INTERVIEW OF NIKITA S. KHRUSHCHEV ON OPEN END BY DAVID SUSSKIND ON SUNDAY, 9 OCTOBER 1960

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP80B01676R003700060047-7
• Release Decision: RIFPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 38
• Document Creation Date: December 14, 2016
• Document Release Date: April 29, 2003
• Sequence Number: 47
• Publication Date: October 9, 1960
• Content Type: TRANS

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INTERVIEW OF NIKITA S. KHRUSHCFICV ON "OPEN END" BY DAVID SUSSKIND ON
SUNDAY, 9 OCTOBER 1960
S- "Mr. Khrushchev, in Mr. Macmillan's address to the United Nat ons
General Assembly, he said, among other things, quote: "The sponge
of public opinion is almost saturated with the persistent flood
of propaganda, it can pick up no more. Ordinary people all suer
the world, in their present; mood, are beginning to tire of tho
same conventional slogans and catch words.' The people of our
country and the people of the world, I think, are very concerned
about a host of issues, I hope tonight's questions and answers
will supply them with information that they desperately seek.
The first question, Mr. Khrushchev - from personal observation-,
and from the reports of your officials in this country, you It
know that our people are dedicated to peace with honor. You
must know too that ours is a representative government, elect?d
by our people and fully responsive to them. Why then, do you
continue to perpetuate the myth that the American people are
peace loving and well intentioned, but that their government is
imperialistic, warmongering and deceitful - the fact is, and I
think you know it, that the American people, and the American
government, whether Republican or Democratic, are one and the
same, with no interest or desire to violate any other sovereignty
(EXE60 T VE R G U i FREE
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or extend its territories, or colonize any nation in any part of
the world in any manner whatsoever."
K- "The question that you have just posed can give - that is the rej~ly
to the question, can give rise to certain - to a certain miscon-
ception with regard to the reply, but I shall certainly do my bef,t
to answer the question without shirking it in the way that this
question should be answered."
S- "I wish I knew what you were saying!"
K- "He will tell you. With regard to the social systems existing ii
our countries, with regard to the state structure and our govern.
ments, I would not like to add anything or to comment in any way
with regard to your words to the effect that your government is
responsible to the various institutions - state institutions
existing in this country. I would merely like to say that
evidentally you are not very well acquainted with our system,
because the fact is that in our country all the various fixnction?-
aries are elected, and.all are responsible before the people,
they are all directly elected, and the people who are elected in-,o
the various legislative and executive bodies in the Soviet Union
are all men of labor, they are workers, peasants or intellectual..,
and for that matter, I am, so to say, a living exhibit of that
because I, in my youth, was a worker, my father was a worker and
my grandfather was a peasant, and from my - from an early age I
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started to work and it was as a result of my diligence, of my desire
to serve my people, that the people responded by electing me to a
high - to this high office. But I would not like to enter into
any argument with regard to the merits of the various systems -
with regard to the fact chose - whose government is more repre-
sentative or more democratic, because if we were to enter into
such a dispute, I would start praising my state and my government
and my constitution, you would start praising yours, and that
would only lead to an aggravation and would not serve any uset'ul--"
S- "With apologies to Mr. Khrushchev, he has not answered my questicn,
I an not comparing our governments, I asked him why, he, throughout
the world, continues to draw a real cleavage between our people E.nd
our government, saying that our people are peace-loving, but our
government is warmongering - our government is exactly coincident
with the temper of our people, they are one and the same, they are
both peace-loving so long as peace be accompanied by honor."
K- "You were just a little bit in too much of a hurry, because I
only - I had only just replied to the first part of that question
you posed me, and after the translation of that first part is
finished, I will go on to rep--_y to the second part. I will certainly
do so. The last part of that - the answer to the first question
was you - you may please live under the system that you peefer
and let us live under the system that we prefer and go on living
under that system. You are a young man and evidently in too mue-,
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of a hurry, you are trying to overtake me by taking advantage of
your young age, but I - despite my age, I will certainly try to
compete with you and not to let you - and to keep abreast with
you. Wait for my replies - I - I didn't reply yet to your question.'
S- "You mean that wasn't a preface?"
K- "I haven't yet replied to the second part of your question. You
are trying to involve me in a discussion regarding your governmert.
I do not think that I should enter into any such dispute, because
it is your government, after all, and it is for the - it is for
your people to judge that - of that government. If I were to
try to do so, that would - that could be construed as an attempt
to interfere in the internal affairs of the American people and
I would not like to be misunderstood on that point. But now I
would like to give a reply."
"Now let him reply - we will drink some borzhomi [mineral water -17
in the meantime."
"We say that the government of the Soviet Union, which I head in my
capacity of Chairman of the Council of Ministers, is the most pea:Ie-
loving government in the world. If you say, and I believe you if'
you say so, that the people of the United States are peace-loving
people, and that the government of these United States is likewis-,
a peace-loving government, then I would just like to raise one
question. Recall that last year I was in this country as the
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guest of your government. I - it gave me pleasure to accept the
invitation to come here, and I came with good intentions to
establish personal contacts with the President - or rather to
renew these contacts because we had met before, and I came
bearing the best wishes of our people and our government, and
I wanted to establish good personal relations with the President.
