NIXON TACKLES THE STATE DEPARTMENT

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• Collection: General CIA Records
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• Release Decision: RIFPUB
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• Document Page Count: 46
• Document Creation Date: December 9, 2016
• Document Release Date: June 7, 2001
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: January 29, 1973
• Content Type: NSPR

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nuEni but
NEWS, VIEWS
and ISSUES
INTERNAL USE ONLY
This publication contains clippings from the
domestic and foreign press for YOUR
BACKGROUND INFORMATION. Further use
of selected items would rarely be advisable.
No,, 28
2 FEBRUARY' 1973
Governmental Affairs
0 0 3
CONn ENMAL
? Page
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4
G
overnmen airs
.3. MAWS & WORLD RFP.ORT, ion. 29, 1913
NIXON TACKLES
THE STATE DEPARTMENT.
.. , . ?
pr--i Casey is expected to workclosely* *
with:.: femrrient the State Department is .under:
1 diplomatic problems of the 1970S M
1.- orders to hold down .spending. ? ,
If the President's idea ? -0'
,Vails, the State Department is S Dwindling recruitment. In keeping:
Secretary of the Treasury George P. 1
House role as overseer Of economic af-1 'with instruttions to economize, only 82';
: of the more than 10,000 persons who;
- : i Shultz, who. is functioning in a White
in for big -changes. But it's al
aspect of' i` took the examinations for jobs as Foreign,'
..reMOdeling job that other Preik fairs,. both domestic and international. *
;*
. the State Department reshuffle is action? 1 sioned-far from enough to balance theService officers in 1972 were commis;
?
?*.clenis have found frustrating. '..1- .. Empha!is On youth. One asp
.
ordered , by the President?to promote estimated 200 who retired or resigned.:!::
yoUnger officers- in th
Now being set in motion is:a complex:* ' In 1962, the Foreign Service had,1,104::,
"
, e Foreign Service ,
,tn,positions where greater use earl be. : junior officers; in 1972, only 523. :
undertaking to which President Nixon is made "of their talents, energies and!
, , ideas. A White House official reports: I .. Heavier work load. While manpower'',
giving high Priority as he starts his see:t:
ond term: overhaul of the unwieldY. : "The President feels 'that there are -}ms gone down,. responsibilities have in, creased,
,now in the Foreign Service a number of ; sed, officials say. The great, upsurge',
Department of State to make: it more, '
responsive to his' own 'objectives and,
i "qualified people in ? the 30-to-40 age in foreign travel by Americans and the,
desires. , : ' : ' '? flow of Ameriean investment overseai. .
. It's a familiar goal, sought by many' bracket doing routine jobs, and he wants, I are just: pelt of the picture. New prob...
Presidents' in the past. And if history is: _, r., .
to give 'them an Opportunity, to ,move 1 lems are demanding attention?the in-
any guide, it will be elusive.: , e. t 'national drive against the traffic in'
The extensive shake-up which Mr.! ' To make room, some older Officers of : : narcotics, outbreaks of terrorism, the.
di e Foreign Service will be transferred ; menace of skyjacking, for example.
:Nixon '?
has ordered is the fourteenth Also, officials note that the State De-
ef-
fort since World War II to reshape the, . . :"
to other areas of Government.
'sprawling Department whose bureaucrit.. Besides the "housecleaning" pressure partment is called upon to supply . a
-cy john F. Kennedy Wee likened to a: 'being exerted from the White House, , "constant stream" of detailed studies,
"bowl of jelly." , ; ;internal reform?launched three years ago I'and other data to the staff of the Na-:.
This move is in line With the mei , by William B. Macomber, Deputy Under banal Security Council, headed by
',Executive's determination to tighten the Secretary for Management?is being Henry A. Kissinger, the President's As-:
.
, White H . 1-louse grip on the whole structure f accelerated. . ! sistant for National Security Affairs. '
;of federal operations. : :. The reform program ? is designed to ! Among State Department profession-:
;
A new team of men described as "in,* put added emphasis on teamwork, to: ,I als, hope is expressed that the shake-up ,
.novators and activists" was assigned to, make better use of brain power, to in.: !ordered by Mr. Nixon and the Depart-
,I
; take over at the State Department at a; crease opportunities for younger officials ment's own program of reforms will'
level just below Secretary William P.. to let their voices be heard and to have , enable it to regain some of the prestige
Rogers. Members of this group are: , , a say in decision making. it' lost to Mr. Kissinger during the first
?to Kenneth Rush, Under Secretary of' A main ,goal of the changes is the Nixon term. ,
'State: Mr. Rush, who has served as Am- bolstering of State Department morale, It Is generally conceded that Mr..
bassador to West Germany and as Dep-which insiders characterize as "shaky." ' Kissingir was in a better position. than
uty Secretary of Defense, is an old and Among reasons cited: . ' 'the State Department to help the Prest;::
,
trusted friend of the President's. He Shrinkage. Although the, State De- ! dent make important breakthroughs?such-
't'aught' at the Duke University law: partment is listed as having in excess of : as his summit trips to Peking and Mos-'
35,000 emPloYes, this encompasses about :cow and the secret talks on a Vietnam'
'school when Mi. Nixon was a student '
- 11,500:: persons , with .the Agency for truce.
, there 35 years ago. AsSociates regard- . .
him as a foreeftil , administrator, who
International Development (AID) and ? For one thing, the secrecy which Mr.'
'
:I
knows What Mr. Nixon wants and how'
10,500 foreign nationals in jobs overseas. , ' Kissinger needed would have , been dif-
Over all, the total of American citizens I ficult to assure had the ,State Depart-.,
to achieve it. :. :' ? ,
? William n J. Porter, Under Secretary ' . on the regular State Department payroll ; t ment been handling the supersensitive .
including communicators, technicians, ; :negotiations. :
ler Political Affairs. A career diplomat : ? ? -
: for more than three decades, former clerical workers and other nonprofession-.
As a former Secretary of State, Dean
Deputy Ambassador to South Vietnam : els?fell from. 13,800 in 1962 to 12,100 Rusk, remarked: "We have 'to resign
and former Ambassador to South Korea,: in 1972. Between 1962 and 1972, the ourselves to the fact that' we Work in a ' ?
.-Mr. Porter is said to have mien the Pres- ? number of. Foreign Service 'officers, Government that doesn't know how tor
ident's high esteem by the way he han- ' 'dropped from 3,760 to 3,190. . !
:keep Its mouth shut." ,
deed his job as chief U. S. delegate ta' ? Fewer posts. Although 22 additional: , .
Spadework voitinieert. Be that as
the Paris peace talks on Vietnam. -
; : 'American embassies were ,. setup be, it may, the feeling at the State Depart41!
:
.* William J. Casey; Under Secretary tween 1962 and 1072?because of the
i
, tnent is that because the breakthroughs ,' -
s or Economic Affairs: Mr. Casey, a New' ?emergence of new Countries?the total I have been made, the time has come for'.''
York lawyer and a World War II offi-, - number of U. S. diplomatic offices abroad the White House to call upon experts!!'
;e'er,: in the Office of :Strategic :Services,; 'declined from 276 to 248. Many consul- : in the eateer Foreign Service 'to dol
1,was brought to Washington by. Mr. Nix- ' !etes?inclUding such to,
'of-', more sof the spadework needed :to dn..; i.
i
on in 1971 as Chairman of the Securities flees as those in Templed:and Veraeruz? large Upon diploitiat lc: initiatives. :*
:And Exchange commissidn. Ile is cred-," Mexico, and Glasgow, Scotland?were ' , Some professionals contend that pre- i
: Red with having 'instituted a number of :shut down to save money. matiire optiniisin last October about a!
significant changes in operations of the;' ,Latest figures on th S. missions abroad : Vietnam agieement' Might have been!, '';',
,
!LSEC and is known in capital officialdom; 'are:. 126 embassies, 68 conk:dates gen- . avoided if ,Foreign Service specialists'
! as the kind of "doer" that Richard Nixd oral, 45 consulates. Also there are 9.mis- , had been- advising Mr. Kissinger on a r,
on prefers. . : 7: ' . '; ,." sions to the United Nations and other . . closer basis. ; :" ' ' .,
'';? Mr. 0,aseY's job:4t the State Depart:1? : international organizations. . ,; . i said one (newt.
, merit has,just. been created. It reflectif . : Rising costs. Even with fewer Atheri- i : "There is , resentment--justifted or not:
the AdtnAnistration's 'conviction that Oen- . tans in State Departinent jobs, the De- ' . ?among Foreign Service officers. who;
.nomie.issnes are replacing military seen.; . pertinent's budget rose front 408 million . feel that for the hied part they. have ,
rity ' and,,,:defetise alliances as the main dollars, to an estimated 600 Million :this heeti cut nut Of the main iction during
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the last four years."
Within the , ? Department, ? there has
. been -Criticism of Secretary -Rogers.
knoWledgeable source commented': ?
"negers.:does his best.' work, behind
the scenes-and ? telli.? *few at the Depart-'
ment what. be is, doing. The Secretary. -Is
part of the top strategy conferences,
? 'along with the' President ? and !Henry
Kissinger, but he doesn't talk about ?his
role, doesn't put his best loot ? ferward
in public. ? . - ?
. "This has an . adverse effect on the'
great' bulk' of the Foreign Service. Net. ??,?
aware of, what Mr. Rogers is doing, ? .
? many career people. fear that the 'service
tin, which they have staked' their futures t,
IS being-dpwngraded,"
Rogers?no "headlines," 'Another H.:
; -
;comment , from an insider:-
"For most of the Foreign Service- pro-
the sittiatinn looks bleak. .Kis-
'singer, hot lingers, gets the headlines..i
? !Kissinger, :not Rogers, sat in' on the .!
,President's talks with Mao Tse-tung andl,. ?????:,
Lennid Brezhnev. Kissinger,. net Rogers,l, :
;dealt- with Hanoi. All' of this--Contrib,
.1,
? .tites tothe morale ivoblem.? , , . :
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Officials say that as new Vitality is ? -
,'sotight, one of the toughest tasks is to
persuade other agencies of the Govern-
moot. that the role of leadership In
:eign affaiis - properly' belongs- to the'
;State Department. ? - ?
It's pointed out that 'over the years
!increased activity abroad has been?under-?
:taken by the Defense,' Treasury and
Cirritueree Departments, .the Central' In,
tellipince :Agency; AID and. the ,1.1. S.
Information Service.
' The -core of that issue. is that 'existing,
law specifically gives. these agencies cer-
hitt responSibilities. overseas. 'Beyond
?
that; the ? State Department does not
have, the' manpower and- resources to
. take over,the jobs that others are doing.
; Fresh ,approoches? Despite, all the
difficulties with which- the Department
is cotifronted, some key officials express
'confidence that fresh approaches will
; pay off in enhanced prestige.
! One such change- is the shift in em-
phasis from old-fashioned, orthodox diplo-
macy tointernational trade and monetary
Issues' that the Department is bracing
itself to meet around the world. .,
In, this connection, an effort is being
made to recruit young Foreign Service
officers trained in economics. Alco, a
number of officers whose experience has
been limited chiefly to diplomatic roll-
line- are being sent to study economics
AtLgraduate schools or at a special cram
.course conducted by the Foreign Service
;Institute.
. State' Department officials are -con-
cerned about the loss of mine young
Foreign Service officers who have de-
cided that their talents can- be ? put to
better .use elsewhere. For example, 14
have resigned in the last two years to
accept jobs on Capitol Hill: But officials
Nay that only two have quit in protest
against policy. In both, cases, the U. S.
role in Vietnam was the issue.
Concern about the Morale of younger ;
Foreign :Service officers has.' resulted in ,
' such steps as these:
"Open forum" meetings are held reg-
ularly, at,,which officers, exchange 'ideas-
and..complaints. Approved toggestions*,
or etnripNints are sent directly to .the't
'?AMERICAN EMPLOYES 12,100 at latest Count,: own from 13,80
, a decade 'agtx,, , .; :,? .:.,, ? ? .: .? - - .,: ? ,,,
'OREIGN SERVICE OFFICERS - 3,190,down 570 from the en
1962.. Average age Of this force Of. American, professionals-is:risk
..
ing. OnlY 15 per 'cent ore in startingrgrades now, Compared cvit,
530 Per cent 10 yearsago:" 25 per Cent are in top grade's, up from
'r19 per cent. in 1963:- , ,, :. ?: . ?
'DIPLOMATIG,, OFFICES: 248 embassies, consulates and triliki
around the world, : Compared with 276 a decade earlier. _
SPENDING: An estimated tdp . million dollars this year, , Up from
p408 'million In 1961,- largely because of inflation..
FOREIGN AID:' 8.3 billion dollars of economic and financial as,
i'sistance is going to 86 countries this year, down from 4 billion to
9.8.]::countriesrin1963
,?! ,,.- ...,..:.. ,..., .....,.L.,:.,,,L.,
'Secretary, who answers all of theta, at, selves more olivionsly- useful t
cepting several ideas and explaining why I, ' White Bouse.4
others are rejected. ; In' the worth, of Nfr. Macomberj him-
Ambassadorial. conferoveek are s bed=
,
tiled, periodically. On these occasions,
chiefs of mission meet With younger: of-
ficers, whose immediate supervisoils are
not present and who are encottrag'ed to
As explained by ow aide to; D Ipttly
1
speak out frankly. Both- policy ;an I ad,
ministration, are discussed,.
Under Secretary Nlacomber; the evrrent
concept in the State Department il dna:
: "The Department. tan* - obl ge a
President- to put. it to. greater' iis --hitt
can improve itself entaigh to 'shot -hitt
that we are capable of doing rt job bet-
ter' than anyone else-better this t we
have -in- the past. We ei_ttst_makti_ mit
; - self, lead6r1hip mean only be eons d by..
competence." The Deputy, Uncle' Sec-
retary warned: that Unless the D !part-
ment makes itself capable Of takit g the
)1
lead in handling foreign affairs; "this
. ? will be done . for us" by somebod else,
? . During Mr. Nixon's first terin .t mum.
, tie- developments in foreign pnlicj were
centered in the White House, Adel*
Seemingly. paid scant attention the
State Department's machinery. . ?
Now, the President is stressing that:
?he wants that machinery remodelet
As the remodeling gets under
? ? many in Washington are mindful
?
frustrations experienced by past-
,
dents who wanted the same thing.
?-? - - - - -
NEW YORK' TINES !
28 January 1973
ESPIONAGE CHARGE
DENIED BY WILSON
LONDON, Jan. 27 (AP)?
Former Prime Minister Harold
Wilson denied today a report
that he hid an American spy in
his residence outside London
'where he met with Soviet Pre-
mier Alexei N. Kosygin in 1967
for secret talks on Vietnam.
Mr. Wilson also denied that
a United States agent was
given drafts Of documents that
he drew up before the talks or
a transcript of a telephdhe call
between- Mr. Kosygin and
Leonid t. Brezhnev, the Soviet
Communist party chief, that
British intelligence had alleg-
edly tapped.
The charges which were
made by Brig. Gen. Paul Gor-
man in testimony yesterday at
the Pentagon papers trial in Los
Angeles. were 'a totally tom-
red version" of whit took
place, Mr. Wilson contended.
' He denied that British agents
had tapped a telephone conver-
sation between Mr. Kosygin
and Mr. Brezhnev. '
General Gorman said a
United States agent, named
Chester Cooper, had lived at 10
Downing Streett the official
residence of British prime min-
isters, so that he could work-
with Mr. Wilson as he prepared
for the meeting with Mr. Kosy-
gin.
The general said that the
agent later hid in What he
described as a "garret prison
room" at Chequers when the,
two leaders met. There was no
indication whether. the agent,
was able to hear what they dis-
?
cussed.,
Mr. Wilson said that Mr.,
Cooper, whom he described as
the President's special repre-
sentative, was not in a position
to know what he and Mr, Kosy-,
gin said. =
. The cloak-and-dagger story
-Was reported in four previously,
unpublished Pentagon Taper*
that dealt with British-Amen-
can links. ,4
Mr: Wilson said In a statei
ment: "There is also a suggesv
tion that Mr. Kosygin was uni;?
aware that I was in touch with.
the White House. They are it ?
totally incorrect version, at,
what happened. There was no
spy at Clfequers."
Mr. Wilson said he had been"
in 'touch with the White House
'about the Chequers talks be--
fore he met Mr. Kosygin
cause of the possibility of
tending a Vietnam cease-fire:
then in effect: ?
"In View of the urgency And
ithe time factor; Mr. Coopet
was at Chequers specifiiallY
:keep in tired telephone -touch,
,with the White House so that
II could communicate to Mr;
;Icbsygin any decision the Pit 9;?:,
ident. made," Mr. Wilson .sail'
But, he"stressed, Mr. C.00
;did not eavesdrop on the t
[between himself and Mr. Kosy
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RADIO TV REPORTS. INC.
4435 WIESCONEN AVE. NW.. WASHINGTON. 0. C. 20018. 244-3E40
PROGRAM Firing Line STATION WETA TV
NET Network
' DATE 'January 21 1971 10:00 P.M.c". .Washington, b C
FULL TEXT
WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY: Last Sunday, Senator Edward Kennedy [
proposed in the New York Times that President Nixon, having, .
after all, gone to China ancfreestablished informal relations
.there, there is oo purpose left to be served in continuing to
ostracize Cuba, 'Mr.. Kennedy's. point struck many people as logical-
ly compelling as we see the ongoing collapse of commitments
and alliances annealed by the. spirit of resistance.to communism
a generation 'Ago: Among greater and lesser casualties of that,
,.dissolution is the Central Intelligence Agency, whO/se'organizing
bias, if you will, was the postwar decision to let communism
move no further.
To discuss these points'xwe have two guests. Mr. Mario
Lazo became an American citizen only a few days ago, though
he has lived half his life here, he other half in Cuba. He
.:was among the two or three best known lawyers in Havana, the
founder of a huge firm well-known among other things for its
philanthropic activities. He leg, Cuba after the Bay of Pigs
and published a year or so ago a Ofinitive account of the failure
of the move to liberate Cuba,."Da0ger In The Heart."
Howard Bunt was intimately involved as an official
in the CIA in the*Bay of Pigs. Indeed, the New York Times named.
him as the principal CIA official directly involved in that
venture. He is a graduate of BroMn University, who was a war
correspondent for Life magazine, A freelance writer who has .
published, forty-two books, most of them Spy novels. On retireMent.
from the CIA after twenty years of duty, he did freelance work
as a White House consultant and last June was arrested in connect-.
.ion with the Watergate case, Last Monday he pleaded guilty
before federal court and the sentencing is yet to come, The
-presiding judge and Mr. Hunt's own lawyer have forbidden him
to speak about Watergate. But his involvement there has not,
pretumably, diminished his knowledge Of the CIA' and Cuba and .
:his special qualifications, born of long experience to discuss.
Hthe CIA and foreign policy.
The lawyers from Washington have only just now advised,
us that we may not submit to questioning as usual by the panel,
to whom I apologize.
I should like to begin by asking Mr. Hunt whether
his public identification as a long-time CIA official confers
upon him now the right, if only in self-defense, to describe
with appropriate discretion some of the activities of the CIA,
particularly as they relate to Cuba.
E. HOWARD HUNT: I believe that it does, Mr. Buckley.!
After all, it was not 1 who identified myself as a former employee,
officer, or official of the Central Intelligence Agency. That
Information tame from the government itself, And I considered";
It then, and I consider it now, a unilateral abrogation by the
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:government of the commitment that* we entered into upon My retiremen
'.from the Central Intelligence Agency. ?
BUCKLEY: Your point is that -- that when you were:
Harrested somebody in the government...
HUNT: Max I
BUCKLEY:
HUNT: I was
the appropriate ttme.
BUCKLEY: Uh-huh.
interject? I,was never arrested.
When you were what? Detained?
I surrendered ? to U.S. authoriti
HUNT: But I was never at any time arrested.
. BUCKLEY: Well, was them-- had that Was
that point a warrant for your arrest? '
HUNT: NO warrant was ever issued forli
BUCKLEY: No. UhLhun.
HUNT:, I was never a fugitive.
BUCKLEY: Yes. But - but -- at that at that Point?,
understand it, the fact of your having been associated.
CIA was for the first time publiclY-ventilated?-
HUNT: That is correct, yes.
BUCKLEY: Yes. Now, does -- does this mean that you'...
you can speak about yourself as having been a member of the
CIA with.moral.impugnity, or does it mean that you can go further
In that.-- than that and describessome of the activities of ,
CIA in Cuba and some of the forecasts for CIA in the current
mood of detente?
'?HUNT: I feel that I'm.able.to do. that, yes.\
\
BUCKLEY: Okay. Well, then,let:.me ask you a.direct.
question. The,.CIA is.not permitted, as,I understand .it to.
engage, In domestic activity. Right?
HUNT: Right.
1. BUCKLEY: NOW, does that.mean-that nobody has any,
Irtght.to..suipeCt.that -- that the-Watergate.businesswas a CIA'.
Hoperation?.
HUNT: No. That..-- perhaps IL shouldnt have answered
.your earliqr.question as deftnitively as-I.dtd.. It is.known,
.1 for, example, that the CIA atone.tiMe.,was involved in domestic-
Mierationt. And I cite the discovery, the disclosure, of... ?
BUCKLEY: The NSA business?
HUNT: ...CIA support of the National Student Association
That was a domestic operation.
BUCKLEY: But for purposes of foreign travel wasn't
it?
HUNT: Not solely, no. They recruited:American students
. campuses for work in this country which led eventually
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to work abroad.
BUCKLEY: Well, what -- what about the Suspicion,
that' has been widely ventilated, that experience, especially
I.lifelong experience, with the CIA teaches a person to forget
.about the legal impediments that lie between him and the accomplish.
lment.of a mission that he seeks to -. to achieve? In -- in
ithe grownup world, as I understand it, everybody recognizes
Ithat it is illegal for a CIA 'operative to -- to -- to work in
Cuba and it's illegal for a Cuban operative to work in the United '
States' but they both do'it.
HUNT: Yes.
.1
, ? ' BUCKLEY: Now, Under the circumstances, I g0ess the?H.,,
question .I'm asking is, if,ank Spends_twenty- years working for i:',
,
:
the CIA, is it likely that on returning to one's own country;,
one has so?much absorbed the ethos of the CIA that one tends
to-voaf,*,ter_what,it_is ?tha'[tHone,wants?and to consider local
legislatiOn'that-standS in the Way as sort of irrelevant?
4
;
HUNT: If one even were to consider
- It would not be illegal under United States law, fordexample,
for CIA to mount an entry operation in Ottawa or -- or Fort
Erie, Canada, the other side of the Peace Bridge. But here '
we have a?geographical distinction.. We would not be guilty..
Under United States law of of, let's say, a. second-degree: 4
,burglary charge by the United States for an operation that we
.conducted in Canada, or in Mexico; we would be were'it conducted
In Florida. or Texas or SouthernCalifornia.
BUCKLEY: Well, I -- I wish to...
HUNT: Am I answering...
BUCKLEY: Yes, you are. And I wish to be Very'explici
about it. I want to abide by the -- the ground rules and not
not try to -- any sneak punches. But I guess what I'm -- what 1
I'm asking is, is -. is it fair to say, without violating our
understanding, that in approaching the Watergate business you
and your associates approached it in the spirit of a CIA operati
may
CIA
the
HUNT: Yes.
BUCKLEY: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Now, Mr. Lazo, may I
.-
I .ask you this: at -- at what point did you 'Understand the
to be engaged in an operation the objective of which was
deposition of Castro?
n?'
MARIO LAZO: At what point did I...
BUCKLEY: Yes.
J. LAZO: ...understand the CIA to be...
BUCKLEY: Historically at what point, yes.
LAZO: ,..engaged in what/
BUCKLEY: In an operation the objective of which was
the deposition of Castro?
LAZO: Well, I would say that goes back to the Bay
of Pigs.
BUCKLEY: Surely not -- not before then? You didn't
_
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din
know the CIA wanted to oust Castro until the Bay
;the Marines landed?
LAZO: No, I think that was the first time that I
remember. You had something else in. mind? If you ask me, I'll
be glad to answer you.
BUCKLEY: Well, you -- you -- you were living i
as a Cuban citizen.
LAZO: That s right.
BUCKLEY: And you were - as I understand it, you.
were helping out agents of a foreign country, including indirectly
Mr. Hunt, who were pursuing the orders of the President of the
United States. I'm asking you did you know what those orders
were.
LAZO: Well, Mr. Buckley, look We worked, my partner
and.'! worked, for many years with the CIA and the FBI. Anything
we could dO to help them wt -- we did.
BUCKLEY: Was this in violation of Cuban law?
LAZO: No, No this,;.:.
.BUCKLEY: It's okay to work with :a foreign...
LAZO: And, furthermore, the-- at that time there
was no country that was closer-to.the United States than Cuba,
BUCKLEY: But I'm talking about post-Castro, I'm not
,Pm,rizt talking about during pre-Castro. Were you working with
ithe CIA' OT the FBI after Castro came to power?' If -- if you
Idon't_want to answer, just say so. But -- if -- 1f you say
ithat you don't want. to' answer, I understand. But...
LAZO: No, no. I'm.-- I want to answer. But I'm --
the.-- I never worked professionally with either one. I worked
in -- we helped them' in every, way WR could, After Castro came
to power as 'a matter of fact, a year after Castro came to
power,. in January, 1960, When' the-American embassy went doWni-
I,bectme a.self-appointed.spy for .the U.S,
it?
BUCKLEY: That -- that surely was illegal, wasn't
LAZO:Sure it was illegal then. And by that time
IWe kneW where the country was heading; Castro had shown his
(colors. And what I did was to arrange with,a'friendly. European
igeyernment, to send reports once a week to the FBI in this country.
: II
,
BUCKLEY: Concerning,wbat?
' LAZO: Hmm?
BUCKLEY: Reports concerning what?'
LAZO: Reports of everything that was happening in
Cuba that.the United States should know. For instance, we repre en.
ted the railroads of Cuba and we had about thirty-five inspector
out and they were reporting from all over the country, and the
,headquarters, the main office, of the railroads was right under
our office, and they would give us reports all the": time and .
we would pass them to the American embassy.., My sympathies have
always been with the United States.
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Now, at I was saying, when the embassy Went down andr!
it seemed to me that the United States didn't ?have very good .
