DEBRIEFING OF FRANCIS GARY POWERS, TAPE # 1

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP80B01676R002200030002-5
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: T
• Document Page Count: 51
• Document Creation Date: December 14, 2016
• Document Release Date: December 30, 2002
• Sequence Number: 2
• Publication Date: February 13, 1962
• Content Type: MIN

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Tape: #1
Date: 13 February 1962
Time: 1445 Hours
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Let the record show that the debriefing of Francis Gary
Powers with regard to the U-2 flight over the USSR on
1 May 1960 commenced at 1445 hours, 13 February 1962.
The Debriefing Team is composed of Messrs.
This is Tape #1. Now,
Frank, will you, in your own words, recount to us your
experiences starting with the initial briefing for this series
of operations which culminated in the flight of 1 May 1960.
Powers: We were first notified that there might be an operation
several days before this took place but we didn't know
when or where exactly. A few days after that they told
us as well as I can remember who would be going to each
site to take care of this particular operation and during
the time that we were waiting the pilots who were picked to
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fly the particular mission were shown the maps, the route,
and also helped to make annotations on the maps of airfields
and other installations that were not indicated on the map
when it was printed.
Just let me interrupt here - don't hesitate to name names
and places here because we all know what you are talking
about and we have to be specific to the best of your recol-
lection.
Powers: This is pretty hazy. I feel that I must be leaving some
things out -
We'll go back over that but we want to test your recollection.
Powers: I don't remember the exact times or how long we waited
before going but I do know that we did study some routes,
possible routes. We didn't know what the mission would
be - which one it would be, and we studied at least two
different routes and the maps were not up to date and we
helped to pinpoint information which would help in navigation.
Sometime the latter part of April we were notified that a
meeting was called of certain groups of people who were
going on this particular mission. We all knew who would
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be going on it when it went so we were called in for a
briefing and we were told when it would - when our planes
would leave and this was just several hours before we left
f for - I can't remember the name of the base
There was another group of people who were
going to
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yes, and we were told what time the planes would
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depart. I think most of this briefing was conducted by the
Security Officer telling us what to take, what not to take
with us to - on the trip.
I think - I'm not sure because the planes
not sure and seems to me as if I
I think - I'm 25X1
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know he was there - I think he was in charge of the security
there, but anyway either the Security Officer,
or one of the other security members gave most of the
briefings. We were told where we were going, what to
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take along, what not to take along - no cameras and stuff
like that - we didn't know how long we would be there
but it was supposed to be as short as possible. I can't
remember everything that went on there but it was just
a general briefing - no details - many people were in there
that didn't know where the flight was going to go.
This took place at -
Powers: At
Powers: Yes, in our security area in our briefing room. I think
maybe
I feel sure that he did but it was very short (illegible) -
we didn't have much time - just an hour or two to go back
to (illegible) to get something to eat, take a few sandwiches
with us and come back and catch a plane, but there were
more than one plane and people left at different times.
As far as I know that's about all that happened there before
we left. Now, you want me to go on with the trip?
Yes. Prior to that shove-off briefing, or that final
briefing, which I believe the record will show was on the
26th of April -
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Powers: It was the latter part of April -
1960, yes, about a month prior to that you had become
aware, however, of this series of flights, had you not,
that you and[:::::]and -
were going to be on -
Powers: Yes, it was some weeks before that but I don't know
exactly how long.
You had had a preliminary briefing on this that this caper
was going to come off -
Powers: Yes, we knew that something was going to come off
and we knew that it would be one of several flights. I
don't know exactly which one, they didn't know until
very shortly - at least I didn't know until shortly before
which one of these particular flights would be going.
Do you know the name that was given to the May 1 flight?
Name - I'm sure I did know it -
Does Grandslaxn ring any bell with you?
Its a familiar word - it was associated with that - there
was maybe another name but -
Well, go ahead for now
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Powers: Well, we were in this period that between the time we
found out that something would be going we studied
possible routes, and then it came up to the 26th of
April and we got the final briefing before setting off.
But that was a group briefing for everyone- no particulars.
From there we went to -
This was at
Powers: Yes, all of this was at
late in the evening, as well as I can remember, on a
C 130. I may get these confused because on April the
9th we had another trip that I went on, not as a pilot but
as a standby pilot and some of this might be confused with
that, I'm not sure.
Let us clarify some here with you - don't worry too much
about the fact that you may be off on this. Actually, we
are indeed testing your recollection at this point and we'll
go over this again to attempt to refresh your memory on
some things but the state of your memory at this particular
point is quite important too.
Powers: Right now I'm a little nervous and I don't know whether I
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can recall all the things that I might be able to later.
Anyway we left
26 - arrived in
F think it shows there - on April
[nd the briefing was that the
flight was to go off I think the day after we arrived there.
I don't remember the exact time we arrived but we had
time to rest up and the next morning it should go. But
there were several delays and each time there was a
delay or cancellation the airplane would come in, the
flight would be cancelled, the standby pilot, the one who
was to back me up, would take the airplane back to
Who was that?