And we had - we did indeed have some very good talks and I recall
that we sat and talked and had some - and had coffee, and during
that conversation, and I certainly like those words very much,
he said - he called - he turned to me and - with the words, 'my
friend' in English, and he said, 'Learn those words, Mr. Khrushchev,
they mean' - and he had them translated for me, and I said, 'very
good, then allow me also to call you "moi drug" which is - which
is "my friend" in Russian,' and everything went very well indeed.
I was seen off with honors, and when I came back I reported to
my people that very good relations were coming into being with
the United States of America, and this certainly was something
that gladened - that made all our people glad because, after all,
it is the dream of our people to have good relations between the
Soviet Union and the United States, because after all, if such
relations - peaceable and good relations exist, between the United
States and the Soviet Union, this will mean that there will be r:i
war between either our two countries or indeed throughout the world -
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in the whole world. But what - but what happened later, what did
your government do on the eve, virtually, of the Paris Summit
Meeting - the United States government sent a U-2 plane into the
Soviet Union, and then afterwards - after that it sent a second
plane on May the first -it sent a second U-2 plane inside the
borders of the Soviet Union. Naturally we reacted to that and
said that was some - that was not conducive to good relations.
Just imagine what would have been your reaction say if we had
sent our plane into the United States, let us say, over New York
for example. How would you .- what would have been your opinion
of me, a person who had been here as a guest, had eaten your bread
and salt, and then had sent his plane into your country. Certaily
you would have evaluated it ?- that as an unfriendly act. We
reacted in the same way and we drew the conclusion that the Unit,:d
States government was not sincere. Such acts as the sending of
planes into another country's territories certainly do not lead ~Io
the establishment of peace, but on the contrary they lead to the
flaming of passions and to new aggravations in international
relations, and such a policy can, in the long run, can ultimately
lead even to the outbreak of war. So, it is - judge for yoursel-',
who is in favor of peace, who wants peaceful, friendly relations,
and who wants to exacerbate the situation and to place the world
on the brink of war? And that is what I would like to reply to
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you on that question - to you and to all who are listening to us
tonight. We want to - to let the public - to let the public be
the judge. We are certainly honest, and we keep our word when w
give our word, We are always true to what we say, and - but you
send your planes."
S- "Mr. Khrushchev, the U-2 incident was part of both of our countries
indulging various intelligence operations in their own security.
The best answer to the U-2 incident is that our President has
suspended all such flights. Let us not beat a dead horse tonight.
Is it not possible that relations between our two countries couli
immediately improve if you, as a statesman and head of your country,
would do two things. Bury the U-2 incident and stop inflaming it,
and number two to submit the RB-47 incident to the international
arbitration and decision requested by the United States."
K- "Well, you see, there can, in international relations, be all sorts
of aggravations, sometimes they can be very sharp indeed, but with
the passage of time such relations lose their rough edges and after
all, no matter how stormy is the ocean, in the final count, it
always goes back to within its shores and a storm is always foll)wed
by a calm. So evidentally will happen with the U-2 incident also.
But, I do think that you have an incorrect understanding on that
matter and I would like to follow that up with more comments."
S- "Is there an answer in that? Would you hold kindly that answer
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until we take this station break which gives our radio and television
stations around this country the opportunity to identify themsel-ves.
We will return in one minute and ten seconds."
STATION BREAK
K- "You got a couple of mattresses here or something?"
S- "Sure, I will get you a mattress. So that the public will under-
stand, because we have been on the air the last few minutes, I
said that we should both practice brevity - me in my questions
and Premier Khrushchev in his answers. I said or - will he stay
the night. He asked if there could be brought several mattresses
into the studio. May we have the answer to that question."
K- "Yes, but I have already said, if you provide the mattresses, I
am ready to be here all night."
S- "All right,. we will send for the mattresses. Will you please give
us Mr. Khrushchev's answer? The question was, it seems like a year
ago, that the U-2 incident was beating a dead horse - the best
answer to that is that our President and our government have
suspended those flights. Could Mr. Khrushchev make - not make
an affirmative and definite and important move toward better
relations between our two countries by first; burying the U-2
incident forever and not recitating it always and secondly; by
submitting the RB-1f7 incident to international arbitration as
requested by the American government."
-8-
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K- "Regarding your point that the United States President had
suspended these flights, that is certainly a good thing, but
such is not the case and I will dwell upon that a little. That
policy has not been suspended. The best thing to do, however,
would be - the best thing that could be done would be not to hav
sent any U-2 plane at all. You say that that is a dead horse,
but that is not so. After all, if your planes continue to fly
into our country, that - and ae continue to shoot them down,
and we shall do so - that can ultimately lead to the outbreak
of war. If you continue to violate the sovereignty of nations,
we will be compelled to undertake retaliatory measures against
such countries that indulge in such actions. And after all,
that certainly - that certainly augurs a military conflict.
Now, with regard to the suspension. Such flights were not
suspended, and that is shown by the fact that the U-2 flight
was followed by the flight of the RB-47 plane. So, that means
that the flights were certainly not suspended, but were repeated.