.sources of information anymore, then I would send reports once
,a week by a. courier, who would ? go from Havana. to New York to
the ? capital of this country in Europe and he would drop ,off
my reports;. that was to the FBI. Nobody asked me to do that.
Nobody ever thanked me for it. Nobody ever paid me:for it.
Udidn't:eXpect any thanks. *
'BUCKLEY: YOU you were.really a volunteer collectf
.LAZO: Yes, surely.
BUCKLEY: ...information. All right. All right, .
now, going back to Washington, I'd like to ask this of Mr. Hunt.
It is often-referred to, the Bay of Pigs, as -- as the ,greatest
Jiasco.in postwar American history. And -- and -- and reference
to it is usually used to inspire some sort of a -- a disdain
for CIA, Now, I'd like to ask you a two-part question. Number
one, was. it A failure of intelligence by CIA that resulted in
the fiasco? And number two, if it was more than that i if it
was a political failure in Washington, is it a reseentibility
of CIA to make recommendations with reference, to thelr anticipation-.
of the fortitude. in Washington?
HUNT:. Let me answer as follows. And I want to answer
as completely .and'responsively as I can. First, the fiasco .
Of the Bay of Pigs...
BUCKLEY: A little louder, please.
HUNT: The fiasco of the Bay of Pigs was not a failure
of intelligence. It was not a failure of intelligence collection
or of positive intelligence operations. The failure of the
Bay of Pigs came about because at a critical time commitments
that had been made by high officials of the United States govern-
ment to the Cubans who were fighting, to their leadership in
Miami and elsewhere, those officials backed away from those
commitments and, in effect, abandoned the brigade at the beachhead.
That was a political decision.
CIA never had any reason to believe that these commitments
would be abandoned. We had, after all, been recruiting the
Cubans, sending them to training camps in Guatamala for many,
many months. And these were the ground rules. First of all,
'there was the United States fleet offshore. The Boxer was the
flagship. Secondly; the -- the principal things that the --
thing that the Cubans were interested in was that they not
be opposed at the beachhead by Castro airpower. And this was
a definite commitment that was made. Now, this commitment was
made by the Eisenhower administration, in which now President
Nixon served as Vice President. And I believe he chaired the
'National Security Council in that capacity. So, in effect,
the commitment that was made to the Cubans, who went forward
and risked their lives, was nullified by a subsequent political
decision of the New Frontier.
BUCKLEY: Well, was there anything to lead you to
believe, between the inauguration of President Kennedy and the
:Bay of Pigs, that he had second thoughts about it?
HUNT: There was this. First of all, during the campaign.
:President Kennedy 'campaigned -- then Senator Kennedy 'campaigned
on a promise of help to the Cuban exiles. Pres -- Vice President
.Nixon, who was intimately involved with the operational planning
from his position In the National Security Council, could not
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' ? ? ? HUNT: The Ken -'- the Kennedy, argument that the .United
Sta tett should do something, to''':- help, overthrow ? Castro.
1.;;.,14..... #1-
BUCKLEY:. Why mould he 'want to refute itiph,,yOuY:f q'
,
; meaifv ..,. h couldn't say, ?.'?'Yes, -indeed 1,'.:,:?av,ree" with him. And i.11:?'
' fact ,it.te intend 1 co. " -., ' - . ;,-i'"1,; ?? ;:?."," -.,,':-. -, .-., -.. I- ,.::,- i!.!',:,',1,!-: il,-
_ II p, , , - 3, . . , , , :. ? .?., .... , ,,..
_
-*HUNT: ?"And in fact 'we?are.:,..se':dotng 9 Y
, , ,.s.
..-.. '
??-!. '2. it''
,
? , .
. :: ' 1 ? . 1:
. HUNT: . Evidently the ? political decision was made to
--
say nothing about it. ' So this was A plus', factor ,in the. Kennedy.
Nixovdebates, a plus factor for Kennedy.
. :
. ,
? 4 .
, .
.*'BUCKLEY: Did -- did..I
HUNT: Kennedy actually knew, of course, what we werel".:?
dotng4; ? , 1
? BUCKLEY: But he -Could appear to be more. hawkish than'
, ' ? ,
- ?? ?
AUNT: Yes... That's right. And Kennedy knew perfectly
Well What we were doing, because- he was receiving, as the .Dempo,t,
tic.'C'andidate, daily briefings. from CIA., And he was taking
Advantage of that knowledge. "
H: ?
k BUCKLEY: . Not daily briefings from DreW ,Pearson?,, ' ' '
[Laughs] Quite, conceivably..
, f ?
- BUCKLEY: Yes. .
? HUNT: ?...too. Again, to answer perhaps mote 'specific
ly to your question, shortly after the election and it was made
,known that Kennedy had -- had been elected, we were ordered.
to close down all recruiting and training activities for time
?for the time being. Everything was put into suspense. During
this period, Allen Dulles, Dick Bissell, some of the other princi
pal officers of CIA went down to the Kennedy Palm Beach compound
? and told him exactly what the situation was. In due course,
after about two or three weeks, the commitment was made: go
ahead, continue as before. ?
HUNT: To us that was perfectly understandable, that
an incoming President would want to review what his predecessors
had done.
' BUCKLEY: Uh-huh.
HUNT:There was no intimation from them, and certainly2
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no inference on our -- or our-pirt, thit there would be a drawing
away from the overall commitment, which was to overthrow Castro
and regain Cuba for the free world.
said...
BUCKLEY: Right. Now, the -- Senator Kennedy has
HUNT: Senator Edward Kennedy?
BUCKLEY: Yes. I'm sorry. Edward Kennedy has said
apropos of the situation that only only an armed invasion
would have pursuaded -- or, would have succeeded in causing
Castro to be overthrown. Now, I take it everybody agrees that
that was the case when Castro first took power. He -- he
he was very popular at that point. To what extent was the intelli.
gence reckoning about -- on the Bay of Pigs dependent on a view
of a transformed attitude towards Castro by the Cuban people?
Did you proceed -- and I'd like for Mr. Lazo also to comment
on this -- did you proceed on the assumption that people whose
mission it was to overthrow Castro would be universally welcomed?
HUNT: Not universally, no. But certainly4by a majority
of the Cuban people. This is not to say that we vAeWed the
the Cuban citizenry under Castro as a military asset to ourselves.
We viewed them as probably being responsive to early indications
of victory, and of overwhelming force that we intended to show.
Again, I should bring out that our -- that the New Frontier
did dilute our original plans. It was to be -- instead of an
armed airborne envelopment of the -- of the central city in
Cuba, this was minimized, apparently by Dean Rusk.
r ,I bring out a number of these points in a forthcoming,t
book which I've written on the subject called "Give Us This
Da and it's subtitled "CIA and the Bay Of Pigs InVasiOn."
BUCKLEY: And it detail it details ,these
,HUNT: It details these. changes,iyes4
,
BUCKLEY: In pl,.anning.:Uh.4uh...
'HUNT: ,That's correct,
01. BUCKLEY: ,Well Mr. Lazo, what -- what is your comment
then, about the.attitude.of the Cuban people in April of,
1161?
LAZO: I 'hope that you Won't think' that this
;digression, but may,' go bad( a little bit.... "
J.1!
BUCKLEY: Sure. Sure.
LAZO; '...and tell you about. my --;how I met Betnar
jarker,-Who is one of the group the Watergate group......
BUCKLEY:. Sure. .
,LAZO: ...and who was Very active n.th?ay-.
BUCKLEY: Sure.
LAZO: . May I, may I do that?
-BUCKLEY: ,Of course,
'LAZO: : It has aTheariho on:thit. Barker was brought
to my'office shorfter World War the milttarY.aW
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of the American embassy, i fellow named Colonel Buzz Grant.
'His problem was that he had done security work to protect Mrs-.
IrUman and Margaret Truman on a visit they had made to Cubadri
, BUCKLEY! AS -- as a Cuban citizen .Barker?
LAZO: He was an American citizen.
BUCKLEY! American citizen.
LAZO: But the Cuban -- the Cubans -- he spoke perfec
Spanish; he was born in Cuba, I believe. And the Cubans askee.
!him if he would head a group tot give the security, to the ?
;Mrs. Truman and Margaret Truman. He was glad to do that. That
!not done in the way that you would normally think. For instance
Ithey didn't -- he didn't -=-"they don't follow 'em around in
la patrol car or anything like that. The way they do that is
fthat they assign Cuban secret servicemen to the varioUs dives!
.'and places in Havana, which was a city of a million people, 0
1
1Wherp,ithe, underworld gathered.'
L 110
BUCKLEY: Uh-huh.
LAZO: These people are disguised. Sometimes they
feign intoxication, although the Cubans don't drink very much.
And they keep their eyes open and their ears open, and if theyti
Isee anything suspicious or hear anything, they follow 'em and. 1
they do plenty of bugging of telephones. And that goes on for
for a week or ten days.
Barker was the head of this Cuban group, you see.
But in taking this job he had signed a police form which was
'handed to him, Land it turned out that this police form contain!
'a -- an oath' of' allegiance to Cuba. And somebody heard about
that, some kid in the embassy, heard about it and reported it
to Washington, and then they took away his citizenship. And
Colonel Grant, when .he brought Barker to me, said, "Mario,"
,he said, "this fellow has had a wonderful war record, was a
;captain in the American Air Force. He was the first fellow
to volunteer from Cuba. He had something like twelve missions
over Germany. He was shot down. He was in prison there. And
I wish you'd help him. Everybody admires him." So of course
did help him. And that was arranged.
Now, the second thing that happened was a little *more
dramatic. This was in early 1960 after Castro had been in power
about a year. Barker came to me one time, distraught and nervou
;and his problem then was that he had had hiding in his house
one of his closest friends who had been doing counterrevolutionar
work and had been there a couple of weeks and finally had decided,
to make a move and got caught. And under the pressure of tortur
he'd confessed where he was. And Barker had wisely arranged ,
to call his wife every two hours from a pay station in Havana
.to a grocery store near their house in the suburbs. He had
,a daughter, a little girl by the name of Maria Elena, Helen,
,she was about ten years old. And they had one faithful servant.
tAnd he thought I could get him out because we represented '.a
couple of the American airlines. He's a very intelligent fellow
:But he was, as I say, distraught; he wasn't thinking very straight.
Of course to harbor a so-called "criminal" was a capital offense,
!too. So Barker was in danger of being killed.
So 4 tOld him exactly What you. woultifhave told him. .
-4 said, "Bernard-i.what you do novis.you Call up your wife and:
you tell her not to admit under any oircuOstance.s.tkat thit.. _
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fellow has been in your houie in -ilie-Tii-t?sfiriiitinths. \ He knows
what your house looks like, 'cause he's been there; but he hasn't
been there for six months. And tell that little girl of yours
to say the same thing and your servant to say the same thing,
and never deviate from that. And I'll do what I can to get
this boy to change his story before he dies."
So in those days they permitted one member of the
family to see somebody who was about to be executed. In this
case, it was this boy's Oster. A very attractive girl, about.--
Cuban girl, about twenty-five, typical Cuban girl with -- with
pale, pallid white skin, ebony black hair, flashing eyes, long
eyelashes', high spirited girl. And I went to see her and I
said, "Will you help my friend?" And she said, "Of course.
Your friend did everything he could to save my brother. Now
we have to try to save him." And I arranged for a launch to
go across the bay to Cabanios E?) Fortress to. see the execution.
And as the priest was moving away and the squad was getting
ready to fire, this fellow began screaming, in Spanish of course:
he said, "One more fhing. I want to say that I haven't been
in Bernard Barker's house in six months." And he kept on repeating
that until they shot him. But he was a very nice-looking fellow
. and they didn't want to shoot him. As a matter of fact, only
one bullet hit him. And he slumped down. Two men Went up and
lifted him and strapped him up on the post. And then the man
In charge of the squad told them that if they didn't shoot him
they would be courtmartialed, and they shot him; they killed
him.
And two days later we sprung Bernard Barker. Then
he came to my office and he said, "I want you to tell me what
I can do to help bring down the monster who murdered my best
friend." And I took him over to the American embassy and introduced
him to the CIA agent there. And that's the way he started working
for the CIA,
BUCKLEY: But let me ask you this then...
LAZO: Yes.
BUCKLEY: ...Mr. Lazo. Aren't --
a terminology that is justified by -- by a rather dangerous
use of the law?
aren't you using
LAZO: By what?
BUCKLEY: By a rather dangerous use of the law. ' I
lthoroughly sympathize with your and Barker's, let alone the
.,;dead man's, ambition'to remove Castro. But I don't understand,
ireally, that we -- that we can persuasively challenge the right
lof a country, however tyrannical its leader, to attempt to kill
Icounterrevolutionaries. It's -- if -- if -- if the ambition
kof -- of -- of Barker, or of Hunt, let's say, working in Cuba,
is to overthrow Castro, I should think if Castro finds out about
It he's got A ri?ht to shoot you. Now, that isn't murder.
.You as a lawyer would know that. It's not murder.
1 ? LAZO: Just a second. Just a second. I'm surprised.
.that a man of your intelligence should be talking the way you're
talking. Fidel Castro has killed -- murdered -- twenty-five
,thousand boys and men whose only. crime was that they clung to .
their democratic ideals; they were against communism.
BUCKLEY: No,'I I'm on your side, and ,I hope they
'win; but I say if they get caught at it, they're going to be
,executed and this isn't...
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LAZO: That's right.
BUCKLEY:? ...this isn't murder under any law I know.
LAZO: If they get caught at .I they get executed.,
BUCKLEY: If - if King George had caught George WaShin
have hung him.
LAZO: Yes.
BUCKLEY: And this --? this - this wouldI have been
something that you and I would have regretted...
LAZO: Sure.
BUCKLEY: ..but it is not something that would have
illegal under any known code.
LAZO: No,'I'm not saying...
'HUNT: May I suggest ma I suggest....
LAZO: Excuse me Jost a second. If you'd livin?
In George Washington's time you would . have done eyerthinq,Posib,
help him escape.
HUNT: Isn't thi,diStinction.
BUCKLEY:
Akz.01 , Well, that's what I did.
HUNT: May I suggest this?. that -- that King'
i,King George was a constitutional monarch, or at least he was
it Tempi-zed monarchl he overthrew nobody to achieve his Position
Ati. Great Britain. Castro, On the:other hand...
!!.
BUCKLEY: In the first place, his. ancestors did.
jIn the second place Castro was recognized at the time mere
.1talking about by every country in the worldijncluding_theliAtte
IStates.,.
HUNT: That's correct.
BUCKLEY: ....as. the legitimate. leader...
. HUNT: However, a.large segment.of,the Cuban.populatio
did not recognize him as their leader.
BUCKLEY: No, but that's -- that's their risk. You
Hyou can always appeal sub specie etermitatis and say, ".Sit terapd
tyrannisa and try to put a bullet hole in the tyrant's heart,.
and I hope that the aim is Sure, But I think. that Mr. Lazo
is confusing people by using the terminology of "murdered,"
1"so-called 'criminal'" he wasn't a-to..,taltedcrimitial,
he was a criminal...
LAZO: They don t consider...
BUCKLEY: ...by Cuban law.
LAZO: ...it murder. The Cubans don't consider I
BUCKLEY: I ,know. I khoW.
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LAZO: Yes.
BUCKLEY: Because...
LAZO: They have one rule of morality: anything that
advances the conquest of the world by the communist empire is
good. You can lie, you can steal, you can kill. Killing is
not murder to them; it's a good thing. It's not what we consider
murder; I go along with you on that. Anything that hinders
them is bad. That's the only...
BUCKLEY: I agree with you. But, look', if you --
if you had taken the case of the man who you saw executed to
the International Council of Jurists, you could not have made
a case that they would have heard...'
LAZO: No.
BUCKLEY: ...because if -- if in fact he was engaged,
and you have volunteered the information that he was -- engaged
in counterrevolutionary activity and the crime for that was
capital and he received a capital sentence, that -7 tliat's...
LAZO: I'm not talking about legal technAogy -- tech --
details. I'm talking about the fact that Castro has murdered,
in my opinion, twenty-five thousand men and boys whose only
crime was that they clung to their democratic ideals -- taught
by the United States, don't forget that. And if you had a --
a Castro in charge the head -- chief of state of this country,
relatively and in proportion to population he would have killed
five hundred and sixty-five thousand Americans. And that's
just ?the 'tilling. Now, how 'bout the people in prison, the
political prisoners?
BUCKLEY: Yes, if you -- look, let's not waste any
time in your trying to persuade me that Castro is an evil man,
because I agree with you. I think he's probably as thorough
a tyrant as the twentieth century has -- has produced, as --
? as thorough in his own scale. But we're talking about something
else. We're talking about the United States, its intelligence
arm, the risks it takes, the bearing of an experience in that
kind of affair on domestic life. And it may very well be that
somebody like Barker -- it's easier to talk about Barker than
about Howard Hunt because we're talking about somebody who isn't'
here -- it may be that Barker is totally seized, as the result
of his experience in Cuba...
LAZO: Totally what?
BUCKLEY: Totally seized'-- with a single objective.
And that single objective isto do what,he canlorliberty :a
fhe ; understands it, - ;
Yl' 0LAZO: And for the United States.
BUCKLEY:, Right.
LAZO: And against the communists, yes.
BUCKLEY: Right. Yes, but in -- but in the course of:.
'applying that kind of license to activities he tripped againstH1
an American law and as a result of that has pleaded guilty..,'
Now, what is your attitude towards Barker... 't .1?
't
LAZO: Well, let's say -- you're coming to L.
gate now, right? You want me to speak about the...
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, BUCKLEY: Well, can he ahd, 4, speak' aboUC.Watergate
14iih,aut Violating our code? , im'fii ? . I., -. - ,,;.'
t'l . ? . ,,T s, i':.
HUNT: I:would think so. But may -; Just'
BUCKLEY:. Sure.
HUNT: ...a step before you .do
BUCKLEY: Sure.
HUNT: You had asked me about the failure of intelligen
whether or not CIA had expected a popular uprising, in effect
BUCKLEY: Yes.
HUNT: Or whether the administration had. I have
a list. here of four recommendations that I made well before
I joined the project, based on my personal assessment of the
situation in Cuba. Now, I made this in 1959, and I will list,
them. .
The first recommendation I made was (inaudike due
to network technical difficulty] to destroy the Cuban radio ,
and television transmitters before or coincident with the Cubani-
The third was to destroy the island's microwave relay System
just before the invasion begins. And the fourth: discard any,
thought of a popular uprising against Castro until the issue
has aleeady been militarily decided.
r BUCKLEY: And your point is -- what/ That history
beaesl you out? '
HUNT: ' My point is simply that we did not at any time
expedt a popular uprising. We expected acceptance of our troops
BUCKLEY: Well,, this was 1959. Castro was still pOpitl
wasn't he? '
HUNT: , He was still popular, yes.
BUCKLEY: But he was dramatically less popular
HUNT: In ?'61, yes.
LAZO: May I speak about...
BUCKLEY: Yes.
LAZO: ...the Watergate and Bernard Barker, and my
Miami friends and -- to understand Watergate, you've got to
understand, in the first place, the Bay of Pigs. We've been
talking about that. And you've- got to understand the conditions
in Cuba at the time of the electton here in order to understand '
why these 'people went into the'--' went into Watergate. And
I want. to just -- let me go back to the Bay Of Pigs. just for
a second.
The Bay of Pigs'wS% a struggle that took place, in
Washington, not in Cuba. It was a struggle between the liberal
presidential advisers on the one hand and the conservative CIA
and the Pentagon on the other. In between these two broups
was the new President, who had never been accused of lacking
either intelligence or courage, but he sided' with his liberal
advisers. And the key point in this invasion was the destructio
of Castro's tiny- aieforce on the ground before the, Invaders
. ,
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hit the beaches. This was to be done- by three air strikes of
sixteen planes each coming from Nicaragua to the south coast
of Cuba. Forty-eight sorties minimum. They knew where Castro's
planes were. These were being watched by American reconnaissance,
by the U-2.
What happened was this. The first strike of sixteen
planes was cut in half by orders from the White House. The
second strike was cancelled entirely. The third strike, after
It was too late to call off the invasion, was cancelled entirely.
So that instead of having forty-eight sorties minimum, you had
eight. And they destroyed almost all of Castro's air force
on the ground, but Castro was left with three jets, two Sea
Furies, and they commanded the skies. The Cuban freedom fighters
were flying from Nicaragua three and half hours to the beachhead
and they had twenty minutes or thirty minutes over the target
and than three and a half hours back. I thought of that yesterday
when I fleW from Hartford here. Seven hours to be over the
target for thirty minutes at the most. And Castro's jets, which
were fueling nearby, flew in -- two -- two at the same time
and -- and -- and slaughtered them.
) BUCKLEY: What dies' this have to do with Barker?
LAZO: It has a great deal to do with Barkers because
Barker was one of the high-level men in the invasion, and he
saw this thing happen by orders, decisions for disaster, taken
In Washington, and he was -- I don't know what the word is --
absolutely humiliated by what happened. He can never forget
this. Barker is a great patriot from the point of view of the
United States, but he loves Cuba too. And he saw that Cuba
? had been betrayed; I use the word deliberately. The Cuban brigOe
on the beach was betrayed. They had been told that they would '
? have continuing supplies to the beach. They never got any supplie
? The Castro jets sank two of the five ships. They -- they destroy-
ed half of the Cuban planes, the free...
BUCKLEY: But what -- what -- we're not here to talk
about the Bay of Pigs, really, except insofar as it bears on
current proceedings. After all, we can talk about Waterloo
or We can...
LAZO: All right.
BUCKLEY: ...talk about Gettysburg...
LAZO: May I -- may I just say...
BUCKLEY: ...and dissect the military and the state.
LAZO: Yes. All right. But.,.
BUCKLEY: But go on and tell me what all this has
to do -- let's timply accept that the military handling of the
Bay of Pigs was catastrophic; everybody knows that. Now, what
idoes this...
HUNT: Military?
BUCKLEY: ...have to do with Barker?
HUNT: Political handling.
BUCKLEY: Military and political, right. Yes. They
?A)ften go hand in hand. Now, what does it have to do with
with Barker, since we've been licensed to discuss...
. .
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LAZO: Yes. I'll tell you what it has...
BUCKLEY: ...his relationship to Watergate?
LAZO: Here's what it has to do with Barker. But
let's let's come now to November of last year, at the time
of the election. Now we know about the Bay of Pigs and we know
how Barker felt about that. We also have to know something
about conditions in Cuba last November. You don't know much
about that, because the attention of .the Americans was -- is
focussed on Southeast Asia. Cuba's not in the news. But Castto
Is now facing the greatest crisis that he's ever faced. And
everything's going against him. His regime is coming to an
end. s
To understand this you must remember that when he..
came to power the: Cubans were among the better-fed people of
the world. That's not Lazo speaking; that's the Department
,of Agriculture in Washington. And today. everything is rationed --
Abutter, bread, sugar, tobacco, everything is rationed except
1"Hate Amer-ice:propaganda, "Hate Nixon" propaganda; tOat's the,
lonly thing that's not rationed. Every- hour of theday the control.?
1Jed- radio Tours out hatred for the United States.. ',
Now, Castro knows I must mention the sugar crop'.
'Two or' three years ago he promised the Cubans a ten million-
!
dollar -- a ten million ton crop. Actually, the Crop last
was four million, whichis what Cuba made. fifty years ago,. and:'
four million in spite of the' fact that he used the entire country
to to harvest it. We used to harvest
1
1So goHlhead. We know about the failure of Castroism,,, -
BUCKLEY: He confessed his failure. As a matter of
fact, he offered to resign. From time to time, he does. You
remember, a summer of so ago? I mean he confessed his own failure.
LAZO: Yes.
BUCKLEY: But go ahead ?now and relate that, please,
,to American policy.
LAZO: Yes. Well, the point is that this year he'll
probabTY make about three and a half million tons. And that's
their money crop. That's the way they get their moneY to import
things.
So Castro knows
by the United States.
,
BUCKLEY: Why?
LAZO: And...
BUCKLEY: Because we would give foreign aid
that his only hope l's, o be recognized
LAZO: No. Because the United States would then suppll
all the spare parts, the equipment and everything else that
the Soviet bloc has been unable to supply.
.BUCKLEY: Why has the Soviet bloc been unable to supply
It? Can't they get it from us? H
, LAZO': For one reason, its too far away, They g
their petroleum from the Black Sea. 1,
, ;
BUCKLEY: Why is that too far?.'
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LAZO: Hmm? ?
BUCKLEY: Why is that too far? You just gm on'a,coupl
'days extra on a steamer.
LAZO: You mean why is the Black Sea too far?
BUCKLEY: Yes.
LAZO: Well, it's pretty far Compared to Venezuela.
BUCKLEY: I mean if the Soviet Union desires to supp1
Cuba, It,can.
LAZO: Well, It's not doing it very well.
BUCKLEY: Well, ?then it decided it doesn't want to.
It's a political point, right?
[Confusion of voices.]
LAZO: ?The Soviets don't do
they're not doing this very well.
ly.
anything very Anil. And
? ,
BUCKLEY: They manage their propaganda pretty effective-
LAZO: Except the propaganda. They do that very well.
However, here is Castro in November, 1972, knowing
that he's through, that he has to die. And his one chance of
surviving is to get recognition and help from the United States.
He can't get that from the Republicans: His one chance was '
to get it from the Democrats, from McGovern, Ted Kennedy, Fulbright,
,all these fellows that are in favor of doing business with tastro.
BUCKLEY: Why couldn't he count on Nixon? After all,
who would have thought that the Red Chinese could count on Nixon?''
?
L?AZO: Why couldn't he count on Nixon?
BUCKLEY: Sure. If Nixon turned around and recognized
Cuba tomorrow, it would hardly begin to occupy.as?much acreage
lof the front page as what he did to China last year,. which made
him a hero. ?
. .
LAZO: Mr. Buckley, let me say that I may disagree
Hwith you on 'one thing I consider Nixon to be a genuine anti-
-
communist. And the fact that he has travelled to Moscow and
,I)eking'ilas simply nothing to do with Cuba.
BUCKLEY: Why shouldn't he travel to Havana?
LAZO.; Hmm/
BUCKLEY: Why shouldn't he travel to Havana?
LAZO: This is a different thing entirelY
BUCKLEY: Why?
LAZO: Because these are -- because the other countries
are great countries. Russia has your population. The Soviets
have a quarter [sic).
BUCKLEY: Our population*
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LAZO: Well., the size -- two hundred million...