Well, this happened about three or four times - I think
the first one was
studied the map with me lets see - at different
times there was -
- wait a minute - I know
as the first one.-
I don't know, but it seems to me that
the first one - he and I were to be prepared together and
if anything happened to my equipment or my health then
he would take over. I think he was the first one. The
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one after that was the other one of those two -
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- I don't know the exact way they
came, and on the last day, or the day that the flight went,
was to back me up. He was pre-briefing when
I was getting prepared to go andi was on
mobile control and I had studied this route or these routes
before and some of these other boys hadn't and each time
they would come I would give them a rundown and go over it
with them to prepare them for it in case something happened
to me, just to show them the route and what these annotations
we put on the map meant. And
control - oh, he brought the last airplane over - his - and -
I'm getting ahead of myself I think - the Intelligence Officer,
I k believe, was there - I am pretty
sure he was - no, he was not - it was the Navigator that went
over these maps with me and the other boys when I was
trying to explain the route to them, and I think that was -
seems like it starts with a D - the name - Major - I can't
remember his name. This is coming in a little confused
in my mind right now and I am probably getting everything
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a little out of order. Well, we'll see if we can start over
again. When I first arrived there we went into a hangar
and got everything prepared to receive the U-2 when it
came in - ah, the crews did. We prepared food and places
to sleep and, if I'm not mistaken, it was
in and I think this might have been either
D
and myself who were the first two to prepare to go. We
studied the maps on the first afternoon and night and were
briefed by the Navigator - I can't remember his name -
Major D - something -
Yes, I think so - I am almost positive - .1 am almost
positive - after that we ate, took a sleeping pill and went
to bed because we would have to get up early and while we
were asleep, ah - ah - another pilot brought an airplane
I think that was the way it was - either of those two, but I
can't remember which one. And, we got up the next morning,
also studied the maps again, last weather briefings, etc.
a lot of this was done while we were pre-breathing, and there
were two of us in case one of us should become ill or equip-
ment malfunction the other would take over. I was to go if
everything was all right. I don't remember exactly when
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we got word that the mission was cancelled, but
immediately upon getting this word the man who backed
me up, who was pre-breathing with me, got dressed
and took the airplane back to
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night I think the same thing happened, but another pilot
brought it, and the man who had brought the plane the
day before was to back me up and he had to be briefed
on the route.
Interrogator: Gary, let me ask you a question. The plane came in,
the mission is cancelled. Now, takes that
plane back.
Powers: I feel pretty sure it wa~- I can't be positive
on that, but it seems to me that it was, but he is -
if it was him, he was the one who took it back. But
the man who brought the plane in, which was I believe
remained there to become
No. 2 man behind me again the next day.
Interrogator: And is this the same plane, the identical ship?
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Powers: There was a change in the airplane somewhere in this
procedure. You see, this was cancelled about three
times and there was three or four airplanes who came
over - which came over - and there was, if I'm not
mistaken, a change in the aircraft - I don't know
whether this particular one only came that one time
or it had made two trips over there. I don't know.
But, the flying time was - inspection time was
becoming due on the other and flying back and forth
to Adana was running the time out and they had to get
another airplane.
Interr: So - but there was - there were two planes now involved?
Powers: Yes.
Interr: The first one went up and went back, and then it may -
Powers: It may have made two trips, or it may not - I can't
remember. But there was another airplane (illegible)
and I had some special instructions on this particular
airplane - this last one becaus e of - we constantly ran
fuel consumption tests on this and some of the last
tests we ran showed that there was some fuel remaining
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in one of the leading edge, or - what do we call it -
the (illegible) I think we call them, but the external
tanks that stuck out from the front wing and
I
very good. There was a certain point in the northern
part of the Soviet Union that, when I got there, I had -
would be keeping track of my fuel I'd know how much
I had and if I had enough fuel I was to continue the way
the flight was planned, and it was to go around
over the water to a certain point and then come back
down the west coast of
But I had certain cut-
off routes drawn in from points up in this northern
part that I could go straight ac
case of emergency. Also on the maps
there were fields that were marked as emergency
landing fields in case of a flame out or some sort of
trouble and I was told which would be best, which is
not very good, and which - and one or two that - don't
do it if you can possibly help it but if you can't do any-
thing else, go on in there. But that was only, I think,
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on this particular airplane because it had had a little
of fuel trouble. In fact,
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told me since 25X1
it had that it might be best to go straight across from
one of these points - I believe - I don't think I would
have gone across
rrom that particular point,
but to cut it short becaus e he didn't know whether
this would feed all the fuel or not and he wanted to
make sure that I got there and it was planned pretty
much maximum range and the weather wasn't
exceptionally good at
Interr: Going back
Powers: Lets see, I think I've got ahead of myself again -
Interr: Can we safely say that the plane that was originally
scheduled for this flight was not the plane that
ultimately - that you ultimately flew?
Powers: Yes, as near as I can remember - I'm pretty sure
I did not confuse this with any other
Interr: And this was caused by cancellations from day to day
that required that the plane be flown back to
Powers: Yes.
If the plane did not go -
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Powers: Right.
Interr: And that was the case. So there was no way of knowing
up until the last - the end of
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would actually be used. Is that right?
