DEBRIEFING OF FRANCIS GARY POWERS

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP80B01676R002200030003-4
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: T
• Document Page Count: 32
• Document Creation Date: December 14, 2016
• Document Release Date: December 30, 2002
• Sequence Number: 3
• Publication Date: February 13, 1962
• Content Type: MIN

25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003(01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
Tape:
Date:
Time:
Present:
Powers:
DEBRIEFING OF FRANCIS GARY POWERS
#2
13 February 1962
16:26 Hours
Frank, breaking off for a moment we had at the end of the
previous tape we had you on the ground and ah people were
helping you out of your parachute and out of your helmet.
Lets break off at that point for a moment and, and raise
this question. Did you then or did you subsequently gain
any information as to the approximate location where you
hit the ground?
The only thing that I could see for sure is I estimated oh,
I'd say, 25 miles or more south almost directly south I
think of Sverdlosk, maybe a little to the east. But on the
south of that city. If I had a map that had more detail
maybe I could pick it out because there was a collective
farm. And there was ah several miles away from that
TOP SECRET
25X1 Approved For Release 2003(01/29 . CIATDP80601676R002200030003-4
1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-R P80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
place they ah took me to a ah larger village. But pretty
primitive place, but ah much larger than the one I came
down here and kept me there for awhile, and maybe I can
find it on the map, ah it would show.
Now how about the plane, does that lay on the same area
or ah
Powers: Ah, never saw any part of the plane except ah one piece
floating down as I came down by parachute. I don't know
for it hit from my relative position.
Could you say for certain that the plane disintegrated in
the air - both wings came off?
I will say for certain this is what it seemed like to me.
First the tail came off, because this particular airplane
ah, requires an altitude ah, nose-up trim. Aid ah, if the -
you should loose the tail it would nose over forward because
the nose wants to drop. And that's what it did. The nose
dropped, and I can only assume that the wings came off
because the airplane couldn't possibly have spun as fast
as it did with the wings on. But I don't know whcther they
came off immediately - I don't even know how long all this
Powers:
Approved For Release 2003T P80601676R002200030003-4
25X1
2 25X1
25X1
)1/29 : CIA-RD
Approved For Release 2003/
Powers:
TOP SECRET
P80601676R002200030003-4 25X1
took, but it seemed pretty ?fast. Nose went down and ah,
I could feel something happening but I didn't know what
was happening, but I know the tail was off at this time.
Cause I could' never have gotten in that position ah, with
the tail in tact, and the control cables were not connected
because
Have you an estimate of how long it took you to get down
from the time of the orange flash, from the time that you
got to the ground?
I have no idea of time. I know that ah, I was going pretty
fast ah, in that airplane because that altimeter was going
around very fast. I seemed to be thinking ah fairly clearly
here at this time, but I had for awhile there a fixed idea
of - _ _ on the ejection seat. Later on, I stopped to
think and then started to try and climb out which I did but
it - - it came down ah fast. That's all I can say. The time
I - I - I couldn't - I have no idea.
Then from the time of the orange flash ah your - your plane
was out of control and as far as you were concerned ah - ah
there was no forward progress of the plane there ah - ah
Approved For Release 20037 P80601676R002200030003-4
3
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 20034)1/29 : CIA-RDP801301676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
that is operational flight?
Powers: Lets see. I heard or felt something - nothing loud nothing
ah violent, but some sort of a sensation. I - - I can't
say that - that I heard it and I can't say that it . . . I only
felt . . . just seemed like everything just stopped. And
looked up immediately and there was the orange flash.
And while I was had looked up and saw this orange flash
the right wing started ah - well it started to turn to the
right. I turned the wheel to the left and the right wing
came up. This well seconds maybe from what I set that
amount of time and then the nose started going down, and
I pulled back on the stick. And no, it was just loose. So
no . . . no connection to the control services and ah nose
going down faster. I mean it started sort of slow and then
this went over. And when it got - and iit almost ah, the nose
ah pointing directly to the earth ah, something started hap-
pening to the airplane. I . . . I can't say that the wings
came up then, but I don't see how they could stayed on there.
And I assumed that that is where they came off, and if this
involvement that was there, I don't know what they are, but
it ended up as I said before ah, with the nose pointing toward
Approved For Release 200
P80601 676R002200030003-4
4
25X1
)101/29 : CIA-RD
25X1
Approved For Release 2003
Interr:
TOP SECRET
P80601676R002200030003-4
the sky , not straight up, but at an angle of 45 degrees
or so I would think. All I could see looking up of the
canopy sitting there, was sky and going round - ah and
it continued doing that until I got out of the airplane, and
when I did get out, I was thrown right over the nose.