Now, we also have definite information to the effect that on
the eve before my departure to the - to New York to attend the
session of the General Assembly, the United States Intelligence
Agencies - whatever they are, had intended to send another plane
into the Soviet Union - a third plane therefore. But this
information reached us and I said to your Ambassador - to the
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United States Ambassador in Moscow, Mr. Thompson, I said to him,
'You are now preparing to send a third plane into the Soviet
Union, but we know of your plans, we know that you are going to
sent the plane - this time the plane will fly at an altitude of
25,000 meters, but we are prepared, and we shall - we shall shoo?
the plane down, but that certainly promises very bad results.'
So, the best thing - the best - the flight did not take place,
because evidentally the United States Government rescinded the
order to - of that flight. But, I certainly agree with what you
say on one point, that is let us not inflame passions - let us
refrain from any inflammation of passions. Now, regarding your
request that we agree to international arbitration with - with
regard to the RB-l+7, we shall, certainly not accept any such
arbitration because how can a - a plainly domestic question be
submitted to international arbitration? The best arbitration
possible would be not to send any planes at all. Let us indeed-
let us indeed be friends, let us live in peace, but let us not
violate the sovereignty of our countries."
S- "It is not a domestic issue. You claim that your territory was
violated by one of our planes, we deny such allegations. It is
a matter between two sovereign countries in dispute. The United
Nations is clearly a forum for arbitration of that dispute. Isn't
your refusal to submit the dispute - which is not a domestic
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dispute, but an international dispute, isn't that sympthomatic
of your hard cold war policy?"
K- "No, no."
CMr. Khrushchev answered, but Mr. Susskind made the following remark
to Mr. Khrushchev's answer before it was translated into English
"Is there progress in that answer?"
K- "Yes, all our replies contain progress."
S- "Not tonight!"
K- "Don't be in too much of a hurry, you don't know Russian and the
question hasn't been translated yet!"
K- "How can you say such a thing`? How can that be? After all, in
the U-2 incident, you also denied the fact of any violation, you
also said that you did not - did not ascend any plane into the
Soviet Union. And it was only after we provided - furnished the
material evidence and indeed the pilot who was shot down over
Sverdlovsk - only then did you admit the fact of such a violation,
and moreover, you not only admitted the fact but you said that
you - you said that you had the right to continue to undertake
such - to take such action wih regard to the Soviet Union. The
RB-47 was certainly shot down over Soviet territorial waters.
Nov. the best thing - the best policy to follow in such - in thi
case would be - and I would l:Lke to quote from - from a play by
the famous Russian playright Oriboyedov and he - he has a very
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well known play - in which he says, 'Could you not find some - could
you find - could you not find some road which would be much further
away from - for your walks.' So too, I would like to say here,
could you not find some route that would be further away from the
Soviet Union for flights of American planes. So we indeed do not
want to do anything at all to impair our relations and to - to
exacerbate our relations - we only want to have relations of
peace and friendship between our two countries."
S- "Exacerbation seems to be a favorite word--"
No response to that remark)
S- "I have a feeling that smile cloaks the will of implacable steel."
K- "Logic, logic - and the truth.."
S- "We have different languages."
K- "It is the same word, logic is the same word I would use too."
S- "How did you know about the third flight that he mentioned unless
a certain amount of spying has been going around?"
K- "With regard to what you say about the United Nations serving as
an arbitratory - as a forum for arbitration. We have certainly
seen a very good example of United States arbitration in the
Congo, but we are not the Congo, we are the Soviet Union, and
we ask that our sovereignty be respected. If it is not respectee_,
then we will certainly defend - uphold our sovereignty."
S- "I-think we have seen an excellent illustration of the United
Nations in action in the Congo."
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K- "I would not like to return to the discussion of that question,
because on - the question was fully treated in my statement before
the United Nations General Assembly. I, therefore, would not
like to return to the matter, and take up the time of our esteemed
listeners and viewers. Whoever wants to know my point of view
on that question can take - can read my speech which was published
in one American newspaper."
S- "May I ask you - and a question to which you can answer yes or
no. Will you, in the interest of immediate improvement of
American and Soviet relations, submit the BB-W( issue to arbit-
ration?"
K- "No . rr
S- "I taught you 'yes' earlier."
K- "Now - I will give that reply - I will gladly repeat that word
when you ask me the - the appropriate question, but may I say,
will you stop flying into the Soviet Union and provoking conflic-,s.
If that question were to be asked, I would say very good, and
you would, I trust, I say, yes."
S- "We have stopped. But, we can't agree on it tonight, I will bet."
K- "Let me shake your hand if you really have stopped such flights,
but let me also hope that the President agrees with you on that
matter."
[Mr. Khrushchev laughs
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K- "Yes, yes, yes."
S- "Yes, all right. In his speech before the United Nations Assemb-_y,
President Eisenhower said that he would like to see a universal
plebiscite in which every individual in the world would be given
the-opportunity freely and secretly to answer this question:
you want the right of self government?' In his speech before the=
Assembly, your colleague Mr. Gromyko of Poland approved of this
proposal saying he favored seeking the opinions of all peoples
on problems closely linked with their right to govern their own
country. Will you agree to a world-wide plebiscite to be
conducted as suggested by President Eisenhower, under United Nat:_ons
auspices, in which all peoples would be polled on their views on
self government. Could you translate as Mr. Khrushchev goes
along, would that be in order?"