BUCKLEY: Now that you're all American citizen.
1 0 LAZO: And the Chinese have ,a 'quarter of the popola00
of the world. ? , , ,
BUCKLEY: In other words, he's afraid of Russia, and,
therefore he has to be courteous and gallant towards ;
t
LAZO: That's true..t-
BUCKLEY: But Cuba'ssa small 'country 'so we can bunt,
LAZO: ...and that's right. ' Cuba's a small enough
dictator, who is a tiny little country of eight million people,
the size of the state of Pennsylvania. There's no reason to
think of treating Castro the way you would the rulers of Russia',
_and China. I don't' go along with .that.
BUCKLEY:
.E'xcu'se me.
?LAZO: it's all right.
BUCKLEY: So you can enter into this, Mr. Hunt, since
we're not talking about Watergate. Is it your point that because
Cuba -- and how would this sound inside the inner councils of
CIA -- that because Cuba is vulnerable to American pressure
? in a sense that the Soviet Union is not, therefore it makes
tsense to take a ?hard line with Cuba even whilv we're taking
a soft line towards the Soviet Union?
HUNT: Yes, that makes sense "to me. Castro Cuba,
of course, is a client state of the Soviet Union. And I think
it's a ?matter of record among people who study Latin American ,
affairs that Castro has been a somewhat less than,satisfactory
iclient of the 'Soviet Union...
BUCKLEY: Insufficient servility?
HUNT: Insufficient servility. Following the Cuban
missile crisis there were a great many .problems. He felt himself'
lin a sense abandoned by the loss of his Russian military advisert.
,The Soviet Union itself, of course, is undergoing a time of
ttremendous economic stress. The mere fact that they signed
;/1 wheat and corn deal with the United States would indicate
Ithat they are having trouble not only fulfilling their internal
needs, but this means less for their client states, such as '.
'the Arab world, Egypt in particular -- the United Arab Republic
and Cuba. Cuba is very small potatoes as far as the Kremlin
ks concerned,
LAZO: Of course it is.
HUNT: The death of Che Guevara in effect put an end
to the type of guerrilla activity that Castro had been promising
and promulgating throughout the hemisphere.
BUCKLEY: But now wait a minute. Isn't this different
from what both of you have been really maintaining over the '
years? You wrote a book called "Dagger at the Heart"...
LAZO: 'That's right.
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.BUCKLEY:: Well, how can a country be small potatoes -
lthat is a dagger aimed at our heart? If, in fact, the ambition
of the Soviet Union is to rule the world., as both of us think: '
it to be, how can you say that they consider Cuba to be small
potatoes? ,
LAZO: I'll tell you how, because Cuba is an unsinkablnl.,
aiedraft carrier positioned ninety miles from your shores,.,
:BUCKLEY: Well, they're not-small potatoes then.
. LAZO: Not in that respect. Small potatoes as far
as getting rid of the sawed off dictator, of course. He doeSnt,t
mean that. Cuba is a dagger pointed at the heart. It's..:
?
BUCKLEY:- Well, then, why wouldn't the Soviet UniOn.
be prepared to make maximum sacrifices., as indeed it has done?
I've'. seen the estimate .of'a million dollars per day. Is that,,
unreasonable?
HUNT: Not unreasonable, no,
F
BUCKLEY: Okay. A million dollars a day 4s not something'
that you afford as a subsidy for a small potato cliebt state,
LAZO: Well, there...
BUCKLEY: If it were situated in mid Africa, or something
like that, they probably wouldn't pay a million dollars; they
wouldn't be worth it. But situated where they are now, it is
an important lesion in the Caribbean basin, isn't it?
HUNT: It's quiescent. It's quiescent at the time.
On the other hand, we have no reason to believe that there are
not Soviet military emplacements in Cuba in a state of readiness.
We don't know. There have been no American or international
observers who have ever, gone there.
BUCKLEY: Why doesn't the CIA know?
HUNT: I would say because of post Bay of Pigs restrict-
ions on the degree, the parameters of intelligence activity
directed at the island republic.
BUCKLEY: In other words, an American citizen is not
entitled to rest confident that the CIA knows whether there
are, or there are not, massive Soviet offensive weapons burred
in Cuba?
HUNT: No,. he's not.
LAZO: What was your answer to that?
HUNT:. No, he is not.
BUCKLEY: Now, is that-- are you making a technical
aspersion on CIA?
HUNT: No, I am simply saying that as in any government
:agency, funds are allocated for certain areas of actiiiity.
Obviously Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, the entire southeast Asian '
picture has monopolized most of the American military and intelli-
igence budget for a number of years. ? 1
BUCKLEY: All the people who could predict things
were In South Vietnam last year?
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HUNT: And the men and the resources available for
;focusing on Latin American problems accordingly were reduced.
iC1A hasn't been hiring very much in recent years. It's been ,
'Cut back. They have had to absorb within their own ranks budget
[deficiencies. Whenever a new line of activity, support activity,
develops in another part of the world -- and again I go back
to Southeast Asia -7 the funds have to come from somewhere.
They come, generally speaking, from Latin American activities.
Certainly U-2 overflights of the island republic have been cut
back. They were, in any case, after the Bay of Pigs turned
over to the Air Force. The U-2, which CIA developed and utilized
to successfully for so many years, was taken out of the agency's
hands and put in the hands of the kir Force.
There has been a tendency I think within the entire
government to do nothing, or if anything is done at all it is
to provide the appearance rather than the substantive action.
And accordingly,! answer your initial question in that sense,
BUCKLEY: So that it isn't that it couldn't/be done...
HUNT: Right.
A -3UCKLEY: It's that we haven't given it that kind
Hof priority.
HUNT: We may not, to my knowledge. And, after all,
I retired two years. ago, two and .a half. years ago, from CIA..
. At that time, I myself was not confident that there
were not missiles or ether offensive weapons in Cuba, ? placed
there by the Soviet Union. .
BUCKLEY: Well, is it ? when Senator Kennedy says,
"Loot, let's, for God sakes, go ahead and recognize Cuba, having
first engineered the consent of the Organization of American
iStates, on the grounds that not to do so, given our current
iattitude towards China, and the. Soviet Union, is anomalous." .
understand you to be saying, don't give in to Kennedy's advice
lbecause Cuba As having very.,-very serious difficulties, and .
Hif we continue to let natural pressures wort against CUba, it
'Might result in the overthrowing. of a despetic governmOts ?
1 LAZO: Not only "might result," it would certainly.
.iresult, without any question.
BUCKLEY: By when? By when?
LAZO: By when?
BUCKLEY: Uh-huir.
LAZO:. Well, that's a. guess, of course, but very tett,
in my. opinion. I.think he's very close to the.end.. The people':
are ready to take to the streets. ' All they need Is some kind
,of a little sign from the United States that we'd like .to tee
:them- de it, some voice on,the-Voice of America,' or something'- -
'of that kind. ,
,
But Mr. BuckleY, let me'.. let me.
:to Watergate..,-,MayA do that?
BUCKLEY: Sure.
LAZO: And mention,Jny frien
back juit A secon
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? P BUCKLEY: Sure.
LAZO: I've told you about the Bay of Pigs...
? BUCKLEY: You have, yes.
LAZO: ,..and I told you how, humiliated Barker felt
about that, 'having worked at it and having been blamed for it,
being part of the organization. I've told you about conditions.,
In Cuba. -Then we come to the election. And there were reports
before the election. We got-many reports that money Was coming
from Cuba into the McGovern campaign fund....
BUCKLEY: You had repoirts frcm whom?
LAZO: From where?
BUCKLEY: From whom? Yes.
LAZO: From Cuba. Communist money
!?
BUCKLEY: From what people in Cuba?.'You men from
friends of yours or what? /
LAZO: Well, I have many sources...
,BUCKLEY: Of information.
LAZO: Many sources. We didn't have. proof ,'of courseo
We just had these reports. If we had proof, it wouldn't have
had to be :Investigated. You know that.
.. So there were these reports: And 'this group conducted
ih. my opinion, a patriotic, honorable counter-intelligence opera
ion.y.I...asked.a friend of mine in Norfolk .where Ijiye the other
day if he knew what counter-intelligence meant. And he said,
"No, what is it?'' This guy is a Harvard graduate.
BUCKLEY: No wonder, huh?
[Laughter.]
LAZO: Well, I said it's a very risky operation, very
secret, and It's designed to uncover men, women and activities .
working against the United States. And, of course, every country
in the world does it.
.BUCKLEY: Well, ifthat's true, then the Watergate
!people Were direct instruments of the government -- if what
iyou say is true. I mean, you don't conduct counter-intelligence..
:ioperations, sui sponde, do you?
LAZO: Sui what?
. BUCKLEY: Sui sponde, of your own decisions.
LAZO: These were very highly trained men. And this
question of finding if communist money is coming to the United
States is a very difficult thing. They wash the money about
.six times. You know what that means, don't you?
BUCKLEY: laundered, yes.
LAZO: They put it through accounts in foreign countri-
es and so forth, You've got to have very good men to check -
on that.
7.
. ? ?
? ? '
;1
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They had that report. And that's one thing...
BUCKLEY: If this is embarrassing you ought to stop
it. According to the...
HUNT: It's not embarrassing to me, because it doesn't
? affect me one way or another. I pleaded guilty to six counts.
LAZO: Now, another reason they had for going in there
-- there'd been, as everybody knows, .security leaks, classified
information. Incidentally, I'm not saying for a second that
McGovern was in on this, or O'Brien. Of course not. Nobody
thinks that they are -- they consider themselves to be patriots,
and I think everybody can agree With that. I'm not saying that.
,
BUCKLEY: You're saying somebody was in on it. Look,"
you received reports saying that communist money is going into',
the Democratic organization...
LAZO: Which had a nine million dollar deficit and
Which needed the money. Yes. ,
4
?
? BUCKLEY: 'Yes. Right. Right. Now, what, y6u ? now
?you re saying, however, O'Brien and McGovern -know about
it.. But all of a sudden you are crediting those soui?ces.... You .r
saying, I, accept the fact that there was communist money in '
the Democrat operation,?''but I'm exonerating' the,. top guys of
a6f, knowledge of It.
?
LAZO: Yes,. 1 am exonerating ;the top guys..,
.?
BUCKLEY: But 'what makes you accept that allegation?
LAZO: Well , because I think 'they're above that. sort
BUCKLEY: No, no, no, no, no, no. 'What makes you
accept the' allegation that, in fact there was communist money),
in the Democratic operation?
LAZO: Because, as 1 say, Castro ',s regime is growitg
to an end.. And he knows that the only way he can survive...
BUCKLEY:, No no, _no, AO. ,That makes,
LAZO: .,.is to have McGovern as President of the ?
United States.
BUCKLEY: ...That makes it plausible. , But it does '
t Validate any...
LAZO: It makes it logical.
BUCKLEY: Yes.
LAZO: Well, a lawyer deals in logict
BUCKLEY: Yes, but it's also logical that
have gone to China, but he did.
[Laughter.]
Well, anyway, go ahead. This is a hypothesis of yours.
LAZO: A hypothesis? No, it's a conviction from every-
'thing I know. And I have, as I say, many sources of information.
Nixon shouldh
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So counter-intelligence. Secondly, trying to find
out about the security leaks. And then, of course, as you know,
there were rumors that there were going to be riots at the Repoli,.
lican convention. They would have liked to have known about
that, too.
So there're very good reasons for this. And politics
is a dirty business. You know that. The Americans all know
that. McGovern in his campaign accused -- he compared Nixon
to Hitler on three occasions publicly, the Nixon government
to the Hitler henchmen. And that's the communist line. In
Cuba today whenever Nixon's name is printed in the government
papers, the way they print it is N-I -- the swastika -- O-N.
That's the communist line. McGqvern was doing that. And this
kind of thing is not a parlor game..' It's not tiddly-winks.
It's...
BUCKLEY: No, but here's what I'm trying to say, Mr;
Lazo. Assuming that we accept your hypothesis, then aren't
we required to accept that the people who crashed Watergate.
were doing ?so at the direction of a responsible official of
the United States government?
LAZO: Not necessarily.
BUCKLEY: Why not?
LAZO: Because they could have been doing it with
anti-Castro Cuban money. That's possible.
BUCKLEY: But counter-intelligence operations are
usually done in behalf of a government, aren't they?
LAZO: I don't know, and you don't know where the
money was coming from.
BUCKLEY: You mean it could have been -- according
to this hypothesis, it could have been a completely spontaneous
thing?
HUNT: That's right.
LAZO:
honorable...
BUCKLEY: In the same sense that he spontaneously.
actedras,a spy for CIA in Cuba?
HUNT: That's right. And certainly before the Bay
of Pigs, a couple of years before, even the pro-Castro partiSans
!conducted their own counter-tntelligence, operations against
'Castro against Batista. So you-,doOt need necessarily to
What I'm trying to say is that this was an
BUCKLEY: I thought they were working for the New
York Times.
HUNT: ...the phrase counter-intelligence with employm
a:goVernment, per se, ipso facto.
?
BUCKLEY: It could be just spontaneously organized.
? ;
HUNT:? By people who know ...what they're doingiet,:.
LAZO:. May jsay-One.more
BUCKLEY': Yes. ? ? .
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LAZO:_ ...becausej think our time isending.
,
BUCKLEY. Yes.
LAZO: I consider that this group are of honor;
they re.patriots. I.think that instead of being proseduted:
they should .be decorated, 14
-BUCKLEY: Now wait a minute. YoW:can t.:detoOate saMeib
for" reakine the law, can yOu?:
LAZO: Yes, you can.
BUCKLEY: Well, give
me $a recent example.
LAZO: Well, I'll give you this examplei that when
we get our country back, get Cuba back, I can assure you that
the first government of .?ree Cuba will decorate this group.
I consider that I'm...
BUCKLEY: No, I can understand that; I can upderstan
that.
LAZO: Yes.
BUCKLEY: Just as, say, de Gaulle undoubtedly decorated
a lot of Frenchmen who shot people, other Frenchmen, who were
collaborating with the Nazis. I can understand that. But I .
don't understand your taking the position that the American
Justice Department is acting perversely in prosecuting people
who plead guilty to breaking American laws.
LAZO: There are some things which rise beyond --
above that: love of country. Let me put it this way. I feel
that I'm in the presence of a great man sitting here, one of
the great men of our time. You know, when we left Cuba, my
wife and I, we left with two dollars. To lose everything that
you've made your entire life, at the end of a long life, is
very bad. To lose a friend, the way Barker lost his friend,
the way this gentleman recently lost his wife, is much worse.
But when you lose honor, you lose everything. And he hasn't
lost -- and these men have not lost their honor, as far as we
believe. And I can assure you that the six hundred and fifty
thousand Cubans in this country have the highest regard for
'them. Don't you be concerned. We're going to help you in every
way we can. And you still have your honor. That's the important
thing.
BUCKLEY: Well, but it's only important I thint for
'you, Mr. Lazo, to acknowledge that, paradoxical though it may
'sound, the pursuit of honor can require temporal punishment.
LAZO: .Yes, it can.
BUCKLEY: But you must disparage necessarily the people
who mete out that punishment, because, in fact,-the two do not
contradict each other, philosophically, and certainly not histori-
ically.
Im any case, the time is u
. Lazo. Thank you, Mr. Hunt.
HUNT: Thank you.
BUCKLEY: Ladies and
Thank you very much,
entlemen.
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' NEW YORK TIMES
119 January 1973
KtEINDIENST VOWS
AID 011 WATERGATE
? By WARREN WEAVER Jr.
Special to The New York Times
H WASHINGTON, Jan. 18?At-s. General Richard a.!
KleindiensCpromised today that
the Justice Department and the
Federal Bureau of Investigation
would cooperate with .the Sen-
ate investigation of political
eavescliopping at the Demo-
trade National Committee't
'Watergate headquarters. '
, kleindienst said , the
"only reason" for holding back
any records of the. Govern-
meet's Watergate inquiry would
be the passibility of prejudicing
St pending *court case or the
fact that the material was un-
reliable and pnssibly damaging
tocinriocent persons. ' ?
The Attorney General told
reporters at a breakfast meet-
ing that the investigation to
be headed by Senator Sam J.
Ervin Jr., Democrat of North
Carolina, was "probably a good
thing." ?
"The judicial system is net
the best place to explore all
the- ramifications" of political
espionage and the participants
;Who did not necessarily violate
tiny Federal law; Mt.' Klein-,
*dienst said.
The Nixon Cabinet officer
acknowledged freely 'that he.
exthanged information arid
comments about the Waterfate
ease regularly with the White
Hotise, but he denied that the
President or any of Mt. Nixon'S
'aides had attempted to inter-
fere with the Justice Departs
meet investigation.
'A Little Bit fo Concern'
? "We don't live in little pros
phylactic sacks," he said. "I
_talk to the people in the White
House, and they talk to me. On
a matter like this, there was a
little hit of concern . . . a ceri'
tam rt apprehension legitimatelY
surfaced."
During a broad-ranging disiS
.cussion, Mr. Kleindienst also;
did the following:
. gReported he had Teconisr.
'Mended that L. Patrick Gray 3(1,--i
acting. director of the Feder0
Bureau of Investigation, be?
given a permanent appointment
and that he did not know why
the President had been delay-
leg action on filling the post
Joemore than two months since
* ' the election. .
, *qConceded he had opposed
some of the recent chances in
second-echelon Justice Depart-
ment- staff, ? including the re-
placement of Solicitor. General
Erwin N. Griswold, made at
the "suggestion" of *the White
Hoese, but that he now sup-
ported all file new ' men and
women.'
? tiSaid he intended to ternain
tis Attorney General until "the
President calls ? me- up and
says: 'Cleandish, you can serve
your country better in Wins-
low,. Ariz." " There have been,
persistent rumors that he would.
leave office this spring or
slimmer. ?
ifitttributed most efforts at
eepionage, which he;
HE WASHINGTON' 'POST Map Jae. 14, 1973
?
Offwe of Education Se re
nit Contract Involyi 04 H
/ By Eric Wentworth
Washington Post Staff Writer
Rep. Edith Green (D-Ore.)
said yesterday that the U.S.
Office of Education bought it-
self a "political headache" last
June by renewing a public re.
lations contract involving
Watergate figure E. Howard
Hunt Jr. '
, In a House floor speech,
IVIrs: Green said an Office of:
Education contra c t review'
board approved the renewal at,
Its June 21 meeting despite
knowing of Hunt's being im-
plicated In the Watergate ease,
and despite lack of competi-
tive bidding and the absence
Of contract documents.
The contract with Robert R.
Mullen and Co., datinehack to
1969 reportedly before Hunt
joined that public relations
firm, ' carries a eumulative
price tag of nearly $750,000.
The Mullen firm's major mis-
sion has been to etimelate
nubile interest in educating
handicapped children.
Office of Education officials
recalled that Hunt setved, in
effect, as account executive
for the government contract
}Ie was instrthnental early last
Year in securing Julie Nixon
Eisenhower's appearance in a
television spot ori behalf Of
the cducating-the-handitapped
denounced, to amateurs WhO'
regard campaigns for anyi
'patty or candidate as "kind of
a joy-pop." He volunteeted that
the national young Republican
organizatvon had often en-
gaged in "a lot of truck stuff"
bf that kind Within ,Its own
ranks.
Mr. Kleindienst insisted there
had been no necessity to name
a special ptosecutor or a Fed-.
erat commission to look into
the Watergate case and inter.-
party. spying. The s hest tern=
Mission, he insisted, Was the
press, which needed only to
avoid being "oversensitive" to
occasiona critidism by .its
fa tte targets.
Approv d7ror Reeae 2001/08/
campaign, at a time when he
was also serving as a part-time
White Rouse consultant. -
Mrs. Green, ? longtime
'Critic of mismanagement and
waste In the office's spending
of grant and contract funds,
said the agency "has again.
asked for its political head-
ache and deserves no sympa-
thy because of the irresponsi-
ble manner in which it contin-
ues to spend taxpayers'Aollare
In . questionable ways while
school districts are desperate
for funds to continue basic
programs."
'Mrs. Green said quirt's
name had been linked with
the Watergate bugging case
the day before the Sole
Source Board?the Offite of
Education panel created t6
Screen proposed contracts that
had not been subject to corn-
petitive bids?approved con-
tinuing the Mullen contract.
Indeed, she said, she. had;
,been informed that Hunt's1
home and the Watergate easel
had been discussed at the
board's meeting. "It was ttilg.1
gested at the meeting," . she;
continued, '.'that approval of 1
.this sole source contract1
could prove to be in ember,
.rissment. to the adridnistra-
tion. Nevertheless,. the contins
tring contract Was funded." .
WASHINGTON POST
20 JANUARY 1973
eT itne.ss
Can't Trace,
Wireta og,
By Lawrence Meyer
Washington Post Staff Writer
' Akey government 'witness
In the Watergate 'bugging
Alfred C. Baldwin III,
:testified yesterday that he.
,eouid not remember the name 1
:be put on an envelope contains'
irig logs . of illegal wiretaps
and that he had no "personl.
iknowledge" of who. received
;the logs. ,
taldwin'S testimony, big
first public 'comment :under
fith on the subject, appeared'
tri &inflict with earlier report?
Prat he could remember the
:fiattleS of three White lItiuse.
ior Nixon. Campaign aides tol
Whom memos describing the
Wiretapped conversations
were addressed' .
In court yesterday, tlaldYilti
described- how his boss, seen.'
rity coordinator for the Corn-.
mittee- for the Re-election ot
the President, James W. Me4
Mrs. Green added that ?
government audit on an earl
Her phase of the -contract with
Mullen had challenged certain;
costs totaling $24,472?inclu0
leg excessive costs for prodttei
ing a film strip.
; Minutes of the board Meet
-
Ing that day, the Oregon law
maker said, indicated the;
panel approved continuing the
Mullen contract despite the
absence of a contract proposal,
and related paperwork. Office
of Education files ,showed,
Mullen had submitted a pro.
posal and budget earliet?bttb
confirmed this material was'
not at thb board's meeting:
,Edwin W. Martin, associate,
cdmmiisioner of the Office. Oki
Etlucation in charge of ite,
handicaPped-education ;131.
thins that he and others'hadi
tions that he and other s had
been generally Pleased With."
the quality of the Moil&
irnl'stksofk.
. Martin denied Mrs.. GreeA
further assertion that ? mos
tor in continuing the contract: ?
presumably was Htint's
Mullen's Wlilte Hottse infittl
Mice "vis-a-vis funds for C/Ei
handicapped budget."
? ?
te; deliver 'the' loge kr the fee,
election committee headquarl
'lets. Baldwin was questioned.
Assistant 'U.S. Attorneyli
Seymour Glanzer. ? ? ? -
McCord, along with 0. dor.,:
don Liddy, also a former rei
election committee official; AS',
.on'trial on charges of conspirl
aey, burglary and illegal wirc-J
tapping and eavesdropping
stemming from the June ? 17;
break-in at the Democratic NM
tional Committee's Watergetd
headquarters. Five other nick'
Including former White House
aide E. Howard Hunt Jr., have:
pleaded guilty to the charges..;i
The trial ended its semi
week yesterday in U.S.'
trict Court before Chief Judgei
t,
John J. Sirica.
Ordinarily, Baldwin testi.,
fled, McCord came to' pick tip
the logs at least once a day Iry
'Baldwin's room In the Howard.
Johnson Motor 'Lodge where;
he monitored the telephone
conversations In the Demo
-
erotic headquarters across the.
street.
"On one occasion, I delivoti;.
ed the logs that covered a twb-,
day period to the Committeei
for (he Reelection of the Preel
!dent," Baldwin said,. exPleiti:'1
ihg that McCord. "Instructett?,
me -to take" the- loge.- the,
torninittee'l ;;. Tii of the'
fact that bevies being .delayett
in Mitin11." '
'The (locations' and attaVieNI
IC8a214150f/728titAeN0816000740fitnerAiid do IAA. tOctiir
went like this': " ' s2.? ?
rnmr-r,Trgrmrtc., 1-17.71Trr."7":
7-7,-"rprrt77.777777777.111171117.1)V, Ur? Y,1 ph; ,?
Approved For Release 2001/08/07 : CIA-RDP77-00432R000100070001-9
1What per lectbflime We're
lag about?" I ? -? ?.': ??
hApproximatelY
?;-June .6 or:7; It *RS' arWednes.
"..cley of .that iveek.e ; ?-?
"c. Glanzer:. "Can- you tell
what " Mr.;McCord's, instrue;
Mons were td yon and how it
? ?.''Came, about, he gave. you -the
instructions?" .
Baidivin: ?"The .'instructions
' Were to lake .the logs,- place
them inside manila enve,.
:lope, then, staple the envelope'
and over thdstaPle put Scotek? ,
tape.. He .(McCord). then - fur.,j
?.nished Me a name. I. wrote the;
hame down On a piece . of pa-i
, per, , later : transcribed thatj
name to theonveloper
Mantel.: "As yOu sit Mere;
now do .You recall. the name,
. or: that person or the
given you to. pet ?On there, if
!there Is such a person?"? .
Baldwin:."I do not.".
: "Do you know Of
!your;orktn .Personal knowledge!
who the logs were .delivered,to;
lialdwin: "No, I do not."'
Glatizeri."Where did you 'de.,
liver. the logs in ? the
envelope?"
naldwin! delivered 'theni
to a guard at the ?Committee
for the Re-election of,thoprefej
? Baldwin's lesttMony COntin
,
.ued to', f011Ow, a published
; count:of an ihteeview ?he' gave'
'to, the :Los Angels. Times
which Appeared hi The Wash-
trigton,Post ofi Oct. 6. In that
interview: :Baldwin also said
he could not remember to
Whom he had addressed the
logs.
.Baldwin IS reported to have.
.told ',others, The? Washington
losti/ has learned,, that he
:bould remember the names of
three. White House or Nixon
Aides, Who, received memos de-
scribing . the telephone
conversations: White -House
congressional liaison ? William'
E.. Timmons, and campaign
aides Robert Odle. and Glenn
Sedatn. ' , ;
Sources close to' the Water-
gate investigation have said
that Baldwin named Odle and
Timmons from memory and
picked out Sedam's name from
a list when interviewed by the
FBI. All three have defiled re-
ceiving the ' memos. Odle's
name is on ? the. 'prosecution's
witness 'list. No mention has
been made of the :other, two
inen at the' trial. .
