. Chairman, let me say that the CIA
at one time came before a committee of
which I am a member, the Committee on
Post Office and Civil Service, asking for
additional supergrades. We asked the
representatives of the CIA how many
supergrades they had at that time. The
answer was, "We cannot tell you," al-
though this was an executive session. I
said, "Do you mean to tell the commit-
tee you cannot divulge how many em-
ployees you have in categories 16, 17,
and 18?" They said, "No, we cannot tell
you." I said, "We are not asking for job
descriptions, we do not ask you for
names, we simply ask you for the num-
bers of employees in the three cate-
gories." My friend, the gentleman from
Michigan [Mr. JoHANsEx] is present on
the floor of the House and I am sure the
gentleman will corroborate what I say if
there is any doubt.
Mr. Chairman, we adjourned the
meeting because we could not even find
out how many supergrades they had.
In a day or two?I think it was the next
'day?we were advised that they would
drop their cloak of secrecy to tell us
how many persons they had in those
grades. So they gave us the information,
but we had to go through two meetings
in order to get just the number of bodies
in those three categories, grades 16, 17,
and 18.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. GROSS. I yield to the gentleman
from South Carolina.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. In
the first instance, when you asked them
how many they had on the payroll, they
should have told you. I think it was
ridiculous not to have told you.
Mr. GROSS. We are dealing in part
with the same sort of thing in this bill.
I will tell you why. In the report ac-
companying the bill you do not have a
single letter, or the usual letters from a
department or agency of Government
in support of or in opposition to this
legislation. You have nothing whatever
from the Chairman of the Civil Service
Commission who administers the Gov-
ernment retirement fund. And, let me
tell Members of the House that you had
better begin to be concerned about the
retirement fund.
Mr. Chairman, I favor certain pro-
visions of this bill, but I warn you that
the Government retirement fund is to-
day more than $38 billion in the red. I
did not say "millions." I said billions;
$38 billion in the red.
In the last fiscal year retirement fund
went $4 billion in the red. You had bet-
ter begin to be concerned about how you
handle retirement from here on out, be-
cause somebody, and soon, is going to
have to put money into the fund in order
to pay out any retirement.
Mr. Chairman, I could hardly believe
it when I picked up this bill over the
last weekend and read this one sen-
tence:
The Director may designate from time to
time such Agency officers and employees,
hereafter referred to as participants, who
shall be entitled to the benefits of the system.
I could not believe that a retirement
bill could come out of a committee as
unlimited as that.
Sure, you are going to offer an9,mend-
ment now to partially close the door.
But with one hand you are going to close
the door and with the other you are go-
ing to open it again with the amendment
which you propose to offer.
I am going to offer a substitute to
your amendment to keep that door
closed.
I support the proposal to give proper
consideration to those engaged in work
hazardous to life and health, but there
I want to end. I am not going to give
the Director of the CIA the authority to
interpret what is normal employment, to
open the door again, and perhaps give
an unjustified number of people on fast
retirement who may be completely un-
deserving.
So I will offer a substitute to the
amendment and vote against the bill if
the substitute fails.
Mr. BATES. Mr. Chairman, I yield
such time as he may desire to the gen-
tleman from New York [Mr. REID].
Mr. REID of New York. Mr. Chair-
man, I rise in support of H.R. 8427 to
create a Central Intelligence Agency re-
tirement and disability system for a lim-
ited number of employees. It is high
time that the Central Intelligence
Agency should have a career retirement
system similar to the one that the for-
eign service presently enjoys.
There is a clear need to establish and
maintain a young career intelligence
service. This bill will facilitate that
purpose.
Equally, Mr. Chairman, I would like to
pay tribute to the men and women of
the Central Intelligence Agency who fre-
quently serve at the risk of life and limb
in difficult parts of the world. Their
service, which goes unpublicized for the
most part, should be recognized by the
Congress of the United States and their
loyalty, their dedication, and their pro-
fessional character should be backed up
by a meaningful career service and re-
tirement system.
Occasionally Mr. Chairman, points
are raised that the CIA operates inde-
pendently of the chief of missions.
Just by way of clarification I would like
to read from one of the Executive orders
bearing on this so that there can be no
lack of clarity on the fact that CIA in
any embassy is subject to the Ambassa-
dor. k Former President Eisenhower on
November 8, 1960, issued a memoran-
dum which I will excerpt from States:
It is my desire that all appropriate steps
be taken to assure that the chief of the
U.S. diplomatic mission is effective in dis-
charging his role as the representative of the
President. The chief of the mission shall
have and exercise affirmative responsibility
for the coordination and supervision of all
U.S. activities in the country to which he is
accredited.
Further, former President Eisenhower
In this memorandum said:
It is my desire that the Chief of Mission be
made fully aware of his responsibilities and
authority in respect to U.S. activities.
The final point in this Executive order,
that has been continued, I believe, by
President Kennedy, states explicitly that
the Ambassador:
Will report promptly to the President as to
any matter which he considers to need cor-
rection and with respect to which he is not
empowered to effect correction.
It is I believe plain that under the Ex-
ecutive orders of the past administration
and the present administration, the Cen-
tral Intelligence Agency and its repres-
entatives are responsive to the President
and to his personal representative, the
Ambassador.
In a word, Mr. Chairman, there is a
definite need for this legislation today.
It will mean a great deal to the spirit of
the Central Intelligence Agency. These
men and women deserve well of the Unit-
ed States. It is my hope that the Con-
gress will enact this legislation.
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
11963
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
The CHAIRMAN. If there are no fur-
ther requests for time, the Clerk will
read the bill for amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Be it enacted by the Senate and House
of Representatives of the United States of
America in Congress assembled,
TITuE I?SHORT TITLE AND DEFINITIONS
PART A?SHORT TITLE
.SEC. 101. This Act may be cited as the
"Central Intelligence Agency Retirement Act
of 1963 for Certain Employees".
PART B?DEFINITIONS
SEC. When used in this Act, the term?
(1) "Agency" means the Central Intelli-
gence Agency; and
(2) "Director" means the Director of Cen-
tral Intelligence.
TITLE II?THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
RETIREMENT AND DISABILITY SYSTEM
PART A?ESTABLISHMENT OF SYSTEM
Rules and regulations
SEC. 201. (a) The Director may prescribe
rules and regulations for the establishment
and maintenance of a Central Intelligence
Agency Retirement and Disability System for
a limited number of employees, referred to
hereafter as the system.
(b) The Director shall administer the sys-
tem in accordance with such rules and regu-
lations and with the principles established
by this Act.
(c) In the interests of the security of the
foreign intelligence activities of the United
States and in order further to implement
the proviso of section 102(d) (3) of the Na-
tional Security Act of 1947, as amended (50
U.S.C. 403(d) (3) ) , that the Director of Cen-
tral Intelligence shall be responsible for pro-
tecting intelligence sources and methods
from unauthorized disclosure, and notwith-
standing the provisions of the Administra-
tive Procedure Act (5 U.S.C. 1001 et seq.) or
any other provisions of law, any determina-
tions by the Director authorized by the pro-
visions of this Act shall be deemed to be final
and conclusive and not subject to review by
any court.