The G-forces just pushed me - right on I went right directly
over the nose of the airplane. And it just seemed like I
was floating. Pd never been in a parachute before.
Now lets go back into into the air and discuss the matter
of altitudes of your flight. (ah, just one minute)
By any chance did you look at your watch?
Powers: Ah, lets see. I had the times that I turned on this ah. Well
see we - you know how our maps are put up I think with ah,
turning points and I had recorded that, and I did know that
time - one time but I can't remember. I estimated one or
two minutes after that. But I can't, I can't recall what it
was.
25X1
If we found a duplicate map, or could reconstruct a dup-
licate map, could we come pretty accurate on the time?
Powers:
We could come within . . . . well now I don't know
how
25X1
5
TOP SECRE
25X1
Approved
For Release 2091U1/29 : LAA-DP80B01676R002200030003-4
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
t
Approved For Release 2003 1/29 : CIA-R 80601676R002200030003-4
OP SECRET
Powers:
Powers:
accurate it would be but it - I'd say within a half an hour
or less. I'm sure less than a half hour - much maybe even
less than fifteen minutes. I can't remember how much I
was ah, ahead of schedule or behind schedule or - or right
on schedule at these places. But the navigation had gone
along fairly good for I was pretty close to ah - what my -
ah ah - maps and flight planning ah told me had to be at
that time. So it, its not many many minutes either side
of what following the the flight plan would effect it.
Alright. Lets discuss altitudes ah, to the best of your
recollections Frank.
Starting at the beginning of the flight?
Well yeah, as to what your programmed altitudes were and
ah, what your recollections were.
Now briefing on that was to climb according to ah, the
regular schedule we had to carry in the climb which I did,
and ah, climb to 70, 000 feet - level - stay at 70, 000 feet
the entire flight. But the airplane will not with a full fuel
load would not climb to ah, 70, 000 feet immediately. It
takes normal a half hour or so, or I don't know exactly how
Approved For Release 2003
DP801301676R002200030003-4
6
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/)1/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4 25X1
TOP SECRET
Powers:
Powers:
much time - I can't recall. But I was at 70, 000 feet I think
shortly after crossing the Russian border. I don't remember
exactly where I got the ah, altitude, but I remained at 70
the entire flight until this happened.
And you would say then that you were at 70, 000 on this when
this accutrred?
When ah, thats what my altimeter ah, showed and the
altimeter was set on a - a sea level ah, well ah
I even forgot the term. But 29. 92 ah ah was set in my
altimeters at sea level pressure.
Barometric pressure time?
Yes, ah huh. And it was indicating 70, 000 feet. So any
error that it might have had would be the only.
Well now, was that the ceilingof the? of the plane?
Powers: No, No. I could have possibly got up to , when the plane
was hit, I say hit when the accident happened the explosion
accurred ah, I could possibly get it up
because I had retarded the power so I could remain at
70, 000 as instructed to.
Approved For Release 2003
P80601 676R002200030003-4
7
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/C1/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
Powers:
Powers:
Powers:
There was no danger of any - any ah ah - damage or over
temp or anything by reading
No, no that would be impossible because I had already for
for a long time had been pulling back the power so that as
the fuel burned out I could remain at 70, 000.
What was the ultimate ah ceiling of the plane and and with ah
minimum fuel oil?
Minimum fuel I could have gotten up to approximately -
minimum fuel
load I had at the time, I'd say
time. Maybe
But with the
At that
but somewhere in between those
two was my estimate then.
Whats your best estimate of what actually happened ah?