Powers: I had no way of knowing whatsoever. Or at least none
of us there - well, maybe, maybe the commanding
officer or someone -
Interr: Back at the base they would know what plane was being
selected each day -
Powers: Yes, and then through communications they would inform.
the appropriate people there, I think. I don't know -but
I had no way of knowing until after they had told me.
But I can't remember exactly how many trips each
plane made -
Interr: But I think that'll be pretty well administrative records
somewhere -
Powers: I'm sure its recorded somewhere -
Interr: So, suppose you go ahead -
Powers: For the las t - lets see - April and May - the night
of April the 30th it was
~nd myself who
were being prepared to - for the flight the next day,
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myself as No. 1 and I
Ito go if anything
happened to my equipment or my health.
was to bring the airplane over, so and I ate, went
to bed, slept, got up and this airplane was there. I
don't remember the number of the airplane but it was
there when we woke up. We got up, had a last weather
briefing - lets see - I don't remember when I exactly
found out which mission would be flown. I knowtha t
there was a lot of talk about it might be changed due to
weather but I don't know when I found out that this
particular one that went all the way across to
would be flown. There was another - another one
that we also studied that - lets see - is this right -
it seems to me that there was another - another flight
plan that went up into Russia up toward the Caspian
and Black Sea someway and then back down to
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but I can't remember that too much. We studied the
other because I think it was first priority and would
go if at all possible, but I don't remember when I
found out which one would be going. I think maybe
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I found out that this one
would go if possible, This was the one they wanted
most of all, but I don't remember when I knew that
this was the preferred one, but I know I spent more
time studying that one than anyone els e. Its very hard
to recall some of these things. Both
Fnd I got up,
had a last look at the maps, got the weather briefing
from the Navigator, the personal equipment sergeant
fixed us up to pre-breath,
I think to me primarily because everything was going
fine and I was feeling all right and it looked as if I
would go unless some of my equipment malfunctioned
and my equipment had been checked out and it was all
right so far. Ah - I don't remember which one it was,
whether it was the Navigator or the Colonel who gave
me this coin with the pin in it but that was given to me
on that morning.
Interr: The Navigator was who? You can't remember his name?
Powers: Yes - s - if I am not mistaken it starts with a D. I can
almost picture the name but I cannot think of it. I knew
him very well, we got along, so I will remember it soon
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I think.
Interr: Who suited you up?
Powers: Sergeant - I believe it was Sergeant
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I don't know - seems like that name is the one it should
be.
Interr: What part did
ready to go?
play in getting you
Powers: Well, seelIwas gotten ready at the same time.
Interr: I see.
Powers: Yes, he put on his helmet, got in another chair and
was hooked up with the oxygen the same as I was so
that there would be another man ready to go.
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who had brought the plane in the night before
stayed up to act as mobile control and to - and the duty
of our mobile control was to monitor the check list as
the pilot was in the airplane and prepared to start and
etc., and we had an intercom system run by battery that
we could talk to each other during this and he would watch
and see that no mistakes were made and the procedures
of starting and getting everything ready before take-off
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and he was also, in this particular instance, let me know
when this flight would take off because we had no word.
We had a scheduled take-off time of, I think it was about
six o'clock in the morning local - local time? Seems like
it was six o'clock, but I don't know whether that's local
or Green - Green - but the time came for me to go out
and get in the airplane if I made this take-off time if I
were to be able to make it but we still did not know whether
the mission would go or not. So, I got out, got in the
airplane, went through all the procedures except starting,
and waited, and at the take-off time no word had come yet
and I finally got off the ground, I think, very close to
thirty minutes late - twenty-eight or thirty minutes or
something like that. So that threw off all my pre-computed
celestial navigation but that was no problem. Ah -
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I ]was standing on a ladder and the sun was up and
very hot and he took his shirt off and held it over me to
shade me some because in those suits it is pretty
miserable. He was standing there looking toward the
communications building and there was some sort of
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signal that he was supposed to see. If it was cancelled
he would take me - help me get out of the airplane - if
it was to go he would tell me, let me start, and get me
off, and the scheduled take-off time came and passed
and, I'd say about five or six minutes before - no less -
four or five minutes before I actually took off, he got
the signal, said "good luck", patted me on the back,
closed the canopy - no - watched me - I don't remember
whether he watched me start the engine or not - I think
so - watched me start the engine, told me "good luck",
"see me later", I think, patted me on the back, closed
the canopy and got back out of the way. When the power
unit was disconnected, I had no time to meet - I was to
just get off as soon as possible. The power unit was dis-
connected, everything got back out of the way, and I took
off as fast as I could and it was right at thirty minutes
behind s chedule.
Interr: Going back a little bit, let me ask you a question. Did
give you the pin or did he - or did he not give
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give you the pin?
Powers: I don't think he did. I think it was either the Navigator
or the Colonel - I can't remember - I know it was just
stuck in my flying s uit pocket.
Interr: Which pocket of your flying suit ?
Powers: Let me think - one of the leg pockets, with the zipper -
I think it was the right leg - its a pocket that's on the
front of the upper right leg and it has a zipper so that
nothing can fall out.
Inte r r: Did he put it in there or did the other person put it in
there?