K- "I don't know how that can be done, it seems that American technclogi
is not up to that yet. You come along to us, we will do it
immediately. We will give you an immediate translation."
fin reference to the question 7
K-
"A very good question."
S-
"Do we have a good answer?"
K-
"A very exact answer.
How old are you?"
S-
"Thirty-nine."
K-
"You are a young man - a young man."
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S- "I am aging."
K- "I have got sons that are older. And therefore I say that you
evidentally are - you do not have a very good knowledge of histor,i.
When the great October revolution took place, then a military
landing party was sent into our country by the United States,
Britain, France, Germany and Japan, and they imposed the civil
war upon us. And that was a nationwide plebiscite. And we
conducted that plebiscite - we asked the people for their opinion
throughout four years. The White Guard, the Czarist Generals,
were advancing on Tula and Moscow--"
S- "You know that gesture you have?"
K- "When that is required we will come to that, but it is not required
now."
K- "They occupied Siberia - they seized the Ukraine, they seized
Byelorussia - they were within 150 kilometers of Moscow, but the
Russian people - the Ukrainean people, the Byelorussian people
and all the people of the Soviet ..., took a broom and swept thee,
all into the ocean. The Americans, the British, the Japanese,
the Germans, all of them - the whole lot of them and, they said,
'It is socialism will be in our land.' And socialism is now
developing very well indeed. So, your President is too late in
raising such a question, the question was raised as far back as
in the time of President Wilson, by that President, and we voted
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and gave our reply. What else do you want now?"
S- "Mr. Khrushchev--"
K- "You should understand it directly. Then in 19+1 the Germans anc_
the Italians decided to verify that voting - that plebiscite."
S- "What year was that?"
INTERPRETER: "In 1941."
K- "But they were routed, they were thrown out of the country, the
country was purified of them, and socialism continued to exist ar:d
socialism is today successfully developing. If you really - if
you were to gain a true understanding of what socialism and
Communism means, why nobody could drag you away by. the ears from
socialism and Communism--"
S- "Oh yes they could!"
K- "--as if it were a favorite dish of yours."
S- "Listen--"
K- "And you then understand that is - that socialism and Como n.ism
is the most noble - is the most noble teaching about - in the
world."
S- "Is it my turn?"
K- "And if anybody tries to impose upon us another such referendum,
we will not evade it, we will not dodge such an attempt, we will
sweep it all away."
S- "We are not--"
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K- "Our land is sacred and sovereign and it is only the peoples of
the Soviet Union themselves that have the right to govern their
land and administer their affairs. Now, we recognize the same
right - we recognize that you certainly are entitled to that sane
right and do not interfere in. our affairs - live in any way you
like and - give us that right also, why should you try to poke
your nose into our government, so to say. Have you not enough
things to do in your own country?"
S- "You are baying at the moon. We know the history of the Russian
Revolution - we do not want a plebiscite in the Soviet Union,
we believe with all our might that there are many subjugated
peoples of Eastern Europe - we ask that a plebiscite be held,
not in your home country, not in the Soviet Union, but in many
of the countries of Eastern Europe who are now within the Soviet
orbit, to let those people announce freely and openly their
preference for self government. It is not necessary to cite
the October 1917 Revolution of the Communist Party in Russia.
We are talking about 1960 - in a free plebiscite without troops
of any country in the nations of Eastern Europe and Africa and
Asia."
K- "Do you think it is polite and in order to use such an expression
in a conversation as to bay at the moon? I am - after all, I air
old enough to be your father - we don't think that is too polite
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to use such expressions in conversation"
"I did not come here to bay at the moon, I am the Chairman of th?
Council of Ministers of the greatest state on earth, and if you
have invited me, then you will please respect me. If you don't
respect me, don't invite me. Politeness--"
S- "I am sorry--"
K- "You are - you are perhaps in the habit of using that sort of
language but we are not and we will not allow anybody to do so."
"Let the translation come on now."
"So you don't mean that a plebiscite should be held in the Sovie
Union."
S- "No, no, no, not in the Soviet Union. Oh no, throughout the worl.d."
K- "You mean the European Socialist countries."
S- "The European countries - Asia, Africa, Latin America. Can you
translate. Throughout the world except in our separate--"
K- "So I can reply to that that all these countries - all these couatrioas
have their own sovereign governments, and it is up to the peoples
of those countries, and it is up to their governments to decide
on that question. I - this is - this has nothing to do with me
whatsoever, so you evidentally wrongly addressed that question.
Regarding the fact - your statement - the fact that these nations
of Eastern Europe are captive - well, that I would not even wish
to reply to, because that truly - such an opinion is merely garb.ge
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which should be thrown out of your head, and you should under -
you should understand history in the way that it is being
written today by the nations, otherwise you will have a very
backward view on present day issues - on the issues of today."
S- "Does the phrase 'garbage thrown out of your head' - is that -
is that good form?"
K- "Well, there are - there is a correct - understand - there can be
a correct understanding and a wrong understanding and - such as .the
such is the fact and I don't think there is anything offensive in
that, but if you think that there is something offensive and you
want to take me up on that, well I can - certainly - well, I can,
in that case though I don't think there is anything offensive _n
it, I can sort of - well, take back that garbage if it is there."