Well after I had seen those ah condensation trails that I
mentioned earlier I kept ah through my drift sight scanning
all around looking for those things. And those are the only
two I saw. I saw nothing - I don't know what a rocket would
look like that was ah being launched if one was launched at
me. Ah but I saw no no smoke no nothing like that no trails
being counted. But ah this happened shortly after making a
Approved For Release 200
DP80601676R002200030003-4
8
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
turn, and the turn took ah a minute or two I don't know how
long. And during that turn I wasn't scanning the sky. So
maybe something could have happened during that time I
don't know. And I wouldn't have seen it. But after ah
rolling out on course and lining up on my flight line I didn't
I didn't scan back behind me look around, I was busy
getting lined up so that I would be right where they wanted
me to be on on on this particular flight. They this is - this
is. Well are you familiar with the way the maps are drawn
up oh. The red lines meant that this was a stay as close as
course as possible because this was imporant. Well this
was a red line. And I wanted to stay on course. So I didn't
look around, but spent my time lining up and then recording
the time and so forth. But ah I reached this point and ah
I had to record altitude, oxygen, ah ah temper ah EQT
ah engine readings and stuff like that. And thats what I
was doing when the explosion. Now I feel myself that the
explosion was external of the aircraft. I don't know what
ah - ah I've never been in a aircraft that has had an internal
explosion. But I feel that ah ah it would definately be ah -
Approved For Release 200
DP80601676R002200030003-4
25X1
Approved For Release 200311j1/29 : CIA-R1IP80601676R002200030003-4 25X1
TOP SECRET
Powers:
the pilot would definately feel something violent I don't
know. It took a metal he'd feel some sort of vibrations
or something. And there was nothing like this. I seem
to maybe got a little boost like a little push from behind.
And there was another thing that I noticed when ah they
took me to review the wreckage of the airplane, I paid
particular attention to or I tried to the paint on the tail
section. And I could see no signs of ah of ah ah where it
had been hot or burned. And I was thinking that if the
tail came off by itself and maybe made could . . . it
could have made a flash in the sky, maybe burning or
something, it would have ah shown ah signs of being very
hot as it came out over the tail pipes and so forth. But
there was none of this. I noticed also when I reviewed the
wreckage that there were ah several holes in the wings.
I don't know where they could have been from fragments
or something or when it hit the ground.
Holes allthe wa?cr through-the wings or ah?
Well I only saw I think one side of the wings. And through
the aluminum. Ah through one edge anyway and I can't rem-
Approved For Release 2003/
P80601676R002200030003-4
10
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003i01129 : CIA-RpP80B01676R002200030003-4 25X1
TOP SECRET
ember whether they was all through or not. They had it in
this building in this park in Moscow. But I am almost 100%
convinced that it was an external explosion. That's - I don't
know how it got there or anything else. But there was one
other thing that ah might be important. After these people
had gotten well lets see, you wanted to talk about the altitude
ah ? ? ?
Well go ahead and talk about it.
Powers: After these people had ah helped me get out of this ah para-
chute and helmet and took my ah gun, knife and so forth,
ah this one arm seemed to more or less take charge, all
of them in civilian clothes - most of them fairly young.
Some of them I'd say the group man who took me to this ah
center were all ah between twenty-five and say forty -
forty-five years of age. But one of them took charge, or
seemed to and he asked me about science if there were two
of us. And I said no there is only one. And he pointed up
and I looked up and I think there was another parachute
coming down. But it was high. I don't know how long it
took me to get through this ah ah - to get out of that ah
TOP SECRET
Approved For Release 2003/11/29 . CIA-RIP80B01676R002200030003-4
11
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/41/29 : CIA-RD 80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
chute and get the helmet off - it didn't take very long just a
few minutes. But this was a way up there ah and I'd almost
swear that it was a parachute. Now I have no idea what it
could be because there was no other parachute - couldn't
be from my airplane. My thoughts were then later that ah
maybe it was ah a rocket that they had launched. Now this
was just my thinking trying to explain that . And they were
had a chute that opened to to let the burn-out stage, or what-
ever it is down. But ah thats just something that entered
my mind I have no idea what it was. But I'm almost positive
it was a parachute. They loaded me in a car and took me
away and I never did see what what it was.
But you can say with certainty that there was - that you didn't
come down in stages, you didn't come down say 10, 000 feet or
fell off or . . . .
Powers: No, I came straight down, straight down. This is something
that ah was mentioned to me before and ah I don't understand
ah ah I think
mentioned it ah on the way over. And
I cannot understand this thing he said about ah the airplane
descending this way and this way and this way because it
Approved For Release 2003/
P801301676R002200030003-4
25X1
12 25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/41/29 : CIA-REIP801301676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
Powers:
Powers:
wasn't my airplane that did it. At 70, 000 feet the airplane
fell apart and came straight down as far as I know. I don't
know what kind of a shine it cut through the sky as it was
falling, but it seemed to me straight down.
Now just - just so we will have the record complete on this
sound, how can you say for certain that you were at 70, 000
feet? What is your recollection of your actual knowledge
of that?