Establishment and maintenance of fund
SEC. 202. There is hereby created a fund to
be known as the Central Intelligence Agency
Retirement and Disability Fund which shall
be maintained by the Director. The Central
Intelligence Agency Retirement and Disabil-
ity Fund is referred to hereafter as the fund.
Participants
SEC. 203. The Director may designate from
time to time such Agency officers and em-
ployees, hereafter referred to as participants,
who shall be entitled to the benefits of the
system. Any participant who has completed
fifteen years of service with the Agency and
whose career at that time is adjudged by
the Director to be qualifying for the system
may elect to remain a participant of such
system for the duration of his employment
by the Agency and such election shall not be
subject to review or approval by the Director.
Annuitants
SEC. 204. (a) Annuitants shall be partici-
pants who are receiving annuities from the
fund and all persons, including surviving
wives and husbands, widows, dependent
widowers, children, and beneficiaries of par-
ticipants or annuitants who shall become
entitled to receive annuities in accordance
with the provisions of this Act.
(b) When used in this Act the term?
(1) "Widow" means the surviving wife of
a participant who was married to such par-
ticipant for at least two years immediately
preceding his death or is the mother of issue
by marriage to the participant.
(2) "Dependent widower" means the sur-
viving husband of a participant who was
married to such participant for at least two
years immediately preceding her death or is
the father of issue by marriage to the par-
ticipant, and who is incapable of self-support
by reason of mental or physical disability,
and who received more than one-half of his
support from such participant.
(3) "Child" means an unmarried child,
under the age of eighteen years, or such
unmarried child regardless of age who, be-
cause of physical or mental disability in-
curred before age eighteen, is incapable of
self-support. In addition to the offspring
of the participant and his or her spouse, the
term includes (I) an adopted child, and (ii)
a stepchild or recognized natural child who
received more than one-half of his support
from the participant.
PART B?COMPULSORY CONTRIBUTIONS
SEC. 211. (a) Six and one-half per centum
of the basic salary received by each partici-
pant shall be contributed to the fund for the
payment of annuities, cash benefits, refunds
and allowances. An equal sum shall also be
contributed from the respective appropriation
or fund which is used for payment of his
salary. The amounts deducted and withheld
from basic salary together with the amounts
so contributed from the appropriation or
fund shall be deposited by the Agency to the
credit of the fund.
(b) Each participant shall be deemed to
consent and agree to such deductions from
basic salary, and payment less such deduc-
tions shall be a full and complete discharge
and acquittance of all claims and demands
whatsoever for all regular services during the
period covered by such payment, except the
right to the benefits to which he shall be
entitled under this Act, notwithstanding any
law, rule, or regulation affecting the indi-
vidual's salary.
PART C?COMPUTATION OF ANNUITIES
. SEC. 221. (a) The annuity of a participant
shall be equal to 2 per centum of his average
basic salary for the highest five consecutive
years of service, for which full contributions
have been made to the fund, multiplied by
the number of years, not exceeding thirty-
five, of service credit obtained in accordance
with the provisions of sections 251 and 252.
In determining the aggregate period of serv-
ice upon which the annuity is to be based,
the fractional part of a month, if any, shall
not be counted.
(b) At the time of retirement, any married
participant may elect to receive a reduced
annuity and to provide for an annuity pay-
able to his wife or her husband, commencing
on the date following such participant's
death and terminating upon the death of
such surviving wife or husband. The an-
nuity payable to the surviving wife or
husband after such participant's death shall
be 50 per centum of the amount of the par-
ticipant's annuity computed as prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this section, up to the full
amount of such annuity specified by him as
the base for the survivor benefits. The an-
nuity of the participant making such election
shall be reduced by 21/2 per centum of any
amount up to $2,400 he specified as the base
for the survivor benefit plus 10 per centum
of any amount over $2,400 so specified.
(c) (1) If an annuitant dies and is sur-
vived by a wife or husband and by a child
or children, in addition to the annuity pay-
able to the surviving wife or husband, there
shall be paid to or on behalf of each child an
annuity equal to the smallest of: (i) 40 per
centum of the annuitant's average basic
salary, as determined under paragraph (a)
of this section, divided by the number of
children; (ii) $600; or (iii) $1,800 divided
by the number of children.
(2) If an annuitant dies and is not sur-
vived by a wife or husband but by a child
or children, each surviving child shall be
paid an annuity equal to the smallest of:
(i) 50 per centum of the annuitant's average
basic salary, as determined under paragraph
19597
(a) of this section, divided by the number
of children; (11) $720; or (iii) $2,160 divided
by the number of children.
(d) If a surviving wife or husband dies or
the annuity of a child is terminated, the
annuities of any remaining children shall be
recomputed and paid as though such wife,
husband, or child had not survived the
participant.
(e) The annuity payable to a child under
paragraph (c) or (d) of this section shall
begin on the first day of the next month after
the participant dies and such annuity or any
right thereto shall be terminated upon
death, marriage, or attainment of the age of
eighteen years, except that, if a child is in-
capable of self-support by reasons of mental
or physical disability, the annuity shall be
terminated only when such child dies,
marries, or recovers from such disability.
(f) Any unmarried participant retiring
under the provisions of this Act and found
by the Director to be in good health may
at the time of retirement elect a reduced an-
nuity, in lieu of the annuity as hereinbefore
provided, and designate in writing a person
having an insurable interest (as that term
is used in 5 U.S.C. 2259(h) ) in the partici-
pant to receive an annuity after the par-
ticipant's death. The annuity payable to the
-participant making such election shall be
reduced by 10 per centum of an annuity
computed as provided in paragraph (a) of
this section, and by 5 per centum of an an-
uity so computed for each full five years the
person designated is younger than the par-
ticipant, but such total reduction shall not
exceed 40 per centum. The annuity of a
survivor designated under this paragraph
shall be 50 per centum of the reduced an-
nuity computed as prescribed above. The
annuity payable to a beneficiary under the
provisions of this paragraph shall begin on
the first day of the next month after the
participant dies. Upon the death of the sur-
viving beneficiary all payments shall cease
and no further annuity payments authorized
under this paragraph shall be due or payable.
PART D?BENEFITS ACCRUING TO CERTAIN
PARTICIPANTS
Retirement for disability or incapacity?
medical examination?recovery
SEC. 231. (a) Any participant who has five
years of service credit toward retirement un-
der the system, excluding military or naval
service that is credited in accordance with
provisions of section 251 or 252(a) (2) , and
who becomes totally disabled or incapaci-
tated for useful and efficient service by rea-
son of disease, illness, or injury not due to
vicious habits, intemperance, or willful mis-
conduct on his part, shall, upon his own ap-
plication or upon order of the Director, be
retired on an annuity computed as prescribed
in section 221. If the disabled or incapaci-
tated participant has less than twenty years
of service credit toward his retirement under
the system at the time he is retired, his an-
nuity shall be computed on the assumption
that he has had twenty years of service, but
the additional service credit that may accrue
to a participant under this provision shall
In no case exceed the difference between his
age at the time of retirement and the man-
datory retirement age applicable to his grade
In the Agency.
