MEET THE PRESS

• Document Type: CREST
• Collection: General CIA Records
• Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST): CIA-RDP75-00001R000100150001-0
• Release Decision: RIPPUB
• Original Classification: K
• Document Page Count: 19
• Document Creation Date: November 11, 2016
• Document Release Date: January 4, 1999
• Sequence Number: 1
• Publication Date: July 17, 1966
• Content Type: TRANS

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PLEASE CREDIT ANY QUOTES OI EXCERPTS FROM THIS NBC RADIO AND
:T LE ,"TI. S ON PROGRAM TO "MEET T111,,' PRESS .
M E E T H E P R E S }}S
f7roc t?[~..'. t, d?b.F .LS f"iwrence... E. Spivak
, 157
:provided for the information
:and convenience of the press,
Accuracy is not guaranteed..
:In case of doubt, please
: c he c with MEET THE PRESS.
SUNDAY, JULY 17, 1966
Admiral William k . Raborn
Former Director, C.I.A.
PIS EL John Steele, Time-Life Magazines
Max Frankel, The New York Times
Robert GaraLski, NBC News
Lawrence E. Spivak, Permanent Panel
Member
MODERATOR: Neil Boggs
MR. BBOGGS : This is Neil nogcgs, inviting you to
f. 11
MR. BOGGS ; Our guest today on MEET THE PRESS is Admiral
William F. Raborn, recently retired. Director of the Central
Intelligence Agency, Admiral Raborn is widely recognized
the developer of ? he Polaris missile system. He succeeded
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John McCone as head of the CIA in April, 1965. Now we wii:1
have the first question from Lawrence E. Spivak, Permanent
member of the MEET THE PRESS panel.
M3. SPIVAK: Admiral Raborn, the Senate is engaged in a
controversy over the question of adding members of the
Foreign Relations Committee to the committee that now
overseas the CIA,. Would you say that it makes much difference
to the CIA what Senate committees oversea it?
ADMIRAL RABORN: It has been the position of the agency,
and it was my position too, Mr. Spivak, that the oversight
activities of the Congress were distinctly the business of
the Congress.
MR. SPIVAK: May I have your opinion. You are out of the
CIA at the present time. What is your personal opinion,
does it make any difference?
ADMIRAL PA13ORN: Well, I stated my opinion. My opinion
is that this is a matter which the Congress itself would want
to resolve and it is not a matter of con(,' ecture by me.
MR. SPIVAK: Do you mean to tell me, ' Admiral , now that
you are a private citizen, you have no opinion on a matter of
that importance that might be of great help to the American
people if you did give an opinion?
ADMIRAL RABORN: As a private citizen I would make my
views known to the people who have to do with such mattersf
namely the Congress, and I think I must be appropriately
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reticent about commenting on the responsibilities of responsible
people.
MR. SPIVAK: Admiral, it was reported that you refused to
give members of the Foreign Relations Committee any
information on sources and methods. Can you tell us why you
refused?
ADMIRAL RABORN: Yes. I am directed by the Congress,
the Congressional-Act that set up the Agency, J?ublic Law 80-253
of 1947. It specifically charged the Director of Central :,ntel?
ligence with safeguarding methods and sources of intelligence
and it has been the practice of all previous Administrations
since then and under the current Administration, that we
would report fully on these activities to the Oversight
Committees set up to oversee the activities of the intelligence
agencies and bodies of the United States government.
MR. SPIVAK: Admiral, as you know there has been a good
deal of criticism and even hostility in recent years against
the CIA. 'Would you say that any of the criticism has been
justified?
ADMIRAL RABORN: Oh, I am sure that none of us lead
a blameless life. I think there has only been one Person
ma.. kind
I believe in the history of who has lived a blameless
large I w9u.d say that
life, but by and the criticisms have been largely based on
inaccuracies and are not justified at all.
MR. SPIVAK: TWhat is your explanation for the rising tide
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of criticism against the CIA in recent years?