Well that was my assigned altitude and I was staying on that
and after rolling out - see I had to record these things ah
on these flight lines so that they will know the altitude. And
I was doing this when the explosion occurred and I was on
altitude on the flight line when everything was finished.
In other words, this the altimeter was said
The altimeter said it was that. And it it wasn't, ah, I don't
know how much of air but there's not much air in the altimeter
there. So depending on the ah ah atmospheric pressure I was
close to 70, 000 feet. But my altimeter said 70, 000.
Now of course I have access to the same information I think
that
was making reference to. And ah there is ah
Approved For Release 2003Z
P80601 676R002200030003-4
13
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/b1/29 : CIA-14P80B01676R002200030003-4 25X1
TOP SECRET
some information to indicate ah that you may have been in
the vicinity of 69 or 70, 000 and then for some reason unex-
plained went to ah close to
Powers: No I didn't climb.
After which you came down to approximately 60, 000.
Powers: Nope.
And then with a fast decent, about 3500 feet a minute, came
down to 37 000 and leveled off. There was absolutely none
of that at all.
Powers: It, it came straight down. There was no leveling or nothing.
It disintegrated at that altitude or very shortly under I don't
know. Ah I don't know how far ah when the nose pointed down
how far it went down before the wings came off. But it
couldn't have gone far. And it came down.
When you saw the plane in Gorki Park the tail section was
seperated from the fuselage?
Powers: And it was in good condition. Ah the tail section was by
itself - ah they had the engine I think by itself - and there
were pieces scattered all around - the two wings were each
left
by themselves - ah there wasn't much/of ah or that I couldn't
TOP SECRET
Approved For Release 2003/11/29 : CIA-780B01676R002200030003-4
14
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/)1/29 : CIA-R3P80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
see anything left of the front section of the airplane. The
ah cockpit and the equipment. They had part of the canopy
part of the ah front of the ah canopy and and the canopy
that I ah ejected off so that I could climb out to head that -
it was broken. But ah it was pretty much smashed up -
that section.
Well new, is going to go into this with you
in much more technical detail than we are qualified to do
probably tomorrow afternoon or something like that. But,
but ah just for our information here can you relate this this
crack-up this this disintegration of the plane ah with a
possible flame out of the engine. Was there a flame out
immediately coincident to this or were you aware of that
or is the question at all pertinent?
Powers: I can't remember exactly. But I can remember seeing
sometime that the rpm were going down. But I don't know
when this was or or anything else. But I could see ah that
the engine was floating down. I don't know before it dis-
integrated - while it was disintegrating - or even while I
was following. I don't know.
Approved For Release 2003
P80601 676R002200030003-4
15
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/
)1/29 : CIA-R
TOP SECRET
P80601676R002200030003-4 25X1
Interr: At the moment of the flash now, this orange flash, this thing
was running in order and as far as your controls were concerned
it was on schedule the whole flight routine and evbrything was
routine and normal.
Powers: Everything, Everything was perfect right then . . . .
Interr: As programmed you were believing . . ? ?
Powers:
Powers:
Powers:
The only thing was that I was flying manual and not on auto
but that's the only thing. And it was flying smooth and easy
very smooth.
Could a malfunction of the auto-pilot have - cause - ah be ah
approximate or immediate cause of an internal explosion?
As far as I know, no. Besides that the auto-pilot was cut off
and had been cut off for several minutes. I don't know
exactly how long , but 10 to 15, 20 minutes. Ah and I'd been
flying the plane.
Now as to the sighting of the destructor mechanism and your
inability to do so, were you aware of what the destructor
mechanism on the plane was?
Well only what I was told.
What was your understanding?
TOP SECRET
Approved For Release 2003/11/29 . CIA-R P80601676R002200030003-4
16
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003101/29 : CIA-RDP801301676R002200030003-4 25X1
TOP SECRET
Powers: It had a ah delay of 70 seconds - this particular airplane.
I'm almost positive it was 70 seconds because we usually
had the delay written on it. There were two switches.
An "R" and I think the other was labeled destruct. And
it could be re-cycled by turning it off if ah, if ah you ah
you didn't want to do it any particular time by just flipping
the switches back down - giving it a little time it would
re-cycle itself and you could start all over again. But
ah, I didn't want to to -1 started to do it immediately.
That was the first thought that came into my mind - des-
truct it. I reached up for it - I even had my hand on the
switch and I thought, well I better see if I can get out.