(b) In each case, the participant shall be
given a medical examination by one or more
duly qualified physicians or surgeons des-
ignated by the Director to conduct exami-
nations, and disability shall be determined
by the Director on the basis of the advice
of such physicians or surgeons. Unless the
disability is permanent, like examinations
shall be made annually until the annuitant
has reached the statutory mandatory retire-
ment age for his grade in the Agency. If
the Director determines on the basis of the
advice of one or more duly qualified physi-
cians or surgeons conducting such examina-
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
19598 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
tions that an annuitant has recovered to the
extent that he can return to duty, the an-
nuitant may apply for reinstatement or reap-
pointment in the Agency within one year
from the date his recovery is determined.
Upon application the Director may reinstate
any such recovered disability annuitant in
the grade in which he was serving at time
of retirement, or the Director may, taking
into consideration the age, qualifications,
and experience of such annuitant, and the
present grade of his contemporaries in the
Agency, appoint him to a grade higher than
the one in which he was serving prior to
retirement. Payment of the annuity shall
continue until a date six months after the
date of the examination showing recovery
or until the date of reinstatement or reap-
pointment in the Agency, whichever is ear-
lier. Fees for examinations under this pro-
vision, together with reasonable traveling
and other expenses incurred in order to sub-
mit to examination, shall be paid out of the
fund. If the annuitant fails to submit to
examination as required under this section,
payment of the annuity shall be suspended
until continuance of the disability is satis-
factorily established.
(c) If a recovered disability annuitant
whose annuity is discontinued is for any
reason not reinstated or reappointed in the
Agency, he shall be considered to have been
separated within the meaning of paragraphs
(a) and (b) of section 234 as of the date
he was retired for disability and he shall,
after the discontinuance of the disability
annuity, be entitled to the benefits of that
section or of section 241(a) except that he
may elect voluntary retirement in accordance
with the provisions of section 233 if he can
qualify under its provisions.
(d) No participant shall be entitled to
receive an annuity under this Act and com-
pensation for injury or disability to himself
under the Federal Employees' Compensation
Act of September '7, 1916, as amended (5
U.S.C. 751 et seq.) , covering the same period
of time. This provision shall not bar the
right of any claimant to the greater benefit
conferred by either Act for any part of the
same period of time. Neither this provision
nor any provision of the said Act of Sep-
tember 7, 1916, as amended, shall be so
construed as to deny the right of any par-
ticipant to receive an annuity under this
Act by reason of his own services and to
receive concurrently any payment under
such Act of September 7, 1916, as amended,
by reason of the death of any other person.
(e) Notwithstanding any provision of law
to the contrary, the right of any person en-
titled to an annuity under this Act shall
not be affected because such person has
received an award of compensation in a lump
sum under section 14 of the Federal Em-
ployees' Compensation Act of September 7,
1916, as amended (5 U.S.C. 764), except that
where such annuity is payable on account
of the same disability for which compensa-
tion under such section has been paid, so
much of such compensation as has been
paid for any period extended beyond the date
such annuity becomes effective, as deter-
mined by the Secretary of Labor, shall be
refunded to the Department of Labor, to be
paid into the Federal employees' compensa-
tion fund. Before such person shall receive
such annuity he shall (1) refund to the De-
partment of Labor the amount representing
such commuted payments for such extended
period, or (2) authorize the deduction of
such amount from the annuity payable to
him under this Act, which amount shall
be transmitted to such Department for reim-
bursement to such fund. Deductions from
such annuity may be made from accrued
and accruing payments, or may be prorated
against and paid from accruing payments in
such manner as the Secretary of Labor shall
determine, whenever he finds that the finan-
cial circumstances of the annuitant are such
as to warrant such deferred refunding.
Death, in .service
SEC. 232. (a) In case a participant dies
and no claim for annuity is payable under
the provisions of this Act, his contributions
to the fund, with interest at the rates
prescribed in sections 241(a) and 281(a),
shall be paid in the order of precedence
shown in section 241 (b) .
(b) If a participant, who has at least five
years of service credit toward retirement
under the system, excluding military or
naval service that is credited in accordance
with the provisions of section 251 or
252(a) (2), dies before separation or retire-
ment from the Agency and is survived by a
widow or a dependent widower, as defined
in section 204, such widow or dependent
widower shall be entitled to an annuity equal
to 50 per centum of the annuity computed
in accordance with the provisions of para-
graph (e) of this section and of section
221(a) . The annuity of such widow or de-
pendent widower shall commence on the
date following death of the participant and
shall terminate upon death of the widow or
dependent widower, or upon the dependent
widower's becoming capable of self-support.
(c) If a participant who has at least five
years of service credit toward retirement
under the system, excluding military or
naval service that is credited in accordance
with the provisions of section 251 or
252(a) (2) , dies before separation or retire-
ment from the Agency and is survived by a
wife or a husband and a child or children,
each surviving child shall be entitled to an
annuity computed in accordance with the
provisions of section 221(c) (1). The child's
annuity shall begin and be terminated in
accordance with the provisions of section
221(e) . Upon the death of the surviving
wife or husband or termination of the an-
nuity of a child, the annuities of any re-
maining children shall be recomputed and
paid as though such wife or husband or child
had not survived the participant.
(d) If a participant who has art least five
years of service credit toward retirement un-
der the system, excluding military or naval
service that is credited in accordance with
the provisions of section 251 or 252(a) (2),
dies before separation or retirement from
the Agency and is not survived by a wife
or husband, but by a child or children, each
surviving child shall be entitled to an an-
nuity computed in accordance with the pro-
visions of section 221(c) (2). The child's
annuity shall begin and terminate in accord-
ance with the provisions of section 221(e).
Upon termination of the annuity of a child,
the annuities of any remaining children shall
be recomputed and paid as though that
child had never been entitled to the benefit.
(e) If, at the time of his or her death, the
participant had less than twenty years of
service credit toward retirement under the
system, the annuities payable in accord-
ance with paragraph (b) of this section
shall be computed in accordance with the
provisions of section 221 on the assumption
he or she has had twenty years of service,
but the additional service credit that may
accrue to a deceased participant under this
provision shall in no case exceed the differ-
ence between his or her age on the date of
death and the mandatory retirement age
applicable to his or her grade in the Agency.
In all cases arising under paragraphs (b),
(c), (d), or (e) of this section, it shall be
assumed that the deceased participant was
qualified for retirement on the date of his
death.
Voluntary retirement
SEC. 233. Any participant in the system
who is at least fifty years of age and has
rendered twenty years of service may on his
own application and with the consent of the
Director be retired from the Agency and re.