Powers: I can't remember exactly - I think maybe they put it in
there and told me where it was and I saw them put it in.
Interr: Now, what was your understanding or instructions with
regard to the use of the pin?
Powers: We had talked about this prior to this and it was Captain
the Intelligence Officer, who was talking to us
about it. The instructions were that we could take it or
not take it. It was up to us as pilots, and that was the
same instructions we had with the other - ah - the pill
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that we had previously, and he told us that it was
strictly up to us to take this or not to take it and he
said - I don't know whether this particular briefing
or not or maybe it was a special briefing for just two
or three of us concerning this flight. We hadn't had
these pins long I don't think - ah - that we might be
tortured if anything happened to us - if we went down,
and he said it might be a good idea to take this, try to
conceal it on the person, that maybe this coin since it
was a good luck charm would not be taken away or
something, and we could save that, but that never
worked. Ah - but if we could conceal it on ourselves -
keep it - and we couldn't stand the torture, we could
use it. Or, he said it would make a good weapon.
And, I think they asked me that morning if I wanted
to take it and I think I decided then to take it. I'm not
sure whether it was that morning or one of the previous
mornings when I got ready but it wasn't too long before
that I decided to take it with me, but I was never
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instructed to kill myself.
Interr: You were under no instructions to destroy yourself
with this pin in the event of capture?
Powers: No. I was only told - well, I didn't have to take it.
Interr: Uhhuh. Was there any final briefing or go away
briefing as to what you should do or what you anticipated
you would do in the event of capture?
Powers: No particular briefing for this
particular mission,
but a general briefing at sometime or the other for
anywhere in the Soviet Union on any particular mission
that something might happen and it was to get out if
possible.
Interr: Had you declared yourself in connection with such a
briefing as to what your philos ophy was in the event
of capture?
Powers: I don't know. I don't - we were all much too optimistic
I think - didn't think anything would happen to the airplane
and we trusted the airplane and its a good airpl ane. We
had flown a lot in it and were very optimistic and earlier,
I think, in '56, '57 we did a lot of thinking about this, but
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later, not a lot. We've had several briefings about
different terrains, what to expect in different areas,
how would be maybe the best way to get out of the
country. We also had in our survival equipment a
bunch of stuff that was completely useless. I didn't
have an opportunity to use it, but I'm convinced now
that it was no good whatsoever, and there's some
things I want to say about this particular point later.
Interr: Well, we'll get onto the -
Powers: Yes. Lets see, you asked me whether I had made any
particular - all I knew, I believe, was just that - well,
I didn't think it would ever happen - over-confident, I
guess, and I certainly hoped that it would never happen,
but - was to destroy the airplane, that was the first
thing, if possible. To - I had made up in my own mind
what I would try to do, but I don't think I had ever talked
it over with anybody, and that would be - the most likely
thing would be malfunction of the airplane . I figured
they couldn't shoot it down or anything like that. There
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there would be a flameout, or a fuel line burst, or
anyone of hundreds of things that could happen that
wouldn't let the airplane fly, and what I, particularly,
had had in my mind to do and had thought about myself,
was to glide down and try to get it re-started if it was
a flameout or try to correct the -
Visitor: Sorry to bother you, but you have a call here,
Interr: We are going back on the tape after about a six minute
interval, and it is now 1532. The las t item that you
mentioned, Gary, you made a s tatement something to
the effect that in talking it over you had you had made up
your mind what you were going to do in the event of
trouble with the plane.
Powers : Right, and my personal plan was - well, I didn't even
think about any possibility of being shot down or think of
anything happening at a high altitude. Only - all my plan
included was being able to glide down, and I intended
to go down, try to correct any trouble that could be
corrected, try restarts if it was a flameout or something
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like that, and if - if unsuccessful and I knew I was going
on into the ground to - at a very high altitude, as high
as I could after making an attempt to restart, etc.,
knowing that I couldn't correct the trouble, to set the
destructive switches and bail out so that the plane, the
wreckage of the plane would hit somewhere away from
me, and that I would be - I even thought about having
the auto pilot on if possible and have it in a slight turn
so that it might be headed in a different direction so
that it might throw them off to where I was. I had in
my survival equipment some food, matches, enough
stuff to last a little while without any outside help. I
even had some canned water, etc. I wouldn't have had
to have done any hunting or anything immediately after -
I'd have tried to get several miles in between that s pot -
in between myself and the plane as soon as possible.
From then on it was just to do my best to evade capture
and head in what I thought was the best direction from
anywhere an accident might happen. But I don't know
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whether I ever discussed this - this plan of mine with
anyone or not. Maybe some of the pilots talked it over
together - what would you do in this cas e, etc. I can't
remember, but I know we probably did dis cuss this a
little bit among ourselves.
Interr: You can't recall any actual debriefing of you as to your
philosophy or behavior in the event you were captured?
Powers: I can't recall any, no.
Interr: Can you s ay for certain that there was no such debriefing
preparatory to your departure on this flight?
Powers: Now this is where I think I might confuse either the April
the 9th flight and mine.
flights - I think I as ked him the particular question and I
think it was on the April the 9th flight , I'm not sure.
flew that one ?