So I didn't flip the switch. And then I tried to work with
this ejection seat and get back into a position where I
could eject myself. And I couldn't do that and it's as I
said before from then on.
Well now, let me get this clear. Am I, am I - were the
two manual operations here, one was, one was an arm to
arm the destructor mechanism and the other one was to
17
Approved For Release 2003A P80601676R002200030003-4
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003(01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
Powers:
Powers:
TOP SECRET
flip the switch to start the 70 second cycle?
Yes. One of them you could flip and you could leave it
flipped all the time. I think that was - that was the arm
switch. And I don't know exactly how the mechanism
worked - it was explained but I can't remember exactly
how it worked. But you could arm it and everything was
alright. But 70 seconds after getting the I think it was
labeled destruct switch it was supposed to explode. They
varied in different airplanes the times of the ah, ah, the
times that laid between the flipping of the switch and the ah
explosion.
And what was the purpose of that destructor mechanism
to destroy the equipment or the plane itself?
The equipment. Well I don't know how much of the plane it
would destroy, but ah my understanding was the equipment
it was to destroy. And in destroying that it would of course
destroy some of the airplane too. And the ah explosive it-
self is located in the equipment bay. Back behind the pilot
ah I don't know how far
You had some briefing on that?
Approved For Release 2003J P80601676R002200030003-4
18 25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
Powers:
Powers:
Powers:
TOP SECRET
Yes ah, we had gone over that ah in meetings before this.
But it's been so long now thatIcan't remember just how
this thing worked. But here is something that ah they told
me during the investigation of this - ah there in Moscow
and they were lying to me, and I knew were lying to me but
ah they told me that ah this was hooked up so that when I
pulled the ejection seat that it would destroy the airplane
and me too. Well later on this is ah they let me read these
findings that their so called experts ah in studying this
found out and the experts didn't know anything about this.
It was just a trick to make me turn against the CIA in this
little bit. But I knew they were lying.
Well now one other point on this on this ejector. Lets see,
you stated that the G-forces had you pulled forward to a
point where your legs wouldn't wouldn't clear and all that -
I understand that, but tell me with regard to the the seat
how much clearance did you have if you were in position ah. .
Very little.
Had you gone through dry runs on this event?
Well never, never going out but ah actually how much was
TOP SECRET 19
Approved For Release 2003/f1/29 . CIA-780B01676R002200030003-4
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/41/29 : CIA-R3P80601676R002200030003-4 25X1
TOP SECRET
but there's pretty small there. And the ejection seat was
added to the airplane after the airplane was ah already
designed and built. And ah I was convinced that I could
make it alright but one or two of the pilots who were taller
longer legs and so forth, ah didn't think they could get out
without hitting their legs. I've heard them mention that
that's all.
So if you were out of position in your seat why the the
chances are that ah if you ejected anything that was not in
position would be shaved off?
Powers: Well that that's my impression. It ah, well ah this is metal
across the front top of the canopy. And ah if your legs are
sticking or knees were sticking out a little too far they would
hit that metal. And I don't know what they would do. But I
had made up my mind to use that thing anyway if I couldn't
climb out if I got closer I would - I couldn't climb out and pull
it and take the chance of whatever happened. But I was too
far forward to use it safely.
Interr: Gary, may I ask you a question or two?
Powers: Sure.
Approved For Release 2003/3 P80601676R002200030003-4
20
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-REIP801301676R002200030003-4 25X1
TOP SECRET
Interr: Ah, I'll go back to this orange flame. When you first
see this, is it above or in front of you or behind. Do
you have anything in that way?
Powers: Oh ah, I didn't see an explosion. I just saw alight.
Interr: All around.
Powers: All around. Ah well see I was looking out the front. And
well I could see out the sides also and everything just orange.
Interr: See that That's what point I'm trying to make. You have a
wind screen don't you in the bubble - I mean you can see
forward up the fuselage to the front end of the plane can't
you?
Powers: Yes.
Interr: So you can look ahead?
Powers: Yes.
Interr: Now, at the point of this orange effect, it's ahead of you,
above you and around you but completely.
Powers: That's what it seemed like to me. It just seemed like the
whole sky was orange.
Interr: You didn't get the impression that something orange was
behind you?
TOP SECRET
Approved For Release 2003/11/29 . CIA-R P80601676R002200030003-4
21
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/)1/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
Powers: No. I just saw everything was orange.