October 319'
ceive benefits in accordance with the provi-
sions of section 221 provided he has not less
than five years of service with the Agency.
Discontinued service retirement
SEC. 234. (a) Any participant who sepa-
rates from the Agency after obtaining at
least five years of service credit toward re-
tirement under the system, excluding mili-
tary or naval service that is credited in ac-
cordance with the provisions of section 251 or
252(a) (2), may, upon separation from the
Agency or at any time prior to becoming
eligible for an annuity, elect to have his
contributions to the fund returned to him
in accordance with the provisions of sec-
tion 241, or (except in cases where the Di-
rector determines that separation was based
in whole or in part on the ground of dis-
loyalty to the United States) to leave his
contributions in the fund and receive an
annuity, computed as prescribed in section
221, commencing at the age of sixty years.
(b) If a participant who has qualified in
accordance with the provisions of paragraph
(a) of this section to receive a deferred an-
nuity commencing at the age of sixty dies
before reaching the age of sixty his contri-
butions to the fund, with interest, shall be
paid in accordance with the provisions of
sections 241 and 281.
(c) The Director may in his discretion
retire participants in grade GS-14 and above.
If so retired they shall receive retirement-
benefits in accordance with the provisions
of section 221, provided they have in each
case not less than five years of qualifying
and a total of ten years of service with the
Agency. Any individual so retired who does
not meet these service requirements shall
receive the benefits provided for individuals
in grade GS-13 as set out in paragraph (d)
of this section.
(d) The Director may in his discretion
retire participants in grade GS-13 and below,
and each such participant shall receive?
(1) one-twelfth of a year's salary at his
then current salary rate for each year of
service and proportionately for a fraction of
a year, but not exceeding a total of one year's
salary at his then current salary rate, pay-
able without interest, from the fund, in three
equal installments on the 1st clay of Jan-
uary following the participant's retirement
and on the two anniversaries of this date
immediately following: Provided, That in
special cases, the Director may in his dis-
cretion accelerate OT combine the install-
ments; and
(2) a refund of the contributions made to
the fund, with interest as provided in sec-
tion 241(a), except that in lieu of such re-
fund such participant, if he has at least five
years of service credit toward retirement un-
der the system, excluding military or naval
service that is credited in accordance with
the provisions of section 251 or 252(a) (2),
may elect to receive retirement benefits on
reaching the age of sixty in accordance with
the provisions of section 221. In the event
that a participant who was separated from
grade GS-13 or 05-12 and who has elected
to receive retirement benefits dies before
reaching the age of sixty, his death shall be
considered a death in service within the
meaning of section 232. In the event that
a participant who was separated from grade
GS-11 or below and who has elected to re-
ceive retirement benefits dies before reaching
the age of sixty, the total amount of his
contributions made to the fund, with interest
as provided in section 241(a), shall be paid
In accordance with the provisions of section
241 (b ) .
(e) Notwithstanding the provisions of sec-
tion 3477 of the Revised Statutes, as amended
(31 U.S.C. 203), or the provisions of any
other law, a participant who is retired in
accordance with the provisions of paragraph
(d) of this section shall have the right to
assign to any person or corporation the whole
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
?
, ?
.41963
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
or any part of the benefits receivable by him
pursuant to paragraph (d) (1) of this sec-
tion.
Mandatory retirement for age
SEC. 235. (a) Any participant in the system
in grade GS-18 or above shall upon reaching
the age of sixty-five be retired from the
Agency and receive retirement benefits in
accordance with the provisions of section
221, but whenever the Director shall deter-
mine it to be in the public interest, he may
extend such a participant's service for a
period not to exceed five years.
(b) Any participant in the system, other
than in grade GS-18 or above, shall upon
reaching the age of sixty be retired from the
Agency and receive retirement benefits in
accordance with the provisions of section
221, but whenever the Director shall deter-
mine it to be in the public interest, he may
extend such a participant's service for a pe-
riod not to exceed five years.
PART E?DLSPOS/TION OF CONTRIBUTIONS AND
INTEREST IN EXCESS OF BENEFITS RECEIVED
SEC. 241. (a) Whenever a participant be-
comes separated from the Agency without
becoming eligible for an annuity or a de-
ferred annuity in accordance with the pro-
visions of this Act, the total amount of con-
tributions from his salary with interest there-
on at 4 per centum per annum, compounded
annually as of December 31, and propor-
tionately for the period served during the
year of separation including all contribu-
tions made during or for such period, except
as provided in section 281, shall be returned
to him.
(b) In the event that the total contribu-
tions of a retired participant, other than
voluntary contributions made in accordance
with the provisions of section 281, with in-
terest at 4 per centum per annum com-
pounded annually as is provided in para-
graph (a) of this section added thereto, ex-
ceed the total amount returned to such par-
ticipant or to an annuitant claiming through
him, in the form of annuities, accumulated
at the same rate of interest up to the date
the annuity payments cease under the terms
of the annuity, the excess of the accumulated
contributions over the accumulated annuity
payments shall be paid in the following
order of precedence, upon the establishment
of a valid claim therefor, and such payment
shall be a bar to recovery by an other person:
(1) To the beneficiary or beneficiaries des-
ignated by such participant in writing to the
Director;
(2) If there by no such beneficiary to the
surviving wife or husband of such partic-
ipant;
(3) If none of the above, to the child or
children of such participant and descend-
ants of deceased children by representation;
(4) If one of the above, to the parents of
such participant or the survivor of them;
(5) If none of the above, to the duly ap-
pointed executor or administrator of the
estate of such participant;
(6) If none of the above, to other next of
kin of such participant as may be deter-
mined by the Director in his judgment to
be legally entitled thereto.
(c) No payment shall be made pursuant
to paragraph (b) (6) of this section until
after the expiration of thirty days from the
death of the retired participant or his sur-
viving annuitant.
PART F?PERIOD OF SERVICE FOR ANNUITIES
Computation of length of service
SEC. 251. For the purposes of this Act, the
period of service of a participant shall be
computed from the date he becomes a par-
ticipant under the provisions of this Act,
but all periods of separation from the Agency
and so much of any leaves of absence with-
out pay as may exceed six months in the ag-
gregate in any calendar year shall be ex-
cluded, except leaves of absence while re-
ceiving benefits under the Federal Employ-
ees' Compensation Act of September 7, 1916,
as amended (5 U.S.C. 751 et seq.), and leaves
of absence granted participants while per-
forming active and honorable military or
naval service in the Army, Navy, Air Force,
Marine Corps, or Coast Guard of the United
States.
Prior service credit
Szo. 252. (a) A participant may, subject
ot the provisions of this section, include in
his period of service?
(1) civilian service in the executive, judi-
cial, and legislative branches of the Federal
Government and in the District of Columbia
government, prior to becoming a participant;
and
(2) active and honorable military or naval
service in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine
Corps, or Coast Guard of the United States.