Powers: Yes, he flew that one. And they had that from radar
apparently because they asked where I was on that day,
and I told them probably drunk in the club, but they
didn't press that too much. I think it was that time that
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he told as - I asked him what story would be released
in cas e something happened, what would be said and
released to the public or to the press and there were -
I think he said it would be either one of two things -
lets see - there was nothing definite - definite - there
was two choices, and he didn't know at the time what he
would do , I don't think, which would be released, or I
don't know whether he would make the decision on which
one to be released. But there were two things and one of
them, I think, was routine weather flight from Pakis tan
to Turkey, and don't know what happened to'it; the other
was some sort - lets see, what was that - oh, yes, that
the pilot had been acting strangely the last few days or
something and something might have happened - he
might have become a little crazy or something. Thos e
were the two things - I think it was on this April the 9th
flight. On my particular flight I cannot remember anything
definite being said and I didn't ask the question for some
reason or the other, I don't know why, or what story would
be released. I had no idea what story would be put in the
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newspapers that had happened to me if anything did
happen that the flight did not go through, and that was
bad. I should have had something. Scooting ahead, I
tried to make up one but it was no good immediately
because of the equipment I had with me.
Interr: Well, going back to where we broke off, you were about
to take off on the flight.
Powers: Yes, I started up - they moved the equipment out of the
way - took off as soon as possible - it was very close, I
think 28 minutes but I call it, say, approximately 30
minutes after the first scheduled take-off time, and I
was to climb directly on course, and we had a system of
signals, not with radio transmissions but with clicks
on the radio transmitter and receiver, and if I didn't
click at all that meant that everything was all right ,
but if I gave a certain number of clicks and I don't
remember the exact system, what it was, that meant
that I would be coming back, that meant that I would be
coming back, that something had happened, and I think
was to monitor the radio in case I got in
any sort of trouble for, I believe, 30 minutes after
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take-off and that's approximately the range of the radio.
Maybe I could hear him a little farther or he could hear
me but we had the time and I believe it was 30 minutes.
I think when he went off the air he clicked me, I don't
remember, but I didn't answer anything. There was -
contrails were a little higher than expected, but I got
above those, so that was all right, it was overcast for a
very long way - when I crossed the border into the Soviet
Union, but I got a good - is there anything you want to know
in between this time that I might have left out, or to just
continue along?
Interr: No, you just continue along to the best of your recollection.
Powers: Across the border there was an undercast and I couldn't
see the ground, but according to the time I knew I was
very close and approximately when I crossed it. There
was a city there inside several miles inside the Soviet
Union - I don't remember the name of the city -I could
show it on the flight map and I might even be able to find
it on this one if it is all right.
Interr: Yes, go right ahead.
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Powers: No - no it's not here.
Interr: It's back off that map -
Powers: But it might have been - well, I don't know, but anyway
I had a radio frequency on the map for a radio in this
particular city and the frequency was right - I don't
think I ever picked up a call sign but the radio compass
was pointing in the right direction. I took a swing as I
passed this and found out that I was very close to course,
but I couldn't see the ground. I went on and I can't remember
the exact times I arrived at different places but it was very
close to the scheduled flight time between each point. There
was a rocket range east of the Aral Sea and south of that -
that was my first target, I think, I turned the cameras on
etc. I think it was. But south of that it cleared up and
there was - it looked to me like desert land - the map
showed a big river with some smaller streems running
into it but it was very confusing and I think it was because
it was spring of the year and these small streams were in
flood and they were big and I was a little confused but I
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figured out I was to the right of course - I figured
20 or 30 miles - when I found myself on the ground,
so I corrected back to course - not directly back
over but to intercept course because there was nothing
underneath this area that anyone was interested in as far
as I knew. I had no special instructions to get any informa-
tion or turn any cameras on along this area. So, I
corrected back over gradually - got up to just south of
the rocket launching site that I was told would be there -
there was a river there and the cloud started again on
that river and I never did see that first target - this
rocket launching site and I think I was still a little to
the right of course there but I couldn't pinpoint myself
exactly because of the cloud coverage and the rivers
all being bigger than they were supposed to be on the
map - than the map showed them to be and I couldn't
tell which river was which by looking at the ground and
looking at the map. Just prior to getting to my first
target there I observed a contrail about - I estimated
I remember writing it down on the map - 20 miles to
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the right of my course going in an opposite direction
to myself. A few minutes later I observed another
contrail approximately the same distance to the right
of my course going in the other direction very close to
parallel, almost in a straight line but he was to the right
and I assumed that they were looking for me but they made
no maneuvers - just straight and that's the only contrails -
Interr: Were they below you, or -
Powers: Well, you see I was pulling no contrails so he had to be
below me but I don't know what altitude he might have been
but it didn't worry me because it looked like he was quite
a ways below me. So, I as sume there that they were
tracking me. I ran into the clouds again and couldn't get
any coverage on the first target. Now, I observed an air-
field off to the right - I think I can show you the approximate