ADMIRAL RABORN: Well, I think that this is in the nature
of the organization. It, of course, has to be secret and
this fact that it has to be secret was recognized even by
General Washington in an original letter that I have in which h
stated that secrecy in intelligence matters was a primary
essence of intelligence.
I think that the American people have not had the Central
Intelligence Agency and other intelligence activities of the
United States government properly explained to them and
this is one reason why I gladly accepted your kind invitation
to appear on this program because it is a wonderful
organization, one that is extremely vital to the United States,
the security of the United States, and one which. they can not
do without.
MR. SPIVAK: Now may I give you an opportunity to make an
explanation on one matter of great importance: Senator
Stephen Young of Ohio was recently reported as charging that
the CIA has become an invisible government answerable
only to itself. Now how would you answer that charge?
ADMIRAL RABORN: I would say that this is a complete
fallacy.
MR. SPIVAK: What about his charge that the CIA was
employing a small army in Vietnam?
ADMIRAL RABORN: I would say also this is a complete
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fallacy.
MR. SPIVAK: You are not hiding behind CIA secrecy when
you make these general refutations, are you, Admiral?
ADMIRAL RABORN: No, I am just answering them directly.
Trying to.
MR. SPIVAK: The CIA has been charged also with stirring
up insurrections and sometimes running little wars. Would
you say that that too is a false charge?
ADMIRAL RABORN: I would say that the activities of the
Central Intelligence Agency, the clandestine activities, are
relatively small by comparison to the major weight of
their activities in other fields and that any activities of
this sort is in conformance with the approval of the National
Security Council and in furtherance of United States policy.
* * * * * * * * * * *
,111 MR. FRANKEL: Admiral, since so relatively small part
i of the Agency's work is, as you say, clandestine, since much
of it is analytical, scientific, collecting well-known
1 information, do you think that part of the trouble and
2 misunderstanding of your critics is due to the fact that there
2 is too much secrecy surrounding the Agency?
2 ADMIRAL RABORN: This could be so, but I rather doubt
2 it. As a matter of fact, I doubt it sincerely. The nature
2 of our work is that we of course make these reports, as you
say, to the Administration authorities and to the Congress,
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that we make it on a "need to know" basis, give it to the
people who have a need for it.
Obviously it would be unwise to make this general
knowledge because of the delicacy of the matters.
MR. FRANKEL: For instance, the total budget you
operate under, the total number of employees that you have,.
You have been in secret projects before, Polaris ?r-- the Pentagon
has many secrets. Yet the overall activities, the extent of th!m
are known. And I know that law forbids you now to talk about t ..e
budget and the number of employees, but is this really
necessary, is so much mystery necessary?
ADMIRAL RABORN : Yes indeed it is. If we knew, for
instance the exact --- I am not saying we don't -- the exact.
numbers that the KGB, we will say, employs, and their
budget, it is quite possible for one intelligence service to
!I
determine the effectiveness of the other and their capabilities
if you know these salient factors. You can work it out, piece
it together, little by little. So this is a very tightly-held
secret.
MR. FRANKEL: Let me ask you about another aspect of the
secrecy: When we tried to determine from the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology and other universities who have
done, I understand, very good work for the agency, they told
us that you insist that they not tell us the size of the subsid
they get from the Agency, that often they can publish material,
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but they can't identify government money behind it. Thy does
that have to be so?
ADMIRAL RABORN: Well, I think this is not necessarily
restricted to the CIA. This is common practice in many
classified projects from all departments of the government., it
is just information that we don't want loosed to the hands of
foreign intelligence services.
MR. FRANKEL: In connection with that there has been
another controversy recently. The United States Information
Agency, for instance, is forbidden by law to propagandize within
our country. Yet some people have suggested that you have
allowed your men to write in American magazines,that you
have supported books that are published in the United States,
magazines that circulate in the United States, without ever
telling the reader that they are getting government material,
that they are getting official points of view.
Do you think that is right for the CIA when,say, the
USIA is not allowed to do it?