(b) A participant may obtain prior civilian
service credit in accordance with the pro-
visions of paragraph (a) (1) of this section
by making a special contribution to the
fund equal to 5 per centum of his basic
annual salary for each year of service for
which credit is sought prior to November 8,
1960, and at 61/2 per centum thereafter with
interest compounded annually at 4 per
centum per annum to the date of payment.
Any such participant may, under such con-
ditions as may be determined in each in-
stance by the Director, pay such special
contributions in installments.
(c) (1) If an officer or employee under
some other Government retirement system
becomes a participant in the system by di-
rect transfer, such officer or employee's total
contributions and deposits, including interest
accrued thereon, except voluntary contribu-
tions, shall be transferred to the fund effec-
tive as of the date such officer or employee
becomes a participant in the system. Each
such officer or employee shall be deemed to
consent to the transfer of such funds and
such transfer shall be a complete discharge
and acquittance of all claims and demands
against the other Government retirement
fund on account of service rendered prior to
becoming a participant in the system.
(2) No participant, whose contributions
are transferred to the fund in accordance
with the provisions of paragraph (c) (1) of
this section, shall be required to make con-
tributions in addition to those transferred
for periods of service for which full con-
tributions were made to the other Govern-
ment retirement fund, nor shall any refund
be made to any such participant on account
of contributions made during any period to
the other Government retirement fund at
a higher rate than that fixed by section 211
of this Act for contributions to the fund.
(3) No participant, whose contributions
are transfered to the fund in accordance
with the provisions of paragraph (c) (1)
of this section, shall receive credit for periods
of service for which a refund of contribu-
tions has been made, or for which no con-
tributions were made to the other Govern-
ment retirement fund. A participant may,
however, obtain credit for such prior service
by making a special contribution to the fund
in accordance with the provisions of para-
graph (b) of this section.
(d) No particpant may obtain prior civil-
ian service credit toward retirement under
the system for any period of civilian serv-
ice on the basis of which he is receiving
or will in the future be entitled to receive
any annuity under another retirement sys-
tem covering civilian personnel of the Gov-
ernment.
(e) A participant may obtain prior mili-
tary or naval service credit in accordance
with the provisions of paragraph (a) (2) of
this section by applying for it to the Di-
rector prior to retirement or separation from
the Agency. However, in the case of a par-
ticipant who is eligible for and receives
retired pay on account of military or naval
19599
service, the period of service upon which
such retired pay is based shall not be in-
cluded, except that in the case of a partici-
pant who is eligible for and receives retired
pay on account of a service-connected dis-
ability incurred in combat with an enemy
of the United States or caused by an instru-
mentality of war and incurred in line of
duty during a period of war (as that term
is used in chapter 11 of title 38, United
States Code), or is awarded under chapter
67 of title 10 of the United States Code, the
period of such military or naval service shall
be included. No contributions to the fund
shall be required in connection with mili-
tary or naval service credited to a partici-
pant in accordance with the provisions of
paragraph (a) (2) of this section.
Credit for service while on military leave
SEC. 253. Contributions shall not be re-
quired covering periods of leave of absence
from the Agency granted a participant while
performing active military or naval service
In the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps,
or Coast Guard of the United States.
PART G?MONEYS
Estimate of appropriations needed
SEC. 261. The Director shall prepare the
estimates of the annual appropriations re-
quired to be made to the fund, and shall
cause to be made actuarial valuations of the
fund at intervals of five years, or oftener if
deemed necessary by him.
Investment of moneys in the fund
SEC. 262. The Director may, with the ap-
proval of the Secretary of the Treasury,
invest from time to time in interest-bearing
securities of the United States such por-
tions of the fund as in his judgment may
not be immediately required for the payment
of annuities, cash benefits, refunds, and
allowances, and the income derived from
such investments shall constitute a part of
such fund.
Attachments of moneys
SEC. 263. None of the moneys mentioned
in this Act shall be assignable either in law
or equity, or be subject to execution, levy,
attachment, garnishment, or other legal proc-
ess, except as provided in section 234(e).
PART H?RETIRED PARTICIPANTS RECALLED, REIN-
STATED, OR REAPPOINTED IN THE AGENCY, OR
REEMPLOYED /N THE GOVERNMENT RECALL
SEC. 271. (a) The Director may recall any
retired participant to duty in the Agency
whenever he shall determine such recall is
in the public interest.
(b) Any such participant recalled to duty
in the Agency in accordance with the pro-
visions of paragraph (a) of this section or
reinstated or reappointed in accordance with
the provisions of section 231(b) shall, while
so serving, be entitled in lieu of his annuity
to the lull salary of the grade in which he is
serving. During such service, he shall make
contributions to the fund in accordance with
the provisions of section 211. When he re-
verts to his retired status, his annuity shall
be determined anew in accordance with the
provisions of section 221.
Reemployment
SEC. 272. Notwithstanding any other pro-
vision of law, a participant retired under the
provisions of this Act shall not, by reason
of his retired status, be barred from em-
ployment in Federal Government service in
any appointive position for which he is qual-
ified. An annuitant so reemployed shall
serve at the will of the appointing officer.
Reemployment compensation
SEC. 273. (a) Notwithstanding any other
provision of law, any annuitant who has re-
tired under this Act and who is reemployed
in the Federal Government service in any
appointive position either on a part-time or
full-time basis shall be entitled to receive
the salary of the position in which he is
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
19600 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE
serving plus so much of his annuity payable
under this Act which when combined with
such salary does not exceed during any cal-
endar year the basic salary such annuitant
was entitled to receive on the date of his
retirement from the Agency. Any such re-
employed annuitant who receives salary dur-
ing any calendar year in excess of the maxi-
mum amount which he may be entitled to
receive under this paragraph shall be en-
titled to such salary in lieu of benefits here-
under.
(b) When any such retired annuitant is
reemployed, the employer shall send a notice
to the Agency of such reemployment together
with all pertinent information relating
thereto, and shall pay directly to such an-
nuitant the salary of the position in which
he is serving.
(c) In the event of any overpayment under
this section, such overpayment shall be re-
covered by withholding the amount involved
from the salary payable to such reemployed
annuitant, or from any other moneys, in-
cluding his annuity, payable in accordance
with the provisions of this Act.
PART I?VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS
SEC. 281. (a) Any participant may, at his
option and under such regulations as may be
prescribed by the Director, deposit additional
sums in multiples of 1 per centum of his
basic salary, but not in excess of 10 per
centum of such salary, which amounts to-
gether with interest at 3 per centum per
annum, compounded annually as of Decem-
ber 31, and proportionately for the period
served during the year of his retirement, in-
cluding all contributions made during or for
such period, shall, at the date of his retire-
ment and at his election, be?