Prosecutor Glanzer . asked
Baldwin if ,'he lied "personal
knowledge" 'of who receiVed
the logs. The phrasing of the
quegtion ? and legal require-
ments inured Baldwin from
answering in the affirmative if
any knowledge he had was
Second-hand.
Baldwin, a 36-year-old for,
ther' FBI agent who -has been
given immunity from prosecu-
tion for his testimony, de-
ecribed his activities in a flat.
Matter-of-fact tone, without
any sign of emotion. Or hesita-
tide *heti asked S question by
Glanzer.' ' ?
McCord. ,Baldwin said,
*anted Mtn to monitor "any
eonitersatiens'involVing?Pnlith
real strategy and Mi PertOriall
nature. He (McCord) wanted
1a11 conversations recorded." '
At one point durieg ;Bald-
testimony Judge Silica
interrupted the proceedings,
the:jurx. out of the Oat.
**own and atinounced that the
U.S. Court of Appeals had bar-
red the ProSecution from al,
lowing.any testimony coeceric,
'Ing the contents of the conver:.
s,titiont : ,that Baldwin oVet'.."
I I
Sirica read a 'brief order
from Chief Circuit Judge Da4
Vid L. Bazelon ? and Circuit
Judge'J. Skelly Wright. Cir...
*tit Judge George M. Mac-
Kinnon dissented? saying he
'Would permit the government
to "refer to the? Contents in',
general terms."
? Glanzer said the prosecution'
will decide- ? 'by Monday
? whether it will appeal the de::
? Sirica yesterday released his
written opinion in the matter,
which was? overturned, by the
appellate court. The opinion:
argues that the government'
dhould not be limited to thd
"minimum (proof) necessary
to avoid a judgment of acquit..
tat" but rather should be al,
fee-tdef'.../01: 13. /973 THE NI7AstnNaT0rt posT
rtness can't Recall
FicisOed :to '''cOrrobiretate-Alaid;
:win's assertions that he monte
;toted conversations by permit.;
ling .hine,to describe what he
heard. ' . ? '
- In his testimony Yestettla
'Baldwin also Said that tibtutt
,the ,end of :May --1:',May trtd
'29 MCCOrd went into the
I:/efitheratie Party's Watergate
i
Offices:one evening. "Mr. Me-
,Cord appeared' in Mr.' Oliverlf
office," Baldwin recalled, de,
:scribing what he said? he 'could.
:see, frOM his hotel room: "He:
pulled the blinds shut."'
?Iri the 'early morning liottrit
Of June 17,' When Washington'
*police caught ?McCord and :the
four,' :men from
have pleaded guilty le, break,
ing'irtta the-DentheratiC head.
quarters Baldwin described
how: radioed 11- ?WaiIng
over.. d'::.-Walkie-talkie. McCord
had..givert?hiet
? "Are yotrreading title Are
YoU',readitig this?' ."., 'Baldwin
recalled.' a? voice saying' over
the:Wei:hie-talkie ',after, he I.
sued the warning. Theti
Bald-
win, Said the Voice..,tOld him to
stay:in ,his ,hotel- roenr,;."Prri
coming up." -
' Moments
90st
K
? c?,
#
4,
a-attic:lila*, Hunt, Who
been described by the Miattit
men, as their leader,. emerge
frOM the. Watergate cent*.
and :walk hnrriedly toward',
car. Baldwin said he also an
Liddy come out, but
"couldn't,' be absolutely -1)W
live" on 'his identificationAf
Liddy. "1-didn't? See thenf164
getherrtaldwin said.
?
After the two men got intO
ear and,drove awaY, Baldwin,
said', if:voice', came over,' th
Walkie-talkie,and said;
"We're on our way.' "I'''rheii
Baldwin said he heard anoth
volee. Whispdr, "" Ihtf:Y'Veriti
us! It
Baldwin said he then hear
McCord say over the walkie
talkie," 'Are You metropolitan.
" ? sled' another ,?yeice";
day, " 'What is that?! , ,
11.
Hunt appeared in Baldwin's;
hotel room soon after, Balc1.1
win said, made 'some phone)
calls and?thett 'told Baldwin
Peck the electronic equipment
and take it to McCord's fume:4
?Glanzer asked taldwiti?if
said anything else to. Hunli,ii,!
asked hlmr Baldwin Int*
swered, "Whether or, not.it
ineiint that I was , 'et
0
ho ..Got Tapped Lo
By Lawrence Meyer, -
Wanilintton Poet ativff Writer
Saying that "all the facts
have not been developed by ei-:
tiler side," Chief U.S. District
Judge John J. Sirica inter-
vened in the questioning of a
key government witness in the
Watergate bugging trial yes-
terday to ask him the name of
a person to whom he ad-
dressed logs of illegally tap.
ped telephone conversations.,
The witness, Alfred C. Bald-
win III, repeated that he could
not recall the name. During
subsequent testimony Baldwin
said the person had a first
name like a last name and a
"German-sounding last name."
At one point, Baldwin testi-
fied, he picked out a name
from an FBI list similar til" the
name of a Nixon campaign
aide. But that name "wasn't
picked as being the person,"
Baldwin said.
Sines repeatedly has said
that he intends to find out
who else?if anyone?was in-
volved in the Watergate inci-,
dent. He prefaced his ques-
tioning of Baldwin by assert-
ing that it was "perfectly
proper" and that he was not
"accusing anybody of any
wrongdoing" by asking the
questions.
The questioning t?'f'curred aS
the Watergate trial) mtered its
third week here. s'wo former wad doing was legal. 'Baldwin,: "I do not know, your, his
officiate of the Co iftnittee for tutor:net, Fill agent who has Or.' Baldwin
I? 26? l'When did yothava ii:1
001/08/07 : C1A-RDP77-00432R000100070001-9
f,,fmr;10,,,vellyin,171fT1,11,111y.''To Y'Yty,711:p119:1-
the' Re-election of the Pres!,
dent,- James W. McCord Jr:
and G., Gordon Liddy, are on
trial on charges of conspiracy,.
burglary and illegal wiretap-
ping and eavesdropping in.
connection with the June 17
break-in at the Democratic NA-
tional Committee's Watergate
headquarters. Five other 'men,'
consultant E. Howard Hunt
Jr., already have pleaded.
guilty' to the charges.
Baldwin testified Friday,
that ordinarily he hinted over
to McCord the logs of tele-
phone conversations he moni-
tored in the Democratic Party
headquarters from ft hotel
across the street. On one occa-1
sion. Baldwin testified, Mc-
Cord instructed him to putl
some logs in an envelope, put
-a name on -the front and de-
liver it to A guard at the re-
election committee headquar-?,
ters.
, Asked Friday if he could re-
call the name, Baldwin said he
Could not. Asked if he knew,
of his "own personal knowl-
edge" who got the logs, Bald-
win said he did not.
Baldwin. returned to the wit-
tiest; stand yesterday for cross-
examination, Under question-
ing by McCord's lawyer. Ger-
ald Alch, Baldwin testified
that he was monitoring the
telephone conversations under
the impression that what he.
been given immunity froOli
prosecution to testify, said he;
had this impression because
several factors, Including cor-
respondence McCord had',
'shown him with the Federali
Communications Commission! ...
and that MCCord worked for
the re-election committee, ..
"And wasn't another one o,
the factors," Alch asked, "yottE,
knowledge that your surveil'
,ance was in some way ton.)
nected with secdrity?"
"Connected with ' security'
and. to the people it Was going'
, .
to, that is correct," Baldwinreplied. ?
Alch has cotrded that Me,.
Cord was involved -in bugging
the Democratic headquarters
but asserts that the bugging
was legal because It Was lin-,
tended to find out about poss0';
ble violence aimed at the- re...
i,
election committee. . '
. ,
After Alch completed his
cross-examination,' Sirica ' ,ex.'
cused the jury and began as10
ing Baldwin questions. ?
Summarizing Baldwited earn
Her-testimony about how he
sealed the logs !nen envelope
addressed thel envelope and
delivered It to the re-electin
committee heedquarters, Stele
asked Baldwin, "What is' the
name of the Party (to . whomthe envelope was' fiddreised)r
Approved For Release
cv)
APproved For Release 2001/08/07 : CIA-RDP77-00432R000100070001-9 ?
'of memory as to`the name 'or
that party?" Sirica asked.
"The first interview ;With
the -F131, I believe, we sent
over several names at that
time and we went over several
'names thereafter and the only:
thing I can recall is when the
name was, given me?the first
liame?V assumed it , was the
last narrie," Baldwin said.
"What wail :the first name
given you?" Shies asked.'
"I used the reference Glenn,
because a friend of mine, his
last name is Father Glenn,"
Baldwin said, "and I used that
as a reference and we tried to
establish the name of the indi-
vidual." ?
Sirica did not pursue the
point but later; under cross-e*
amination by Liddy's lawyer,
Peter Maroulls, Baldwin ex.
Panded his explanation, saying
he "wrote the first name down
Its being the last name . .?
Then T was given the second
name that. I could not snell
and as I recall It was a Ger-
WASHINGTON STAR
19 January 1973
CARL .1". ROWAN
Man-sounding naerth."''
Baldwin also said In talking ,
to the FBI he "used an anal.
ogy" when he suggested the
name was Glenn. Glenn, Bald-
win said, "was not the ,name;?
It was just 'given as an anal.
Maroulis . asked Baldwin if
he remembered telling two
'Los Angeles Times reporters
during an interview that in
one session with the FBI,
'agents had read names to him
and he had picked' Our the
name "Sedan."
?
"It wasn't picked as heing,
the person," Baldwin replied.,
"It was one ,of the . names%
picked that we pulled' out:
from. a group of, names td,
think about." ? -
? "Mr., Baldwin," lMaroulis
asked? 'did You know at the
time that you mode that state-
ment to The 'Les' Angelei
Times that there waS a man'
named Glenn .Sedam who
worked for the Committee to
,k-elect the President?",
Five of the Watergate de-1
tfendants now have pleaded .
f?guilty to conspiracy; burglary ?
hand illegal wiretapping and
i'eavesdropping. ?? ?
That in itself is hardly the,
1,stirprise of the year, consid-
'iering that the last four to:
;admit 'guilt were caught with
t heir trousers at half mast.
Even though the five who
'have admitted their guilt
:could get ? prison terms of up
to 55 years; even though they
,luive admitted to one of the
? most sordid and serious as-,
? ,eaults on our system of free
elections in this nation's his-
tory there is' something dis-
quieting abput their confes-
sions.
? It is difficult to escape the.
feeling that these confessions
flow out of a new conspiracy
? to ensure that no trial ever
. Occurs . where the American
people will learn the whole
? truth about who ordered the
burglaries, the espionage that
`incredible corruption of our
election precesses.
; The suspicions ,wallow, like
Maggots. on an August (lay,
that the Confessors are sacri-
ficing themselves, honorable
'to .their understanding that
? ,"if you are caught, the sec-
? retary , will disavow your so
lhat the public will never
';knOw.
just how far into gov-
ernm cut the rottenness
:reaches.'
'1 had read it - in the
newspaper; prior to that I did
not," Baldwin said. Maroulis
then turned his questions to
,another subject. '
In other testimony yester-
day, M. Douglas Caddy, a
tWashington lawyer, testified
that on the morning of 'the
break-in Hunt called him on
the phone and- visited him if
his apartment to arrange to
retain a criminal lawyer%
Caddy also testified that he
Spoke with Liddy in the earlY,,i
Morning hours of June 174
shortly after police had ar-
rested McCord and four other
men inside the Democratic
headquarters, and I.,iddy re-
tained Caddy to "represent
him in this case."
' Caddy said Hunt had called
him between 3:05 and 3:15
a.m., approximately t h
Same time that Baldwin 'said
Hunt made a phone tall froin,
Baldwin's hotel room After
;Baldwin testified he saw Hunt'
and Liddy, walking .hurriedly'
mom the tlititeigate'Hoter 9,
Caddy's testimony about'
;Liddy retaining him as hiS',
lawyer was given over SUN'
ibulls' objectioe that Liddy had
e constitutional right to a law-
'yer and the prosecution was
Making his , exercise of thati
!right appeee to he
-; ,
Sirica itterruPted Caddy's;
testimorlY to reed an instrue.i
lion to the jury?prepared bel
;the proSecution?that it was to
'i,'draw no adverse inference
'
from the fact 'that Liddy r?
tamed a lawyer but that iti
could consider the.. time atuir
'other circumstances surround;
,ing Liddy's aetion.
, Caddy said later that 'hel
and another lawyer, ?Joseph'
)
Rafferty, went to find out about
the five men who were arrested
Inside the Watergate. CitddY
said none of the ; fre had coed.
tacted him between tie! tithe Oil
their arrest and hia vis,! to the.
C. Superior Court tie! ?th4i;
isecond police district.
.
'
, but More h Just a Ca
,
Maybe the tragic death of
his wife in a plane crash did
Motivate the guilty plea of E.
'Howard Hunt Jr., the former
Central Intelligence Agency
,operative` who was working
as a White House consultant
and apparently masterminded
the political spying.
Maybe grief did convince
Huntthat he could not undera
go a lengthy trial.
But how do we understand
those guilty pleas of "the
Miami four "?Bernard L.,
Barker, Frank Sturgis, Eu-
genio R. Martinez and Virgil-
io II. Gonzalez?
'
, Is it just that they were
caught red-handed in Demo-
cratic party headquarters at
'about 2:30 a.m. on June 17
"and that they have admitted
guilt on a certain assumption
that any jury would find
them guilty? Well, why did
their lawyer, Henry Rothblatt,
refuse to represent them in
the guilty plea? What's with.
all this cryptic talk by Roth-
blatt about his ex-clients
"following orders" in "a rad.
Rau fashion"? ,
Then there is the spectacle
of Judge John J. Sirica ac-
cepting the guilty pleas and
then trying futilely to get
?"the Miami four" to tell him
the whole nasty truth even
when the four were not under,
oath.
' Barker had wound up with
$114,000 in his bank account,'
but for the life of him he
just couldn't' tell 'the judge'
a thing about who gave it,to;
him. ?
"I don't believe you," the,
judge said to Barker, thusl
putting himselfalongside
millions of Americans who,
long 'ago were convinced that
the money came from Nixon
campaign funds.
The judge apparently had,?
? read the newspapers and,
knew about all the rumors
that higher-up culprits in this
bit of political criminalityl
'gave "the Miami four":
enough money and promises;
to' induce those confessions,
? Sirica wondered about all
legations that someone was,
still paying the four. No, no,;
no, they replied.'
The judge then asked them
point-blank whether anyone
suggested they might get
"executive clemency or,
commutation of sentence,"
or to put it less delicately,
whet h er President Nixon.
would spring them from priv,
on if they kept their mouths
Shut and took their medicine,
like loyal but lousy spies. ? ?
They produced more har.
liicony than a barbershop qUar-'
tet ? as they chorused, "No,.
your honor.', ? .
It is still too early to regard
this courtiown drapla,as.the
er
'great cover-up. Still to RAI
trial are James W. McC..rd
Jr. who was Security come'.
inalor of the Committee fort
the Re-election of the Presi.
dent at the time of the Wa-
'
tergate raid, and G. Gordon,
Liddy, a former official in
the White House and on the'
re-election comMittee, W
'shall see whether they ever
testify under oath, and hoe;
zealously the prosecution'
probes them for the full:
truth.
Then,
Judge Sirica lies
tough reputation of handing
out rough sentences. Not only,
will his sentences be watched,
closely, but the media and a
lot of other Americans wilt
keep a long eye peering to,
Ward the day when the White'
House starts fumbling withr
the key to the prison.
, On the surface, the Watert
gate business is such a ludie
crously bungled caper that I
Seems a shame to pay .so;
much attention to the
glers. But the hard reality rd2)
mains that it was more theiti
just a "caper"; it was aie,
atrocious example of men It
political power seeking to en-1
trefich themselves throligki
'lawlessness a n d obnoxittad
police-state tactics. That `rig
why none of us can afford'"
view lightly either the ine
dent Or the remarkable cousi
proceedings how under via'
27
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I 'i,"7,77.1171717":1;777"1:7771171.71
Approved For Release 2001/08/07 : CIA-RDP77-00432R000100070001-9
tittWA11ThGTON 'POT iVed;ie;der, Ja;t. 24, 1971,
Liddy ',cute
o t
By Lawrence-Meyer
Washington post awl Writer
Testimony in the Watergate
iniging trial yesterday indi-
Pated that G. Gordon Liddy, .
described IV prosecutors as '?
the "boss" of the bugging of'
7) enlocratic headquarters, had,.
In fact, ? been ? reporting to
Tither persons. , ? -
Answering ..questions from .
'Chief Judge John J. SIric?,
former Nixon :campaign treas-.
iver Hugh W. , Steen Jr. re-;?
Palled, a brief Conversation:
With Liddy on the morning of
June 17, only .is new hours of;
ter police had arrested five.
Men inside the Watergate. .
'Sloan quoted' Liddy, Who!
.?.Wite then finance counsel for
the Committee for the Re-:
Election of the President, as
saying to him in whet. at com-
mittee headquarters: ? ?
"My boys were caught last
,flight. I made a mistake by.us
ding someone from here, which
I told them I would never do.,
I'm afraid I'll lose my job." -,
Sinks did not ask Sloan it
he knew who Liddy meant by
"them." Sloan, a prosecution
Witness, was dismissed after.
'defense lawyers said they had
no questions to asktim.
? Earlier, Sloan testified that
Pinance chairman Maurice'
Stens and 'campaign 'director
John N. Mitchell approved dis-
bursements of about $199,090
to Liddy. Sloan also acknowl-
edged for the first time that.
he resigned from the. commit-
tee last July:. because of the
Watergate incident.
In addition.to Sloan, the three
'other Nixon re-election commit-
Ace Officials who were listed as
proaecution witnesses testified
yesterday about matters relating
to Liddy and gommittee security.
director James W. McCord Jr.
News accounts since the bug-
ging have alleged that the three
knew of the financing of a wider
_espionage operation against the
,Democrats. But that operation
Ji not mentioned in thelVtiter-
'gate indictment, and none of ?the
four was asked any questions
about it. .
In other testimony
Yesterday:
? Sloan and .Herbert L. Por-'
ter, scheduling director for
the re-election committee?
:both testified that they literl
destroyed records that showed!
disbursements they had made
to Liddy.
? Former deputy eampaign'
director Jeb. Stuart Magruder
said he knew nothing of the il-
legal bugging activities but he
did give Liddy political intent-
Once gathering assignmerlis.
Magruder gave only one exam-
ple of such an assignment and
was not asked to give more. ,
, ? Magruder testified that be
.hired Liddy for a legal job
Avith the re-election committee
?011 the recommendation . of
White Hottse counsel John
e liLeporl
ers, itness
-
Dean III, the man President
Nixon later assigned to inves-
tigate the bugging.
? Porter said $100,000 was
'allocated for Liddy to gather
Information on possible vIo
lence during the campaign by
having -persons Infiltrate the
,Yippies, SDS and' ? other
"radical" groups. ?
? ? Principal Assistant U.S.
Attorney Earl J. ? Silbert at-
tacked a column by. Jack An-,
derson for: "outrageous specu-
lation" and "virtually scandal-
ous ? reporting" because the
column suggested that initials
`found on-s piece of evidence
Might be those of re-election
'committee officials. -In fact;
Silbert said, the initials were
those of three FBI agents who
had marked the evidence. '
.. ? Robert C. Odle Jr., admin.
letrative director of the re-
election . committee, testified
that McCord had given him
17 memoranda concerning-Mc-
'Cord's activities 'as security
'director. Odle said "nothing
we ever received would indi-
cate" that McCord had set 'up
a 'listening post in the How-
ard Johnson's Motor Lodge to
monitor phone conversations
from the Democratic Party's
Watergate offices across the
street.
Liddy and McCord are on
trial on charges of 'conspiracy,
burglary and illegal wiretap-
ping and eavesdropping stem-
ming from the June :17 break-
in at the Democratic Party
headquarters. Five other per-
sons, including former White
House aide E. Howard Hunt
Jr., already have pleaded
guilty to the charges.
.Sloan, testifying in answer
to questions by Silbert, saki
he turned over a -total of about
$199,000 ? to Liddy from the
time, biddy joined the re-elec-
tion committee until ? June
,1972: Sloan said that before.
the April 7 effective date of
hew federal campaign finance'
reporting law, he made a final
'summary financial statement
and turned it over to Stana:.
Sloan said he "destroyed the
?eitsh book" -containing actual
records of disbursements.
Sloan first gave his account
of his hallway conversation
with Liddy under questioning
from Silbert, and said he did
not know what Liddy was talk-
ing about. He repeated it when
Sirica sent the Jury out and
questioned Sloan himself. The
judge then asked Sloan how
Liddy was to use the money
_Sloan had given him earlier. ,
"I was merely opthorized" to
distribute the money Sloan toil
:Swered. "I have no idea what
the purpose was.-- ?
?
"You ? didn't ;lineation, Mt
Magruder' about the purpose of
the $199,000?" .Sirica asked.? ?
; "No, sir. I verified with Mr.
Stens and Mr. Mitchell. ,Ile
;(Magruder) was' authorized to,'
''make those," . Sloan. replied.
Then Sirica Again asked whO'
lie verified it with, Sloan rel
'plied, "with (former Cbm-
merce)'Secretary Stang and 1
tdidn't directly but he verified.
it with Mr. John Mitchell." .
1 ?f "Didn't anybody Indicate
what this money was to bd`,
:Used' for?" Sirica asked. 1
. ' "No, sir," Sloan replied. 1
. ? Sloan is known to have told
friends that . he resigned -bei
,cause-Lin the words of one-4
-"he saw what was going-on'
'tit the Committee for. the Re4
election of the President afteti
the . bugging. InvestigatorS
-have said that Sloan cooperated fully,i?n their inquiry and;
.that they were convinced he,
,did not know that. the moneyi
be 'handed out would be spent
'fcir .undercover aetivitieti
against the Democrats. ??,:
, ??:,
Magruder, who left the re-4?
election committee the day af-'?
ter the election to direct prep-
arations for 'the President's!
Inaugural, testified that Liddy'
was hired in December, 1971,1
to do political, legal and intel-1
ligence work, In late Decem:i
. . ,
her, Magruder said, he andl
Porter discussed potential,
problems of violence they:
might, have aimed at the
? "surrogate candidates" who
would be campaigning for:
Presideht Nixon, e
Since . the stand-in ' candi-
dates would not have Secret,
'Service protection, Magruder'
said, "We felt we had to ,estab:,
listi our own lines of commii-
nitation. Magruder said he'
met with Liddy and Porter' foit
five minutes and Liddy then,
began gathering intelligence.
In January, 1072, 'Magruder'
said, he gave Liddy an addi:,
timed assignment to .find out
what ? kind of demonstrations!,
Were planned for the Republi-",
can ?coevention,. which wasi.
then scheduled to beheld in,
Sart Diego, For the two pro-.:
Jetts, . Magruder (laid, I.Jddy,/,
authorized to spend 1250,4
000. . ?
..
i,.. Magruder said he , had eti?4:
:phasized to Liddy that "acts Of
? otte comfnittee would he hen-
Aled in a legal and ethical
manner." ?? . ? .
,!. Asked what ?information
Liddy had proVided 'about the
convention? from the $150,000,
.intelligence operation, Magru-
der said Liddy found out that
-instead of the expected.100.000
demonstrators. the Republi-'
;tans could ekeept. 250,000. For
;?this reason, lite part,' the',a0n..
?.vention site Was changed to
,Miami, Magruder said.
t? Magruder said he never
igave Liddy .any Intelligence
"assignment. regarding the.
Democratic National CommlV-
4ee,or Sen. George McGovern
:On brief cross. exaininatiori
McCord's lawyer, Magrude'
said McCord "was one of our?
"more ?outstanding employes.'
k,Liddy's lawyer, Teter ' Marl
%otitis, did 'not question Magrtii
der.
Porter :testified that he
Mined 'about ., $35,000 frOtt
'Elopn to give to LidtlY., It Wit4
? `i hot, explained yesterday whY;
,..Liddy. got Some money, 'd14
teectly- from Sloan but had, tO!,
: deal through Porter, for othe '
:money. In ari, according to?teee
ttimony yesterday, Lidcly? got,
about $232,000. No accounting
:was given as to how that!
; Money was Used by,Liddy. Sit;
'bert has said the government'
e can account for only nbout,
;$50,000 of the total ?-e't
, Porter said he "threw away''
the records he had of the diSi!
libursements he made to Liddy':
i'Porter said he got three pieces
of information for the money
he gave Liddy, concerning a.
:,,"left-wing extremist group. in
i,New Hampshire," "tt right-
wing extremist group in Mi-
ami." and a "heavy potential
problem in San Diego."
Neither Liddy's lawyer nor.
McCord's cross-examined Per.'
ter.
Odle was the first of the rei
election committee Officials to
testify. Odle said one of Mc-
Cord's jobs, as security direc-
tor or the committee was "to,
be concerned with threats of
violence against the buildings
in which thee committee was
hoUsed." McCord made 're-
ports on possible violence t
him, Odle said.
Seventeen memo's from Me-,
Cord to Odle, Including the
May 30 one, were introduced
in evidence yesterday by Mc-
Cord's attorney. It is not
known whether the 17 meimail
were the only ones that Me?
Cord sent to Odle. Most of thd
Memos simply suntrnarie4
lipws reports of .demorietrni
bonibinge and other ine4 ?
dents Of violence.: ? ? 7' ? ? ;4 ,
One refees to the 'Pentagon-,
thatthe bomb was ipperehtlY'
ombing of May,'.1972. It Baste
'packed into 'well cavity 1)0:
hind a small steel door"An thit
,Pentagon washroom ? italic'
""Such ditoris Ifi, committed
Prestrooms' have been seeled,"
;McCord Said in the memo:
Another Memo dated, Deck
3, 1971; calls for' the control
1 Recess to the offices Of Mid
Cointitittee tot' the Re-pleati
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? ? n . ? ,
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1.the'Presinetit ??!'
IF 'One of the memos to Odle,
dated May 30?five days' after
'the wiretap and dealing with
Vietnam Veterans Against the
War?began with the . phrase
!'A confidential source,' of
ithOwn reliability has advised
phrase is .almost
'identical to one that Alfred C.
13ald*in III testified was used
by McCord In, identifying the.
source' of wiretapped conver-
sations. 'Investigators, . how-
ever, say they . are convinced'
the 'information 'did net tome'
,
from overhearing ..Nviretapped-
tonVersations.. ?