ADMIRAL RABORN : Well, let's put it this way: The Agency
is accused of many things and quite a bit of it is most
inaccurate. Specifically, now, as to permitting the
scholars who are a large part of the Central Intelligence
Agency, they feel a need to publish objectively information
on situations existent around the world. To the extent that
they can be cleared from a security point of view, they add to
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the general. understanding of the public, and this goes bac.c
Lo your problem of secrecy, now, a general understanding
of the public of the actual facts in a matter under scrutiny,
and it is a public service. Whether or not a writer
should be identified as a member of a government agency I think,
that is a matter for the Department concerned to make up their
riiind5 upon. It has been the past policies of the Central Intel
ligeance Agency not to try>dt on a' name but to let the work
stand on its own merit, which is the way scholars like to have
their work considered.
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MR. FRANKEL: Don't you think it is important that we
the readers know that when a scholar comes with material
that this is really material that has been cleared
as officially acceptable at least by an agency of government?
ADMIRAL R.ABORN : "Acceptable" connotes something that I can't,
buy. Let's say that they represent facts or objective. If t
are objective and factual that is the thing that should be
brought out. The Central Intelligence Agency does not write
articles in support of administration policies or anything
of that kind, so I don't like to get that connotation in
there.
I think it is an open question whether or not scholars in
the future should identify themselves. As a matter of fact, I
rather perhaps think they should. I like to think that the
Central Intelligence Agency can be more widely accepted as a
good, worthwhile member, church-going member of the family of
departments that make up rur_ fine government,
i4R. STEELE: Admiral Raborn, you told Mr. Spivak a minute
or two ago that a lot of the criticism of CIA stemmed from
inaccuracies. I want to ask you if perhaps there isn't a
different kind of criticism that is stimulated, one perhaps
stemming from our enemies on the other side of the so-called
Iron Curtain, Are you conscious of any attempt to undermine
the CIA, to question its validity from not-sympathetic sources
ADMIRAL RAI3ORN: Yes, indeed, Mr. Steele.
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The Communist intelligence services are working night and
day, twenty-four hours every day around the world, to unc.er-
mine the effectiveness of the Central Intelligence Agency and
of democratic processes and institutions around the world.
We know that, for instance, there is a "Department-D"
known as the "Department of Disinformation." And the KGB,,
Lt. General Yagayansi, I believe, is the head of it -- this
is no secret -- who spends their time in trying to under-
cut truly democratic institutions and agencies.
MR. STEELE: What does this Department D do about the CIA?
What activities are you aware of?
ADMIRAL RABORN: They float stories around the world and
then the Communist press picks it up immediately and puts it
on the air and prints it in the newspapers. Generally these
stories are completely false and they have just enough
truth in them to be twisted all out of shape.
MR. STEELE: Has this activity of this Soviet department
made things more difficult or is it really more of a joking
matter around the world?
ADMIRAL RABORN: I don't mean to just single out the KGB.
All foreign intelligence services that are opposed to the
democratic way of life and the true democracy such as the
United States represents, engage in these activities and it
is part and parcel of their work and they, of course, are
out to discredit anything that tends to thwart their nefar-
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ions activities.
MR. STEELE: Well, it has been said quite often by out.-..
siderr that the CIA really is locked in a deadly battle
with this Department-i) and the KGB, Do you feel that is
going too far or is the competition such that it really
does amount to a. serious battle?
Ai)#?ii#AL RABORN : I think that the Central Intelligence
Agency is but a small part of the national effort to per-
petuate truly democratic ideals and freedoms around the
world. We do have a significant part to play but I think
we shouldn't overdo it.
MR. GORALSKI: Admiral, aren't you unwittingly helping
the KGB by not denying some of the stories that they are
1 iti~ 'A`1r6tve ''Poi` a ~ Fib' F Olt`-' 'o+Ro6blo6it60dl-aroun#~
circulating? Leery time we call the CIA, we, as newsmen,
we always get nothing but a "No comment."