Interr: So it couldn't have been something explosive ahead of you
or some - this was an orange fire or something is there
much up at head as there was at the back it was like . .
Powers: I couldn't - I couldn't see behind see.
Interr: Well I meant out the sides,
Powers: Out the sides. Well it seemed to me to be just about the
same in every direction. But I I know I looked straight
out the front. And I don't know how much I glanced tkrb/ to
the sides. But I had the impression that it was all around.
Any where I looked it that it was orange.
Interr: And then it disappears.
Powers: No. Then I got to ah messing with the controls. And I
forgot about that. When ah the wings started to drop and
ah the nose started to drop. But it seems to me that it did
disappear. I don't remember ever seeing it again when
when this thing started coming.
Interr: And you don't remember seeing something like that ah in
the sky as you flipped and flopped and
Powers: No, there is nothing like that again. But the only time
22
TOP SECRET
Approved For Release 2001/01/29 : LAATDP80601676R002200030003-4
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/(11/29 : CIA-14P80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
I remember seeing it is right after this ah explosion and
I either heard or felt, which I ah don't know which. Ah I
looked up I saw it and then started trying to ah control the
airplane that was veering a little bit. And ah I don't rem-
ember seeing it again. But ah of course I looked back down.
And I guess it must have disappeared or or I don't I don't
know.
Interr: Was there anything in the construction of the aircraft ahead
of your seat as the pilot that was explosive?
Powers: I think there was ah a destruction device in a ah recording
outfit in the nose - I'm not sure. I can't remember exactly.
But for ah recording ah the ah radar signals or something
that could be picked up. I think there was one in there -
small one just to destroy that particular cell that was also
connected to this ah ah destruction device. I can't be sure.
Interr: Your general sensation was almost like a push. .
Powers: Yes ah that
Interr: Not a shutter from the front upon you?
Powers: No, uh ah. Just it seemed like ah a little boost - Not much.
I felt no ah ah turbulence no nothing just seemed like just a
Approved For Release 200
DP80601676R002200030003-4
23
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/41/29 : CIA-R P80601676R002200030003-4 25X1
TOP SECRET
little exhilaration. And it might just have been my
imagination I don't know but I can remember feeling
something.
Interr: You you certainly didn't feel anything suddenly retarding
you?
Powers: No, no
Interr: If there was a push it was that way?
Powers: Thay way right, from behind. And I don't know whether
it's because of the position of this orange that I saw but I
had the impression that it was behind and on my right. And
I don't know where I got this impression. But when I was
thinking about it that that's where it seemed to be.
Interr: When the wing flipped down and then you say you saw it
peel off or give way or ah . . . .
Powers: Well the the right wing just dropped like it was making a
turn to the right. Just a little bit. And I ah immediately
corrected and it came back up.
Interr: Now that that wing didn't give the impression of being hit?
Powers: I felt no impact or anything.
Interr: That that's what I ah . . . and the wing it it dropped?
Approved For Release 2003
24
P80601 676R002200030003-4
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/011/29 : CIA-4P80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
Interr:
It just it just seemed like the airplane was turning. Ah one
wing went up and the other went down. I ah but it seemed
like I was about to make a turn to the right.
Not like it was belted around and not going down that's what
it is ? ? ? ?
Powers: No no uh ah.
Interr: Nothing gives you the impression that that wing had been hit
by a blast and knocked down?
Powers: No it just seemed to be a normal ah ah type turn.
Interr: But then you corrected . . . .
Powers: Yes and it ah responded to the controls. And it didn't move
too much it just went down a little bit and ah this is normal
in flying you can't hold things level all the time.
Interr; But then almost immediately your nose . . . .
Powers: Either immediately after or while this was coming back up
the nose started going down. But it was - I remember the
wing going down and bring in.g it back up and the nose going
down and trying to bring it up and it wouldn't come. And I
don't remember that orange light any more after that first
time I looked out and everything looked orange and then
Approved For Release 200
25
DP80601676R002200030003-4
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/41/29 : CIA-R P80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
trying to to level out and so forth.
Interr: As as you moved down in your in that odd inverted position,
the plane was not flaming or smoking or anything was it as
far as you could recall it ?
Powers: I would say there was no fire connected with . . .
Interr: No fire connected with it. Another words it's like this that
a dead bird in the air - it wasn't billowing smoke or . . . .
Powers: If it was I I knew nothing about it.