In his testimony Manday,?
Baldwin said he could not re,
member the name, of, the per-
'son to 'Whom he. once ad,
dressed a package containing
inemos of wiretapped eonver,
'sationg, and that he 'did 'net
,know from his "own personal
knowledge" who received oth-
er memos containing informa,
Von from the WiretaPS.
r, Earlier, The Washington
Post reported ? that Baldwin
:had told the FBI he saw me,
mos Of wiretapped conversa-
tions addressed on at least
6ne occasion. to William Tim,
Mens: special,' assistant to
President Nixon for emigres'
gional relations', and to Odle: '
Following' Baldwin's testi
-
Molly on 'Monday, .investiga-
tors said that the FBI's report
of Baldwin's 'original staZe-
ments was unclear and had;
in fact, referred to memos to
Timmons and Odle which . were
not based on information ob,
tamed through wireta4iinfl.
When they examined the
mos sent to Timmons and'
Odie, the investigators said,.
they could find no evi4once
that, the contents were rOtif.-?
tit'the ? wiretap at.... riemo-''
eratic headquarters.
Prior to yesterday's testi-
Sirica held a hearing to
'determine if four defendants
imIto. have pleaded guilty Should
litive their bond reduced. The
four,? Bernard L. Barker,
',rank Sturgis, Virgilio
zales and Eugenlo.11. Martinez
are being held in the'fiti.
in lieu', of $100,000 sorely
,bonds for each. Bunt has 'post-
ed the bond.
; At the' 'conclusion of ,the
hearing, Sines denied 'the re-
duction, stat! itg that :"tlie
temptation, to flee . folloWing.
their plea of guilty is presumed
he much greater" thamit
Was before their plea. ',TM*
.have had a taste of life in jailri
Sinks taid, "and i;
'they did not find life enJoyabla :
;or agreeable there." ??; !t;
; e
. . . ?,!.
nEwnEr7
2 9 JAN 1973
Now, It's the Wat r te Two
First they, were the Watergate Seven, I land Martinez reportedly still get stipends
then the Watergate Six?and last for their roles in the Bay of Pigs fiasco.!
week they became the Watergate Two. ! FBI agents working on the Watergate
Four more defendants decided, to.; 'investigation feared they might uncover;
plea.d guilty in the explosive politicall even closer CIA connections, NEWSWEEK
espionage case?as former White House l learned. Tracing the route of Republican
aide E. Iloward Hunt had, done the ! campaign donations to the Watergate
week before?intensifying the drum- I crew, FBI agents initially worried that
; fire of speculation over the inducements I they had, stumbled into a CIA transfer
they may have been offered. There system;
I
were reports that each mail had been specifically, they were eon-
?
? offered up to $1,000 for every month; cerned that a Mexican tnitldlernan who
had handled GOP funds migl also have
spent in prison after switching his plea.: t
as-
Some stories traced the funds te? "friends", been a CIA contact. But th,, CIA sured the G-men that' they bad not
in Miami's Cuban community, where the ;
; f struck any current agency oi orations? i
our had strong ties; others suggested,
the suggestion being that I and !-
McCord might have reactivate; net-
work they remembered from tti?ir i
ernment cloak-and-dagger days.
that the defendants were still getting:
money from the same source that had
ifinanced the Watergate operation from
1the start?presumably the secret coffers
I of the Committee for the Re-Election of
the President. But NEWSWEEK learned
I that a new fund, to provide financial
;support for the defendants, was set up
after their arrest by some well-heeled
;Republicans who hoped to limit further
embarrassment to the party by short-
circuiting the trial.
The defendants weren't saying. The
I:latest to bow out?Bernard L. Barker,
'Eugenio Martinez, Frank A. Sturgis and
1Virgilio P. Gonzalez?first fired their law-
yer, Henry Rothblatt, who had insisted
; on a trial, and then codessed ? almost
eagerly to the charges of conspiracy,
! burglary and wiretapping (maximum
sentence: up. to 55 years in jail and
$50,000 in fines). Under questioning by
; Federal Judge John J. Sirica, with the
; jury out of earshot, they claimed only
that Hunt and Barker had convinced
them that the Watergate caper was
somehow related to the fight against
Communism and Castroism, This, osten-
sibly, was enough to. appeal to the
anti-Castro sentiments of the defendants;
two of them, Martinez and Sturgis, had
:been involved along with Hunt and
Barker in the CIA-directed Bay of Pigs
operation. But who had, financed the es-
capade? Barker maintained that expense
:money .was mailed to him in unmarked
envelopes, and he therefore didn't know
the source. "Well, I'm sorry," said the
frustrated judge, "I don't believe you."
The four also denied receiving any
outside support after their arrests, or
promises of help in return for pleading
guilty?but NEWSWEEK learned other-
wise. Several reliable Washington sourc-
es said that the defendants were reCeiv-
.ing at least part of their current .funds
from Republican moneymen eager to
minimize the GOP's embarrassment. "As
, I understand it," one insider told NEWS-
WEEK'S Nicholas Horrock, "the kitty did
? not reflect approval of their acts, but
, simply a desire to do what they could
to relieve the party of the embarrassment
of a long and messy trial." .
! Pensions: I3eyond that, Horrock
learned that five of the seven defendants
Duress: In court, attorneys for the
two remaining defendants?McCord and ;
G. Gordon Liddy, a former FBI man and
White House staffer?called for a mis-
trial. The jury, they argued, could not !
remain unprejudiced after the unex-
plained disappearance of so many de-
fendants. But Judge Sirica turned them
,down and then attorney Gerald Alch '
1disclosed that he planned to defer4
McCord with the principle of "duress" ?i
a chancy strategy based on McCord's I
supposed fear that pro-McGovern leftists I
were planning violence against top Re-'
pyblicans "including but pot limited to.
., the President." Said Alch: "If one is un- I
der a reasonable apprehension?regard- !
less of whether that apprehension is in !
fact correct?he is justified in breaking a
law to avoid the greater harm."
Legal experts scoffed, noting that du-
ress is usually accepted as a defense only ;
in extreme emergencies. Even if there ;
were a plot, attorneys said, McCord !
could easily have turned the matter over
to the authorities. Alch's defense was
"aimed strictly at the emotions of the
jurors," said One former Justice Depart- .
ment attorney. "If he can get to one of ;
them who's deathly afraid of rioting left- !
ists, he might get a hung jury."
The jury was permitted to hear bare-
ly half of the proceedings. Jurors did '
hear a young plain-clothes man describe
:the arrests inside Watergate ("ICeep.cool
?you got us," said Sturgis, hands in the
air). But they trooped out of court again
as lawyers bickered over the testimony ?
of former FBI man Alfred C. Baldwin,
who admitted listening in on some 200
Democratic telephone conversations. The
government wanted Baldwin to describe
the contents of the calls in order to sup-
port a possible blackmail motive. But -
some of the wiretapped Democrats ob-
jected that their privacy was being in-
vaded, and the U.S. Court of Appeals
finally ruled out the testimony. When
the trial resumed, Baldwin testified that
? he once took his logs on two days of!
i tapped phone calls to CRP headquar-
ters and left them with! a guard?for de-
livery to a CRP official -whose name
'also receive money from the CIA, .1 Baldwin swore he cannot remember.
though for past services unconnected r 13y the weekend, the chances that the
with Watergate. Hunt and James 11..1e- i 'trial would produce complete explana-
Cord, who was security coordinator for lions were shrinking fast?and some Sen.,
the CRP and a security consultant for' ate Democrats moved closer to a full-
;the COP National Committee when he, scale inquiry of their own. They got!
was arrested inside Democratic head; some perhaps unexpected support
quarters, both receive pensions as re-
tired CIA employees; _Barker, Sturgis from the Nixon Administration itself, f
when Attorney General Richard
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r.
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WASHINGTON POST
27 JANUARY 1973,
Watergate Mistrial Denied-
By Lawrence Meyer
Washington Post Siliry andaaffWrlt r illegal wiretaPpint
Chief US' District litid" eavesdropping stemining
'from the June 17 break-in a
!the Democratic National Com'
anittee's Watergate hetuiqua
ters. Former. White House mil
sultant E. Howard Hunt
and four other men pleaded
'guilty in the trial that ended
its third, week yesterday.'
Sloan's testimony Wedne8-
day while the jury was out dif
fered from his testimony be,
lore the jury in several key'
Kleindienst promised to make all
FBI records in the case available to ?
'I them. "A jury trial," Kleindienst con- ?
rededi ns: not the best place to ex-
plore the ramifications of this. kind
;of thing for the political system." ? ?
,WASHINGTON, POST
.27 JANUARY 1973
CC;ininittee Fined $8,000
By Timothy
Washington Pos
The Finance Committee tot
Ile-Elect the President pleaded'
Ito contest yesterday in 'US.'
bistriet Court to eight viola-
tions of the elections financing
law, and Was fined $8,000.
!' It was the first time that a
campaign committee had been
found guilty since mailing
of financial reports first ?
be-
tflme an offense under the
Corrupt Practices Act df 1925..
By entering a plea yeSter-?
day, the finance committee
avoided having to account for
how it Spent the unreported
money or to respond to ? any
evidence presented by the
Justice Department.
"I've never seen the differ-
once between a nolo conten-
dere (no contest) plea and a
guilty plea," said U.S. District
Judge George L. Hart Jr., in
fining the committee the maxi-
mum of $1,000 on each count.
No individuals were charged
In the complaint, so a possible
onc-year jail term was not ap-
plicable. -
The charges were the first
hi be brought under the Fed-
eral Elections Campaign Act,
which took effect April 7, 1972,
and cited cash financial pay-
ments through the committee's
treasurer, Hugh? W.. Sloan , Jr.,
to its legal adviser, G. Gordon
Liddy. .
Liddy is a defendant hi the
;Watergate, trial. Testimony
has indicated that he received
more than $232,000 from the
commtttee for various assign-
ments.
The complaint charged spe-
cifically that Sloan gave $12,
000 to Liddy on two different
occasions In May and June,
1973, without obtaining re-
ceipts or keeping required rec-
ords on the purposes for which
the money was spent.
Also listed in the complaint
Is $5,300 given to Liddy after
May 10 by Herbert L. Porter,
scheduling director of the
committee. Porter has testi-
fled In the Watergate trial
that he gave Liddy a total of
$85,000.
,
rfObitISOTI
Staff Writer , .
Another account also-a-Cc-Use's'
Liddy' with ?failing to 'report:
spending An. additional $2;000.
Wheti the' Justice' .beparV
Ment , filed 'the -criminal ? torn'.
plaints two. weeks 'ago, 'a fin-
ance committee spokesman
Said ,that the complaints v "ak
legedly refers to technical,' and'
unintentional 'failures to' 'corn-'
ply ,with -Certain sections of a
toniplex new law., It" is the
policy of this,, cointratee to
fully cOniply with all election
laws. We have always sOught
to do so." ?
The Justice Department cam
plaints, known technically' , as
criminal informations, grew
out of a General Accounting
Office report in August that
charged the committee with 11
apparent or possible violations
of the Federal Election Cam-
paign Act.
At the time of that report,
Maurice Stens, finance corn,
,mittee chairman, denounced.
It as "incomplete and inaccu-
rate" and said it "reaches
false and unwarranted conclu-
sions.'
"We are gravely concerned
that this report, with its sug-
gestively reached conclusions,
has impugned the Integrity:
and good 'name of several in,
dividuais who have not, itif
our opinion and in the opin-
ion of legal counsel, violated'
any provision of the ? law,";
Stens added at the time. -;
Attorney Kenneth Parkin-
son for the eommittee would
not comment further on the
no contest plea yesterday,
Government attorneys indk
cated they were surprised by
the plea. ,
Judge Hart, asked what al-
ternatives were open to him
at the time of the plea, said
he could only accept or reject
it,/ and that the maximum fine
he imposed couldn't' have beohl
More at the end of a lengthy',1
trial.? .)
"The court is not an: inves-,
tigative ageney," Hart Said.
Olohn J.:Sirlea, despite., objec-
tion from both prosecution
and defense attorneys in the
yVatergate bugging trial, mail
tO the jury yesterday portions
testimony he had prevl-
tiusly heard with the jury not
Iresent. ?
; Silica explained before
reading the testimorip-:-given
by the former treasurer of the
Nixon re-election committee,
Hugh W. Sloan Jr., that' he
,Was. doing it to help the jury
'decide whether Sloan was tell-
trig the truth.
Sloan's questioning by Sir-
.1ca on Wednesday represented
'the Second time the judge had
?intervened in the examination
!of a witness. Sirica has as-
respects: ,
? Sloan, gave a different tte`,;
lount of what Liddy had said.
to him only hours after metro-,
,pblitan police had .arrested,
five men, including McCord),
'inside the Watergate.
, ? Since pressed Sloan to ex,
plai4 how $199,009 could haVe,
'beeti. given to Liddy without'
Iderted- his right to question
'? ? ? iiny ? apparent, accounting. t4
witnesses when he says he be- ? 'Sloan -as to how the mune
neves ."all the facts have not ' was being used.
been developed by . either- Sloan told Silica he hfl.
side." quit the re-election committee,,
's Before and: after he read because of the, Watergate inel"i
Sloan's testimony to the jury, dent. ?
!
Silbert told Shin yesterday'
Shin clashed with Peter Mar- ?
,
before the jury was brought ire oulls, attorney for defendant ,
that "there was nothing in Ml
G.' Gordon Liddy.. Maroulis
!naked Sirica to declare a 'Sloan's testimony' that/ was ai
trial on, the .grounds that the surprise to us or that We didi
ijudge's Feeding of Sloan's tea- : net know." But Silica's exam.;
illation 'of Sloan went beyond:
timony would give it undue
!
the point where' Silbert Indk ? weight in jurors' minds. ' ?
.; eated Wednesday that he hien:
Sirica denied the motion, 'self wanted to end his qua-
tacitly conceding that he was '
giving the defense grounds to -honing of . Sloan. .
? ? -a
argue for reversal on Maroulls did not cross-exam.:
Inc if Inc Sloan, explaining terday that he decided',
yes-
;Liddy is convicted. "I exercise ?
,my judgment as a federal -
!judge and as the chief judge against doing so to avoid
of this court," Sirica said. "As reinforcing Sloan's testimony
long as I'm a federal judge I'll in the Jurors' minds.
ontintie to do it. I could care , In the jury's presence o?!
less what happens to this case Wednesday, Sloan said he had
on appeal, I'll 'continue to do seen and briefly spoken to
'what I think is right at the Liddy the morning,of June it
;moment. in the committee's offices. "11
;
ran into him in the hall just, ,"Your client is smiling," Sir-i
'Ica said, referring to Liddy' outside of his office," Sloan
"He's probably not impressed recalled. "He was obviously
a hurry.. . He said to',
.by what I'm doing either. I
lon't care what he thinks. et- the .best of my recollection,
'My boys got caught last flight.
ther." ,
? , I made a mistake. I used some.,
' Earl J. Silbert, principal Iasi. body from here, which I said'
,sistant U.S. attorney and chief I'd never do. I'm afraid I ant
, prosecutor in the trial, told going to lose my job.'"
.Sirica he would rather recalL When Since questioned
Sloan, he gave this account:.
"To the best of my. recollee-
tion," Sloan said, "what he
(Lidd)) indicated was: 'My
boys Were caught last night. I
made a mistake by using,
somebody froni here which
told them I would never do,"
I'm afraid, I'm going to lose
'Sloan and let the jury hear it
"from the lips of .Mr. Sloan
rectly." ?
? "No," Silica replied, "Mn;
?:Sioan might have a lapse of
memory."
Sides then called the jury'
In and read to it the testimony, it
he elicited from Sloan Wed-
? escI
ay w ethe jury was not
present. Sloan had testified
about approximately $199,000
in re-election committee cam.paign funds he had turned
over to Liddy.
Liddy is standing trial along
with James W. McCord Jr., an.
tother former official of the
ommIttee for the Ile elect ion
of the President are
30 ;Charged with cOnapirt! but,
my Jo.,
Sloan was not asked whether
he knew who Liddy meant by
"them." Sloan is known to
have given this same account
of the conversation with Liddy
during earlier interviews with
federal investigators.
Sirica also drew from Sloah
'testimony that he had venue.
;With finance chairman Maurice
,Stns and campaign chairman
ilohn N. Mitchell that deputy,
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taMpaigri director .Teh Stitart
Magruder had authority to dis-
burse. to: Liddy Committee
funds that eventtfally .totaled
$199,000.
. Sloan had testified ? before
the jury that he had turned
over $199,000 to Liddy. "What
was the purpose of turning
$199,000 over tO Liddy?" Shin
asked out of the jury's, pres-
ence., ? . ,
"T have no idea," Sloan re
Plied. '
, Sinks: You have no idea?
Sloan: No, sir.
? Sirica: You can't give ns any
Information at ?all?
Sloan:. No, sir. I was merely
,authorized to do so. I was not
told the purpose. ?
Shim Who authorized you
to: Wm: the $199,000' over. to
Mr. Liddy in 'cash?
Sloan: Job, Magruder. .
,. Sinks: For, what purpose?
Sloan: I have no idea.
Sinn said he did not ques-
tion 'Magruder about the pur-
pose of the expenditures. "t
verified with Mr. Stens and
WASHINGTON POST -
28 JANUARY 1973
-1VIr. Mitchell 'that he (Mag-
ruder) was authorized to
make those," Sloan said.
"You verified it with who?','
Sirica asked.
"Secretary (former Secretary
of Commerce): Stens, the fi-
nance chairman, and I didn't
directly but he verified it
with John Mitchell, the cam-
paign chairman," Sloan said..
Silica: This $199,000 could
be turned over to Mr. Liddy is
what you ore saying?'
Sloan: Not the specific,
amount, but Mr. Magruder,
his authorization was'authoriz-4
anon enough to turn over the
sums in question.
Sirica: Did anybody indie:
ate to you by their action or?
by words or deed what thia
Money was to be Used for?'
Sloan: No, sir.
Shies also asked Sloan
question that had not been
asked by Silbert in question-
ing Sloan, Magruder or com-
mittee scheduling director
Herbert L. Porter, who testi.,
fled he gave Sloan about
en. Ervin May iiuiz
'0,o00::
Sirica: You don't know what
Mr. Liddy used it (the money)
for?
, Sloan: No, sir.
I Sirlea: No idea?
f' Sloan: No sir.
? Sirica: He was never qttes-
itioned by you or anybody else
What he did with the $199,000?
? Sloan: No, sir.
Silbert told the jury in his
Opening statement that of the
approximately $235,000 given
40 Liddy by the re-election
,committee, the prosecution
'can account for only $50,000.
4 Before Shies read Sloan's
testimony to the jury, Silbert
told the judge that the "in-
tensive" investigation that led
to the Watergath indictment
found that "Sloan Mid no pos-
sible remote connection, di-
rect or indirect," with the
,Watergate incident.
Assistant U.S. -Attorney
Seymour Glanzer pointed out
40 Sirica that Sloan had been
Interviewed by the FBI and
had testified before the grand
By Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein
Washington Post Staff Writers' ? ? " ' ,f
?' Sen. Sant J. Ervin (D-NC.)
itrapoena sonie of President Nixon's:
top aides in the forthcoming Senate)
Investigation into the Watergate bug
king and an allegedly broader' calm',
neigh' of political espionage and sabo-t
tage against the Democrats, according`
to informed sources on Carat& Hill.
? Ervin also intends to investigate the,
'government's inquiry into the Water,.
-gate incident and related matters to
determine IC it was complete. and im-
-partial, the sources said.
,
It is known that this Includes a de-
tailed review of the manner In' which'
the government's ,cttse has been pre-',
'Scented. Sources said that daily tran-
scripts of the Watergate trial are being
.Scrutinized by Ervin staff members.
Ervin, who will heed the Senate's'
? ?
investigation, is expected to be granted;
'Subpoena power An call anyone in the'
executive branch :of the government
-.other -than the -President himself, the
Sources reported.
It 'could not be learned which presi-
dential aides might. he called to testify.
.However, it is known that Ervin be-
lieves' that- any, White House officials
and presidential advisers who have
been named ha news accounts of ni-?
leged spying and disruption against
the Democrats should be given ti
Chance to have their names cleared.
If such aides do not testify voltinter-?
'Hy, the satires said. Ervin feels it is
'essential to force their testimony.
?Members of Ervin's staff are'drafting'
%.ti resolution that, if mused by the Sett-
ate, would grant him the broadest,
:Subpoena powers.
Ervin is virtually 'assured of reedy-
Senate approval Of the resolutton;.
'the sources said, because the praverfut
Senate Democratic Policy Committee,
the
14-me tither arm. of. the 57-tnembe
?
Approved For
Senate Democratic majority, has pro-
mised its full backing, "A
; Senate Majority Leader Mike Mans-i
field (D-Mont.) has said that the Water-i
gate probe and accompanying 'publie"!
hearings may result in the first actual,
test of I congressional power to force!
testimony from the President's closest:
assistants, should they claim executive':
privilege.
Presidential advisers from many ad'q
ministrations and both political partiekl
have asserted at times that they, have
an executive privilege to not disclose
to Congress confidential White llottse;,
business. It is this tradaition that the:
Senate Democratic majority inta 164
'cheated it wants to challenge.
Ott Jan. 16, Mansfield sent
eight letters asking, various'
'government agencies to pre-'
Serve all records that might
be revelant to the Erwin
investigation. the letters
went to the White House,
the Justice Department, the
FBI, the General Accounting
Office, the Republican Nation-
al Committee, the Committee
for the Re-election Of the
President, the President's cam-
paign finance committee and
'Assistant U.S.. Attorney Earl
J, Silbert, the chief prosecutor
in the Watergate trial.
The letters Said that The,
Senate probe would deal with
"the'allegations 'of illegal or
Improper activities during,
the recently convicted na-,
lional elections," and would
include four areas 'of inquiry:,
"The break-In at the Demo-,
erotic Nanette' Committee
headquarters in the'
Watergate"; "the reports of
political Sabotage and
espionage"; "the receipt find.
account ofcampain funds";
raid "the' practices 'and Proce-
dures 'of tho 'varitiut agencies :
ijtiry, Sitiett to-J*01111
The grand jury minutes, Glahl
ter -said, "Every conceivablS1
aspect of this case was gene;
Into."
"I'm . only concerned with
the , testimony in the eottrti
loons" Sinks replied. PI don't:
think it's up to me to be- eons
eerned with what goes on' in:
'the , grand jury. I'm not -.In-
terested in that."
Included to what Sirici
:read to the jury was a cotif-,
'erence held by prosecution an
defense lawyers at the bench,.
Liddy's lawyer, Maroulis,
arguing for a mistrial, said
Sirica's revelation' of what watt
Said during the bench confer
-
fence made him wary of
dis-
cussing points at the bench?
,"for fear they will latet....be
,reacrto the jury"
Shies again denied 1k/terabit.;
is' motion for a mistrial, Qtrat4
lug another federal judge', Sir-
tea ?'Said, "Any federal .rtidgi
tvho. Makes a decision With ode
eye on what the Court of Ai.;
peals might do ought to go*
0 off the bench." ?
WCOP'11 11
and officials in their investiga-
Hon of such ectivitieS,"
One ? sorace close to Ervin
said that the last area of in-
qttiry meant that "we are go-,
lag to investigate the investi-
'gators" to determine If there
was any political influence,
brought to bear on the con,
duct of the investigation by
the F131 and Justice Depart-
metal
Attorney General rtiehard
Kleiyndienst has said the
Watergate investigation by the
Justice Department and FBI'
was the most thorough and ex.'
haustive since the probe into
the assassination of President;
Kennedy in 1963. ?
Sources close to Ervin said;
the 76-year-old senator,A rela-
tively nonpartisan formei
state supreme court ? judge
wants the Watergate incident
investigated by a special- ad
hoe committee of the. Senate
Instead of by one of the regu-
lar Senate committees.
Ervin is chairmen of . the
Government Operationa Com-
mittee and the Judiciary Sub-
committee on Constitutional
Rights and is known as the
'Senate's outstanding authority
on constitutional law. ?
The right of privacy is one
Of his strongest convictions.
Last year, Ervin denounced
the delay of the Watergate
trial until after the November
elections.
Ervin has said that his
Watergate probe will not, be-
gin wail completion of the
bugging trial in U.S. District
'Court here, which ended its
third week yesterday. He said
he is looking for an attorney
of nonpartisan -background th
head -the investigative staff
hitt has but yo chosen one." ?
said that he has nd
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Ned- irate f811 ','ettblic hear:
ihgs, but that they would be
held some time this year.
The staff or' the Senate Sub-
el:initiated on Administrative
Practice and , Procedure,
Chaired by Sen? .Edward , M.
Kennedy (D-Mass.), has been
investigating the:. Watergate.
Incident and, 'related matters
ifinee Oct.,12.,Kennedy has e*,
pressed reluctance 10 head the
full-scale Senate investigation.
arid recently agreed with
!Mensfteld ? thet, ,an, , iequiey,
NEW YORK TIMES
29 January 1973
rosec11,11011 Ths
In Watergate Trial
? By WALTER RUGABER
tead del ISY ti.Vft '.votild he le 44!
Vulnerable to attack on polite'
cal grounds. The inforenlition'
developed by Kennedy's staff.,
which has been subpoenaing
records for three months, will
be: made available? ?to? Ervin
Senate sources. said. '
Much of the information obi
tamed by Kennedy's staff, aei
cording to reliable., sOurees1
deals .with the qUestioriv! et
.Whtte House involvement ht
the wider political espionage;
(sabotage operation as reported
in news accounts.
r Special to The New York Times
: WASHINGTON Jan, and the United States Attorney.
Demands for the appointment
, of a special prosecutor in the
' Watergate ease began a week
after five men were caught in
pemocrotic headquarters on
June' 17. , '
r Some of the demands were
, overtly political; others , ap-
peared nonpartisan. But al-,
.ways there was the question
of how vigorously the Depart-'
Ment of Justice, would pursue
' a 'case in which several Presi-
dential aides were involved!
and in which others?perhaps
, of higher rank?might be lin-
plicated. .
! That question has come up
again, implicitly but forcefully,
as the trial of two remaining
defendants charged with con-
spiracy, burglary and eaves-
dropping moves toward a ,
!.climax in the United States
District Court here.
,Doubts Intensified.