(1) returned to him in lump sum; or
(2) used to purchase an additional life
annuity; or
(3) used to purchase an additional life
annuity for himself and to provide for a cash
payment on his death to a beneficiary whose
name shall be notified in writing to the Di-
rector by the participant; or
(4) used to purchase an additional life
annuity for himself and a life annuity com-
mencing on his death payable to a bene-
ficiary whose name shall be notified in
writing to the Director by the participant
with a guaranteed return to the beneficiary
or his legal representative of an amount
equal to the cash payment referred to in
subparagraph (3) above.
(b) The benefits provided by subpara-
graphs (2), (3), or (4) of paragraph (a) of
this section shall be actuarially equivalent in
value to the payment provided for by sub-
paragraph (a) (1) of this section and shall
be calculated upon such tables of mortality
as may be from time to time prescribed for
this purpose by the Director.
(c) In case a participant shall become
separated from the Agency for any reason
except retirement on an annuity, the amount
of any additional deposits with interest at
3 per centum per annum, compounded as is
provided in paragraph (a) of this section,
made by him under the provisions of said
paragraph (a) shall be refunded in the man-
ner provided in section 241 for the return of
contributions and interest in the case of
death or separation from the Agency.
(d) Any benefits payable to a participant
or to his beneficiary in respect to the addi-
tional deposits provided under this section
shall be in addition to the benefits other-
wise provided under this Act.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina (inter-
rupting reading of the bill) . Mr. Chair-
man, I ask unanimous consent that the
bill be considered as read and open at
any point to amendment.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
South Carolina?
There was no objection.
AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. RIVERS OF SOUTH
CAROLINA
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, I offer an amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. RIVERS of
South Carolina: On page 3, lines 13 to 16,
strike out the first sentence of SEC. 203, and
substitute in lieu thereof the following lan-
guage: "The Director may designate from
time to time such Agency officers and em-
ployees whose duties are determined by the
Director to be (i) in support of Agency ac-
tivities abroad hazardous to life or health or
(ii) so specialized because of security re-
quirements as to be clearly distinguishable
from normal government employment, here-
after referred to as participants, who shall be
entitled to the benefits of the system."
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, the purpose of this amend-
ment is to establish legislative criteria
by which the Agency would determine
those employees who would become par-
ticipants in this' system. The commit-
tee during hearings examined very care-
fully the question of what type of em-
ployees should be covered and which em-
ployees should remain under normal civil
service retirement.
It was made clear that the purpose was
to cover only career employees whose
duties and responsibilities are predom-
inantly concerned with the conduct and
support of intelligence activities in for-
eign countries. It was also developed in
the hearings, and with actual cases as ex-
amples furnished in executive sessions,
that career employees whose duties are
so specialized that they are placed at in
unusual disadvantage when required to
seek other employment would also be
covered by this system.
A significant number of these actual
cases were furnished the committee in
the executive hearings to illustrate the
types of employees who would be cov-
ered. One of the threads running
through these cases was the hazard both
to person and to health. Employees as
well as their dependents have contracted
diseases which would rarely, if ever, be
found in the United States. We heard
about cases where employees were
wounded or killed by gunfire, and in
some cases imprisoned.
In certain phases of the Agency's ac-
tivities there are requirements for un-
usual specialties requiring long years of
arduous training for which skills there
could be no utilization in normal employ-
ment pursuits.
We learned of certain situations where,
through no fault of the employee, his
skills and he himself, became excess to
the needs of the Agency or for certain
reasons he could no longer be utilized
effectively by the Agency. These are the
people who will be covered?not the
clerk, analyst, or researcher who spends
his career in Washington.
In furtherance of the objective of con-
cisely stating these criteria and furnish-
ing Statutory guidelines to the Director
in selecting participants without at the
same time imposing undue rigidity, lan-
guage has been developed which is satis-
factory to those members with whom I
have consulted and is also agreeable to
?!'
? 6
October A
other members of the Armed Services
Committee with whom I have consulted.
The specific language was inserted in
section 203 and provides that the Di-
rector may designate employees "whose
duties are determined by the Director to
be (i) in support of Agency activities
abroad hazardous to life or health or
(ii) so specialized because of security
requirements as to be clearly distin-
guishable from normal Government em-
ployment." I believe this language
fulfills the objective desired and recom-
mend it for inclusion.
Specifically on page 3 of H.R. 8427,
at lines 13 to 16, strike out the first
sentence of section 203 and substitute
in lieu thereof the following language:
The Director may designate from time to
time such Agency officers and employees
whose duties are determined by the Director'
to be (i) in support of Agency activities
abroad hazardous to life or health or (ii) so
specialized because of security requirements
as to be clearly distinguishable from normal
Go as ip
overnpmaretnicteamill, who oyme shall
be
entitled
trelfeed to t o
the benefits of t,he system.
AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. GROSS
Mr. GROSS. Mr. Chairman, I offer a
substitute amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. GROSS as a
substitute for the amendment offved by Mr.
RIVERS of South Carolina: On page 3, be-
ginning on line 13, strike the first .sentence
and insert the following:
"Sm. 208. The Director may designate
from time to time such agencies, officers, and
employees whose duties are determined by
the Director to be in support of agency ac-
tivities abroad or in this country that are
hazardous to life or health."
(Mr. GROSS asked and was given
permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. GROSS. Mr. Chairman, as I said
before, the amendment offered by the
gentleman from South Carolina in my
opinion closes the door and then reopens
it. I am not willing to leave to the Di-
rector of the CIA the full determination
of normal Government employment.
The language also reads to this effect,
"so specialized because of security re-
quirements." I do not know of any
employee in the CIA who is not consid-
ered to be employed in a security agency.
Therefore, they could all come under this
language "so specialized because of secu-
rity requirements." Why would not
every employee of the CIA be under that
label, definition and interpretation? As
I said before, I am perfectly willing to
provide a special retirement program for
those who are engaged in work that is
hazardous to life or health, but I am not
willing to leave it to the Director of the
CIA to include anybody else in this fast
retirement program. That is the import
of my amendment. It does not change
the remainder section 203.
Mr. CORBETT. Mr. Chairman, will
the gentleman yield?
Mr. GROSS. I yield to the gentle-
man.
Mr. CORBETT. I want to commend
the gentleman for this,substitute amend-
ment that he has offered which would
tighten up a very loose arrangement. In
the first place, taking this kind of action
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
- ? -
IPIP 63
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD HOUSE
without real deep consideration by the the specialized fields. The gentleman's
committee handling pensions is unusual. amendment says here that if they engage
Second, granting this discretidnary in any activity abroad or in this country
power to one person in the CIA, the Di- which will prove a hazard to life or
rector, to determine who shall get the health.
Pension protection and who shall not is Mr. BATES. I understand the gentle-
a discretion that should not be in the man's question. Mr. Chairman, this is
hands of one individual. But if it has not the first time on this floor I have been
to be, this amendment of the gentleman in this kind of a position where the an-
from Iowa should be adopted because it sWer to the question?and the gentleman
at least puts some restrictions upon this from Pennsylvania should know this?
discretionary authority. I commend the would impair the national security.
gentleman and support the substitute Mr. CORBETT. That is why I asked
amendment that he has offered, the gentleman in those words.