area that ; its in when I see a map or a similar map to the
one I had - that it wasn't annotated on the map, so it might
be something new and it might not - I don't know. There
was some course corrections to make here and since it
was cloudy again I just turned what the map said and left
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a few degrees in the - to correct for the little more wind
that I figured had blown me to the right of course. I think
after leaving this first target area here I was to turn
several degrees to the right - I don't believe it was as
much as 45 degrees - I can't remember the headings
but I do believe that during this time I was heading west
of north, but I don't remember how many degrees. And,
I hadn't made enough wind correction because I still kept
drifting to the right of course, I found out later, but
going up through there nothing happened - I couldn't see
anything on the ground - I tried to use my pre-computed
celestial navigation - I tried to take a shot at the sun with
the sextant but it was computed for the original take-off
time and I was 30 minutes late and I couldn't get any
information out of this. A little - lets see - I can't
remember where the clouds started thinning out -
but it was approximately somewhere between half and
three-quarters way - a half and three-quarters of the
distance to the city of Sverdlovsk - I don't :know the
exact pronunciation, and the clouds began to get thin
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and I could see through them but there was still clouds
there. I observed off to the right - wait a minute now -
somewhere along in this area south of Chelyabinsk, or
a city there, I started having a little auto pilot trouble -
the - lets see, what is it - the pitch control - so I
disconnected it, flew it by hand a while, connected it
back and it worked fine for several minutes - I don't
know how long, but it was all right then and then it
started acting up again, so I did the same thing again
and it worked fine again for a while and then - but a
shorter time. So I decided to cut it off completely and
fly it by hand. I could have made a decision there to
either turn back or go on, but I was what I considered
about half way if I took the short cuts that I was briefed -
that I could take at the northern part of my route . I
would have been closer to - to the landing place there
than I would be by going back to
here. This was - this map doesn't quite go - I don't
know whether it goes far enough west or not. Where is
Sverdlovsk - is it on here?
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Interr: Yes - here we are -
Powers: Here we are, yes. Now lets see, this was in the clear -
Chelyabinsk - this was in the clear - right down in here
somewhere the clouds were getting thin -
Intern Chelyabinsk was in the clear? That's the pronunciation
of it2
Powers: I think they called it Chelyabinsk or something like that.
It was completely in the clear - the clouds were thin
several miles south of that place - I could see through
them, and I picked up a radio station that was the right
frequency that I had on my map from Chelyabinsk. I
corrected back to course there, because by the radio
compass I knew I was too close to this city of Chelyabinsk -
I should have been farther to the left , so I corrected back
and got on course in this area. South of Chelyabinsk just
a little bit the auto pilot gave me the trouble and I decided
not to use it From somewhere in this area here - I think
an
I can get/approximate position. I saw - what is - a tank
farm - I don't know - they were big tanks - something
like an oil storage place - that's what I thought it was
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and I annotated that on the map giving an approximate
position because I didn't know exactly where I was there -
I knew I was to the right of course - I knew this was to
the right of me and I made a circle there in that area -
it was where this farm was. I corrected back on course
and there was some important targets at - well, lets see -
at some lakes over here - I had been given s ome informa-
tion - lets see - lakes northwest of Chelyabinsk - I had
been given some information about an area around that
lake - there was something there that they especially
wanted a picture of - they had a whole line through there
that they wanted to get very badly. It was perfectly clear -
a beautiful day there. I went over this particular place
and I think there were a few course corrections in here -
I mean course changes on my map in this area, but I
can't remember what they were. But I went over this
particular place that they were particularly interested in.
All I knew about it, or all the information I had about it
was where it was, which was exactly right and they thought
it was a building complex of some kind which it was.
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But the buildings were big buildings - it was a well
laid out place - it could have been something like a
military - army field with big barracks - something
like that. It seemed like there was a lot of distance
between the buildings - it didn't look like a factory area
but they were right in it being a building complex and
they were exactly right on the position that this was -
on position. I went over that good and was congratulating
myself because the weather had changed and the cameras
worked perfectly, or at least the lights told me they did,
and I was feeling good. North of there, after that
particular flight line, I had a turn almost 90 degrees to
the right and I think, if I remember correctly, that leg
was about four minutes, but I can't be positive. From
there I turned, according to my map, back - left turn
over 90 degrees to a heading of west of north some way -
I don't remember what it was. But, I had a long flight
line that led over Sverdlovsk - not over it but over the
southern edge of the city on a - I think northwesterly
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direction - lets see - it was in this direction - yes -
in a northwesterly direction, and the flight line went on a
southern outskirts of the city, and right exactly on my
flight path which was not annotated on the map as it went
by the city - I'd say almost directly south of the city was
an airfield. My map didn't show it or the information I
received did not show this airfield, and I was lined up
perfectly on this flight line - everything was fine -
I just rolled on my turn and got lined up taking some
interim instrument readings and recording oxygen -
normal procedure - when I felt or heard an explosion.
I have no idea what or anything - it just - I don't know
whether I heard it or not but I felt it - just like everything
stopped, and I can't say that I heard it - I don't know.