Whateter doubts may remain
in the public mind seem to
have been intensified particu-
larly by the actions of Judge
John J. Sirica,, who has pre-
sided over. the three weeks Of,
the trial.
Judge Sirica has said on a
number of occasions?most re-
'cently on Friday?that he does
not mean to "'haply anything"
ot to rebuke either the Gov-
ernment, or the defense for its
handling Of the case.
But he has also shown dis-
satisfaction 'with the ?questions
asked by the prosecution and,
to a lesser extent, the defense,
and he has examined witness
-
us himself. His tone with them
Mei often been incredulous.
, The lawyers arc most inter-
ested in a precisely drawn,
eight-count indictment, which
seven men were accused of
committing specific violations
of the law during a limited
period of time.
' 'There Are Limits'
, "This isn't the Warren Com-
mission," said an attorney who
Is familiar with the Watergate
'case but not directly inovoived
In it. "When you get to the
trial, there are limits to where
you can go." ,
The scope was to a large
extent settled, the attorney and
Other sources said, by the Fed-
eral Bureau of Investigation
diningt.he grand jury inquiry,
'that produced the current in-
dictinents on Sept. 15. .
The difficulty in assessing
the secret grand jury decision.
on how far the conspiracy
lwen and who should be
dieted was demonstrated vivid-
ly on Friday when Judge Snide
raised as an issue the, credi-
bility of a major Government.
witness, Hugh W. Sloan Jr.
Mr. Sloan had resigned as
treasurer of the Fit/Ince Com-
mittee to Re-elect the Pre&
dent after handing G. Gordon
Liddy, a former committee of-
ficial who is now a defendant,,
$199,000 in campaign funds.
, Judge Sifica questioned Mr.
!Sloan with the jury not pres,
ent and appeared skeptical'
about some of the answers;
which included a statement
that he had "no idea" what
had been done with the $199,1
000.
The Government , asserted
that Mr. Sloan had had noth-
ing to do with the. Watergate
affair, and Seymour Glanzer,
one .of the prosecutors, invited
the judge to examine the F.B.I..
reports and the grand jury.
transcripts.
' But Judge Sirica said he
would concern himself ,only
with "the lestimoey in this
courtroom." The testimony he
.'has been hearing deals almost
exclusively with the narrow in-
dictment and not with the wider
questions in the case, such as
whether the break-in at the
Watergate office building was
part of a wider espionage effort
and whether anyone beyond
those indicted knew about. or
profited from the spying.
Magruder Questioned
Jeb Stuart Magruder,. who
served as deputy director of
the Committee for the Re-elec-
tion of the President, was ques-'
tioned by the Government
about various intelligence as
he had given to Mr.
Liddy.
The "major" assignments, Mr.
Magruder said, involved learn-
ing the plans of ? potentially!
troublesome demonstrators both
at campaign appearances around
the country and at the Reptile-
Wan National Convention. 3
Mr. 'Magruder,. under exani.i
Maim by Earl J. Silbert, the.
*princiPal assiStalit ;yet gave tO Mr. LiddY? A. yee;
States Attorney, said that some did.
$250,000 had been budgeted
for Mr. Liddy's work.- The tes- = Q. What kind of 'record did
timony included the following book"maintain? A. It was a cash
exQchanngide: you' ,give him anyl itransactions.
reflecting in and out
other investigative Now did you ever mike
A. Yes, as / recall, I gave'
disbursements? A. Yes, I did.
final summary of your cash
snents? '
him a number of others. Q. And to whom did you
deliver 'it? A. [Former] Secre-
Q. Can you give an example?
, A. An example would be, Miry [of Commerce Maurice H.] t
there was a candidate for the!
Democratic nomination who,
Was known for his antipollu-
tion -stand, end there were
also news reports about some
of his suppOrters, financial
supporters particularly, one lit
particular being a major poi+,
luter, and I asked Mr. Lidd
as an example to see if there
Was any more to it than Voi
read in the newsPapers. ?
q. Mr. Margruder, on theaa,
assignments that you gave Mr.
Liddy, did he ever make re-'
Ports to you?
4? A. Yes.
Q, What was the form?
A. Primarily verbal reports.
Mr. Silbert then broke off
this line of questioning. There
Was nb testimony about the
'candidate's identity (presum-
ably the reference was to Sena-
tor Edmund S. ,Muskie), ,or
about exactly what Mr.
Magruder had wanted and re-
ceived, or about what he had
done "With the information.
Ties Not Developed
When Mr: Steen came under
direct eXamination by Mr. Sil-
bert, the cash transactions be-
tween the Nixon cmmittee and
Mr. Liddy undeveloped, for ex-
ample:
Q. What was the procedure
you followed in' giving Mr.
Liddy this amount of cash
($199,000)?
, A. He would indicate to me
he needed X number of dollars
and come to my office to re-
quest it, and I would provide it
to him.
The prosecutor then tulited
'to the question of how the
Money had been "paged
Later, howeVer, there was this
exthattge:
Q. Did you maintain any
!records of disbursements that
1
_a ns.
. Q. Did you retain any copiest
A. No, sir.
Q. What did you do with the
cash book after you had de'
Iteered the final summary? A.
Since the summary before es,.
sentially contained the neces,
sary information that was re
-
fleeted in this book, I destro
the. back-up book. ,
Mr. Stens, who served as IVIt'
Nixon's chief fund-raiser due.,
tog the campaign, has not been.,
subpoenaed as a witness at the
trial, It is understood that/ he
was i permitted to give grand
jury' testimony in the form of a
written statement.
Judge Sirica, Who was SP,
;tinted to the bench by Presit
dent Dwight D. Eisenhower, 0x.d
tracted from Mr. Sloan the liti,
formation. that the payments 'td !
Mr. Liddy had been approved,'
by Mr. Stans and through Mt,'
Sums by John N. Mitchell, thej
former Attorney General Whtf! ., .
for .a time was 'Mr,? Nixon' ! .
campaign manager. ? . $
. ; ?
.. A Case of Needling
!
The judge's examination' It-
duded the following:
t
, Q. Did anybody indicate' to;
You by their action or by wotds
Or deed what this money. wee:
'to be used for? A. No, sir.
Q. You are a college gradu4
ete, aren't you? ? ,
The Government did not nee.'
dle its own witnesses this way;
and sometimes the tactical reit!!
Sons for its failure to pursue
potentially useful point seemed*
to be apparent.
For example, Alfred C. Bald-,
Win 3d, a key witness who said
he had monitored a wiretap on
a Democratic telephone, testi-
iled that he had delivered
roavesdropping information Mt
neoccasion to the re-electlori
committee. .
NEWS & itQRLD OPORT
'20 JAN 1973 .
Washin ton Whispers?
Too Many Cooks in the CIA?
? Approved For Release 2001/08/07 : CIA-RD
?
?
Now expected is a thorough shake-up
of the Central Intelligence Agency.
Intelligence sources say the President
particularly wants to sharpen the
handling of the CIA's analyses of for-
eign affairs and international econom.
ics. One complaint is. that under exist-
ing procedure some of the agency's
excellent reports are muddled by the
time altthe experts get:their views in.
Approved For Release 2001/08/07 : CIA-RDP77-00432R000100070001-9
TIME
2g JAN 1973
TRIALS
The Spy in the Cold
"Well, I'm sorry but I don't believe!
you," said Federal Judge John J. Sirica.1
He was addressing four of the Water- !
gate defendants, and what he did not be-
lieve was their claim that they could
not remember who had supplied them ,
,with money. Even sums as high as
$114,000.. they said, simply turned up
un brown manila envelopes from none
knew where. Despite the judge's sharp
questioning. the four insisted last week i
on pleading ignorance?and guilt. That !
reduced the number of defendants from I
seven to two and also reduced the like-
lihood that the trial would ever disclose;
who sanctioned the conspiracy to bug
Democratic Party headquarters last1.
June.
The four?three of whom are Cu-!
bans from Miami?were talked into1
pleading guilty, TIME has learned, by.
the same man who recruited them into
the conspiracy in the first place: E. .
Howard Hunt, the former CIA officiali
who had pleaded guilty himself a week'
earlier. Hunt promised his four confcd-i
crates that unidentified "friends" would'
offer each defendant up to $1,000 for
every month he spent in prison, with
more money to be,paid at the time of t
his release (TIME, Jan. 22).
The guilty plea by the fotir defen-
dants staved off a prospective court-1
room uproar?testimony that Hunt had
told them the Watergate bugging had
been approved by the White House. spe- ?
cifically by two presidential advisers
?former Attorney General John
Mitchell, then head of the Committee1 ?
for the Re-Election of the President.
and Charles W. Colson. who at the time
was. on the White House staff as spe-
cial counsel to the President.
Castro. Hunt's influence over the ?
four dates back to 1961, when Hunt ;
was !a leading CIA official engaged in
. planning the Bay of Pigs invasion of .
Cuba. At that time, the four men were
convinced that Hunt spoke secretly for
I the U.S. Government; apparently .they
still are. In 1972, when Hunt recruit-
cd them into the Watergate conspiracy,
1 he grandly told them: "It's got to be
done. My friend Colson wants it. Mitch-.?
ell wants it." Colson is in fact an old
! friend of Hunt's; it was he who got
Hunt onto the White House staff in
1971 as .a $100-a-day consultant. Hunt
also told the four that their old enemy
, Fidel Castro was sending money in- ;.
,!directly to the Democratic Party in !
? the hope that a McGovern victory
!would soften the U.S.. attitude toward
;Cuba.
After the Watergate arrests, Hunt
, became more cautious, referring to Ad-
ministration officials merely as "my ,
; people." lie insisted that his people .
were prepared to put tip plenty of mon-
ey for the defense of the arrested men.
Of the $35,000 Hunt is known to have
received from his people, however, only !
about $8,000?or $2,000 apiece?has
!reached the four defendants. Vet the:
four men do not appear to be displeased;
1with the arrangement. To have worked,
with Hunt. one of them told the
.court, had been "the greatest honor."
?
"Under the spreading chestnut tree.
Approved For Release 2001/08/07 : C3rRDP77-00432R000100070001-9
hold you and you sold me." In an inter--
view with TIME Correspondent David
Beckwith, E. Howard Hunt quoted
those mocking lines from George Or-
well's 1984, and then he added defen-
sively: "There was none of that in any
.operation I ever ran. Nobody above or -
below me was ever sold out. I protect
the people I deal with."
! Hunt, a remarkable storyteller (who.
.has written some 46 novels as well as
an account of the Bay of Pigs fiasco '
?called Give Us This Day), decided to
:talk because "I've been taking a real
beating in the press. I've been portrayed
as an irresponsible adventurer, a des-
perado. And bring a photographer. The
!pictures of me at the trial have made
me look like a buffoon." For legal rea-
sons, he refused to say much about the
, Watergate trial, but he reminisced free-
ly other adventures.
"Let me tell you a story," Hunt de-
'dared. "The last wartime operation I
was involved in was an air resupply op-
eration in central China. We had a five-
man guerrilla team that hadn't been re-,
;supplied for months', so we went
I parachuting supplies out of a C-47 to
!them in a rice paddy. I went along as a
!cargo kicker, holding onto the chute
; wire and pushing the stuff out in a hur-
ry from about 600 feet. Two of us were
hit in the face by flak on the way back,
and one later got caught by the Japs
and skinned alive, but the point is this:
A team out on an unorthodox mission
expects resupply, it expects concern and
attention. The team should never get
I ?
the feeling they're abandoned. End of i!
Istory." . Hunt M . . makes no effort to hide his I
1
own sense of abandonment. "Nobody
has invited me anywhere for six
months," he says. "My family has been
harassed, my kids are teased and taunt-
ed at school. Most of my old CIA friends,
; people I worked with for years and
? thought I was close to, have cut me' off.
I had lunch last week with my daugh-
ter at a club in Georgetown and saw a
, CIA officer who worked for me in Ja-
pan. He looked right through me."
Secure. Speaking of the death of
his wife In a Chicago plane crash last:
' month, Hunt insists that the mysterious
;
$10,000 she was carrying in $100 bills'
was to have-been invested "in a newt
business enterprise Out there, a concern
? that might have provided me With a job
after I got out of jail." Turning a bit
maudlin, he remarks: "I've often wished
that it had been me .on the plane in-'
' stead of my wife. The Watergate would
have been over for me. My family
' would have been financially secure. And
i; the four children would have a mother !-?
? instead of a father wasting away in jail."
! At another point, as he spoke of trying
to explain his situation to his nine-year-
old son, he wept. Still later he referred
to himself as "a fish at the erid of a
line; I'm struggling hard, but it looks
like a pretty strong line."
Hunt joined the CIA in 1950 after
having served in the Navy and the OSS
!during World War II, worked as a LIFE
'correspondent in the South Pacific, won !
.a Guggenheim fellowShip in creative !
'writing and sold a movie script (Bimini
Run) to Warner. Bros. for $35.000. He
is proud of his 20 years in the CIA,.:
though he feels "the agency" has. treat- ,
ed him badly of late. "When they iden-
tified me as a former CIA officer right
after the Watergate arrests," he says, '
"they abrogated our agreement of ?
confidentiality."
As a member of the agency's "De- .
partment of Dirty Tricks," he worked
on. the operation that overthrew the
Communist-supported Guatemala re-
gime of Jacobo Arbenz in 1954. After
the coup, he recalls, "Arbenz and his
? people were stripped naked at the air-..
port and searched before they were al-
lowed to leave. One of his aides was Che
Guevara. If we'd let our Guatemalans!
start to shoot them, as they wanted, '
there's no telling when the shooting ;
would have stopped. It was a close de- ;
cision, and I have often wondered how
effective Castro would have been with- !
out the intelligence of that asthmatic lit- !
tle medical student from Argentina."
On his years in espionage, Hunt re-
Elects: "You sees our Government trains
people like myself to do these things ?
and do them successfully. It becomes a
way of life for a person like me." Of- !
ten he traveled under assumed names,
says Hunt, "to preserve plausible deni-
al," the phrase rolling from his lips so ;
smoothly that it sounds like an agency
cliche. Again and again he returns to !
the theme of an officer's loyalty to his
subordinates: "If your people are
caught in an operation, you do every-
thing you can for them. Money is the
.cheapest commodity you've got in an !.
operation like this."
Hunt retired from the agency in
1970. "The Bay. of Pigs," he says bit- !
terly, "really ended my chance for sub-
stantial advancement within the CIA, be
cause I was associated with it and the ,?
thing went sour." In 1971 he was asked,
to join the White House to plug secu-
rity leaks. "It wasn't a petty operation. ?
There were major leaks involving the -
SALT talks, operations in India. One leak
resulted in the extermination of one of .
? our agents in Asia. The Administration , ? ,
couldn't stand for that, and I worked ? ?
closely with the CIA trying to stop it."
Why did he get mixed up in the Wa-
tergate ease? Hunt admits that he had ;
!a political motive. which Ile dresses up '
rather elaborately. "There is a built-in
bias by the intellectual community, in-
eluding the news media, against people
who want to preserve the best of our
. country's heritage. As for me, I dont
Want to exchange the good of this coun- .
! try for the uncertainties of change."
Hunt also has a more practical expla-
', nation for his involvement: "I was not -
; aware that my activity constituted a fed-
eral offense. I never personally went
into Democratic offices, and I thought
!' the most they could get mc on was sec- ?
ond-degree burglary.'
; Hunt insists that he never thought '
! much or the Watergate scheme in the -(!'?
? first place. "1 cased the situation thor-
oughly, and I'm good at it. I appraised
; the risk lin bugging Democratic head- !
! quarters) as very high and the potential
' return as very low. I recommended ;
against it. but it wasn't my decision: I 1.
can tell you this: if it had been a CIA op-
trillion and I'd been in charge, It new
would have happened,"
? ??('.1
,-F7;11,71-777,1'7,77,7, 7,177'1:41;1
Approved For Release 2001/08/07 : CIA-RDP77-00432R000100070001-9
tIEW YORK TIMES
30 January 1973
Alleged G.O.P. Spy Avoids Full Inquiry
By SEYMOUR M. HERSH.
, ? spient to The New York Vine* 1
WASHINGTON, Jan. 9--The
Federal Bureau of Investigation
has made no attempt to investi-
gate fully. the ? political espio-
nage"and sabotage. activities al-
legedly conducted last year by
bohald H Segretti, a California
lawyer, who reportedly acted
under the direction of the White
Reuse ahd. Republican re-elec-
tion' officials.. '
e The .disclosure came as loth
sides rested, today in the trial
of the two remaining defend-
ants in the Watergate .case.
Well . placed Administration
sources italic, said that "Justice
Department-, officials learned of
some of Mr. Segretti's activities
within weeks after. the Water-
gate arrests last June :17,ebu
decided on the basis of, pre
ilininary 'interviews, with Mr.
Segretti that his activities were
legal and therefore beyond the
scope of an extensive F.B.I. in-
quiry: ?
e That decisioreWas reaffirmed
last October, the sburce said,
after newspaper accounts indi-
cated the full ?scope of Mr.
Segretti's activities, which were
said to have involved sabotage
'Attempts ? against Democratic
tandidates during the primary
election campaigns.
It was further ? learned that
-Mr. Segretti began his opera-
tions, Apparently on behalf of
Some White House officials, as
early as September, 1971, at
'about the same time E. Howard
Hunt, then a White Rouse con-
sultant, reportedly began organ-
izing his political intelligence
team. ?
, ? Mr, limit's operation eventie
I.ally' led- to the unsuccessful
'break-in at the Democratic
1National Committee offices in
!the Watergate' office ceinplee
here. ? e
? Mr. Segretti Is knewn to havd
:met at. least twice with Mr.
iHunt, in Florida and in Cali-.
;knee and he was once asked
?
. to help arrange a fake demon-
stiation during the Democratic
National Convention.
Sources said,, however, that
the Justice Department had
made no effort to determine the
full extent of Mr, Segretti
ne.tivities or to find out wile
placed Mr., Segretti in commit
with Mr, Runt. .
White House officials' have!
repeatedly said that they did'
not , know either about Mr.,
"Segretti's espionage operation'
Or the political intelligence ace,
tivitles headed by 'Mr. Hunt
and G. Gordon Liddy. a former
totinsel to the Republican re-
election committee. ? .
However, Dwight L. Chapin,
.President Nixon's appointments
secretary, was reportedly asked?
to leave his White House job
after the November electiciff,
'apparently because he:: was
named .last year as the White
House contact for Mr. Segietti.
Ronald L. Ziegler, the White
House press secretary, silbse-
quently confirmed that Mr.
Chapin was leaving. Mr. Ziegler,
denied that Mr. .Chapin was
being fleeced out or that his
decision had anything to do
with the espionage controversy,'
Before last October's news-
paper reports about Mr. Se-
gretti, three top Justice Depart=
Ment officials publicly declared
that every possible lead was
being investigated in the Wa-
tergate case. ? e ?
In a news conference Oct.
5, the last one he held, Pres-
ident Nixon depicted the F.B.I.'
inquiry into the Watergate
case as so thorough and come
pieta that it made the 1948
Congressional investigation of
Alger Hiss look "like a Sunday
School picnic." ?
"Let's look at what hap-'
petted," the President said.
"The F.B.I. has assigned 133
agents to this investigation. It
followed out 1,800 leads. It
conducted 1,500 interviews. I
wanetd every lead carried out
to the end because I wanted
be sure that no member of the
White House staff and no man,
or woman in a position of,
major responsibility had any-
thing to do with this kind of
reprehensible activity."
But officials of the Justice
Department and F.B.I. acknowl-
edged in recent interviews that
investigations early in the sum-
mer and in the fall of Mr.
Segretti's activities were cur-
sory at best, and the two
agencies blamed each other for
the lack of action.
"The cut-off came just when
Segretti went underground;
after the newspaper stories on
him broke," one F.B.I. official
said.
He added that the decision to
call off the inquiry had come
from the Justice Department's
Criminal Division.
"That's a matter of legal
judgment" with which the
bureau did not officially
quarrel, he said, "but I suspect
that there was discontent at
lower levels."
Henry E. Petersen, chief of
the Criminal division, refused
to discuss the Justice Depart-
ment's investigation in an in-
terview, but one well-informed
official categorically denied
that the F.B.I. was "called off
on anything,"
"The bureau called up and
said, 'We're pot doing any-
thing on Segretti," the Jus-
tice Department official relat-
ed, "and asked, 'Do you see
anything in this?'?" -
At this point, Mr. Petersen
A Democrat who was named
Assistant Attorney General last
year, queried the Justice De-
partment's Fraud Division, the
official said, and also found no
support for a full inquiry
on Segretti.
"He had no affirmative rec-
ommendations from anybody
on this," the Justice Depart-
ment official said. "If he had,
he:wouldn't have called It off."
Attorney General Richard. G.
Kleindienst, told' newsmen last
Oct. 24 that no inquiry into
the activitiet of Mr. Segretti
was planned "because as of
right now, Any evidence that
has come to us would not-in-
dicate the violation of a Fed-
eral law." ? ' ,
In a series of interviews, a
number of toast and present
Justice Department officials
argued that even without any
immediate evidence of wrong-
doing, the Government -had an
'obligation to investigate fully
the activities of Mr. Segretti.
One Justice Department law-
er'noted that the department
had' special 'procedures for
cases involving organized 'crime
figures or major political fig-
ures.
? "You look at everything
When you have a case like
'this," he said.' "It should be
fully 'explored in all its ramifi-
cations even though it may
appear not to be a. criminal
,violation."
e Other sources noted that the
:published reports of Mr: Se-
'grettrs alleged operations de-
scribed a number of ostensibly
Illegal activities, including the
forging of campaign letters and
the promise of future political
rewards in return for pre-
election support.
In addition, Mr. Segretti was
said to have been paid with
funds 'from a Republican fund
totaling at least $350,000 that
May have been collected in
violation of campaign finance
disclosure laws.
Lawrence R. Young of subur-
ban Los Angeles, one of Mr.
Segretti's close friends, has told
many newspapers that Mr. Se-
great said that Republican offi-
cials permitted hint to review
his F.B.I. dossier. Shortly be-
fore testifying before a Fed-
eral grand jury about the Water-
gate case. Mr. Young also
quoted Mr. Segretti as having
said that Presidential aides
coached hint before his grand
jury appearance.
At least '19 long-distance
calls were placed front Mr.
Segretti's telephone to Mr.
Hunt's between mid-March and
June last year, and at least one
such call was placed to the
home of Mr. Chapin.
Many other friends and for-
inter associates of Mr. Segretti
have been traced by newsmen,
usually through long-distance
telephone toll reports, and have
publicly told of having been
approached by the young law-
yer and asked to participate ill
a large-scale espionage and
sabotage operations against the
Democratic party.
Administration officials have
consistently discounted such
reports as hearsay and unprov-
able rumors. '
Mr. Kleindienst challenged
reporters last year to "get the
evidence to me that would in-
dicate that a specific person
has violated a special criminal
law and my department will in-
;vestigate it.
? But in a series of interviews
over the last two weeks, for-
mer friends, and associates of
Mr. Segretti said that they had
Bet been contacted by the
"rm inland, just abeolutely
'Oland thatsthey never celled
,me," said Mr. Young, "'a law-
yer. "I was so sure they were
coming I even had a -speech'
Iprepared." ? -' ? . *. e
: Among the things the bureau
Would have learned, Mr. Young
bald, was that Mr. Segretti ? had
told him of a Miami meeting
With Hunt in which Hunt "men-
. hioned hiring Cuban refugees to
lpose as McGovern support,
and tear up the inside of eth
Doral Hotel," the Miami Beath
hotel to be used by Mr. Mee
Govern as his Democratic cone
erention headquarters. ? 1
1 WASHINGTON POST
, 30 JANUARY 1973
Chapin Quit4
- , .: - -
: q
White houseA
,.
i.' Drnie8 Firing
'k1i' , 1;:inshtitrlY' st' tijorriPoCstsntanttonwt:Itet: ..: ?
..29 ? The White 'Ilouse an
: ltiler BISCAYNE; Fla.,eltin.,'
Inouneed today that President;
, NixOn's appointments. seercie
i;tary, will be leaving the admit-'
'?lstration, but denied that bil
?departure had anything to dd
;With political espionage active
,ities. .
Presidential press. secretary
iliwight Le Chapin, 32, would',
fleonald L. Ziegler, said that
,be quitting the White Housee
,this spring to .aceept a "verye
(flee business offer." Ziegler
itaid that neither Presidential,
'Assistant II. R. Haldemeh ?tore
.anyozie else in the administra-e
Mon had requested Chapin, WI
leave.4,1
1 "Dwight Chapin W '
as not','
etsked to leave the edministra-i
,tion, and any decision to leave;t
Is his own," Ziegler said. ,I
. The White House press see-e',
,
eetary branded es "incorrect
:unfounded and untrue" a story')
in The New Yerk Times which
?said that Chapin Was being'
forced out because he hacl:',
:been named in newspaper dls-j
closures as the contact man'
'for Donald H. Segretti, a Cale; .
fornie attorney who said hqi
!played' a major role In Repub4
,lican efforts to disrupt DeMO-,
erotic ? primaries and engege
in espionage ? whist Demtw
:crate ptesidential candidatesil
, On Oct. 15 The WeishingtOtt
4
Post reported that Chapin ace!3
..,,
ed as a "contact" in Washin. ,ge
ton for Segretti's spying activ+,
titles; according to federal:
,Sources and a sworn statemett
by a California lawyer Who;
,was a friend of both Chapin,
and Segretti. ? ? .
' In addition, the sources Sal
,?and numerous telephone .
calls confirmed?that Segretth '
had regular contact with for
mer 'White House consultant
E. Howard ? Hunt Jr. Hunti
,pleaded guilty earlier thief.;
1month to all charges against!,
him in the Watergate bugett4 ?
.1
case.e mtiazine reporte? d?titidi
.,
the Washington poet
34
Approved Eor Reie'a'20ol1g8i07,..: -cl*Rf-1,14?,{04Z,T,41,),9rqurf,Prlt,-,gr-j 10-1
Approved For Release 2001/08/07 : CIA-RDP77-00432R0001000700-01-9
:finned?that Segretti was paid
about $35,000 for his spying
activities by Herbert W. Kalm-
bach, President Nixon's per-
sonal attorney In California. .
Time magazine also later
reported that Chapin had ac-
knowledged he hired Segretti.