Interr: And and then then . . . .
Powers: I feel sure that the the engine stopped at this ah was stopping
as this ah maneuver started taking place. Because I can
remember somewhere along thi.s that the the ah rpm gauge
was going down. But I can't remember exactly when I noticed
that. There was some - when the nose dropped there was some
very violent maneuvers. I've never experienced anything quite
like it. I I don't know exactly what happened there. And it
didn't take long. But it ended up in that inverted position going
around and I think it was going around clockwise. Wait a min-
ute now - I was upside down. Ah well anyway when I opened
the canopy it flew off to the left. So that probably meant that
Approved For Release 200
DP80601676R002200030003-4
26
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-R1:1P80601676R002200030003-4 25X1
TOP SECRET
I was going counter-clockwise ah ah looking at it from the top
say.
Interr: Now you have a face mask on and that fogged up at once I take
it.
Powers: No, ah well when the canopy came off uh ah. The cold air hit
it and ah it was
Would you please go ahead and explain to this ah to us that
at no time did you suffer any blackout or unconsciousness
at all from the period just preceding the orange flash until
you were on the ground? For record purposes.
Powers: No, there was no period to my knowledge that I was not that
I was in any way 44Lk unconscious or anything. I can rem- 25X1
ember even now very vividly all that happened during this
time. And ah - ah at that time it was very plain to me. The
ah flash occurred - I made corrections on the airplane - the
nose went down - it made some violent maneuvers - and
started spinning and I knew it was going on all the time. -
What was going on all the time.
At any point on the trip , had you any feeling of nausea or
any giddeness or light-headeness or did you go the whole way
Approved For Release 2003
P80601 676R002200030003-4
27 25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/ P80601676R002200030003-4
Powers:
Powers:
in good health?
I was feeling good. In fact ah I felt real good as soon as
the weather cleared and I could see the ground. Because
I knew I was getting ah some good stuff. And I ah felt
good.
In the decent when you were in the parachute coming towards
the earth, you mentioned that the only thing that you saw
coming down was what appeared to be a flat object which may
possibly have been one of the wings at a considerable dis -
tance ?
It ah was something flat falling like ah I don't know whether
you would call it a leaf or maybe a flat piece of wood like a
flat piece of wood that tumbles as it falls. And depending on
the distance away from me would be the size if it was a long
way away, which I couldn't tell, it would have been big enough
to be a wing. If it was closer it could have been a smaller
piece. So I don't know what that was.
And nothing else was observed by you on your way down - no
smoke, debri s anything except this one little fragment which
seemed to be spinning down.
TOP SECRET
25X1 Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-rP80601676R0022000300034
28
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
Powers:
Powers:
Powers:
Int err:
Powers:
Interr:
The only thing that I can remember seeing is is that one
piece. And it was just flipping.
And there was no . . . .
No smoke no no fire no nothing.
And did you see anything that would indicate to you an
explosion, such as a plane plowing into the ground or
anything?
No I didn't see that. But one of the ah witnesses that they
called at the trial said that he heard an explosion when the
ah ah stuff hit the ground ah I don't know which part he was
talking about. He said it sounded like an explosion I don't
know. And some of my ah little parts of my maps were
scorched. So there had been a fire ah on the ground but
there ah was no fire in the cockpit while I was ah in it.
And to the best of your knowledge there was never any over
temp in the engine?
No definately not because I had retarded the throttle to main-
tain 70, 000 feet so that I wouldn't climb higher and the engine
was running below -oh max viable temperature.
I think that ah I think answers my as far as
Approved For Release 200!
DP80601676R002200030003-4
29
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
TOP SECRET
Interr: That's as far as we can go for right now. Suppose we
adjourn and ah consider after dinner if we want to take
this up this evening. Ah well it depends on you. I
would think maybe get a fresh start in the morning
since we got a late start this afternoon.
Powers: Well it's up to you.
Interr: Well we'll make decisions after dinner and see how we
feel.
Powers: Fine.
Interr: We are concluding Tape # 2 - Tuesday the 13th which
started at 16:26 and is stopping at 17:18. Present at
this time are Mr. Powers,
and
had stepped out of the room a few minutes
previously. This is all there is to this tape.
Approved For Release 20037 P80601676R002200030003-4
30
25X1
26x1
25X1
25X1
25X1
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
25X1 Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4
Approved For Release 2003/01/29 : CIA-RDP80601676R002200030003-4