ADMIRAL RABORN : Well, sir, this is the policy, which is long established and it has generally been recognized over
the years that you deny no stories, good or bad, you accept
no praise and you try to ignore criticisms. Because they
are largely uninformed, in both cases, and you never know
when to stop once you get into the practice.
There are those in the United States government that from
time to time e-_, such as the Secretary of State, such as the
Congressional oversight committees, knowing the facts, get
up and do, for the record, straighten things out. Unfortunate
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9 tize
the world as some of the accusations do.
MR. GORALSKI: in the light of this criticism of the
CIA of late, are you having trouble recruiting Americans to
3 work for the Agency?
41 ADMIRAL RABORN: No. Let me say this. This is one of
2
2
2
Sal
the real wholesome things that I can say. The fine, patriotic,
really outstanding men and women who apply for lifetime
employment with the Agency every year. The people of the
Agency come from more than 600 universities. Seventy-seven
percent of them have college degrees and about 20 percent
have a Masters or a Doctorate.
MR. GORALSKI: I wonder if I could ask you a question on
Vietnam. One of our concerns is that we don't really have
enough information on what Hanoi is thinking or for that
matter Peking as well. Do you feel we know enough about
their own attitudes right now or could we get a better
insight?
ADMIRAL RABORN: I would say, Mr. Goraiski, no intelligent
service is ever satisfied with the amount of information that
they have and in a closed society where the efforts of a
nation are closely controlled in the hands of ten to 12 hard-
lined, close-mouthed men, it is quite difficult to get into the
minds of those men. You have to read their actions in order to,
get their line.
MR. SPIVAK: Admiral, one of the grave concerns in this
country is that Communist China might enter the war in
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Vietnam if the U. j. furthers its eE.: --alation. Can you give
us an opinion on that, your own opinion?
ADMIRAL RABORN: I guess this would be a very difficult
thing to do because the spectrum of things that could trigger
off such an action is very wide and I perhaps should not t:-.y
to conjecture on it. I do have my own personal views, but
these are matters which I think are best left to the policy
makers.
MR. SPIVAK: Admiral, in a speech you made when you were
head of the CIA, you said. this, and I quote: "I can assure
you that we deserve the confidence and support of the public."
Now can you tell us just why?
ADMIRAL RABORT.7: Well, I certainly can. Going back to
President Truman, President Eisenhower, President Kennedy
and President Johnson, all have expressed their thoughts on
the Central Intelligence Agency as an extremely essential
part of the United States government. Now having been at
the head of the Central Intelligency Agency and as Director
of Central Intelligence, which includes responsibility for
the coordination of the rest of the intelligence activities
of the United States government, I can say proudly -- and :C
am not a Johhny.-Come-Lately around Washington --- that the
Agency deserves the unbounded admiration, the respect and
support of the United States citizens everywhere and of
the Free World everywhere. I have greatest admiration for
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them. The breadth and depth of competence, the integrity,
the loyalty, the willingness to serve the government under
adverse conditions sometimes and under criticism is something
that I thought perhaps was the sole property of the military.
MR. SPIVAK: Well, Admiral, we did pretty well in this
country without a CIA, which was set up in 1947. What do you
think would happen if the CIA were abolished?
ADMIRAL RAI3ORN: May I suggest, sir, that your statement
is not correct. Before Pearl Harbor there was no CIA. We
had a Pearl Harbor. And I think if there is a motto of
CIA, it is "There will never be another Pearl Harbor," and
Pearl Harbor caused this country to go to a Central Intelligence,
r i
Agency type of intelligence work.
MR. SPIVAK: You think with a half hour warning time that
we have the CIA is sufficiently informed on countries that have
missiles so that there can not be a surprise attack against
this country again?
ADMIRAL RABORN: I would say you are far better off with
it than without it.