It seemed to me that it - well, I immediately looked up
and all I could see through my canopy was just orange
light - definitely orange is all I know, but everything I
could see was that color. This explosion seemed to me
to be behind me and to the right . I was looking at the
instruments at the time - I had just looked at them -
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everything was perfect - the only thing wrong with the
aircraft was the auto pilot pitch control and I wasn't
using the auto pilot. I had been straight and level on
this particular leg of one or two minutes - I don't know -
not very long - everything lined up and started taking my
readings and then the explosion. I remember saying to
myself, or saying out loud, I don't know, I think it was
"Oh, God, I've had it now", or something like that - the
first thing that entered my mind, and I couldn't tell you
how much time passed - it would be impossible - it
just seemed that everything was standing still for a little
while. I just saw that red glow, looked down - the right
wing started to drop - I corrected it and brought the right
wing up fine. The nose started to drop and I pulled back
on the stick and there was no connection between the
controls and the tail, and the plane just nosed straight
over and I feel sure that the wings broke off broadside
of the wind that way - they must have folded down this
way and came off. The airplane tumbled on over, ended
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up in an inverted position with nose high - I don't know
how much of the airplane was left. It was nose high -
canopy here - my head was pointing - I'd say - well I
can't estimate what angle it was to the ground - 45 degrees
or more, but it wasn't flat - straight down - the nose was
high and the tail or the airplane was low and it started
spinning very violently, and it slid me forward against
forward
my seat belt all the way/and I couldn't get back to the
back of the seat. I immediately said "OK, I've got to
get out" - reached up to arm the destructor and then I
thought, no, I'd better see if I can use this ejection s eat,
so I started squirming around trying to force myself back
against these G-forces - the G-forces, by the way, were
throwing me in - relative to the position I was in - up and
forward - not directly toward the nose of the airplane but
forward and toward the canopy rail almost in a line from the
seat directly above the instrument panel. And I have no
way of knowing how many G's, but there were several -
I couldn't force myself with hands and feet back to my seat
and I always kept my seat belt fairly tight, but it had given
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enough or it wasn't tight enough so that I was too far
forward to use the ejection seat - it was impossible, or
I felt that both of my legs would come off - it would hit
the canopy. So, that's the only way -
Interr: You mean you wouldn't have had enough clearance -
Powers: I wouldn't have had enough clearance to get my legs out.
I couldn't think of anything at that time but the ejection
seat - I didn't even realize that there was any other way
to get out of the airplane at that particular time. I kept
trying to get back in that seat so that I could get prepared
to hit the destructor and get out, and this thing was falling
and I kept glancing at the altimeter and came on down and
the last time I looked at the altimeter it was 34, 000 feet
or somewhere in that area, and it was unwinding pretty
fast and I am sure there was a lag and I figured I was a
little lower. Then I remembered something that
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Thad told me that - he had had a crash in this
airplane, and he said that he couldn't get his canopy off
and he told himself to - talking to himself, he said
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you've got to stop and think", and he said - he had told
me that he just stopped and thought and said the sills
is what's holding the canopy on, unloosened them and
got out. Well that - I don't know why that came to my
mind, but I remembered him saying that, and I told
myself the same thing. "Stop, think", and it suddenly
came to me that I could open the canopy and climb out,
and that's the - this was the last time I looked at the
altimeter at 34, 000 feet or lower, right in that area
there the altimeter said 34, 000, give or take a few
hundred. So, I stopped and thought that I could
possibly climb out. I reached up and got both the
emergency and normal canopy release handles, pulled
them back, the normal side released first and it flew
open and fell on off very nicely, and I immediately
opened my seat belt, and the G-forces raised me up
in a sort of a standing position. My oxygen hose was
still hooked up - I had forgotten to disconnect that but
I hadn't forgotten to pull my emergency oxygen supply.
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That was already on - I did that one of the first things,
but I was at least half way out of the airplane leaning
leaning over the top of the canopy like this and I think
that the only thing that was holding me in was my oxygen
hose. I tried to get back in the airplane because I had to
use that destructor switch. I couldn't get back in - I
couldn't get out - just hanging there with my head out in
the air, and some way I knocked this rear view mirror
off - I remember seeing it float off forward relative to
me. I tried to reach down in the airplane back here to
get to the destructor switches - I couldn't get to them
and I knew I was below 34, 000 feet - I didn't know how
high I was - had no way of knowing when I first opened
the canopy my face plate fogged up completely - couldn't
see. I knew I was getting close to the ground - I had no
idea how close, and I knew after trying to get back in there
so I could get to the destruction switches that I couldn't
do it - it was impossible, so I just gave a big kick - lunge -
and something gave on that oxygen hose - I don't know
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what broke but something gave, maybe it just pulled out
of the quick disconnect there even though I had it locked -
somewhere along in there it gave and I went off into the
air. The chute opened almost immediately. I didn't
want it to do that - I didn't pull the ripcord, but when I
had opened my lap belt apparently the automatic - the
automatic part of the chute that opens it automatically
at a certain altitude had remained with that seat belt
and pulled as it - as I flew up against the front of the
canopy. All I can remember is that I floated off over
the nose of the airplane and a great feeling of relief
came over me - I remember that, and I felt the opening
shock of the parachute, and that surprised me. I knew
by that - well, it took a few seconds - minutes - time -
I don't know - that I was below 15, 000 feet, so I took my
face plate off, and my estimation was that I was above
10, 000 feet, but I have no idea of the exact altitude, but
it was high - it took several minutes to get to the ground.