S- "Oh, I think it would be charming."
[Pause for station identification7
S- ?"Mr. Khrushchev, at the United Nations Correspondent Lunch of
October 7th, a few days ago, you said, 'We shall uphold our
interests outside this international body - outside the United
Nations, by relying on our strength, and this could lead to
nothing else than a new exacerbation of the situation-.' My
question is, your proposal to act outside the UN, and your intention
to force a solution of the West Berlin issue could involve the
great danger, the horrible danger of the nuclear war. Do you truly
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believe that the issues of West Berlin, the German Peace Treaty,
and your proposal to reorganize the United Nations, are worth the
potential of a nuclear war in which both sides face extermination?"
K- "That is too involved. That is even frightening to face that
question at night. But I will do my best to reply. Firstly, I
certainly remember what I said at that press conference, and wha%
I said was that if the United Nations is constituted in the same
one-sided way as it is now constituted, and if it continues to
trail in the wake of the United States, then the United Nations
will lose will lose the respect and confidence of all countries;
and the nations then, seeking solutions to outstanding issues,
will not turn to the assistance of the United Nations, but will
rely on themselves to find solutions for these questions. We,
the Soviet Union, are of the opinion that if attempts are made ti
humiliate us and to subjugate us in the United Nations, we will --
we can certainly do without the United Nations, as we have done
for many ages in the past, and that means that if - and I stress
if - any state encroaches upon our sovereignty, we will uphold teat
sovereignty by our - with our - with all the strength we have at
our disposal. And if pursuing those attempts, any state threatens -
menaces us with a war, we will not be afraid and we will still
uphold our interests."
"Do you remember the basis of our criticism of the United Nation:,
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structure, after all, we were not seeking any privileges for
ourselves, we were merely seeking - we are merely seeking equal
conditions for the Socialist Countries - the countries tied up ii
United States lead military blocs, and neutralist countries. Is
there anything unjust in this? No, it is a perfectly just proposal,
and if it is - if this is not done, it is not only we, but the
other countries too, that will stop respecting the United Nations
and after that the outcome will be that the United Nations will
simply die, they will cease to exist."
"I have not yet replied to a -point - the point about Berlin. You
did ask that."
"I want to reply to that - I don't want to - I am an honest partner.
I will reply to everything, but have patience."
"Then, with regard to what you said, and that is that we want to
resolve the issue of Berlin outside the United Nations, but you
see the German question as such is outside the framework of the
United Nations. This question is a left over of the - of World
War II, and the question concerns the former competent countries,
and that is recognized - this fact is recognized by the United
States, by France, Britain and the Soviet Union - there are no
differences between us in this - on this point."
"With regard to Berlin, what is it. exactly - and the German protlem
what is it that we want. We want to have a peace treaty signed
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between the - with the two existing German states. Fifteen year j,
or soon it will be sixteen years have passed since the end of
World War II and there is still no peace treaty. Is that normal;'
It is - certainly it is not, and every man who wants to see a
normalization of the European situation, will agree that a peace
treaty is necessary, and that is what we desire."
S- "The question--"
K- "We think that a peace treaty should be drawn up between the twc
German states, and there is, after all, no other way out because
there are two German states in existence today and that will mean
that the question of the occupation regime in West Berlin will
also be resolved. We understand that West Berlin has its own
system of government, and this is the capitalist system. We have
no desire to interfere in the life of the population of West
Berlin, and let them live - let them live under capitalism, let
them have their own self-government, and let them maintain contacts
with all countries that they desire to have contacts with, but the
occupation regime should - must certainly be eliminated. What
is it in effect that we are proposing? We are proposing to take
steps to do away with the remnants - with the vestiges of World
War II which threaten the - which - which contained a threat of
the outbreak of the third - a third world war. When you say that
this might - that this could involve - this could involve the
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great danger of a nuclear war, can you be - can you mean that you
would be willing to - to start such a war? I certainly believe
that the American - the people of the United States are wiser than
to do that, but even if a threat of war against us is advanced, we
will still go ahead and negotiate and sign a peace treaty. I
simply cannot believe that the people of the United States would
be willing to start a war because of the signing of such a peace
treaty, that is certainly a wild - an absolutely wild idea. We
we want to - to clear the way - we want to - to cast out the glowing
embers that might burst - that might burst into flames again. We
want to do so in order to insure peaceful and friendly relations
with the German people, with the American people, the British
people and the French people, with all the peoples of the world.
If you want - if you want to live under capitalism, that is
certainly your own business and you are perfectly free to do so,
but if we want to live under Communism that also is our business,
and no one should interfere in our desires. I really think that
you have an incorrect understanding of our position on that issue.
When you come to a correct understanding, I am sure that you will
welcome our position because you will understand - you will then
realize that this is the only - this is the sole correct and
reasonable position to take."
S- "America and her Western Allies will never start a war, I am
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positive. My question related to whether the issue of West Berl.--n
and German peace treaty has got to be settled by negotiation and
not by threat or the use of force, or anything that would blow
both parts of the world up."