MR. FRANKEL: I would like to touch on the clandestine part
of your activity - I think I am not going to get very far
if I ask you to discuss it in detail, but CIA activities in
this area over the years have raised some questions almost of
a philosophical nature and I think from what little I know
about the Agency it isn't always necessarily the Agency that
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has to answer, it is the President of the United States himself
who does. But being a part of that machinery, what are your
thoughts on just how far we Americans really ought to go in
this world in terms of meddling in other people's business"
in terms of throwing money into elections, into helping the
people we like and resisting the people we don't like,
some of which at least crudely stated might resemble some
of the activities of our Communist opponents. But we of
course think we are doing it for better purposes. But how
far do you think we ought to go?
ADMIRAL RABORN: Mr. Frankel, I think it is the thrust
of the entire United States government, through its diplomacy
and through its U. S. aid programs m d the security apparatuses
to safeguard first the security of the United States and assist
in the safeguarding of the Free World, and to promote our way
of life, vis-a-vis the active communist movement
Vo undermine the free institutions. I think we should go
far enough to win, and this includes military action, and
unfortunately sometimes it comes. You have to say, do we let
them rule the world or are we going to stand up for what
we know is a better way of life?
MR,. FRANKED: It is usually that question: Is a Communist
going to profit from th,i..s fellow winning an election or this
government coming to power or this government falling? That sho
be the decisive point?
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ADMIRAL R 3ORN: I wouldn't like to get too specific, but
MR.. STEELE: Admiral, is has been said that a very small
percentage of your activity and energy is devoted to so-ca-.'Jed
clandestine or covert activity, is that correct?
I think the main thrust of the philosophy of the United
States government is what I was trying to speak to and
the CIA is just a part of that,
ADMIRAL RABORN: Only a very small fraction of the entire
effort of the Central Intp-lligence Agency has to do with
clandestine activities, Mr. Steele.
MR. STELE . Admiral, many people don't understand what
a national intelligence estimate is. Can you tell us in a
very few words what it is and how it is made?
ADMIRAL RABOPN: Yes, sir, I will try. The national
intelligence estimate is the general views of the entire
intelligence apparatus of the United States which includes of
course the Central Intelligence Agency, the Intelligence
Department of the Department of State, the National Security
the Defense Intelligence Agen~.v
Agency,/the FBI, and the Atomic Energy commission. They are
formulated in weekly meetings in which these are put out in
f ntr
I I formal pamphlets and signea by the D i sec o o
d in there are
t
i
i
e
n
s pr
Intelligence. Exceptions from what
also freely entered so that the reader can have the benefit
of both points of view on a particular qc,1At,,
M'P STEELE: is it for the President of the United States?
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ADMIRAL RABORN: It is for the President and for the
members of the Administration who have need for them.
MR. STEELE: And as such that is used in the making of
foreign policy?
ADMIRAL RABORN: As such they are part of the information
that goes into whatever actions are taken.
MR. GORALSKI: Can you tell us if any changes were imple-
mented at CIA as a result of the Special Committee that
was appointed by President Kennedy?
ADMIRAL RA.BORN : Yes, I think so. It has been an extremel
efficient and effective Committee, Mr. Goraiski. In my view
it has been most helpful. They give us an objective point
of view from really a distinguished panel.
MR. GORALSKI: But there were obvious changes that did take
place within the organization as a result?
ADMIRAL, RABORN: And continually so. we are trying to
improve always.
MR. GORALSKI: YOU couldn't tell us what some of those
areas are?
ADMIRAL RABORN: No, not without getting into security
matters.
MR. SPIVAK: Admiral, it was reported that you refused
to tell the Foreign Relations Committee whether the CIA ever
used the Fuibright Scholarship Program as a cover for your
agents. Why did you hesitate to say you didn't, if you didn't?
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ADMIRAL RABORN: Well, this came at the end of a series
of questions which had to do with sources and me:t'-hods which,
of course, were quite private, and I did answer it, althoucrh
I understand it didn't get into the --- this is one exception
I made because of the distinguished Chairman of the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee, Chairman kuibright. I did answer
it, but there were four of five other people talking at the
same time and I understand it didn't get into the record.
I said categorically No.
MR. ; h?oGGS: Thank you, Admiral Raborn, for being with
11 us today on MEET THE PRESS.
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