I saw some wreckage of the airplane coming down as I
was coming down in the chute. I thought it was a small
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piece but later on I got to thinking about it and it could
have been even a whole wing or something, but it was a
flat piece, but depending on the distance away - the size -
it looked pretty small to me. So, if it was - say a wing
it was a long way away, if it was a smaller piece it was
closer to me, but I have no way of knowing how far it was
or what it was. It was floating down like a leaf, flopping
and turning very slowly. I think that's the only part of the
airplane I saw. I never did see where the part I got out of
went - I don't know how much was in that part - how much
of it was together, but then I got to thinking I had to do
something, and I started trying to think of what I had.
I reached around for my seat pack and I couldn't find it.
I thought I had lost it, but later on I found out that I
hadn't lost it - it was still on, but I think maybe the
straps that hold it to the parachute had slipped out and
were letting it hang too far down but I couldn't feel it
underneath me where it should be. I don't remember
feeling it against my legs or anything. I can't be too
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sure that it was with me, but I know that the people
who picked me up on the ground also had that thing,
and it didn't look as if it had hit the ground hard,
so I assumed that it was still on the chute. Now, maybe
things banging against my legs all the time - but I didn't
feel it and I thought it was gone. I started thinking what
I had on me. I remembered that I had a map with escape -
not escape routes but showing routes to - in a southern
part of my course, showing routes from there to Turkey,
Dints
to Iran, from various/p~iiW along my course in case
something happened and I had to come back out this way.
So, I took that out, tore it up into small pieces and jus t
threw it out in the air. There was this coin - I thought
of that. I reached in my pocket - I took my gloves off 0
reached in my pocket, got the coin out, unscrewed the
ring that the - that the chain is usually attached to -
you know how one of these coins are made to hang on a
chain - it has a little loop in the top - well, that screwed
out, and I poured the needle out in my hand and threw the
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coin away and put the needle in, I think, the right pocket
of my flying suit. I'm pretty sure it was. I kept looking
around - I was - I didn't have any idea - I kept drifting
seemed like one way and the other - I couldn't tell where
I was going. Maybe it was just my imagination, but I
think there was wind shift in the area - I don't know.
Interr: This was just the pin with the sheath, the scabbard -
Powers: Yes, the sheath and the pin,
Interr: Yes, you got rid of the coin?
Powers: I got rid of the coin, and I dropped the pin in my pocket.
I don't know - I just assumed that the coin was much too
obvious and I couldn't keep it but maybe just a pin in the
pocket would be less noticeable. I couldn't tell where I
was going to hit. I couldn't tell - it seemed very thinly
populated country down there as near as I could tell.
There was some woods - patches of woods in several
places and a fairly big woods in one direction from me
and I tried to drift over to it and did manage to get in
that direction but not far enough because it seemed like
I would head that way for a while and then go back the
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other way. There was some lakes there in the area.
I saw a dam - I remember that - as I was coming down
in the parachute, well, when I got down closer to the
ground I could see about where I was going to hit and
it wasn't a very favorable position. It was about 50 to
100 yards from a village - not a very large village - I
gues s 10, 20 hous es - I don't know how many hous es
but a populated area. There was some telephone or
high tens ion lines or power lines or something running
through the field I hit in and either a river or a creek.
I missed the power lines by several feet - I don't how
much - fairly close to them, but not in any danger of
hitting them I saw, but I landed about 25 or 30 feet
from two men. One of them was driving a tractor, the
other was on the ground and it looked to me as if they
hadn't seen me. As I was watching them they were going
about their bus iness. But as I was coming down I noticed
a car coming down the road to this village and I was - we
were both approaching this area at the same time. I was
getting closer to the ground and he got to the village. I
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saw him turn to the left - came out to the edge of the
village - two men got out and ran toward the area I was
going to hit in. I hit the ground, fell, the chute was still
billowing out some and I releas ed the strap on the shoulder,
collaps ed the chute - one of the men there at the tractor
had come over and had run out to the parachute to grab it
to help collapse it, but I got this before he got to it and
the strap went off and the chute collaps ed. The other man -
I don't know whether it was the other one from the tractor
or one of the two from the car - came over and helped me
up. I don't know whether they knew who, what, or anything,
but there was no hostility, no nothing. One grabbed - was
going to help collapse the chute - the other helped to pick
me up. By the time I got on my feet and looked around
there was at least 30 school children and a lot of grownups
coming and - all around. They helped me take off my
helmet - tried to talk to me - wouldn't say anything - tried
to get the helmet off, and they helped me take it off and
they kept trying to talk to me and I kept shaking my head.
One of them - I had a - had a gun - pistol - with the silencer
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and one of them got that. I also had a hunting knife on
the parachute - I don't know whether it was the same one
or another one took that away. Lets see - all this time
I was trying to get out of my chute harness - I took the
helmet off first and then got out of the chute harness -
I don't remember - maybe - yes - because he got the
knife from the chute harness while it was onto me, so -
well I don't know just how it went right there -
Interr: I think we will take a short recess.. We are now
approaching the end of Tape 1 at 14 - at 1614 hours,
13 February 1962.
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