Mr. GROSS. I thank the gentleman. Mr. BATES. I will be glad to give this
I am sure the gentleman being the rank- information to the gentleman.
ing minority member of the House Corn- Mr. CORBETT. I said if the gentle-
mittee on Post Office and Civil Service man could answer.
will also agree with me that we must Mr. BATES. I will be glad to give this
watch carefully from here on out as to information to the gentleman personally.
the number of persons and the expendi- Mr. CORBETT. Could you imagine
tures that are made from the retirement some case that would not be covered by
fund because, I repeat, it is $38 billion in this?
the red and going deeper in the red by Mr. BATES. Yes indeed, and I will be
billions of dollars every year. glad to give the information to the
Mr. CORBETT. And as this bill gentleman.
stands, you would not know how many Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. I can
are going to be able to draw on the pen- imagine one, and I will be glad, to give
sion?whether it is hundreds or thou- \it to you. We need electronics experts
sands or what the figure might be; is and people with unusual skills requiring
that not correct? all kinds of training.
Mr. GROSS. That is correct.Mr. CORBETT. If you need?them,
Mr. CORBETT. I think both in the "f why do you retire them early?
interest of the fund and in the interest I Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Be-
of fairplay for all the rest of the ern::\lcause the skills may disappear.
ployees whose paychecks contribute to c' Mr. CORBETT. They may do what?
this retirement fund that this restriction I Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. The
ought to be passed. need for them may disappear. That is
Mr. GROSS. I again thank the gen- I why.
tleman from Pennsylvania, who is a vet- i Mr. BATES. Mr. Chairman, I still
eran member of the Post Office and Civil have the floor here.
Service Committee and who takes a lead- I would like to say that we did go into
ing part in the writing of all other re- this matter very fully. Both on the
tirement legislation, record and off the record we were told
Mr. BATES. Mr. Chairman, I rise in of the type of individuals who do this
support of the amendment and in opposi- work and the nature of the work which
tion to the substitute. they perform. We were satisfied as rep-
In the course of our hearings the resentatives of this Congress with the
doubts that were expressed by the gen- answers which were given to us. Al-
tleman from Pennsylvania and the gen- though we originally had certain doubts,
tleman from Iowa were also entertained when it was all over that doubt was dis-
by the members of the subcommittee. spelled. It seems to me if this Congress
What they have said on this floor today is to take action today, it should resolve
is similar to the same statements which the doubt so that the security of our
we ourselves made when we were in corn- country would not be impaired.
mittee. Contrary to what the gentle- I am satisfied in my own mind as to
man from Pennsylvania said, we did give the need for this second provision and
this matter deep consideration. We the wording of the language. When we
went into it very thoroughly. So, when went before the Committee on Rules they
the representatives of the CIA came be- had the same problem in their mind.
fore us we asked them specifically what This is language which has been cleared
they had in mind relative to these un- by the Committee on Rules and it spells
usual individuals to whom would accrue out what we had in mind when the mat-
these retirement benefits. They spelled ter was considered by the committee. It
these things out in detail not only with seems to me this is as far as we can go
reference to those engaged in hazardous in considering the nature of the matter
work but also those engaged in fields so under discussion. Therefore, I ask that
specialized that they were very difficult the substitute be defeated and the
to obtain. Upon the completion of their amendment of the gentleman from South
remarks the members of our committee Carolina be passed.
were unanimously satisfied with the an- Mr. JOHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, will
swers to the questions and we understood the gentleman yield?
fully who was to receive the entitlements Mr. BATES. I yield to the gentleman
of this particular bill. from Michigan.
Mr. CORBETT. Mr. Chairman, will Mr. JOHANSEN. I wonder if some of
the gentleman yield? the misgivings and concern that are be-
Mr. BATES. I yield to the gentleman ing expressed here, and which I share,
from Pennsylvania. do not arise from the fact that the bill
\L Mr. CORBETT. I would like to ask that the committee brings to the floor
the gentleman, if he can, to say what are has a completely wide open door. Ap-
19601
parently the committee itself had a seri-
ous second thought on the matter and
evidences that serious second thought
by offering what purports to be a restric-
tive amendment.
Mr. BATES. I will say to the gentle-
man the thought we have is not a second
thought but a primary thought. We
thought about this originally. This mat-
ter which developed today is to be ex-
pected. Anyone who considers this bill
would understand this would be the first
thought that would come to their mind.
After we went into it in great detail the
committee received the assurances of the
CIA as to what they had in mind. We
were satisfied with these assurances.
Mr. JOHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I
move to strike but the last word.
Mr. Chairman, I just raise the ques-
tion again?and I do not want to be un-
fair to or critical of the committee, but
if, as the gentleman has said, this was
a matter of such earnest thought, it
seems to me that It would have been
more timely to propose this corrective
feature before the bill was brought out
of the committee. But beyond that, the
thing that concerns me?and I think I
can conceive of a situation very readily
in which it is impossible for security rea-
sons to spell out or itemize the types of
employment or position or job classifica-
tion that are covered?but is it possible
in some way, in expressions of members
of the committee to give the clear legis-
lative intent in connection with this par-
ticular matter which will preclude the
very thing which the members of the
Committee on Post Office and Civil Serv-
ice are so much concerned about?
Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. JOHANSEN. I am happy to yield
to the gentleman from Virginia.
Mr. HARDY. I think the only way
that that could be cleared up?and it
cannot be expressed here on the floor?
is this. I will say to the gentleman that
the transcript of the hearings is com-
plete, that all of these phases were dis-
cussed fully by the subcommittee over a
long period of time. There are classified
transcripts of the hearings that are in
the committee safe, and they establish
without question the intent of the CIA
with respect to the application of this
proposal.
Mr. JOHANSEN. I assume, therefore,
that I have the commitment of the gen-
tleman from Virginia that the subcom-
mittee of the Committee on Armed Serv-
ices will police the matter to see that
that intent is not violated?
Mr. HARDY. I am assured by the
chairman of the full committee that the
matter will be policed.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. JOHANSEN. I yield to the chair-
man of the subcommittee.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, I was going to give the gen-
tleman the same assurance that the gen-
tleman for Virginia [Mr. HARDY] gave.
What I read was this: In certain phases
of the Agency's activities there are re-
quirements for unusual specialties re-
quiring long years of arduous training
for which in some cases there could be
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7
?
19602 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ? HOUSE October '30'
no utilization in normal employment
pursuits.
If you need anything else, you may
have it from our committee secret file.
Mr. JOHANSEN. I understand the
gentleman in effect to say that there are
what amount to temporary job require-
ments.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Posi-
tively. We cannot tell everything we
know. We must ask you to believe that
we have gone into these matters.