K- "Now, certainly those are words which I like very much and I think
that that is very reasonable. We are - we do not intend to advance
any threats of any kind, we are trying to prove - and our only
desire is that the United States, Britain and France should unde-'-
stand - and other nations, should understand the necessity of a
peace treaty, and that all these countries should get together
to sign a peace treaty, and thereby to do away with the vestiges
of the Second World War. We are not - we do not want to start a
war, we want to establish good friendly relations between all
countries, we want to establish friendly relations with the American
people and we want to establish friendly relations with the American
government, too."
S- "May I ask you this? Is not your charge, Mr. Khrushchev, that t:ie
United States controls a majority in the United Nations, really -n
insult to the free and independent nations that compose its member-
ship. As a matter of record, most of the free nations have voter
differently from one another and the United States on many occasions,
but on the other hand, there is no recorded moment when the Soviet
Bloc of eight nations have ever voted differently from the Soviet
Union."
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K- "Evidentally you do not - you are not well enough informed, but L
would like to assure you that many representatives of many count'-ies
that vote for the proposals of the United States, later come to -is
and clarify their position, and they say that with - we are whol
heartedly with you, but due to our position we cannot vote contrary
to the United States. And that is a fact.'"
S- "But they are free and independent nations who constitute the member-
ship of the United Nations. They are not under some magic or fear
influence of the United States. They are voting their separate
consciences, are they not?"
K- "Truly those words of yours are words worthy of respect, but whe-i
you learn of the true state of affairs, when you gain a deeper iicit
into the machinery of the United Nations, I am sure you will ch&iige
your opinion. There is a tremendous pressure being exerted both
politically, economically and otherwise of - but soon an end will
come to all this, and all the nations will rid themselves of thi:;
sort of pressure on the part of the United States, and the Unites -
there will come a time when tae United States will be in a minori.ty
in the United Nations."
Pause for station identification -7
S- "Mr. Khrushchev, you said in reply to another question of the United
Nations Correspondents - the question was, 'What do you feel you
have accomplished here, inside and outside the United Nations, si-nce
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you have been here?' You said., 'We have sewn good seeds of peace
and friendship. We have exposed lies and sewn the seeds of truth:,
and no amount of effort will succeed in killing this truth.' Isr't
it really a fact that the net of what you have done, since you heve
been here, is that you have attempted to cripple and impede the
United Nations by urging the removal of Mr. Hammarskjold and the
substitution of a three man secretariat, which would hemstring
the United Nations; you have attempted to move its headquarters
out of New York; you have attempted to capture an important bloc
of neutral votes and isolate the United States and her allies.
You have labeled the Western powers as colonialists and imperial4sts
in an impassioned speech. You have also attempted to resell your
total disarmament plan without any concern for our very deep and
legitimate fear about inspections and controls. Does this add up--"
[Mr. Khrushchev interrputed Mr. Susskind (speaking in English) at th__s
point. Mr. Susskind's question had not been translated to Mr. Khru4;hchev
in Russian at this time)
K- "You yourself said we should be brief, but you have outlined a whole
program there - what am I to cio, reply until six o'clock in the
morning?"
S- "No. All I ask is that these activities--"
K- "I see that you are trying to follow the procedure that was adopted
with regard to Mikoyan - that is to - is to outline all your vie,,s
without giving me an opportunity to reply. And you want to - I
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want to hear the question, but you want to outline the whole program."
S- "Have your activities at the United Nations, since you arrived, ado
they add up to sewing the seeds of peace and friendship and the
seeds of truth?"
K- "That is the only reason why I came. There - I have no other a:bri
in life as to - other than to serve my people, to serve the truti,
to serve the interests of the ;corking people - the workers, the
peasants and the intellectuals of my country. I would like to
express my appreciation for the - for this opportunity accorded
to me to meet with the population of New York, with the population
of the United States. You have put questions to me and I have
replied to them and I have endeavored to bring about a correct
understanding of our policy and of our desires. Our country -
our people and our Soviet government want only peace and friend-
ship with all other nations. We want to - we want to have this -
the same attitude - to see the same attitude on the part of
America and the American government, and I trust that we will
bring about such a situation when friendship will come into being;
between our two countries, because friendship certainly leads to -
friendship is certainly conducive to the development of economy
and culture - and culture whereas war can only lead to disaster.
we are in favor of peaceful and friendly relations with all
nations. I would like to thank you all, ladies and gentlemen,
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it is, the hour is getting late and there is work to be done
tomorrow, I would like once again to thank you all and to ask -
to urge all of you to do your utmost to bring about an improve-
ment in relations between our countries. For our part, I would
like to say that the Soviet Union is an exceedingly rich country,
we have everything that we need to develop our economy to insure
prosperity for our country. And we are doing our best to raise
the living standards of our population. We have - we have no -
there is nothing that we desire to seize in any other countries,
because we ourselves are provided with everything that we need.
We would like to extend a hand of friendship - a hand of peace to
the American people, and we wish that the American people would
reciprocate that desire on our part. I would like once again to
say thank you - dear ladies - thank you ladies and gentlemen, to
wish you goodnight and to wish that there should never be any
wars on our planet. Long live friendship between the peoples of
the Soviet Union and of the United States of America."