It is known that Chapin told
..the FBI that, he never asked
Segretti ), to do anything il-
legal.
i- Even before today's White
House announcement a high
i
White House official n Wash-
Ington, discussing reports of
Chapin's :departure, said that
)-"a second grader could see
what's happened. Of course it's
:the Watergate business. We'll
Stiever say that . . ? Dwight's
!one of the finest."
The official said Chapin is
?Personally looked,on with
'great. favor by Pesident
? Nixon, but that Chapin "got
caught in the. Middle."
' According to the official,
there has been "serious talk"
about Chopin leaving for sev-
erttl. months, and several busi-
WASHINGTON POST
30 JANUARY 1973
1tiessitien clOie 'to 'the White
House realized the situation
and have offered positions of
high pay and great responsi-
bility, to Chapin.'
The official said that The
New 'York Times report that
Chapin is being "forced out",
by Haldeman Is "too strong."
Ile Indicated that it was more
itt mutual understanding ,to
,ovoid possible embarrassment.
According to the official, Cha-
pin did not want to leave but
accepts the "realities" and is
,how looking on the brighter
side..
, Just as Haldeman is regard.
ed as the President's alter
ego, carrying out the his or-
,ders with energy and dispatch,
Chapin haa been regarded as
Haldeman's alter ego. ,
A brisk, efficient and , per-
sonable aide, Chapin not only
has, handled the President ap-
pointments schedtile, u rider
Haldeman's supervision b ut
has carried out such important
assignments as the ' advance
'Work for the, Chinese and Rils-
Ron trips:
ittWashington Post reporter
, One White House aide toldi
last year that Chapin is "a,
super loyalist" and is "super-
dedicated" to the Presidenti,
believing that he will "go down
In history as the greatest iiv-
big President."
Chapin first worked for Mr.I
;Nixon in the unsuccessful Call,
fornia gubernatorial campaign
'Of 1962, and then went to'
Work for Haldeman at the J.'
.Walter Thompson advertisingl
agency. ?
,
:. Chapin declined to accept
-telephone call from newsmen
today.,
At the Florida press briefing
today, Ziegler dismissed an In-
trinity about Chapin's relation-
ship with Segretti as "A queit-
:-ion from the past' and
refused to , discuss it. He did
Lay, though, that Chapin's
,effectiveness at the White
Rouse had not been hampered
by the publicity' surrounding
the Watergate affair.
; Chapin and Ziegler were
Icollege friends at the Univer-
?sity of Southern California,
and the 'White: House press
secretary said he had talked
personally with Chapin many
,times about his plans. Ziegler
said Chapin had "received al
:number of very fine 'offer*
from a number of very fine
companies" and indicated that
Allis was the motivation for his
decision. ?
"He made the decision t6
'leave because he decided Mt
'was the time to move to ,a busl-
ness career," Ziegler said. '
? Ziegler spent several minutes
lauding Chapin's "fine contd.,
'bution to the presidency" and
,deploring the news account
that he was forced to leave, At
one point Ziegler interrupted
his comments about Chapin to
,say:
? "Some people in this rooini
Al looking at eacivother With
41ceptIcalleye that Is ye
1in/fortunate."
By Lawrence Meyer
Wnehtnaton Post Stott Writei
The prosecution in the,
'..Watergate bugging trial de-
: scribed G. Gordon Liddy yes,
treday "the boss, the money.
? man, the supervisor" of the al-
leged conspiracy to bug the
;Democratic Party, a man "not
., content to follow out what he
was \ supposed to do" as a
'Nixon campaign aide..
Prodded by Chief U.S. Dis-
trict Judge John .I. Sirica, the
prosecution closed its case, the
.defense opened and closed its
..ease in a matter of hours and,
final- arguments were begun ;
yesterday?the '15th day of the'
trial. The case is "expected to'
; go to the jury today.
Liddy's lawyer, Peter Mar-
:, oulls, told the jury in a brief
opening statement that Liddy
had had a "shadow of guilt"
cast on him from ?E. Howard
Hunt Jr., a former White
House aide who earlier
pleaded WRY to the same
? charges of conspiracy, bur-
glary, and illegal wiretapping
,:and eavesdropping for which
Liddy Is on trial. "I intend to:
Show this shadow is without
Substance," Maroons said.
, Liddy and his .codefendant,
lames W. 'McCord Jr., both of .
whom worked for the Commit-
tee for the Re-election of,the
President 'before the JUne 17
? break-in at the Democratic Na-
..tional Committee's Watergate
:headquarters, are the only two
:tt emitInIng defendants of the
'Seven, Including Hunt, ,origi-
Approv
natty indicted. Four other men
besides Hunt, all from Miami,
also have pleaded guilty.
As Maroons was delivering
his opening statement, assert-
ing that both the prosecution
and defense concede that Lid-
dy's superiors at the commit-
tee "are on the safe side of the
line of innocence," Sirica in-
terrupted him
"Walt a minute now," Sirica
said. "Who made that
concession? Mr. Silbert (the
chief prosecutor)? You are ar-
guing what you think the evi-
dence is. This is for the jury
to decide."
MorOulls had asserted that
'deputy campaign director Jeb
Stuart Magruder, scheduling
director Herbert L. Porter, ad-
ministrative director Robert
C. Odle Jr. and campaign
treasurer Hugh W. Sloan Jr.?
all re-election Committee offi-
cials with whom Liddy had
freqUent contact?"are with
out involvement and Of course,
had no criminal intent." : ?
Shim said that if the jurors
,"decide that Mr.. Magrudet or,
Mr. Odle or Mr. Sloan are in-
volved in this alleged conspir-
acy, they can do it. However,.
they're not on trial. I ? Will
grant you that. They ? (the
jurors) can draw 'their own
conclusions from the evidence
in the case." ?
Shies has- repeatedly ex?
-
pressed his determination'
throughout. the ,trial to find
out who else, "If anyone," was
lergrkeletne11515t0egb . celbi
fl(
spiracy. When the five persona
who pleaded guilty entered
their plea, Sinks attempted to
question each of them to :de-
termine whether anyone other
than the; .seven persons in-
dieted was involved.
As a legal matter, however;;
the jury can do nothing more
in the case than decide the
guilt or innocence of Liddy
and McCord. It is not ,the
function of a jury in a crimi-
hal trial to formally diclose
any findings beyond a verdict
or to recommend further at-
tion at the conclusion of a
trial. . . .
Liddy afid McCord, will
called three witnessea' to tes-
tify yesterday concerning
their character and reputation
in the community. Each of the
six witnesses testified that the
defendant about whom he or
She was testifying had an ex-
cellent reputation.
? In presenting its case, the
prosecution called 51 wit-
items. ln addition to the 60
witnesses on its originarlist,
the prosecution called three
witnesses it had ' not an-
nounced at the trial's begin-
ning would appear.
Of file 12 witnesses not
called by the prosecution,'
three are FBI agents. Two
other. witnesses, Robert.
Schreiber and Mary Denburg,'
did not have to be called be-
cause their testimony was-
agreed to by stipulation, A.
sixth witness, Thomas Yann,1
is an official of Hunt's country.
anarentiy was notl
P77-00432R00010
'needed as a witness after Hunt
pleaded guilty. A seventh wit-
ness Margaret Johnson, of
Glendale, Calif., also was not
tabled because of Hunt's guilty
plea, according. to informed
sources.
The principal witness who
was not called was Jack Stew.
art, a former CIA agent del.
scribed by tie prosecution tot
a man Hunt attempted to re,.
cruit for electronic survelid,
lance activities. Stewart, at,),
cording to the prosecution, ra,,,
jected Hunt's job offer. Ste*
art's testimony was ruled btk
by Sirica. as being "too r6-1
mote" to the time of the
Ieged conspiracy.
- Twd additional witnesses-;-:
Diane Konowalski and Estherl
1Urby?are employees or fortn-{;
en employees of prosecutioni
witnesses who were called!,
The testimony of these tw6;
Witnesses was net needed, it 19
Understood, because it would
have duplicated testimony
given by others, ,
The two remaining witneik,
ses?Maria Marti and Sylvia
Campos?both are f r o
Florida. Their testimony, '16
is understood, would hav6
!involved purthases made be
some of the four defendante:
who pleaded guilty.
In his closing argument, Aus
sistant U.S. Attorney Earl 34
Silbert, the Main .prosecutor hi
the trial, emphasized LiddyV
'alleged role as the ringleader
In the conspiracy. At no Vine
010i7800*-9-ial began bag thi
!Trrr:71-7r -77,07,717.19,-
? ? ? ,
it ?
Approved For Release 2001/08/07 : CIA-RDP77-00432R000100070001-9
,WAStiiiGTON POST
.31 JANUARY 1973
te uestered'. jury been lit-1
formed that Hunt and four'
ether defendants have pleaded
guilty.
Silberttraced the testimony
in .the trial, recalling that 25-
' year4d Thomas GregorY, said
he was recruited by Hunt to
spy first on. Sen... Edmund S. -
Muskie's campaign for, 'the
Demo'cxatic Presidential nomi-' '
'nation and later on the .cam-
paign of Sen. George .
Govern., ? '
At one point, . Silbert ? rei'
Called, Gregory testified. that
Hunt picked him up In a car!
;at night. A. third man, wearing.
:dark glasses; was in the badlel
teat.
As he Spoke through 'gritted '
teeth, Silbert . turned and'
laced Liddy, who sat back in
his chair, rocking slowly, a
faint smile on his face. "Who
.was it?" Silbert 'gild.' "The 'de-
fendant Liddy; waving to you
as he waved so many times
throughotit this trial. A big
joke." As Silbert. spoke, Lid-
dy gave a brief wave with
his hand, a gesture he .has
Made several times to respond
to, witnesses who identified,
' .
Later, .Silbert recalled how.
Gregory had testified concern-
ing a meeting in the Manger-
Hamilton Hotel at 14th and K
Streets NW, attended by all
seven of the '.men. later in-
dieted. "And there you have
the classic conspiracy,": Silbert
said. "All the conspirators- to-
gether, plotting, planning, con-
spiring together."
Silbert also referred to testi-
mony that Liddy, a lawyer;
and Hunt had traveled to-
gether, using the aliases of
George Leonard and Ed War-
ren. "Since ,when does a law-
yer ? have to run around .the
eountry?Callfornin, Miami, in
his own city?using an alias if
he's engaged in honest, valid,
legitimate activity,!' Silbert
bald. .
After ? pollee arrested Mc-
Cord and 'the four men from
Miami inside the Watergate
On June 17 at 2:30 a.m., Silbert
recalled that Hunt had con-
tacted M. Douglas Caddy and
that Caddy had testified he
Spoke With Liddy at 5 a.m.
Caddy said-' Liddy retained
him .at ; that time as his own'
lawyer. "At 5 o'clock in the
morning," . Silbert said. "5.
o'clock in the morning .... Ev.t
eryone has a right, to retains a
lawyer, but at 5 o'clock in the
morning?"
Silbert reminded the jury
that a few days after the
break-hi Hunt's employer, Rob-
ert F. Bennett, testified that
Liddy ? called ? him. Liddy
wanted to meet him, Bennett
said, but not In his office, be-
cause he was afraid of surveil-
lance.
'Again gesturing toward
Liddy. a former FBI agent and
an ex-prosecutor in Dtitchess.
County, N.Y, Silbert said,
"He's playing cops and -rob-
bers, that's what he's doing..
Only, this time, he Isn't the.
Ex-Aides
eal
By Lawrence Meyer .
Wp.4411hatort Post Ellatt WrItri, .4
officials
Two former t
? .
'Prcsident Nixon's
re-dec..
lion comMittee,'-q:-Carribii.`
?'and 'James W. Me,?.,
Tor& Jr., yverc- ? coilVittbdi,
-.9.$tet*Y?c,C6?Gfinil
inky and bugging
;Democratic Party's - Water-f
!gate ileadqUirteri. : 4
After 16 days of trial span-
ning 60 witnesses and more.
than 100 'pieces of 'evidence,
the jury found them guilty of
all charges against them in:,
just under 90 minutes.
- Chief U.S. District , Judge
John Sirica ordered LiddY,'
who was also a former Whited
Itouse aide, PRI agent and ,
Prosecutor, and McCord, a vet-
eran of the CIA and the FEL
jailed without bond: Sinks'
said he would' hold a hearing'.
on bail after defense lawyers
file formai written motions.
Lawyers for both Liddy and
McCord said they would ap-
peal the convictions, with Mc,
Cord's lawyer attacking the.
condor! of Judge Sirica .dur-
ing the'lrial.
Five other men who Were In.
cop. He's the robber."
Liddy had been authorized'
by Magruder to carry out in-)
telligence activites, Silbert'
said, but Liddy was "not con-,
tent to follow out what he was
supposed to do. He had to:
twist it, to divert it." t.
McCord and Liddy "were,
off on an enterprise of their
own," Silbert said, biddy took
$114,000 in checks that had
been ttirned over, to Sloan as
campaign contributions, con-
verted the money to cash and
then gave it back to Sloan, Sil-
bert said. Liddy then todk
back $24,000, Silbert said, part '
of the estimated $232,000 he;
received to conduct activites
for the committee. The
$24,000, Silbert said, is "the'
money we have traced into the
possession .. . of the four per-
sons from Miami."
Referring to McCord, also a
former FBI agent and a for-
mer CIA employee; Silbert
said, "Isn't it sad. Former FBI
agent, isn't it sad, directing
the interception of telephone
conversations."
The "proof of guilt it to
overwhelming," Silbert told'
the jury, "that the only vet-
diet fair and consistent With
the evidence and fair to both
side's would be a verdict of
guilty on all counts in which.
they are charged." -
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?I !HI r$ ',,?'
dieted' 'With? Liddy, and' 'Me'
Cord, including former White
House aide and CIA agent E.'
Howard
Howard Hunt 'Jr;'' pleaded
guilty, early in the trial to all't
charges against theta:.
? Liddy, 42, 'liad paintained
balm', generally 'sniiling exte
rior throughout the 'trial. fie
Stood impassive, with his arms,
folded, as deputy court clerk:.
LeCOunt Patterson read the
JUrY'S 'verdict,' repeating silo
times; "guilty?' once for each
-of the counts againtttim.
McCord, 53, also showed no
emotion as Pattersen read the
Word "guilty" for all eight':
- ? ,
counts against'him. ,
Liddy; forMer Blinn& cetin-,*
'Set for the Committee for the''
Re-election of the President,'.
ebuld receive a maximum sen--?
lence Of 35 years. McCord, for-
mersecurity ,director for the'.;
committee, could receive a;
maximum sentence , of 45
years. Sirica set 110 date for
sentencing. ' ,
13efOre 'being jailed by deli.'
uty U.S. marshals Liddy on-,
braced his -lawyer, Peter L.
Maroulis, patted him on the
haek,'and in a gesture that be-
eame his trademark in the'
trial, gave one final wave to
the spectators and press be-
fore he 'was led away.
Prineipal Assistant U.S. At-
torney Earl J. Silbert said, af-
ter' the verdict was returned;
that it was "fair and just."
In hit final statement to the
jury, Silbert told the eight
'women and four men that
"when people cannot get to-
gether for political purposes
without /fear that their prem-
ises will be burglarized, their
conversations bugged, their
phones tapped . . . you breed
distrust, you breed suspicion,
you lose confidence, faith and
credibility."
Silbert asked the jury to
"bring in a verdict that will
help restore the faith in' the
democratic system that has
been so -damaged by the con-
duct of these 'two defendants
land their coconspirators."
Despite repeated attempts
by ,ludge Sirica to find out if
anyone else besides the seven
defendants was invelved in
the conspiracy, testimony in
the trial was largely tonfined
by the prosecution to proving
its case against Liddy and Mc-
Cord, with occasional mention
made of the five who had
pleaded guilty, ' The jury,
which was --, sequestered
throughout the, trial, was'
never told of the guilty pleas. '
When Hunt pleaded guilty
clan. 11, Stiles questioned hirn'
in an attempt to find out if
anyone besides the persons in-
dieted was involved in the con-
spiracy.
_Hunt's lawyer, William 0.
'Dittman, blocked Sirica's ques-
tions, saying the prosecution
had told him it intended to
tall Hunt and any other de-
fendant who was convicted to,
intify before the grand jury.
An apparent purpose of re--
rieWed grand jury testimony
Would be to probe the invOlve..
Inent of others In the liuggilig.1 '.
Asked yesterday what steps he'
now intended to take, Silber
said, "I don't think I'll cormil
!tient on anything further." 1
k".According to testimony .lrtj
the trial, Liddy ', was given,
About $232,000 in'' campaign;
ifunds purportedly to carry out
a number of intelligence-gath4
ering assignments given him'
hy' deputy campaign , director
Oeb Stuart Magruder.
'... ' The prosecution said -it'l
could account for ?lily abouti
$50,000 of this money, and that
It Was used to finance the soy;
,ing operation against, - thel
Democratic Party- , , -,???Ii
I In his agrument to the jury,
Silbert . called Liddy the; ,
i
"mastermind, the boss, the
tn
oney-rnan" of the operation,:
Maroulis, defending Liddy'
attempted to Put the blame ori: -
Hunt, who Maroulls said wet
Liddy's trusted friend. "Foni)
, .
tlie evidence here, it can' well.
134 inferred that Mr. Liddy gotil
h?rt by that trust," ,Maroullil
Id. , .,...1
.' McCord's lawyer, Gerald.,
Alch; told the jury that Me-
Cord "is the type of man Oki(
is ibyal to hittountry and vlin
does what he thinks is night.''t
At one point, Judge. Shim ini;.i
terrupted' and told Alch he
was only giving his ."personal
opinitm." i
Alch criticized Sirica during.1
a recess, saying the judge "did,
not limit himself to acting As til
judge?he has become in addi-
tion, a prosecutor and mil
investigator'.. . Not only doeti
he indicate that'-,he defend-
ants are guilty, but that a lot
of other people are guilty. 'the.
whole courtroom Is permeated'
with a prejudicial ,atmos-'.
phere."
.Alch said that' "in , 15 year
of practicing law" he had not
been previously interruptedi
by a judge wiiile giving his fi-;
mai argument. -
McCord and Liddy ? Were
each convicted ,t:if the follow.
ing counts:' .,
? ? Conspiring to burglarize,
wiretap and electronically,
eavesdrop on the Democratic
Party's Watergate headqua*
tert. (Maximum penalty?fiVe
years' imprisonment and ? 0
$10,000 fine.)
? Burglarizing the Debi&
eratic headquarters with the
intent to steal the property
Of another. (Maximum penaltY
...45 years imprisonnten0
? Burglarizing the .Demo?:;
erotic headquarters with 016z
intent to unlawfully wireth
and eavesdrop. (Maximum pen!
iity-15 years.) .
? Endeavoring to eaves',
drop illegally. (Maximum' pea'
alty?five years' imprison'
ment and a $10,000 fine.)
? Endeavoring to wiretap
Illegally. (Maximum penalty
--
five years' imprisonment and
a $10.000 fine.) .
? Illegal wiretapping. (Maxt.
mum penalty?five years' itIV
pri so n me nt and a $10,000.
fine.) .
!..?,..in addition,' MeCOrd ..Wai
1:
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Whyte-led of two addit tonal
counts: ?
? Possession of a device pri-
!barfly ,tiseful for the sutrep-
titious interception of oral
Comm unications. (Maximum
penalty?five years' imprison-
ment-and a $10,000 fine.)
'6 Possession of a device
primarily useful for the sur-
:reptitious interception of wire.
Communications. (M ax I mum
penalty?five years' imprison-,
ment and a $10,000 fine.) .
'Although the total number
`of , years Liddy could be sem:
lenced to adds up ,to 50 and
,y1cCord's total poisible sen-,
itetice adds up to ,60 years;
neither, according to legal
sources, can receive consecu-
tive sentences for both burg.
,lary counts.
, As a result, Liddy's maxi-
'Mum sentence c o it 1 d be 35
'kers and a $40,000 fine al-id
McCord's Maximum could be:
45 years and a $60,000 fine.
In 'addition to? Liddy, Mc-
Cord and ,Hunt. four men from
.Miami were named in the In
elictrnent?Bernard L. Barker,
Frank Sturgis, Virgilio II. Gon-
zales .and Eugenio R. Martinez;
All four pleaded guilty Jan.
15 to the seven counts. With
iWhIch they were charged.
They face ' maximum sent;
ences of 40 years in jail and
fines of $50,000. The four men
'Were arrested, with McCord,,
by Washington Police in the
bemcicratic Party headquar-
ters at 2:30 a.m. on June. 17,
the arrests marked the be-
'ginning of the Watergate Au-
??
These five men, dressed in
business suits, ,and wearing
tubber surgical gloves, had
electronic bugging equipment
and sophisticated cameras and
film. In their possession or
their t'ooms they had $5,300 in-
$100 bills.
The ' story .unfolded slowly.
The day after the arrests,. It:
Was learned that one of the
five men was the security co-
ottlintitpr for the. President's
Fe-election coMmittee., That
Was McCord, one of the two,
defendants left in the Water-'
-
gate trial yesterday,
. Two days after the break-in,
:White House Consultant Hunt
. .
!was. linked to the five sus-
pects. Hunt pleaded guilty to
all counts in the opening days
Of the trial. .
Near the end' of July, it was
learned that:the finance coun-
sel to the Nixon re-election
'committee was fired because'
hp refused to answer -FBI
'questions about the Watergate
bugging and break-in. The
counsel was Liddy, a former
Treasury and White House
aide who was the other de-
fendant to remain in the trial:.
On Aug. 1, The Washington,
Post reported that a $25.000,
cashier's check intended as iv
.Contribution to the Nixon re-
election effort bad been depos-
ited in ? the Miami bank ac-,
count of one of the Watergate
suspects. The General Ac.
Approve
Counting Office; the inveritiga,!
Bye arm of Congress, ordered
an immediate audit of the
Nixon campaign finances.
The audit report concluded
that former Commerce Secrej,
tary Maurice H. Stans, the'
chief Nixon fund-raiser, had a'
possible illegal cat!) fund of?
$350,000 in his office safe.
The $25,000 from the cash
lees check and another WW1
fi-om four, IViexlcati 'check*,
passed through that fund, .1114
GAO concluded, .`
Last Friday, the '.FIntinee:
Cornmittee to Re-elect" the'
President :pleadect no ,contiesp
. . ? .
In GS; District 'Court' td,erght
Violations Of the 'campaign, fP
nances law. The eOmplaiiit,
charged, among ,other:thingal
that finance committee :PRI!'
'Oats failed,. t6 keep ,adequatii,,
records 'of payments to
the committee..' "was ? fined
$8,000, : ' ?S :'?
. In' September, reParta?sart',
faced that a former FBI agent':
and self-described participant:
in the bugging had become tt
government witness in', the
ease. He was Alfred C. Baltl-,?
win HI, who later was tote.
tify that he monitored wire,
tapped conversations for three'
weeks from a listening post tri
the Howard Johnson Motor'
Lodge acrosa the street Rein
the Watergate. ?
? .
On Sept. 15, the ? federal in'
dirtmpnt "against . the,. seven
original defendants was `ere-
turned.
The net day, :The' Pogi re;
ported that . the $350,000 cash,
fund kept ? in' the Stens safe
was used, in part,-aS an' iritelIV
gence - gathering f u rt. On
Sept. 29, The ? Post repartee;
that Sources. close to. the
Watergate investigation Said!
'that fernier Attorney General
John., 14: Mitchell?,tontrolled
disbursements ?frem the, Intel.
ligence fund': or ' solcalled
"secret fund." ? ?
On. Oct. ? The .Post re,
'Ported, that the 1t had ctin
eluded 'that :the Watergate
bugging,was just onelacidet
in a campaign Of Political 6 I.
?nage and sabotage directed,
by the White House ? and. the.,
Nixon committee: ? '
? The sterY identified DOriald
H. Segretti, a young Califoraii
lawyer, as a paid Politital arty
Who traveled 'around the 'Conn-.
try recruiting -others. and dt!).
,try
the -camPaign6
Democratic prealdential
tenders. ,
'Five days later, the: Prat
-
dent's appointments 'secretary,
Dwight'L..Chapin, was identi-,
fied as' a 'person 'who" hired
Segretti and received reports.
.from him. Segretti's other eon-.
tact was Watergate defendant
Hunt:Sem:Ott received about
535,000 'in pay for the disrup-2.
.tive activities ftom,Herberr
Kalmbach, the President's: nee,
sonal, attorney, accordittal'tk
federal investigatnri.,- 7 '
.Thi a Mend* It 'a *n
flounced that Chapin we* 're--; -
signing his White ,House
NEW YORK TIMES
1 February. 1973
Watergate Conviction
, The conviction of two of the senior ufficialt lit Pres1.1
dent Nixon's campaign organization for criminal con-',;
,spiracy, burglary and wiretapping of the Democratic t;
'National Committee's Watergate headquarters proves
!that this sinister operation was no trivial escapade byl
.Unimportant persons. It was pati of a larger, far-flung.
',well-financed plan to use political espionage and sabo,1
,tage techniques to disrupt and defeat the political op*:
4sition. The intrusion of these police state methods intoi
'domestic politics is witho'ut precedent and deserves the;
mOst thoroughgoing exposure and condemnation.
The White House has dissembled again' and again in,:
a ,frantic effort to divert the searchlight ?of publics
suspicion from its own responsibility for this ugly busi2
rites& But thanks to the courage and tenacity of Chief,
';judge John J. Sirica of the United States District Court
'who presided at the Watergate trial, the public now haa
?on record sworn testimony that former Attorney General'.
John N. Mitchell, the President's campaign manager, and;
; former Secretary of Commerce Maurice H. Stens, Mg?
i'chief Money-raiser, personally pproved the disbuts&:'
' ment of $199,000 to one of the convicted defendants t&
i,carry out this espionage. Judge Sirica elicited that testP,
?Mony from Hugh W. Sloan Jt., the former' treasurer ()ti-
the Committee for the Ite-election of the President, afteri
the prosecutor in the case had unconacionably failed WI
.do so,
Mr. Sloan also testified that one of the convicted
'defendants told him after the police made the Watergate2,
:arrests: "My boys got caught last night. / made a mis-
take by using somebody from here, which I told theme
would never do."
' That testimony was not contradicted, hut neither didl
, Mr. Sloan explain who was meant by "them." It is tt
(fair deduction that senior White House aides as well Etat,
Herbert W. Kalmbach, the ?resident's personal lawyer.1
not only had knowledge of this repulsive operation buts!
also planned it, recruited agents for it, and received',
their reports.