Mr. JOHANSEN. The gentleman I
am sure knows that I am prepared, cer-
tainly, to believe him.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. The
gentleman has all the assurances that
we have carefully policed this work.
Mr. GROSS. Mr. Chairman, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. JOHANSEN. I yield.
Mr. GROSS. The gentleman from
South Carolina says that this early re-
tirement is necessary in part to take care
of specialties, and he mentioned elec-
tronics. I imagine we have several
thousand specialists in electronics
throughout the Government. If we are
going to provide early retirement for all
the specialists in electronics throughout
the Government, that $38 billion that
the retirement fund is in the red will
be $50 billion if this is the criteria you
are going to use to try to convince us
that we ought to give early retirement to
whomsoever the Director of the CIA may
select.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. JOHANSEN. I yield.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, in response to the gentleman
from Iowa there are many specialties. I
happened to mention electronics. There
are many that we cannot mention. We
know what they are. But we cannot
here open up the heart of the CIA to
everybody.
Mr. JOHANSEN. Of course, we do not
expect the gentleman to do that and we
would not request it for a moment. In
taking this time I believe I have received
what I asked for, which was the assur-
ance that there was a clear legislative
intent in the record of the subcommittee
and the assurances of the committee and
the subcommittee chairmen and the dis-
tinguished chairman of the full commit-
tee, that the matter would be carefully
policed.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. The
gentleman has it.
Mr. JOHANSEN. I appreciate that. I
will say too that I trust the gentleman
understands a little bit of the distrust
that some of us on the legislative com-
mittee have toward the bureaucracy.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the substitute amendment offered by the
gentleman from Iowa, to the amendment
offered by the gentleman from South
Carolina.
The question was taken; and on a
division (demanded by Mr. GROSS) there
were?ayes, 20, noes, 67.
So the substitute amendment was
rejected.
The CHAIRMAN. The question now
recurs on the amendment offered by the
gentleman from South Carolina.
The amendment was agreed to.
AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. JONES or
MISSOURI
Mr. JONES of Missouri. Mr. Chair-
man, I offer an amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment offered by Mr. JONES of Mis-
souri: On page 2, line 15, strike the period
1 . and insert a semicolon followed by "such
rules and regulations to become effective
after approval by the chairmen and ranking
minority members of the Armed Services
Committees of the House and Senate."
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. Mr.
Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. JONES of Missouri. I yield to
the gentleman from South Carolina.
Mr. RIVERS of South Carolina. We
accept your amendment.
Mr. JONES of Missouri. I thank the
gentleman.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on
the amendment offered by the gentle-
man from Missouri [Mr. JONES].
The amendment was agreed to.
-Mr. MILLER of California. Mr.
Chairman, I move to strike the requisite
number of words.
(Mr. MILLER of California asked and
was given permission to speak out of
order and to revise and extend his re-
marks.)
Mr. MILLER of California. Mr.
Chairman, we have all listened now to
a lot of interpretations concerning what
Premier Khrushchev meant when he
talked about the Soviet moon program on
October 28. I would like to point out
that most of the interpretations which
have been enuciated thus far have come
from those with no direct connection
with, or responsibility for, the space pro-
gram. I have taken the trouble to look
up the exact transcript of Mr. Khru-
shchev's remarks and I heartily commend
it to the attention of every Member of
House. A careful reading of what Mr.
Khrushchev actually said, to my mind,
does not indicate that the Soviets are
cutting down on their own space pro-
gram; it does not indicate that they are
not heading for a manned lunar orbit in
the near future; it does not indicate that
they are abandoning any part of their
original plans.
Let me make one other point. The
fact that we have not heard much lately
concerning any deep space efforts on the
part of the Soviets does not at all mean
that they have not been attempting
them. We can be pretty certain that
they have been making a number of
complex attempts which in one way or
another have not succeeded. They, like
ourselves, have run into a very advanced
technical area where the developmental
going is rough. Very possibly they are
having enough scientific and engineering
troubles to keep them relatively quiet.
Mr. Speaker, the precise comments of
Chairman Khrushchev follow:
Journalist Leopold Vargas, of Colombia
asks: Can you tell us whether a flight to the
moon by Soviet cosmonauts is planned for
the not too distant future?
KHRIISHCHEV. It would be very interest-
ing to take a trip to the moon. But I can-
not at present say when this will be done.
We are not at present planning flights by
cosmonauts to the moon. Soviet scientists
are working on this problem. It is being
studied as a scientific problem and the neces-
' sary research is being done. I have a report
to the effect that the Americans want to land
a man on the moon by 1970-80. Well, let's
wish them success. We shall see how they
will fly there, how they will land on the
moon and, more important, how they will
start off and return home. We shall take
their experience into account. We do not
want to compete with the sending of peo-
ple to the moon without careful prepara-
tion. It is clear that no benefits would be
derived from such a competition. On the
contrary, it would be harmful as it might
result in the destruction of people. We have
a frequently quoted joke: He who cannot
bear it any longer on earth may fly to the
moon. But we are all right on earth, to
speak seriously, much work will have to be
clone and good preparations made for a suc-
cesful flight to the moon by man.
Mr. Chairman, I want to reiterate
what I have said on this floor many
times, that in sending a man to the
moon we are doing so not because we
are in competition with the Russians or
anyone else but because this program
is designed as a part of the scientific
facet of the exploration of outer space.
The information we develop from this
program will be used in that exploration.
I for one am not ready to see the leader-
ship in this field surrendered to the Rus-
sians.
The CHAIRMAN. Under the rule, the
Committee rises.
Accordingly, the Committee rose; and
the Speaker having resumed the chair,
Mr. THOMAS, Chairman of the Commit-
tee of the Whole House on the State
of the Union, reported that that Com-
mittee, having had under consideration
the bill (H.R. 8427) to provide for the
establishment and maintenance of a
Central Intelligence Agency retirement
and disability system for a limited num-
ber of employees, and for other purposes,
pursuant to House Resolution 543, he re-
ported the bill back to the House with
sundry amendments adopted by the
Committee of the Whole.
The SPEAKER. Under the rule, the
previous question is ordered.
Is a separate vote demanded on any
amendment?
If not, the Chair will put them en
gros.
The amendments were agreed to.
The SPEAKER. The question is on
the engrossment and third reading of
the bill.
The bill was ordered to be engrossed
and read a third time, and was read the
third time.
The SPEAKER. The question is on
the passage of the bill.
The bill was passed.
A motion to reconsider was laid on
the table.
RETIREMENT OF LINDSLEY H.
NOBLE
(Mr. GARY asked and was given per-
mission to address the House for 1
minute and to revise and extend his re-
marks.)
Mr. GARY. Mr. Speaker, on the last
day of this month Mr. Lindsley H. Noble
will retire from his position as Deputy
Assistant Postmaster General and Con-
troller of the Post Office Department.
When Mr. Noble joined the Post Office
Department on September 1, 1955, as its
Declassified and Approved For Release 2013/07/05: CIA-RDP80M01009A000100050016-7