S- "Would you ask Mr. Khrushchev when he returns to the Soviet Union?"
K- "I am returning to the Soviet Union on Thursday late Thursday
evening. And I would like to ask all those that would like to
see, with their own eyes, how we live in the Soviet Union, I wou. d
like to ask them all to come to our country - we are - are noted
for our hospitality, and you will see this for yourselves if you
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come. And I invite you to come."
S- "We are separated by more than language. I am convinced tonight
that we - words do not mean the same things in our respective
languages, nor is the logic or the thinking easy to fuse. Your
answers to so many of the questions, Mr. Khrushchev, I submit
respectfully, did not deal specifically with the issues. I had
hoped tonight that we could uncover alot more new information
that would give us hope for peace tomorrow."
K- "In my - in replying, I attempted to dispell the wrong - the
misconceptions you have with :regard to the policy of the Soviet
government - with regard to the policy of the Soviet Union, and
I am sure that we will achieve understanding despite the difference
in the language - in the languages, if we agree not to interfere
in the internal affairs of one another. Let each nation decide
on the political and social structure to be established in the -
in every country, and let that be an internal matter for that
country to decide. If that rule is strictly adhered to, then
there will be no questions that will separate us, and prevent
us from establishing friendship among our two countries, and the
friendship between us - between our two countries, between our
two peoples."
S- "Those are splendid words. Will you live up to them?"
K- "We always live up to our words. And as regards questions of
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S-
war or peace, we shall never start a war, we do not need a war."
"Categorically you will never start a war."
K-
"Categorically we shall - categorically we shall never start a wer,
S-
so you can sleep in peace. We want not a war but peace between ..a."
"I feel better about that. Before you strangle yourself, we have
to remove this all that would have to happen is that you would--"
K-
S-
"Thank you. I hope you are not offended."
"I wish we had had more responsive answers.
Goodbye."
K-
S-
K-
"I did reply--"
"But look, the--"
"--you said, 'What do I want, peace or war?'
I say peace. You
say do I want enmity or friendship? I say friendship. And that
is the main thing."
S- "Will you now make deed and words square with doctrine and preaciimen
K- "Who is it that has instilled in you such a wrong understanding nnf
our policy?"
S- "The facts. History, observation and very close analysis."
K- "But that, truly if you - if you hold to your words, that is truly
a very - that understanding -- is to prosper. They can only hear
what you are saying. See how astute you Americans are."
S- "No, no - who could not hear you, your projection is incredible.
I would like to ask you whether some of your procural temperamen-i,
the humor and the rage while here in New York - is that the true
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Premier Khrushchev personality or is that something of an acting job?
K- "I could reply to that that we - to good things we reply by good
things. Even an animal - if you pat it, it will understand that
good attitude on your part, but if you try to drag it by the tai_
or something, then it too will turn on you. If you come to us
with friendship, we will open up our hearts. If you send a U-2
plane, we will shoot it down."
S- "Oh, don't bring that up again! Every time we pat you, you bite us."
K- "It is you who are biting us! The sending of a U-2, that means
biting."
S- "We are not sending any U-2's, that is history, that is over. W,
seek peace and friendship with honor."
K- "All right, let's end it, do away with it. After all, even after
wars a peace is declared and we have not been fighting. We were
allies in the last war, and we want to continue being friends with
you. We don't ask to get anything from you, we only want friend-
S-
ship and peace."
"We cannot fight, negotiation must be the way, however painful,
K-
however predicated."
"We are in favor of that. We are in favor of negotiations, in favor
of peace and friendship. Come, to the Soviet Union, look at us,
look at the people, look at the country, and you will see what a
wonderful peace-loving people they are. Many Americans have been,
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and I read their reports and their impressions, and it is only
very few of them that distort the actual situation, but the
majority, and I am happy to say this, try by reporting on their
impressions to emenderate relations and to bring about friends
between our people. What do I want with war, I have so many
grandchildren - I have - I even have a great-grandchild - a great-
granddaughter."
S- "But, all of your words since you arrived at the United Nations
General Assembly - all of your statements have been of an agitatng
nature - calculated to intensify the cold war, and drive a deeper
wedge between us. I am not ... time. Don't call us colonial
imperialistic warmongers - this is not first a fact, and secondly'
not calculated to make life possible between us."
K- "Are you against the colonial system?"
S- "Totally, and we do not--"
K- "Lets sign that then, we have submitted a declaration on that an-+ -
to have the colonial system eliminated. Lets sigh that declarat-.on
and--l'
S- "Since World War II, 1945, some thirty-five nations have been freed,
voluntarily by the Western powers. Seventeen nations--"
K- "But just - but there still exists colonies, don't there? There
still are people languishing under colonialism, let us free them."
S- "Would you grant immediate freedom to any colony despite its degree
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of illiteracy, poverty, technical and administrative incompetence -
despite its total unpreparedness for freedom and responsibility?"
K- "Yes, we are in favor of completely - complete freedom of every
nation. In our constitution it is - and we have fifteen union
republics in the Soviet Union; and it is inscribed in the con-
stitution of our country that any one of these republics can secede
from the union if it so desires. If the Ukraine wants to secede.
it can do so, Byelorussia, Georgia, Armenia - anyone of the
republics can secede."