Dwight L., Chapin, President Nixon's appointment
secretary, has been forced to resign because he has beerici
publicly identified as the White House contact for onei,
:of the agents. But no one who knows the amiable and.'
loyal Mr. Chapin believes that this young man is moreil
than the "fall guy" for others more senior than Maisel(
?in the White House apparatus who are still in office. ,4,?
!, "All the facts have not been developed by either'side,"$
Judge Sirica observed last:week to the lawyers for thi!
,prosecution and the defense. The indictments Were drawn
as narrowly as possible, and the Justice, Department hag:
ibectl less than ardent in exploring the 'case. ,
It is clearly the duty of the senate to go forward Wi.t.W
Its inquiry and make an unremitting effort'to Wert*
all of the higher-ups and all of the ,ramifications of ON ? ,
tailless conspiracy 'to subvert the normal exerelso-on
"political freedom.
*OireilielettStag CY0111AE011r : CIA-RDP77-00432A1000100070001-9
witness in
?
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WASHINGTON POST
31 JANUARY 1973
ri ? ri
Secret:
?
By Cart Bernstein
? and Bob 'Woodward
:"W.a0Inattin Post. Staff
Wotergate W
: bugging ',trial Was
. ? '
;Marked by questions not asked. of Wit-.!
'heises, answers not given, witnesses net ?
.alled to testify and some lapses Of mem-4r'.
-Inory by those testifying under oath;
?
News Annlysia '
of the seven original defendant
liti?the case pleaded guilty in the opening
?days of the trial, narrowing its senje
,from the start. ,
All seven men were indicted by a fett-,
Loot grand jury on charges of. conspiring;
YLo obtaininformation from the Democrats,:
;by breaking into their ? headquarters at:
'?'the ;Watergate, stealing their documents,1
iphotographing their correspondence, wirei
tapOing their telephones ? and planting
. .
electronic eavesdropping devices in their'
?
offices. ,
The presiding judge said repeatedly that:.
:he wanted the trial to probe deeply into.
'the bugging of the Democrats'. Watergate,
?headquarters?its sponsorship, funding,'
,purpose and 'possible relationship ,to al
legal ions of a wider campaign of political
-espionage and sabotage: ? ?
? But "all the facts have not been de.li
,f,veloped .by . either aide," ? ' District.;
t..:titirt Chief Judge John J. Sirica
:last week to lawyers for the prosecution!:
and the defense.
.??. ?.;
' Twice Sirica ordered the
'jury from the courtroom after
the prosecution's examinaAon
of key witnesses and then
questioned them himself about
? matters not probed by the
prosecution.
.On Jan, 15, during the trial's,
'second week, Silica addressed
four of the defendants aftert
they had pleaded guilty snd
outlined some of the issues he
said he .expected to be devet-
,operi in the courtroom'. Sirica
said that the jury is "going to
wonder who, if anyone, hired
you to go in there, if you were:
. ?
"I am just assuming that.
.they (the jury) will be asking
themselves these questions,'!.
? Siriea 'continued as the four:
men stood before him. "They.
are going to want to know if
there are other people, that is,
'higher-ups in the Republican
, Party or the Democratic Party;
or any patty who sic men-
tioned, or who are involved in'
',this case and should be in this.
. ease, you understand that?
"The question will arise, tin
doubtetily, what was the ma-
five foe doing what you people
soy you did," Sitica
'They will want to know
where. this money enme from,
who was the money man, who.
did the paying off. ... They are
'going to want to know a lot of
things before this . case la
? over." ?
Those questions could have
? ,been posed to witnesses from
three sources-government, at-
torneys representing the ores-.
LO Hired pies and Wli
ecution, lawyers for the ,de-
'feriae and the judge.
When the trial of the last
two defendants still on trial
=former White House aide G.
Gordon Liddy and James W.
McCord Jr., the former secur-
lty, coordinator lof President
Nixons' re-election committee
?ended yesterday in convic-
tion on all counts, the gilts
-
lion remained ' Unanswered,
'During cross-examination of
? government WitneSses, their
attorneys quite expectedly'
have not pursued the lines of
Inquiry, suggested by Judge'
Sirica.
,r
? The government,, for ;
'part, acknowledged that It'
knows the answers to many of
the judge's questions but can'
tends they are more inferenA
tial than legally conclusive= t?
And therefore should not have'
been raised by the prOsecutten
during the trial.
Last FridaY, Sirica rejected;
the prosecution's suggestion,
that he read the Secret
Airy inintites of the Case ?de:
find the answers to' some of,
'.his questions, and said he
Would continue Personally
interrogate witnesses when he
felt it necessary. ! ?
He then ordered that testi-
mony obtained by his own
questioning of S key witness
outside the presence of the;
jury, be read to the 12 mem-
bers of the jury.
That testimony revealed
that former Secretary ot Com-
merce Maurice H. Siam,' fi-
!Mince chairman of the Nixon
Campaign, and former Attor-
hey General John.N. Mitchell,
the President's campaign man-
ager, 'both had verified that
deputy campaign director Jeb
Stuart Magruder had author-
ity to approve cash payments
,to Liddy for an intelligence
,gathering operation.
The grand jury's 'indictment,
which was drafted by the
three prosecutors and ap-
proved by their superiors in
the Justice Department, dealt
only with the activities of the
'seven original defendants and
was limited to allegations the
'government believed could be
conclusively proven In court. 4
it mentioned none of the un-
dercover activities that the
prosecutors previously char-
acterized as "improper" and
"despicable." hat which, they
Said carefully skirted the edges
Of the law on moat: occasion"C
. Former White House aide F.
Howard Hunt Jr. pleaded
guilty in the trial's fourth dny,
and. the four Miami men at%
rested imide the Watergate on
June 17 followed his lead twO
'days later.
When the five detendanth
were dropped from the case,
it was no longer legally per.
niissible to admit as testimony
'the details of any Conversa-?
Bons they Might have had out.
1
' side the general period of the i
Conspiracy alleged in the grand
,jury's indictment?May 1 to
'June 17. ? . .
That applies to statementa.
,reportedly made by Hunt and
'some .of the Miami men that
,high presidential aides had a&
;vance knowledge of the Water.
'gate bugging and other under.'
cover activities against the
Democrats,
Since the guilty pleas were,
entered, the prosecution did
not call about 10 persons on
Its witness list who could have
testified about matters relatl.
lug to. the five men.
'It did not -call Hunt and the.
four others who pleaded guiltY,
As witnesses against the two.
remaining defendants. There
:wes legal precedent for 'Out-,
? ting them on the wituesg stand:
in the trial,, 'but the prosecu.j,
lion said it would' prefer to
being 'the five before' a grand':
jury for secret questiottitut!
about their knowledge of the
Watergate bugging and relat
ed matters.
. ?
"The truth will conte out,",
the judge. declared Mat Tuesf ?
day. Then he paused andi
'added: "I hope it will come'
out larthis case. And if I think,
should ask questinns
bring out additional facts thati
haven't been developed,
shall continue to do so.'
? That afternoon, Sirica ques-
tioned Hugh W. Sloan Jr., the'
?former treasurer of the Cont' ?
mittee for the lie-election ot,
the President, about the au-,_
thorization of large. cash pay-:
ments to Liddy?then finance;
einnisel of the Nixon commit-1
tee. ' ?
According to investigatort
end the prosecution, Sloan had
no prior knowledge of the'
Watergate bugging .or any,
other-espionage akivitiee
agains the Democrats. He'
quit his job when, sifter June
17, he learned! that money he .
had been disbursing was used!,
for clandestine operations, in-
vestigators have said.
In response to his original:
questioning by the proseenl
tion, Sloan testified TuesdaY':
that he paid Liddy $199,000 on"
orders from Jeb Stuart Magru-
der, then deptuy director of
President -Nixon's re-election',
campaign.
, Earlier; Magruder had teal'
tied that he approved the
1109,000 cash payments td,
Liddy for purposea of setting'
up an "intelligence network",
Which, Magruder sail, would
Use only legal methods to ob-
tain information.
Neither Magruder nor Sloan
was asked by the prosec3tion
who had authorized the?
payments to Liddy or who else;
might have known about the:
"intelligence network." Judge'
Sitica did not question tlagroi
der, a former White House'
nide who was the necoritt-in.k
'Command of the Nt1ton Ortiz,
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-r- 77777,7577, 717,71-7717'TS
APproved For Release 2001/08/07: CIA-RDP77-00432R000100070130.1-9'
iign committee.
? However, Strict, excuse,
the' jury and questioned Sloan:,
.the campaign treasurer, atj
'length. The judge asked Sloan,'
.41 question, including these;
'In the following exchange:
Shim What was the pur-
pose of turning $199,000 ovei;
to Liddy? ?
. Sloan: I have no idea.
,Sirica: You have no Idea?.
., Sloan: No sir. ? .
Silica: You can't give Us any
Information at all?
Sloan: No Sir. I was merebf
authorized to do so. I was not
told the purpose. -
Sirica:: Who authorized yoti
to turn the $.109,000 oyer
Mr. Liddy in cash?
Sloan: Jeb Magruder.
Silica: For what prupose?
Sloan I have no idea'. .
Sirica: You didn't quesiiati
Mr. Magruder about the pur;;
pose of the$199,000
Sloan: No sir. I verified with
Mr. Stam and Mr. Mitchell'
that he was authorized to
make those.' ' '
SiriCa: You verified it .with
who? ,
Sloan: Secretary Stans, the
finance chairman, and f didn't
directly, but he verified it with
John Mitchell, the Campaign
Chairman.
Sielea: This $199.000 tould
be turned over to Mr. Liddy is
what you are:saying?
Sloan: Not the svcifie
amount, hut Mr. Magruder, his
authorization .was autheriza.
lion enough UP turn over' the
sums in question.
As is customary of -govern-
tneilt ? witnesses in criminal
trials, Sloan had been told in.
Advance .bY the prosecution or
what he Would .generally be'
asked on the witness stand by:
the. government. When Sloan
had been questioned by the
prosecution about the $199,000
payments and Other morley
Liddy was authorized to re,
eeive, the relevant .exchangei
Went this. way: ?
Prosecutor: Did there come:
k time in the end of March or
Carly April when you had a'
conversation with Mr. Liddy
about: dash disbursements to
him?, ?
?Sloan: Yes , . . Mr. Liddy
Came to me indicating that he
was being authorized consid-
erable allocation of cash
funds. Itched with him at that
time what seemed to br,
budget which he did , not iihow
to me other than-the figures
On R. It totaled 1250,000. The
first, disbursement he indi..
cated he would need fairly.
shortly would be $83,000 with
'roughly $12,000 disbursements
following.
? Prosecutor: After Mr, Liddy,
gave you this informal inn
about the budget, the $250,000;
and the disbfirscment. relating
to the $83,000. did ydn' check
that With Job Magruder?
Sloan: Yes I did. ?
Prosecutor; 1V}int did lie tell
you?
Sloan: He Indicated that
this budget w-is in fact--this
allocation was th fact nuther-
Ized to Mr. Liddy. Ile loth-
tated, however, that he wished
In each specific ,instance ? to
Clear the amount and the. tim.
Ing of the distribution.
The' testimony of, Sloan tO.
Sirica was different from the
',interrogation by. the prosecu-
tion in other key respects. S1r:1
lcai unlike the prosecutiOn,:1
asked Sloan why he left the
Nixon committee and was told
he quit because of the Water9
gate incident and ". ' the'
internal situations that:existed/
in the committee at the time.".'"
Sloan alsd.gave a different:
'account to the judge of what,
Liddy had told .him 'the daY,
police had arrested' five 'then:
Inside the Watergate on, June
17. ?
When asked by the prOseetr-
tibry what Liddy had said
Sloan answered: ?"1-le said to:
the best of my recollection,:
,'My boys got caught last night.:
4 made a mistake: Used
somebody from here, which' t
said l'd never do. I'm afraid
am going to lose my job.',".
When Sirica questionedl
Sloan, he gave 'essentially' the
same account but changed the,:
phrase, used somebody:
from here, .Which I said I'd?
never 'do," to "I made a mis-?
take by using somebody from\
here, which 1:: bald them I,
would never do." ? '!
?
Sloan, however, was not
asked whether he knew Who
Liddy meant by:"them." '
Assistant U.S. Attorney Earl,
J. Silbert; the chief prosecutor'
In the case, told' Sirica later:
Meat "there was nothing in Mr...
Sloan's testirnony that was a
surprise to us or-that We didl
not know." .
Silbert 'presided over the
grand jury that, investigated'
the Watergate bugging andy
the prosecution received the'
F131's field reports in the case.'
lAmong ?them were report?
describing interYiews with the
four officials of President Nix.,
on's re-election, committee
who testified in the trial Ttica-
day.' The four,-,who also ap7
peared before the' grand jury,,
'were Herbert L. Porter, sched,
tiling director of the -Nixon
campaign; Robert C. Okle, di-
rector of administration; Ma,
gruder, and Sloan. All are ex-
White House aides. ?
? Federal investigators" have
'told The Washington Post that
as much as $750;000 in Nixon
campaign funds was expended
on espionage and sabotage op.,
'erations aeninSt. the Demo-
crats and that Mitchell, 'Ma.,
gi?tufer, Porter and titans were
among' high campaign and.
While House officials who had
authority to receive or ap-
prove such cash payments
from Sloan.
Neither Judge Sirica nor the
prosecution asked any of the!
Nixon committee officials on
Tuesday whether they knew:of
anyone in addition' to those
four persons who received or
approved such payments. Nor
were they asked 'whether the
money received by LiddY was
the only cash Sloan disbUrsed
fer elatititatine operations.
Among such payments, ac-
Cording to' federal investiga-'
tors; were at least $25,000 to
Magruder; and a minimum of
$35,000 to Herbert W. Kalm-
bach, President Nixon's per-
tonal lawyer and until April 't
the deputy finanae chairman
Of his re-election campaign.
Investigators reported that
Kalmbach, who Was also inter.
viewed hy,the FBI, gave the
money to a California attor-
ney, Donald Segretti, to spy
im and disrupt the priMary
ampaigns of various Demo,
cratic presidential candidates.
The nanie ?,'of Segretti, who
also was interviewed by the
'FBI and appeared before the
Watergate grand jury, was
struck from the !prosecution's
proposed list of vitnesses at
about the same time, that the
government learned that How,
and 'Hunt wanted to plead
guilty.
?According to federal investi-
gators, Segretti was recruited
to participate in spying and
sabotage operations by Dwight
L. Chapin, President Nixon's
appointments secretary, and
reported on his activities to
both hunt and Chapin.
Testiniony either from or'
About Segretti, who federal in-
vestigators say was not in-'
'Volved in the Watergate bug,'
iging but received other under..
!Cover assignments from Hunt,'
might have dealt with some of
'the broader questions ,Judge
Sirica said he wanted an.:
swered at the trial.,
' In an account lly The Los
Angeles Times, Assistant U.S.
;Attorney Silbert is repotted to
have said that Segretti "would
',have to he tied in with some-
:thing Illegal" to be called as a
'witness, and that there is no
evidence he broke any laws.
"Silbert agreed in an inter-
view that allegations about
Segretti, if true, could place
the Watergate case in a larger
perspective for jurors," The
Times account Said,.
Many of the broader issues
posed by Judge Slrica t were
explored in detail by the FBI,
particularly in its questioning
of the four Nixon committee
officials who testified Tues-
day. Among the questions cov-
ered by the !FBI, but not
raised at the trial:were:
.? Who conceived the origi-
nal idea for the "Intelligence
network" mentioned by Ma-
gruder in his testittiony, And
who gave final approval to the
plans? According to investiga-
tions, the decision to under-
take undercover operations
against the Democrats was
made in the White House as a
basic strategic element of the
President's re-election cam.
paign and the plans were di;
rected by presidential aides at;
the Committee for the Re-eleco,
(ion Of the President.
? what Information was re.
ceived for the $233,000 in cam,
Orden funds, which, according
to court testimony, was given
to Liddy for intelligence Work
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39
'and who?beside ? Porter and
?received informa-,
;Hon? Magruder and Porter%
mentioned four items of ill.'
formation they received: date'
about an anticipated demon,
stration in Manchester, N.H,;
by a left-wing group.; Infor-,
mation? about right-wing.
demonstration in Miami; indi-
cations that as many as 250,00o
demonstrators *Could 'be ,est.,
pected at the Republicans'
Hal' convention site of San;
Diego;, and information about:
"tnajor 'polluter" who wua!
giving financial support -.to if
Democratic presidential candi4
date.
According to investigators,1
additional information. web
ceived from Liddy, some of IC
directed to Other officials ritt
the White .1fotise and thei,
Nixon re-election committee.,
o What other 'intelligence)!
assignments d i d Magrud0
give Liddy? Magruder testi,
fled that there were "a mire
, hoer of others." He was asked,
f by the prosecution to give an'
? example and mentioned the,i
investigation shout the major]
polluter and the Democratic,
,presidential candidate, neither
',of whom he named. Aceorditli
to investigators, the eandlili0
was Sen. Edmund :5, Muskiei:
apparently. the. Principal' tar-
get of the Nixon campaltn'a
'undercover operations.
. 0 Why' was' the $2.35,000
never accounted for by ?re.
'sponsible campaign officials irt'
either internal aridits or Cam-
paign spending reports filed,
,With: the General.- Accounting
'Office? In its. opening :State-.
Ment, the prosecution. ,./gald
that federal investigaterS haf:,
Only been able to trace $60,60
of'the ? '
. 0 Why were records. of. t16
'transactions involving thp
$235,000 destroyed, and 'what
other records relating. 'to ? tin-,
dereover activities. :were,
Idestroyed?..Porter end -Sloan,
testified that they ,.destroyed
,their records because they ditt.
hot 'see any. need 'for; them.'
Odle testified that, hours aftei''
the Watergate break-lh, lie led,
(Liddy to the biggest Oath'
shredder in the offices' of the
Committee for the:Re-election`
of the President. '
0 Why did the Nixon ra.
election committee, which
coil-
ducted almost all Of Its- bus!-],
fleas by check, deal with'LiddY:
in cash?most, of It in, 411.0p?
bills. Testimony in- the WO
has shown that the seven Men
Indicted in the case used. $196:
bills on at least 14 oec'asioria
buy plane tickets, pay for hild
tel rooms, radio receivers',
meals and other 'expenses,/
One hundred dollar bill
,which the judge ??hafi., gait!.
"were floating around Mite
coupons," were found cm tiii
five men arrested Itti `the We
tergate. ?....
Why'did Nixon comnifttO
Officials feel it was neebaStork
to hire lb college-age stndentthi:i'
to Infiltrate left-wind, fordtitiar.
Porter testified that the 1.0,
iititenlefirjo fere .,to .."0801MlIcitji
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Approved For Release 2001/08/07: CIA-RDP77-00432R000100070001-9
einseivei, I HU) such
oganLA-
tions as the Yipples and the.
SDS and nther such radical
groups.", He said. , the - Nixon.
committee was "not privy to a
lot ,of the information that,
lay, the Secret Serviee had or
the FBI or state and local gcol-'
eriiment police agencies might
hive on the activities of theee
groups." Did the Nixon coin-
initteeofficiala believe the po-
lice and FBI would not pro.
vide them with the necessary
information? ,
On lan..,11, the *fourth day
Of the trial, when :fennel'
White House consultant How
ard Hunt pleaded *My,
Judge Sirica firat began_ his at-
tempt to probe ? more deeply
Into the motives behIncithe al-
leged conspiracy.. , ?
-Though Htint Wes- mietinder-
oath, Sirica called him lei ;the':
bench and asked Hunk how. he
got into the. alleged ',c6rispit..1
acy:: Hunt's attorney,- Williatti-
O., Bittman,. intervened . atitt;
aid It might be 'improper for'.
Hunt to answer ? the ?queatitni!,
, because. Mint would be. called"
before the grand jury later to,
answer such question
:eret. Sirica dropped the linc
of questioning. ,
. ,
? When. foUr other men, "a1P
.from Miami, pleaded ? guilty;
Jan. 15, Silica called theft be--
lore him ,to answer similar,
questions -- Again not under?
Oath. Since asked Eugenio /1.'
Martinez, one of the ,Mianil de-,
fendants,' the 'following Mid-
tions: - ? ?
Sirica:. I want you to stirt
, NEW YORK TIMES
20 January 1973
-from the beginning and I- Win(
You to tell me how you.. get'
into this conspiracy, how ? didi
it happen that you got'
involved? Do you Understand
what I mean? . . ?
Martinez: Yes,`J'understaiitt
?Slrica: Tell, me ? in your :Ciwi:1
Words What you did,' how.' YOU',"
got mixed Up.(1,n,
. . , ?. ?? .
? Martinez:' I believe.. the heir
that you ,have : read: in ..the,
charges (indictment) are tine;
and are Just to the truth. ;?;::
Sirica:: That is a blanket' in-,
ewer. I want to know. specifics."
, Martinet: I am. Softy..
.?
...Snick' I., want specific *
linere to riiy qneationa.',I tire
nottatisfied. ? ; " " ?
:nice , not, get specific'
'answers. Martinez repeated
the charges in the indietnieitt
and acknowledged their truth.
The four Miami men; who ire'
'either Cubans or hav,e . *St
Ales with Cuba., said they Were
hot paid, except for expenSee
,and:!)Poa.hl.ein),..01v.,e4;,becauSe.
ttney, thought their, "Iiptienia ?
Would help. frit Cuba 'franfiot-
del eistro'Sible
NumereusvrenortS and giiv-
ernms.nt reeerds say :that all
four, .worked ;At One Utile or an-
'other for .the CIA. Sirica
asked them,ifthey had. Iii :got
'.ensWers.' of.' "No,' your
honor"' or ? "Not that :I' knew,
your honor."'
?When defending': Beritardi-1:,:
Barker; a Miami real 'estate'
agent; was Asked who Sint IBM
$25,000 cashier's check le-
'tended for the President's, re-
entagon Paper 'Secrets'
Cited in Public Document
By MARTIN ARNOLD
Special to The New York Vines
LOS ANGELES, Jan. 19?The Pentagon paperS trial, ip
'only the second day of testimony, went right to the heart
today of the defense's legal position: That much of the
spring of that year could have
helped Hanoi plan last year's
Tet offensive.
Dr. Daniel Ellsberg and Ah-
bony J. Russo Jr., the defend-
ants, are accused of stealing
eight pages Of the summary of
the document along with the
Pentagon papers themselves
memorandum, and, by impli-
cation, making them public, an
act that the general said was
directly harmful to American
troops in Vietnam and, there-
fore, the country's national
defense.
The defense elicited that Gen-
era Depuy himself had helped
edit the document that the
printing office sold. That docu-
ment was entitled "Report on
the War in Vietnam: Com-
mander in Chic? Pacific: Com-
mander U. S. Military Assist-
ance Command Vietnam?'
The comparisons were ittade
through the use of slides that
Material contained in the top
Secret papers had long been
lit the public domain.
The defense presented in
Court a United States Govern-
Ment Printing Office publication
that WAS available to the gen-
eral public for 56 a copy
early in 1969. The defense
pointed out that it contained
Much of the tame information
that the prosecution contends
injured the national defense
When it was made public, in a
different form, at a much later
dat.e.
?It was the second day in
which Lieut. Geo. William G.
bePuy, a prosecution witness,
Underwent cross-examination
by the defense. Yesterday, and
again today, the general insist-
ed that a 1968 Joint Chiefs of
Staff memorandum on the ef-
fects of the Communist Tet
Offensive in Vietnam in the
"responded: - l'rdr a ""defitliti
'fact. r cannot state who tent
that itionezr 't .? ? - F
The, fudge later ' asked:
; you think ' it ivalt
*range', that amount of Mahe,
';Coining through the', mail With-
'Out - being registered .' 'Or
,APYt
garKet, ' respetided:'. "NO,
'elOn't. think it is strange; Pith'
honor. Like I said,I have tie&
before this ' been
leolVed in ',Other 'orieratiefie
Which, took the ? strangeneSil,
Out of that as Ott. as Urea eortv,,
derned."
'
Later ,Sirieri said., "i On
yOU,'r when Berk
'geld he. got the money "in the
'Mail', in a blank envelope." '
kThen, according to the:04,
dial chilli transcript, :the fetit
t'in cherus". answered 39 guts-
tions. . They enswered.? with
hem'!" when asked
if they were coercedt to plead
'guilty, or given any money or
promises. and ? '"Yes, your
'honor"' or' "Yes,' :sir" When'
asked if they were ..gtillty-t,t6,
each Of the 'seven charges, in
the Indictment against them.
? On Monday, ''..Judge Shit*,
questioned Alfred' C. Baldwin
III, it former FBI, agent and
??
key prosecution witness whb
testified that he . Monitored
Wiretapped telephone calls St
defendant McCord's instruc-
tion. In earlier testimony, Bald-
Win said that McCord% usually
Ireceived the logs of the mein.
flared ? eonversationt, but: that
once 1,in June McCord %had
were shown to"the Jury.
Thus, the 1968 Joint Chiefs
of Staff memo, which General
Depuy said was dangerous to
make public, said this:
"He [the enemy] committed
over 67,000 combat maneuver
forces plus perhaps 25 per cent
were impressed men and boys,
for a total of about 84,000."
The general said that this in-
formation, in the Joint Chiefs
report, which was written in
the latter part of February,
1968, could help Hanoi evalu-,
ate American and South Viet,
nam intelligence, and was "sem,
sitive" even now, in . his
opinion.
But Leonard Weinglass, an
attorney for Mr. Russo, using
a slide, showed that in the
report sold by the Government
Printing Office early in 1968,
Geri. William C. Westmoreland,
Commander of the Army in
Vietnam, had written, and Gen-
eral Depuy had helped edit,
this statement: '
"The let offensive Was ex-
ceedingly costly to the enemy
throughout the country. Be-
tween 29 January and 11 Feb-
ruary the Communists lost
Isome 32,000 men killed and
5,800 detained, out of an esti-
mated force of 84,000."
The 1968 Joint Chiefs of Staff
memo said, "Probably the only
major unit to escape heavy
losses was the 7th NVA fNorth
Vietnam Army] Division. How-
ever, present dispositions' give
the enemy the continuing capa-
bility of attacking in the Saigon
area with 10 to 11 combat el-
lialdneh deliver the loge,
the Committee fen the
!election of 'the President:'-