S- "I want to ask you this question. When you talked to Mr. Macmillan,
you insisted on the plenary special session of the United Nation;:;
to be held somewhere in Europe - at which 99 nations would discuss
the issue of disarmament. When a three member nation conference on
nuclear suspension of testing could not agree, when a ten member
nation conference could not agree on disarmament, how could a 99
nation conference accomplish anything except another rampaging
forum for propaganda?"
K- "My dear sir, even if two people come together, if they don't W&-it
to come to terms, they won't."
S "99 is a ..."
K- "I can say on behalf of the Soviet Union that we are ready immediately
to sign an agreement to - to start total disarmament and to Best
all the weapons of war, and if we are then - and if such an agree-
ment is signed, we are ready to accept any conditions for inspection
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and control that the Western powers may care to submit. After all,
we have submitted our copy proposals for disarmament while the
Western powers have not done so - and President Eisenhower has,
in fact, been speaking not of disarmament, not of control over
disarmament, but of control over armaments. So we are not only
speaking in different languages, we are also speaking of different
things."
S- "The peoples of the world are fearful of the climate that exists
throughout the world, they insist on the Western side that there
be adequate inspections and control leading to disarmament, why
is that totally unacceptable to you."
K- "We are in favor of control. We are in favor of control and
inspection. But what is there to control? If there is no dis-
armament, there cannot be any control. Do you want to control
the work of our government - we can do that far better ourselves."
S- "We want to inspect each other's stockpiles of nuclear weapons,
the launching sites, so that we know what exists and what will
be abandoned."
K- "We don't want to have anything left, we want to destroy every-
thing. Why should anything be left. Everything should be
destroyed so that there should be no war. And you want to just
destroy something and then leave a part of it."
S- "No, no. "
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K- "Why?"
S- "The resumption of disarmament before controls is that the absolute
and trust and faith on both sides exist - this is simply not true.
We have lived through a terrible time of tension and conflict, we
therefore must first inspect - agree upon controls, and then
commence disarmament."
K- "It is difficult for us to speak perhaps because, I as being the
Prime Minister - being a Prime Minister and more fully conscious
of the problems of disarmament and of the complexity of the
problem of disarmament than you are and what we say is, let us
achieve, let us bring about disarmament, let us then follow that
up with control, let us not have first inspection without dis-
armament, our proposals on disarmament certainly lead to peace."
S- "A final thing, when - a final thing. When two philosophies are
in absolute stalemate, with each other, on so many issues, there
must be in - on the part of both sides, the desire to negotiate
and accomplish some constructive results, since both sides agree
that war in unthinkable."
K- "That is correct."
S- "Do you agree that negotiation is the only way and that you are
going to pursue that course?"
K- "That is right, I agree. Our philosophies - your capitalist
philosophies and ours - the Communist philosophy, is the thing
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that must belong to ourselves, and we will reach no understanding
on that point, and why should we. You remain with your own, we
will remain with our own."
S- "We must and will coexist in a world of peace."
K- "That is right."
S- "Even though colleagues of yours are advocating a more militaristic
approach."
K- "Don't try to detract me, I am an experienced man and I won't submit
to that. Let me reply to your question. We are speaking of the
issue of peace. You develop your own economy and take care of
your state in any way you see fit - on the capitalist basis. We
will develop along Communist - socialist lines. We will not
interfere in your affairs, but don't you interfere in ours."
S- "And the new countries? Neither of us will interfere in their
affairs."
K- "No, no one should interfere. Each country should choose the
system it wants to have for itself."
S- "Would you Join with us on an arms embargo with respect to the
new countries, neither of us to ship arms of any description."
K- "We proposed that a long time ago. We proposed an agreement that
no nation, that no state should sell any other country arms.
did not accept that."
S- "But a real arms race is on now with the new countries of Africa,
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particularly, and we should--"
K- "Then lets sign such an agreement. Lets do that - we are ready to
do something - we want peace and not war, and we will do everything
in our power to consolidate peace."
S- "With respect to the new countries, that would include armaments
as well as military personnel and technicians and so forth?"
K- "That would include all that, but you also would have to desist
from such action."
S- "Yes, I am-"
K- "Britain and France - none of the - no state should do that. Whey
give them arms, it is better to give them bread, to give machinfs,
and they don't need arms, they wouldn't even take it if nobody
interfered in their internal affairs."
S- "Are you prepared to go to a new summit with our new President?"
K- "I am not only prepared to do so, but I believe that we will meet."
S- "Will that summit have a preparation at a lower level which would
accomplish alot of progress before the statesmen sat down?"
K- "We are ready to undertake any reasonable action that would lead
to the consolidation of peace and to the - would lead to the
establishment of closer, more peaceful and friendly relations.
Elect your President, whoever you may elect, that is an internal
matter for you to decide, and then let us bring about such results,
such agreements that would be conducive to the establishment of
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peace and friendship among all the nations."
S- "Good night, Mr. Khrushchev."
K- "Thank you."
S- "Thank you very much."
K- "You are not offended at me?"
S- "No, I am not offended at you, mystified is the word, and--"
K "Well, goodbye, and thank you."
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